[dev1034] Campaign

[Edyth]

Campaign has major issues.

Problem: Campaign Data Map has always been out-of-date bull****.
We need up-to-date campagin data. The Campaign map claims there's a campaign battle in Examplezone [S]. You go there. It was already over before you got there. You look at the campaign map. The sword icon is still displaying over Examplezone [S]. You trek to the Campaign NPC, who teleports you to your nation. You look at the map again. The sword icon is still displaying over Examplezone [S]. You run to the campaign arbiter for your nation, and look at the map to wait for new battles. By the way, the sword icon is still displaying over Examplezone [S]. Until like 5 minutes later.
Best Solution: I assume that totally revamping the campaign map to make it not suck would be difficult. Therefore, I propose NPCs for campaign who function like Horst's option to check Bastion status. These NPCs would display the list of campaign zones. You check the zone you're curious about, to see if the campaign map is bullshitting you again. The NPC tells you TWO things: whether there is even a campaign battle going on, and how long it has been going on. For example, "a battle has been raging in Grauberg [S] for 3 minutes (Earth time)."

Problem: Campaign Battles end prematurely.
We have no idea how long a battle has been raging, so any campaign veteran, perhaps even new recruits, knows how it feels to repeatedly show up to campaign battles that end before reaching the NPC.
Possible Solutions: Partially remedied by the NPC I proposed above. Knowing the elapsed time for battles would be useful for estimating whether we should even bother. Another possibility? Stop making the NPCs retreat when we're devastating the enemies, and stop making the enemies declare victory when they're losing horribly.

Problem: No skill gain in campaign, so might as well leech in Abyssea
Self-explanatory.
Solution: Let us skill up in campaign and watch the resurgence.

Problem: Northlands are ignored.
They were so fun when people did them.
Possible solutions: Make the Greater Amphiptere that camps the Xarcabard outpost get the **** out. Make the Greater Amphiptere that camps the Xarcabard fortress get the **** out. Stop the "10 Gargouilles will nuke with Dark Orb every 5 seconds" ridiculousness in Beaucedine.

Problem: Staleness.
Old zones, all the time.
Suggestions: probably less than 5% of players have campaigned in La Vaule, Oztroja, Beadeaux, Baileys, and Keep. Let us warp there. It'll feel almost like 5 entirely new areas to many players. Also, how about somehow implementing campaign battles into Ghoyu's Reverie, Everbloom Hollow, and Ruhotz Silvermines? Maybe make the battles work kind of like WoE in this ONE way: battles start when players zone in, and anyone joins at any time during the battle. Make it a Campaign Op if you want to lower congestion, but keep it an authentic campaign battle. And there'd always be NPCs that don't play hooky and enemies that don't stop to smell the daisies every 5 steps. Players want new areas, and giving us easier access to these zones would be fun. Ghoyu's Reverie is my personal favorite zone for atmosphere.

[blowfin]

Despite the fact that next to nobody cares about Campaign anymore and it's not likely to receive much attention, the idea with the NPC's providing the battle status is a good idea. However, I always found the best plan if you find yourself idle was to watch the battle logs you'll see in the cities for upcoming battles. Then go to the zone, go get a sandwich or take a dump (or both at the same time), ???, profit. Once you get rolling and into a flow there's not really much need for further information as it's easy enough to just bounce between battles.

Northlands was always a sore point with me, for the week or two that our server actually had access SL battle, I was about two ranks off being able to participate, and then away on a trip. Once I maxed out my rank, the server never again had access. In short, really badly designed content. Ending a mission, quest line or something similar should have enabled access to that BC, much like Apocalypse Nigh or Divine Might. Instead the BC has been out of reach to THE ENTIRE PLAYERBASE for 99% of it's lifespan.

Regarding campaign in Reverie, Everbloom and Ruhotz: it's not ever likely to happen as these zones are tied to MMM, WoTG missions, and Sandworm. Besides, those zones don't even have traditional entry and exit points.

[Economizer]

Problem: No skill gain in campaign, so might as well leech in Abyssea
Self-explanatory.
Solution: Let us skill up in campaign and watch the resurgence.

This and WoE too but at least WoE is more profitable. Not risking experience points loss as the reason to limit skill ups is a joke - I can skill up pretty risk free in Abyssea and even if I do get K.O. I can make back the experience in a minute or two. If the concern is AFK skill ups then just make it so campaign mobs like those notorious fortifications don't grant skill ups if you have over 200TP.

[Alhanelem]

The campaign map used to be up-to-the-minute, but it caused problems with the servers. so they changed it so it only uptates every several minutes.

However, the campaign messages about armies coming and going ARE accurate. If you see that the beastmen are dispatching enemies to an area, you can be sure a campaign battle is/will be starting there.

[hiko]

If the concern is AFK skill ups then just make it so campaign mobs like those notorious fortifications don't grant skill ups if you have over 200TP.
easy to by pass with windower (script that equip/unequip ranged item)
and can't go over lvl80(85?) skill on fortalice


The campaign map used to be up-to-the-minute, but it caused problems with the servers. so they changed it so it only uptates every several minutes.

However, the campaign messages about armies coming and going ARE accurate. If you see that the beastmen are dispatching enemies to an area, you can be sure a campaign battle is/will be starting there.
remove the auto update and add an event update (campaign start/end=>update map)

[Tamoa]

I started doing campaign again for one reason: AN for voiddust. I expect others do this aswell, since it is the most effective way of obtaining voiddust apart from buying them.



Therefore, I propose NPCs for campaign who function like Horst's option to check Bastion status. These NPCs would display the list of campaign zones. You check the zone you're curious about, to see if the campaign map is bullshitting you again. The NPC tells you TWO things: whether there is even a campaign battle going on, and how long it has been going on. For example, "a battle has been raging in Grauberg [S] for 3 minutes (Earth time)."

This would be a welcome addition. Whereas I usually do wait for the campaign message to say enemies have been dispatched, sometimes the wait can be long when I warp back into town from finishing a battle. Then I have no way of knowing how long the battles showing on the map have been going on, and it can take quite some time before I see the message of enemies being dispatched to a new area.



Problem: No skill gain in campaign, so might as well leech in Abyssea
Self-explanatory.
Solution: Let us skill up in campaign and watch the resurgence.

This, please SE. And in WoE too. I'm certain it would greatly help encouraging people to do both.

[Vold]

Despite the fact that next to nobody cares about Campaign anymore and it's not likely to receive much attention
Currently on my server, 18 zones are controlled by nations and 8 controlled by beastmen. You underestimate the population of CB and the direct and indirect rewards for doing it but I guess it's nothing new to see people say something is dead or dying if it doesn't have the same population numbers as when it launched.

Or it really is THAT dead on your server.

[blowfin]

Currently on my server, 18 zones are controlled by nations and 8 controlled by beastmen. You underestimate the population of CB and the direct and indirect rewards for doing it but I guess it's nothing new to see people say something is dead or dying if it doesn't have the same population numbers as when it launched.

Or it really is THAT dead on your server.

I haven't checked much recently to be perfectly honest, but I certainly didn't see numbers like that on Shiva when I was doing campaign right after the EXP boost. IMHO there are more important things for them to be addressing. It's certainly not something I'd like them to focus on if it impacts us getting brand new content, for example.

[Sparthos]

When Campaign is readjusted for level99 players and it becomes something more than beating on lvl60 mobs for points then perhaps SE will get around to making tweaks.

[Coldbrand]

Skill-ups.

[Kaisha]

Problem: Campaign Data Map has always been out-of-date bull****.

They tried to address that once. It ended up making the server lag worse for everyone.

Why the region map information updates at set intervals based on when you zoned into a location and rather not just refetch it from the server every time you open the map is beyond me.

[Economizer]

easy to by pass with windower (script that equip/unequip ranged item)

The game is not balanced around people who use third party tools that are officially not allowed last I checked, and the rest of us shouldn't be punished for that. Besides, if someone is just going to bot their skills there are other ways to do it aside from hoping SE allows skillups in Campaign Battle.

If this is really an issue to SE, they could just scan our computers for third party tools like any other MMO company and issue mass bans. Third party tools are not a reason to screw over everyone else.

[Ryce]

^ Skill-ups.

Also, get rid of the battle indicators on the /cmap. They're beyond inaccurate... they're a lie. Give us an NPC, as the OP suggested, and we'll be better off.

I really miss Campaign. I'd be happy to spend 75% of my in-game time working on unlocking Fiat Lux if I had a group of likeminded individuals on Odin. I got to do that fight twice during the week it was available on Ifrit (1/2) and got out-lotted on everything.

[Jandel]

Problem: Staleness.
Old zones, all the time.
Suggestions: probably less than 5% of players have campaigned in La Vaule, Oztroja, Beadeaux, Baileys, and Keep. Let us warp there. (...).

This. I just found La Vaule [S] (I say this zone as an example) with flag up. I teleport to Jugner with npc and walk my way to the zone. By the time I'm in half the npc who attack/defend are dead. Time to take campaign flag, buff and find mob... Campaign ended.
I don't say to give anyone teleport to beastmans' nest (I understood those zone are like our city zone for beastmen) but give teleport based on player's medal.
Like this, only veterans can assault those beastman stronghold.

Anyway, hope I manage to express myself correctly.

[Sonshou]

Perhaps the Dev team can add a Campaign Ops that allow player to lead a party/alliance to start a campaign battle against Beastman own area, and issue with NPC army to assist them in the Ops. Then the start time is under control of who ever starts the Op. It also create an oppertunity for LS event. It would also be good idea to allow other player not in the ops to join the battle midway like all other campaign battle. Only reward of such ops have to par with VW.

[Gaspee]

Campaign has major issues.

Problem: Northlands are ignored.
They were so fun when people did them.
Possible solutions: Make the Greater Amphiptere that camps the Xarcabard outpost get the **** out. Make the Greater Amphiptere that camps the Xarcabard fortress get the **** out. Stop the "10 Gargouilles will nuke with Dark Orb every 5 seconds" ridiculousness in Beaucedine.

This is one solution, but I also think another idea would help:

If I were a leader of a one of the three nations, and I had to send a division of troops to say, the Northlands, I wouldn't send a ragtag group. Since the Northlands are such a key strategic waypoint for the Allied Forces, attacking generals should have a muuuuch bigger infantry contingent at his/her disposal.

Additionally, the NPC generals should be HQ versions for Northlands incursions. If the individual nations have the ability to pick what general they have the most faith in, they should equip them appropriately to meet that expectation.

Just a thought.

[Concerned4FFxi]

Skill ups, higher level mobs, better rewards, more ancient currency, xp and allied notes for those whom are still ko at the end of battle but with a -25% penalty, auto-raise at the end of battle.

[Ryce]

Perhaps the Dev team can add a Campaign Ops that allow player to lead a party/alliance to start a campaign battle against Beastman own area, and issue with NPC army to assist them in the Ops. Then the start time is under control of who ever starts the Op. It also create an oppertunity for LS event. It would also be good idea to allow other player not in the ops to join the battle midway like all other campaign battle. Only reward of such ops have to par with VW.

That's the best idea I've heard yet for Campaign. I love it!

So, leave defending territories the way it is - random battle pop up at random times.

Offensive battles, however, are no longer random. They must be initiated by a player who is undertaking a Campaign Op. Once they talk to the Campaign NPC in the enemy-controlled zone, and choose to start the invasion, the battle begins (probably after a short lag time).

Expanding upon that, maybe the player who is starting the battle can spend Allied Notes to influence the chance of friendly NPCs joining the battle. Or better yet, any player with Allied Tags can pay Allied Notes to the Campaign NPC in the area to "Call for reinforcements", increasing the chance that NPCs will come to help.

That would instantly make Campaign an event that groups could plan and schedule for. Taking back the Northlands would only be a matter of time.

Awesome idea. I really hope the dev team considers this.

[Tile]

That's the best idea I've heard yet for Campaign. I love it!

So, leave defending territories the way it is - random battle pop up at random times.

Offensive battles, however, are no longer random. They must be initiated by a player who is undertaking a Campaign Op. Once they talk to the Campaign NPC in the enemy-controlled zone, and choose to start the invasion, the battle begins (probably after a short lag time).

Expanding upon that, maybe the player who is starting the battle can spend Allied Notes to influence the chance of friendly NPCs joining the battle. Or better yet, any player with Allied Tags can pay Allied Notes to the Campaign NPC in the area to "Call for reinforcements", increasing the chance that NPCs will come to help.

That would instantly make Campaign an event that groups could plan and schedule for. Taking back the Northlands would only be a matter of time.

Awesome idea. I really hope the dev team considers this.

This please. I dont like haven't to wait hours for one of the armies to attack the north land so I can Campaign there. If we could just talk to the NPC to start a Campaign Op and Either based on how well we are doing, How long we/ve lasted, or by spending AN one of the armies will come and provide Back up. Whether its set from our nation, we get to select who we are calling, or it could just be Any from the 3. Maybe go as far as having us call the Hydra unit for help.

[Eric]

If this is really an issue to SE, they could just scan our computers for third party tools like any other MMO company and issue mass bans. Third party tools are not a reason to screw over everyone else.

They actually used to do this, and they stopped due to privacy concerns. And as for third party tools not being a reason to screw everyone else, here's what I have to say to that: Your holier-than-thou attitude is not a reason to screw everyone else.

A large amount of people use Windower, and for some people, it's the only reason they continue playing, because despite SE's recent changes(which are welcome) to the UI, the game is still very annoying to play in some aspects. I would rather improve a crappy player's gear swaps with the help of spellcast, than have a good player waste their energy on making 3 separate macros just to swap gear for one spell.

Setting up a million macros shouldn't be the focus of the game. Instead, I think it should be learning how and when to use your spells and abilities.

[Krashport]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/18016-Campaign-Walk-of-Echoes.

[Edyth]

The thread title was changed... It was Campaign in the Butt, a play on a little kids' phrase, "pain in the butt," but I guess kindergarten idioms are too risque for this forum?

In other news, 28 likes. No posts disagreeing with what I said. And more likes than responses, meaning I hit the nail on the head. While I would like some major changes to AU content first, little things like skill ups and warps to the beastman strongholds shouldn't be that hard to implement into Campaign. Can we get a developer stance on those two aspects, if not the other suggestions?

[Kriegsgott]

The thread title was changed... It was Campaign in the Butt, a play on a little kids' phrase, "pain in the butt," but I guess kindergarten idioms are too risque for this forum?

In other news, 28 likes. No posts disagreeing with what I said. And more likes than responses, meaning I hit the nail on the head. While I would like some major changes to AU content first, little things like skill ups and warps to the beastman strongholds shouldn't be that hard to implement into Campaign. Can we get a developer stance on those two aspects, if not the other suggestions?

i can feel your pain my post was dead since 2 days too and he was from 2011....