[Dev 1054] voidstones

[abbazabba]

Void stones are becoming an extreme limiter to enjoying void watch. My void watch group does 12-24 fights a day. I personally do 8-12 fights. The entire group is buying void dust to do these. We aren't the only people buying stones with the price of void stones at the time of posting being an average of 30k across every server. My server is exactly on the average but it fluctuates higher or lower.

That's a minimum of 360000 gil or 24000 allied notes, imperial standing, or conquest points that needs to be replenished every day. Which could create an rmt situation. Ive already seen obvious rmt trains in campaign. Although I believe they were just leveling.

To fix this problem I would introduce key items similar to Abyssite of Celerity to increase the passive stone regeneration. Allow void dust to be bought with cruror at a small increase compared to the other three options. so that you can use your cruror from void watch to buy stones for the next round of fights. You can already do this by selling cells or chocobo blinkers but this removes the middle man. Let us change our Traverser stones into void stones.

I would also like it as a quality of life issue if you could allow us to turn more then 4 dusts into the officer. He can add the extra into your stockpile rather then your inventory.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I personally do 8-12 fights.I found your problem.

Realy you're going too often. If you do not have the income to support your habbit, you need to find some gil before you can get your fix.

[saevel]

The stones are a deliberate resource vacuum. SE put them there so to drain away time / gil from you and prevent you from getting through their little rat wheel to the cheese too fast.

[abbazabba]

They were actually put in as a camping mechanism. So you don't have all 3 rifts camped for the more popular vw. You also need to do that many to have an decent shot at getting an item. Stone need to come from more places or loot needs to be easier to attain.

[Nynja]

loot needs to be easier to attain.

winner winner chicken dinner

[Vadai]

As one of the leaders of that group I can't say how true this problem really is. Most of us have enough gil to support 24 Voiddusts a day, so the arguement of doing less because we don't have enough ressources is irrelevant.
Abyssea had new key items to reduce the stone timer introduced every update it had, and I really can't see why Voidwatch had exactly one of them and nothing since. Of course, could be to get us to play Campaign and all that again, but at the same time that is basically inviting RMT to come back to the game.

Considering one of the main goals in the past was to get them out of FFXI, the way Voidwatch stones / loot are working right now is bad. Some groups will have that number of Voidwatch fights a day, and will not change it because as I said before, they do not have the problem of no ressources. However, most people do have a time problem. They don't spend 24/7 on the game, most only play in the time events are taking place, and then maybe another hour, if that. This is not enough time to get enough Voiddust without buying the majority of them. As a result, they buy the Voiddust off the AH, which again results in massive amounts of them being sold per day. In other words, a chance RMT won't pass up.

Loot problem aside, the Voidstones are an essential problem in Voidwatch as well.

[Nynja]

Its called an artificial cockblock. Think of it as dynamis, where you can go once per day...but better. Atleast this way, if you dont go one day, you can go twice the next. If you miss dynamis, were you credited with an additional entry? No... Be glad there are lots of external sources to get voidstones.

Imagine if VW were like that...if your stones are maxed, too bad so sad.

[Rosalie]

To fix this problem I would introduce key items similar to Abyssite of Celerity to increase the passive stone regeneration.

Actually there's already the Vivid Periapt of Exploration, which functions exactly as the abyssite listed above.

[Ihnako]

I can't see your problem.
You'r addicted to a certain aspect of the game and QQ over it cause the droprate of the item you're longing for is verry low.
Hmm... old Dynamis had the same problem. You had to spend a huge ammount of gil for a chance to obtain what you want.
And nobody cared about it.

Now we have different events where we could get good items and places where we could farm the necessary items to do these events. So in case you'r too lazy to farm, that's not a problem the DEVs have to solve.
If you want to spend gil, it's your decission but don't blame the DEVs!

btw. the prices for Voiddust are droping right now.

PS: #2 Tsukino_Kaji said it verry clear. (^.^)b

[Vadai]

You are overlooking the main point of the original post.

The comparism with the old Dynamis and gil spent on that isn't exactly good, because not every group had people split the glass cost, but the leader paid it himself and got the currency in return. Others were there for their relic items, no gil involved aside from reraise items or medicines or whatever you had to bring. This glass gil also went to a goblin NPC, not to people or possible RMT selling Voiddust.

If you have time, or have the sole purpose of making gil, Voiddust is a reliable source of income right now. That's not the best way to make gil, and generally it's not a bad thing either as some people don't have many other ways of making gil at all(aside from the obvious turning cruor/ops points into gil). On the other hand though, this is pretty much what RMT were waiting for. I'm not going to say it's cause of this, but lately there have been many RMT trains leveling up again.

To say it's not the DEVs problem that we are spamming Voidwatch because of complete crap drop rates is stupid, and you know it is. Who are we to blame for those drop rates in your opinion, then? The players who do the event hoping to get a drop? I don't think so.

The drop system in Voidwatch is flawed in so many ways it would take forever to list all of them. The way Voidstones are working right now is inviting RMT to come back to the game, and they have partly returned already. Campaign, Besieged, events with Conquest Points all were not very important events in the past year or more, so they can't expect us to have stocked up on points for Dust either. Abyssea was clearly the main focus then. If they won't change the loot system in Voidwatch, why not simply add an option to purchase Voiddust with cruor? Make it more expensive than 2k or 3k, be it 5k or 10k it doesn't matter.
I'm fairly sure doing so would make less people buy Voiddust directly from the AH, and therefor make Voiddust more or less pointless to farm for gil as it will sell a lot slower than it does now. As a result, it will be less attractive for RMT as well, and they won't fully return / stop bothering again.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

You are overlooking the main point of the original post.You're missing the main point of the OP. They guy is an addict and he's complaining that he can't get his fix as much as he wants to.

[abbazabba]

As for me being "addicted" to vw. Not really 12-18 VW take 2-3 hours if your slow. There is not much else to do atm for me.

The dynamis analogy is flawed because as vadai said that cost was generally absorbed by selling currency. They also took steps to let you do more dynamis by lowering the reentry time to 24hr

There is only 1 periapht that reduces stone recharge all im asking for is one or two more to bring it inline with abyssea Or for You to be able to buy with cruror. I don't think its an unreasonable request. Neither is my quality of life request to allow us to turn in more then 4 dust. Just saves inventory space from having to carry around 12+ dust

[Nynja]

The drop system in Voidwatch is flawed in so many ways it would take forever to list all of them. The way Voidstones are working right now is inviting RMT to come back to the game, and they have partly returned already. Campaign, Besieged, events with Conquest Points all were not very important events in the past year or more, so they can't expect us to have stocked up on points for Dust either. Abyssea was clearly the main focus then. If they won't change the loot system in Voidwatch, why not simply add an option to purchase Voiddust with cruor? Make it more expensive than 2k or 3k, be it 5k or 10k it doesn't matter.
I'm fairly sure doing so would make less people buy Voiddust directly from the AH, and therefor make Voiddust more or less pointless to farm for gil as it will sell a lot slower than it does now. As a result, it will be less attractive for RMT as well, and they won't fully return / stop bothering again.

I dont think you can turn your old stones into voiddust...

as far as CP/AN/IS "being useless thus no one has any":
62kCP (ranger arrows...)/90kIS (and I burned a LOT 3boxing when Khroma was 500k), 949k AN on character 1
216kCP / 20k IS / 1.208M AN on one of my alts
85k CP / 11k IS / 160k AN on another alt

Thats like...1400 voiddusts.
You probably are a new breed of player who just basically got swept to 99 via abyssea, which explains why you wouldnt have any IS/CP/AN.

[abbazabba]

Vadai is anything but an abbysea burned player. Truthfully I am some what. I quit before abbyssea and recently came back. I still had over 300k is and 100k an. I used them all on dust. I assume vadai did the same.

[Vadai]

I dont think you can turn your old stones into voiddust...

as far as CP/AN/IS "being useless thus no one has any":
62kCP (ranger arrows...)/90kIS (and I burned a LOT 3boxing when Khroma was 500k), 949k AN on character 1
216kCP / 20k IS / 1.208M AN on one of my alts
85k CP / 11k IS / 160k AN on another alt

Thats like...1400 voiddusts.
You probably are a new breed of player who just basically got swept to 99 via abyssea, which explains why you wouldnt have any IS/CP/AN.

Yep, I joined the game 3 months ago and made 3 relics with Chocobo Blinkers, spammed through all missions and raped all my Voidstones in that time. Yeah no, I don't have that much time.

Why I don't have any ISP/AN/CP? Let me elaborate.

I'm not paying for more than one character, so leave your mules out. Still 62k CP, 90k IS, 949k AN for you left according to you. Why I don't have any CP and IS? It's simple, I spent everything on Voidstones, and have no desire to go back to anything that would get me those two right now.
Why I have no AN? I didn't level in Campaign at all, I did it when I had nothing better to do (when it came out). I do it from time to time now when nothing else is going on, cause I still hate it and have no desire to spend my freetime there to get stones. Everything I get there is going towards Voidstones, which isn't a lot as I'm not doing it regularly as you can imagine.

Not having any IS/CP/AN isn't a sign of a new player, it's a sign said player didn't like doing things they came from or spent everything already. Since your main numbers come from Campaign, think twice before talking again.

P.S.: If you call bullshit as to me not being a new player, you will find me on BG with my old name and the join date. This is the same character I've started with, try again.

[wish12oz]

So what you're saying is, you don't want to farm void dust, even though it's easy to do, and you want to take away the ability of other people to make money off you by farming void dust for you? I think we should leave it how it is, so the new people have something worth getting from their AN, CP and IS.

[Nynja]

and have no desire to go back to anything that would get me those two right now.

My wallet and bank account are empty, but I have no desire to do anything that would get me some money, please give me free money.

Thats pretty much what I read from that.


And why would not having any IS/CP/AN NOT be the sign of a new player?
Why does this player not have any CP? Because he doesnt go on /b/, and because they've never xped with signet.
Why does this player not have any IS? Because they've never xped with sanction and have never done any besieged.
Why does this player not have any AN? Because they've never done campaign.

Which means they probably GoV burned to 30, then got swept to 99 via abyssea which would explain

why not simply add an option to purchase Voiddust with cruor?
someone only having a lot of cruor.


P.S.: If you call bullshit as to me not being a new player, you will find me on BG with my old name and the join date. This is the same character I've started with, try again.

http://www.bluegartr.com/members/34567-Malacite
Your point?

[Vadai]

My wallet and bank account are empty, but I have no desire to do anything that would get me some money, please give me free money.

Thats pretty much what I read from that.


And why would not having any IS/CP/AN NOT be the sign of a new player?
Why does this player not have any CP? Because he doesnt go on /b/, and because they've never xped with signet.
Why does this player not have any IS? Because they've never xped with sanction and have never done any besieged.
Why does this player not have any AN? Because they've never done campaign.

Which means they probably GoV burned to 30, then got swept to 99 via abyssea which would explain

someone only having a lot of cruor.



http://www.bluegartr.com/members/34567-Malacite
Your point?

Pretty pathetic what you are trying to say. Yes, your 2m AN makes you a superior player, clearly. Malacite isn't exactly smart, I take you comparing him to me as an offense.

I don't pay for more accounts because I don't want to. What do I need 2 or 3 accounts for? Nothing. I don't need to 2 or 3box anything I'm doing, because in the time I play other people are online to do things with.
I've used up every single ISP and CP I've had, as many others have as well. I hate campaign, I did it to get my medals and to get Rose Strap, and the leftover AN has been used up already as well. Point? I could just as well come here and say you leveled the majority of your jobs in campaign, therefor you could be an older player but still one not knowing much of the game currently.

[abbazabba]

You guys are missing the point of my op. We can and do farm for our dust. We want the system changed anyways. Just because you put up with a bad system doesn't mean you shouldn't try to change it.

Please drop the whole you don't want to farm argument. You're doing nothing but derailing the thread.

[Seriha]

CP/IS/AN is a fairly limited resource. I can understand someone running out relatively easily if they're dumping it into VW supplies. The fact 2 are heavily tied to EXP gain in a given region, of which us leveling to 99 has diminished the potential of, doesn't help. Even at max rank in Campaign, you're looking at 4500 every 8 minutes or so if you tag swap. 31500 an hour may be possible as a result, but that doesn't really account for running between zones, either.

As someone with little interest in VW at its current state, seeing someone does 8+ runs a day kind of blows my mind. What doesn't blow my mind, however, is them munching through stones as a result. With everyone in their 18 man group getting 1 stone a day, that leaves 7 that must be acquired from elsewhere. If they all run to the AH, that means 126 dust must be sold by other players. As 18 people out of a potential pool of thousands, that can put quite the crunch on supply. It only gets worse when they do even more runs in a given day.

With the GoVing I've personally done, I've been lucky to walk away with a dust or two in a long session. I'm having a hard time imagining the dust supply from that could even sustain a server for long periods given Abyssea being the more popular EXP spot with other GoVers just mainly fishing for a rare drop if they're not PLing a mule or something.

Anyway, of the three currencies, I'd consider IS the rarest these days. There's very little reason to step into a ToAU area these days. Colibri were a meal ticket to IS if you were an in job back in the day, but even a 25k/hr merit party wasn't much IS, 2500 being the number at 1/10 EXP rate. Good luck convincing people to sync to 75 and relive the old days. CP at least has the benefit of GoV and the sub-30 push, but that only comes from the mobs and unlikely page payouts, so people could actually be hurting their CP gain. AN is the most easily gained how I outlined above, of which someone doing 8+ runs a day would also have to do at least an hour of Campaign at max rank to feed themselves. Possible if you've got 4+ hours a day to give, but I'm not sure everyone does.

Assuming prices remain 30k, converting AN to dust isn't a shabby gil source for those not looking to mess with Blinkers or worry about the nuances of Abyssea.

[Nynja]

Pretty pathetic what you are trying to say. Yes, your 2m AN makes you a superior player, clearly. Malacite isn't exactly smart, I take you comparing him to me as an offense.

I never said I'm a superior player cause I have a lot of AN? And I just linked Malacite's BG profile because you said "look at my join date on BG, I cant be a nub", which coincidentally coincides with that of Malacite's join date...



We want the system changed anyways. Just because you put up with a bad system doesn't mean you shouldn't try to change it.

Please drop the whole you don't want to farm argument. You're doing nothing but derailing the thread.
Then perhaps you should go after the real problem with VW: the absurdly low drop rates coupled with the fact that you cant designate drops and the same people can obtain multiple of the same r/e item. Not "omg I've run out of voidstones and I dont want to buy from the AH because:
-RMT may be exploiting it
-I'm too cheap to spend that much gil".

If you didnt have to go through 150 stones to get a body off Kaggen, you wouldnt need to go through 1500 stones ever.

[abbazabba]

Then perhaps you should go after the real problem with VW: the absurdly low drop rates coupled with the fact that you cant designate drops and the same people can obtain multiple of the same r/e item. Not "omg I've run out of voidstones and I dont want to buy from the AH because:
-RMT may be exploiting it
-I'm too cheap to spend that much gil".

If you didnt have to go through 150 stones to get a body off Kaggen, you wouldnt need to go through 1500 stones ever.

They already said they aren't going to change the drop system. If you read my post you will notice that I can easily afford to get dust. I still want it changed. Sounds like your bitter both of your mules have meikira and you don't. It's okay my mule does to.

[Transmit]

All my AN got dried up in ANNM's (and not touched WoTG zones since the release of Abyssea).
All my IS got dried up in ISNM's (and not leveled in a ToAU since 75)

I have enough CP left for 75~ stones. But gaining anymore CP won't be happening.

I say I do about an average of 4 VW fights a day, and I'm blowing through stones pretty damn quickly. Though I'm right now able to manage it, I feel the problem stems from the crap drop rates (0/100+ anyone?), AND the fact this is pretty much the only end game content worth doing right now, which means I have nothing to do but use up all my stones.

If SE intends to keep their focus purely on voidwatch I'd appreciate at least 2 more of the time reduction KI's so we can squeeze in two stones a day, which seems perfectly resonable.

[Nynja]

Sounds like your bitter both of your mules have meikira and you don't. It's okay my mule does to.

Nah, they dont have it...regardless does a system like that make sense?
The playerbase has offered plenty of possible solutions that keeps the random VW nature as is while not allowing to be exploitable (point system, ghost transferring of r/e item if the player allready has it), but the constant response is "NOP LALALALALALALALA". If they arent gonna budge from the drop system, what makes you think they'll budge from their other artificial cockblock (stone quantity)?

[abbazabba]

If SE intends to keep their focus purely on voidwatch I'd appreciate at least 2 more of the time reduction KI's so we can squeeze in two stones a day, which seems perfectly resonable.
This and adding another source of dust is all I'm asking for.




Nah, they dont have it...regardless does a system like that make sense?
The playerbase has offered plenty of possible solutions that keeps the random VW nature as is while not allowing to be exploitable (point system, ghost transferring of r/e item if the player allready has it), but the constant response is "NOP LALALALALALALALA". If they arent gonna budge from the drop system, what makes you think they'll budge from their other artificial cockblock (stone quantity)? Because stones were intended to stop you from sitting at kaggen for 2hours farming bodies not letting anyone else get any kaggens because two other groups are doing what you are doing. Not as a limit to how much void watch you can do in a day. That and it isn't as big of a change as a point system or ghost transfer of loot if you have it coding wise. Which is what it comes down to for them. They have what 5 devs doing all the work of a team of 15? they can only spend X time on Y project.

[Nynja]

Because stones were intended to stop you from sitting at kaggen for 2hours farming bodies not letting anyone else get any kaggens because two other groups are doing what you are doing. Not as a limit to how much void watch you can do in a day. That and it isn't as big of a change as a point system or ghost transfer of loot if you have it coding wise. Which is what it comes down to for them. They have what 5 devs doing all the work of a team of 15? they can only spend X time on Y project.

Honest question ...have you ever run into a situation where all 3 rifts were camped with lineups and spamfests(would be pretty dumb since you popping without cells)? The most you can do is 5 in a row, presuming you store up a stone (and this wouldnt be practical in this situation as you'd have to get stones, store a stone, run and grab another stone...valuable time lost). There concept of there being 3 groups with overflow on one NM at any given time is laughable at best.

[abbazabba]

Ive run into a situation where all 3 rifts had a group at them yes. If they didn't have to go get new stones it would of sucked. Which is why there are stones to let other people use the rifts in that situation. Not to limit how much people can do in a day.

[Nynja]

Ive run into a situation where all 3 rifts had a group at them yes. If they didn't have to go get new stones it would of sucked. Which is why there are stones to let other people use the rifts in that situation. Not to limit how much people can do in a day.

Was it on patch day (or within the next couple days) when everyone was doing the new content?

I mean, the worms and turtles in gustav are overcamped they need more there...cept that was one time when ppl were farming lvl cap stuff, now theres not a soul in sight.

[abbazabba]

No. It wasn't patch day when everyone is rushing new content those days don't count. Ive seen it on kaggen a few times and most recently on the flan. I'm sure its happened during jp prime time to or When I wasn't in the zone to witness it.

[Vadai]

I've personally seen it yesterday in Batallia, was in a shout group for Kaggen doing a Wivre for some people to have a 4th stone before starting. We ended up changing zones because of that.

[Manicora]

lol Void dust is the RMT's new Item to sell, With cells and Void dust selling like it is now, A single player can easily make 2mil a day Just doing AH selling of these items
I know I did it for a lil while till my LS started spamming VW doing 16-24 a day for a month solid I went from 300+ stones to almost none very fast. Happy hunting.

[Apelila]

Because stones were intended to stop you from sitting at kaggen for 2hours farming bodies not letting anyone else get any kaggens because two other groups are doing what you are doing. Not as a limit to how much void watch you can do in a day.

What says it can't do both?

[Nynja]

I'd like to point out that traverser stones were also intended to not let you sit in abyssea 24/7, to make you leave...that really worked as planned.


I'm asking around, asking the people who I always see shouting for VW...they've NEVER run into a situation where all 3 rifts are taken. I think you guys are full of shit, and your "Ive run into a situation where all 3 rifts had a group at them yes", seemingly happened once, and it probably was after patch day and you're trying to save face by lying about when it happened.

[Shadowsong]

Because stones were intended to stop you from sitting at kaggen for 2hours farming bodies not letting anyone else get any kaggens because two other groups are doing what you are doing. Not as a limit to how much void watch you can do in a day.

This is a pretty far stretch, and I don't think many people would agree with your assumption.
"Stones" is an old mechanic (tags, ANNM, ISNM, Traversers) used for an old purpose, to limit how fast we get equipment. NOT to stop monopolies of content. It doesn't even do what you wrongly assumed it does, as you literally CAN purchase enough stones to monopolize a rift.

Edit: Also, doing VW every single day I have never seen every rift in a zone occupied, even the days following release.

People will be more open to you if you leave your assumptions and guesses out of the discussion. People like discussion not being preached at

[Vadai]

The rift thing may be very limited to Valefor then, if you check the other thread on a specific forum you will find somoene else of Vale posting the same. However, comparing Voidstones with Traverser stones isn't correct. Firstly, we had more Celerity like Key items that reduced the cooldown timer for new stones. Secondly, Abyssea had a system that did allow us to stay in Abyssea for as long as we want, later on even making it possible for a solo person to do so. Voidstones are gone when you win a fight, there's no way you can change that or extend your time in Voidwatch in any way aside from buying Voiddust.

Voidwatch obviously has a much much lower drop rate than Abyssea on top of the flawed loot system, and again, they have already said they do not intend to change this. Why should we get more stones for an event we can farm time in with high drop rates(don't post your 2 seals in 30 mobs now, things can go bad in any event from time to time), and less for an event with completely stupid drop rates and a flawed loot system?

[Urteil]

As for me being "addicted" to vw. Not really 12-18 VW take 2-3 hours if your slow. There is not much else to do atm for me.

The dynamis analogy is flawed because as vadai said that cost was generally absorbed by selling currency. They also took steps to let you do more dynamis by lowering the reentry time to 24hr

There is only 1 periapht that reduces stone recharge all im asking for is one or two more to bring it inline with abyssea Or for You to be able to buy with cruror. I don't think its an unreasonable request. Neither is my quality of life request to allow us to turn in more then 4 dust. Just saves inventory space from having to carry around 12+ dust

Come PvP me on Phoenix - if you win I'll give you enough gil to get your fix for a very long time.

[Ihnako]

Voidwatch is a timesink. If you expect a good droprate why did you fought Fafnir/Nidhogg and hoped for a Riddl?

The old Dynamis was pure RMT cause you had to wait 3 days for reentering with, compared to todays results, low droprate on currency, AF2 and crafting materials. So people who build their Relics had to have a good source of income or the wallet to buy currency from other players.

And in the end - it's the playerbase that invites RMT.
Remember Carl Sandburg "Imagine it's war and nobody came."

[Vadai]

Voidwatch is a timesink. If you expect a good droprate why did you fought Fafnir/Nidhogg and hoped for a Riddl?
Ridill never had a bad drop rate, it was a matter of claiming the mob. Voidwatch is a timesink, yes, but comparing it to kings is stupid. Linkshells had a good program to help them claim, they did, unless others got lucky or had a similar one.


The old Dynamis was pure RMT cause you had to wait 3 days for reentering with, compared to todays results, low droprate on currency, AF2 and crafting materials. So people who build their Relics had to have a good source of income or the wallet to buy currency from other players.
How was the old Dynamis pure RMT because of the reenter time? Are you suggesting that RMT grouped together and farmed Dynamis when the glass cost existed? The reason people repeatedly did said Dynamis was either because of the low AF2 drop rates and thus having to repeat zones until the desired item dropped, or for currency. People who made relics before the change had to have gil to buy currency or lead a Dynamis group, so what? Remember some crafts were actually worth something, and selling items from HNM existed. I personally made one of mine that way, so building a relic really has nothing to do with RMT.


And in the end - it's the playerbase that invites RMT.
Remember Carl Sandburg "Imagine it's war and nobody came."
You are right - the playerbase should stop playing the game once they are out of Voidstones, because that way RMT can't sell dust. Just no. SE doesn't want RMT, then they should do something about the lack of stones/drops in the current main event of the game as it's flawed in every possible way.

[Ihnako]

Vadai you seems to want to misunderstood. Obviously some player have had the wallet to buy a relic or lead multiple runs.
But looking back - most good items where out of reach for causal players and still the prices had 10(!) digits.
So who bought that stuff? Players who farmed their stuff togehter? And who bought the stuff they sold?
RMT business is to sell ingame currency for real money. How they gain their money is simple.

#1 Farm stuff and sell it to NPCs
#2 Farm stuff and sell it to PCs
#3 Buy and resell stuff to increase the price (monopolizing)
#4 Buy stuff so people have to buy it from you for real money

And what changed compared to the Fafnir/Nidhoggsituation? Nothing! 18 people hoping for a good drop.
In Dragon's Aery there where hundreds of people hoping for claim and drop. So Fafnir/Nidhogg didn't droped that good as you said.

[Vadai]

But looking back - most good items where out of reach for causal players and still the prices had 10(!) digits.
10 digits? the max amount of gil you can hold has 9 digits, being 999,999,999. Relic prices were always in the low 9 digits, now it's dropping to 8. "Good" gear was nowhere near 9 digits, unless you count AV items from the few AVs done during the zerg time. The casual players as you call them weren't supposed to have relics and other gear, as those things took time to make. This changed now.


RMT business is to sell ingame currency for real money. How they gain their money is simple.
Exactly, selling Voiddust is a great income for them as a lot of people buy it on a daily basis. Why shouldn't they sell the gil they get from that?


And what changed compared to the Fafnir/Nidhoggsituation? Nothing! 18 people hoping for a good drop.
In Dragon's Aery there where hundreds of people hoping for claim and drop. So Fafnir/Nidhogg didn't droped that good as you said.
What changed? At Kings you were able to decide who gets which drop. Meaning, mages didn't get DD bodies 4 times before people who can use them did, and the other way around. You wouldn't give 4 E.Bodies to a WHM BLM BRD character before your DRK WAR even has one. Voidwatch system is flawed, and can't be compared to anything made in the past. You can't decide who gets what item, it's a random system.

[abbazabba]

You guys still don't fully grasp it. WE CAN AND DO AFFORD TO DO AS MUCH AS WE DO. We still want a flawed system changed for the better.

So please stop derailing the thread accusing us of not having gil or anything like it.

You could be right about Stones intending to be both an anti camping mechanism and a you can only do X a day. I'm going to have to disagree until SE says otherwise though.

JP prime time and the overlap of early morning na/euro and jp are when I've seen 3 rifts camped.

[Prothscar]

"You're addicted to one part of the game" etc. etc.

Because there's so much for a competent player to do aside from Voidwatch, right?

[abbazabba]

I still do dyna everyday and I help people in abyssea when they need it but exactly. VW is the only current endgame thing that really matters at the moment. Of course this will change when nyzul limbus salvage einherjar all get their revamp but for the moment VW is all we have.

[detlef]

This all goes back to the poor drop rates. This forces people to spam the same NMs over and over (and over). On top of that, as they introduce more NMs, people have to pick and choose what to fight because there are just so many NMs. All the while, we're only getting 1.5 stones a day. Truthfully, even if it were like Abyssea where we topped out at 3 new stones a day, that would not be enough. As VW is the only current content worth doing, SE has to be aware that a lot of players are doing a lot of VW.

There are too many issues with VW to list, but there are already many threads complaining about the other annoying aspects (drop rate and treasure distribution). I'm glad this thread is here to point out another glaring problem.

[Teraniku]

As VW is the only current content worth doing, SE has to be aware that a lot of players are doing a lot of VW.



There's your problem right there. You should rephrase your statement to, "All the crap I want drops from Voidwatch, so it's the content still worth doing for me." There's plenty to do (Neo-Dynamis, Abbysea, etc.) just the stuff you want drops from VW.

[abbazabba]

Truthfully, even if it were like Abyssea where we topped out at 3 new stones a day, that would not be enough.

Which is why I would like another source of dust as well. 5-6k cruor a dust sets it apart from the other three but still allows vw people to be self sufficient assuming they aren't using every type of cell.

I have the items i want from neodynamis except for a refresh grip for a mule. I still do it for currency to make relics. I have all the empyreans I want made. Tell me what to do where do I go to further my character. The people who act like VW isn't the only thing to do are the same people crying shoha is doing 9k on sand sweepers in altepa.

[detlef]

There's your problem right there. You should rephrase your statement to, "All the crap I want drops from Voidwatch, so it's the content still worth doing for me." There's plenty to do (Neo-Dynamis, Abbysea, etc.) just the stuff you want drops from VW.When you say there's plenty of stuff to do what do you mean? Are you referring to farming currency and +2 items? Are you referring to making empy weapons? Can you clarify?

[Cowardlybabooon]

RMT were really only annoying when they could out camp us and they created Gil with fishing which caused inflation. I would be more worried about an afk alliance of them doing cruor farming and npcing chocobo blinkers.

[abbazabba]

them tieing up large sums of gil is a problem to. It takes gil out of the system with out lowering the prices of items.

[wish12oz]

Ok seriously, just stop with the RMT ARE SELLING VOIDSTONES OMGZ.

There's much better ways to make gil that require less effort, and I assure you any RMT would be doing that stuff, not selling void dust. Void dust is soley being sold by people with tons of extra cp/an/is, not RMTs.

[Nynja]

the RMT witch hunt is back...
hey, if indeed RMT are selling all the voiddust, and you "dont want to support RMT", where did the RMT get the IS/AN/CP to buy all that voiddust with their abyssea burned characters? hmmmmmmm

[Xantavia]

As for me being "addicted" to vw. Not really 12-18 VW take 2-3 hours if your slow. There is not much else to do atm for me.
Doesn't sound right to me. If you are having a hard getting voidstones, the "not much else to do" could translate to farming gil/AN/CP/IS for additional stones.

[Zinato]

I wanted to add/review a few things to this topic.

#1 The implementation of FoV, GoV even years ago has stunted CP gain. The pages offer no CP for completion and are most effective on either Easy Prey (low CP:exp gain) or Incredibly Tough monsters. (back when people did 6 man parties)

#2 Also on CP, these require EXP to be earned to increase and drop at a 1/10 rate meaning 20k exp for one stone. For frame of reference leveling a job 1-99 is 2,051,349 experience excluding all FoV and GoV as well as the difficulty of finding things to kill past 75ish (remember you cant use FoV to help exp gain) that means 205,134 or 100 stones or anyone brave enough to level a job fully to 99 outside Abyssea with no help from pages of any kind. And just for fun its 235,550 exp to 49 so sub jobs earn 11 stones under perfect conditions.

#3 Now for IS, First of all with merit parties (assuming back then a player had the proper job to get into one) gone IS is limited to low man or event gain. Now besieged is only ~once a day and does not give more then 4k IS from what i recall. Also, like with CP the only other method of gain is though exp gain and at the same rate meaning 2 stones each day IF you catch besieged as it happens and the same gain as CP.

#4 AN now AN is arguably the best method to farm stones however, #1 its an event many people do not approve of (well that is not an argument Zinato! you say?) Yes, its a weak argument but, never the less. Why should people participate in a dead event they dislike to join something they wish to do? The other reason is, Campaign is nearly empty now meaning the only real effective way to do it is solo, as such it is not always possible to refresh tags due to an enemy fighting you. While some DD may take 3 minutes to dispatch an enemy some jobs are not so lucky BRD WHM BLM PLD and so on. This also means you have done WoTG far enough to lock medal at its maximum or are committed to enough regular campaign to keep it there. This is all to do a separate event. Do besieged to get tags for assault hmmm...

*Side note, right now at the price of 30k Gil per Voidstones are worth roughly 15k Cruor assuming you wish to make the conversion. The issue with this is it relies on other players stock and supply/demand (which I have noticed a lot of players do not quite understand) while Gil is a temporary solution it does not increase the servers overall supply and in addition encourages inflation. Bottom line is while Gil will work for now eventually these stones will end up in a similar state to Alexandrite where the main stock is used up and the replenishment is too low to sustain, remember each run of 18 people takes anywhere from 18-72 stones from the servers overall inventory. (one group run is my personal career savings of CP)

#5 Voidstone vs Traverser Stone now admittedly the Traverser stones were originally meant as limiters however, even in the very beginning 1 stone in 20 hours you could gather 4 and get ~120 minutes of Abyssea at once every 4th day. The difference? VW has absolutely no method of TE, even assuming players did not exploit that system for unlimited Abyssea time the fact that each stone is worth 30 minutes of anything a player wants + a few TE here and there makes the Traverse stones far superior. Right now VW is the center focus of the game, that is what the Devs want but all things considered 20 hours of waiting for a 4 minute fight is not really reasonable. Traverser stone 30 minutes+ any number of enemies vs Voidstone ~4 minutes and 1 enemy = same?

#6 Now to drop rates, personally I do not care if the drop rate is 1/100+ so long as the option to fight is available. What is not OK is 1 fight for 4 minutes of entertainment once a day for a 1% chance of a decent drop. The larger issue with this is most groups you join want that 1% drop and so do 4+ runs and usually only take members willing to fight 4 times. Basically, if you are low on stones you cant even get into the event for the 1 run you get each day.

#7 Last thing is lets assume a New player joins and does nothing but solo (so none of this Abyssea noob, GoV noob nonsense) they get to 99 and have 23 stones worth saved up what do they do now? All the players who have been here since pre-Abyssea ignore old stuff, so much so that people are not even willing to spend 30 minutes helping someone get a Promathia win. So why cant they enjoy VW and why should they be punished by this system?

Now, I wanted to add that while Cruor to Voidstone seems like a solution, I also pose the question of to what extent? Fact is many VW fights give 10K+ Cruor per kill on the flip side Abyssea save very specific conditions (IE Cruor farm party) has a lower rate (not saying hard to get just saying lower) At what ratio is it fair to buy a Voidstone with Cruor? Anything under ~14-16k would result in unlimited stones assuming you have a moderate store of Cruor. Even ~18-20k (this basically just equates to -2k Cruor per kill from your stock) would result in near unlimited access. Voidstones would need to cost 25-30k just to end up costing the players 10-15k from personal stock. Suppose 25-30k each is better then nothing.

I apologize for such a long post but, I had a lot to say and did not want to post multiple times.
The bottom line of why its an issue is this is a finite resource with a very limited life span, and a great need for it.

[Kaisha]

Make white !! proc grant a free stone, problem solved for people that keep a variety of jobs on hand.

[Afania]

Voidstone system is flawed. Some ppl do 40X NM a day, each NM only takes 2 min to kill, you can kill 20 NMs in a 2hr run. And one stone takes half a day to recharge.

That's just not baranced, no?

You can say just buy it, do campaign blah blah, but why we have to spend that much amount of time to do another event that we may not enjoy/want to just for another event? That just doesn't make sense...like how we need to do lolassault for salvage.

At least RvB only takes 5 min to do, and you'll get enough AP for a 2hr event. How long you gonna do campaign for 20 stones? You need to grind 40k AN for a 2hr event, that's just not reasonable.

Atm I have like 709 Abyssea stones, and have no where to use it, why not give an option to turn abyssea stones into voidstones? Not like we need that many Abyssea stones nowadays(unless you just bought abyssea expansion or something). Where is the barance?

Limited stones supply also makes it harder do VW with friends/LS....since some ppl just refuse to spend stones on NMs unless it's NM with priority item.

And why does being old/new player has anything to do with this? That just makes no sense. Flawed system is flawed, no matter you're new/old or w/e, you have right to give suggestions to SE to fix the system. Even if someone's new and no IS/CP/AN w/e, it doesn't change the fact that the stone doesn't charge enough for this spammable event. And shouldn't force them to do lolbesieged/lolToAU EXP/lolcampaign to enjoy the new event. Why do you need to be old with stockpile of CP/IS/AN to be allowed to enjoy the new event?

If one VW fight really last 30 min as SE planned, and ppl ended up only do 4 NM in a 2hr event, and do event 3 times a week, then this system may work. But that's just not how it work now, ppl do 20 NMs in 2hr, and stones are just not enough.

[Asymptotic]

People like Tsukino_Kaji are absolutely ludicrous. I really wonder how that guy has enough of a brain to use a computer, much function in FFXI.

Drop rates on items such as Coruscanti are 0.2% or less.

At a 0.2% drop rate, it takes 347 Qilins, or 5552 hours / 231 Days worth of stones to have a 50% shot at obtaining this single item.

And there are many other items with similar drop rates in Voidwatch.


Voidstones need to refresh at the worst once per 8 hours.

[Behemothx]

I still do dyna everyday and I help people in abyssea when they need it but exactly. VW is the only current endgame thing that really matters at the moment.


Void stones are becoming an extreme limiter to enjoying void watch. My void watch group does 12-24 fights a day. I personally do 8-12 fights.

lol, Dude! I would be VERY concerned if I were you, your significant other or your kids/family. Remember that notice just before you enter the game, about your job, your family, your friends?

[Zinato]

8-12 fights is under 120 minutes for a decent group. not a huge commitment. The other thing is if content cant appeal to casual and hardcore alike it is not very well done.

[Behemothx]

8-12 fights is under 120 minutes for a decent group. not a huge commitment. The other thing is if content cant appeal to casual and hardcore alike it is not very well done.

Still, If you're talking about every single day, even a 8 hour replenish rate wouldn't help that guy.


the RMT witch hunt is back...
hey, if indeed RMT are selling all the voiddust, and you "dont want to support RMT", where did the RMT get the IS/AN/CP to buy all that voiddust with their abyssea burned characters? hmmmmmmm

Hah, I wish all the RMTs would do some campaigning for AN and bring back zones to cities ;)

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Voidstones need to refresh at the worst once per 8 hours.It's not that type of content. If you want 8 hour stones, go back to abyssea. You should be thankful just for the fact that you can obtain more anytime you want. You can't pay someone 20k to go back into dynamis every 5 minutes.

[abbazabba]

the RMT witch hunt is back...
hey, if indeed RMT are selling all the voiddust, and you "dont want to support RMT", where did the RMT get the IS/AN/CP to buy all that voiddust with their abyssea burned characters? hmmmmmmm

Reread my very first post in this thread.

Dyna is 2hrs usually do it at night before bed. The vw I do takes 2ish hrs. OMG I PLAY FOUR HOURS HOW WILL I EVER SPEND TIME AT WORK OR WITH FAMILY I MUST LIVE IN MY PARENTS BASEMENT AND BE FAT I AM AFTER ALL A GALKA AND EVERYONE KNOWS THOSE MITHRA ARE HOT CHICKS. comparing rl situations is almost equal to godwin. I'll save you the trouble of godwining the thread. I suspect tanaka may be a nazi and vw is a psychological experiment thought up from a mind rivaling Dr mengele.

I'm done with this thread nynja and Tsukino_Kaji are just being contrarian you can tell from their posts in any thread they just disagree to disagree. I just hope they consider my feed back.

[Vadai]

lol, Dude! I would be VERY concerned if I were you, your significant other or your kids/family. Remember that notice just before you enter the game, about your job, your family, your friends?

lol, Dude! I'm sorry if you take longer to do Voidwatch, but there are groups who don't. Dynamis 2 hours, Voidwatch 2 hours, helping people 1 hour, some days no VW and more helping or not playing at all. 2+2+1=5. There are people who take that long to do 12 Voidwatch fights and call it a LS event, so I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

As for the Voidstones and "wouldn't help that guy", that's what the thread is about if you haven't noticed. So thanks for no input.

[Nynja]

Reread my very first post in this thread.

ok, I will



That's a minimum of 360000 gil or 24000 allied notes, imperial standing, or conquest points that needs to be replenished every day. Which could create an rmt situation. Ive already seen obvious rmt trains in campaign. Although I believe they were just leveling.


Hey look, RMT witch hunt in the very first post in this thread.

Even if it IS rmt related, instead of bitching and moaning, why not be pleased with the fact that, for the first time ever, RMT are actually contributing to something in their methods (providing a supply of voiddust so you addicts can get your fix of logs) instead of fking everyone over like they always do (rape the AH and drop prices on everything).

[Tsukino_Kaji]

are just being contrarian you can tell from their posts in any thread they just disagree to disagree. I just hope they consider my feed back.Is it realy so unbelievable that someone thinks differently?

[Ihnako]

Yes it is! /shocked
Didn't you read the ToS? If someone posts something you have to agree 1,000% (for non US citizens thousand percent). To disagree will bepunished with a ban of at least 7 days (earth time) and all you'r voidstones/tags/etc. will be garanted to the OP. So the OP can do more stuff without worrying to run out of voidstones/tags/etc..

So let's start threads where at least half brained people will disagree you!