Adjustments to Circle-type Job Abilities

[Camate]

We are currently planning adjustments to the effect duration and recast timers of circle-type job abilities (Holy Circle/Arcane Circle/Ancient Circle/Warding Circle) as well as Sepulcher/Arcane Crest/Dragon Breaker so that they can be used more frequently.

Below are 2 ideas we are looking into:

1. Effect duration 1 min. / Recast time 3 min.
2. Effect duration 3 min. / Recast time 5 min.


For idea #1, while the effect duration is not changed, the abilities can be used quite frequently.
For idea #2, while the effect duration becomes longer, if the effect is dispelled or via other means, you will have to wait longer than idea #1.

Please let us know your feedback on these two ideas.

[Luvbunny]

LOL - I completely agree with you - or if they plan to adjust this, make duration 2 mnts and recast after 3 mnts and make the effect actually useful and works. Stop doing things halfway - go all the way and make something amazing!

[Nynja]

I think the circles are underused cuz ppl forget about them...
Offhand, i think circle buff is something like a straight 15% dmg increase while its up?

[Spiritreaver]

We are currently planning adjustments to the effect duration and recast timers of circle-type job abilities (Holy Circle/Arcane Circle/Ancient Circle/Warding Circle) as well as Sepulcher/Arcane Crest/Dragon Breaker so that they can be used more frequently.

Below are 2 ideas we are looking into:

1. Effect duration 1 min. / Recast time 3 min.
2. Effect duration 3 min. / Recast time 5 min.


For idea #1, while the effect duration is not changed, the abilities can be used quite frequently.
For idea #2, while the effect duration becomes longer, if the effect is dispelled or via other means, you will have to wait longer than idea #1.

Please let us know your feedback on these two ideas.

Thanks for the info here Camate.

As to the ideas themselves, i for one would be fine with either way the devs end up going. I would suggest that the potency of the abilities be up'd in general.

When i say boost i'm more speaking to the intimidation part of the effect. I know they can proc at a decent rate at times, but really feel that the 'edge' given to facing off against these opponents should be much more noticeable.

Anyways that's my 2 cents on it.

[darkhorror]

Yeah that is correct. Will this change work on Killer Instinct which is also a circle effect that at 5/5 is 1 minute duration and 5 minute recast? Out of those options I would say 3/5, the extra duration is going to be more useful in most situations rather than 1/3.

[Kimble]

I think the circles are underused cuz ppl forget about them...
Offhand, i think circle buff is something like a straight 15% dmg increase while its up?

They are good buffs, just highly situational.

[Muras]

When taking into account gear that increases the duration of these effects, the first option is 1:30 and the second is 3:30. First option lets us have the effect up 50% of the time while the 2nd lets us have it up 70% of the time. I'd rather have the 2nd option so that I get the most bang out of it for the few times it's actually useful, given how situational it is.

[Ophannus]

Idea 2 is better. It lasts longer and the player spends less time using JA's over time which slows down their damage. It doesn't really get dispelled much unless the player dies

[Insaniac]

NUMBA TWO~

[Coldbrand]

Idea #2 and please link their recasts so we can have more JAs.

[CrAZYVIC]

I vote for the Number 2

[HimuraKenshyn]

#2 plz 3 - 5 thanks

[Alhanelem]

Although idea 1 does give more flexibility to usage timing, you get more effect overall with idea 2, and as someone else pointed out, although the impact in this case would be small, using JAs less often means less interruption to melee attacks.


Idea #2 and please link their recasts so we can have more JAs. Actually I'd rather just see the two abilities merged.

[SpankWustler]

As a man with a very odd fetish once said, I prefer number two!

They're already situational abilities, so being more affected by death and dispel wouldn't make them that much more situational. It's pretty rare to encounter something that is both the right type of monster AND very frequently uses Dispel.

The only advantage I can think of for number one is that you could use Sepulcher and the like on a higher number of weak enemies. Their defense-oriented effects are much more useful on harder enemies, however, so it doesn't seem like much of a plus.

[Zubis]

Maybe start a poll?

My preference is #2 - there's not much of a difference between 3 and 5 minutes.

[Arcon]

# 2

[Phafi]

NUMBAH TWO

[Zerich]

item # 2 is more attuned to my liking.
thank you for this pleasant news Camate <3

[Greatguardian]

Number 2.

Option 2 allows 2 Drgs/Sams/Plds/whatever to fulltime the effect for their party.

[Raka]

We are currently planning adjustments to the effect duration and recast timers of circle-type job abilities (Holy Circle/Arcane Circle/Ancient Circle/Warding Circle) as well as Sepulcher/Arcane Crest/Dragon Breaker so that they can be used more frequently.

Below are 2 ideas we are looking into:

1. Effect duration 1 min. / Recast time 3 min.
2. Effect duration 3 min. / Recast time 5 min.


For idea #1, while the effect duration is not changed, the abilities can be used quite frequently.
For idea #2, while the effect duration becomes longer, if the effect is dispelled or via other means, you will have to wait longer than idea #1.

Please let us know your feedback on these two ideas.

I vote for Option 2.

[ThaiChi]

I like #2 as well

[Yugl]

Plan 2 for Circles and Plan 1 for the debuffs. The reason is that it would make the buffs similar to Berserk type abilities and the debuffs need a shorter recast since defeating a mob removes the benefit of the debuff until the next recast.

[Glamdring]

number 1. if 2 were to go into place I would expect a steady diet of new mobs in end-game with dispel abilities; being able to put it back up faster after dispel would be more helpful. As to JA use lowering damage, if it increases your kill time from 10 to 12 seconds on a mob... who cares?

[Raucent]

while the enhanced duration is a nice idea the main problem with the circle abilities is that they are very minimal gains, the current mindset of the game is geared such that they will take raw dmg ability over utility i.e Xibalba they will not get a pld for holy circle/crest they will take a MNK for counter/perfect counter. or the Vunkerl Abyssea bomb nm they will take a SAM WAR or any high dmg over a DRKs arcane circle/crest.

[Zhronne]

Below are 2 ideas we are looking into:

1. Effect duration 1 min. / Recast time 3 min.
2. Effect duration 3 min. / Recast time 5 min.


For idea #1, while the effect duration is not changed, the abilities can be used quite frequently.
For idea #2, while the effect duration becomes longer, if the effect is dispelled or via other means, you will have to wait longer than idea #1.

I prefer idea #1, especially if the potency of the ability remains the same and you can make it longer with the already existing specific equipment (+30 seconds)

[Zhronne]

the main problem with the circle abilities is that they are very minimal gains
Ehr wut?
It gives +15% damage, +15% damage resistance and +15 killer effect.
How is that a "minimal gain"?
They got patched like 2 years ago to the current +15% bonus and it's awesome.

Now if you're telling me that you can only use them in very specific situations and with an insanely high recast time it's another story and I would agree with you, but when you CAN make use of them, they are absolutely awesome imho.

[Yugl]

Actually, the effect that benefits the majority (Plan 2) will disadvantage DRG. Every dragon has casual access to dispel moves without needing to cast:
Hydra: Trembling
Puk: Wind III
Wyverns: Dispelling Wind
Wyrm: Horrid Roar
Red Dragons: Voidsong

The only exception is the Yilbegan model dragon.

Still, going from 1/3 to 3/5 is an incredible boost in duration for when they don't use those moves.

[Helel]

Since #2 is winning by a long shot, I'm guessing we're gonna get #1 (BST jug vote)? That's unfortunate.

[Schwertzauberer]

#2 Seems most efficient as I tend to use these abilities most when soloing.

[davidwbean]

i vote number 2 XD

[Saiken253]

I vote #2~ I want to focus on swinging and stunning rather than a circle effect~

[Seriha]

Add another for the 2.

[Rohelius]

#2 please ^^

[Habiki]

I'm torn between option #1 and #2, for dragoon and Ancient Circle I'd vote #1 since most dragons have some sort of dispel.

For Paladins Holy Circle, Samurais Warding Circle and Dark Knights Arcane Circle I'd vote #2.

Overall I think #2 is the better option though longer duration makes it useful to have against more then one enemy, and with #2 you don't have to worry so much about the JA delay from using them, which would take away from overall dmg.

I vote for #2

[Kimble]

Man, all these 2 votes pretty much mean 1 is going to win :P

[Sharnak]

Actually if Dev. Team really willing to make circle type more useful. Imo the problem of this JA is it's not that often for many job that go fight with monster on the same type on JA. So even sometime ppl go fight the monster on the right type thy also forget about it.

My suggest is not just about timer, but make it more worth like it's give unique buff even it's not fight on the execlty monster type. Such as Holy Circle of pld may give En-light to all member or give Def boost for a period of circle still effect. so it's will be useful to any type of mob fight but will more be lot useful on undead.

Btw Vote 2, I hate to use JA every short period of time =w=

[Tamoa]

Option 2 please.

[Seriha]

Man, all these 2 votes pretty much mean 1 is going to win :P

I was thinking of the BST Jug debacle while making my post. Do I get a cookie? :3

[Gannon]

Option #2 gets my vote.

[Urteil]

Is this some kind of trick question?

Option 2.

[Babekeke]

Has anyone loked on Jp forums to see which one is going to win yet?

[SpankWustler]

Has anyone loked on Jp forums to see which one is going to win yet?

From the sound of it, 3/5 has already won. They might be doing some other stuff to the abilities, too. There's much many lots of large amounts of text to just communicate "the duration is much longer now".

Here's a link, for anyone who wants to attempt read Mocchi's post or maul it with Google Translate. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/19686-%E3%80%90%E3%83%8A%E6%9A%97%E7%8D%A3%E4%BE%8D%E7%AB%9C%E3%80%91%E3%82%B5%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AF%E3%83%AB%E7%B3%BB%E3%80%81%E3%83%96%E3%83%AC%E3%82%A4%E3%82%AF%E7%B3%BB%E3%82%A2%E3%83%93%E3%83%AA%E3%83%86%E3%82%A3?p=267048&viewfull=1#post267048)

[darkhorror]

From the sound of it, 3/5 has already won. They might be doing some other stuff to the abilities, too. There's much many lots of large amounts of text to just communicate "the duration is much longer now".

Here's a link, for anyone who wants to attempt read Mocchi's post or maul it with Google Translate. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/19686-%E3%80%90%E3%83%8A%E6%9A%97%E7%8D%A3%E4%BE%8D%E7%AB%9C%E3%80%91%E3%82%B5%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AF%E3%83%AB%E7%B3%BB%E3%80%81%E3%83%96%E3%83%AC%E3%82%A4%E3%82%AF%E7%B3%BB%E3%82%A2%E3%83%93%E3%83%AA%E3%83%86%E3%82%A3?p=267048&viewfull=1#post267048)


Thank you from what I gathered

3/5 is winning. I won't try to read google translate on part of it because sometimes it means the opposite of what I think it does, I hope we get the info later today.

Also has info on BST killer instinct, looks like they are planning to adjust it. As we know we are already getting merit point adjustments to job abilities where recast is the only change. Sounds like they are planning to change it from 1 duration 15 minute recast with each merit lowering recast by 2:30 at 5/5 merits giving us 1 duration 5 recast. Changing this too 3 duration 5 recast and each merit adding +2 killer effect.

Don't take this as fact till it's confirmed by someone who knows Japanese, or by SE.

[Babekeke]

Here is what Google translate thinks of Mocchi's speech...


Hi.

Based on feedback so far, "5-minute cooldown 3 minutes duration," advances the adjustment.
The target is the following abilities.

Night
Holy Circle / Sepuruka
Dark Knight
Al Caine Circle / Al Cain Crest
Samurai
Magic broken teeth yen / guardian of sesame
Dragoon
Ancient Circle / Dragon Breaker

※ In the last announcement is "broken blade of evil" was not listed, are included in the.


With this change, for each item corresponding to the ability of the benefits of point group 1 → 10 seconds to adjust to the reduced capacity value of 1 to 20 seconds.

The result, by maximizing the effectiveness of equipment and point advantage, "4 min 10 sec 3 min 30 sec cooldown duration" allows a state to be created. The validity of the effect also is thought to be as follows.



For the effect itself
For a particular monster races "wince occurs with probability 15%, 15% given amount of damage, -15% less damage taken," an effect that has been deemed valid.
Cry anymore! Was also found that the opinion, the extension of duration, please 様子見 will be a first in the form of short cooldown.

If the advantage for
In addition to the feedback effect of a weak, little monsters of interest (use fewer scenes) that there were comments.
But no matter how good the performance scene Nakattari use of the less because it does not make sense as, for example, adding the ability of these valid NM Legion now in public test server, secure the scene and We will prepare.

Remove the ability for
In addition, the frame has been recast timer limit, there are voices that wish to remove from the side or imminent.
You're may already understand, and I will explain once again advance the story would still have a mistaken assumption that deviated if the recast of the frame of up to 13 timers at this stage The story.
There are plans to allow more so in the future, the ability to delete just this reason, please do not you think.



In addition, the Beastmaster job ability "K. Instinct" For the benefit of a review point, we will do the following adjustments. I just started to study yet, likely to change, please check with the assumption that high.

Here:
1 min duration
Re-use hours, 15 minutes
2 minutes and 30 seconds less time to re-use in one capacity value

↓

Adjustment plan:
3 minutes duration
5 min cooldown
Effective value of 1 + 2 killer effects capability

I spent an hour searching in vain to find this post, so thanks for linking it, Spankwustler^^

[Ophannus]

-15% damage taken for 3 minutes is pretty win. Keep in mind we can increase the bonus by 30 seconds or so with AF1 pieces, so it'll really only be 90 seconds between circles.

[SpankWustler]

I spent an hour searching in vain to find this post, so thanks for linking it, Spankwustler^^

Glad I could help.

It was hidden in the Tactics > Damage Dealing section. I never would have found it either, except I just opened every single Japanese section's Dev Tracker and searched for the roman numeral five.

Since the English Tactics forums are used mainly for posting the worst possible courses of action in any or all given situations, the Japanese counterpart is not exactly the first place one would think to look.

[HimuraKenshyn]

#2 longer is better and that's what she says fo sure

[tyrantsyn]

Camate the Behemoth

[Quetzacoatl]

Camate the Behemoth

It's a sign. BRACE FOR IMPACT(Meteor)

[Babekeke]

Glad I could help.

It was hidden in the Tactics > Damage Dealing section. I never would have found it either, except I just opened every single Japanese section's Dev Tracker and searched for the roman numeral five.

Since the English Tactics forums are used mainly for posting the worst possible courses of action in any or all given situations, the Japanese counterpart is not exactly the first place one would think to look.

I was searching for posts with the poll symbol... turns out theirs isn't a poll ><

Edit: apparently neither is this thread o.0

[Camate]

Based on the comments in this thread and the other regions, the development team will be moving forward with adjustments to the below job abilities, making the effect duration 3 minutes and the recast time 5 minutes:



Paladin
Holy Circle/Sepulcher
Dark Knight
Arcane Circle/Arcane Crest
Samurai
Warding Circle/Hamanoha
Dragoon
Ancient Circle/Dragon Breaker


※Hamanoha was not listed in the previous post, but it will be included for this adjustment.

Along with this adjustment, the group 1 merit points that affect these abilities will each be shortened from 20 seconds to 10 seconds for each merit point added.

As a result, through merit points and equipment it will be possible to reach an effect duration of 3 minutes 30 seconds and a recast time of 4 minutes 10 seconds. Below are the development team’s thoughts on the adequacy of the job abilities’ effects.
　
•The effect itself
It was determined that the effect of gaining a 15% chance of activating intimidation, 15% damage boost, and a 15% reduction in damage taken versus specific families of monsters is effective. While we have received various opinions on the matter, we would first like to monitor the situation with the longer effect durations and shortened recast timers.
　
•Usage
In addition to comments stating that the effect is weak, we have also seen comments stating that the monsters these abilities apply to are scarce (not enough situations to be able to use them).
It is very true that no matter how good the stats are, if there aren’t situations to use it or not enough situations to use it, there is no point in having it. With that said, we will be properly preparing situations for them such as adding NMs to Legion that make these abilities effective and useful.
　
•Deletion of abilities
Additionally, we have seen some comments in regards to deleting these abilities since we are reaching/at the recast timer limit for some jobs.
I am sure you all already understand, but to explain once again to avoid any confusion going forward, currently the recast timer limit is 13. However, in the future we plan on increasing this, so please don’t think of this as a reason to delete abilities.

Also, in regards to beastmaster’s ability “Killer Instinct,” we are planning to revamp the merit points as outlined below. As we have just begun to look into this there is a high chance it might change.

Current:
Effect duration: 1 minute
Recast time: 15 minutes
Each merit point reduces the recast timer by 2 minutes 30 seconds
↓
Adjustment plan:
Effect duration: 3 minutes
Recast time: 5 minutes
Each merit point increases the Killer effect +2

[FrankReynolds]

•Deletion of abilities
Additionally, we have seen some comments in regards to deleting these abilities since we are reaching/at the recast timer limit for some jobs.
I am sure you all already understand, but to explain once again to avoid any confusion going forward, currently the recast timer limit is 13. However, in the future we plan on increasing this, so please don’t think of this as a reason to delete abilities.


How about temporarily removing some of the weaker abilities, in order to make room for more useful ones, then adding them back when there is room?

[Babekeke]

With that said, we will be properly preparing situations for them such as adding NMs to Legion that make these abilities effective and useful.

Demons shouldn't ever be a problem. So many SAMs and /SAM to keep warding circle up 100%.

It's not uncommon to keep 2 PLD in a party for particularly tough mobs, mobs with a hate reset or mobs with a 1-shot capability, so Holy Circle can be kept up 100%

might be interesting to see whether this prompts /DRG or /DRK for more jobs now though. /DRG with the new reduced jump timers might actually add something quite useful to many 2-handers, H2Hers or Dual-wielders as you can get a good chunk of TP per jump, and with extended range to avoid AOE moves too. I always wanted to mess around with THF/DRG actually, but without native DW it was never worth it... now however... :D

[Zirael]

[...]
Now would you please kindly update us with what you have in store for Red Mage and Summoner? and please no more updates for jobs that actually VERY GOOD as it is - or no more "barance BS" to these jobs that are good to begin with (Mnk and Warrior...).


It is very true that no matter how good the stats are, if there aren’t situations to use it or not enough situations to use it, there is no point in having it. With that said, we will be properly preparing situations for them such as adding NMs to Legion that make these abilities effective and useful.
Despoil *cough* Mug *cough* Steal
Also, seconding RDM. Voidwatch forces RDM to spread merits thin into useless junk (hello Blind II) and meriting +15 to wind magic accuracy when everyting is immune to Gravity is pointless etc etc

[Xilk]

Also, in regards to beastmaster’s ability “Killer Instinct,” we are planning to revamp the merit points as outlined below. As we have just begun to look into this there is a high chance it might change.

Current:
Effect duration: 1 minute
Recast time: 15 minutes
Each merit point reduces the recast timer by 2 minutes 30 seconds
↓
Adjustment plan:
Effect duration: 3 minutes
Recast time: 5 minutes
Each merit point increases the Killer effect +2

This is fantastic for BST!!

If the merit of each increases the kiiller effect +2 (instead of affecting duration or recast) Then how will the augmentation on Monster Helm +2 work? Will it still increase duration or increase killer effect from 2/merit to 4/merit?

It will certainly affect the benefit of a bst carrying around more jugs. Bst will get more use out of this change than other jobs (we fight stuff our circle affect works on alot more often... because our circle can change to most mobs we could fight). This could improve the desire to have a bst around. An extra +15% on many mobs or NM fight for the group. This would make killer instinct much more viable and demanded. Most don't merit it for the recast.

[SpankWustler]

It feels weird to find everything in a post about the developer's thoughts totally together and maybe even awesome. I'm a little worried that I'm going to walk outside and see horses riding humans.


Also, in regards to beastmaster’s ability “Killer Instinct,” we are planning to revamp the merit points as outlined below. As we have just begun to look into this there is a high chance it might change.

Current:
Effect duration: 1 minute
Recast time: 15 minutes
Each merit point reduces the recast timer by 2 minutes 30 seconds
↓
Adjustment plan:
Effect duration: 3 minutes
Recast time: 5 minutes
Each merit point increases the Killer effect +2

This, in particular, sounds great. Even if Killer Instinct needs to be 3/5 or 5/5 to reach it's current potency, it's still a huge improvement.

[Prothscar]

To go with these changes, might I suggest Killer effects granting a 5% damage and defense bonus against their appropriate monster families?

[Alhanelem]

How about temporarily removing some of the weaker abilities, in order to make room for more useful ones, then adding them back when there is room?
That would be silly. It would make more sense to just add the new abilities when they are able to. Why are you in such a hurry to get unknown undefined job abilities now instead of fixing core systems?

[Muras]

•Deletion of abilities
Additionally, we have seen some comments in regards to deleting these abilities since we are reaching/at the recast timer limit for some jobs.
I am sure you all already understand, but to explain once again to avoid any confusion going forward, currently the recast timer limit is 13. However, in the future we plan on increasing this, so please don’t think of this as a reason to delete abilities.

So if I understand this right, the limit for the amount of Job Abilities we can have on separate timers is 13? The reason I ask about this is because as DRK/SAM I got 15 Job Abilities all on their own timers. I just fired off 14 / 15 just now and much to my disappointment, the world wasn't divided by 0. Maybe the limit is 15? :P

Still, it is nice to have the devs trying to tell us what the specific limitations are. When they explain these things, it helps us better understand the stuff they gotta deal with.

[FrankReynolds]

That would be silly. It would make more sense to just add the new abilities when they are able to. Why are you in such a hurry to get unknown undefined job abilities now instead of fixing core systems?


Why would they not fix the core system at the same time?

[Arcon]

So if I understand this right, the limit for the amount of Job Abilities we can have on separate timers is 13? The reason I ask about this is because as DRK/SAM I got 15 Job Abilities all on their own timers. I just fired off 14 / 15 just now and much to my disappointment, the world wasn't divided by 0. Maybe the limit is 15? :P

12 for your main job and again 12 for your subjob, according to his post in another thread (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/19016-Dragoon-Updates!?p=261654&viewfull=1#post261654). 13 would be with two-hours. Of course this is just my interpretation, and I can't be 100% sure, but that makes most sense to me.

[Muras]

12 for your main job and again 12 for your subjob, according to his post in another thread (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/19016-Dragoon-Updates!?p=261654&viewfull=1#post261654). 13 would be with two-hours. Of course this is just my interpretation, and I can't be 100% sure, but that makes most sense to me.

Aha, you're right. I totally missed that post. Thanks for linking me to it.

[DarkBass]

I feel like the potency of circle job abilities are pretty nice. The AoE intimidation proc is nice. I'm up in the air about idea number 1 and 2, but im a fan of long lasting job abilities. Number 2 is the way to go most likely.