Concerning Merit Points.

[Krashport]

I've just capped out every Job and their all fully merited, Through Groups 1 and 2, HP/MP, Attributes, Combat Skills, Magic Skills, Others, Merit Weapon skills at 5/5x3 are all done. On that note there isn't anything else that I can Merit.

Edit: Rereading those ideas I had and looking back at them now, I am not to happy with them. So therefore, I'm just going to leave it like this. GILS means INCREDIBLY SILLY

Ideas:
1~30 Merits =

I would like to Request: Could we trade in our Merit Points, Cause as it is now we're just sitting on 30/30, Thanks for taking the time to read.

[Mirabelle]

Or you could stop meriting once you are maxed out.

Seriously though, this isn't a bad idea. Just as slong as the rewards weren't overpoweringly good. Don't need people taking up xp slots in alliances who are just farming.

[Economizer]

Not the first thread about this, and probably not the last:

One thread:


just a idea but what about a option to have xp converted to curor conquest points, imperial standings, or allied notes for when someones xp and merit points are caped on a job. It's rather painfull to see all that xp go to waste. Even if the conversion was on a reduced scale form the xp to the others it would be good with the person choosing which they want to hav eit set to. Would also help with the cost of voidwatch alot..

A post in another thread:


I think that regardless of how many things SE gives us to merit (even if they don't cap categories that don't need caps) we'll still eventually cap them. I suggest that to remedy this, we should be able to convert Merits to something else. Some form of currency would be nice, even if it is gil, but Beastmen's Seals or something like that would work too. Or it could work with one of the newer things they are doing like points for the daily reward system.

A few ideas of things that merit points could be transferred into (ratios subject to SE's judgement, and some items could cost more then one merit):


Gil
Conquest Points
Imperial Standing
Allied Notes
Cruor
Beastmen's Seals / Kindred's Seals / Kindred's Crests / High Kindred's Crests
Dominion Notes
Daily Reward Points
Traverser Stones
Ancient Beast Coins
Ancient Currency
Alexandrite


Of course, some of these things might not be suitable, but these are just suggestions.

A post from another thread:


Not the first thread about this, and probably not the last:

[DrStrangelove]

I've just capped out every Job and their all fully merited through Groups 1 and 2, HP/MP, Attributes, Combat Skills, Magic Skills, Others, Merit Weapon skills at 5/5x3 are all done. On that note there isn't anymore I can use Merits for.

I would like to Request: Could we trade in merit Points for something.

Ideas:
30 Merits = 1 million Gils/Curor/Notes/Tabs/standings/conquest.




Corrected to the approximate current ratio:

30 Merits = 30,000 Curor/Notes/Tabs/standings/conquest.

What you did was suggest that people be given 33 times the current bonus for xp-ing. Unneccessary. People already are accumulating vast amounts of these with little to no outlet. Having 33x as much of what is already a surplus makes no sense.

Making XP transferable to gil is unnecessary. There are already mechanisms to do that in the game.



10 Merits = 1 Resistance to those elements stats under your Attack and Defense.


So, people could cap elemental resistance without gear changes or barfire/fira? Why not add -pdt and merit +haste as well? Why not +damage to weapons?

Elemental effects are integral to the game. It's drastically imbalanced to make changes like this that would enable people to build full time fool's drinks (or partial fool's drinks) on their character.


15 Merits = Race change, Name change.


Should be done, but for a fee and limited (once per character? once per year? idk, but not every hour which is what 15 merits takes.)



10 Merits = Temps items on the fly.

I assume you mean, we could get fools or fanatics where ever we are ("on the fly"). That's overpowered in many zones. Abyssea / GoV/ VW are not the rest of the game.

[Theytak]

STOP SAYING "Gils". GIL IS BOTH SINGULAR AND PLURAL, YOU DO NOT ADD AN "s" TO THE END TO MAKE IT PLURAL. SAYING GILS MAKES YOU SOUND INCREDIBLY SILLY AND IT DRIVES PEOPLE INSANE.

[Economizer]

The names of those threads could've fooled me.... and most are not on topic and all over the place.

All of those were on topic in their relevant threads.


These are just a thought, Thanks for taking the time to read. If you have any ideas on this matter Please list them.

And as per what you said there, they are relevant here. Every single one is an idea for converting merit points.

But if all you wanted to talk about was this...


Ideas:
30 Merits = 1 million Gils/Curor/Notes/Tabs/standings/conquest.
10 Merits = 1 Resistance to those elements stats under your Attack and Defense.
15 Merits = Race change, Name change.
10 Merits = Temps items on the fly.

...then you should have said so, but I would hope this isn't such a small minded thread.

If you really want feedback on the ideas on the original post, all the ideas on the original post were terrible, but that's part of the problem with suggesting specific numbers for things, a good portion of suggestions with them have no idea of game balance in any sense of the word.

Temps would be a very hard idea to implement in general, and most implementations, particularly the ones I'd imagine people suggesting, are completely horrible. At best I'd see people maybe getting stuff like eye drops, an antidote and some echo drops when they zone into an area. More then that would horribly throw off any balance that we have, and even that small amount would change a ton of things.

Race/name changes based on merits are a bad idea period. But I have a feel that you don't get why from this comment:


whats really the point in waiting that long?

Racial choices aren't something that are supposed to be changed at the drop of a hat, otherwise we might as well just have it be a piece of gear you can equip. Nor are names supposed to be something easy to change. There is a reason SE has a couple month cool-down on server changes in addition to the price, and it has little to do with the cost of implementation. Certain things are better left relatively static... in this case the reason has to do with reputation and identity, concepts I'm not sure I can easily explain to you at this time.

Elemental resistance boosts are already a merit for White Mage (and not meriting it is a bad idea), if you need it, get one of those, and if you are suggesting something outside that, I think it is a bad idea as well. The easiest way to increase your elemental resistance outside of a White Mage however, is to level up.

Converting it into other things like items are okay, but like I said, suggesting specific numbers will run into issues. Gil is another bad suggestion, as other posters have pointed out there are methods for converting the other things into those, and what they may or may not have pointed out, at much more favorable rates then 1:1.

I really hope you aren't closing your mind to actual suggestions about this, particularly the list I quoted earlier. I'll quote it again because it is still the most pertinent thing to this topic.


A few ideas of things that merit points could be transferred into (ratios subject to SE's judgement, and some items could cost more then one merit):


Gil
Conquest Points
Imperial Standing
Allied Notes
Cruor
Beastmen's Seals / Kindred's Seals / Kindred's Crests / High Kindred's Crests
Dominion Notes
Daily Reward Points
Traverser Stones
Ancient Beast Coins
Ancient Currency
Alexandrite


As an added thought, certain items on this list might even be capped per day to prevent farming via experience points being abused, such as the Daily Reward Points counting towards the cap of 10 per day that you can get for trading in items.

[Gouka]

There have been many responses in the vein of what you say you're looking for. All of these people have given you feedback on your ideas and pointed you in the direction of others who have posited them before you. Honestly, I really have no idea why you spent time re-capping your merits after you knew you had nowhere to put them, but you seem to be pretty upset about it.

[detlef]

Pretty sure NPCs in the game use gils.

Would be nice to be able to trade merit points for voiddust and cells.

[Mirabelle]

Edit:

Merits recapped themselves over time, I been unlocking and helping LS members with their Empy and other stuff.

Well admittedly then you weren't working for those limit points so why should you get something for them?
It's funny how things have changed. In the old days we'd have loved to get easy xp to recap our jobs for the next deathga in Dynamis. Now its so easy to get xp and so hard to lose it, people want something for this "extra" xp that accrues over time.

[Krashport]

Well admittedly then you weren't working for those limit points so why should you get something for them?
It's funny how things have changed. In the old days we'd have loved to get easy xp to recap our jobs for the next deathga in Dynamis. Now its so easy to get xp and so hard to lose it, people want something for this "extra" xp that accrues over time.

Great point!

It's not about not getting something for them, Kinda like back in the day the Content was slow going and it took longer to fully cap things, As to now things are much faster and sitting on 30 merits I guess is more of an eyesore then anything.

[Tamoa]

Pretty sure NPCs in the game use gils.

Would be nice to be able to trade merit points for voiddust and cells.

This. Especially voiddust.

[Seriha]

Well admittedly then you weren't working for those limit points so why should you get something for them?
It's funny how things have changed. In the old days we'd have loved to get easy xp to recap our jobs for the next deathga in Dynamis. Now its so easy to get xp and so hard to lose it, people want something for this "extra" xp that accrues over time.

Just because doing things in the old days was typically one-track, it doesn't make it right or even diminish the point of merits eventually becoming a wasted resource.

Overall, I believe we should be given the ability to fully merit everything. Yes, it's a temporary pause in the problem I just mentioned, but it would be a considerable time sink that people could actually find use with since it is a goal that doesn't hinge on random number generators like VW loot. After that, we are, of course, left with the question on what to do with excess merits.

Other currencies like CP/AN/IS are an option, but those also tend to a point of lacking worth due to old/insignificant rewards stocking their respective lists. Cruor might be the popular choice due NPCing blinkers, but I'm getting the vibe SE is going to eventually nerf that tactic to encourage players to use their cruor elsewhere, like upgrading Atmacites. So, to that end, I don't see a direct gil conversion from merits ever happening.

I could see the creation of NPCs who deal solely with merits, and they might even offer things like new equipment or current items like the Forgotten trade items or various Abyssea seals for reasonable costs. Like 1 for the former, 1 for +1 piece, then 3 for +2s. Merits could also become vouchers for specific magian trials, like 1 counting for 50 kills on a Kill X type or however many WS for those branches. Heavy Metal and other respective mass trades could also be acquired this way, and I'd even be okay with Dynamis currencies. Heaven forbid, should we ever see +3 Empyrean armor, they could also be upgraded this way.

Now, I'm sure some would unsurprisingly bitch and moan about alternative sources being added for various things, and some evil person somewhere might just AFK to leetness. For one, someone has to let them, and so some level of social interaction is involved here. In the event of people multi-boxing, well, they'd not always rival a good group, but it's not like they don't have advantages elsewhere.

But yes, I'd prefer all merits unlocked for upgrading, and from there SE could even add group 3 and other varieties like elemental resistances or base things like ATK or MACC. The main point is something can always be done with this resource everyone has access to.

[Michae]

15 Merits = Race change, Name change.

This will never happen and it shouldnt. It would allow all kinds of shady business. Did that person just nin my Epona Ring? Yep but now you will never see him again cause he changed his name so he could steal your Loki's or Twilight armor. This would do nothing but create career drop thieves among other things.

[Rezeak]

I like the idea of using merits to augment old gear that isn't gonna be overhauled in the future.

For example
Kings gear (Ridil,Pixie earring,Algol ect)
Pop NM gear (Rostrum pumps,Rutter Sabatons ect)
Lotto NM gear (Leaping/bounding boots,Peacock charm ect)
Storyline gear (Raja's ect)

[Kiroh]

I fully support being able to trade them on a 1/1 ratio (1 merit point per) for Alexandrite and single ancient currencies.

[darkhorror]

I like the idea of using merits to augment old gear that isn't gonna be overhauled in the future.

For example
Kings gear (Ridil,Pixie earring,Algol ect)
Pop NM gear (Rostrum pumps,Rutter Sabatons ect)
Lotto NM gear (Leaping/bounding boots,Peacock charm ect)
Storyline gear (Raja's ect)

This is what I was sort of thinking being cool, maybe augment other stuff also.

[Lukielucas]

This will never happen and it shouldnt. It would allow all kinds of shady business. Did that person just nin my Epona Ring? Yep but now you will never see him again cause he changed his name so he could steal your Loki's or Twilight armor. This would do nothing but create career drop thieves among other things.


Wrong, cos once you /blist someone (if you were using your commonsense) it will blist everything that's TIED to that account, cos you're actually /blisting the POL ID not the character name

[Hoshi]

Knowing SE they'd likely make a merit BC where you have a low chance at getting something decent. More logs and ores for everyone! But... even that would be better than what is currently happening to xp after you cap merits. ^^:;

[Michae]

Wrong, cos once you /blist someone (if you were using your commonsense) it will blist everything that's TIED to that account, cos you're actually /blisting the POL ID not the character name

Yep and you are going to be lead in every pt you are in where you get a drop. None of your friends will ever be lead, none of your link mates will ever be lead. And if they are its all good cause everyone you will ever be in a pt with will have to put the same ppl as you on thier blist.

Ive been in pts with ppl on my blist. Its not like blist is going to prevent you from being grouped with that person ever again.

[Tashan]

I would be strongly against this idea because it does not help the growing issue of unused and outdated content. It's the continuing trend of giving us the "fastbuck" option towards making progress in all content areas by only doing [/b] one.

To illustrate, I'd like to compare the World of Vana'diel at LV75 cap, to the World of Vana'diel today. At LV75, if you wanted to make your character(s) the best they can be at their job(s) you had to engage in practically every type of content.


Wanted the best earring in the game for a Dual-Wield job? - Zilart.
Wanted the best earring for TP and WS? - Limbus
Wanted the best mage body in the game? - Salvage
Wanted some respectable TP gear for Light armored jobs? - Campaign Battle (Allied Notes and Cobra Gear)
Wanted to be the best Paladin? - ToAU for Burtgang, Dynamis for Aegis
Wanted one of the best rings in the game? - CoP
Wanted some of the best gear in the game? - Land Kings, Sky, Sea
Wanted to beat the hardest challenge in the game? - Pandemonium Warden/Absolute Virtue.
Wanted to level up as fast as you can? Travel the world.
And honorable mentions for Besieged, Campaign (again), Nyzul Isle, and Assaults for being content fun to engage with even for the casual player.


This game use to be a journey. It use to be an accomplishment. It use to actually mean something to have reached a certain zone, to have finished a particular storyline, to be taking part in linkshell events.

I'm not looking to have a go at Abyssea, which I dearly love for reviving the game, but for us to get back that real sense of accomplishment and achievement we've gotta stop making everything "more convienient".

Hell, I even think making items no longer consumed when paralyzed wasn't a good idea. It was a small thing, yes. But that small lead to some of the best rages and WTF moments this game has.

Nowadays the only WTF moments I hear are from this forum.

I've purposely had to pace myself from doing too much since the last update, gone back to doing Campaign for merits and allied notes just so I can feel like I've earnt my dedication.

[Seriha]

I've purposely had to pace myself from doing too much since the last update, gone back to doing Campaign for merits and allied notes just so I can feel like I've earnt my dedication.

"Earning" something is relative. While you can list the expansions and other activities, highlighting a good item or two, someone more critical (and likely right) would point out that a given activity only having one or two good rewards is not a very well-planned event, especially the more bodies you begin to demand to participate for success.

The only "problem" with the "fast track" during the level 76-90 progression is that level 91+ has pretty much seen nothing new, only recycled and slightly revised systems. Unsurprisingly, they're also suffering from either lacking drops or poor drop rates. This might trick some people into thinking they've earned a given item when it finally shows up in their inventory, but it's also infuriated others into not even trying, or even outright quitting the game.

Meanwhile, those still uppity over Abyssea need to realize it wasn't meant to be endgame, only a stepping stone toward it. If you truly think tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of players at similar stages of character progression (namely everyone being able to level past 75 after years and years of being the 'final' cap) being able to advance at a decent rate is bad, imagine the bottleneck and drama on all NMs if you multiplied the needed effort by 10. And if you're someone who can play every day for 4+ hours a day, you also need to accept you're going to be a hard customer to please.

SE not putting money made by FFXI into FFXI first has always bothered me. There could be so much more content, so many more fixes, and so many new additions to jobs that it's just depressing to think we're running on a skeleton crew with no real big picture beyond Even More Voidwatch(tm)!

[Tashan]

"Earning" something is relative. While you can list the expansions and other activities, highlighting a good item or two, someone more critical (and likely right) would point out that a given activity only having one or two good rewards is not a very well-planned event, especially the more bodies you begin to demand to participate for success.

I only listed one item to not bog the post down. I could list the whole of Salvage, Sky, Sea, Limbus, Dynamis, Campaign etc drops if you want though.

But yes, the feeling of earning something is definently relative.


Meanwhile, those still uppity over Abyssea need to realize it wasn't meant to be endgame,

I don't think this was addressed to me but if it was:



I'm not looking to have a go at Abyssea, which I dearly love for reviving the game,

The point of this discussion is the idea you can take merit points and exchange them for progress in an area of the game. The reason why I've highlighted different areas of progress is to show not the rewards gained but the fact that in the past you had to reach out to different places of content in order to progress.

Building merit points is something which is still tied to Abyssea. By allowing yourself to exchange merit points for other forms of currency and progress means players will continue to put most of their attention towards less content.

[Malamasala]

I wouldn't mind transferring merit points to exp on other jobs. God knows how many times I've been asked to come job X, with capped exp to events that grant huge amounts of exp, that simply end up wasted because I had to adjust to strategy instead of what benefit myself.

If I could both help others and myself at once, the game would be much better. Not to mention I could also play the job I like the most, but level up a new job in the process.

Still got some issues with skillups though. So I guess buying skill for merit points would also be lovely.

[Seriha]

The point of this discussion is the idea you can take merit points and exchange them for progress in an area of the game. The reason why I've highlighted different areas of progress is to show not the rewards gained but the fact that in the past you had to reach out to different places of content in order to progress.

Building merit points is something which is still tied to Abyssea. By allowing yourself to exchange merit points for other forms of currency and progress means players will continue to put most of their attention towards less content.Multitasking isn't a crime. Old-FFXI was problematic because if you wanted to make gil, you likely weren't getting EXP or new gear. If you wanted to get EXP, you weren't getting money or equipment. If wanted to get equipment, you were probably losing EXP and money. Some might enjoy that cyclical style of grind, but when you consider the people capable of investing great amounts of time into the game, in turn, affect those who can not, you essentially risk alienating people.

I dare say FFXI "got away with it" back in the day because MMOs were still young and people largely didn't know better. The fact there are numerous game options out there now, some F2P, does not offer much potential profit if your focus is pandering to the absolutist hardcores. Others touched on it earlier, as have I, in saying that merits are basically another form of currency. No one is outright saying to stop adding new NMs or events in place of some kind of merit exchange, only for it to be a supplement. Options aren't bad. A bad event with good rewards is probably your average player's worst nightmare. If they had the choice to acquire said rewards without suffering through the event they dislike, that's a win, as far as I'm concerned. Ideally the event would be the faster route, but you just can't expect everyone to like everything the same way. I dislike Salvage, for example, as it punishes people for wanting to take larger groups, is not fun if you're low on cell priority list, and arbitrarily denying people use of the gear they've earned is further magnified by the two prior points in mind as it hardly became some equalizer that balanced the playing field between pros and scrubs. The former still tries to vehemently avoid the latter.

[Riggs]

i think it would be nice if you could merrit hp as much as you like, it would need to be high tho maybe 50k merrits for 1 hp with no cap, pretty sure this would interest allot of people

[Mavrick]

i think it would be nice if you could merrit hp as much as you like, it would need to be high tho maybe 50k merrits for 1 hp with no cap, pretty sure this would interest allot of people

Eventually everyone would be running around with 9999 HP on every job/race so that would be a pretty game breaking idea.

A simple solution would be to have Merit Items/Gear (preferably Rings) that function similarly to Exp Band. They provide a beneficial Effect to the player which cannot be dispelled by monster abilities. (like reraise).

Acquisition:
- Purchasable from NPC via Merit Points
- Cost 15-30 Merit Points
- Can Only have 1 "Merit Ring" in your possession at any given time.

Enchantment Effect:
- Type of effect varies with each individual ring.
- Enchantment Effect stays in effect even if ring is removed.
- Enchantment Effect cannot be dispelled by monsters (aka reraise). However effect will be lost upon death, level sync, or job change.
- Max Charges: 3~5
- Charge Recast: 60 seconds
- Effect Duration: 180 mins
- Stacks with other effects of similar properties (ie refresh, haste, regen)
- Enchantment Effect also affects Pets (with the exception of charmed monsters)
- Rings cannot be recharged. Once depleted, you must toss it and purchase another from NPC.

Few Examples

Merit Ring 1
Cost: 15 Merits
Level 95
Enchantment: HP+150, MP+150
Charges: 5 - Reuse: 60s - Duration: 180 mins

Merit Ring 2
Cost: 15 Merits
Level 95
Enchantment: Regen+3, Refresh+1
Charges: 5 - Reuse: 60s - Duration: 180 mins

Merit Ring 3
Cost: 15 Merits
Level 95
Enchantment: Attack+15, Accuracy+15
Charges: 5 - Reuse: 60s - Duration: 180 mins

Merit Ring 4
Cost: 15 Merits
Level 95
Enchantment: Haste+5% (Gear Haste)
Charges: 5 - Reuse: 60s - Duration: 180 mins

Merit Ring 5
Cost: 15 Merits
Level 95
Enchantment: Double Attack+3%
Charges: 5 - Reuse: 60s - Duration: 180 mins

Merit Ring 6
Cost: 15 Merits
Level 95
Enchantment: Enmity+10, Damage Taken-3%
Charges: 5 - Reuse: 60s - Duration: 180 mins


Merit Ring 7
Cost: 15 Merits
Level 95
Enchantment: TP Bonus+50
Charges: 5 - Reuse: 60s - Duration: 180 mins

[Alhanelem]

Gil not Gils

the proposed rewards are ridiculous. A strong party can get 30 merits in just over an hour. Yeah, let's let people change their name/race 48 times a day, or give them 24 million gil a day if they grind constantly. Great idea.

/sarcasm

If you're done with merits, just stop grinding merits- or keep those points handy in case you want to change your merits around.

[Greatguardian]

A strong party can get 30 merits in 40 minutes, really. I was rocking 450-500k/hr after the 99 Genkai when all the good players were out exp'ing.

Honestly, all I'd really ask for are Voidstones. Wanting to be able to make 2mil~ an hour between Merits and Cruor is just stupid.

[Alhanelem]

And changing merits for a single fight is a stupid solution to what should be something super easy. That's pushing it a bit, particularly factoring in the time before the chain is maxed when exp/hr is unavoidably lower, but the point is it doesnt take long

(Joined a random party killing acroliths in ulegurand and was over 300k/hr- considering just about everyone was fighting their own mobs rapidly, I couldn't see it getting a lot higher than that. There was virtually no AFKing, though the alliance wasn't always full)

[Aldersyde]

Still got some issues with skillups though. So I guess buying skill for merit points would also be lovely.

I really like this idea. I think one merit per skill level would be too generous but 3:1 or 5:1 would provide enough of a time sink SE intended the skill-up process to be but still be fair, especially for some of the skills which are just asinine to level (enhancing and summoning). Although they are fairly easy to level, it's still annoying. Standing in one spot outside of town spamming a macro over and over again is not really the reason I play games (plus with limited play time I really don't want to spend a night dedicated to doing it).

I know people will disagree but the idea is better than converting merits to gil or region specific currency, which would make it so people would never do events like besieged or campaign again.

[Vold]

I see no reason to convert our exp points into items and such when there is plenty of things we can still merit. Some of it is stuff people haven't even bothered to consider yet, like using the merit system to continue progressing job traits. Merits are used for progressing your character beyond it's capped level. It should never be used for anything else. It is the spirit of MMOs and there's a special spot reserved in hell for game developers who dare cross that line.

If we really want points to not go to waste then push for ultra mega grind merits that will take months and months and more months of Abyssea exp to finish. Other games have done it as their be all end all experience point grinding for end game characters to max their characters strength. Generally the end result is a tiny boost(but generally worth it) to your character so it's not really something you would grind out exp in Abyssea for hours everyday for weeks per merit you aim to finish, though you could.

I'm not sure how well that might work for FFXI but it's an idea towards character strength progression and not wealth progression.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I see no reason to convert our exp points into items and such when there is plenty of things we can still merit.Merits were maxed out again the day of the update.

[Dreamin]

Another alternative for all these merits: max one of the new WS to 5, then drop it to 0 and try a different one. Only way to know if you like these new WS or not is to actually try it yourself using your own gears in your own situations (whatever NM/event/things you'll be using it in).

Yes, eventually, you'll have cycled through all weapons and then you'll know which ones you really want to keep and you'll be at max capped merit again but at least there's some use in the meantime.

[Seriha]

Or you could hop on the test server or ask some people who do things similar to you with the WS you don't have or might be curious about. While first-hand knowledge is a good thing, encouraging people to essentially waste their efforts is not cool. Not every Abyssea party is 300k/hr. Sometimes the only thing people get out of helping others is the EXP that comes from kills. I know I just threw a giant rant up in the other thread regarding the WS, but I still stand behind the belief merits should never become a wasted resource.

[MojoJojo]

Changing the limit to meriting certain sections should be lifted. I don't see it being OP if someone has all the magic/combat skill/WS merits maxed.....when the job they're playing can only use certain magic/combat skills, all that other maxed stuff doesn't really matter does it?