Solution to inventory that no one will like

[Godofgods]

We all have inventory issues, we all know that. But instead of focusing on more inventory space, lets try focusing on what is taking up so much space.

With the introduction of abyssea, the desire to lvl more jobs is more obvious then ever. Which mean that equipment is quickly on the rise. One thing that never relay made sense to me, even back when i first started, was have special WS sets to macro over to before WS'ing, then macroing back to fighting/tp set (or whatever else you happen to be using at the time) It just never made sense to change your armor mid fight, multiple times.

I had heard that in ff14 they tried to implement a system where you would not receive the effects of new equip for 30 or so seconds after you put them on, in order to avoid this gear swapping everyones become so accustomed to.

So why not implement that here of your able to? Help due away with the multi sets during combat. If nothing else, not needing so many equip sets will certainly free up some inventory room!

[Brolic]

i agree with you



no one will like this

[Economizer]

I had heard that in ff14 they tried to implement a system where you would not receive the effects of new equip for 30 or so seconds after you put them on, in order to avoid this gear swapping everyones become so accustomed to.

SE could easily implement this by using the same methods they have for PvP in FFXI, or just resetting TP like they do with weapons. Nobody would like it because half the gear in the game would become useless because gear has been designed for macro usage. Players who think that people using macros are all cheaters using third party tools or greedy in some way are sadly misinformed and need a reality check.

If we're really going to "fix" this, SE has to start by consolidating gear and making it at least a sidegrade to the combined best stats of the best gear available, since gear is currently balanced around macroing. Well that or they could give us more space...

For example, instead of giving White Mages the Iuvenalis Mittens (DEF:20 MP-15 STR+7 VIT+7 MND+7 Haste+5%) which are a downgrade from both the Healer's Gloves +1 (DEF:14 MP+15 STR+7 MND+7 Healing magic skill +15 Enmity-4) and the Blessed Mitts +1 (DEF:19 MP+18 MND+8 Haste+6% Enmity-4), the would have given us gloves that give better stats that would have made it at least a sidegrade (bare minimum DEF:19 MP+18 MND+8 STR+7 Healing Magic Skill +15 Haste+6% Emnity-4) or an upgrade (such as DEF:24 MP+25 MND+8 STR+8 VIT+8 Healing Magic Skill +22 Enmity-8 Haste+7%) while saving inventory space either way.

[FrankReynolds]

SE could easily implement this by using the same methods they have for PvP in FFXI, or just resetting TP like they do with weapons. Nobody would like it because half the gear in the game would become useless because gear has been designed for macro usage. Players who think that people using macros are all cheaters using third party tools or greedy in some way are sadly misinformed and need a reality check.


Yeah, pretty much. If they implemented a block on gear swaps, 90% of the current content would be broken due to mages being gimped, melee sucking ass, drops becoming worthless, etc.

Easiest thing they could do is add like 5 more gobbie bags. These porter moogles suck because they are not in your mog house (why does this even need to be a separate moogle?) and they organize gear in such a way that it requires you to look 10 different places (and have 10 slips) just to gear one friggin job. At least with sacks, you can hit 'auto-sort'. They really should come up with some method of combining gear so that you just get all the stats on one piece. Can't fit all the stats on one piece? Pick the weakest ones, remove them, and put them on the job naturally.

My favorite idea: 16 bags, all of which you can access through macros. Each one will only hold one specific item type ie. hands, feet, legs etc. You would call them like this: /headsack /equip head "versa helm". You would always have all your gear on you. Mog sack, Satchel etc, would only be used for consumables etc. Got over 80 head pieces? That is what the porter moogle is for (if you have 80+, surely you have a few that rarely see any use).

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Easiest thing they could do is add like 5 more gobbie bags. These porter moogles suck because they are not in your mog house (why does this even need to be a separate moogle?) and they organize gear in such a way that it requires you to look 10 different places (and have 10 slips) just to gear one friggin job. At least with sacks, you can hit 'auto-sort'. They really should come up with some method of combining gear so that you just get all the stats on one piece. Can't fit all the stats on one piece? Pick the weakest ones, remove them, and put them on the job naturally.

They should do like the Test Server and add the moogle to the MH.

[Ihnako]

@FrankReynolds
You can't access more than 80 items at once cause the game has to load the other 80 items from your other sack/satchel/storage/etc. seperatly and temporarily. So macroing different items from different storageareas would at least cost a huge ammount of time and server resources, traffic etc. cause of reload the whole inventory of that specific storagearea. And I speculate - as long as the game is designed and supported for the PS2 - you won't see a significant change.

But I still hope SE would change the slips to become keyitems.

[FrankReynolds]

@FrankReynolds
You can't access more than 80 items at once cause the game has to load the other 80 items from your other sack/satchel/storage/etc. seperatly and temporarily. So macroing different items from different storageareas would at least cost a huge ammount of time and server resources, traffic etc. cause of reload the whole inventory of that specific storagearea. And I speculate - as long as the game is designed and supported for the PS2 - you won't see a significant change.

But I still hope SE would change the slips to become keyitems.

Yeah, unfortunately they can't change slips to KIs because of how they are programmed. Best thing they could do with those slips, is make the moogle in our moghouses handle them instead of the porters. I just figured that since we were asking for storage options, I would shoot for the stars.

[Corwin]

@FrankReynolds
You can't access more than 80 items at once cause the game has to load the other 80 items from your other sack/satchel/storage/etc. seperatly and temporarily. So macroing different items from different storageareas would at least cost a huge ammount of time and server resources, traffic etc. cause of reload the whole inventory of that specific storagearea. And I speculate - as long as the game is designed and supported for the PS2 - you won't see a significant change.

But I still hope SE would change the slips to become keyitems.

You have proof of this?

[Arcon]

You have proof of this?

He doesn't, because it's wrong. A system like that could be implemented and it would work just as fast and efficient as now, however, it wouldn't be easy to implement and there'd be some things they'd need to consider (the benefits and pitfalls of it was discussed in this thread (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/15700-Gob-Sack)).

[Ihnako]

Why should I proofe you wrong when you allready prost that you don't have a clue.

#1 You only have 80 slots permanently loaded (your inventory)
#2 The additional 80 slots from your satchel/sack/mog safe/etc. are loaded temporarily

So in case you want to access anything other than your inventory you ask the server to transmit the items to your temp. inventory. So every additional temp. inventory will increase the serverload and now we scale - 1,000 player using 3 temp. inventories withing 1 second that would mean,
- implied that each item is only a dword (2 byte)
- each temp. inventory can contain 80 items (80 x 2 = 160)
- 3 temp inventories (160 x 3 = 480)
- 1,000 player (480 x 1,000 = 480,000)
So you would add 468 kb/s for only 1,000 player.

Now a more realistic scenario: 4,000 player, 4 temp. inventories = 2,560,000 byte/sec.

And now another problem - you have to unload/overwrite your temp.inventory cause you only can hold one additional temp. inventory (80 inventory + 80 temp. inventory).
So you have to load tem.inventory(a), unload/overwrite it with temp.inventory(b), aso. And that will take time (in relation to your overall system performance)

btw. in all cases I didn't included header, CRCs and what some people will describe as lag and packet loss aso. HAIL the INTERNET!

[FrankReynolds]

Why should I proofe you wrong when you allready prost that you don't have a clue.

#1 You only have 80 slots permanently loaded (your inventory)
#2 The additional 80 slots from your satchel/sack/mog safe/etc. are loaded temporarily

So in case you want to access anything other than your inventory you ask the server to transmit the items to your temp. inventory. So every additional temp. inventory will increase the serverload and now we scale - 1,000 player using 3 temp. inventories withing 1 second that would mean,
- implied that each item is only a dword (2 byte)
- each temp. inventory can contain 80 items (80 x 2 = 160)
- 3 temp inventories (160 x 3 = 480)
- 1,000 player (480 x 1,000 = 480,000)
So you would add 468 kb/s for only 1,000 player.

Now a more realistic scenario: 4,000 player, 4 temp. inventories = 2,560,000 byte/sec.

And now another problem - you have to unload/overwrite your temp.inventory cause you only can hold one additional temp. inventory (80 inventory + 80 temp. inventory).
So you have to load tem.inventory(a), unload/overwrite it with temp.inventory(b), aso. And that will take time (in relation to your overall system performance)

btw. in all cases I didn't included header, CRCs and what some people will describe as lag and packet loss aso. HAIL the INTERNET!


There is so much wrong with what you just wrote that I don't even know where to begin.

[Arcon]

There is so much wrong with what you just wrote that I don't even know where to begin.

I'll give it a shot.


#1 You only have 80 slots permanently loaded (your inventory)
#2 The additional 80 slots from your satchel/sack/mog safe/etc. are loaded temporarily

I honestly don't know if that's the case on the PS2, but it definitely isn't on the PC. On the PC your entire storage is stored locally, always. It's not loaded every time you access another inventory. That alone negates every single point you were trying to make. But let's keep going, for the sake of proving you have no idea.


So in case you want to access anything other than your inventory you ask the server to transmit the items to your temp. inventory.

Why would you need the entire inventory, and not just one item?


So every additional temp. inventory will increase the serverload and now we scale - 1,000 player using 3 temp. inventories withing 1 second that would mean,
- implied that each item is only a dword (2 byte)

Easily. You could even go less (14bit).


- each temp. inventory can contain 80 items (80 x 2 = 160)
- 3 temp inventories (160 x 3 = 480)

Why three, when you're only accessing one inventory?


- 1,000 player (480 x 1,000 = 480,000)
So you would add 468 kb/s for only 1,000 player.

That's still not much of you consider the capacity of today's servers (there's a reason why they could afford server merges).


Now a more realistic scenario: 4,000 player, 4 temp. inventories = 2,560,000 byte/sec.

4000? Remember, we're talking per server. When was the last time you've seen 4000 people on a server? Hell, even 1000 is unrealistic (at this time there's 1156 people on Leviathan), about half of which are afk.


And now another problem - you have to unload/overwrite your temp.inventory cause you only can hold one additional temp. inventory (80 inventory + 80 temp. inventory).
So you have to load tem.inventory(a), unload/overwrite it with temp.inventory(b), aso. And that will take time (in relation to your overall system performance)

No. It does nothing performance-wise client side. Loading/unloading 80 objects, no matter how inefficient it's implemented is not noticeable by any standards.


btw. in all cases I didn't included header, CRCs and what some people will describe as lag and packet loss aso. HAIL the INTERNET!

Header is minimal, CRC nonexistant, packet loss virtually nonexistant (and does nothing to performance anyway).

Now to the main point:
That's all irrelevant. You don't have to get an entire inventory, you don't even have to get a single item from the server. All you'd need to do is send the equip-string to the server (something you're doing already), only you add another two bits to specify where you'll determine it from (2 bits is enough to specify 4 storage locations, inventory, satchel, or another future location). Although even that wouldn't be needed, and it could just look the location up itself serverside (like it is now, only it doesn't only have to search the inventory, but two more locations). That, however, would disable specifying which item to choose, in case there's multiple items with the same name (see trial staves, although that issue is finally addressed with the highest upgrade form).

And the funny thing is, all of what I just said I already elaborated in that other thread I linked you to before. This entire wall of text wouldn't have been necessary if you could either read or understand. Sad to see you can do neither, but I already knew as much. Your streak for being wrong uninterrupted is ongoing.

Tl;dr stfu.

[Ihnako]

Check - 1,500 people online right now (04:11 a.m. JST) Within JST prime time you can add another 2k easily. And at weekend it's 3-4k all the time.

No, you can't go below a dword cause SE implemented everything within this range (valor gauntlets +2 = id 10696 or 29C8 or 0010 1001 1100 1000)

And we'r still talking about a multi platform game and as such you have to considder the limitations by PS2 and XBox360.

Btw. Did you tried to trade someone with your XBox at Port Jeuno lately? It's difficult even when PC players don't experience lag, those XBoxers do. And that's only a zone with 100-500 people while you only see 64 max.

PS: A CRC and header do exist. How good they are depends on what you want to do. You don't need to implement them but then you'll have to deal with misinformation or waiting on your information forever. LAG and packed loss is still part of the internet and also part of the game. Since the infrastructure is getting better and better it's less noticeable but there are still countries and states that have to deal with outdated connections such as the beloved modems in the early days or even worse.

PPS: When did you tried to claim Fafnir/Nidhogg the last? Remember that scenario is similar to what I described in the first place. Happy lagging!

PPPS: Sending strings to the server does mean that you exploit the server cause you permanently asks him to check if you have the item or not. (And I'm verry interested in hacking SEs servers cause this method will make it even easyer.)

[FrankReynolds]

Check - 1,500 people online right now (04:11 a.m. JST) Within JST prime time you can add another 2k easily. And at weekend it's 3-4k all the time.

No, you can't go below a dword cause SE implemented everything within this range (valor gauntlets +2 = id 10696 or 29C8 or 0010 1001 1100 1000)

And we'r still talking about a multi platform game and as such you have to considder the limitations by PS2 and XBox360.

Btw. Did you tried to trade someone with your XBox at Port Jeuno lately? It's difficult even when PC players don't experience lag, those XBoxers do. And that's only a zone with 100-500 people while you only see 64 max.

PS: A CRC and header do exist. How good they are depends on what you want to do. You don't need to implement them but then you'll have to deal with misinformation or waiting on your information forever. LAG and packed loss is still part of the internet and also part of the game. Since the infrastructure is getting better and better it's less noticeable but there are still countries and states that have to deal with outdated connections such as the beloved modems in the early days or even worse.

PPS: When did you tried to claim Fafnir/Nidhogg the last? Remember that scenario is similar to what I described in the first place. Happy lagging!

PPPS: Sending strings to the server does mean that you exploit the server cause you permanently asks him to check if you have the item or not. (And I'm verry interested in hacking SEs servers cause this method will make it even easyer.)

The server does not upload the entire inventory every time you hit a macro.

4000 people will never open their inventory, and shift items all at once.

A person need not know anything about programming to understand why.

[Ihnako]

Unfortunately we'r talking about FFXI and not SAP

[FrankReynolds]

Unfortunately we'r talking about FFXI and not SAP

It is unfortunate, Because if you were talking about SAP, then you would be on some other forum bothering someone else.

I can't speak for other servers, but on my server, there is 2,800 people online at peak. 50% of them are afk, and thus not calling any inventory.

Of the 1,400 that are actually playing, several are crafting, walking somewhere, doing a quest, checking the bazaars of the 1,400 AFK people etc.

The actual number of people making a gear swaps at any given time is minimal.

Of the few people hitting gear macros, a fair portion of them will be lazy people that only swap 3-4 pieces of gear at a time anyways meaning that they wont be calling anymore inventories than are currently available in game.

Last but not least, you have the complete whack jobs who still think that gear swaps are dumb / unnecessary.

Never mind the fact that at today's prices, you can build servers that will run all that complete with redundancy for a couple of grand, and any company that pedals online services to 1,000,000+ people every year should have absolutely no problems with bandwidth.

[Chriskara10]

Why not just raising the storage for gears in Mog House use only??? I running out of space!!!!
The other thing is why cant your moggle in the mog house, store the gear for you into automatically into a storage slip, bcz 90% of the time I dont even know what i can trade the moogle or what i traded him!!!

Also please make Storage access able from any Mog House and not just home nation, bcz that's so dumb!!

[Ihnako]

That's a good point. Why are we restricted to store things just in our home nation while the moogle is able to watch over our plants while we're far away.

Also the Mog Locker could be reviewed cause 60 is a bit odd. ;p

[Arcon]

Also the Mog Locker could be reviewed cause 60 is a bit odd. ;p

Care to elaborate?

And they already said (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12551-Moogles-Mog-houses-and-Storage?p=171004&viewfull=1#post171004) they wanted to make Storage accessible from other mog houses.

[SMD111]

Also the Mog Locker could be reviewed cause 60 is a bit odd. ;p

i look at this and say you must be on something

because the mog-locker has a cap of 80 not 60
if you need proof go here (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Mog_Locker)

[Ihnako]

Hihi... you got me.
Now I know were I could spend a chunk of the million ISP I gathered in the mid-days. (cause the old days where when people where satisfied with chain 5 and 4k/h)

[mattkoko]

gear swapping makes it more strategic. and not everyone swaps the same gear and such so it is different from everyone. that is what i like about it. gear swapping on certain spells and weapon skill is about the only thing left in ffxi that has to do with strategy. they have taken everything else out. if gear swapping gets taken away, ffxi wont even count as a role playing game anymore. it would be an mmoaa. for those that dont understand, aa=action adventure.

[Cream_Soda]

If you'd rather have inventory than ws gear, then don't gear your ws. Just don't complain when nobody wants you because of how much you suck.

[Arcon]

If you'd rather have inventory than ws gear, then don't gear your ws. Just don't complain when nobody wants you because of how much you suck.

No one wants that (aside from some noobs, but whatever). The point of this thread is, that if everyone would be forced to not swap gear, you could still the best if you didn't do it. And it's true it would eliminate a lot of gear.

Not saying I'd prefer that to the current game, just saying.

[Ihnako]

By the way "gear swap" isn't what an RPG is all about. The best RPGs doesn't allow you to swap your gear while fighting - that's something special in FFXI.

It's easy to say SE should prevent people from swaping gears - by loosing TP or interupting the started action for a decent ammount of time or just by precalculating the action with only the gear you wear the moment you started it.
But - that would also force them to rethink about what a good gear is. Actually they put some good gears in the game for those who don't want to swap gears and that's a good start. But most gear in the game is just situational.

The call for 24/7 items is comprehensible but only unter the above described conditions.
Otherwise you should carefully rethink what you want to gain by having soo much gear on your char.

[mattkoko]

i never said gear swapping is what makes an rpg. but it is a part of the strategy in this game. and this game is starting to lack most of it's strategy. parties dont have strategy anymore. it is just, kill as fast as possible. some of the NMs have strategy but most of them it is still just straight forward. sorry i was not that clear on that. i know gear swapping doesnt make a game an rpg. but it gives a lot of options and lots of ways to develop your character to make it a more strategic approach to battle in general. swapping in certain types of gear to bring out the best in certain spells and weapon skills is a great concept in my opinion. and as someone previously said. no one is saying you have to gear swap. but it is a big element to this game. and one of the last strategic aspects of the game as well

[Cream_Soda]

ff14 is that way.

They've introduced plenty of solutions to inventory in this game.

If you're still running out, you can't be the best at every job. Pick your favorites, or suck at them all.