Dragoon Updates! [Archive] - FINAL FANTASY XI Forum

Ophannus

12-29-2011, 01:31 AM

Beating Camate to the punch because he's chilling on vacation, so I'm takin' his jerb:

Changes to Wyvern:
Addition of Healing Breath IV (Lv80~)
Remove Breath will heal new status effects based on level-
Curse (Lv60~)
Virus/Plague (Lv80~)
Petra (Lv99~)

Ability Changes:
Jump
-recast lowered from 90s to 60s.
High Jump
-recast lowered from 180s to 120s
-increased usage distance
-reduces enmity of closest member behind Dragoon
Super Jump
-increased usage distance
-reduces enmity of closest member behind Dragoon
Spirit Jump
-recast lowered from 90s to 60s.
Soul Jump
-recast lowered from 180s to 120s

In accordance with this, the merits Dragoon may place for reducing the recast times for Jump and High Jump have been lowered in effectiveness:
Jump 3 => 2
High Jump 6 => 4

Spirit Surge
-Duration increased from 60s to 90s.

Overall pretty decent, I'm excited for Healing Breath IV's broken-ness considering HBIII does like 800ish now and costs 0-5mp with ZERO enmity. Yet they won't let poor RDM's have Cure V. DRG healer anyone? Kind of neat that our 2hr lasts longer although it would be nice if Spirit Jump and Soul Jump could have the crticial hit property during Spirit Surge, otherwise we actually gain LESS TP during Spirit Surge since Spirit and Soul Jump do not receive the bonus TP and the Defense Down from Jump does not stack with Angon as well as the Haste boost doesn't help much if we have March/Hastes on.

Requests for Spirit Surge:
-Duration was fine as is at 60 seconds.
-Soul and Spirit Jump do not crit nor give bonus TP under Spirit Surge; TP gain under Spirit Surge is lower than without the 2hr on, thus the DRG's damage overall decreases if they use Spirit Surge.
-The attack speed boost counts as "Magic-based-haste" instead of "Job Ability Haste" like Haste Samba and Desperate Blows. This makes Spirit Surge less powerful when we have Haste or March on.
-The Defense Down attribute on 'Jump' does not stack nor override 'Angon', further making Spirit Surge less appealing to use.

Even with these changes, the only use most Dragoons have for using Spirit Surge is to Spirit Jump>Soul Jump>Weapon Skill>Spirit Surge>CANCEL SPIRIT SURGE>Call Wyvern>Spirit Jump>Soul Jump>WS.

As you can see, developers, Dragoons currently rather NOT have the effect of Spirit Surge on because:
1) Our most powerful TP gaining tools do not work under its effect i.e Spirit Jump and Soul Jump. Compared to other 2hrs, Spirit Surge actually reduces a Dragoon's abilities in the respect of weakening Spirit and Soul Jump's TP and Damage.
2) The haste bonus is rendered useless with Haste and March on.
3) No DRG uses "Jump" during Spirit Surge because the defense down is equal to that of "Angon" and "Angon" effect is consistent in its duration. Additionally, Dragoons can strengthen Angon to reduce a target's defense by 25% with the new augmented relic Wyrm Finger Gauntlets +2, exceeding the potency of "Jump" under Spirit Surge.

Most Dragoons simply use the 2hr to reset Jump timers so they can cancel the effect, call their wyvern back and use Spirit and Soul Jump again. Spirit Surge is a very broad and complex 2hr to use compared to "Mighty Strikes, Chainspell, Hundred Fists, Invincible" etc... The effects are very wide in that it transfers Wyvern TP to us(hard to use since the wyvern loses its TP every time we use a WS which is often), heals us by the Wyvern's HP(decent when Restoring Breath is down), increases STR by a hefty amount(again decent, but the way the damage formula works, the +20 strength boost is very, VERY subtle, maybe if it also boosted Attack% as well. C

Please examine this well.

noodles355

12-29-2011, 01:55 AM

It's awesome and all, but all I can focus on is Petrify Breath, and not being able to use it if I'm petrified lol.

Ophannus

12-29-2011, 02:11 AM

White Mages can't cast Stona on themselves if they're petrified either. Don't forget "Remove Breaths" work on others in your party! Though I'd trade "Remove Virus" for "Remove Silence". I don't get Plagued much when I'm sub Mage.

Meldity

12-29-2011, 03:26 AM

It's pretty upsetting when I join a pick up VW shout and during the fight we all had to 2hr because it was in a dire moment. Someone says "MEL 2HR THIS SHIT" and then I ask myself "Why?". Sadly even with the increased duration to spirit surge the 2hr doesn't even do anything for us.. in fact it makes us less useful for about 90 seconds..

and THEEENNN I have to explain why I didn't do it while everyone is pointing fingers at me.

I didn't think about being able to cancel spirit surge, funny as it sounds, that's actually a pretty good idea.

Dev's I hope you're reading this post -.-

Aarahs

12-29-2011, 04:45 AM

Sadly I haven't seriously touched dragoon since Abyssea came out. Is our two-hour really that bad even with say sukkanoki (sp?) and meditate from subbing samurai? Even with angon I would think jump and high jump would still be useful in that situation for tp at least. I think I was able to easily push out 2-3 weapon skills at 75 under spirit surge.

That said, I think full effect of of the two newer jumps under spirit surge would make sense, just trying to look at it from the other side.

Ophannus

12-29-2011, 06:06 AM

Jump and High Jump are indeed useful under Spirit Surge effect HOWEVER it is the case that Spirit Jump and Soul Jump with the Wyvern alive are MORE useful than simply a "Defense Down effect" that we can apply with Angon. We're talking 40 TP(Combined Jump and High Jump) vs 105 TP(Combined Spirit Jump and Soul Jump...multiply these values by 2 if you account for DA or Occasionally Attacks Twice Magian Lance)

To make Spirit Surge useful I submit the following suggestions which make all the Jumps useful under 2hr.
Jump: Under Spirit Surge, applies a 30% Defense Down effect(increased from 20% from previous).
Reasoning: Angon's Defense Down can surpass Jump's Defense Down by 5%, this effect is 100% and will not miss unlike Jump and its duration is static according to merits and is not variable.

High Jump: Reducing the TP of the target is fine the way it is, it's actually quite potent as I recall testing the effect in Ballista. A 150 or 180 damage High Jump was sufficient enough to reduce a target's TP from 300% to 0% oddly enough. Although this ability is powerful, its application is very difficult to use in a real fight mainly because most high level HNMs and Voidwatch NMs have a vast TP regain below 50% or 25% HP and it's difficult to gauge when this ability should be used as we cannot see the target's TP.

Spirit Jump&Soul Jump: Allow it to receive the benefit of the Wyvern since technically the Wyvern has been "absorbed" and the description of Spirit Surge in the help menu says "Adds the wyvern's strength to your own". That being said, Spirit Jump and Soul Jump should not be rendered obsolete during our 2hr by weaker Jumps with weaker effects.

Meldity

12-29-2011, 09:46 AM

The proper way to actually utilize the 2hour requires your wyvern to have 300% tp. And pay attention cause this order i'm about to explain is so fucked up and sensitive.

>Angon
>After wyvern gets 300% tp you stay disengaged
>get in front of the mob,
>engage, then WS before your character is able to swing at it(this prevents the wyvern from going into attack mode + auto breath mode when you WS).
>spirit link for 150% tp
>WS again before your character is able to swing at it (yes this is possible to do)
>do jumps for the hell of it
>sekka
>spirit surge
>ws for the rest of the duration.

Normally if i can't do that all, using 2 hour is pretty much worthless on it's own since I need my wyvern just to proc VWNM's anyway.

in a normal zerg your going to have capped haste, however in VW you'll have corsairs using tacticians and misers roll anyway, that is if your in a group that knows what they're doing. but another problem is that you should be using coercion and discipline atmacites which pretty much guarantee's you enough TP just a second after you WS.

My point is the 2hr isn't useful in either an actual zerg or a vw fight because not only is angon more potent than the jumps 2hr def down, but you'll only notice maybe a 1% in damage increase from using 2hour and no gain whatsoever from the haste bonus. Even if you did 2hr in vw chances are you'll be yelled at because the next HQ proc is apparently wyvern earth breath which you somehow "killed" to make yourself "stronger". Sounds absolutely stupid I know.

Ophannus

12-29-2011, 10:48 AM

I've done that before on weaker mobs or solo/lowman things but in VW where you have a full alliance it makes disengaging and reingaging and using a WS before the wyvern hits to prevent breaths very difficult with lag and AoE etc. I was hoping for a pet command called like Refrain or something that increases wyvern attack speed/accuracy but disables automatic breaths on WS or magic but still allows restoring or smiting breath. This would allow the DRG to keep the Wyvern's TP stored to make better use of Spirit Link for that sweet 150% TP transfer every few minutes. They added the ability for Spirit Link to transfer TP but it's too difficult to use.

Coldbrand

12-29-2011, 01:06 PM

It's a good thing we'll have an alternate 2 hour to choose soon enough then.

noodles355

12-30-2011, 01:33 AM

Tbh in a normal zerg, Drg has enough damn JA delay already without using Spirit Surge. Not like War who buffs to high-hell before engaging then just melees, WSs and uses Mediate and Warrior's Charge once each. Start adding more JA delay through spirit surge and call wyvern and you might even slow down your melee attack rounds so much that you actually lose damage. I'm assuming capped magic/gear haste zergs of course.

Ophannus

01-03-2012, 03:06 AM

I was reading on the JP forums that many JP DRG share the exact same sentiments:

1) Spirit Surge is a hard 2hr to use 'in a pinch' compared to Mighty Strikes, Meikyo, Chainspell, Invincible, Eagle Eye Shot.
2) It kills our Wyvern while providing lackluster benefits i.e Attack Speed Boost that can be gained through non-2hr things like Haste and March.
3)Angon>Jump under Spirit Surge
4)Spirit/Soul Jump with Wyvern alive > Jump/High Jump under Spirit Surge.

Besides this, I also read comments regarding how DRG performs poorly due to having low Attack Power. There are only 3 jobs that use sub SAM in today's FFXI: WAR, DRK and DRG, the 2-hand jobs. Warrior gains the most with /SAM because WAR has Berserk, Attack Bonus, Warcry, Double Attack all natively. DRK gains all the benefits of /SAM while maintaining a ton of Attack from traits as well as their own native attack and haste boosts from Last Resort and Soul Eater. DRG subs SAM as well, but unlike WAR and DRK, we have no native self buff for boosting Attack, so while DRK and WAR can do impressive damage using their main job's special abilities, DRG subs SAM for extra weapon skills albeit weaker ones. We need /SAM for Seigan,Third Eye, and most importanly Hasso and Store TP, so subbing Warrior on DRG is out of the question. So since our only self buffs come from our Subjob, please give us one or two self enhancing job abilities with duration! DRK/SAM and WAR/SAM are extremely solid job combinations while DRG/SAM feels incomplete and yearning for a berserk/last resort equivalent.

A small Attack Boosting JA is all we really ask for as our final job ability.

Fervor
Enhances Attack but lowers critical hit evasion.
Attack+15% Critical Hit Evasion-15%
Duration 3 minutes. Recast 5 minutes.

If we attained this job ability or something like this, and Spirit Surge's effects on ALL Jumps was enhanced(-30% Def down on Jump, Spirit/Soul Jump maintain special critical hit and TP bonuses and the haste was changed to Job Ability haste like Haste Samba/Desperate Blows) DRG would be a complete and solid job and we'd be happy forever and ever and never complain again.

Any DRG that has participated in Voidwatch would agree and attest to the fact that our WS are powerful on weak enemies but when it comes to NMs with high defense, our WS fall vastly short in comparison to other 2hand weapon users.

Ophannus

01-03-2012, 11:10 PM

People over in the JP forums were also asking for a 5 min Recast mini-call wyvern, similar to Deus Ex Automata. It can call the wyvern in a weakened state(50% HP) which would severely hamper breath potency but still make it viable to proc in Voidwatch when our Wyverns are killed in one hit(some voidwatch TP moves still do 2k+ to our wyverns). So we can use the mini-call wyvern>dismiss>call wyvern without having to wait 20minutes to recall it.

Camate

01-04-2012, 05:27 AM

As 2012 is the year of the dragon, it would be appropriate to disclose some information I have regarding dragoon adjustments. :)

*Currently these features are in-development and testing and are subject to change.

Wyvern Adjustments

Addition of Healing Breath IV (Lv80~)

Additional status ailment cures for Remove Breath depending on level

Curse/Bane (Lv60～)
Disease/Plague (Lv80～)
Petrification (Lv99～)

Ability Adjustments

Jump

Reduce recast time from 90 seconds → 60 seconds

High Jump

Reduce recast time from 180 seconds → 120 seconds
Increase the maximum range
Reduce the enmity of the closest party member behind you

Super Jump

Increase the maximum range
Reduce the enmity of the closest party member behind you

Spirit Jump

Reduce recast time from 90 seconds → 60 seconds

Soul Jump

Reduce recast time from 180 seconds → 120 seconds

　
Along with the reduced recast times for each ability, we will be simultaneously adjusting dragoon’s group 1 merit points for “Jump Recast” and “High Jump Recast.”

Jump Recast 3 seconds → 2 seconds
High Jump Recast 6 seconds → 4 seconds

Spirit Surge Adjustment

Increase effect duration from 60 seconds → 90 seconds

As long as there are no major development/testing problems, we are planning to introduce these changes on the test server middle or late January.

Cowardlybabooon

01-04-2012, 06:36 AM

Tanaka is at it again. I thought we were all gonna get free mythics and all we got was an improvement to all of our abilities. Clearly he doesn't understand that we need MORE FREE STUFF.

Keinn

01-04-2012, 06:39 AM

Great news!

Ophannus

01-04-2012, 06:47 AM

Hope he got the past two pages of comments to send to the dev team!

Alhanelem

01-04-2012, 07:08 AM

Well, I was expecting unnecessary nerfs, so this is good news!

Urteil

01-04-2012, 07:47 AM

This is actually pretty good stuff.

Tohihroyu

01-04-2012, 01:06 PM

Tanaka is at it again. I thought we were all gonna get free mythics and all we got was an improvement to all of our abilities. Clearly he doesn't understand that we need MORE FREE STUFF.

JPONRY! Gajin are lucky they play w.

But hows the pet suposed to remove petrifacation off you when YOU are petrified? XD (yes I know it'd work if you are with another drg/mage & they ws)

I maxed out my jump recasts XD

/hurray Curing Breath IV!

Now... Tanakaaaa why wont you lower the recast on call wyvren? I'm sure some of the Japanese Dragoons would like this too T_T

Darkvalkyr

01-04-2012, 05:06 PM

Except for the merit recast reduction, I don't see how this is terrible news?

Mizuharu

01-04-2012, 10:38 PM

Now... Tanakaaaa why wont you lower the recast on call wyvren? I'm sure some of the Japanese Dragoons would like this too T_T

I'm fine with the current recast on Call Wyvern. Sure, PUP can merit the recast down for Activate. But no PUP actually uses that merit... There's plenty of ways to keep the wyvern alive (Spirit Link, Steady Wing, etc.) Though, what I would like more than Call Wyvern timer adjustments, is the ability for the wyvern to target itself with Healing Breath/ Remove breaths. Seeing as how the Automaton is able to Cure itself. :x (And please don't take this as "remove the ability for the automaton to cast any sort of healing magic on itself" dev team... -.-)

Transmit

01-05-2012, 12:13 AM

Though I'm fine with a long recast on Call Wyvern, I just think 20 minutes is way too much. Ten minutes and I would be very happy. The hardest VW mobs right now are still able to devastate your wyvern pretty damn quickly if you stop paying attention for a few moments, and then having to sit there and say "Sorry guys! Cant hit the wyvern proc!" is just irritating more than anything else.

I would love a fix for the little thing which bug me though, like the Wyvern dying if you get on a chocobo, and having to wait the full time to recall him, that just makes so little sense.

But really? No complaints about this update, everything DRG gains is better than nothing, and with the lowered jump timers we'll be a TP machine. I would still however love a natural way for DRG to enhance their own attack like DRK and WAR have, or SAM with their attack bonus's on their WS's, I suppose "Use Angon" comes under this, but some sort of stance style JA would be awesome.

Economizer

01-05-2012, 12:59 AM

I would love a fix for the little thing which bug me though, like the Wyvern dying if you get on a chocobo, and having to wait the full time to recall him, that just makes so little sense.

That's just the poor Wyvern's heart giving out in despair since you choose to the Chocobo over the Wyvern (which obviously means you love it more then the Wyvern).

Transmit

01-05-2012, 02:15 AM

I'm no Taru! I'll break its back hitching a ride!

Ophannus

01-05-2012, 05:05 AM

Pretty hard to keep the wyvern alive if you're doing like 4-6 high level VWNMs in a row, chances are you'll get bound,slept,petrified,terrorized as you're recovering from the WS animation and your wyvern will eat another TP move.

ThaiChi

01-05-2012, 05:48 AM

I'm assuming remove petrify doesn't work if you're solo?

Ophannus

01-05-2012, 11:08 PM

Does Stona and Silena work if you're solo?

Scribble

01-11-2012, 10:45 PM

I'm fine with the current recast on Call Wyvern. Sure, PUP can merit the recast down for Activate. But no PUP actually uses that merit...
...because they all merited Repair and they have Deus Ex Automata.

brayen

01-12-2012, 02:44 AM

...because they all merited Repair and they have Deus Ex Automata.

what pup merits repair? lol honestly there no need to be comparing the jobs, pup relies heavily on the pet where as drg is much more capable alone.
Also using VW as the premise for a change is bad, as that is only one(and a terrible one at that) event. If you need a change due to VW make it within the system such as removing wyvern breaths <terrible idea for a proc>

Sonshou

01-12-2012, 07:15 AM

Spirit Surge may not be a life saver as other 2hr abilities, but It surely beat Call Wyvrn as 2hr ability.

Camate

01-12-2012, 09:07 AM

Hey everyone :)

I bring some more news about dragoon adjustments. These are some responses to questions/requests that have been seen on the Japanese forum.

Are there any plans to adjust the haste category for Spirit Surge?

Haste is split into two categories, magical and equipment. Spirit Surge currently falls into the magical category, but in order for this to be changed so it is treated neither as magical nor equipment, it’s necessary to edit the programming itself and this takes some time to do.

We weren’t able to inform you the other day at the same time as the other adjustments, but we’ve completed the work to make it possible to make Spirit Surge’s haste effect be in its own category similar to Hasso and we would like to implement this on the test server along with the Jump/Breath adjustments.

Due to this adjustment the number of attack rounds in a given time frame will increase, so we are planning to keep the effect duration of Spirit Surge at 60 seconds.

Curse/Bane (Lv60~)
Will this Cursna Breath have any effect on Doom?

Similar to the effect of the white magic spell Cursna, it will have a chance to cure Death (though there is a chance it will miss).

High jump
If you are going to add stats to High Jump, you should remove the shared recast timer with Soul Jump.

Soul Jump and Spirit Jump’s usage interval were set on the basis that they share recast timers.
Since we have reached the limit system wise for recast timers, it will not be possible to split any more. We have been exploring other possibilities, but a short term solution is rather difficult and we apologize that we haven’t finalized anything as of yet.

Remove Breath
What about the order of use for status cures? Will it be possible to use multiple times? Can we choose?

In the case that you are inflicted with multiple status ailments, Remove Breath will cure only one of them. The status ailments cured will be selected based on level, but there is still room to look into priority, so please let us know your feedback.

Coldbrand

01-12-2012, 09:16 AM

Can you fix Camlann's Torment to be worthwhile?(ignoring PDT or DT instead of DEF is an idea, and the damge should scale with TP, especially as a non-crit) As it stands the OaT Lance is considered the vastly superior weapon and that seems fundamentally wrong. (Geirskogul could obviously also use some retooling.)

Can we get a final JA or trait and not just wyvern breath stuff?
.Lancet would be cool before capping off Dragoon(yes I know SS is Lancet in JP, it's not functionally similar at all.)
.Literally any of Freya's abilities from IX seem easy to implement and useful for making DRG even more party friendly than it is which seems to be the developer's direction for the job anyhow.
.Alternatively FFTA style breaths generated by the dragoon provided you could do it in a way that'd be worthwhile of giving up a swing for TP.
.Dragonheart could be a cool trait if done in a way that'd still be useful to twilight owners.
.Lastly I'd love to see Freya's trance implemented as our alt 2 hour when those hit via merits, combine super jump with lance tosses and you have a highly unique and high utility effect people might find use for.

Can you make it so Ryunohige effects the new jumps? Even with the crit boost Dragon Whisker DRGs wouldn't use jump over spirit jump.

Can you make our accuracy boost trait tiers visible to end that debate?

Can you tell us what our emp+2 legs do to soul jump as testing shows no results?

Any plans to do anything about how impossible it is to proc wyvern breath !! in VW?

You had mentioned wyvern customization several times in the past, yet nothing has been said about that since.

Why do you insist on continuing to waste slots on the stats of our relic+2 with wyvern phys/magic damage trash that's useful to all of no one? What do you think we're going to do, hit the mob then SJ so the wyvern can tank? You could be putting STP, Haste, or making it into a WS piece like you've done for the other jobs. It's unfair how much of a boost certain jobs (NIN) got out of relic+2 compared to ours only really being useful for breath/augments.

Any plans to add a status restoring/smiting breath JA? No one brings anything but /SAM to any real content, and DRG is largely inferior to alternatives for soloing now, thus /caster not really being very relevant anymore.

Can you replace how strafe works? As it stands it's totally outshone by the other group 2 merits, and in general offensive wyvern breaths either need a new tier or a boost in general to not be anything but laughingly bad, towards lower levels the breath was at least somewhat relevant, now 1 breath attack is maybe as good as half of a lance hit.

Would you consider making the def down of spirit surge jump 30%? As of now it's the same as angon, and after relic+2 hands it's 5% less. It also has a chance to miss, unlike Angon.

Do you EVER plan to fix the wyvern breath animation getting stuck glitch when you kill a mob before they can go off? It's existed since the game began.

PS: Pretend I'm Japanese so you'll actually answer my questions.

Kalilla

01-12-2012, 09:16 AM

lol

Curse/Bane (Lv60~)
Will this Cursna Breath have any effect on Doom?
Similar to the effect of the white magic spell Cursna, it will have a chance to cure Death (though there is a chance it will miss).

:p lol <3

SpankWustler

01-12-2012, 10:50 AM

Haste is split into two categories, magical and equipment. Spirit Surge currently falls into the magical category, but in order for this to be changed so it is treated neither as magical nor equipment, it’s necessary to edit the programming itself and this takes some time to do.

We weren’t able to inform you the other day at the same time as the other adjustments, but we’ve completed the work to make it possible to make Spirit Surge’s haste effect be in its own category similar to Hasso and we would like to implement this on the test server along with the Jump/Breath adjustments.

When I think about how FFXI must have been made such that it now requires significant time and effort to change an ability to provide ability-category Haste, I feel as though certain parts of my brain are trying desperately to eat other parts of my brain.

Insaniac

01-12-2012, 12:30 PM

Please reconsider extending the duration of Spirit surge in addition to changing it to JA haste. There's no reason we can't have 2 minutes of JA haste on our 2 hour when other jobs get 3 minutes of JA haste on a 5 minute ability.

Juilan

01-12-2012, 12:49 PM

When I read this I thought some of the people SE hired to code the game looked like this:
http://www.cotewrites.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Fez-Wearing-Monkey-On-A-Wall1.jpg

Ciecle

01-12-2012, 02:47 PM

Are we getting a "pet ability" like 'Heal' Breath or 'Erase' Breath(Like Smiting breath/Restoring Breath) to accompany the completion of -na breaths

or did we already get one and i'm missed the notes somewhere...

Ophannus

01-12-2012, 06:13 PM

Due to this adjustment the number of attack rounds in a given time frame will increase, so we are planning to keep the effect duration of Spirit Surge at 60 seconds.

Desperate Blows: Reduces delay for two-handed weapons when using Last Resort by 5% per merit. 25% for 5 merits.

Last Resort
Increases user's attack, but lowers defense.
Obtained: Dark Knight Level 15
Recast Time: 5:00
Duration: 3:00

Spirit Surge

Adds your wyvern's strength to your own.
Obtained: Dragoon Level 1
Recast Time: 2:00:00
Duration: 1:00

Why can DRK get 3 minutes of +25% haste during last resort but we can't get the 90 seconds of Spirit Surge as originally stated? +25% Attack and +25% haste is already better than our 2hr. A level 5 JA with a level 75 trait maxed out is miles better than DRG 2hr.

Furukawa

01-12-2012, 06:27 PM

Desperate Blows: Reduces delay for two-handed weapons when using Last Resort by 5% per merit. 25% for 5 merits.

Last Resort
Increases user's attack, but lowers defense.
Obtained: Dark Knight Level 15
Recast Time: 5:00
Duration: 3:00

Spirit Surge

Adds your wyvern's strength to your own.
Obtained: Dragoon Level 1
Recast Time: 2:00:00
Duration: 1:00

Why can DRK get 3 minutes of +25% haste during last resort but we can't get the 90 seconds of Spirit Surge as originally stated? +25% Attack and +25% haste is already better than our 2hr. A level 5 JA with a level 75 trait maxed out is miles better than DRG 2hr.

Cause Desperate Blows doesn't give Haste. it lowers your weapon's delay so you're getting less TP.

Arcon

01-12-2012, 06:43 PM

Cause Desperate Blows doesn't give Haste. it lowers your weapon's delay so you're getting less TP.

No, it gives Haste and does not lower your TP/hit ratio.

Transmit

01-12-2012, 08:20 PM

Drai

01-12-2012, 09:21 PM

I have to echo this opinion. YES it's good we're getting Spirit Surge changed to JA haste over magic haste, but why do we need to have the duration shortened? DRK can do a similar move every 5 minutes which lasts for 3 minutes which comes with a comparable second buff to the rest of the boosts we get, but 90 seconds for us is too long and should be shortened? That makes no sense.

plus we actually seem to lose DPS during our 2 hour because we have to sacrifice our wyvern to use it, I don't understand why our 2 hour can't just give both us and our Wyverns a stat boost, and while you're at it make Call Wyvern 5 minute recast pls, trying to get Breath staggers in VW is impossible and our Wyverns die in like 15-20 seconds with AoE's anyways.

I basically have to NOT summon my Wyvern until I see a Breath stagger, than 99% of the time it won't use it so we have to lower the mobs resists enough until it decides to use the correct one, I don't understand why just letting us choose which breath it uses with Smiting Breath would break the game >.>.

Helel

01-12-2012, 09:22 PM

Oh, well I guess the recast limitation is why double shot shares the same recast as unlimited shot... Seriously, the two JAs have NOTHING in common. I know this is DRG forum but, just wanted to point out how dumb the limitation is. This should have been top priority when these new JAs were introduced... not now.

loldrg

01-12-2012, 10:39 PM

How about a tiered JT haste? You know, @ lv 30, 50, 70 etc etc, 1% haste each increment for a total of 5% @ 99. Since we can't get a decent attack bonus trait, maybe a trade off for faster attacks. If it falls under equipment haste, then we would only have to gear for 20%(21% for you sticklers) to reach cap and can mix up our current gear selection to improve attack via gear. If it goes another route via magical haste or JA haste, even better i suppose. Or just give us a attack bonus JA/JT that's worthwhile. Surprise us SE, THINK OUTSIDE OF THE BOX!

Coldbrand

01-13-2012, 01:52 AM

Ophannus

01-13-2012, 03:33 AM

Wonder if the recast limitation means we won't be getting new JAs 96-99 for any job.

Coldbrand

01-13-2012, 04:43 AM

Wonder if the recast limitation means we won't be getting new JAs 96-99 for any job.

That'd be so pathetic.

Babekeke

01-13-2012, 06:31 AM

while you're at it make Call Wyvern 5 minute recast pls, trying to get Breath staggers in VW is impossible and our Wyverns die in like 15-20 seconds with AoE's anyways.

I basically have to NOT summon my Wyvern until I see a Breath stagger, than 99% of the time it won't use it so we have to lower the mobs resists enough until it decides to use the correct one, I don't understand why just letting us choose which breath it uses with Smiting Breath would break the game >.>.

Slightly off-topic, I've not got to play DRG in VW yet so I have to ask: Does the wyvern vanish when you pop the VWNM, like avatars do?

Transmit

01-13-2012, 06:34 AM

It doesnt depop like Avatars do, but if the wyvern hangs about for a TP move or two it vanishes quick enough!

Economizer

01-13-2012, 08:34 AM

Wonder if the recast limitation means we won't be getting new JAs 96-99 for any job.

All they would have to do is make all job ability timers over level 50 share recast timers with other job's timers that are also above level 50. Since 2hour timers are already shared and all other timers are 20 minutes or less, this wouldn't lead to too much of a problem when switching between jobs.

Currently the most job abilities a job has above level 50 (or even job specific timers) is roughly six, ignoring shared timers. Add one to this for the two hour timer and you have a current amount of seven timers.

Ignoring job specific job timers like Afflatus Solace or Yonin, we have the following unique job abilities. Considering that I'm more or less just trying to jot this out, there may be errors in what job abilities share timers, so feel free to help correct this list:

Pianissimo
Fight
Charm
Gauge
Heel/Stay
Reward
Sic/Ready
Call Beast
Tame
Leave
Snarl
Elemental Seal
Burst Affinity
Chain Affinity
Phantom Roll
Double-Up
Quick Draw
Sambas
Waltzes
Steps
Flourishes I
Jigs
Flourishes II
Arcane Circle
Last Resort
Weapon Bash
Souleater
Ancient Circle
Jump
Spirit Link
High Jump
Boost
Dodge
Focus
Chakra
Chi Blast
Counterstance
Holy Circle
Shield Bash
Sentinel
Cover
Activate
Deploy
Deactivate
Maneuvers
Deus Ex Automata
Retrieve
Repair
Sharpshot
Scavenge
Camouflage
Barrage
Shadowbind
Velocity Shot
Convert
Warding Circle
Third Eye
Hasso
Meditate
Seigan
Sekkanoki
Light Arts
Dark Arts
Sublimation
Assault
Blood Pact: Rage
Blood Pact: Ward
Release
Retreat
Steal
Sneak Attack
Flee
Trick Attack
Mug
Hide
Provoke
Berserk
Defender
Warcry
Aggressor
Divine Seal

Now some of these share timers with job specific ones that are higher, particularly for Thief and Dragoon.

Certain things could be adjusted, for example Shield/Weapon Bash could share a timer, or stuff like the Arcane/Undead/etc Circles could share a recast timer with each other. Certain pet abilities could be made to share timers since you can only have one pet at a time, if they haven't been made to already.

Assuming SE has a nice even amount of job abilities we can probably assume the limit is something like 128, or perhaps higher if other factors like spells are in, or more if they were inefficient with the timers or some other factor. Still, we can't know for sure and we are unlikely to know for sure.

Basically, if they haven't already, they could have job abilities past 50 share timers as well as any improvement to these 80+ job ability timers to reduce their number. Nobody can use Enlightenment, Sabre Dance, or Devotion at the same time, so it only makes sense to have them share timers as appropriate.

Coldbrand

01-13-2012, 08:59 AM

Slightly off-topic, I've not got to play DRG in VW yet so I have to ask: Does the wyvern vanish when you pop the VWNM, like avatars do?

No instead you're just supposed to let it take a hit before using steady wing, then you get amnesia'd and can't save it in time and get irritated and your damage output falls radically.

Ophannus

01-13-2012, 09:10 AM

EVen with temps and food, the higher tier VW NMs have too high def for DRG to do any meaningful kind of damage. Talking like 600-1.2k Stardivers vs almost everything else doing 2k+ just be virtue of the fact that other jobs have attack boosting skills that we don't.

Throughout the history of FFXI DRG has never been a good damage dealer in top tier end game compared to others, it's always been a fantastic DD in small group events like Salvage/Assaults/Dynamis/Limbus but once the super strong HNMs roll around DRG falls heavily behind WAR DRK SAM MNK.

Transmit

01-13-2012, 10:15 AM

I have to ask, are you got your Stalwarts drink yet? On pretty much all lvl 95 content, short of Uptala who takes lowered piercing damage, my DRG averages 1800~ Stardivers now, with highs of up to 3k+.

The only new lvl 99 NM I've done so far is Ig Alima, where I averaged 1200 Stardivers, though I did have some depressing lows at times. I do however agree we lack behind the other top tier DD's by quite a margin, but we can at least provide consistent damage now.

I do agree though that DRG really lacks attack when compared to the top tier DDs. WAR SAM MNK all have access to berserk, and DRK has last resort + plenty of Attack Bonus traits. I'd love to see DRG get some natural attack buff to bring them in line with the top tiers.

Transmit

01-13-2012, 10:44 AM

Why... wh.... why did you pick this thread for that outburst?

Edit - Curse people deleting posts!

Ophannus

01-13-2012, 12:23 PM

On Ig Alima my Drakesbanes and Stardivers were so pathetic I wanted to die. I was doing 28-400 damage with all my WS having well over 999 attack and pretty sweet gear and Angon+1. Granted I didn't have a BRD but that shouldn't have made much of a difference. Occasionally I would get 700-1k Stardivers but those were rare on Ig. My numbers are also pretty low on Lancing Lamborak but it could be due to shadows and his high ass evasion cuz I was ranging from 0-1200 on him but mostly averaging around 700-900 meanwhile Blade Hi was doing 800-2k and Shoha/Ukko/VS were doing well above that.

Camate

01-14-2012, 04:57 AM

Fusionx

01-14-2012, 05:14 AM

Ahh OK! That makes more sense now. Thanks for the clarification Snurble!

brayen

01-14-2012, 05:15 AM

if that is the case lets start sharing timers with the terrible circle and crest JA, those two are so abysmally terrible <for all the jobs> that it seems like a waste of better JA possibilities

Transmit

01-14-2012, 05:19 AM

Camate

01-14-2012, 05:25 AM

No no no! Don't look into lowering the timer of spirit link! Look into lower the time of Call Wyvern! It doesnt matter if we can cure our wyvern when your VW mobs can demolish it before you can get through the menu.

Pretty sure we did this when we reduced it from 2 hours to 20 minutes, no? lol

On a serious note, I will submit the feedback :p

Kalilla

01-14-2012, 05:28 AM

Camate made a funny!

lol

Transmit

01-14-2012, 05:30 AM

You know that was done because it was a poor poor 2 hour! You can't give us procs for NMs and buffs tied to the wyvern being alive and then leave it on a twenty minute recast, even with the additions to help keep it alive (which I do love, lets not get me wrong) it just isnt enough to keep the wyvern around when it's needed. One AoE from most of the higher tier VWNMs does enough damage to kill the wyvern or leave you terror'd, para'd , amnesia'd to a state where you can't cure it. I'm fine with it dying, but then sitting there for 18 minutes saying you're sorry but no Breath procs is embarrassing.

Tannlore

01-14-2012, 05:47 AM

I like these changes, send my compliments to the devs. Also thanks for the clarification on the shared timers issue, sheds some light on things. And I don't see any problem with the priority of status cures.

Babekeke

01-14-2012, 05:59 AM

Next, in regards to priority of status ailment cures from Remove Breath, the below order was suggested:

Paralyze>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Curse/Death > Disease/Plague>Petrify >>> Blind>Poison

If there are no problems with this the development team will be looking into this direction. Let us know if you prefer something different.

Surely it should be Death/Curse > Petrify > Paralyze > Disease/Plague > Blind > Poison. Noone is going to care much about being paralysed if they're also Doomed! Then of course petrification is the next worst ailment to be inflicted with. Obviously it can't cure your own, since if you're petrified, you aren't using your weaponskill to trigger the healing breath, but if your tank/healer is petrified and you're the only one who can cure it... noone cares about having paralyse cured. Also, can it not remove silence? Silena should also be a high priority, namely because if you're /whm or /sch you can remove the other ailments yourself! But not if you're silenced. I'd put silena after petrify but before paralyze.

Ciecle

01-14-2012, 06:03 AM

I’m sure you’re all wondering what this whole “recast timer limitations” thing is all about.

For a main job, the current maximum number of abilities with recast timers is 12. (Adding on a support job brings this up to a total of 24.)

Dragoon has pretty much reached the limit of the allocated 12 recast timers set for a main job.

In order to add jumps to dragoon, which already had a large amount of abilities, we based the stats on the fact that the recasts would be shared, since we had no choice but to create shared recast timers. Had we actually eliminated the recast timer limitation problem and created unique recast timers for Spirit Jump and Soul Jump, I believe that their recast timers would be longer.

Next, in regards to priority of status ailment cures from Remove Breath, the below order was suggested:

Paralyze>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Curse/Death > Disease/Plague>Petrify >>> Blind>Poison

If there are no problems with this the development team will be looking into this direction. Let us know if you prefer something different.

The development team is also looking into reducing the recast timer of Spirit Link as well as introducing items that will allow you to cure your Wyvern.

Does this include pets? because if it does as of right now, Drg would have 14 recast timers. if it doesnt, that would mean it only has 11 recast timers meaning room for 1 more INDEPENDENT job ability!! Make the last ability useful~!

edit: Cant count the new 2hrs coming in march because those are shared timers iirc.

edit2:
Surely it should be Death/Curse > Petrify > Paralyze > Disease/Plague > Blind > Poison. Noone is going to care much about being paralysed if they're also Doomed! Then of course petrification is the next worst ailment to be inflicted with. Obviously it can't cure your own, since if you're petrified, you aren't using your weaponskill to trigger the healing breath, but if your tank/healer is petrified and you're the only one who can cure it... noone cares about having paralyse cured. Also, can it not remove silence? Silena should also be a high priority, namely because if you're /whm or /sch you can remove the other ailments yourself! But not if you're silenced. I'd put silena after petrify but before paralyze.

This is why i asked earlier if the wyvern will be getting a new ability like 'Remove' breath or something, because as of right now, you have to use mage(or nin) sub to get all 3 breath types from the wyvern

Alhanelem

01-14-2012, 06:15 AM

Pretty sure we did this when we reduced it from 2 hours to 20 minutes, no? lol

On a serious note, I will submit the feedback :p
Well the thing is, PUP has a way to get its pet back sooner, while DRG doesn't.

Transmit

01-14-2012, 06:32 AM

brayen

01-14-2012, 09:32 AM

PUP can call their automaton every 1 minutes with Deus Ex Automata.
BST can use Call Beast every 5 minutes.
SMN can summon whenever and how often they feel like.

It seems silly for the job which really makes the least use out of the pet, to be stuck on a 20 minute recast. THank you for telling our thoughts to the dev's!

Actually you have it backwards. The jobs most reliant on the pet are the ones who have the shortest recast on the pet. Don't get me wrong i think there are tons of problems with pet availability to all said jobs <they should have at most 5min*liekweakness*> but you are trying to say a job <like smn or pup> who have a 50 to 100% dependency on the pet is the same as drg who has at best 10% dependency?

Transmit

01-14-2012, 09:47 AM

You're right. I worded that dreadfully, what I mean is that if all the *real* pet jobs can call their pets much quicker, wheres the threat of us being able to call our wyvern quickly? It's not like it changes the outcome of a battle.

Granny

01-14-2012, 10:01 AM

Surely it should be Death/Curse > Petrify > Paralyze > Disease/Plague > Blind > Poison. Noone is going to care much about being paralysed if they're also Doomed! Then of course petrification is the next worst ailment to be inflicted with. Obviously it can't cure your own, since if you're petrified, you aren't using your weaponskill to trigger the healing breath, but if your tank/healer is petrified and you're the only one who can cure it... noone cares about having paralyse cured. Also, can it not remove silence? Silena should also be a high priority, namely because if you're /whm or /sch you can remove the other ailments yourself! But not if you're silenced. I'd put silena after petrify but before paralyze.

I agree totaly with what Babekeke posted.

The status priority listed to be removed is not practical, silence is extremely important to be cured if ur useing magic to trigger healing breath, think it should be

curse/doom>petrify>paralyze>silence>disease/plague>blind>poison

silence after paralyze because we can always use echo drops if we have to, poison after blind cus we can always use antidotes also if its that dire of a situation.

Sotek

01-14-2012, 11:06 AM

If Dragoon has reached the limit on job abilities I take it Empathy wont ever be its own ability... In that case can you ask the development team to take the "Wyvern: HP+10%" off Wyrm Greaves +2 and put it on Wyrm Mail +2? Having "Enhances "Empathy" effect" on the same piece of gear as added Wyvern HP greatly annoys me. Plus I'm getting sick of Wyvern Mail which looks like bloody Lv.10 Scale Mail...
Could also share the recast on Empathy with Spirit Link I guess.

Thinking about it, couldn't they change Jumps to work exactly like Stratagems? I imagine that would circumvent the whole issue, Scholar has 16 Stratagems so I imagine they avoid the whole issue by counting as only one recast. That would convert three recasts into one, give two to four Jump charges with a recast between Jump and High Jump, I imagine a 3 minute recast at Lv.10 with 1 charge, 1:30 minute recast with 2 charges at Lv.40, 1 minute with 3 charges at Lv.70 and maybe 45 seconds with 4 charges at Lv.99, I'd say leave it at 3 charges though. Could even give them free reign to add plenty of new Jumps, only issue it would bring is having to change the Jump and High Jump merits (recast merits need changing anyway in my opinion) and I guess they may need to rebalance all the Jumps since I doubt anyone would do anything but spam Soul Jump. Would be great for Spirit Surge too I imagine, rather than dropping the recast to zero it does the same as Tabula and gives you unlimited Jumps for the duration, that alone would make it far more useful in my opinion.

Ophannus

01-14-2012, 11:36 AM

Could even split Jumps into 2 categories for separate recasts. "Jumps" and "High Jumps" one for damage/TP the other for hate sheds/ailments.

Calysto

01-14-2012, 06:30 PM

For remove order, i'd go with curse/doom>paralyze>=petrify>(silence)>poison>plague>blind

Since disease/plague is hardly threatening while poison can be.
paralyze-petrify, not sure wich one shoud proc first.

also not sure if possible, but would be nice if theses
-can be separated between doom/curse and plague/diseases(making doom>paralyze/petri>curse>plague>>>disease)
-can have a different order for dragoon/party member(then party member would have petrify take higher priority)

Economizer

01-15-2012, 03:40 AM

For a main job, the current maximum number of abilities with recast timers is 12. (Adding on a support job brings this up to a total of 24.)

Thanks for the clarification. People in this thread made some excellent points regarding this:

Thinking about it, couldn't they change Jumps to work exactly like Stratagems? I imagine that would circumvent the whole issue, Scholar has 16 Stratagems so I imagine they avoid the whole issue by counting as only one recast. That would convert three recasts into one, give two to four Jump charges with a recast between Jump and High Jump, I imagine a 3 minute recast at Lv.10 with 1 charge, 1:30 minute recast with 2 charges at Lv.40, 1 minute with 3 charges at Lv.70 and maybe 45 seconds with 4 charges at Lv.99, I'd say leave it at 3 charges though. Could even give them free reign to add plenty of new Jumps, only issue it would bring is having to change the Jump and High Jump merits (recast merits need changing anyway in my opinion) and I guess they may need to rebalance all the Jumps since I doubt anyone would do anything but spam Soul Jump. Would be great for Spirit Surge too I imagine, rather than dropping the recast to zero it does the same as Tabula and gives you unlimited Jumps for the duration, that alone would make it far more useful in my opinion.

Could even split Jumps into 2 categories for separate recasts. "Jumps" and "High Jumps" one for damage/TP the other for hate sheds/ailments.

Dragoon could have two charge timers set up like Stratagems, one for Jumps and one for High Jumps. Using the two hour ability might even allow for as many of these as one could perform in a given time. This might not be the right answer but please consider it, it sounds interesting.

Again, thanks for the clarification on job ability timers.

Paralyze>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Curse/Death > Disease/Plague>Petrify >>> Blind>Poison

Personally, I like this order. What people may not realize is that curing Doom won't be 100% but if you are Paralyzed you might get blocked from that one Holy Water that happens to save you. Given that I think this the first two things are done well. I'd probably put Petrify above Disease/Plague though, and Poison above Disease/Plague as well, but even if this order wasn't changed I think we could live with it.

Ophannus

01-15-2012, 04:13 AM

Honestly if I'm fighting anything that doom/curses me, I'd probably be /WHM or /SCH.

Zhronne

01-15-2012, 05:52 AM

Ophannus

01-15-2012, 11:27 AM

Maybe counts pet commands since those technically have a recast and are job specific.

Zhronne

01-15-2012, 12:53 PM

If it counts pet commands DRG is at 14 I Think, and other jobs are too, so really I can't really manage to understand what Camate meant.

Ophannus

01-15-2012, 01:56 PM

95% of his posts are just translations of things posted on the JP forums so I doubt we'll ever get any clarity on that unless the JP community team responds to the JP forum and Camate translates it for us.

Meldity

01-15-2012, 02:12 PM

I'm requesting more viable options to get our wyverns to have 1k exp please. I don't want to run around and kill EP mobs (the only ones in the area) for less than 30 exp. Or have it restricted to us by where we go. Preferably around voidwatch area's or other very important event areas..

I don't really have anymore comments on spirit surge since the Dev's seem to understand our disappointing reactions with it at this rate. So hopefully it gets a decent overhaul.

Also I just want to say again how I despise the fact war/sam's get to use stardiver. Just another reminder how I don't have any real uniqueness other than my healing breath(the only reason to keep the wyvern alive other than staggers)+angon+super jump(PS i don't use it for hate reset).

And yeah i'm getting pretty depressing numbers compared to sam's tachi: shoha's(at least a 500-1k damage difference most of the time even with my gungnir..) I don't need to comment on vsmite and ukko fury's since i'm seeing the same thing. I would give numbers from voidwatch events however that event is sort of broken with its temp items anyway. Let's just say I do less than everyone, including the Requiescat PLD's 500-1k damage difference from my stardiver(but i understand it's a sword with low delay so its understandable).

Economizer

01-15-2012, 03:51 PM

Ophannus

01-15-2012, 07:29 PM

Maybe the longer we keep the same Wyvern alive in a single zone, the EXP bonus HP/Attack/Resistence can occur naturally? Or make gear that enahnces "Call Wyvern" with each piece acting like +250 EXP was gained when we Call Wyvern, the full set could give the full +1000 exp bonus parameters when we wear it while equipping Call Wyvern. Maybe a set effect for 5/5 DRG relic +2?

Ophannus

01-17-2012, 07:39 AM

Yeah SAM and THF have 13 abilities and we have 11, I don't see how we have reached the cap. It feels like we got nothing 96-99 while mages got spells and other jobs received useful trait buffs like another tier of DW or Shield Mastery or MDB. How can they give SAM job abilities almost EVERY update, including JA's for old level caps(Like when they gave SAM Konzen-ittai at level 65 when the level cap was already 90 for several months and when SAM was already very powerful). I hope they decide to give DRG some more job abilities since half of our job abilities are old jumps or relate to our wyvern.

Speaking of Wyverns, they are MASSIVELY useless in Voidwatch outside of procing(pure luck by the way). Do you know how much damage a Dragoon's Wyvern contributes to say a Qilin fight? 0.5% total damage. Why do we even have Wyverns? Just delete wyverns and make us better melee attackers, our wyvern either dies one AoE when Steady Wing is down or we die when Fanatic's Drink is down and lose our Wyvern. When it's alive its ONLY use is for enhanced TP gain for Spirit and Soul Jump because wyverns hit VW mobs for 15-30 damage. Ironically that's the same damage my Wyvern used to deal to KIRIN at 75.

I must commend you SE, you managed to attain balance at 99. By balance I mean, most jobs are exactly as strong at 99, and by extension; useful, as they were at 75. The jobs that were amazing, useful and strong at endgame content at 75 are still the best at 99 end game content while weaker jobs are still not as strong as they could be.

Sotek

01-17-2012, 04:46 PM

How do we have 11 ability recasts? I count 9.
Call Wyvern
Ancient Circle
Jump/Spirit Jump
Spirit Link
High Jump/Soul Jump
Super Jump
Angon
Deep Breathing
Dragon Breaker

2Hrs shouldn't count since they share recasts across all jobs, in which case SAM and THF only have 12 abilities.
Pet commands also shouldn't count, since if they do BST has far more than 12 abilities.

I'd postulate that the developers mean to say that they have reached the 12 ability recast limit, or have just about. At Lv.75 when they must have decided to linked Spirit Jump with Jump, we had 8 abilities, we know they planned on adding 3 new abilities since they did. That would have put us on 11 abilities meaning they'd need to link something to open up more room if they planned to add two new abilities, so perhaps they've had something like a Stance ability in the works for about a year? That's the only explanation I can see, assuming it's not just another bogus excuse or there's something I missed.

I think they should rework some abilities as pet commands, assuming I'm right and they don't impact this recast cap. I really cannot see why Spirit Link and Deep Breathing are job abilities, they really should just be pet commands considering the effect the pet.
Failing that, change Spirit Link into a DNC style ability or again, a Stratagem style ability. In short, make it a single ability recast for all Wyvern related abilities, the name is certainly ambiguous for it.
Give it a 5 minute recast. Make it a Lv.1 DRG unique ability. Stick Call Wyvern, Empathy and Deep Breathing under it. Split the current effects, we can use it to heal the Wyvern at Lv.25, transfer its TP to us at Lv.50 and so on. Even add some new aspects to it. Frees up space for more recasts. Lowers the recast on Call Wyvern. Only issue I can see is if it doesn't work like Stratagems we're at a loss technically, but I wouldn't mind that too much for extra job abilities that I might use. Probably needs more work, but I certainly wouldn't mind Empathy and the TP transfer being separate from the healing aspect.

Arcon

01-17-2012, 04:46 PM

Yeah SAM and THF have 13 abilities and we have 11, [..]

Either you count two-hour abilities (which I don't believe you should), then SAM has 13, THF 14, DRG 12. Without SAM has 12, THF 13, DRG 11. Camate's post was specifically targeted at the recast times for those abilities and THF has two abilities that share the recast-timer (Steal and Despoil), as well two abilities with a shared, but mixed recast timer (Collaborator and Accomplice). If they count that as one it would mean DRG has even less than 12 (9, if I didn't miscount somewhere), since some of their jump-moves share timers. And if you consider that, maybe pet-abilities count as job abilities for this too (to my knowledge they posess all the qualities of regular job abilities, only directed at your pet)? That would possibly bring DRG back to 12, depending on if any of those share their recast timer (I'm not a DRG, so I don't know). If none of them share timers, it should even be at 13. I probably missed something though.

Saiken253

01-18-2012, 04:43 AM

I blame half-assed explanation that he was given to serve to us on a rust-encrusted platter.

SE being lazy SE as usual.

Approve this message if you think Tanaka should be booted from everything involved with electronics.

Spiritreaver

01-18-2012, 05:59 AM

Camate

01-18-2012, 07:11 AM

Greetings :)

Just wanted to give a bit more information in regards to recast timers and some other feedback we have been seeing.

Maximum recast timer slots
The maximum number of recast timers is currently set at 12 recast timers, but we do have plans to increase this number in the future. However, this adjustment requires quite a bit of time and we appreciate your understanding in the meantime while this is worked on.

Interchanging abilities
Next, in regards to the request to remove existing abilities and split recast timers.
It wouldn’t be impossible to remove abilities, but the following must take place in order to make it happen:

Reevaluate parameters and numerical values
If adjusting the numbers is not enough, reevaluate the effects themselves
If the abilities are still unsatisfactory, consider removing abilities

As such, removing an ability would be a last resort (removing abilities has that large of an impact).

Angon
In regards to Angon, the development team is looking into adjustments so that the lowered defense effect stacks with other defense lowering effects.

Call Wyvern Recast Timer
After discussing your feedback for a lower recast timer on Call Wyvern, the development team mentioned that they do not have plans to lower this any further and will be making adjustments to this via abilities and usable items.

Ophannus

01-18-2012, 08:01 AM

All we ask is for one more job ability that simply increases our attack by a moderate amount for a moderate duration at the cost of something like critical defense or critical evasion so that we can overcome the weakness of our multi hit weapon skills like Drakesbane and Pentathrust on high level targets. I understand why there is a penalty for multihit weapon skills because they can be very powerful against lower level targets but understand that Chant du Cygne, Resolution, Raging Rush and many other weapons' multi hit weapon skills do not suffer this penalty. Before the addition of these new level 99 weapon skills, the only weapon skills that had an Attack Penalty were exclusively Penta Thrust and Drakesbane while other damage dealers had not only the absence of Attack Penalties on their weapon skills but actually had Attack Bonuses!

I can't understand why there is "Defense Ignored Varies with TP" is present on Wheeling Thrust and Camlann's Torment when many weapon skills have hidden effect of "Ignore Defense" via a built in Attack Bonus Multiplier. Tachi: Yukikaze/Gekko/Kasha also ignore some defense just like Camlann's Torment and Wheeling Thrust, but it's not variable with TP. So those weapon skills Ignore Defense, deal status ailments such as Blind/Paralyze/Silence with 100% accuracy unless the target is immune AND deals increased damage with TP. Whereas Camlanns' Torment also has Ignore Defense but it's variable with TP which means it's basically the same base damage at all levels of TP.

Remove the attack penalty on Drakesbane and adding a job ability that boosts our attack and I guarantee you, 99% of the DRG community will never ask for anymore adjustments, and I'm willing to bet you we would gladly sacrifice Healing Breath IV for it(because Healing Breath III already heals almost 800 HP with the proper gear and close to 1300 with Deep Breathing which is more than enough for a melee job, compared to Chakra which heals half that and once every 3 minutes compared to 1 minute.) Giving us Healing Breath IV is excessive and is honestly a slap in the face to SCH and RDM who were told they will not be given Cure V(which heals less than Healing Breath III mind you) We don't really need Healing Breath IV, though it's welcomed anyway, but we'd gladly give it up for an Attack boosting job ability or a trait that allows us to occasionally ignore defense that stacks with weapon skills because Healing Breath III is more than sufficient already, healing us or a party member for 800-1300 HP for no cost to MP or enmity for our Wyvern, compared to Cure V which costs significant MP, or waltzes which cost significant TP.

Most Dragoons won't admit it because we don't want any buffs to our job removed but the talk amongst the DRGs is that Healing Breath III is already excessively strong for its cost with Restoring Breath and that Healing Breath IV even if it heals 100 more than Healing Breath III will be very potent for a melee class job and we'd rather the job adustment energies being focused on making Dragoon a better damage dealer rather than a novel DD/Support hybrid. The fact that there's so much gear out there that enhances Healing Breath III further weakens the need for Healing Breath IV. Perhaps if you grant Healing Breath IV a stoneskin effect like Cures under the WHM ability Afflatus Solace, it may have more utility or even a potent but short term Regen but to give us a stronger instant Cure ability when our current one already heals up to half or more of our entire HP seems like too much. Rather have buffs to our attack and weapon skill damage than to heals.

As for splitting Job Abilities, some feedback:

-Combine: Release/Dismiss/Leave/Deactivate into 1 job ability timer and make it universal across all jobs like 2 hour abilities but with differing recasts.

-Combine Sepulcher/Dragon Breaker/Arcane Crest/Hamanoha into one recast.

-All Circles into 1 recast, lower the recast to 3-5 minutes as well.

-Make Deep Breathing and Spirit Link into Pet Commands.

Coldbrand

01-18-2012, 08:43 AM

Hm, so 55% Def down with 2 hour now and Bravura WAR and DRG BFF?

Also I like how I type out a huge ass list of concerns and he still won't reply. Especially about Camlann's Torment.

Granny

01-18-2012, 09:20 AM

Ya, maybe just adjust Camlann's Torment already... the deffence ignored is so low, it's lower than wheeling thrust which is retarded for a emp weaponskill.

Coldbrand

01-18-2012, 10:15 AM

It starts at 10% def ignore when wheeling starts at 50% as far as I now. It should just ignore damage resistance instead of defense, that'd make it unique and useful as Hell. And it just needs to be flat out stronger and scale better.

loldrg

01-19-2012, 12:51 AM

Maybe they can look in to upgrading Gungnir's Defense down proc and upgrade to be more potent or equal to the relic +2 hands hands(25% defense down right?)for the 99 stage 1 version. Would be nice also for that to stack on top of other defense down abilities. Angon + Gungnir = 50% defense down would be... awesome.

Meldity

01-19-2012, 06:55 AM

Angon
In regards to Angon, the development team is looking into adjustments so that the lowered defense effect stacks with other defense lowering effects.

Pretty much the only good update I've seen all 3 weeks.

Hm, so 55% Def down with 2 hour now and Bravura WAR and DRG BFF?

Also I like how I type out a huge ass list of concerns and he still won't reply. Especially about Camlann's Torment.

You're better off using tachi: ageha, because not only is it 30% def down but it lasts 3 minutes. IMO That is pretty cool because it's stronger than angon AND my relic gungnir ws additional effect AND it lasts 3 minutes. Stacks with angon though. Not bravura.

SpankWustler

01-19-2012, 07:07 AM

Not exactly relevant to Dragoon, but I'm happy to hear "This will take some time but we're doing it anyway!" from the Development Bros in general. It's very optimistic compared to the all-too-familiar "This will take some time so we're not doing it!"

Now would be the perfect time to make Angon a unique Defense Down effect so I hope that plan goes through. The Defense Down from Tourbillion is a bit higher than Angon's Defense Down (but not nearly as accurate) and more people are able to make a Gungnir than ever before (and sadly, the Defense Down effect is one of the best things on it).

Granny

01-19-2012, 08:42 PM

Anyone know anything about what Healing Breath4 gives?

Transmit

01-20-2012, 03:37 AM

I don't think it's been added to the test server yet, I was on two nights ago and the DRG changes werent in place just yet.

Ophannus

01-20-2012, 11:53 PM

I'm glad SE is raising our attributes!! I suggested this YEARS ago back in 2004. I could never understand how or why a DRG can 'Jump' so high yet our evasion and parrying were lower than a THF or NIN, heck even a PLD was more adroit than us. I figured if we could Super Jump hundreds of feet in the air, maybe our footwork would be better than a Paladin's to be able to dodge some more hits than them, especially since we wear lighter armor than them too! DRG always should have had higher evasion. It's nice that our Parrying is higher too since we've always had ridiculous amounts of parrying gear available for some reason(Schiltron's Spear, Wyrm Mail, Drachen Gauntlets, etc.) The HP bonus is pretty good too and I'm surprised SE uses the letter-grade shystem, I thought that was a player term.

Lilia

01-21-2012, 12:45 AM

Attribute Ranking Adjustments :
•HP will be raised from C to C+.
•Evasion skill will be raised from C- to B.
•Parrying skill will be raised from C to B-.

:)

Ophannus

01-21-2012, 02:38 AM

I bet we can get SE to change Spirit Surge's STR Bonus to an Attack Bonus since they made numerous adjustments to Tabula Rasa on the test server(Increased its duration like twice and changed Kaustra/Embrava MP, potency,duration)

The STR bonus is decent but on strong mobs which is what we'd be using the ability on, an Attack Bonus would probably be a lot better, maybe 15-20%. This stacked with the defense down from angon or Jump would make up for SE deciding against increasing the duration to 90 seconds. Or even if they opt out of the Attack Bonus, at least let Angon stack with the Defense Down from Spirit Surge Jump.

Camate

01-21-2012, 05:55 AM

Howdy!

Just wanted to pass along some insight into some of the changes that were made to the previously outlined dragoon adjustments.

Cure Breath Adjustments
We’ve decided to remove “Petrification (Lv 99)” from the list of possible status ailments that Cure Breath can remove.

At first, since there were comments asking to increase the status ailments that could be cured with Cure Breath, we were looking into improving the benefits to the party when white mage is your support job; however, at the same time we thought that there are almost no cases that you would not be petrified when the rest of your party was petrified.

After releasing the information and reflecting these changes on the test server, we received the same feedback on the forum and as a result made this decision.

We will be adjusting the priority order of the status ailments that Cure Breath cures at another time, so again, if you have request for this please let us know.
　
　
Dragoon Adjustments
With the shortened recasts on Jump/High Jump/Spirit Jump/Soul Jump, dragoon's damage was increased. Also, with the addition of Healing Breath IV, there will be a good deal of healing power.

However, when activating Healing Breath, you need to stop attacking (mainly auto-attack) and cannot deal damage. In other words, the more frequently you activate Healing Breath, the less damage you deal, so because of this we enhanced dragoons’s defenses.

Dreamin

01-21-2012, 06:23 AM

Cure Breath Adjustments
We’ve decided to remove “Petrification (Lv 99)” from the list of possible status ailments that Cure Breath can remove.

At first, since there were comments asking to increase the status ailments that could be cured with Cure Breath, we were looking into improving the benefits to the party when white mage is your support job; however, at the same time we thought that there are almost no cases that you would not be petrified when the rest of your party was petrified.

After releasing the information and reflecting these changes on the test server, we received the same feedback on the forum and as a result made this decision.

We will be adjusting the priority order of the status ailments that Cure Breath cures at another time, so again, if you have request for this please let us know.
　

I'm confused here. Then what happens in the cases where we are not /WHM??? Maybe we /WAR, /SAM, /BLU, /RDM, etc, etc. What happens if we're fighting off the side and only the tank (or 1 other person) got petrified? Now, having the ability to cure petrifiication would off load that from the mage. Either because we might not have one that has stona or perhaps just so they dont need to cast stona? I'm lost as to why this ailment is removed from the list because of when we /WHM??? Do the DEV expect DRG to be /WHM if they ever use Healing Breath?

I'm beyond confused at that statement you made and the logic makes absolutely no sense at all.

Cowardlybabooon

01-21-2012, 06:37 AM

Its amazing how often peoples first reaction to things on this forum is to be outraged. The job just got a HUGE buff. Just frigging be happy, or at least learn to talk constructively. I know Camate wants to say this but he can't :-)

Thala

01-21-2012, 06:39 AM

The point seems pretty clear to me. Remove Petri would rarely be used. It would not be completely useless, but I can't imagine many cases where it would come up, particularly when I'm DRG/mage. I approve of this change, although it would be nice if we received a different remove breath at 99 to replace it *cough*silence*cough*. For now, I'll take my unexpected defensive skills and be content.

Rezeak

01-21-2012, 07:05 AM

I'm confused here. Then what happens in the cases where we are not /WHM??? Maybe we /WAR, /SAM, /BLU, /RDM, etc, etc. What happens if we're fighting off the side and only the tank (or 1 other person) got petrified? Now, having the ability to cure petrifiication would off load that from the mage. Either because we might not have one that has stona or perhaps just so they dont need to cast stona? I'm lost as to why this ailment is removed from the list because of when we /WHM??? Do the DEV expect DRG to be /WHM if they ever use Healing Breath?

I'm beyond confused at that statement you made and the logic makes absolutely no sense at all.

if ya /war /sam ect you can't use cure breath anyway...

If your /mage and u want to be able to remove others petrify then just sub /SCH or /WHM if it's THAT much of an issue (which it's not)

Camate

01-21-2012, 07:35 AM

Just wanted to note that I edited my post above for clarity.

It's not that each Jump was made more powerful, but the overall damage output of dragoon.

Ophannus

01-21-2012, 07:55 AM

To be honest I can't see how the enmity removal of the target behind us will be useful for High Jump or Super Jump. Usually Dragoons are placed in parties with other damage dealers in voidwatch fights and thusly we're unable to utilize High Jump to say remove hate from a BLM that pulls too much hate since they're in a different party in the alliance. Furthermore the mage will probably be way out of range, unless the distance for high jump is like 15-20'.

Perhaps a implementation of High Jump to make it more worthwhile than before is making it Stun/lower target's accuracy/flash/interrupt spells with greater frequency, or something of the sort. The reason being that since 2005 I have NEVER used Super Jump during Spirit Surge to reduce the enmity of the person behind me in my party, nor have I ever heard of an account of any other DRG doing so either. Even if it removed half of their enmity, it's a very rare condition and is difficult to use with having to align myself with the player who has unwanted hate and the target, especially because when people have hate they tend to run away or kite.

Ophannus

01-21-2012, 08:08 AM

Remove Petrify would allow us to heal Petrification status on other subjobs besides /WHM though! /SCH doesn't learn Stona because it's level 50. I was hoping we would get it so that I can sub RDM or BLU and still remove petrify on others.

Helel

01-21-2012, 08:43 AM

Just gonna post this here since people seem to be focusing on pointless petrify arguments. I'm assuming most people will want to remove doom before any other ailment. As it is right now, it looks like plague/disease will take priority.

Also the enmity removal greatly benefits RNG. I'm not sure why Ophannus is saying that you need to be in the same party when TA+High Jump does work to remove enmity at the current time. Trick attack works on any alliance member. Decoy shot also works on any alliance member. It's quite possible that the enmity removal will not work on alliance members, but it would be rather strange to basically nerf an aspect of DRG that they already currently have with TA.

Kaisha

01-21-2012, 08:49 AM

However, in the window to activate Heal Breath, you need to stop attacking (mainly auto-attack) and cannot deal damage. In other words, the more frequently you activate Heal Breath, the less damage you deal, so because of this we enhanced dragoons’s defenses.
Wait, so we're being penalized for using Healing Breath to help ourselves out when the mages are busy?

I hope it's not too noticeable amongst the increased overall output from the other changes.

Camate

01-21-2012, 08:58 AM

Wait, so we're being penalized for using Healing Breath to help ourselves out when the mages are busy?

I hope it's not too noticeable amongst the increased overall output from the other changes.

Sorry if this was worded weird...

Basically, whenever you are activating Healing Breath (i.e. by using a spell of some sort), you are putting a hold on your damage output. Therefore, the more you use Healing Breath, the less overall damage you will be dealing. This is all that paragraph meant. Not that dragoon's damage was being nerfed because of Healing Breath.

Valkrist

01-21-2012, 09:40 AM

I really don't understand the reasoning of this. DRG is getting improved HP, eva and parry because... They're stopping to have their wyvern heal. I'm a career DRG and I really find this reasoning to not make any sense. DRGs wouldn't be pulling more hate from healing more often, to cause them to need better defenses. Also the amount of time swapping into either HB proccing gear, or HB potency gear doesn't slow you down enough to warrant more defenses. If anything, the DRG's more HP actually just helps the soloing DRG stay alive longer simply because they can HB sooner instead of later. Also DRGs and wyverns don't generate very much hate from HB.

The period of time that a DRG spends using HB really does not significantly drop a DRG's damage output. We're not talking about a DRG putting a stop to everything to cast "Cure IV", but using either Restoring Breath or casting fast spell (and low on MP) like Dia. So the amount of time where the DRG is actually not attacking is usually no longer than half a second at most.

The increased HP, eva and parry really should be there because of the shortened jump recasts, not for the DRG slowing down for a split second to HB. DRGs will be jumping and WSing significantly more in the same period of time as before, causing them to pull more hate. Making it so that they need to have better defenses because their offensive capability has increased, not their healing ability.

SpankWustler

01-21-2012, 10:15 AM

I think their logic is "We want to give Dragoon better innate defenses because it sacrifices some amount of offense for some amount of utility (the amount varying by support job). Defensive abilities are also a form of utility, so we're enhancing those to go along with this theme."

Which makes sense but moves Dragoon more towards Dancer and Blue Mage territory. I think most Dragoon players would prefer MOAR! POWAH! instead.

Ophannus

01-21-2012, 10:19 AM

Hopefully the'll adjust our damage output from weapon skills too. Frustrating seeing a Corsair which is a support-type job doing 2300-2700 damage Last Stands but my Stardiver/Drakesbanes have a hard time breaking 1800.

Rohelius

01-21-2012, 10:30 AM

It does not take half a second to cast a 1 second cast unless you swap for fast cast gear aaaaaand HB gear which would take a toll on haste TP gear and ultimately DPS.

Maybe not by a whole lot but if you want to get technical the statement is true.

Now if this is their logic then i hope they also look into DRK's issue with Casting vs DPS :)

Transmit

01-21-2012, 10:34 AM

I'm loving the extra little defense boosts, all boosts are welcome, though a part of me is worried SE will now say "Well the reason you arent a more damaging job is because you have better defenses than the rest." or something along those lines. Its very obvious that DRG lacks behind the strongest DD's in the game right now, and I think a lot of us would still prefer that gap to be smaller (ways to strength our WS! ways to raise our attack in general!)

Alhanelem

01-21-2012, 10:38 AM

I really don't understand the reasoning of this. DRG is getting improved HP, eva and parry because... They're stopping to have their wyvern heal. I'm a career DRG and I really find this reasoning to not make any sense. So what, are you saying you don't want to have better stats? Who cares what the reasoning is? You're getting more HP, evasion and parry. Why would you complain about that?

The reasoning, to be more specific, is that in order to help you take a little bit less damage so you don't need to waste as much time using healing breath. That combined with a stronger healing breath means less wasted time casting a spell to use it, and therefore less DPS lost. Get it now?

dpdhuntress

01-21-2012, 11:48 AM

Good update but SE fails realize with abyssea and vw the 20 minute recast timer on call wyvern still doesnt cut it even with steady wing and enhanced wyverns defense. Dragoon needs its pet as much as puppetmaster who gets duex ex automata and beastmaster gets a 5 minute recast timer. All these new breaths dont help when your waiting 18 minutes cause a ga/ja spell 1 shot ur wyvern

Also the wyvern breaths proc system in voidwatch is horrid. You get all the right jobs for procs and you see extremely weak to wyvern ice breath and all you do is the same breath over and over. Then your pet dies trying to proc and your timers at 15 minutes............

Valkrist

01-21-2012, 02:31 PM

So what, are you saying you don't want to have better stats? Who cares what the reasoning is? You're getting more HP, evasion and parry. Why would you complain about that?

The reasoning, to be more specific, is that in order to help you take a little bit less damage so you don't need to waste as much time using healing breath. That combined with a stronger healing breath means less wasted time casting a spell to use it, and therefore less DPS lost. Get it now?

Honestly I could careless about more evasion and parry on DRG. You shouldn't be tanking anything. If you pull hate, you need to shed it. If you can't shed it, 10 evasion and 15 parry isn't going to save you. DRG was never and will never be a job that is meant to be tanking on any level. It has always been a job that does great damage, while supporting the rest of the alliance, without holding hate. If you're not holding hate, you're not getting hurt. If you're not getting hurt, then you having higher defensive stats for doing healing breaths makes no sense.

Yes, "moar iz butter" but that's not what I'm addressing. The reasoning of giving DRG more defensive stats because DRG has a better Healing Breath and status curing breaths is pretty flimsy. I'm saying that if DRG's getting better stats so that it takes less damage, it should be because they're better DDs now, not because they can spend half a second to HB and generate hardly any enmity from it.

Vintehin

01-21-2012, 08:06 PM

Hello ! Thanks for this update, this is really great ! Lot of people ask for more damage output and I can really undurstand that. I feel so sad when I remember the lvl 50=>60 period, when I was the most powerfull DD of the party (or alliance sometimes). It's not like that anymore.
We can WS really often. That sure. But our WS are very weak and don't have any debuff capacity like SAM. So yes, we can spam WS, but we still are mediocre DD.
I think the way to improve our WS damage is too make some adjustement on Elemental Breath. Why can we have Elemental breath IV ? Like Healing Breath ? Also the Smiting Breath ability is almost useless. The damage of my Wyvern breath don't worst the time I spend to cast it.
A much stronger Elemental breath could raise the damage output of WS for /sam or /war. And make a stronger difference beetween offensive and defensive Wyvern. (My English is not perfect, I'm sorry for that).

Aarahs

01-21-2012, 10:59 PM

Ophannus

01-22-2012, 07:30 AM

There's a badass animation that's been in the .dat files for about 2 years. The animation looks like Super Jump except more offensive. From the sound effects it sounds like you Jump up in the air like SJ but while in the air you charge up and throw your weapon down like Freya from FFIX. At the end of the animation you hear a sound effect like your character is pulling the lance out of the target.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv13Cm2YCpQ&feature=context&context=C3e5861cADOEgsToPDskIJIj040pV0M_mzGlTVBq_s

Silkavenger

01-22-2012, 12:31 PM

It's been a while since I was drg to VW, but I don't believe wyvern is unsummoned at start, so if it dies, hold resummon. If group doesn't want to wait on recast for next fight, not your fault.

A drg's damage and ability to build TP are severely hampered without the wyvern. Telling us not to summon it is like telling a pld he can't use a shield for the sake of triggering. (I guess it's not much different than a blu having to gut his spell list for the sake of triggers either, but two wrongs don't make a right). Tellings DRGs to "not do their job" is not the answer.

However, I haven't personnaly experienced wyvern survival to be an impossible task in VW. The use of steady wing, spirit link, and (most importantly) temp item pet cures has been sufficient to keep the wyvern alive for 20 minutes. Careful positioning to avoid frontal AoE is important as well. In my case, it's far more common for me to lose the wyvern from my own death than from it getting "one-shotted". You gotta be quick about it of course, but Im as diligent in healing my wyvern as I am in healing myself, perhaps moreso. As such I don't see the need for an adjustment in wyvern survivability or recast. Seems pretty good as is, especially now with spirit link timer halved.

Windwhisper

01-22-2012, 07:57 PM

We’ve decided to remove “Petrification (Lv 99)” from the list of possible status ailments that Cure Breath can remove.

Good decision, because if you are petrified you are unable to act, hence you cant use the breath to remove it from yourself.

Thonuwan

01-23-2012, 02:19 AM

Good decision, because if you are petrified you are unable to act, hence you cant use the breath to remove it from yourself.

Again, you can't cast stona on yourself if petrified either. It would be have worked in a party.

Stos1234

01-24-2012, 03:39 AM

Just curious, is there any possibility of seeing the Rhongomiant being improved at all for Dragoon?

Ophannus

01-24-2012, 06:25 AM

It's probably decent, I imagine that Camlann's probably beats EVERY DRG WS in VW tier 5 and above cuz for the life of me I cannot break 1k on anything above T5.

Stos1234

01-24-2012, 07:15 AM

I barely break 2k with Camlann's, to work so hard for a chloris weapon, then to see lower tier weapons skills for polearm doing more damage. SE def needs to fix this weapon skill. Even when drg is suppose to be one of the great DD's. The ingore def based on tp and the mod is what screw's drg over.

Transmit

01-24-2012, 07:24 AM

How big was the "Ignore Defense" part of Camlans? I thought it was shown to be pretty poor. Because if it is

100%STR 3.8~4.2ftp (depending on gear) vs 60% VIT 3.0 FTP.

It's pretty obvious Stardiver would win no? I can't for the life of me remember how much defense is ignored.

Anyway! VW updates today say mobs AoE damage will be lowered on anyone who isnt their main target, and includes pets! Which is double great news for us.

Stos1234

01-24-2012, 07:31 AM

It's rough to stay in the game and build these weapons when your seeing 300-2k damage for inside abyessa while weapons like victory smite, ukko's fury, blade:hi and fudo breaking over 6k on nearly every weapon skill. SE even fixed quietis from doing 1-2k up to 4-6k. With all these updates of a balanced weapons skills through-out the empyrean weapons. Drg gets no love after its been nerfed and still nerfed since 2002.

Toukai

01-24-2012, 02:01 PM

Just Dropping by to say Thanks for the updates, I'm very excited. As a long time Solo/Duo player, this just gave me another reason to keep working on my Drg. Tomorrow I'm gonna finish +2'ing my boots if i'm lucky.

Camate

01-26-2012, 09:42 AM

Howdy!

I have some comments about dragoon adjustments in regards to some feedback we have received.

Wyverns
In response to the issue of feeling weaker when a wyvern is defeated, we will look into increasing the overall endurance of wyverns. There was also an idea to shorten the recast timer for “Call Wyvern” since wyverns are defeated relatively frequently, but we decided that it would be better if players tried to keep their wyverns alive as long as possible.

Thus, our main objective is to adjust wyverns so that they are not easily defeated in relation to their 20 minute recast time. This will involve adjustments to endurance, healing methods and other tweaks to keep wyverns alive.

Healing methods
We have previously mentioned that we will shorten the recast time for Spirit Link, but we are also looking into some other adjustments. In order to further increase the survival rate of wyverns, we are looking into doubling the healing amount of Spirit Link and adding a regen effect. We have previously stated that we are considering recovery items for wyverns, but we will re-evaluate this idea after the adjustments to Spirit Link.
　
Leveling wyverns
The spec for wyverns leveling up from repeating battles is valid in situations where there are many battles, but is not valid for NM battles and zones where EXP cannot be gained. This may be a modest adjustment, but we are looking into adding the effect “Wyvern levels up with a certain probability” to Empathy.
　
AoE damage
Regarding the issue of wyverns not being able to approach monsters because they are instantly knocked out from AoE attacks, the same can be said for other pets and player characters. This issue is not resolved by simply adjusting characters and pets. Instead, it would be necessary to adjust the damage dealt by AoE attacks. We are currently looking into adjusting certain AoE attacks in Voidwatch.
　
Breath weakness in Voidwatch
We acknowledge that it is difficult to proc weakness due to the fact that it is not possible to select which breath is used. However, we will not make a job adjustment to add abilities just so that it becomes easier to proc weakness. Rather, we look into adjustments to make content more enjoyable.

Also we are not looking into allowing players to select which breath is used. This would go against the concept of pets. Wyverns simply aid player characters in battle, so it should not be possible for players to freely control all aspects of wyverns.
　
Cure Breath
Cure Breath only cures status ailments that affect the character’s ability to battle in the front-line, which is why we did not include silence or mute. It would be convenient if Cure Breath can cure a wider variety of status ailments as an AoE spell, but we decided on the current specs considering its balance with other jobs’ status ailment curing spells and waltzes.
　
　
Jump
Regarding Jump and High Jump, we decided to restrict the adjustments to increasing damage dealt, so we will only be shortening the recast timer for now. (We are scrapping the idea of allowing High Jump to lower hate for the party member closest to the player from behind.)

We want to avoid players only using Spirit Jump and Soul Jump because they have a wyvern. Rather, we would like players to choose between “Jump and High Jump” or “Soul Jump and Spirit Jump” based on the circumstances.

Ophannus

01-26-2012, 10:05 AM

Regarding Jump and High Jump, we decided to restrict the adjustments to increasing damage dealt, so we will only be shortening the recast timer for now. (We are scrapping the idea of allowing High Jump to lower hate for the party member closest to the player from behind.)

Good call. The High Jump hate thing was worthless as it's worthless with Spirit Jump during Spirit Surge.

Not choosing the right breath makes sense as that what separates us from BST/PUP/SMN. Dragoon do not have dominion over their Wyverns like how BSTS charm and enslave their pets, PUP commands their Automaton with the Animator or SMN sacrifice their life force to fulfill a pact. No, the Wyvern accompanies the Dragoon because it wants to, it has a spiritual bond. Even so, the Wyvern seems weak in comparison to other pets both in endurance and damage. Elemental Breaths do 10-100 damage and are often resisted even with Strafe and Dragoon's Earring. As it stands now, on stronger NMs like Voidwatch, Wyverns serve nothing more than a TP-Battery through Spirit/Soul . Their individual hits deal 10-20 damage and are responsible for less than 1% total damage.

Wyverns are weak and Dragoons feel weak because Stardiver and Drakesbane are just weak against strong enemies compared to Tachi:Shoha, Victory Smite, Ukko's Fury,Resolution and other powerful weapon skills. With the new updates, Dragoons will have a fantasic amount of TP but our weapon skills are so weak it we don't feel that strong.

We want to avoid players only using Spirit Jump and Soul Jump because they have a wyvern. Rather, we would like players to choose between “Jump and High Jump” or “Soul Jump and Spirit Jump” based on the circumstances.
This is valid and understandable but perhaps you should look into making Spirit Jump and Soul Jump the more offensive Jumps with their critical hit and extra TP and make Jump and High Jump into defensive style Jumps.

High Jump already sheds hate but perhaps adding a moderately strong Accuracy Down that decays like "Flash" and a Stun effect to Jump that is as potent as the Blue Magic "Sudden Lunge" would be prudent.

Karbuncle

01-26-2012, 10:05 AM

Isn't a Wyvern suppose to be a faithful companion you saved as an Egg and allowed to live.

Why wouldn't it listen to you when you ask it to use a Fire Breath >_>?

Sometimes I can't understand their thought process... Why does it not make sense to be able to tell the Wyvern what Breath to use once per minute. (I mean, on WS, It should be random still, But with the JA... I think we should have the option).

Oh well, Thats my only real complaint ^^

Mizuharu

01-26-2012, 10:06 AM

Spirit/Soul jump onry.

If a DRG is in a mage party, then you're obviously under appreciated.

Thala

01-26-2012, 10:40 AM

Also we are not looking into allowing players to select which breath is used. This would go against the concept of pets. Wyverns simply aid player characters in battle, so it should not be possible for players to freely control all aspects of wyverns.

I'm not sure I understand this. Both BST and SMN, by modern practice, freely control all aspects of their pets. And even with that, if you just adjust Smiting Breath into a shared timer between the various elements, there's still plenty of aspects of the wyverns that are not freely controlled.

Transmit

01-26-2012, 11:09 AM

The DRG updates are really shaping up nicely. I'm happy I'll be able to keep my wyvern upright now even through most of VW spams, and I'm liking the little bit more utility they are giving to the job with hate sheds and higher cures, and of course the increase in TP gain we'll get through jump!

The key issue now which needs addressed for DRG is its lack of attack, we are TP machines, and will be even more when the next update comes, but we lag behind on attack compared to the other 2 handed DD's to actually be able to throw out impressive numbers on WS's and melee. All the other main DD's have access to moves like Berserk, Last Resort, Overwhelm, Double Attack, Attack Bonus VI, Blood Rage etc, and while Angon makes us stronger, it also makes every other DD stronger along with us, so we're never truly on the same footing. I'm not asking for a JA as strong as Berserk, but a 10-15% attack boost or some more offensive JT's would really wrap up a great set of updates for DRG.

A DRK in my LS and myself were comparing attack values the other day

DRK -

Idle - 723
Endark - 793
Last Resort + Endark - 991
Last Resort + Endark + food - 1141

DRG -

Idle - 689
Food - 843
Food + angon - 1053

But of course if we're all fully buffed, and I've just used Angon, the DRK is actually at 1425~ attack which is a HUGE gap. I know DRK's are supposed to have one of the highest attack ratings, but a difference of almost 400 when fully buffed is insane.

Creelo

01-26-2012, 01:04 PM

I'm generally really happy when there's a Breath proc in VW because it is possible to control the Wyvern's breath to a degree with Threnodies and Ninjutsu; I honestly feel that a much of the player base simply doesn't know this.

The only time I get frustrated is when the element that the Wyvern is suppose to give is the element that the VWNM is strong against. An example could be Qilin and Sand Breath, where even with Threnody and Ninjutsu, the Wyvern may still not use Sand Breath because the mob just has too much resistance against Earth.

Silkavenger

01-26-2012, 03:42 PM

Cure Breath
Cure Breath only cures status ailments that affect the character’s ability to battle in the front-line, which is why we did not include silence or mute.

This attitude toward front line jobs is antiquated and irresponsible. NIN PLD and BLU are all commonly accepted front line jobs wich rely heavily on magic use to play effectively. The DRG HIMSELF must play as /Mage in order to even have access to status ailment cure breaths and is thereby also heavily reliant on magic. Back line/front line is not an acceptable excuse for not adding silena breath. Please add silena breath.

Sonshou

01-26-2012, 05:32 PM

　
Leveling wyverns
The spec for wyverns leveling up from repeating battles is valid in situations where there are many battles, but is not valid for NM battles and zones where EXP cannot be gained. This may be a modest adjustment, but we are looking into adding the effect “Wyvern levels up with a certain probability” to Empathy.
　

I like the idea that having empathy can raise the wyvern's level, but not all dragoon choose to merit empathy.

I would suggest to create consumable item that would raise level of wyvern, in addition to allow empathy to level up wyvern.

Also about the healing of wyvern, I still think spirit link is too radical becoz it dealt a huge dmg to dragoon him/herself to heal wyvern regardless the current HP of the wyvern. I would like to see a new ability to transfer HP from dragoon to wyvern slowly and would stop as soon as Wyvern's HP reach maximum.

Ophannus

01-26-2012, 08:57 PM

This attitude toward front line jobs is antiquated and irresponsible. NIN PLD and BLU are all commonly accepted front line jobs wich rely heavily on magic use to play effectively. The DRG HIMSELF must play as /Mage in order to even have access to status ailment cure breaths and is thereby also heavily reliant on magic. Back line/front line is not an acceptable excuse for not adding silena breath. Please add silena breath.

Originally Posted by Camate View Post

Cure Breath
Cure Breath only cures status ailments that affect the character’s ability to battle in the front-line, which is why we did not include silence or mute.

Referring to the Dragoon itself, not others. I think what Camate is trying to say is that by adding Remove Silence, it takes away roles from WHM/DNC/SCH and other jobs that have the ability to remove ailments. Dragoon's /Mage isn't meant to be a main healer but a support healer with the bare minimum status removals that are relevant only for front line melee combatants. A silenced NIN,BLU,PLD can still WS and swing their weapons and aren't in immediate danger of dropping dead so i suppose it's not that necessary.

Ophannus

01-26-2012, 09:23 PM

Update observations.

Job Ability Timers

Jump/Spirit Jump: With merits, recast= 50 seconds.
High/Soul Jump: With merits, recast= 100 seconds(1min, 40 seconds)
Spirit Link: With no merits, recast=90 seconds(1min, 20 seconds)

Jump Range
It's hard to gauge but if I had to guesstimate, range on High Jump, Soul Jump and Super Jump have increased from 10' to 15'. Jump and Spirit Jump have remained unchanged.

Skill Caps
(Assuming 15 HP merits, 4 Parrying merits and 4 Evasion merits.)
HP(Hume):1643~>1708
Evasion Skill: 376~>406
Parrying Skill: 381~>396

Healing Breath IV Tests.

Healing Breath III(Before Update)

WyvernTP:0%
Head:Wyrm Armet+2
Body:Wyvern Mail
Hands:Ostreger Mitts
Ear:Lancer's Earring
Neck:Lancer's Torque
Back:Lancer's Pelerine
Waist:Glassblower's Belt
Legs: Drachen Brais+1
Feet:Wyrm Greaves+2

Total: 748
With Deep Breathing: 1228

Healing Breath IV
WyvernTP:0%

Head:Wyrm Armet+2
Body:Wyvern Mail
Hands:Ostreger Mitts
Ear:Lancer's Earring
Neck:Lancer's Torque
Back:Lancer's Pelerine
Waist:Glassblower's Belt
Legs: Drachen Brais+1
Feet:Wyrm Greaves+2

Total:887
With Deep Breathing: 1472
Wyvern EXP Bonus: 1095
Wyvern EXP Bonus+Deep Breathing:1831

(The animation is very short and less dramatic and a bit underwhelming compared to HBIII)

Ophannus

01-26-2012, 10:29 PM

Overall I'm pleased with these updates. Healing Breath IV is strong but not too strong, though it can be potent given the right scenario(When the Wyvern is leveled up, it's a potent, 0MP Cure VI that makes 0 enmity...poor RDM's..)

The Jump recast are perfect and will lead to more, albeit still relatively weak weapon skills.

The only thing I'm at a loss for is the skill cap adjustments. The Evasion boost was certainly welcome but I fail to see how 15 parrying skill is going to make much of a difference considering how miniscule raising parrying skill does for actual parrying rates in addition to the difficulty of actually capping this skill, especially on a job like Dragoon. Perhaps you may look into removing the parrying bonus and strengthening the HP grade to B or B+ like SAM and WAR and giving us B+ evasion like MNK.

So if I could make suggestions they'd be:
-Increase HP further to B+
-Increase Evasion to B+
-Leave Parrying at C-.
-Increase Attack Power on Drakesbane OR Stardiver(though this might make SAM stronger as a result too), or give DRG another Attack Bonus or two or a new JA that boosts our Attack by a moderate amount so we don't lose out. DRG is the only 2handed melee that subs SAM that doesn't have a native attack boosting JA.(DRK has Last Resort/Endark, WAR has Warcry/Berserk)

-An addition to Steady Wing that gives a moderate chance (5-25%, depending on the Wyvern's HP) to absorb damage,healing the Wyvern, while the stoneskin is in effect. This gives us another chance to heal the Wyvern when it's lower on HP and Spirit Link is down and Steady Wing is up.

-Make Spirit Surge a 90 second duration. It was stated before that because the Haste category was altered to stack with magic and equipment haste that the recast would not be extended beyond 60 seconds(originally slated to be 90 seconds). I'd like to argue that Last Resort with Desperate Blows meritted grants the same potency Haste as Spirit Surge does, except Last Resort lasts 3minutes with a 5 min recast and Spirit Surge currently lasts 60 seconds with a 2 hour recast. Shouldn't the 2hr ability have a little more than 60 second duration compared to a level 15 DRK ability which lasts 3 minutes and grants the same potency to Haste. Or at least leave it at 60 second but grant us a +20% Attack or something during that time so our weapon skills could not only come more often but will be more potent, the +Attack would be more helpful in hard fights than the +STR that Spirit Surge adds.

Ophannus

01-27-2012, 06:14 AM

I'm like 80% sure the current Healing Breath IV animation is the same as Healing Breath I. I'm assuming it's either a glitch or the new animation will be added when the update goes live.

Double checked, the animation is identical.

Silkavenger

01-27-2012, 08:59 AM

Referring to the Dragoon itself, not others. I think what Camate is trying to say is that by adding Remove Silence, it takes away roles from WHM/DNC/SCH and other jobs that have the ability to remove ailments.
By this logic, explain why we get any cure breaths at all? I understand what you're saying in terms of balance. This is the though process behind not giving us AoE cure breaths. But if removing poison or virus from a single target, (limited only to when a DRG/Mage uses a WS), does not negatively affect the role of healing jobs currently, I suggest that silena breath would also not affect them. Wouldn't you agree?

A silenced NIN,BLU,PLD can still WS and swing their weapons and aren't in immediate danger of dropping dead so i suppose it's not that necessary.
Are you kind of kidding here? Heh. Aside from the fact that the same can be said of ailments like virus (not slow) and paralyze, those three jobs specifically use magic as a means to not drop dead. I've never seen a pt leave any of these 3 classes silenced and expect them to participate fully in the battle. To me, ability in the front line means not only offensive ability but defensive as well.

EDIT: oops on slow! Brain malfunction, heh.

Ophannus

01-27-2012, 09:31 AM

I know what you mean, but I'm trying to play devil's advocate here. Also we can't remove slow. Virus isn't deadly but paralyze could be in some situations. I think they were focusing on having DRG remove those "OH SH--" debuffs that are important for melee and let the mages who are outside of AoE range deal with silena.

Silkavenger

01-27-2012, 09:33 AM

Another thought.
RE: Cure breaths are intended to remove ailments from the dragoon himself as a main focus. (meaning I suppose that cure breaths affecting PT members is a kind of neat, tertiary bonus.) as it relates to remove silence.

If the cure breath's main function is to maintain the DRG himself, I suggest it no longer matters whether the DRG/mage is playing in a PT or solo for the sake of discussion. It therefor makes sense to examine a DRGs ability to participate in frontline battle during solo play as well. "Solo" play also includes massive battlefield events such as besieged, campaign or walk of echoes where there are other players around, but the DRG cannot depend on them to know his needs in a dire situation because of the chaotic nature of these events.

If the DRG/Mage is playing solo (or in large scale battles), silence is one of the single most fatal status ailments regarding survival, rivaled perhaps only by paralyze and doom. Paralyze is the ailment disired to be removed the quickest by the player base. I'll bet if we polled every DRG who voiced that opinion they would say "because among other things, paralyze interrupts casting, which stops healing breath, which causes death to me." Silence more completely stops casting, which stops healing breath, which causes death to me, thereby limiting my ability to participate in the front line.

Silkavenger

01-27-2012, 01:29 PM

Sorry for over posting but I just can't stop thinking about how they are not telling us the real reason to not add remove silence. I appreciate you playing devil's advocate, Orphannus, because it really helps my flesh my opinion out on this subject.

You said paralyze can be deadly in some situations. The only time I can imagine paralyze being deadly is one in which a player is tanking and para prevented them from protecting or curing themselves. If this were the case wouldn't silence be just as deadly for a pld nin blu or even a drg/Mage or drk?

You said "OH SH-!" ailments. Don't you think "OH SH-!" when you get silenced on pld or drg/Mage? I do. At least only to the same degree that I think that when I get paralyzed. (and a fair bit more than when I get virused or poisoned, heh)

You said leave silena to the back line who are standing out of range. Couldn't the same be said for paralyze? Paralyze is just detrimental to back line as it is to front. Mages should stand back and take care of paralna for the front line. What in these cases is the difference between remove paralyze and remove silence?

I want SE to answer these questions but I don't think they can.

brayen

01-27-2012, 01:29 PM

Why is it i see so much argument over silence being part of remove breath? echo drops are easily carried, and silence does not hinder a drg's front line capabilities(This means ability to do damage and be face to face with the monster). If anything i would think removing slow would be a better argument, or even bio/dia. I mean it would be light years of a better investment (if we are arguing over extending an ability)

Silkavenger

01-28-2012, 07:12 AM

brayen

01-28-2012, 10:56 AM

Antidotes and holy waters are also easily carried and yet they have chosen to include remove breaths for those ailments. Not a good argument.

A dead drg from inability to heal breath does not do damage, nor does he stand face to face with the monster. This is at least as good a reason to include remove silence as it is to include remove poison, which apparently is totally ok.

you clearly didn't catch my argument it seems. it is not weather or not antidotes can also be bought, hell remove poison from the list if u want doesn't matter, my point was if you are going to make an argument over an easily pointless breath such as silence <or poison> i would suggest making a better case by arguing for remove slow or bio etc, actual status ailments that hinder a drg's melee capabilities as you are still requesting additional work to be put in, might as well make it on the more valuable (melee oriented)stuff: para, slow, bio, plague, doom, blind...etc(yes i know some of these are covered already just categorizing the ones that should be blatantly obvious as better ones), i hope you get my point now, if you still do not then i will not bother to discuss this further.

dpdhuntress

01-28-2012, 12:13 PM

I'm not sure I understand this. Both BST and SMN, by modern practice, freely control all aspects of their pets. And even with that, if you just adjust Smiting Breath into a shared timer between the various elements, there's still plenty of aspects of the wyverns that are not freely controlled.

Couldnt say it any better. It seems when VW first came out smn, pup and bst had the issue of haveing no clue what avatar or pet to use. Now they got it easier. Theres nothing game changing wyvern has a handful of elemental breaths. It makes no sense to create something with a purpose but not allowing it to happen. Like a maze with no exit or sending someone to war with a gun but no bullets. Makes no sense to leave broken. Its laziness

idx1

01-28-2012, 09:14 PM

Not sure if this was mentioned earlier.

But what of the issue of when healing breath is interrupted when the mob targeted by the wyvern dies mid-charge?
Shouldn't it uh, reset the timer back or something.

Same thing with Blood Pacts.
Though I'm not sure if that was fixed with SMN, as I quit that job mainly because of that issue.

Ophannus

01-29-2012, 05:39 AM

The weakness dragoon experience isn't on weak VW like T1-4 stuff like Akvan or Lancing Lemorak, can still get 2kish on them its on relevant level 99 content like Kalasutrax/Ig-Alima and Botolus Rex. Granted Botolus has damage resistence but still in comparison to WAR and SAM, my Stardivers are doing like 20(yes) to 700ish whereas WAR and SAM can still hit over 1.5k, same with Ig-Alima and Kalasutrax.

Dragoon9

01-29-2012, 01:22 PM

honestly as a DRG of 2 straight years (others probably longer) glad they are updating DRG, however, reading this thread and seeing some pointless arguments about the healing breaths, silence is not that deadly to a DRG/mage, you still have the ablilty restoring breath to heal yourself and if you need an extra bit of time you have super jump, another thing is that DRG is suppose to be the most melee accurate job, we hit the enemy more times then any other job, so pretty much we deal just as much damage as a War or Sam, plus we have a plethora of ways to survive in battle if you take the time to think about it. DRG are DD's yet are also damn good at surviving a battle without relying too much on their mage subjob, i honestly don't even use my spells anymore aside from dia to claim a monster.

I'm a DRG/WHM full time and even as that i prove to be a force to be reckoned with with little spell casting and more planning for the battle. its not the stats that make the DRG its how the player uses their job. formula's and equations are interesting to look at but they don't help much in how a player goes about their DRG job with her/his friends or solo, when your in battle your thinking about how to win not numbers.

Rekin

01-29-2012, 11:18 PM

Dragoon9 have you even done VW at all? or fought anything with a shred of decent defense? Dragoon's acc means squat if every melee is capping acc from buffs/temps but the difference between war/drk/sam/mnk and drg is that they have means to increase their attack to actually do worthwhile damage against higher tiered mobs. Dragoon can heal itself and others, but that is a moot point when other jobs can do it more better and with less restrictions. Along with dragoon's inability to increase its own attack is that our primer ws until recently had an attack PENALTY of 20%. Not only does drg not have a means to increase its attack directly like war/drk/sam/mnk but it gets penalties to it's prime ws. With Stardiver now being around we no longer suffer that attack penalty but still fall significantly behind due to lack of attack.

Ex. if a sam and a drg both have 999 attack the sam will easily out parse the drg because first hit of wses have an acc. bonus but also shoha has an attack BONUS making it easier for them to do consistent and good damage. The drg however only has that 999 attack to fall back on for Stardiver which does not get an attack bonus and is 4 hits meaning it has more chances to not reach its full damage potential. If both are reaching acc cap the sam has only a 10% chance of one or both hits of shoha missing but even then it has Zanshin. Drg however has 20% chance of one of the 4 hits to miss and thus loose 25% dmg potential of Stardiver if even 1 hit misses. I say this because Stardiver's fTP is equal to the first hit in all hits unlike most multihit wses.

Dragoon9

01-30-2012, 01:28 AM

i have done VW Rekin no need to get hostile. i am well aware of the numbers against DRG as well as the numbers with DRG, i'm just stating an opinion

Doppel

01-30-2012, 02:20 AM

always thought drg should have a ignore def job trait

Ophannus

01-30-2012, 03:21 AM

*Fires up the Motenten signal* Mot! Can you run your gizmos and mathology and see if a DRG/WAR with a 6 hit build and WS+10% Lance and Misers/Tacticians roll will outparse a DRG/SAM with a 5 hit OAT build with the same rolls in VW? I'm betting that in circumstances where we get 50-60% TP back from Stardiver due to Miser's plus monarch's drink and tact roll that /WAR might pull ahead and the +10% WS damage could theoretically add 150-230+ damage to Stardiver. Hasso's bonus would be less noticable if our WS:Regular hit ratio is skewed heavily in favor of WS due to craptons of SaveTP.
Save TP+25 on XI Roll and +20 from Dicipline. Should be ~60-65ish back on Stardiver with on average 7 regain from Monarchs+XI Tact roll(add 2 for total of 9 with 2nd atmacite being the +2 Regain one)

Sixgill: DMG126 Delay492 WS Damage+10%
Chauve-Souris: DMG110 Delay507 Occasionally Attacks Twice

I'm willing to bet that under the conditions of temp items, atmacite and good COR rolls, DRG/WAR will outparse DRG/SAM due to having Berserk(which is what we really need) and that hasso/sekkanoki/meditate do less in these short 5-6min fights than Berserk/Warcry/Aggressor/+10% DA might

Silkavenger

01-31-2012, 01:11 PM

@orphannus I was thinking the same thing myself. When TP and damage mitigation items are overflowing the benefits of /Sam are really diminished. I hate to drop to a 6-hit, but I'm pretty sure under the circumstances /war is gonna do a lot better. I'll give it a go next time.

Rekin

02-04-2012, 11:23 PM

always thought drg should have a ignore def job trait

I wished, instead we have 2 wses that ignore a % of defense, however the first one is superior to the 2nd in that first, its free, wheeling thrust is obtained with just polearm skill, then its followed by the fact it ignores a higher amount of defense at 100% tp and has a 50% str mod making it easy to gear and 1.75 ftp. Camlann's however is behind in that it ignores a great deal less def % at 100% roughly 33% and has a mod of 60% vit and ftp of 3.0. Normally on a job with JAs to pump its atk up camlann's wouldn't be so bad, however drg doesn't have that and now it has to give up some atk and str to make camlann's not suck. The closest thing drg has to what you've mentioned is perhaps Angon but that means sacrificing a merit group 2 option granted that our merit 2 options aren't all that great.

loldrg

02-10-2012, 10:47 PM

Hey Camate, any dev updates on whether or not they will let Gungnir's Defense Down stack with Agnon?

Meldity

02-14-2012, 09:56 AM

I don't know if you devs read about this or not but:

Can we get more options to get exp for our wyvern? Specifically in really important events? (voidwatch, etc)

Camate

02-14-2012, 10:12 AM

Greetings!

Apologies that this announcement is being made post-version update.

In regards to the effect that will reduce the enmity of the closest party member behind you, which was planned for this version update, we have received a lot of comments stating that it is not very convenient and we have decided to push this back. We would like to receive a bit more feedback from both dragoons as well as players who use other jobs.

Similar to the above, we would also like to hear the opinions of more players on the topic of priority for Cure Breath.

Originally, the status ailment that would be healed was selected based on the order of the level it was learned. As we are thinking of adjusting the priority of this, if there are any particular status effects which you would like to be prioritized for healing, please share your thoughts.

• Paralyzed
• Curse & Doom
• Disease & Plague
• Blind
• Poison

Example of a post
----------------------------
1. Paralyzed
2. Disease & Plague
3. Curse & Doom
4. Blind
5. Poison
----------------------------

Yugl

02-14-2012, 10:25 AM

1. Paralyze
2. Zombie
2. Plague
4. Poison
5. Blind

Ophannus

02-14-2012, 10:29 AM

There's nothing really that can be added to Super Jump. Making it debuff the target will make it claim mobs whereas before it wouldn't. Perhaps some kind of aftermath-like effect or self buff maybe. I'd prefer a new level 99 Jump shared timer with Super Jump that deals high damage and gives 4x TP or something.

Something like this Camate!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv13Cm2YCpQ

Watch the animation and lsiten close to the sound effect. That's clearly an alternate version of Super Jump where we jump up and throw our lance down at the target. No mob in the game uses it, so it must be that you guys are working on a Spirit/Soul Jump version of Super Jump!!

Qtipus

02-14-2012, 11:12 AM

1. Paralyzed
2. Disease & Plague
3. Curse & Doom
4. Blind
5. Poison

Not entirely sure where anyone gets the notion of inconvenience re: Super Jump enmity removal. I generally viewed that as a bonus and situational at best. Situational positioning isn't that uncommon and any more convenient.

Duzell

02-14-2012, 11:13 AM

1. Curse & Doom (what is the point of removing any other status if you will be dead in less than 10 seconds)
2. Paralyzed
3. Disease & Plague
4. Poison
5. Blind

Mizuharu

02-14-2012, 01:17 PM

1. curse/doom (I agree with Duzell on this)
2. Paralyze
3. Disease/Plauge
4. Poison
5. Blind (we have Acc bonus 3 and so much accuracy gear, this should be the lowest priority.)

Helel

02-14-2012, 03:17 PM

Oh thank god, finally removed my paralysis so I can do some jumps--dead. Why would doom not be #1 priority lol?

hiko

02-14-2012, 09:13 PM

because if you are paraed you cant use holy waters and doom removal is not 100%

Duzell

02-14-2012, 09:52 PM

because if you are paraed you cant use holy waters and doom removal is not 100%

Either 1 of 2 situations will play out if that is the case: either (a) its a weak para and you can easily get of 50% of your items and spells, so cast dia and spam hallowed water; or (b) its a strong para and its unlikely you will get anything off and your dead without outside help either way.

Babekeke

02-15-2012, 02:41 AM

Either 1 of 2 situations will play out if that is the case: either (a) its a weak para and you can easily get of 50% of your items and spells, so cast dia and spam hallowed water; or (b) its a strong para and its unlikely you will get anything off and your dead without outside help either way.

Even the strongest of strong paralyze effects doesn't prevent you from weaponskilling, which is what's required to trigger cure breath.

idx1

02-15-2012, 03:33 AM

because if you are paraed you cant use holy waters and doom removal is not 100%

T1 ZNM Chamrosh Dragoon's earring Do you need it?

I probably will never have a drg high enough to use Cure breath myself but.

1. Doom/Curse. (Obvious)
2. Paralysis
3. Plague/Disease
4. Blind if acc down effect is 'significant' in duration and potency. (-30~ acc for 3-5min)
4. Poison if poison dmg per tick takes one to orange/red hp, or is 'significant' (30~ + hp a tick)
5. Either Blind or Poison depending on rules above.

Aana

02-15-2012, 04:11 AM

1. Curse & Doom
2. Paralyzed
3. Disease & Plague
4. Poison
5. Blind

*Doom is rather obviously a top priority. Deathclock. Should probably deal with that 1st :P
*Paralyze is so frustrating it goes without saying. If you are stacked with enfeebles, the inability to continue getting TP via melee hits+Jumps eaten by paralyze means you cant remove the rest of your enfeebles.
*Plague is similar in that it slows down your WS so you cant get TP to remove more stuff.
*Poison, not 'usually' life or death.
*lolBlind.

Just use common sense. If you are a melee and suddenly have all doom/plague/para/poison/blind on you what order would you want your whm to get rid of them in to get you back in shape the fastest? DOOOOM>Para>Plauge>Poison>lolBlind.

Sure once in a blue moon poison is really crazy 100tic stuff, but what are the chances that you will ALSO be plagued/paralyzed on those rare mobs? (Crab NMs, uranites). Virtually none.

Transmit

02-15-2012, 06:22 AM

1. Curse / Doom
2. Paraylze
3. Plague / Disease
4. Blind
5. Poison

Doppel

02-15-2012, 06:22 AM

kinda wish slow was on that list

Juilan

02-15-2012, 07:36 AM

Greetings!
Originally, the status ailment that would be healed was selected based on the order of the level it was learned. As we are thinking of adjusting the priority of this, if there are any particular status effects which you would like to be prioritized for healing, please share your thoughts.

1)Cure Doom(100%)
2)Paralyze
3)Viruna
4)Cursna
5)Blind

Main reason for Doom on most posts is... of all the effects, that one will actually kill you... everything else becomes just a mild announce in comparison.

100% doom removal is because you can do more than 10 cursnas in the time it takes to reuse this, wouldnt change the balance, but might make drg a more desirable job... since one sure thing is better than failing the tank(s) to death

Meldity

02-15-2012, 12:59 PM

I don't know if you devs read about this or not but:

Can we get more options to get exp for our wyvern? Specifically in really important events? (voidwatch, etc)

Went to VW today and noticed that wyverns get exp from VW now, cool !

..however it only levels up once each fight and doesn't reach the cap from the first fight. :mad:

Ophannus

02-15-2012, 01:19 PM

^This was already the case. Not that it matters since the level up only really boosts acc/att/breath potency. It may effect resistance to elements too but I don't believe it adds any PDT/MDT or MDB/Defense.

Yugl

02-15-2012, 08:46 PM

T1 ZNM Chamrosh Dragoon's earring Do you need it?

I probably will never have a drg high enough to use Cure breath myself but.

The earring affects elemental breaths, not necessarily status removal breaths (Nothing to test this on until now and I doubt people want to waste their time doing so). If you plan on fighting a mob with doom, you should have holy water if you qualify as a "good player."

Though I hate binary options, it comes down to:
1. Prioritize doom: Have one chance at removal (Not a 100% removal as they mentioned) at the risk of paralyzing subsequent holy water spam.
2. Prioritize paralyze: Opportunity to spam holy waters without interference

Ophannus

02-17-2012, 04:01 AM

For Merit group2 adjustments, please consider:

Empathy: Please let this transfer up to 5 statuses to the Wyvern regardless of how many merits are in it. Addional merits can either:1) enhance the regen effect or regen duration of Spirit Link or 2)increase duration of buffs given to the wyvern.

Deep Breathing: In line with the other Job Abilities that utilize merit points to decrease recast time, Deep Breathing's recast should be reduced to 5 minutes. Further merits should grant a 'Stoneskin' effect to the target based on the amount of HP healed from Healing Breath. This would be similar in effect to a Cure spell casted on a player while under the effect if Afflatus:Solace. For Elemental Breaths, the target could sustain increased damage towards the matching element of the elemental breath for a short period of time similar to the effect of Quickdraw with Navarch's bottes +2.

Meldity

02-17-2012, 05:58 AM

Hey guys, important question here:
Does cure potency received gear effect heal breaths?

edit: it doesnt'

Duzell

02-17-2012, 06:26 AM

Got to love how the american players pretty much unanimusly said doom should be #1 priority for status removal and they spit in our face and make it #3. Nice Trolling SE why bother even asking english players opionons when the dev team only obeys the japanese boards...

Duzell

02-17-2012, 06:39 AM

The earring affects elemental breaths, not necessarily status removal breaths (Nothing to test this on until now and I doubt people want to waste their time doing so). If you plan on fighting a mob with doom, you should have holy water if you qualify as a "good player."

Though I hate binary options, it comes down to:
1. Prioritize doom: Have one chance at removal (Not a 100% removal as they mentioned) at the risk of paralyzing subsequent holy water spam.
2. Prioritize paralyze: Opportunity to spam holy waters without interference

Sorry double post, but if your really a "good" player you would find someone who leveled alchemy and be spamming Hallowed waters, which have a much higher rate of removing doom.

Transmit

02-17-2012, 06:55 AM

Ophannus

02-17-2012, 07:08 AM

They said they only intended to alter merit abilities that have "Recast varies with Merit Points"

Silkavenger

02-17-2012, 10:47 AM

Deep breathing is recast varies, so it's at least relevant to discuss that one. I support cure skin/elem debuff on deep breathing!

Also before getting toooooo upset about the devs weighting JP opinion over NA opinion check the census and see how many times more of them there are of us. It's less likely that they are racially overconsidered and more likely that they just out-vote us.

Transmit

02-17-2012, 07:29 PM

They said they only intended to alter merit abilities that have "Recast varies with Merit Points"

So no Empathy changes will come then either? Hopefully SE rethinks that.

Yugl

02-20-2012, 01:13 PM

Sorry double post, but if your really a "good" player you would find someone who leveled alchemy and be spamming Hallowed waters, which have a much higher rate of removing doom.

Not many, if any, Alchemists have the KI needed to make the item and you can only be a good player for yourself.

Aana

02-22-2012, 03:05 AM

The funny thing is all this hubbub about the priority is really very moot. When was the last time you were both paralyzed AND doomed AND you were drg/mage?

Go on ill wait.

It may happen once in a characters life. Its really not that big a deal at all. The most important thing is that it removes these new things at all. The order really doesnt mean jack tbh.

Also, i agree that Deep breathing needs some re-visiting via merit redo. Id like the normal "recast reudced to 5min at all levels. Each merit adds (some effect)"

Maybe something as simple as each merit removes one status effect on the target of next healing breath (up to 5) or adds the appropriate element enfeeble based on the element used in offensive breath (ice=paralyze, wind=silence or grav, earth=slow etc).

I dunno how enhanced merits would increase the offense breath in that scenario, but you see where im going with it. Recast 5 min. Merits give some additional effect of some type to next offense/healing breath.

Camate

02-22-2012, 05:16 AM

Greetings.

There have been some requests for a bit more information in regards to the adjustments. While this content is still being looked into, I’d like to give you an overview of the current status and values.

• Super Jump enmity reduction while under the effects of Spirit Surge
The closest party member behind the dragoon will have their enmity reduced to the lowest value
※Even if the below adjustments to Super Jump are put off, adjustments will still be made to Super Jump while under the effects of Spirit Surge.
　
• Super Jump will reduce enmity of closest party member behind the dragoon
The closest party member behind the dragoon will have their enmity reduced by half.
※Currently planning to put this on hold. If we decide to put this off, we will be proceeding with adjustments on the basis that this will not be implemented.
　
• Spirit Link granting Regen to the Wyvern
HP recovered by Regen: Player’s level divided by 3, every 3 seconds
Regen effect duration: 90 sec.
※Example: If you are level 99, 33/3 sec. is thirty ticks amounting to 990 HP recovered.

Ophannus

02-22-2012, 06:16 AM

That's a pretty potent Regen and would definitely be welcomed. I'm indifferent about the Super Jump adjustment because it would not be used very often and is hard to use in general since Dragoons are often not in the same party in an alliance as say a White Mage or Black Mage which incurs a lot of enmity. Perhaps SE can look into giving Super Jump a different property, maybe a Pax effect for the Dragoon proportionate to how much enmity was removed.

Could increasing the duration of Spirit Surge be reviewed once more? You guys said it would not be increased due to the Haste category change of the effect. I would like to remind the developers that Last Resort with Desperate Blows fully merited provides a Dark Knight with the same Haste boost that Spirit Surge does, but Last Resort also lasts for 3 minutes with a 5 minute recast and Spirit Surge lasts 60 seconds with a 2 hour recast. The 25% Attack Bonus provided by Last Resort also lends more to increase a Dark Knight's damage than Spirit Surge's +15-20 STR boost does for the Dragoon, especially with weapon skills like Drakesbane which have a massive penalty to Attack power.

SpankWustler

02-22-2012, 08:52 AM

The potential change to Super Jump doesn't sound very useful outside of removing enmity from a Ranger or Corsair. It might have a little more utility after the changes to Cures III and IV lead to more enmity from them over less time?

　
Example: If you are level 99, 33/3 sec. is thirty ticks amounting to 990 HP recovered.

That's a very solid Regen for a very solid duration. I'm surprised by how much longer it lasts compared to the new Spirit Link recast, but it's better that way. No urge to use Spirit Link just to keep the Regen up.

I guess the Development Bros were serious when they said they wanted to work on Wyvern survivability. Amnesia on the Dragoon is still the little drachen-bro's Achilles's heel but a lot is changing otherwise.

dragmagi

02-22-2012, 01:41 PM

Question, Is it just me or did dmg from Soul jump with af3 legs drop down by half roughly from last update?

Ophannus

02-22-2012, 03:29 PM

Just you. Legs provide +10% critical hit damage which enhances both Spirit and Soul Jump. The "Enhances Soul Jump effect" on Lancer's Cuissots+2 are completely unknown just as the "Enhances Addendum effect" on Savant's Gown+2 and "Enhances Enmity Douse" effect on Goetia Gloves+2. These have been shown not to affect anything at all and the pieces and don't reduce enmity further through solid testing. Unless Camate can elucidate this for us. I suspect all three of these AF3+2 pieces have similar effects because Camate mentioned months ago that the SCH piece is related to enmity somehow and Soul Jump and Enmity Douse affect Enmity directly, so all three must have a similar effect. I wish he would tell us though, these are the only 3 pieces of AF3 which we don't have any clue what they do to those Job Abilities more than a year later. Hope they don't become like Almighty Apkallu which we never found the pop conditions for after 5 years.

Camate

03-23-2012, 06:10 AM

Greetings!

In the upcoming version update we will be making the aforementioned dragoon adjustment which can be found here:[dev1090] Job Adjustments: Dragoon (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/20941-dev1090-Job-Adjustments-Dragoon)

However, as a result of the feedback we received, we have decided to push back the enmity reduction for party members standing behind the dragoon when using Super Jump.

Additionally, due to the time it took for Meteor adjustments, the priority for status ailment cures from wyvern’s breath will also be pushed back.

We will do our best after the version update to get it ready for implementation.

Phogg

03-23-2012, 08:34 AM

Running on fumes much? Pretty silly that anything, let alone multiple things are not implemented in an already underwhelming update because of one single spell.

lol

Really starting to wonder where my monthly subscription is actually being diverted too, because it sure doesn't seem to be supporting a proper dev team.

Luvbunny

03-23-2012, 09:48 AM

FF14 Version 2.0.. thats what happened lol. I bet that launch will be delayed too hah! Sad to see more and more underwhelming updates to otherwise this amazingly addictive game.

Ophannus

03-23-2012, 10:28 AM

Give us an attack boost JA that has a shared timer with a shared timer with Ancient Circle or something!

Transmit

03-23-2012, 06:45 PM

Wasn't the super jump enmity reduction already delayed from the LAST version update? You really can't use meteor as an excuse, thats pathetic.

Divinius

03-24-2012, 03:06 AM

Sometimes I wonder if the "FFXI Dev Team" is really just one guy that they moved down to Storage Room B.

FrankReynolds

03-24-2012, 04:51 AM

Sometimes I wonder if the "FFXI Dev Team" is really just one guy that they moved down to Storage Room B.
Its actually being developed by this guy:
http://blogs.reuters.com/fullfocus/files/2012/03/07EditorsChoiceRTR2ZQ4S.jpg

ManaKing

03-25-2012, 06:08 AM

Would be nice if SE expressed any real interest in their MMO that actually succeeded. The last couple of years have had hoards of failed MMOs, FFXIV included, which is one of the primary reasons that FFXI is still played as much as it is. I really think SE is pushing it. It really is too bad that they can't get their shit together when Diablo 3 is actually around the corner.

I wonder how long it will take for me to want to come back and fight all the bosses that I've already fought in content that actually had a story line attached to it. Hmmmm maybe never?

Transmit

04-18-2012, 09:00 PM

Deep Breathing
Recast time reduced from fifteen minutes to five.
Additional merit points no longer reduce casting time, but instead further enhance wyvern breath effects.

Empathy
Now also increases the wyvern's level at a constant rate.
Additional merit points no longer simply increase the number of beneficial status effects to the wyvern granted by Spirit Link, but also increase the rate at which the wyvern gains experience.

Restoring Breath adjustments
The priority by which status ailments are cured will be adjusted as follows:
　
(Pre-Adjustment)
1. Disease/Plague
2. Curse/Bane/Doom
3. Paralysis
4. Blindness
5. Poison

(Post-Adjustment)
1. Paralysis
2. Curse/Bane/Doom
3. Disease/Plague
4. Blindness
5. Poison

Empathy Merits seem interesting. I hope Angon getting moved to its own unique debuff is still on the cards somewhere though.

Kelvinclein

04-20-2012, 05:02 PM

Lower the damn Call Wyvern Recast once and for all.... And fix Relic WS and aftermath, it's ridiculously gimped compared to other relics.....................

And for god sakes, stop making drg's soloing rely only on af1 / af2 swap... need to remove that swap thing, or either fix it, because sometimes it ain't working right.

Bayohne

04-21-2012, 05:02 AM

Empathy Merits seem interesting. I hope Angon getting moved to its own unique debuff is still on the cards somewhere though.

It is and we apologize for the wait for this! Overall, these adjustments were mainly focused on Group 2-related merits and ones with "reducing their time" as part of the merit feature. We haven't forgotten about Angon!

Anucris

04-21-2012, 01:34 PM

i do wish the augment on relic +2 had been initiates HB at 60% hp or something.

Anucris

04-21-2012, 04:30 PM

so by enhancing wyvern breath effects, do they mean maybe adding an enfeeble finally? or simply boosting deep breathing? cause it really don't need boosted for more cure power.

Ophannus

04-22-2012, 04:01 AM

Can already heal at 60% if you macro HP gear into your healing breath macro. Actually can come close to 65-70% if you have enough +HP.

Anucris

04-22-2012, 06:18 AM

yeah i read this on your other post.. this would make it more like 70% then, but we already gear swap sooo much stuff for a HB.. its just annoying. and i wanted to ask you on the other thread how cruor buff's work. is it a %.. and if so can i put on my meridian ring...get buffs, then take it off and only lose the 90 hp but not the 27 or so from the added % it would have given me... and how much -DT gear do u use when soloing big NM's on drg?

Anucris

04-22-2012, 06:20 AM

point was though.. wouldnt it be better than buffing deep breathing which already does like 1600+ depending on wyv lvl ups. i dunno idrc. im happy with drg for the most part right now it just seemed like they couldnt come up with something better is all. kinda like when they just gave really long timers to merit down on group 2 merits.

Silkavenger

05-11-2012, 06:58 PM

.. and how much -DT gear do u use when soloing big NM's on drg?

In my case: -36%DT, -14%PDT. So -50%DT with shell II~V. It helps.

Tanama

01-26-2013, 11:53 AM

Greetings :)

Angon
In regards to Angon, the development team is looking into adjustments so that the lowered defense effect stacks with other defense lowering effects.
We are still eagerly waiting for this one.

Horndawg

01-27-2013, 01:09 AM

They need to take off the tp usesage while kneeling to heal

Mirage

01-27-2013, 01:10 AM

sure, why why do you bring this up in a dragoon thread?

Horndawg

01-27-2013, 01:21 AM

Mirage

01-27-2013, 01:41 AM

Everyone needs their TP. This isn't a DRG-specific problem, and not even a problem at all in the majority of cases where DRG is currently struggling. You won't see a melee /heal for hp in an endgame event.

Additionally, in signet areas, we don't even lose TP anymore, and in abyssea, who needs to /heal there?

Ophannus

01-27-2013, 08:06 AM

Use restoring breath lol

ThaiChi

01-29-2013, 03:52 AM

cause I play as dragoon and I mostly play solo and since I've been playing since they first came out with ffxi it's one of the things I wish they would leave alone cause as a dragoon you need your tp ... or I at least think so

I hope you're "solo" doesn't mean DRG/DNC. Because if it is, (not to sound too condescending) you should really look into learning how to use your Artifact head and /mage. Only time I worry about TP when soloing is when I need my wyvern to remove paralyze. While I haven't actually done /BLU intensively since the addition of soul and spirit jumps, /SAM i get nearly enough TP from those two jumps in succession to weaponskill back to back. DRG is rarely hurting for TP if you ask me.

Mirage

01-29-2013, 04:02 AM

Gotta agree with ThaiChi on this.

SpankWustler

02-02-2013, 04:41 AM

cause I play as dragoon and I mostly play solo and since I've been playing since they first came out with ffxi it's one of the things I wish they would leave alone cause as a dragoon you need your tp ... or I at least think so

I'm going to go with an alternative interpretation of this post:

Horndawg often goes to the bathroom while his character is resting and a surprisingly stealthy Crohn's-afflicted neighbor is stealing his toilet paper while he plays FFXI. Playing Dragoon gives Horndawg the freedom to eat messier foods such as chili-dogs with extra hot sauce, while mage jobs require too much mashing of too many buttons to allow such messy comestibles. Thus, Horndawg really needs that missing toilet paper when he plays Dragoon.

Babekeke

02-03-2013, 07:13 PM

Spank, did you miss your last shrink appointment again? Remember to keep taking those tablets!

Antanias

03-25-2013, 02:17 AM

When can we have the Angon's unique debuff that was talked about long ago?

Horadrim

03-26-2013, 06:54 AM

When can we have the Angon's unique debuff that was talked about long ago?

SE is a drunk parent promising his kid a "Real life" race car if he doesn't tell mommy how late daddy got home. They don't remember they even mentioned it, and if you remind them they'll just laugh and go back to reading the paper going "Haha, that's ridiculous."

Examples: Cait Sith, Atomos, PUP attachments.

Lugado

04-12-2013, 09:51 AM

Camate is there any of the drg updates we've been patiently awaiting planned on going live with the end of month update?

Ophannus

04-17-2013, 12:26 AM

Umichi

04-17-2013, 06:43 AM

wow.... jusst wow.....

Horadrim

04-19-2013, 06:39 AM

When an NA player makes a bug report, nobody cares. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/30552-Lancer-Cuissots-2) When a JP makes the same bug report, the lead producer answers it. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/32346-%EF%BC%AC%EF%BC%A3%E3%82%AD%E3%83%A5%E3%82%A4%E3%82%BD%E3%83%BC%E3%81%AE%E3%82%BD%E3%82%A6%E3%83%AB%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A3%E3%83%B3%E3%83%97%E5%8A%B9%E6%9E%9C%E3%82%A2%E3%83%83%E3%83%97%E3%81%8C%E6%A9%9F%E8%83%BD%E3%81%97%E3%81%A6%E3%81%84%E3%81%AA%E3%81%84%EF%BC%9F?p=420600&viewfull=1#post420600)

I even posted about the issue 2 years ago and no response. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/5873-Soul-Jump-and-Lancer-s-Cuissots-2-unknown-effect)

Probably has more to do with the fact that the DEVs are all Japanese, living in Japan, and speak Japanese. I can't imagine that the World of Warcraft or Guild Wars 2 team is constantly aware of every single little issue that comes from their non-English speaking communities. Between translation and compiling of requests, the infinite number of asinine and unproductive reports they likely get, and the countless hours of higher priority nonsense they have to deal with can clog the system.

When its your language, it makes it far more likely for you to happen upon the information while drunk on a sunday after noon going "Lol, I wonder what my players are talking about."

detlef

04-19-2013, 07:08 AM

Regardless, it's still their job to sort through the bug reports, determine what is worth investigating, and then put fixes into motion. A legitimate bug should taken seriously no matter who reports it. That's what the bug forum is for.

FrankReynolds

04-19-2013, 11:18 AM

If you actually look through the English forums, there are usually only a few threads being commented on / posted per day. Most of which revolve around the same or similar topics. It really isn't that hard to keep track of. I do it for free in my spare time every day. People who get paid to do it have no excuse.

Rekin

04-30-2013, 03:26 PM

So with the release of the update and the showing of perhaps what will become normal in terms of weapon upgrades/etc. Will our wyverns be adjusted in any way to progress in a similar way? Perhaps can they be changed to have half the base dmg of our polearm? would that be too much to ask? or should we expect good ol wyverns to exist as a weak, undefendable(I mean in a realistic sense in endgame events), and pathetic with this new approach on FF11? As it stands wyverns are more of a hinderance to drgs in endgame than boons.

Ophannus

08-19-2013, 12:54 PM

Angon
In regards to Angon, the development team is looking into adjustments so that the lowered defense effect stacks with other defense lowering effects.

Call Wyvern Recast Timer
After discussing your feedback for a lower recast timer on Call Wyvern, the development team mentioned that they do not have plans to lower this any further and will be making adjustments to this via abilities and usable items.

Any updates on these?

Tohihroyu

08-19-2013, 06:20 PM

It'll more then likely be yet another "we never promised you this." I don't count on anything happening to lower the call wyvren timer.

Ophannus

08-21-2013, 07:48 AM

They lowered 2hrs by a full hour and plan on reducing to 30min via merits. They could spare a 5-10min reduction to Call Wyvern.

loldrg

08-21-2013, 10:25 PM

Ophannus

08-22-2013, 06:02 AM

Defense Down hardly means much these days with 99 Dura BRDs, CORs and GEOs. Not to mention most DDs have 1200 attack without buffs, just in their TP gear with food.

Umichi

08-22-2013, 04:39 PM

Hey how about making Gungnir useful and its lowered defense effect greater than that of a merit ability! Hmmm.. maybe how Aegis can take a PLD past the Magic Damage cap, maybe Gungnir can actually be special and unique and wait for it..... USEFUL!

Meh who are we kidding, back to reality.

they already are working on it and have posted reletively recently about such a topic not specifically gungnir but with most def downs stacking

Ophannus

09-07-2013, 01:51 AM

I hope we'll see a more direct increase to Wyvern Breath. They have over the years given us things like Lancer's Torque and AF2+2 Armet which can both be equipped immediately after a WS to get a small bonus to breaths. Additionally we have the Empathy bonus and Item Level main hand bonuses that increase a Wyvern's breath potency indirectly through increasing its Max HP.

The thing is, even with a maximum parameter boost from Empathy and having Upukirex equipped, Breath damage is still very unverwhelming, especially against NMs. I recognize that Breaths are 'free' and can be used as often as a Dragoon uses a weapon skill(which can be several times per minute). Unfortunately, Dragoon unlike other melee jobs cannot increase our WS damage further because we do not have special abilities like Soul Eater or traits like Overwhelm.

Having said all that, can we expect an increase to Wyvern breath damage? Healing Breath has increased exponentially from 75 cap, use to heal 400ish, now heals over 1.2k. Wyvern Breath is still ~350-450 but only when not resisted or if the NM has no Breath Damage Taken-% which most seem to have. Against Delve NMs, breaths usually hit for 110-200ish and against Delve Bosses, usually double digits in the 30-60 range.

I'm hopeful that Wyverns could obtain a higher tier version of their breaths i.e Flame Breath II, Gust Breath II that are not only boast higher accuracy but the damage formula incorporates a higher % of the Wyvern's HP(or make it based on Max Hp instead of Current HP). It's often deterimental to Dragoon's damage when we have to keep the Wyvern at near to full HP to keep the Breath damage at its best since the damage formula is based on current HP. If you were to make it a bit stronger, more accurate and based on max HP like Healing Breath, it will take some stress off players to keep our Wyvern at full HP and our damage won't decrease just because our wyvern has taken damage(especially true during hard fights).

I'd like to see tier2 version of Elemental Breaths, this would make using Smiting Breath a bit less pointless, as in the time it takes to use a 332 damage Smiting Breath(2-3 second delay) I could have swung my lance for 600-700 damage several times and gained a lot of TP.

An increase in Breath damage would help close the gap between Dragoon and other melee jobs that have powerful abilities/traits that enhance their attack, crit and WS potency i.e Souleater/Berserk/Bloodrage/Scarlet Delirium/Restraint/Hagakure