thoughts?

[Doombringer]

so.. i've been tossing this one around for a while in my head and i just can't get off the fence. lemme set this up.

my current tp build is at 23% haste, and 17 hits to 100% tp.

now, i know most people are writing off the new hasty pinion, and i did to at first. 1% haste at the expense of adding 1 hit to my build seemed like a step in the wrong direction.

then i remembered eurus' ledelsens.. wich i wrote off a while back for pretty much the same reason. 1% haste (compared to the boots i'm wearing now) but -3 stp.. so they also add that 18th hit to my build.

but here's where it gets a little less cut and dry.. both pieces together.. still land me at 18 hits to 100% tp. so instead of 1% haste for 1 hit, TOGETHER they give 2% haste for that one hit..

now i know i also lose a bit of att from my dusk+1 boots, and until i get other ammos i'm losing 3 dex there.. but i also know that the 25th point of haste is quite a bit more valuable than the 1st point.. could it be to the point where it's worth that 18th swing?

i've played around with these 2 a bit, but i'm on xbox, i can't really examine anything any better than eyeballing it.. so i can't see much difference either way.. just figured i'd toss this out there, maybe this was overlooked? maybe it was overlooked for a reason.. maybe this has already been under the microscope and i just missed it... but yah.. figured it was worth mentioning..

so yah... thoughts?

[Raksha]

that 18th hit is costing you about ~5 or 6% ws frequency

going from 62% of your base delay to 60% is only an increase of 3.3333~% (this is including casting haste on yourself)

in short: don't do it.

(p.s. it's too late to be doing math so check my numbers)

[Greatguardian]

Post complete TP/WS sets for a more accurate answer. I'll run some numbers based on what I think you're probably using in the meantime.

Edit: Initial calculations have the 25% Haste set coming out ahead of the 23% Haste set despite the STP- with only Haste Spell on. The gap widens when you include Enspell damage and any additional Haste you might get.

This is true for both in and outside of Abyssea, though tbh the difference is fairly minimal/insignificant if your Enspells are being resisted and you're not getting additional Haste.

[Doombringer]

tp set: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/219339

ws set: http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/219336

shikargar is fire path, 11 str 22 att.

and i'm totally gonna change that ws head eventually >.> prolly brego helm once the price drops or i give up on waiting for the price to drop. i also own lithe boots so swapping them in over ragers is a simple copy/paste of a macro line if that'd be the way to go.

edit: also... i think i might ws in my suppa now... not online and i built these sets a long time ago, edited in the shikargars just now. but again, simple macro cut/paste so assume whichever one is better i guess?

[Greatguardian]

The difference is like 0.4% in favor of the Hasty/Eurus' combo without any enspells or outside Haste.

Toss in average Enspell damage of 35 and the difference becomes about 1%. Toss in Marches, Samba, or anything that grants more Haste and it becomes more tangible.

So, to answer your question, more Haste wins.

[Doombringer]

so how do you figure this out anyway? ffxi calculator is not nearly this detailed.

[Greatguardian]

so how do you figure this out anyway? ffxi calculator is not nearly this detailed.

I'm using an adapted version of Motenten's PLD spreadsheet that I tweaked to work decently well for Rdm melee. The jobs are similar enough in offensive capability that it didn't take too much tweaking. Anything that the spreadsheet doesn't calculate on its own, I add in (like the transition from Enlight to standard Enspell damage, etc).

Edit: Credit goes to Kinematics/Motenten, etc

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B0A0wGYYRRdaZjdlNTdkNTEtMDMyYy00OTVmLWI4N2ItNDMwMDI1N2VkYWZk&sort=name&layout=list&num=50

[Neisan_Quetz]

Bah, I tried messing around with the enlight tab before but never got it down right, what exactly did you change? Or is it too much to post?

It would probably help if I remembered to check the sheet before I'm half asleep as well ><

[Doombringer]

ah.. i see.. did some googling, don't have excel. sad times. thank you though.

[Crimson_Slasher]

I myself am sitting on 28% haste for rdm, im considering stepping something down in the near future for higher overall numbers.

Zelus (8%)
Goliard body (4%)
Brego hands (4%)
Calmecac legs (3%)
Eurus' feet (4%)
Goading Belt (5%)

for haste gear, rounded off with;

Keen ring, Uthlaham's Ring, Suppanomimi, Brutal Earing, Peacock Charm, Aethling Mantle, Astrolabe.

Havent checked my tp/hit numbers but im thinking, if i can get up to a phasmidia belt, i can ditch the goli body, and be at 25%, then wear something else for body. If i had the addons id make an acc/att + dual wield body.

As for ws, im still rocking death blossom, getting decent ws numbers with death blossom in abyssea (2k average, spikes up to 3k) and for that im using currently... Well dual str shikargars for the time.

Brego head, Chiv chain, Suppanomimi, Brutal earing.
Assault Jerkin, Heafoc mitts, Spiral ring, Rajas' Ring
Aethlng Mantle, Warwolf Belt, Tumbler Trunks, Ogre Ledelsens +1

Im considering swapping the neck/belt for ele-gorget/belts, but wanna do some testing first, body im considering swapping out with morrigan's when i get it. Having trouble getting a salvage team but i blame the holidays. Otherwise i have 5 mock-emps in the progress, got the coins and crests, and ofcourse i have antares' harness for that ws body. Ill still prolly end up bouncing back and forth between death blossom with my current build, and round off a CDC build.

[saevel]

Go for 25% haste, once you add in your own 15% it becomes the dominate driver for your damage.

Also I'm assuming the 35 enspell is from a sh!tty enspell 2. Use enspell 1 instead, at two hits per round minimum (DW) and the amount of DA you can rock, enspell 1 pretty much destroys 2. Sitting at 496 enhancing magic until I can get my +2 body +2 hands and augmented A.head. That makes 29 damage enspell per hit and 19% DA (assuming I haven't hit the unknown cap yet).

My gear is,

Z.tiara
Twilight Torque (or Rancor Collar if I'm not worried about heavy damage intake)
Suppa
Brutal
ACP Body +10 Atk +10 Acc
Brego Gloves
Rajas Ring
Keen Ring
Atheling
Speed Belt
Calmaic Pants
Erudos Boots (spelling)

That puts me a little under haste cap and 10% DA from gear 2% TA. When combined with Temper your looking at 29% DA and 2% TA.

Also something I keep noticing is the sheer amount of accuracy everyone seems to want to add. Accuracy hasn't been an issue since we left the level 80 cap due to how the skills have scaled. Now this isn't to say that SE wont' introduce some crazy new sets of highly evasive monsters, but for the immediate future I'm using Bison Steaks. I'll post WS set later.

[Crimson_Slasher]

I use a fair amount of acc but thats partly some of the attack gear i use happens to sport some, or i dont personally own much in those slots that would be more useful at this juncture in time.

So yes. Accuracy.

[Seriha]

Our Ammo slot is pretty scant on good melee pieces, as is. If not the Pinion, then it's likely you're looking at Flame Sachet, Astrolabe, or even Tiphia Sting. None of which are as beneficial as the 1% haste if not capped.

I've been kind of wrestling about what to do with my body slot. An ACP body with 10 ACC/ATK would be decent if Haste isn't an issue, but there are times where Assault Jerkin could be better. There's also Morrigan's to consider as kind of an in-between with Refresh on top, but I still can't motivate myself to go 0/infinity on QQs in Salvage.

One thing I've been noticing with a lot of the new mobs is that they're sporting at least 500 DEF, while I'm at 512 ATK in my TP set before food. And while it's nice our haste options have improved a bit, ATK alongside it is still kind of scarce beyond Atheling. Also been using a acc+5/crit+2% wivre gorget as a sort of compromise between ACC and Rancor in the neck slot.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Without enspells I have smart grenade slightly ahead of pinion, but I use ACP Dual Wield body and my average rounds to 100 increases due to the pinion's -STP. For neck I just stick to Fortitude outside and use the gorget/rancor inside.

[Doombringer]

lots

in the meantime.. you could swap those boots for savateur's or dusk/+1, pick up some acc or att, and still be 26-27% haste (depending on nq or hq dusk) AND reclaim that 3 store tp.

[Greatguardian]

Bah, I tried messing around with the enlight tab before but never got it down right, what exactly did you change? Or is it too much to post?

It would probably help if I remembered to check the sheet before I'm half asleep as well ><

I just did enspells manually. Take the average rounds/100 and add enspell damage/hit into it. You can also jury rig it by just adjusting Enlight's upper and lower bounds for recast in order to get the average per-hit damage that you want since Enlight's so predictable. If the base is 50 and you recast whenever it drops to 20/hit, then the average Enlight damage will be 35. These numbers will end up slightly lower than normal though since it will be assuming that you recast Enspells more often than a Rdm would have to.


ah.. i see.. did some googling, don't have excel. sad times. thank you though.

Google OpenOffice. It's a java-based freeware Office clone that can open and write office files. It doesn't have some of the more crazy advanced features that Office has, but who needs that crap to write Word documents and make spreadsheets/powerpoints anyways? It's pretty handy.

[saevel]

Our Ammo slot is pretty scant on good melee pieces, as is. If not the Pinion, then it's likely you're looking at Flame Sachet, Astrolabe, or even Tiphia Sting. None of which are as beneficial as the 1% haste if not capped.

I've been kind of wrestling about what to do with my body slot. An ACP body with 10 ACC/ATK would be decent if Haste isn't an issue, but there are times where Assault Jerkin could be better. There's also Morrigan's to consider as kind of an in-between with Refresh on top, but I still can't motivate myself to go 0/infinity on QQs in Salvage.

One thing I've been noticing with a lot of the new mobs is that they're sporting at least 500 DEF, while I'm at 512 ATK in my TP set before food. And while it's nice our haste options have improved a bit, ATK alongside it is still kind of scarce beyond Atheling. Also been using a acc+5/crit+2% wivre gorget as a sort of compromise between ACC and Rancor in the neck slot.

In the ranged slot I tend to keep a killer bow on. Otherwise I tend to use the Aureole for the Magic Accuracy.

I've only seen higher defense on a few of the Lv 106 monsters, basically the VT~IT to a 99. Most of what we do rarely involves those unless your skilling up. Of course the next content update might change this and have us plowing through horsed of VT mobs. For these times I thank enspells.

-=Edit=-
Bad grammar.

[Doombringer]

Google OpenOffice. It's a java-based freeware Office clone that can open and write office files. It doesn't have some of the more crazy advanced features that Office has, but who needs that crap to write Word documents and make spreadsheets/powerpoints anyways? It's pretty handy.

interesting, thankyou. but i see what you mean about needing to modify it, it's missing a lot of gear i wanted to punch in, and i've got these "protected" things all over so i can't just punch in the stats for gear i wanna use.. for example.. rancor collar? i see a c-ratio column there (which i'm assuming is crit hit rate) but it won't let me just throw a 5 in it? still.. very interesting.

[Greatguardian]

interesting, thankyou. but i see what you mean about needing to modify it, it's missing a lot of gear i wanted to punch in, and i've got these "protected" things all over so i can't just punch in the stats for gear i wanna use.. for example.. rancor collar? i see a c-ratio column there (which i'm assuming is crit hit rate) but it won't let me just throw a 5 in it? still.. very interesting.

Go to Gear Lists, you can just replace PLD-specific gear with the gear you want to use. It should have tabs for CRate, CDamage, etc. Be careful adding additional lines though as this can break the spreadsheet.

[Doombringer]

ah-ha.. now i'm gettin' it.. cool

[Crimson_Slasher]

To doom:

I had considered that but the STP isnt too bad since goading offsets it pretty well for me, meanwhile im looking more for attack and the like, id be more open to dropping calmecac for tumblers, but the da/ta is so nice, so id be more keep ditching my goli body (and 1% haste from cap) for 18 attack. Also ditching the - move speed is a nice plus, shame i cant do that for blu currently... But overall yeah im happy with it.

[Doombringer]

yah i think we're actually building toward very similar sets. i was just suggesting until you get phasmida, one of the other boots would be an improvement. since you can just get them from the ah instead of being trolled by SE in voidwatch for.. potentially.... ever :(

[Crimson_Slasher]

I had considered it but im bankrupt right now, and like i said, im happy with what i have. If the store-tp becomes a problem, i can sacrafice 1-2 attack and accuracy and swap over to my rajas' i guess. But as it stands i love what im rocking at the moment! Not really any complaints other than miss-matched looks, but like i said, working on a morrigan's body

[Neisan_Quetz]

I'd drop Ulth for Rajas anyway and either pick up Balrahn's, or just accept TaU reward is a waste for you unless you go back to Salvage/Assault.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Well im working on trying to get a salvage team, otherwise, its a nice replacement to a woodsman's when not using a job that needs ranged acc. So far this set has worked great for me. I just need that little bit more UMPH! from a body slot. And wouldnt hurt for nuking either...

[Neisan_Quetz]

Rajas is just a superior ring to both.