[Suggestion] How to reintroduce HNMLS gameplay in FFXI Lv99‏

[Hercule]

Hello, so first i'd like to inform you that i'm French and so maybe my English is not going to be perfect, but i decided to post this on English forum since most of the comunity just read the English forum (French inclued).
This is my point of view about how to reintroduce a challenging, balanced and fair new End Game System deseigned for our new lv 99.
Of course i'm just here to suggest my ideas and since the forum was made for this, thanks to Square Enix to have make this possible.


How to reintroduce world spawn HNM and HNMLS gameplay in FFXI Lv99‏

1: Reintroducing 6 man party with a new type of "experiences points"
So there was "Experience points", "Merit points", i think we should introducing a new type of "experience"
Lets call this new experience pts "Valor points" (its just a random name for the exemple)

-Valor points should only drop from mobs outside abyssea.

-Most of the TOAU zone should be revamped for this since old exp mobs here are useless with Abyssea.

-Theses mobs should be deseigned to be fight from old school 6 man Party.

-Optional idea: 2 type of camp could be reintroducing "easy camp" like was Greater Colibri on lv 75, and advanced camp that require a realy old school setup with a real Tank, healer, black mages, DD, and based on Skillschain/Magic burst to deal real Damages of course with a reward from theses "advanced camp" more "Valor exp" per mobs.

I will explain on what "Valor Points" could be used for, on next section.

2: Reintroducing of World spawn HNM:
--> New Claim system! When an VHNM will pop, the players will be not able to claim him anymore, he will pop and instant claim a player (with an animation like a stun or something), he will claim a random player in a 50' Yalm range~.
If there is no player in range when he pop then he turn in a normal NM to claim. (If the claimed player is AFK during 1min after the claim, the NM should come yellow, then as usual, 1st team acting on it get the claim)
(it should be cool if these new HNM could get a maximum of 4 windows, the time of dead window + 3 windows of 30 min, so a total of 1h30 camping maximum ~ or even a single window "force pop" 23h~(To slowly get a change in the time zone) after time of dead should be ok!).

--> Players will be able to buy "Valor enmity" to an NPC with "Valor points", 1 Valor enmity point will coast XXX Valor points, Players will be able to get a maximum of 50 Valor Enmity points, each Valor Enmity points will increase a little bit the chance that you get claimed from the VHNM when he pop in your range, but even someone with 0/50 Valor Enmity can get the claim over a player with 50/50, luck based, but of course the player with 0/50 have realy poor chance to win the claim.

--> Each player in range when an VHNM pop, will lost a Valor Enmity point even if he dont claim you or your team, if you are already @ 0/50 "Valor Enmity" you will loose nothing.

--> Players should be able to buy some key item "Valor Cell" like the actual VoidWatch Cell, but Key Item version, can only store 1 per type and only buyable from Valor pts to an NPC, then they're will drop from your temporary key item list when you or your team succesfull kill a VHNM, and increase your chance of personal drops/valor pts etc...

--> Any player should be able to join or leave the party after the claim, but only players that was in the party/alliance during the claim will be able to get their Key Item that boost drop rate used when the VHNM die. (without the Key Item the drop rate shoud be realy low for personnal treasure, like a VoidWatch without cell, so better to not change the party setup after claim.

--> No more proc (!!) sytem!!!!, VHNM should be realy tough, a real challenge that need a real teamwork from end game players, the only focus on a VHNM fight should be to kill it before he kill you. AND ONLY THAT.

--> All the drop rate from the VHNM should be boosted on an exponential % based on the diversity of the team. (Extreme exemple: Full alliance with 18 differents jobs = maximum bonus, full ally of 1 same job = minimum bonus).

--> When a VHNM is defeats he should drop a Treasure chest like Voidwatch + a treasure pool.
- rar/ex items = Personnal Treasure chest.
- Others items = Party/Alliance Treasure pool.

So this is the idea, I dont ask anyone to agree with all but i think there is some cool new ideas.
Thanks for reading.

**************************************************

FAQ:

Q:

Ahhh yes, that way people don't need 20 mules running bots to claim the NM. They can just have 20 mules sitting there.
Almost everything about this is bad. Don't mean to just pop in and say Booo! without giving and constructive criticism, but there's just way too much wrong here.
Q:

The only way people could avoid it entirely is if it had nothing worth doing it for. In his system, people would just use bots to cap valor points or w/e currency they use for it on 1,000 mule accounts.

Even if no one found a way to cheat, that claim system is almost completely random once everyone has points, meaning people could do it forever and never get the drop no matter how good they are. There seriously is no way to make a cheat free lottery / timed spawn NM system. The whole concept of Timed and lottery spawns is poor. If people want to waste hours / days / weeks camping an NM, Argus still has a good drop. Have fun.

R: You forgot some points on my system,


Each player in range when an VHNM pop, will lost a Valor Enmity point even if he dont claim you or your team, if you are already @ 0/50 "Valor Enmity" you will loose nothing.

So this mean the mule with 50/50 Valor pts will lost 1 pts on each pop in her range, if the guy dont go farm new valor point to buy new valor enmity point, his mule will become 0/50 and claim 0,01% of pop over the people with 50/50~, and this should be long to get one enmity valor point (idk maybe 3 hours of exp farm for 1 Valor enmity pts, so this mean about 150 hours of farming for the 50 Valor Enmity pts~ this even should avoid people to camp everyday, and monopolize camp, and made a natural turn over).

And this in the context of 6 man Exp pt mandatory to farm Valor pts, no SMN burn, no leech possible, only a real pt of 6 real guy should be able to farm thoses "Valor exp" properly.

And there is another point i thinked to avoid abusive mule claim:


Any player should be able to join or leave the party after the claim, but only players that was in the party/alliance during the claim will be able to get their Key Item that boost drop rate used when the VHNM die. (without the Key Item the drop rate shoud be realy low for personnal treasure, like a VoidWatch without cell, so better to not change the party setup after claim).


So this mean what it mean, better not change the setup exept if its vital to get the win.

[FrankReynolds]

Ahhh yes, that way people don't need 20 mules running bots to claim the NM. They can just have 20 mules sitting there.

Almost everything about this is bad. Don't mean to just pop in and say Booo! without giving and constructive criticism, but there's just way too much wrong here.

[Brolic]

lets not and say we did, hmns were terrible.

[Alhanelem]

Sorry, I don't want more world spawn HNMs under any circumstances. Force pop only.

I respect you for coming here with a well written post; but I don't think your idea would work. Anyone could claim the NM with the current level of reliability of bots by just bringing more mules and maxing out their valor enmity or whatever, forcing everyone else to bring as many people as possible (and likely more than necessary to fight) in order to keep the odds fair.

Very few people want to keep traditional 6 man parties for anything other than battlefields/events. For EXP/similar activities, traditional parties tend to exclude many jobs and are very stressful and annoying to form.

[Brolic]

aint nothing good about the good ole days

[Hercule]

What i think is FFXI before was a lot of more and huge emotions maker, Joy, excitment, cry, fear, love, hate, jealousy, desire...
Nowadays its more like a flat game about emotions, there is still some emotions but the magnitude is not the same at all.

FFXI loose his taste day after day, because everyday we got the items we dreamed for too easily, we even can do all in solo/shout run, i realy miss a real LS teamwork

You dont liked FFXI before?? how its possible did you realy remember how it was?!

THERE: http://www.historyfans.com/Sanguo/Ocean/ffxi.html

And about emotions exemple you cant have nowadays, because everything is too easy + too many shout run, too much impersonal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2knPeI-H5x0

I miss that old FFXI

[Alhanelem]

FFXI loose his taste day after day, because everyday we got the items we dreamed for too easily, we even can do all in solo/shout run, i realy miss a real LS teamworkIf we get the items we want too easily, how come I don't have half a dozen fully upgraded mythics/relics/empys? I prefer small tight-knit friend groups to "real LS teamwork" - it rarely ever was, big LS events are rarely the perfect manifestations of teamwork people seem to think they are, and in most MMOs in general, things have been moving away from huge, you-need-40-people-to-win events and more stuff that can be done with smaller groups. Why? because gathering a whole ton of people regularly for events is a huge pain in the butt, even if they all work together well when the event actually does happen. People run late, don't show up, whine about drops, etc. It's a lot more fun to play with a few friends than with a big LS.


What i think is FFXI before was a lot of more and huge emotions maker, Joy, excitment, cry, fear, love, hate, jealousy, desire...Uh, all those are still there- especially the negative ones, which have gotten worse. I don't want a "huge emotions maker." I just want to make things go boom. "huge emotions maker" = drama. Nobody likes drama, and if you really think there's less of that, then it's a good thing.

[Hercule]

Clarity is not the clarity without the dark
The caress is not the caress without the slap
Life is not life without death
Freedom is not freedom without the constraint
Wealth is not wealth without poverty
Beauty is not beauty without horror
The sweetness is not the sweetness without cruelty

Etc...(google autotranslate but you got it imo)

[Alhanelem]

Clarity is not the dark without clarity
The caress is not the caress without the slap
Life is not life without death
Freedom is not freedom without the constraint
Wealth is not wealth without poverty
Beauty is not beauty without horror
The sweetness is not the sweetness without cruelty

Etc...
.... Your point? Are you saying you like drama? I know these are all synonyms for "you can't have the good without the bad." However, you can strengthen the goods and reduce the bads. Strangely, this is what your original suggestion aims to do, but it doesn't do enough to address the problems with world spawn bosses.

The real reason anyone finds the game less fun now than they did then is one simple reason: They've been playing it for years and years, and it's simply gotten old. It's not the design changes, it's not the shift from big LS to small group, it's not any event in particular, it's simply THEY'RE GETTING BORED from playing the same game so long. There isn't much one can do about that except introduce new content.

[Hercule]

I enjoy the new content, but whats the problem if SE re introduce new HNM?? if you dont like it just dont go for it.
I can tell you that there ia public who like HNM camping and shit, so what the problem to reintroduce this for theses people, no one force you to go camp shit,

Even if SE made new World Spawn HNM thats only drop some cool skin trophee city gear or titles, there is still a public that will going camp it.

[Ryce]

The only thing I miss about the old days is the 6-man group. There was nothing fun about waiting hours for that perfect combo of jobs/levels to show up so a group could be made, but after the group was assembled, it was usually great. I made a lot of friends in exp groups (most of them temporary, but we had fun) when it was only 6 of us. Working together, pushing our limits, finding our groove... that was great stuff. I still see people running around Jeuno that I remember leveling with back in Crawlers Nest, the Jungles, $hitadel, etc. I can't name one player that I've leveled with in Abyssea.

I can't speak to the challenge of HNMs. Only every showed up to Behemoth once, and we didn't get claim. Based on the community outcry, I can imagine the challenging fights are sorely missed. I hope they do introduce some really tough fights (note: tough fights, not tough claims).

[Arcon]

Sounds interesting, the only drawback I could see with this would be people bringing a shitload of mules to increase their chances of popping it. You could make it alliance based, however, that too could be abused by artificially splitting up. Maybe a combination of party/alliance and the size thereof, or make it so alliances cannot be reformed or the mob will automatically claim to someone else.

Just a few ideas to bounce off the wall. There's definitely something there.

[Hercule]

The only thing I miss about the old days is the 6-man group. There was nothing fun about waiting hours for that perfect combo of jobs/levels to show up so a group could be made, but after the group was assembled, it was usually great. I made a lot of friends in exp groups (most of them temporary, but we had fun) when it was only 6 of us. Working together, pushing our limits, finding our groove... that was great stuff. I still see people running around Jeuno that I remember leveling with back in Crawlers Nest, the Jungles, $hitadel, etc. I can't name one player that I've leveled with in Abyssea.

I can't speak to the challenge of HNMs. Only every showed up to Behemoth once, and we didn't get claim. Based on the community outcry, I can imagine the challenging fights are sorely missed. I hope they do introduce some really tough fights (note: tough fights, not tough claims).

Yeah in fact i miss more 6man PT than camping world spawn HNM so, if we are just in agreement with this, thats enouth to made me happy with the comunity

[Alhanelem]

I enjoy the new content, but whats the problem if SE re introduce new HNM?? if you dont like it just dont go for it.I don't want new *world spawn* HNM. Any and all new bosses going forward should be pop NMs, battlefields, or event-driven. No more monsters that pop on days-to-weeks-long timer, ever. If they want to make a pop HNM boss that takes 20 people to win in an hour, that's cool- I'd do that a few times. I love a good boss fight. I don't love claim bots and waiting around, so I'll stick to the content where that's not an issue.

Nobody, or very few, people want old fasioned HNM back- there are enough of those still in the game if you want to do them, and it's not worth the developers time to keep adding new content that most people actively do not want.

Join voidwatch groups if you want to fight big bad bosses. Find like-minded individuals who think the same way you do and enjoy your 6-man parties and existing world spawn HNMs (most of which can be done with just a few people now) while everyone else enjoys content that was designed to be able to be enjoyed without having to deal with botters or lots of waiting around doing nothing in order to access them.


The only thing I miss about the old days is the 6-man group.This is what I miss the least of all, at least in the context that most people use the phrase "6-man group." Unless you were a SAM, BRD, or RDM, good *^#$ing luck getting a party. 6-man group for most people meant stting in jeuno for hours on end waiting for a party invite or waiting to find one of the previously mentioned jobs since every BRD or RDM was always either in a party already, otherwise busy, or /anon.

[FrankReynolds]

Yeah, putting together a 6 man grouped sucked. Honestly, I talk a lot in abyssea parties. I've met lots of different people. (18 > 6). I think you have nostalgia goggles on. Theres no reason why you can't talk and make friends in xp parties in abyssea. It's actually easier to converse, because it requires far less concentration to actually have a good abyssea party.

[Insaniac]

If there are people who really honestly miss camping world spawn HNMs I would like to remind them that everything but Kings is still on their shitty old timers so if you just miss camping for the sake of camping have at it!! I'm sure Sandworm would be happy to see you. The only reason in the world to ask for long window HNM camps is because you don't enjoy doing something unless you feel like you beat someone else for it. If that's the case go play a PvP game.

As for these valor points.. I'm not 100% opposed but they should be used for a 3rd merit category or something and have nothing to do with claiming HNMs that should never exist. Creating a reason to occasionally do a different type of exp isn't the worst idea I have ever heard.

[Brolic]

Yet it did you no good when the server merge happened and kazoku crushed persistance within two weeks :D

I'm up for some new world spawns all the people against them don't need to partcipate in them at all. Diffrent events for diffrent type of people some selfish people only want content they themselves like and never think of others.

I had already quit before then, so did most of the core, the shell had already fallen apart. I don't even think they were called persistence anymore. wasnt it some weird pink shell? besides our little taru agent infiltrated your shell and toni's pants.

By that point we were all so sick of play ffxi like a 1 player game, people didnt even bother showing up to camp faf anymore, we'd let it roam around for 3hrs just to keep it in our time, we had something like a 98% claim rate. Do people want to go back to that?

[FrankReynolds]

Yet it did you no good when the server merge happened and kazoku crushed persistance within two weeks :D

I'm up for some new world spawns all the people against them don't need to partcipate in them at all. Diffrent events for diffrent type of people some selfish people only want content they themselves like and never think of others.

I don't think you understand the meaning of the word "selfish".


If there are people who really honestly miss camping world spawn HNMs I would like to remind them that everything but Kings is still on their shitty old timers so if you just miss camping for the sake of camping have at it!! I'm sure Sandworm would be happy to see you. The only reason in the world to ask for long window HNM camps is because you don't enjoy doing something unless you feel like you beat someone else for it. If that's the case go play a PvP game.

As for these valor points.. I'm not 100% opposed but they should be used for a 3rd merit category or something and have nothing to do with claiming HNMs that should never exist. Creating a reason to occasionally do a different type of exp isn't the worst idea I have ever heard.

I think they already did this with the XP requirements for upgrading relic armor in dynamis.

[BitMusic]

I had already quit before then, so did most of the core, the shell had already fallen apart. I don't even think they were called persistence anymore. wasnt it some weird pink shell? besides our little taru agent infiltrated your shell and toni's pants.

By that point we were all so sick of play ffxi like a 1 player game, people didnt even bother showing up to camp faf anymore, we'd let it roam around for 3hrs just to keep it in our time, we had something like a 98% claim rate. Do people want to go back to that?

She's still with Tony now i think lol. It was pink over here honestly can't remember the name now, it ended with claim been banned and meyaca hoping to valefor i think.

[Insaniac]

I think they already did this with the XP requirements for upgrading relic armor in dynamis.Yeah I was thinking that as I typed it out. Same idea but in zones without time limits. A small part of me wouldn't mind OCCASIONALLY making an old school party. Like very very occasionally.

[FrankReynolds]

Yeah I was thinking that as I typed it out. Same idea but in zones without time limits. A small part of me wouldn't mind OCCASIONALLY making an old school party. Like very very occasionally.

They could do this for magian upgrades. Instead of "X number of X mobs in X weather". It could be "Gain X amount of experience points in X zone".


Brolics right. World spawn HNMS suck. It would just create newer better forms of botting / griefing. No thanks.

[Catsby]

-Rebuild the enmity system for 99.

-Produce clever monsters scripts that react to the player rather than cycle through actions.
>behaviors for taking too much damage/time.
>behaviors for taking specific forms of damage.
>behaviors for different weather, environments.
>behaviors for specific abilities.
>behaviors for certain races.
>better yet, behaviors in general. (Count the number of monsters that in the game that don't fight to the death)

-Do away with loot pools and make the reward for the kill a number of points.
>points are redeemable for various items.
>points are exchangeble for other points such as CP, Zeni and IS.

Shazam! Problem [partially] solved!

[Ravenmore]

The only thing I miss about the old days is the 6-man group. There was nothing fun about waiting hours for that perfect combo of jobs/levels to show up so a group could be made, but after the group was assembled, it was usually great. I made a lot of friends in exp groups (most of them temporary, but we had fun) when it was only 6 of us. Working together, pushing our limits, finding our groove... that was great stuff. I still see people running around Jeuno that I remember leveling with back in Crawlers Nest, the Jungles, $hitadel, etc. I can't name one player that I've leveled with in Abyssea.

I can't speak to the challenge of HNMs. Only every showed up to Behemoth once, and we didn't get claim. Based on the community outcry, I can imagine the challenging fights are sorely missed. I hope they do introduce some really tough fights (note: tough fights, not tough claims).

They were hard till people killed them so many time they could do it in their sleep. Gound was just as easy as Kirin. So Shells that had the funds to supply a couple of drks with K.clubs couple have them down in a couple of mins. In fact the KS99s were harder then the world spawns.

[Runespider]

I miss that old FFXI

I liked old FFXI too, but I would like it to stay old FFXI.

HNM had amazingly fun high points (like a hold team claiming and a mad rush to get people out there to save them/claiming a past HNM on rng and trying to stay alive long enough for your tank to get there) but a hell of a lot of lows (constantly being outclaimed and denied a fight wasting 3-6 hours over and over), people that want HNM back generally are either people that a) never actually did them but think they can now cause of how open Abyssea is (if old FFXI came back most players would be seen as scrubs and not given the time of day trying to join a HNMLS) b) botters (even some botters got sick of it after a while cause there was no rush to claiming anymore though) c) were on a really backwater server and if they had to actually compete on the now joined servers would get owned constantly by dedicated bot HNMLS that claimed whether they needed the drops or not to RMT them or preserve the rarity to the buyers.

If Square actually do bring back HNM with godo drops it will be the single most retarded thing they ever do, people suggested all manner of things to fix HNM and they never did any of them. New content should be NEW, not old crap that was hated. The last HNMS they added were Sandworm and Dark Ixion and if you were in a shell that did these regularly (legit) then you knew the horror of these horrible shits...5-6 hours constantly reloading widescan..every day.

[Inches]

..5-6 hours constantly reloading widescan..every day.

omg.. what a horrible flashback I've just had.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! *runs away, jumps off the Golden Gate*

[Hercule]

omg.. what a horrible flashback I've just had.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! *runs away, jumps off the Golden Gate*

I camped for years everyday Dark Ixion and Sand Worm, and with the concurence you needed to refrsh your widescan every 1min max, and every 30 sec if possible, this was not realy fun for sure, but, no one forced you to camp it...

I cant understand all theses players that hated camp HNM but still go for it? wtf?
If you dont like it why you do it? or maybe you agreed that the item droped from theses HNM deserved this cain of work, if yes so dont cry, or farm gil and buy it.

[CrAZYVIC]

Hello, so first i'd like to inform you that i'm French and so maybe my English is not going to be perfect, but i decided to post this on English forum since most of the comunity just read the English forum (French inclued).
This is my point of view about how to reintroduce a challenging, balanced and fair new End Game System deseigned for our new lv 99.
Of course i'm just here to suggest my ideas and since the forum was made for this, thanks to Square Enix to have make this possible.


How to reintroduce world spawn HNM and HNMLS gameplay in FFXI Lv99‏

1: Reintroducing 6 man party with a new type of "experiences points"
So there was "Experience points", "Merit points", i think we should introducing a new type of "experience"
Lets call this new experience pts "Valor points" (its just a random name for the exemple).

No thanks im glad with my grounds of valor 20 - 25k per hour alone until i can join abbysea. I pass 6 six man party dramas.

Im up for a job specialititation system in the future with "Valor points". But keep our PRIVACITY if we want solo,duo or a big ally.

The old system was Shitty. Horrible stupids parties and horribles HNM based.
I liked Dynamis, Einherjar, Sea and Sky. But Fucking HNM No i hope that never return

[Inches]

I cant understand all theses players that hated camp HNM but still go for it? wtf?
If you dont like it why you do it? or maybe you agreed that the item droped from theses HNM deserved this cain of work, if yes so dont cry, or farm gil and buy it.

Does this mean that you enjoyed every single event that your egls did? If you did, then more power to you man. I truly am jealous. Most of the times one assisted to help others get what they wanted. In turn, others would do the same.

So why do it? There could have been many reasons.
1. You enjoyed helping out, even if you hated the event.
2. You were "Forced" by your egls to assist, or face the leader's wrath! (luckily, this was never my case)
3. You wanted to accumulate "points" so that eventually you could lot on stuff you wanted.

meh. There are many reasons to do an event that you don't enjoy.

You don't seem to enjoy Abyssea (at least that's what one can get from your posts). Yet, I'm guessing you've done it because you've been posting about the annoying things one can find within Abyssea xp groups. So there, classic example of people non-enjoyable stuff. It just happens.

I don't really care if they add HNM content, so long don't switch the entire game to full on hardcore mode. I would simply skip on the HNMs. Just don't make hardcore content be the end all, be all, of the game.

But that quote.. it did give me the chills... *brrrrrr*

[Hercule]

About abyssea i enjoyed it, i even maded an empyrean weapon
By the way i think the magian moogle trials are realy a cool thing that SE maded.

The only problem about Abyssea is this was poor in challenge, yeah exept grind farm for empyrean weapon/armor, and just because we got cheated with Brew and overboosted stats, if you try even with a lv 99 to kill all the thing in abyssea without Atma and brew it will be a real challenge, but SE maded this so.

And the other problem i think is abyssea made exp become too easy, you unlock a new WS 5/5 on 1 afternoon ... maybe less...
And nowadays you can get a lv 99 from lv 1 on maybe a couples of days ....

This is a problem i think, there is a too big gap between the old FFXI and the new one about this.

[Lafaiel]

The problem with world HNM and this game though Hercule, this game is old, and many players that started long ago do not have the time to camp HNM anymore, most that were in college or young at the time now have wives and children, homes and bills to pay. Most of the older players cannot do that anymore but they are also the ones that stay around because of friends and time invested.

Yes, we still want good gear, but HNM was basically standing around for hours and then who had the better bot at the end, after 10 years, its time the HNM scene died for good, most players don't want that anymore.

I know you say "well you don't have to do it", but its player mentality to go for the best of the best and when we can't get it because of some NM that spawns at 3AM with a 21-24 hour window and 100 other people standing around, we get angry, we get angry because we want it and we can't get it, that is something basic in humans from the time we are born.

This game is aging and needs to focus on keeping the players it has and HNM coming back is not going to help with that.

[Alhanelem]

this was not realy fun for sure, but, no one forced you to camp it...If it wasn't fun, then why did you do it and why do you want more of it? If it's really because you want the drops, we already have high end monsters with high caliber drops. It's called voidwatch, go knock yourself out on that.

Other than the sheer epicness of fighting a giant wyrm for the first time, there wasn't much fun about HNMs. Waiting hours for them to spawn and then losing the pull to botters (or even normal players) takes all the fun out of it. This is why it's better to take the same strong monsters, and make them poppable or put them inside a battlefield. Why you would rather camp them and fight over who gets to kill it is beyond my ability to understand.


HNM had amazingly fun high points (like a hold team claiming and a mad rush to get people out there to save them/claiming a past HNM on rng and trying to stay alive long enough for your tank to get there) I cannot fathom in my right mind how anyone could consider this part of it fun. Maybe it's fun if you're guy tanking it, but no, I didn't consider having to drop whatever I was doing no matter what it was to run out to Tiamat or Nidhogg because someone in our LS claimed it, nor was it fun to already be there and go AFK for 30 minutes after each window. Only the actual fighting part was fun, and only the first few times. After you camp fafnir about 10 times you get sick of it.

The only people I knew who truly enjoyed stuff like that were the people who had claim bots and won the pull more often than not.

[FrankReynolds]

I keep hearing this stupid argument: "well you don't have to do it if you don't like it."

Sure, just like I don't have to go to work, or pay my bills. But guess what? Nobody likes partying with a smelly homeless scrub. In game or out.

Bottom line: If they add good gear to it, You will suffer the consequences of the HNM world spawn one way or another. Either by camping them and dealing with all the BS that that entails, or by not having good gear and the BS that comes with being poorly geared.

[Hercule]

If it wasn't fun, then why did you do it and why do you want more of it? If it's really because you want the drops, we already have high end monsters with high caliber drops. It's called voidwatch, go knock yourself out on that.

Other than the sheer epicness of fighting a giant wyrm for the first time, there wasn't much fun about HNMs. Waiting hours for them to spawn and then losing the pull to botters (or even normal players) takes all the fun out of it. This is why it's better to take the same strong monsters, and make them poppable or put them inside a battlefield. Why you would rather camp them and fight over who gets to kill it is beyond my ability to understand.

I cannot fathom in my right mind how anyone could consider this part of it fun. Maybe it's fun if you're guy tanking it, but no, I didn't consider having to drop whatever I was doing no matter what it was to run out to Tiamat or Nidhogg because someone in our LS claimed it, nor was it fun to already be there and go AFK for 30 minutes after each window. Only the actual fighting part was fun, and only the first few times. After you camp fafnir about 10 times you get sick of it.

Because since its too easy to pop and since you can repop it every 5min if you loose, you dont feel anything when you get this type of NM, because it was not an hard work to get it,
Then the problem is, no one realy focus, its like the exp penality when you die, nowadays its nothing and no one care of loosing some exp, so you fell nothing when you die, its same for HNM you feel nothing special, and shout group just go into theses fight without any strategie like "Hey lets go pop this shit and spam our JA/MA on it till white proc shit then kill it"
I dont feel anything epic in that, especialy about theses (!!) bullshit proc, theses dont make people focus on a fight, here the VW is just a toy we play with till we decide to kill it because we have played enough with him.
A real HNM should inspire fear.

[Alhanelem]

Because since its too easy to pop, since you can repop it every 5min if you loose, you dont feel anything when you get this type of NM, because it was not an hard work to get it, Everything you listed are good things. It's the fight that should be hard, not accessing it.

Does spending a month to get the pop items for Pandy Warden somehow make him more fun to fight? No, it doesn't. It just adds to the annoyance and stress level.

The only thing I don't like about voidwatch is the loot system. It has fun fights, you don't have to bend over backwards to participate, and if you aren't good you will surely get your arse handed to you. So what if you don't have to wait long to try again? The failure itself already cost you a half an hour most likely. Isn't that enough?

I'm sorry, big hurdles to jump through in order to participate doesn't make a fight more fun. An interesting, challenging battle that probably takes you a few tries to master is fun.

Though it wasn't that hard after people came up with the strategy, one of my favorite fights was Einherjar Odin. The thing is, you can only fight him once every couple weeks to a month depending on how you go about it. I won't say it doesn't make the fun wear off a little slower, but the waiting part certainly isn't fun by itself. And the thing is, with something that you can only fight so rarely, they usually don't make it too difficult because it really, really sucks when you lose one of those fights, because you have to wait such a long time to get another chance.

No NM can "inspire fear." no matter how big and scary it is. This is a GAME. I'm not afraid of any monster in a game. If it beats me, I'll just come back again later and kick it's butt.

The one thing I agree with you on is proc systems suck. A fight should take time because it's hard, not because you're trying to boost your drop rates.

[Brolic]

Goin back a few pages for this but...



..no. what I liked the most was sitting around for hours talking trash with friends and foes. getting the claim was just icing on the cake.

you don't need to pay se to play isketch.

[FrankReynolds]

Goin back a few pages for this but...
..no. what I liked the most was sitting around for hours talking trash with friends and foes. getting the claim was just icing on the cake.

They have a chat system in FFXI that allows you to talk to people no matter where in the game that they are. They also have link shells that allow you to do so in huge groups. There is no need for a captive audience.

[Niklz]

the point. it has been missed.

[Quetzacoatl]

Here's a tiny little word that can sum up the entire first post:

No.

[Originalkord]

My best days in this game were spent in HNM shells like Remedy and ApkalluVendetta. Camping HNM's were some of the funnest times I ever had, just because of all the nonsense that would take place during the long wait. That coupled with the fact I could get done a fair amount of homework AND get linkshell points!!

That being said....you couldn't pay me to agree to go back to those days.

[Kimble]

I hated HNM. I only really did it like someone said to get points to lot on things I actually wanted. I think the only HNM item I even got anyways was Dalmy. Well, I guess ace's helm? Not like when I got it it had much of a use anymore.

Only thing that made it bearable was going to "camp" and just go afk for 3 hours and watch a movie or play another game and not even attempt to claim it but just be there to get the points for being there, lol.

[Karbuncle]

I respect the OP for his well formed, and thought out Post. However, I don't think HNMs are going to bring back what you're really after. Emotions.

Think of it like this, You're remembering how much excitement you felt back when you got the Rare item you wanted, or what have you. In a sense, You're trying to recapture the excitement of that first victory, or the first rare item you got.

I remember the first piece of Sky gear i got, Hecatomb Feet, Loved them to death, Was so happy. Only later masked by Valor Surcoat, and Valor Cape.

But you have to remember, What you're doing is essentially trying to relive your best moments. its like when people try to play new MMOs, basically trying to recapture that feeling of awe they felt when they played their first MMO.

Its like your first real girlfriend/relationship. Sure other relationships are nice, but none will quite match that mystery, or excitement, of that first real intimate relationship.

Basically, what you're asking for won't bring you want you're seeking, Excitement or Emotion. Its really quite simple, Its like an Old man dreaming of his youth, You're wanting something you can't have.

Even if they brought back world spawn HNMs, It won't give you the excitement you felt back then. Nothing will. Its only natural :|.

[Alhanelem]

I want people to push hard, so sure. Kill new players easily, but make them understand that it was easy. Got to make the game feel natural, like something that anyone can do.Actually quite true, but it's sad at the same time that the primary source of enjoyment was not from the HNM itself but what was done to pass the time waiting for it to pop.

I ahve to agree, that even if the old HNM scene suddenly returned, you would not get the same emotional attachment to it now that you did then. I'ts just something that happens as time goes on.

[Arcon]

The problem with world HNM and this game though Hercule, this game is old, and many players that started long ago do not have the time to camp HNM anymore, most that were in college or young at the time now have wives and children, homes and bills to pay. Most of the older players cannot do that anymore but they are also the ones that stay around because of friends and time invested.

I keep hearing this argument in several threads, and I completely understand it. Here's the thing, though, if people have grown up and won't stay up until 4AM anymore, wouldn't that make HNM camping better? The way HNMs were intended was to cycle through different timezones, so every region would get a shot at claiming it (hence the 21h-24h repop window). If the window got to early, you had two choices: either screw over your schedule to camp it, or leave it to the guys in the respective timezone. And in older days, people would always choose the first option. However, if now people start being more casual about it and not give a crap, wouldn't that system start to work out? People would camp it when it's in their timezone, and others would camp it in their timezones. Effectively the rate at which your schedule agrees with the NM window will be smaller (say from 6PM to 12AM instead of 4PM to 4AM), however, since that will likely affect people from all over the globe, the competition in that smaller personal window will also be less. Sure, there will be some people who do have more free time, and they'll still show up in your HNM window, but some also won't.


Sure, just like I don't have to go to work, or pay my bills. But guess what? Nobody likes partying with a smelly homeless scrub. In game or out.

I also hear this argument over and over, and I completely agree with it. However, there are ways to counter that, ways that SE employed for the last few years: make alternate routes to obtain said gear. Abjurations could be obtained from Einherjar, Black Belt items from KS99, most other things were not exclusive and could be bought. So in the end doing HNM camping wasn't as much about obtaining items as it was about selling them and making money. There were only a handful of notable HNM drops and even they became money items after a while (Ridill and Hauteclaire) and the only item I remember that no LS would sell was Defending Ring. And none of them were required in any way or even gave a significant edge over other items (again, excluding Defending Ring). I don't remember a single time hearing a WAR wouldn't get invited without a Ridill (or Adaberk, for that matter, but that's another story) or a PLD without a Hauteclaire (or Defending Ring).

Could you agree with a system that doesn't force you to participate, but only offers you additional ways to get to new content? It feels to me like most people will simply want to be part of endgame, but don't want to be part of the HNM scene, which is why they're against it. Which is something I can agree with, but if the game indeed offers alternate routes and if people are indeed more mature and casual these days, it shouldn't be hard to find people who simply don't do HNMs (or just casual HNMs), but still everything else endgame.


Even if they brought back world spawn HNMs, It won't give you the excitement you felt back then. Nothing will. Its only natural :|.

Very nice post. Very sad too, but very true. Even I don't believe HNMs will ever be what they used to be (or, for that matter, FFXI itself). I just don't see anything wrong with adding something optional that people used to enjoy (if it is indeed optional, SE would have to make an effort to design a good system for it). I have to admit, I was also more attached to the emotion that came with the experience of camping HNMs than HNM camping itself. Your post was a bit of an (maybe unwanted) eye-opener. I'm starting to wonder whether I'd enjoy HNMs as much if it was new again.

[Kimble]

Well, I think part of that is though, if they released new HNMs and an alternative route to getting tthe items they drop (einherjar, BCNM), most people will prob just do the alternative route so while others will be able to camp HNMs again, they wont get that same excitement since there wouldn't be as much competition for them and creating that drama they seem to like.

Also, with the way the game has gone (not needed large LS to get things done, even something like VW is done more so through shouting and seeing up runs though seacom), I don't think many people would be willing to join a larger LS again to fight such nms (after all, more people = more chance to claim)

I do understand what you mean, but I think in the end, adding HNMs along with alternate routes to getting their drops, won't accomplish what people really want when it comes to HNMs.

[FrankReynolds]

I also hear this argument over and over, and I completely agree with it. However, there are ways to counter that, ways that SE employed for the last few years: make alternate routes to obtain said gear. Abjurations could be obtained from Einherjar, Black Belt items from KS99, most other things were not exclusive and could be bought. So in the end doing HNM camping wasn't as much about obtaining items as it was about selling them and making money. There were only a handful of notable HNM drops and even they became money items after a while (Ridill and Hauteclaire) and the only item I remember that no LS would sell was Defending Ring. And none of them were required in any way or even gave a significant edge over other items (again, excluding Defending Ring). I don't remember a single time hearing a WAR wouldn't get invited without a Ridill (or Adaberk, for that matter, but that's another story) or a PLD without a Hauteclaire (or Defending Ring).

Could you agree with a system that doesn't force you to participate, but only offers you additional ways to get to new content? It feels to me like most people will simply want to be part of endgame, but don't want to be part of the HNM scene, which is why they're against it. Which is something I can agree with, but if the game indeed offers alternate routes and if people are indeed more mature and casual these days, it shouldn't be hard to find people who simply don't do HNMs (or just casual HNMs), but still everything else endgame.


There's really no way around the fact that they would be botted. It's a terrible idea, regardless of how it's implemented.

[Arcon]

There's really no way around the fact that they would be botted. It's a terrible idea, regardless of how it's implemented.

If it's implemented in a traditional sense, yes. Something like what the OP suggested would make botting impossible.

Regardless, my point was that if there was an alternate route, people wouldn't have to put up with botting (or not botting, whatever the case my be). People could ignore it altogether if they didn't wanna be a part of it.

[Greatguardian]

Funny story, the other HNM proponents don't like HNMs for the battles. They like it for the drama, the botting, and the trash talk.

You can't say "They can implement world spawns without those!" because they wouldn't be world spawns. Random claims wouldn't make most of these people truly happy either unless they were one of the shells that couldn't afford (or were too slow to buy) NASA.

Besides, random claims just puts emphasis on the number of bodies you have present rather than any sort of skill. That's the single worst facet of HNMs and hardly needs to be extrapolated even further.

[FrankReynolds]

If it's implemented in a traditional sense, yes. Something like what the OP suggested would make botting impossible.

Regardless, my point was that if there was an alternate route, people wouldn't have to put up with botting (or not botting, whatever the case my be). People could ignore it altogether if they didn't wanna be a part of it.

The only way people could avoid it entirely is if it had nothing worth doing it for. In his system, people would just use bots to cap valor points or w/e currency they use for it on 1,000 mule accounts.

Even if no one found a way to cheat, that claim system is almost completely random once everyone has points, meaning people could do it forever and never get the drop no matter how good they are. There seriously is no way to make a cheat free lottery / timed spawn NM system. The whole concept of Timed and lottery spawns is poor. If people want to waste hours / days / weeks camping an NM, Argus still has a good drop. Have fun.

[Greatguardian]

Chram was outdated when Visions of Abyssea was released.

[Benihana]

HNMs= so many tears. Can you imagine the outrage? It was be.. chaos on these forums. The rivers of tears would be epic.
It would be down right cruel.

[Hercule]

The only way people could avoid it entirely is if it had nothing worth doing it for. In his system, people would just use bots to cap valor points or w/e currency they use for it on 1,000 mule accounts.

Even if no one found a way to cheat, that claim system is almost completely random once everyone has points, meaning people could do it forever and never get the drop no matter how good they are. There seriously is no way to make a cheat free lottery / timed spawn NM system. The whole concept of Timed and lottery spawns is poor. If people want to waste hours / days / weeks camping an NM, Argus still has a good drop. Have fun.

You forgot some points on my system,


Each player in range when an VHNM pop, will lost a Valor Enmity point even if he dont claim you or your team, if you are already @ 0/50 "Valor Enmity" you will loose nothing.

So this mean the mule with 50/50 Valor pts will lost 1 pts on each pop in her range, if the guy dont go farm new valor point to buy new valor enmity point, his mule will become 0/50 and claim 0,01% of pop over the people with 50/50~, and this should be long to get one enmity valor point (idk maybe 3 hours of exp farm for 1 Valor enmity pts, so this mean about 150 hours of farming for the 50 Valor Enmity pts~ this even should avoid people to camp everyday, and monopolize camp, and made a natural turn over).

And this in the context of 6 man Exp pt mandatory to farm Valor pts, no SMN burn, no leech possible, only a real pt of 6 real guy should be able to farm thoses "Valor exp" properly.

And there is another point i thinked to avoid abusive mule claim:


Any player should be able to join or leave the party after the claim, but only players that was in the party/alliance during the claim will be able to get their Key Item that boost drop rate used when the VHNM die. (without the Key Item the drop rate shoud be realy low for personnal treasure, like a VoidWatch without cell, so better to not change the party setup after claim).


So this mean what it mean, better not change the setup exept if its vital to get the win.

[Benihana]

problem solved TBH:, must be lv99, sky,sea,all expansion packs complete and mini expansion packs complete , and one player per alliance/account/credit card to get these whatever-you-call-em points.

if someone wants to go through the trouble of trying to bring 20 mules in this case, well then, that dude can have it because that is sad tbh.

[Tohihroyu]

The only ones that "miss" the old HNM days are the botters & those who paid loads of money for bots. I don't miss that one bit, now if only SE would do more to get rid of botters & RMT rather then sweep it under the rug...

I only miss "old school" parties, made many friends...sure you can in GoV burns & Dom ops...if no ones sleeping or leeching, I remember if someone leeched in a party they where kicked lol, even if gone for more then...idk 10 mins "that person is leeching, kick him." now its "that persons the sync...so kick him when hes lvl 26" (I know you don't level sync in Dom ops...>_>)

[Vold]

Well see, the thing is, SE implemented new world HNMs. It's called voidwatch. I'm not quite sure why this goes over so many heads. So, I'll sound like a broken record here and repeat myself once more: They already gave us voidwatch as the new world HNM. It's obvious by now VW is what they meant when they commented ages ago that new HNMs were in the works. Considering the direction it took, I would not hold my breathe for "old HNM" to make a return. Not when they are also talking about fafhogging the remaining ground HNM in the game(so like if you missed that little tidbit you better start bleeping killing the hell out of anything you need to kill before it's too late and they make a system worse than what they did to faf/behe/adaman to try to "fix" the complaints last time around. Right now, more or less these f'ers are up and bored of not being killed 24/7 except for DI and Sandworm maybe, depending on your server and whether or not someone is wasting their time with farming them for gil)

[wish12oz]

ya..... or we could ask for fun content!?

[Alhanelem]

And this in the context of 6 man Exp pt mandatory to farm Valor pts, no SMN burn, no leech possible, only a real pt of 6 real guy should be able to farm thoses "Valor exp" properlyThere is no way to prevent people from using <insert strategy here> to kill monsters. You can limit the number of people, but that's about it. You are very anti-SMN for some reason that I don't know why, but there is no way to prevent "SMN burns" (Which no one does any more anyway) without nerfing SMN into the ground, which it doesn't need because it's already an unpopular job to begin with.

Basically, you're against any way people might concieveably think of to make something easier than you personally want it to be. That's kind of selfish. Why should everyone else have to suffer because *you* enjoy things a certain way that other people don't?

If people want to throw pets at a monster, there's nothing wrong with that. If they want to kite, there's nothing wrong with that. If people want ot use their 2-hours, be it astral flow or any other, there's nothing wrong with that. They're all allowed, legitimate tactics in the game. If you don't like a tactic, you don't have to use it, just like you told me. But who are you to say other people shouldn't be allowed to do it? If you want something to be a challenge in this game, you have the power to choose challenge. No matter what you come up with, people will find some ideal way of doing it that requires less effort. It's human nature to find the path of least resistance.

TL;DR: If you don't want to read all that, then just know that like everyone else here has said, The only people that truly enjoyed the HNM scene were the ones that had the power to claim whatever they wanted (or wipe whoever did claim it so they can steal it) whenever they wanted. Anybody else doesn't miss any part of it except the experience of fighting the monster itself.

[Hercule]

I dont have any problem with SMN, i have only problem with some "glitch" that make a team become "half of the PT afk leeching something"
We are in a videogame right? the gameplay is everything, why would you like to stay sit AFK and win everything like that, where is the pleasure in that?
when i said:


And this in the context of 6 man Exp pt mandatory to farm Valor pts, no SMN burn, no leech possible, only a real pt of 6 real guy should be able to farm thoses "Valor exp" properly

I mean this should be impossible to get 1 or multi player afk/leeching doing nothing here without loosing anything.

I dont know who is selfish here, the guy that want a game with a solid gameplay/logic and teamwork, or the guy that want a game where you can afk and look the game working alone while you doing something else?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Yes, because I want to sit around for 10 hours waiting for LoO to pop. So I can out claim the RMT bots with steal, just so we can CFH before we whipe, because the main healer had to go mow the lawn.

[Alhanelem]

i have only problem with some "glitch" that make a team become "half of the PT afk leeching something"It's not a glitch, it's an allowed, legitimate tactic within the rules. It's also not really even used anymore.


We are in a videogame right? the gameplay is everything, why would you like to stay sit AFK and win everything like that, where is the pleasure in that?I wouldn't call the EXP grinding the best part of FFXI's gameplay. These people simply want to get to the more fun parts sooner. Some people love EXPing, others don't and would prefer their game time to be content-driven instead.


I dont know who is selfish here, the guy that want a game with a solid gameplay/logic and teamwork, or the guy that want a game where you can afk and look the game working alone while you doing something else? 1) the gameplay mechanic you proposed is not solid and does not solve the inherent problems of world spawn HNMs.
2) You can't win any real fight by being AFK, and very few people are actually AFK as much as you imply. These people simply enjoy other parts of the game more than the EXP grinding. None of them are going to go AFK while fighting bahamut, or Pandy warden, or what-have-you. What's really so wrong with that? It's the sole reason SE doesn't take more actions to restrict power leveling. It almost sounds to me more like you're jealous that someone else leveled up faster than you did.
3) HNM camping is not fun at all. Only the fight itself is, and that's if you can deal with the annoyance, stress and frustration of competing against 30 other people also vying for the same thing you are. How is it fun when the "winner" is whoever is lucky enough to be given claim, or who has the fastest bot. Really, what part of that is fun? The thing I liked about HNM was the epic battles. I HATED the waiting, the competition, the different groups triyng to make eachother wipe, the 7 hour BST LS tiamats.
4) The HNM system actually causes a lot of AFKing. Think about it. When you spend most of the time at an HNM camp playing iSketch because there's absolutely nothing to do while you're waiting for the pop window, isn't that a sign of a badly designed mechanic? Be honest here. When you camp old-school HNMs, you spend more time not playing the game than actually playing it.


Yes, because I want to sit around for 10 hours waiting for LoO to pop. So I can out claim the RMT bots with steal, just so we can CFH before we whipe, because the main healer had to go mow the lawn. Wins the thread.

[Camiie]

I dont know who is selfish here, the guy that want a game with a solid gameplay/logic and teamwork, or the guy that want a game where you can afk and look the game working alone while you doing something else?


The latter is exactly what HNM camping was!

[Hercule]

The latter is exactly what HNM camping was!

Yes you right for the camping part it was a little borring but i talk about the fact that you should not be able to win something in the game while leeching afk or something like that, about world pop HNM if SE could reintroduce new HNM like a single window "force pop" 23h~(To slowly get a change in the time zone) after time of dead should be perfect!

So you just know exactly when he will pop = no camping

[FrankReynolds]

Yes you right for the camping part it was a little borring but i talk about the fast that you should cant win something in the game while leeching afk or something like that, about world pop HNM if SE could reintroduce new HNM like a single window "force pop" 23h~(To slowly get a change in the time zone) after time of dead should be perfect!

So you just know exactly when he will pop = no camping

Whats the point again?

[Alhanelem]

Yes you right for the camping part it was a little borring but i talk about the fact that you should not be able to win something in the game while leeching afk or something like that, about world pop HNM if SE could reintroduce new HNM like a single window "force pop" 23h~(To slowly get a change in the time zone) after time of dead should be perfect!

So you just know exactly when he will pop = no camping
So in otherwords, you hate with a passion and seek to go after anyone who wants to or gets something for less effort than you took, that's what this thread is really about.

Well, that's what the botters were doing essentially... turn on your bot and stare at the screen, don't gotta do a damn thing.


So you just know exactly when he will pop = no camping
knowing when something will pop doesn't eliminate camping. We've been able to know when many NMs will pop next since the game's inception- that doesn't stop camping, in fact it makes it worse. The only difference is the amount of time you have to wait. You also seem to love competition, in which case I would suggest a more PvP oriented game. Most people in this game DON'T like competition- they want to play the game on their own terms and not by the luck of whether you get to fight something or not (And it's only even luck if nobody is botting or nobody else is there).

Look, I really hate to tell you, but what you want isn't something many people want. Give me complex, fun, challenging fights. I want that. What I don't want is to fight with other players over who gets the chance to face that challenge.

[Anewie]

I can't with this thread.

http://i52.tinypic.com/2mn5hxf.gif

[Hercule]

I still miss world pop HNM alot! and i know a lot of people that miss them too, i just hope SE planning on something a day,
Would be cool to have any type of reply from SE staff

[Duelle]

-Most of the TOAU zone should be revamped for this since old exp mobs here are useless with Abyssea.No. Aht Urghan mobs make magic casting classes relatively useless outside of flans that were targets of manaburns. You'd be taking people out of abyssea where anyone can join the party and get something and thrusting them back into TP-burn onry colibri parties.

-Theses mobs should be deseigned to be fight from old school 6 man Party.Ah, bringing back the "refresher" idiocy (because you know the devs would try to sneak it back in if they went with this idea). No thanks.

Very few people want to keep traditional 6 man parties for anything other than battlefields/events. For EXP/similar activities, traditional parties tend to exclude many jobs and are very stressful and annoying to form.This.

[Alhanelem]

necro bumping for the lose.

[Tiberius]

Do not want.

[Dazusu]

Do want. The more HNM the merrier.

[Return1]

I miss drama. It's a fucking MMORPG, a lack of drama is a lack of fun. You can say you hate drama, but we all know people love it. Drama isn't just the bad shit, it's like a story, good and bad. You will never see someone nearly as happy to get something today as they would have been years ago, and that's just sad. You'll never get to hear someone crying because they lost a drop or it got stolen, true, but it's in the same vein of, but not on the same level of, the US giving up major rights to protect themselves from the terrorists that want to put an end to their rights.

Teamwork and camaraderie is all but dead on a server-wide level. There's no social punishment for being a total douche, abyssea encourages low manning and stealing, and VW type drop systems remove LS government from events.

But it's okay, EVERYONE can get EVERYTHING, so it's okay right? That's so stupid. Everyone shouldn't be allowed the same things. If you can't/won't put in the work for a reward, then you shouldn't get the reward. It's like winning at the olympics, but then everyone who competed got a gold medal and a Wheaties cover. It's stupid.

Of course tjere will be some retards who will read my post the wrong way, there always are:

1) They'll say something about how I don't want everyone to be on equal footing and that's bad. That's not true, I want equal footing in game rules. I want equal rights for everyone, but the people who use and take advantage of those rights more should earn better rewards.

2) They'll say I want drama. You're damn straight I want drama. Just because you retards can't understand drama consists of more than bad things, and that the highs far outweigh the lows, doesn't mean everyone should suffer. It's the same as my example of giving up rights so your rights aren't taken. You're giving up more happiness so you don't have to deal with a blow to your happiness.

3) You want large groups! No shit I want large groups, it's an MMORPG. I'd rather need a group for everything thing than NIN/DNC or fire up a dual-boxed DD+WHM and profit. If you don't like groups, why don't you go get your ass on FFXII?

A lot of people complain about the old because they either never played the old game, or they're addicted to this new crack. Before they would work for long times and put actual effort in to get improvements to gear, and finally getting that gear would flood them with feel-goodness. Now they've been conditioned to get a constant flow of lesser feel-goodness, it's like a junkie constantly needing more to get the same high. The problem is, they can't increase how much more they get by playing more, they can only get more by SE lowering the standards and making it so they can get it faster. If this had continued, we'd eventually get to the point where all the good gear would be handed out by an NPC for free, and people would complain they needed to walk all the way to that NPC to get their items instead of it being d-boxed to them.

I think SE is taking the game in the right direction with the release of Legion. VW was a step in the right direction in an increase of difficulty, but the loot system and reliance on temps were both steps back. I like trials that involve sellable items, like the 99 Relic/Mythic/Emp line. Why? Because it puts everyone on even footing and gives you many ways to go about getting them. Seriously, you can buy 5 25mil marrows in a month of just Dyna farming, which isn't much for a large increase to some of the hands down most powerful weapons in the game. I like the idea of new nyzul, though I abhor the execution of a certain major point (Luck in climbing).

[Camiie]

I miss drama. It's a fucking MMORPG, a lack of drama is a lack of fun. You can say you hate drama, but we all know people love it.


Eh, I have a lot more fun without being yelled at by my own LS leadership and having to /blist everyone around who's not a member. While some people do probably love drama, I think you're just projecting your own ideas onto them.



Drama isn't just the bad shit, it's like a story, good and bad. You will never see someone nearly as happy to get something today as they would have been years ago, and that's just sad. You'll never get to hear someone crying because they lost a drop or it got stolen, true, but it's in the same vein of, but not on the same level of, the US giving up major rights to protect themselves from the terrorists that want to put an end to their rights.


I'll gladly sacrifice the occasional high to avoid the almost constant lows I felt before. There's nothing wrong with emotional BALANCE!! As far as terrorists and citizen's rights... I don't think this is the place for that discussion.



Teamwork and camaraderie is all but dead on a server-wide level. There's no social punishment for being a total douche, abyssea encourages low manning and stealing, and VW type drop systems remove LS government from events.

I've still seen people called out in Jeuno for scamming or other bad behaviors. My friends and I team up to do things just fine. I don't see a problem with encouraging low-manning, and I don't see how stealing is more promoted now than during the HNM days. My god back then people would pull out every dirty trick they could to get that Nidhogg off us, and we'd do the same to them. If you wiped all you got was laughed at. Nowadays while yes some people are still jerks about stealing, many more are likely to help you than were back in the old days. Just last night a duo wiped on an NM that we were also fighting. We claimed it before it depopped and allied them. They got their items and we got some +2s they didn't need. You think that would have happened in Dragon's Aery? I never saw it happen.



But it's okay, EVERYONE can get EVERYTHING, so it's okay right? That's so stupid. Everyone shouldn't be allowed the same things. If you can't/won't put in the work for a reward, then you shouldn't get the reward. It's like winning at the olympics, but then everyone who competed got a gold medal and a Wheaties cover. It's stupid.


Please. FFXI has never worked that way even during the height of Abyssea. You're grossly exaggerating and you know it. You think it's too easy, and that's fine but no one is being given a damn thing.



Of course tjere will be some retards who will read my post the wrong way, there always are:


Since what you typed below that line is meant only for "retards" I guess I'll just ignore it.

[Dazusu]

I miss drama. It's a fucking MMORPG, a lack of drama is a lack of fun. You can say you hate drama, but we all know people love it. Drama isn't just the bad shit, it's like a story, good and bad.

So true. Competition added a lot to the game.


You will never see someone nearly as happy to get something today as they would have been years ago, and that's just sad.

I don't know you, but I like you already.


You'll never get to hear someone crying because they lost a drop or it got stolen, true, but it's in the same vein of, but not on the same level of, the US giving up major rights to protect themselves from the terrorists that want to put an end to their rights.

Teamwork and camaraderie is all but dead on a server-wide level. There's no social punishment for being a total douche, abyssea encourages low manning and stealing, and VW type drop systems remove LS government from events.

It removes the need for a Linkshell, period. However, there was also a lot of HNM stealing back in the day, so it's certainly not restricted to this era of the game.


But it's okay, EVERYONE can get EVERYTHING, so it's okay right?

Depends who you ask, the casual crusaders seem to think so.


Everyone shouldn't be allowed the same things.

They can if they are willing to earn/work for it.


If you can't/won't put in the work for a reward, then you shouldn't get the reward. It's like winning at the olympics, but then everyone who competed got a gold medal and a Wheaties cover. It's stupid.

Doh, beat me to it.

Let me buy this man a beer.

[Yambo99]

I like Return1 to :)!



POWER TO THE HARDCORES!

[Karbuncle]

You will never see someone nearly as happy to get something today as they would have been years ago, and that's just sad.

Not that i disagree or agree with the rest of your post, But thats simply called life.

Eventually things you enjoy you may come to no longer enjoy some day down the line. And doing something a second or third time will never be as exciting as doing it the first time.

Read my very first post in this thread, It fits for you as well. Bringing back HNMs and Drama won't bring back what you're looking for. You may think it will, But when you have it, You will come to find it was just a pipe-dream of recapturing what you felt early on in this games life.

I know sometimes i sit down and wish i could go back to the times of being level 50-55 on my THF, Leveling up in Aht-Urghan, but this time, not being terrible. Go back to the time of leveling jobs 1-10 (Which are my favorite levels). But nope...

----

On one last point of Discussion. I know its an MMORPG, but large groups really hurt more than help. I can do low man events and still be on a linkshell with 40 people and get all the joy of Social interaction without being 29th in Line for the item i want. Thats why I enjoy Linkshells. They're for Social interaction!

Plus after reading your post closely, I'm 100% Positive you care nothing about HNMs or Legion, you just want exclusive/rare armor to afk in. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm seriously getting that vibe from you.


Before they would work for long times and put actual effort in to get improvements to gear, and finally getting that gear would flood them with feel-goodness. Now they've been conditioned to get a constant flow of lesser feel-goodness,

Have you even played since Abyssea? Tip: Say hi to Voidwatch. All the "fun" of HNM-Loot system, except everything you want is R/EX, you can't pool your items, and the drop you want is 0.5% and only goes to people who can't use it.

Again, You're wanting the excitement of getting a new item, like you felt back in the HNM Days. That will never happen. You will never recapture that excitement again. Personally i shat bricks when i got my THF AF Gloves, that shit was an achievement back when i got them. I was one of the first on server to own Ranparee Harness, It was awesome.

But I'll never recapture that excitement, Neither will you. I admire your dedication to thinking this will make everyone happier, but it won't. HNMs were a terrible system designed for an out-dated time. There was nothing positive about them. As you nicely pointed out for me, The best thing to come from them was reading the Drama on a Forum. Which while fun, gets old quick.

I know competition drives a lot of people, But they have first Person shooters for that. That, and FFXI may not be for you. Its not a Competitive game. They're moving away from that. If you don't like it, I say this truly, I'm sorry for you. But this game is going away from the HNM Camping times, and into an era the majority of the player-base can enjoy.

I applaud your enthusiasm, but like an update for RDM, its a pipe dream. I mean, i guess asking for it gives you something to do, so keep doing it, But It will likely never happen. But keep fighting the good fight. The second they bring back HNMs you may come to realize you're the only one camping it because 95% of the player base will have quit.

[Return1]

Eh, I have a lot more fun without being yelled at by my own LS leadership and having to /blist everyone around who's not a member. While some people do probably love drama, I think you're just projecting your own ideas onto them.

Then you had a pretty bad linkshell.


I'll gladly sacrifice the occasional high to avoid the almost constant lows I felt before. There's nothing wrong with emotional BALANCE!! As far as terrorists and citizen's rights... I don't think this is the place for that discussion.


If you had constant lows, why even play the game? If the lows were constant you wouldn't have played unless you're a masochist or an old addict. This is just my opinion, but not getting some kind of emotional high or attachment to your group or achievements in an MMO means you or the game was a failure. The sign of the game's success is that exact emotional high you're sacrificing.


I've still seen people called out in Jeuno for scamming or other bad behaviors. My friends and I team up to do things just fine. I don't see a problem with encouraging low-manning, and I don't see how stealing is more promoted now than during the HNM days.

You see those people called out in Jeuno for scamming, but then you join your VW shout and now you're groupped with said scammer because he has an Ukon. Odds are you aren't leaving because he's there. Before if someone ninja-lotted a drop, they'd be booted from their ls, have player warnings, and generally would have no option but the seediest shells on some other server, because nobody wanted to potentially have their E.Body/W.Legs/D.Chap/AA/etc ninja'd from them. They weren't nearly as tolerated or easily forgiven as they are today. No punishment, and a turn towards not needing a social structure/hierarchy to get things done, encourages stealing. There's a benefit to stealing with virtually 0 negatives, so if you're an unconscionable prick, it's to your advantage.

HNM was just a small section of 75 endgame, for a while post-75 Abyssea WAS endgame, hell it was most of non-endgame too. There's a bit of a difference in the scale in which they encouraged stealing/being a dick.


Please. FFXI has never worked that way even during the height of Abyssea. You're grossly exaggerating and you know it. You think it's too easy, and that's fine but no one is being given a damn thing.

Bullshit! They added an instant win button in Abyssea, and then made said instant win button piss easy to obtain. You could build an empyrean by being AFK 98% of the time. Seriously:

1) Go to a cleave.
2) Sit there while you aquire cruor/exp.
3) Take extra KIs.
4) Use cruor to buy Brew.
5) Kill NMs.
6) Repeat.

Hell you can join a FC, leech, and NPC cruor to buy anything you want in relatively short order, considering you were AFK the whole time.


Eventually things you enjoy you may come to no longer enjoy some day down the line. And doing something a second or third time will never be as exciting as doing it the first time.
Read my very first post in this thread, It fits for you as well. Bringing back HNMs and Drama won't bring back what you're looking for. You may think it will, But when you have it, You will come to find it was just a pipe-dream of recapturing what you felt early on in this games life.

There's quite a difference. The part I miss is the teamwork and strategy that went into events. My desire for those things never faded, they were removed from the game.

Oh boy, proc systems! Just a way to force a group to drag along extra people, on jobs no one cares about, and add mindless ways to cripple mobs.

Oh boy, massive Temps! Lets remove all difficulty from abyssea and add an instant win button, or on the other end of the spectrum, cover up flaws in monster difficulty by spamming fanatics and clerics to survive fights with constant, unbalanced aoe hate reset, charm, death moves.

Oh boy Cruor Buffs/Atma(cites)! Lets marginalize the importance of most gear, the obtaining of and knowledge of how and when to equip being one of the only gameplay factors players control, by adding superpowers!


Plus after reading your post closely, I'm 100% Positive you care nothing about HNMs or Legion, you just want exclusive/rare armor to afk in. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm seriously getting that vibe from you.

You're wrong. AFKing in badass gear is nice and all, but the best parts of the game are doing my job as best as I can, gear enabling that, and that feeling you get when you lead a group with a plan and you see the plan come together in the fight.

I hated HNMs and still do. Imho, Limbus/Einherjar/Assault/Nyzul is how all FFXI endgame should be modeled. They all offered great rewards, had a tiered progression, rewarded you based on performance, and everyone benefited. They could be low-manned, but required a plan and teamwork. SE seriously needs to look at those events and learn when coming out with new content.


Have you even played since Abyssea? Tip: Say hi to Voidwatch. All the "fun" of HNM-Loot system, except everything you want is R/EX, you can't pool your items, and the drop you want is 0.5% and only goes to people who can't use it.

I know competition drives a lot of people, But they have first Person shooters for that. That, and FFXI may not be for you. Its not a Competitive game. They're moving away from that. If you don't like it, I say this truly, I'm sorry for you. But this game is going away from the HNM Camping times, and into an era the majority of the player-base can enjoy.

You must not have read any of my posts that I've ever made. I care nothing for HNM, and I specifically called out VW's loot system as garbage as it removes ls government. All of the content I've mentioned as "good" involves the avoidance of direct competition, promotes players choosing when to start an event, and a benefit for everyone based on performance.

HNMs can die in a fire fueled by unwanted children in an orphanage. I want the 8-18+ Endgame LSes back though, and I want more content based off the same principles of Limbus/Einherjar/Assault/Nyzul to support said shells.

[Camiie]

Then you had a pretty bad linkshell.


From talking to the people I used to have to /blist but don't anymore (very nice people by the way), they put up with a lot of the same crap. Bad? In some ways maybe. Uncommon? Not really. Slim chances at claiming, low droprates, and people trying to validate themselves by their success in a video game tended to add stress and vitriol to situations where it never should have existed. Type A personalities, performance anxiety, and internet anonymity doesn't tend to make for the friendliest environments.



If you had constant lows, why even play the game? If the lows were constant you wouldn't have played unless you're a masochist or an old addict. This is just my opinion, but not getting some kind of emotional high or attachment to your group or achievements in an MMO means you or the game was a failure. The sign of the game's success is that exact emotional high you're sacrificing.


I had attachment to plenty of people. I still do. Outside of HNM there was fun to be had. HNM itself was more a means to an end. Back then you either did HNM or you stopped progressing. I wanted to play with my friends and progress so I did it. Was it always a nightmare? No. Was it as fun and joyous as a game should be? No. Am I a failure? I'm not someone with that high an opinion of myself, but I know I'm not a failure. I'm far from perfect, and I'll never measure among the elite. Is the game a failure? Partially yes. It's Final Fantasy, it should be as big as any MMO ever.



You see those people called out in Jeuno for scamming, but then you join your VW shout and now you're groupped with said scammer because he has an Ukon. Odds are you aren't leaving because he's there. Before if someone ninja-lotted a drop, they'd be booted from their ls, have player warnings, and generally would have no option but the seediest shells on some other server, because nobody wanted to potentially have their E.Body/W.Legs/D.Chap/AA/etc ninja'd from them. They weren't nearly as tolerated or easily forgiven as they are today. No punishment, and a turn towards not needing a social structure/hierarchy to get things done, encourages stealing. There's a benefit to stealing with virtually 0 negatives, so if you're an unconscionable prick, it's to your advantage.


How do you steal drops in VW? I didn't think there was anyone who knew less about it than I do.



HNM was just a small section of 75 endgame, for a while post-75 Abyssea WAS endgame, hell it was most of non-endgame too. There's a bit of a difference in the scale in which they encouraged stealing/being a dick.


That's the problem with SE. Whatever is new is the only game in town. They can't or won't support progression for different "levels" of players all at the same time.



Bullshit! They added an instant win button in Abyssea, and then made said instant win button piss easy to obtain. You could build an empyrean by being AFK 98% of the time.


Trust me, procing and brewing doesn't guarantee you'll get what you want when you want it which is what you're suggesting Abyssea is. Oh the mob will die for sure if you brew it, but the R.N.G. can still screw you over. Maybe you always get what you're after every time. You're definitely the exception.

[Return1]

How do you steal drops in VW? I didn't think there was anyone who knew less about it than I do.


I never said they'd steal VW drops. VW does play a role in killing social hierarchy and punishment for those that do steal though.


That's the problem with SE. Whatever is new is the only game in town. They can't or won't support progression for different "levels" of players all at the same time.


What? At 75 cap we had a ton of different "games in town", and they all supported different "levels" of players. Quests, Missions, BCNM, KSNM, ENM, ISNM, Assaults, Nyzul, Sky, Sea, HNM, Dynamis, Limbus, Garrison, Einherjar, Salvage, Campaign, Campaign Ops, SCNMs, etc. Every one of those events had something to offer as well.


Trust me, procing and brewing doesn't guarantee you'll get what you want when you want it which is what you're suggesting Abyssea is. Oh the mob will die for sure if you brew it, but the R.N.G. can still screw you over. Maybe you always get what you're after every time. You're definitely the exception.

The point was it was an instant win button, removing any work you needed to do. For Emp items, they were guaranteed to at least drop at least one. On top of that, you could just leech cruor/gil and just buy any Empyrean Armor/Weapon drop you wanted.

[Hercule]

I'm 300% agree with everything Return1 said

[Karbuncle]

Well its good you guys got hardcore Nostalgia goggles, I wish i could look back and pretend FFXI used to take skill or planning. All i remember is a trip to wiki, and after 1 run, You had it down to the letter.

FFXI Past and present are only different in one way. Present, the HNMs can be spawned, Past, they could not. Same Difficulty, Same everything. Its easy. Voidwatch is basically HNMs without the respawn timers. the Loot system sucks, But thats what we now have Legion for as well. HNMs with their old loot system intact.

Edit: It also seems that the final Voidwatch battlefield can only be entered once every 24 hours. You can just arrive 3 hours early and stare at the crystal, afk with bots on, and pretend your HNM Camping before you re-enter. Simulate the entire experience.

Yah, I'm bringing the sarcasm on real strong today, not sure why. You guys seem nice enough :D

[Glamdring]

much as I would like all the old HNMLS types to pack up and take it elsewhere (they sort-of have with Voidwatch already) I don't really care for the reintroduction of this kind of content. If they DO decide we need HNMs make them force-pop, and make getting the pops difficult. One of the worst elements of the old HNM crap was having to be ready for battle at 4:00 am because that's when pop window opened. I'm an insomniac, so once I've gotten to sleep I want to stay that way, plus I have to get up to get ready for work at 6:00 am. Force-pop I can plan for. And let's face it, the HNM should not go to "he who has the better alarm clock"

[Alhanelem]

I miss drama.No. Drama sucks. The only people that like it are the ones that are the primary cause of it for their stupid behavior, cheating, and/or dirty playing (e.g. trying to make other people wipe)

[Return1]

No. Drama sucks. The only people that like it are the ones that are the primary cause of it for their stupid behavior, cheating, and/or dirty playing (e.g. trying to make other people wipe)

Or people that realize drama consists of more than cheating/stealing/MPK, and doesn't just have negative terms.

You're in an RPG, supposed to be playing a role. That role doesn't have to be all fruity like RPfags who take it way too far. Your role could be a LS leader, a LS member, a freelancer, a crafter, etc. All of these things are involved in drama. The chance you have to work harder or longer for something, the chance that you could fail or HQ, the chance that others could screw you or surprise you with a helping hand, etc., all comes together to make the moment you do achieve a goal so much better than when you roll out with a dual box WHM and beat a dumbed-down hydra in the face to get generic powerful piece of equipment #173.

[Dazusu]

Same Difficulty, Same everything.

Ah, yes. I remember my first Fafnir kill back in 2005. Sitting there waiting for pop with my three Atma(cites) taking my Crit Rate almost to cap, Regain+2 and STR+50 from nowhere. Not to mention the auto-reraise from my brand new Destroyers. Also had boosted HP while in Dragon's Aery taking me to 4K HP and a never ending supply of temporary items replenished by the Darters we claimed mid-fight.

It was tougher to proc mobs back then though, but if you got a rolling proc on Fafnir you could burn it down in 9-10 minutes without it once using Hurricane Wing. At least you had Fanatics Drink to fall back on though. Even below 25% when it seemed to spam Hurricane Wing on our alliance 3-4 times in a row, but when anyone else claimed it - it only ever appeared to roar. Bastard thing. Almost wiped us - but our Revitalizers saved us.

It was fun just spamming WS's on the mob, there was absolutely no need to SC/MB to reduce alliance damage.

Ah -- how there's no need to miss those days, because everything is still the same.

[Lafaiel]

The HNM ship has sailed, there is a reason that almost every MMO in existence is moving away from that direction, its too easy to exploit via botting, and the number of people who want that kind of content is too small.

And Danzuzu, I don't always agree with karbuncle but you quoted a clip and took it out of contex completely, when they said "same difficulty, they were referring to the difficulty of the popped fafnir being the same as the old fafnir, they did not say that that difficulty back then was the same as now.

As for what you're looking for, I hear legion is pretty challenging, no atma, no temps. Looking foward to giving it a try.

[Dazusu]

As for what you're looking for, I hear legion is pretty challenging, no atma, no temps. Looking foward to giving it a try.

Legion is a great challenge. Already run it several times. Buffed versions of the old HNM - I hope more of this content comes along :-) - It's certainly not easy.


And Danzuzu, took it out of contex completely

Probably. I only skimmed the post.

[Camiie]

I never said they'd steal VW drops. VW does play a role in killing social hierarchy and punishment for those that do steal though.


I don't need a social hierarchy to have a good time. I have better gear and more experience than some people, but that doesn't make me a better/more important/more worthy person. Others have better gear and more experience than me. I respect that, but I don't treat those people any differently than the friends I have in AF3+1 and curor gear.

As far as the bad folks being punished for their actions, it still happens. You think people never got away with murder back in the day? Heh. Please. People hated and despised by the entire server could still weasel their way into an LS or round up enough sycophants to start one of their own.



What? At 75 cap we had a ton of different "games in town", and they all supported different "levels" of players. Quests, Missions, BCNM, KSNM, ENM, ISNM, Assaults, Nyzul, Sky, Sea, HNM, Dynamis, Limbus, Garrison, Einherjar, Salvage, Campaign, Campaign Ops, SCNMs, etc. Every one of those events had something to offer as well.


Questing? In FFXI? Really? I'm sure the number of worthwhile quests is more than I'm recalling right now, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to modern MMOs. They really dropped the ball here. Missions are more the precursor to endgame than endgame itself. Including Garrison is a bit of a reach. The others are fine, but you know what? Those things came over time, and don't necessarily nullify my argument that SE, especially today's SE can't handle multiple tiers of content at once. All those things are there, but you know how they've always been about leaving old content to rot while they focus on the new and shiny.



The point was it was an instant win button, removing any work you needed to do. For Emp items, they were guaranteed to at least drop at least one. On top of that, you could just leech cruor/gil and just buy any Empyrean Armor/Weapon drop you wanted.


The brew is a new concept, although you still had to put forth some modicum of effort to earn your 200k brews. You do know that before you get to that point they're 2mil a piece right? See, once you've cleared stuff it's easy to forget what you had to do to get to that point.

As far as leeching and buying your way to victory? That's nothing new at all. You know people have been doing it long before Abyssea existed.

[Hercule]

there is a category of player who miss old school FFXI gameplay, i dont see why cause some other category of player dont like this we should be bereaved of this type of event, if you dont like it just dont play this type of events, there is alot of more type of events,

SE should add "equivalent" stuff that drop from event type VW than world spawn HNM, and it should made everyone happy I think

Mix the new FFXI gameplay with the old one should made the best MMORPG ever in my opinion

[Return1]

As far as the bad folks being punished for their actions, it still happens. You think people never got away with murder back in the day? Heh. Please. People hated and despised by the entire server could still weasel their way into an LS or round up enough sycophants to start one of their own.

People who got away with murder as you put it, and found a group, either didn't run with as good a group as they could have, or the group suffered by his presence. Most of the "drama" that people talk about is generally more about someone getting their comeuppance for something they did before, instead of an innocent bystander getting screwed. And people who joined those shitty people got exactly what they deserved in the end: rode hard and put away wet.


Questing? In FFXI? Really? I'm sure the number of worthwhile quests is more than I'm recalling right now, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to modern MMOs.

Divine Might, Apocalypse Nigh, Storms of Fate, WSes, AF, Summons, Magic Scrolls, Lu Shang/Ebisu, Inside the Belly, and some random gear/gil. Not to mention some had interesting story lines.


The brew is a new concept, although you still had to put forth some modicum of effort to earn your 200k brews. You do know that before you get to that point they're 2mil a piece right? See, once you've cleared stuff it's easy to forget what you had to do to get to that point.

As far as leeching and buying your way to victory? That's nothing new at all. You know people have been doing it long before Abyssea existed.

No shit they cost 2mil, at one point. That's not too steep even considering how easy cruor is to get and the fact it's an instant win unless you really, really mess up. Then they made it an easily obtainable 200k by doing several things you could leech through as a level 30.

And while leeches are nothing new, the extent to which they've grown is mindnumbing. Show me somewhere during the 75 cap where you could essentially leech 30-Cap, make tons of money, and come out of it with some of the absolute best gear in the game, while being AFK 98% of the time, that didn't involve RMT/Botting.

[Sparthos]

If you want drama and "challenge" petition for PvP rather than the pseudo-PvP hogwash that was oldschool HNMs.

I look forward to sticking my penis in the faces of others when I kill people who have weaker gear than me. After that is over I'll harass you in tell for hours lecturing on how superior I am to you before signing up for another round of spanking noobs and bragging about being godly at this game in Port Jeuno.

[Hayward]

If you want drama and "challenge" petition for PvP rather than the pseudo-PvP hogwash that was oldschool HNMs.

I look forward to sticking my penis in the faces of others when I kill people who have weaker gear than me. After that is over I'll harass you in tell for hours lecturing on how superior I am to you before signing up for another round of spanking noobs and bragging about being godly at this game in Port Jeuno.

Afterwards, I'll get ready for school where I'll get stuffed in a locker (again) for high-capping about a video game.

Anyway, the whole HNM concept is past its sell-by date, as is the job/gear discrimination mentality. People aren't going for the "Relic/Empyrean <insert job> only" junk that comes from kiss-up, kick-down jerks--some of whom frequent this forum among others--who have nothing going for them beyond FFXI. HNM linkshells, if there's any justice, will remain a thing of the past along with the politics that came with them.

[Sparthos]

It's 3AM as I crawl out of bed and reach over to my cellphone while wiping away the crust from my bloodshot eyes as the phone's light hits my face and causes me to look away. I scroll down the list to my HNMLS' newest recruit and fire off a text bearing one word: Sandworm.

Don't show up to those 3AM runs? As Mitt Romney once said to much opposition: "I like to fire people."

[Puck]

I agree with the general consensus that these ideas are pretty bad. But this one's just retarded:

-Theses mobs should be deseigned to be fight from old school 6 man Party.

-Optional idea: 2 type of camp could be reintroducing "easy camp" like was Greater Colibri on lv 75, and advanced camp that require a realy old school setup with a real Tank, healer, black mages, DD, and based on Skillschain/Magic burst to deal real Damages of course with a reward from theses "advanced camp" more "Valor exp" per mobs.


Right, let's go back to the old 6 man parties where only a handful of jobs were invited and most people all had to wait around for hours until a Bard or WHM put their flag up, only to have them reject the invite with "NIN tank only" or "2 Bards only" or whatever other unreasonable demand.

Oh, and let's have a crappy selection of acceptable camps, and try to get TP burn melees to greatly reduce their output by setting up skillchains and magic bursts. Oh, and let's force it to be outside Abyssea, so all the mages can struggle with MP and ride their Convert timers just praying they don't run out at a crucial moment. Then they get to be useless for a few minutes while resting MP back, and if they're the healer, no more Exp for anyone until they're ready.

Yeah, let's go back to all that. It was SO much better.

Seriously WTF is wrong with you idiots that want the old Exp party format back? It was awful. It was the worst thing about this game. I've played this game for over 8 years, there's no way in hell I'd ever want to go back to that unmitigated sh*t.

[Karbuncle]

Ah, yes. I remember my first Fafnir kill back in 2005. Sitting there waiting for pop with my three Atma(cites) taking my Crit Rate almost to cap, Regain+2 and STR+50 from nowhere. Not to mention the auto-reraise from my brand new Destroyers. Also had boosted HP while in Dragon's Aery taking me to 4K HP and a never ending supply of temporary items replenished by the Darters we claimed mid-fight.

Sarcasm begets more sarcasm i suppose.

But on a serious note. Who is talking about Abyssea? I'm talking about Voidwatch, and Legion. Atmacites may exist in voidwatch, But they are nowhere near as powerful as Atmas were, and don't even come remotely close to providing the buffs you listed.

Legion is the whole HNM Experience, Without the botting and drama. Voidwatch gives players buffs, Mostly from Temp items, as those are what make Voidwatch easier, atmacites are like a side-bonus.

What my statement is driving too is that, Past or present FFXI, the game is easy. 2005 Fafnir, even being back in the Stupid ages of FFXI, was still easy to kill. FFXI has always been easy for good groups. The only difficulty was in getting the drops you wanted.


It was tougher to proc mobs back then though, but if you got a rolling proc on Fafnir you could burn it down in 9-10 minutes without it once using Hurricane Wing. At least you had Fanatics Drink to fall back on though. Even below 25% when it seemed to spam Hurricane Wing on our alliance 3-4 times in a row, but when anyone else claimed it - it only ever appeared to roar. Bastard thing. Almost wiped us - but our Revitalizers saved us.

You're taking my statement out of context, because you know darn well I was talking about Difficulty in battles, Not the actual content of said battles. I know you know this because i do not believe you to be an idiot.

but if we were going to take this posts seriously, and you are describing the negative aspects of recent changes, according to this post, All you want out of FFXI is mindless zerg fights with no real goal in battle other than killing the enemy. At least in voidwatch and legion there's some REAL form of co-ordination and teamwork with calling out procs and hitting them, Or managing 3 bosses at a time, which is ironically what you "miss".

I just can't see what was so fun about HNMs, but i understand you do. Still, They spawned 24-72 hours (Hydra/cerb long windows), Longer for HQ HNMs, You had to fight a horde of bots to claim, even if you claim, You had to hope they didn't try to MPK you, as well as deal with their berating remarks and drama, waiting for you to wipe. It was a horrible experience for all involved, the only reason people ever did it was for the gear.

One guy asked, Why we're so against them introducing it. If they introduced new World-Spawn HNMs, they'd have to give them new drops. Those drops would likely be useful. Meaning we as players couldn't just "ignore it" anymore than you can Ignore Abyssea, Voidwatch, or Legion if you want to get your good armor. It would introduce an Element of FFXI the majority do not want back, and if the armor was good, force them to participate.

We don't hate you guys, Just world spawn HNMs make my blood boil.

For the record, Sandworm, Dark Ixion, Hydra, Cerberus, and Khimaira are all still available for you to camp.

Edit: Vrtra, Jormungand, and Tiamat as well.

[Return1]

I feel like I present well thought out and valid points for my desires, but I'm grouped in with retarded mouth breathers that think World Spawn HNMs are a good idea.

[Karbuncle]

Its not that we don't want you people to enjoy FFXI, its just your enjoyment conflicts, and like everything else in the world, If someone disagrees with you, they'll voice their opinion on it. We don't hate you, we just hate World-Spawn HNMs. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Return1]

That's the thing, I've never said one thing in support of HNM or window camping, ever. I absolutely abhor the thought of more world spawns, but because I want content that requires a static 6-18 man group, that's well organized and coordinated I'm lumped together with people that want retarded world spawn HNMs. So unfair...

[Karbuncle]

That's the thing, I've never said one thing in support of HNM or window camping, ever. I absolutely abhor the thought of more world spawns, but because I want content that requires a static 6-18 man group, that's well organized and coordinated I'm lumped together with people that want retarded world spawn HNMs. So unfair...

I think I like you more.

[Camiie]

I feel like I present well thought out and valid points for my desires, but I'm grouped in with retarded mouth breathers that think World Spawn HNMs are a good idea.


You may take this the wrong way, but I can't help it. Stop throwing about words like "retarded," "mouth breathers," and "fags." How you communicate is just as important as what you're communicating. You come off in this thread as rude, obnoxious, and disrespectful and not just because of foul language. Your attitude just seems really bad, and your points are easily lost because of it. I mean, I would still disagree with a lot of what you've said even if you were nicer about it, but I could at least respect your opinions. You probably don't care what someone like me thinks about anything, but what the heck.

[Yarly]

1.5 hours of camping is much too long. They should lower it to 10-15 minutes like the current abyssea system. Procs are good too, keep those.

otherwise good post op!

[SNK]

After doing a ton of 2am to 4am Fafnirs, I never want to deal with world spawns again like that. Fuck that shit.

[Dazusu]

Legion is the whole HNM Experience, Without the botting and drama.

You misunderstand me. I'm not asking for HNM back - it was just an example of old vs. present. It can be applied to many things, such as Einherjar. That was a bastard when it was first released and thoroughly good fun.

Legion is exactly what I've been waiting for, and let there be a lot more of it.

The only real changes I'd like to see in the game are less (or no) temporary items during every encounter (Legion has started this). Technical challenge/gimmick fights. No more 'procs' and 'weaknesses' - they were a great gimmick to begin with, but its time to move on.

Still, I wouldn't oppose multi-zone HNM like Sandworm and Ixion. I quite enjoyed them, even though they're not everyone's cup of tea.

[Duelle]

One guy asked, Why we're so against them introducing it. If they introduced new World-Spawn HNMs, they'd have to give them new drops. Those drops would likely be useful. Meaning we as players couldn't just "ignore it" anymore than you can Ignore Abyssea, Voidwatch, or Legion if you want to get your good armor. It would introduce an Element of FFXI the majority do not want back, and if the armor was good, force them to participate.This. It then becomes something you're forced to take part into because of the lure of the gear climb. If you're gonna put the carrot on the stick, might as well be ome where we don't feel like we're wasting large mounts of our lives doing so.

That being said, my own expectations on what encounters should have easily make me expect next to nothing when it comes to boss fights in this game. I mean it'd be one thing if Fafnir caused cave-ins in Dragon's aerie where large boulders or even large pieces of tree bark (as this is inside Boyahda) that damaged everyone in the room or maybe people standing in the wrong spot at the wrong time after you got him down to 30%; or instead of darters and bifrons being just mobs that pop in DA, maybe have them be actual adds that join the fight at certain intervals. Instead we get procs (not a bad thing aside from the fact that certain jobs were not kept in mind when those were implemented), absorb modes and status effect auras. Kings and HNMs were never about mechanics, to be honest.

[Hercule]

Wanted necro bumping my thread too :)

[Rosina]

Wanted necro bumping my thread too :)
i read what i could and just wanted to ask, do you know that exp on mobs raised 100% and canb easily get over 600 exp in chains w/o waiting on lights?

but sounds good what i read.

just as long as nothing is on a 24+ hr cool down timer so i can log in and do it w/e w/o waiting and sitting there doing nothing but being bored :3

[Trisscar]

I sometimes form up with an old style exp parties. It helps me appreciate how much better level grinding has gotten.

[Natenn]

option 2 sounds like fun =D

[Rosina]

I sometimes form up with an old style exp parties. It helps me appreciate how much better level grinding has gotten.

i was in an old school valkrum dunes party as a puller tank war with a greatsword and sub thf....

tell me that ant OLD school it was fun and we had a PL :)

[Trisscar]

i was in an old school valkrum dunes party as a puller tank war with a greatsword and sub thf....

tell me that ant OLD school it was fun and we had a PL :)

It's nice if you can luck out and find a good group for experience. But, personally, I don't much care for relying on luck.

[Habu]

i was in an old school valkrum dunes party as a puller tank war with a greatsword and sub thf....

tell me that ant OLD school it was fun and we had a PL :)

That's not oldschool, that's just plain idiotic.

[Karbuncle]

Yes, I was playing back in NA Beta, and it was fun then, But doesn't mean I'm going to romanticize it... it was terrible, especially in Exp parties... you really couldn't do jack or Sh*t at any reasonable speed without a PL... Finding a good group was almost impossible, since Level Sync didn't exist... ROBBER CRABS!

CRABS AND CRAWLERS FOR 70 LEVELS!

Seriously though. Crabs and Crawlers.

[saevel]

But but ... it was the bestest best evar!!! People learned their job and we died so often, it was fun.

And and ... running 1 hr to get to camp was soo amazing, you could talk about all sorts of things.

...

..

Now I need to throw up

[Suteru]

You could get a whole 5,000 exp an hour if you timed your skillchains and magic bursts right in Bibiki Bay! And you only had to pay 10k for the chocobo!

[larrymc]

I apologize if this post is out of context of the current thread discussion - but as I was re-reading this thread, from the beginning - this post provoked a visceral reaction from me.


Nowadays its more like a flat game about emotions, there is still some emotions but the magnitude is not the same at all.

FFXI loose his taste day after day, because everyday we got the items we dreamed for too easily, we even can do all in solo/shout run, i realy miss a real LS teamwork

As one of the unfortunate who went 1/someungodlynumberineverwanttoseepilagain for Toci's Harness I disagree that the current state of the game is too easy, its just different than it was before. With old HNM, the time sinks were large windows, long RL respawn timers, and long waits for your "turn" for lotting rights in your HNM linkshell. That time sync has now been replaced with /random low drop rate (talking about VW specifically).

[Rosina]

That's not oldschool, that's just plain idiotic.

thats how we rolled in ps2 launch in the dunes on garuda.

[Rosina]

You could get a whole 5,000 exp an hour if you timed your skillchains and magic bursts right in Bibiki Bay! And you only had to pay 10k for the chocobo!

10K ouch... my server only had 1K choco for BB parties.

i did those trying to get my rdm to 70 back in treasures.. when i gave up and back lined with my nq staves... (god did that made me want to punch a kitten)

[Demon6324236]

thats how we rolled in ps2 launch in the dunes on garuda.

There is a time for everything, and that time has passed.

[Rosina]

There is a time for everything, and that time has passed.

ya even i was stating how rediculous it was. :P

big story how we did it. (sorry to funny to pass up) well i met a guy in ffxi who literally paid me to lvl with him. so we lvl for a while, i take a break come back. he invite me to level with him and someone else. we head to gusgen mine, as they wanted to see lvling (they quit in 02). we go there full party, mostly leechers. so we leave and trio in the dunes. and sorta just picked up 3 more ppl and found an LS who PL us.
outside the rediculousness of it, it was pretty fun. No one worrying about anything just killing getting exp and laughing at the parties pot head.

[Hercule]

But but ... it was the bestest best evar!!! People learned their job and we died so often, it was fun.

And and ... running 1 hr to get to camp was soo amazing, you could talk about all sorts of things.

...

..

Now I need to throw up

I completely agree with this,
Nowadays you cant find a free exp party, you pay gil and afk with RMT team this is 90% of currently exp party, this is sad.
And the 10% of free exp party, you just can come and play your job like you want, no one pay attention, there is no teamwork, its like a solo exp party but with 18 members where 50% are lv 30+ or semi-AFK.
Where is the fun?

[Arcon]

I completely agree with this,

You obviously don't get sarcasm.


Where is the fun?

In the actual gameplay, which is not EXP.

[Hercule]

You obviously don't get sarcasm.



In the actual gameplay, which is not EXP.

So, we should be able to choose which jobs we want to lv 99 in moghouse with D pad, no difference.
Or everyone should start FFXI with all jobs @ lv 99 from beginning...
If exping is now useless

[Demon6324236]

Hercule let me just point out not everyone who FCs is RMT, for instance, me. It is a way to make money and cruor for doing a simple monotonous task others do not want to do, and having them pay you in return.

Xp parties were rarely as fun as people make them sound, at the time they were a drag, and you wanted it to be over with. Yes they took more work, gave you more to do, had some actual features to jobs to use, but the problem was that it got boring. After leveling up it only took you 10 minutes or less to figure out everything new you got if you didn't already know. It took you a hour or so to learn most of how it worked and how to use it, and then it went back to the same monotonous formula for leveling. Now leveling can be done fast, and honestly somewhat to fast, but it is better than being dragged long for weeks or months to reach a higher level.

Also to add to this, not everything you learned in xp parties was relevant to endgame, somethings you can never learn till endgame. Learning as you leveled was a good thing but it dragged you along to much and made it boring for most people I think. Now you can hit high levels fast, learn everything in 1 go that you need to know most likely, and move on, it is a mass production of players at high levels, but until you learn what your doing you probably will not move outside of learning areas like abyssea xp parties, where you can learn not everything, but alot in time.

[Demon6324236]

So, we should be able to choose which jobs we want to lv 99 in moghouse with D pad, no difference.
Or everyone should start FFXI with all jobs @ lv 99 from beginning...
If exping is now useless

You can actually do that on the test server... Honestly though no, leveling is still there, just up to people to choose how they go about doing it. FCs are an easy way, keying is an easy way, GoV is a long way, and old school is the tedious way.

[Hercule]

Hercule let me just point out not everyone who FCs is RMT, for instance, me. It is a way to make money and cruor for doing a simple monotonous task others do not want to do, and having them pay you in return.

Xp parties were rarely as fun as people make them sound, at the time they were a drag, and you wanted it to be over with. Yes they took more work, gave you more to do, had some actual features to jobs to use, but the problem was that it got boring. After leveling up it only took you 10 minutes or less to figure out everything new you got if you didn't already know. It took you a hour or so to learn most of how it worked and how to use it, and then it went back to the same monotonous formula for leveling. Now leveling can be done fast, and honestly somewhat to fast, but it is better than being dragged long for weeks or months to reach a higher level.

Also to add to this, not everything you learned in xp parties was relevant to endgame, somethings you can never learn till endgame. Learning as you leveled was a good thing but it dragged you along to much and made it boring for most people I think. Now you can hit high levels fast, learn everything in 1 go that you need to know most likely, and move on, it is a mass production of players at high levels, but until you learn what your doing you probably will not move outside of learning areas like abyssea xp parties, where you can learn not everything, but alot in time.

So you really think SE should keep alive an exp gameplay system where the concept is 2-3 people working for money during 15 people AFK?

[Demon6324236]

Honestly depends how SoA is. There are 2 ways for the expansion to go, either it will be 100% endgame content, or it will have xp involved. If it has xp involved in it then they will need to bring back xp parties, they are doing much the same with tanking it seems, so I wait for that to choose where I stand on it. For now, I say leave it as it is, xp is ok, you have choices how to do it, not everyone gets their jobs FCed or keys for xp parties, those who do pay money to do it and everyone benefits, I see no problem with that.

[Hercule]

Experience points/ Merit points currently have no value, and we cant comeback in past about this, so thats why I hope SE plan on a new type of experience point, for SoA.

[Demon6324236]

Experience points/ Merit points currently have no value, and we cant comeback in past about this, so thats why I hope SE plan on a new type of experience point, for SoA.

So long as its done right, would be nice.

[Karbuncle]

(Don't think its all pointed at you here Demon)

Exp is already done right. If people don't like it being so quick, Go solo your way to 75~99 and stop forcing your tired ideals down our throat. Plain and simple. Right now you have two choices. Leech or Participate. Removing the "Leech" in favor of "Participate" is robbing 1 side of their preferred choice.

Maybe you don't like leeching as an option, well, Maybe i don't give a d**n about how you feel about leeching. Your opinion is no more valid then the guy who likes leeching, Because you're both offering personal opinions on how leveling up should be. Right now SE has given us a choice. No one forces you to use an Abyssea party. You can solo your way from 1-99, Probably at the same speed an Exp party used to do back in the day... Equip a Linkshell and go solo, all the social fun and slow grind exp without you forcing the crap down everyone elses throat.

Because its quite simple. Not everyone finds your idea of "Fun" to be their own idea of "Fun". Fun is Subjective.

As for the Expansion, SoA Was already described as an Endgame/High Level expansion. In an interview about it, I think on Alla, It was mentioned it would not be an Expansion for new players, But old players (level 99), That the other expansions already cover mid-game content, and SoA would focus on 99+ Content.

So again, Keep exp as it is, with options. You can either chose to Solo, Choose to Participate in Abyssea party, or Choose to leach. You have options. Sorry if you miss old school exp on Crabs and Crawlers for 3k Exp/hr, Times change, Games change, get over it. I can sit here nostalgiaing and hoping for a time to go back when I was doing SA/TA Distortion skillchains in Garlaige Citadel, with Freeze magic burst on crabs in Kuftal, But it won't happen, and I'm not going to act like everyone should be forced to experience it cause i want to again.

It's a time of the game that has come and gone, sorry if the truth hurts. Time flows one way, You're getting old, Things you like others might not like. Santa isn't real. Maybe i can get all these out of the way so you realize life sucks and that won't change, and the world does not revolve around you.

Edit; Come to think of it, That last paragraph can be directed at man complaining about exp, and the entire concept of this thread. Fits nicely. Kinda coincidental.

[Hercule]

Ya, i know what is the concept of "fun" in a videogame for you Karbuncle.

http://remyvanruiten.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/konami_code.png

[Karbuncle]

Ya, i know what is the concept of "fun" in a videogame for you Karbuncle.


So you've resorted to bad trolls. If i couldn't disprove your point enough, you're going to do it for me by running out of ideas and having no valid rebuttal for my argument, and actually accusing me of using cheats by implying I'm a cheater.

Its amusing because I've only ever leeched abyssea for one job, White Mage around level 50, Which i still cured and opened boxes. I'm not defending Abyssea because I'm an avid leecher, Its because I'm not so arrogant or ignorant enough to think that my opinion on fun is more valid than anyone elses, Like you do.

So Thank you. Ruining your credibility is much easier than i expected, since you did most of the work yourself.

Edit; And in case my above post wasn't obvious enough. It wasn't telling you your idea of fun was bad or wrong, It was telling you your idea of fun is no more valid than anyone elses like you seem to believe, and the game should offer the choice for all types. Leechers, Paritipcaters, and Soloers... Like it currently does, and nothing needs to be changed.

So kindly get your head out of your A** and recognize nothing revolves around you, and a Leechers method of burning to 99 to enjoy endgame content is no more valid or invalid than your own idea of Old school exp.

[Hercule]

So you've resorted to bad trolls. If i couldn't disprove your point enough, you're going to do it for me by running out of ideas and having no valid rebuttal for my argument, and actually accusing me of using cheats by implying I'm a cheater.

Its amusing because I've only ever leeched abyssea for one job, White Mage around level 50, Which i still cured and opened boxes. I'm not defending Abyssea because I'm an avid leecher, Its because I'm not so arrogant or ignorant enough to think that my opinion on fun is more valid than anyone elses, Like you do.

So Thank you. Ruining your credibility is much easier than i expected, since you did most of the work yourself.

Edit; And in case my above post wasn't obvious enough. It wasn't telling you your idea of fun was bad or wrong, It was telling you your idea of fun is no more valid than anyone elses like you seem to believe, and the game should offer the choice for all types. Leechers, Paritipcaters, and Soloers... Like it currently does, and nothing needs to be changed.

So kindly get your head out of your A** and recognize nothing revolves around you, and a Leechers method of burning to 99 to enjoy endgame content is no more valid or invalid than your own idea of Old school exp.

Ninja EDIT

Sorry, i dont have enough irl time to virtual fight against you and read you 3130 post around the forum, so i will just beleive what you say and tell you, you're not the one I thought,
I'm was just thinking you was someone that was ready to virtual fight till die just to be sure World pop HNMs will never come back in FFXI, because its like you should be "forced" to camp them by "someone" apparently... we'd say you cannot avoid them if they coming back, like a nightmare.
You say
the game should offer the choice for all types. Leechers, Paritipcaters, and Soloers...
But look like this not incluing people that like World pop HNM's, or everything that have something to do with the old FFXI.
But sorry you're not the one I thought,
Sorry for the disagreement. My apologies.

[Camiie]

Sorry, i dont have enough irl time to virtual fight against you and read you 3130 post around the forum, so i will just beleive what you say and tell you, you're not the one I thought, sorry for the disagreement. My apologies.

If you need more free time you should leech XP in Abyssea.

[Karbuncle]

Sorry, i dont have enough irl time to virtual fight against you and read you 3130 post around the forum, so i will just beleive what you say and tell you, you're not the one I thought, sorry for the disagreement. My apologies.

Really you aren't helping your case by this. Passive aggressive sarcasm and a Real life card... Shame on you.

Riddle me this Real_OG(Seewhatididthar), If you have such little free RL time, Why do you long for a time in FFXI where you get 3k exp/hour, Because it would realistically take you months to get to level 99, Assuming you even play long enough to stay in a party for an hour.

And, I'd also like to point out, If you're having a hard time reading about 10-15 Divided Sentence structure, How do you have the time to look up pointless screenshots and reply to me within mere minutes of me posting my reply? It seems a little contradicting my friend.

[Hercule]

@ Karbuncle:

1: I dont speak English verry well

2: I'm at work, sorry not the time to speak more about your usual anti-HNM venom

3: I dont care what you say now, because you repeat and repeat the same thing forever in all HNM threads

4: I dont play FFXI more than 2 hour/week~ currently, summer time, have something better to do these days

5: See you later, have fun of trolling my thread

[Zerich]

@ Karbuncle:

1: I dont speak English verry well

2: I'm at work, sorry not the time to speak more about your usual anti-HNM venom

3: I dont care what you say now, because you repeat and repeat the same thing forever in all HNM threads

4: I dont play FFXI more than 2 hour/week~ currently, summer time, have something better to do these days

5: See you later, have fun of trolling my thread



1: You seem to read and write in English fairly proficient.

2: If you're so busy at work, why are you on a video-game related forum.

3: Right back at'cha!

4: This is a blatant lie or you're an obvious troll.

5: Trolling's a two way street.



Hasn't this topic been beaten more times than Chris Brown's little black book?

SE's already given us the, "We don't care what the players think, we're gonna do our own thing." answer already.
Let it die.

[Karbuncle]

I'd laugh at it, But honestly, Its too easy. Almost feel sorry for him.

[wish12oz]

Santa isn't real.

YES HE IS JERKFACE!

[Hercule]

4: This is a blatant lie or you're an obvious troll.

No, what i wanted to say is: I play 2 hours/week~ in summer time (July, August)
And 5~10 hours/day in Winter :p


SE's already given us the, "We don't care what the players think, we're gonna do our own thing." answer already.
Let it die.

This way sound fun :) this should enclose the thread :p

"We don't care what the players think, we're gonna do our own thing." SE

[katiekat]

first Karbuncle , i may not always agree with you (this time i 100% do) but i love how eloquently you always say things ^^
next
what SE needs to do is emplment a simpel servay that pops up when you log in you have 3 opsins

1, yes i would like HNM world spon monsters back.
2, no i do not want HNM monsters back in the game.
3. i dont cair eather way..
that is the only way we can know for sure what the ancer is. i think the ancer will be overwelmingely 2 but as long as loot is able to be got by other means onistely what does it hert ?

[Demon6324236]

Honestly it would be a good for them to do a survey like that for the simple fact it would give good feedback on ideas from everyone currently playing the game, not only forums which have people who don't play, and only players who feel the need to go to the forums.

[Waldrich]

High Kindred's Crest x99 HKCNM's? I guess we can hope this coming...

It could drop pop items for "new HNM's"; NQ-HNM could drop HQ-HNM pop item. (as it's nowdays)
Pretty sure, HKCNM99 wouldn't be so easy.

But please add timed spawn "HQ HNM only" so HNMLS would be back for that free spawn.

SE need to keep their original plans and listen some valid feedback from players.

When new expansion come out just create a new Crest or Seal for the same system, it's working very well nowdays.

and please do it a challenge.

[wish12oz]

SE need to keep their original plans and listen some valid feedback from players.

They did listen, thats why they havent added new world spawns in a long time and changed kings. It's not how I would of liked it, but they did try at least.


first Karbuncle , i may not always agree with you (this time i 100% do) but i love how eloquently you always say things ^^
next
what SE needs to do is emplment a simpel servay that pops up when you log in you have 3 opsins

1, yes i would like HNM world spon monsters back.
2, no i do not want HNM monsters back in the game.
3. i dont cair eather way..
that is the only way we can know for sure what the ancer is. i think the ancer will be overwelmingely 2 but as long as loot is able to be got by other means onistely what does it hert ?

This would be cool, but theyd need a way to only give the survey to people who had a level 75 job before the first abyssea expansion came out, that way only the people who participated in endgame/refused to participate during the years HNMs mattered could be counted for the survey. Newer players arent likely to know anything about how it was and would skew the survey.

[katiekat]

Honestly it would be a good for them to do a survey like that for the simple fact it would give good feedback on ideas from everyone currently playing the game, not only forums which have people who don't play, and only players who feel the need to go to the forums.


thats why i think they need to do it most ofthe game does not even come near the forums hell i still find players that dont even know there is afisel forums. if they did a servay like that they would get a true gage of what players want.

[katiekat]

They did listen, thats why they havent added new world spawns in a long time and changed kings. It's not how I would of liked it, but they did try at least.



This would be cool, but theyd need a way to only give the survey to people who had a level 75 job before the first abyssea expansion came out, that way only the people who participated in endgame/refused to participate during the years HNMs mattered could be counted for the survey. Newer players arent likely to know anything about how it was and would skew the survey.


am not sure that maters if they did it or not i know frinds i had back when i did HNM's that did not know about them so i am not sure keeping it to only players that were 75 befor aby maters so much.

[Hercule]

Hi,

I wanted to put back my old thread up,
So, why?
Because I still think FFXI was epic before Abyssea, and I still think HNMLS war is what FFXI need to be back on top MMORPG ever, especialy now, because with SoA and this new SE "Gameplay politic" where you still camp, but now you camp /shout and /yell afk in town to access a "cool" NPC fight, cool, yes, but where you do not feel the reward of such access by an effort, and this is made it worthless.

Team work is only epic when you have a real opponent, otherwise-known a real team of Humans, this is what was HNMLS war, a real challenger (Humans team) to win acces to a tough NPC.

That what I think, and you?

Thanks for your attention, and have a good day.

PS: The "Anti-HNM Crybaby crew" is welcome as usual... #bot #cry #drama #I'llDon'tHaveTheEpicStuff #Die :)

[Hayward]

Your case was crippled in 2011. With MMOs like GW2 out now and FFXIV coming soon, you might as well not have wasted your energy necro-bumping this thread because your case is DOA. Why? Take a look at your server. People are thisclose to giving up on the game entirely and throwing in their lot with XIV in hopes that Mr. Yoshida's team have their $#!% together in terms of making the game accessible to as many people as possible, NOT just the no-lifers who for Gaia-knows-what reason still readily bask in the absurdity of Tanaka's philosophy.

[OmnysValefor]

If you mean HNM as in what most people mean by hnm, the camping, the botting, and the underhanded tactics. No thanks.

There's nothing positive you can learn from HNM that you can't learn from any force-pop boss.

Asking/requiring friends to greatly alter their schedule for a chance to claim something is stupid.

I think my favorite *reason* to bring hnm back was the guy that told me "I learned to watch my hate on blm at hnm.", as if you couldn't learn that in Garlaige Citadel.

[Direct]

I think they should be brought back maybe not on a 24 hour repop but a 6-8 hour repop might be better, there is plenty of people who still like the idea of hnms.

Not everyone likes vw/salvage/plasm farming etc, and not everyone liked hnms but that's no reason not to bring some back for the people who do. Casual content / hardcore content / hnm content, i see no reason why se can't add all 3 options.

[BST]

Dead horse is Dead.

If anything, clone the F.A.T.E system for out-in-field NMs, why not?

[raps1355]

Only if the drops are trivial and do not matter such as no stat good looking equipment just for show.

[raps1355]

This would be cool, but theyd need a way to only give the survey to people who had a level 75 job before the first abyssea expansion came out, that way only the people who participated in endgame/refused to participate during the years HNMs mattered could be counted for the survey. Newer players arent likely to know anything about how it was and would skew the survey.

No thats not enough, only people with the titles from that time should be in the vote.

[OmnysValefor]

Dead horse is Dead.

If anything, clone the F.A.T.E system for out-in-field NMs, why not?

You mean...campaign?

Aside from multiple battles per zone, there's not much difference.

[FrankReynolds]

This would be a great idea... If you were hoping to tank this game even faster than it is currently tanking.

[Damane]

This would be a great idea... If you were hoping to tank this game even faster than it is currently tanking.

The game isnt tanking at all. I really dont know how people get this Idea.

[FrankReynolds]

The game isnt tanking at all. I really dont know how people get this Idea.

I don't know... Maybe the dwindling number of people logged in at any given time, the difficulty with finding groups or the massive number of people posting on these forums about why they are quitting either because this game sucks, the producer has pissed them off or they are moving to FFXIV?

[Damane]

I don't know... Maybe the dwindling number of people logged in at any given time, the difficulty with finding groups or the massive number of people posting on these forums about why they are quitting either because this game sucks, the producer has pissed them off or they are moving to FFXIV?

thats nothing new, had such posts all the time in here with massive whining since years. Game is still around.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Do what they should have done to begin with. Get rid of EVERY NM and change them to forced pops.Superfluous text.

[Demon6324236]

thats nothing new, had such posts all the time in here with massive whining since years. Game is still around.Difference is, the quantity of those posts. Before the amount of people quitting was much smaller than it appears to be today, which means things are getting worse.

[Karbuncle]

thats nothing new, had such posts all the time in here with massive whining since years. Game is still around.

I'm sorry to say but massive ostrich-head-in-sand denial aside, the game has been dwindling for some time. Does that means servers are shutting down next month? No, But its not immune to the population decreases most if not all MMOs get in time. FFXI will live on for quite a time after most of us leave it, But it is still dwindling as it inevitably must.

[Damane]

I'm sorry to say but massive ostrich-head-in-sand denial aside, the game has been dwindling for some time. Does that means servers are shutting down next month? No, But its not immune to the population decreases most if not all MMOs get in time. FFXI will live on for quite a time after most of us leave it, But it is still dwindling as it inevitably must.

meh if it happens it happens. The whining here is just annoying, instead of maning up and going to do things people whine. Has allways been that way will allways be that way.

[Demon6324236]

The whining here is just annoying, instead of maning up and going to do things people whine.Please, tell me, what exact action am I to take? I do not wish to quit a game I have enjoyed many years, I want to stay. At the same time, I have many issues with the game right now of which I hate, the thing I do is make posts here, leave feedback, and try to get things changed to better the game. You make it sound like we take no action, we give feedback, complaints, and ask for adjustments or additions to things in game, the thing is, these are so often not responded to that it seems pointless. So please tell me, what action should I take, do I quit the game I want to play still, complain about the things I do not like in hopes that they are changed, or smile and accept that my game is not what it once was and ignore any hope of changing it or giving feedback so that my time on the game is much more miserable?

[Hercule]

Dear SE,

(Yeah, i'm back on my old thread again :p)
So, I'm back after a long break of FFXI mainly because i'm was waiting for REM upgrade (lv99 to lv119) +. i'm was busy IRL.

Now i'm finaly back in the game, but after reading forums and discutions, i see what you want to make for this game on future, with a vertical progression, and i really, really think this is an huge mistake.

The main reason why FFXI was so good (back to lv 75) was because you know when you spend time on something, it was going to be really a good investisment of time.
Now, you work to get new items, and 6 months after you can trash them because they are outdated by the new items, and this is really bad / demotivate...
I think, It's demotivating for most of players who really spend time in this game... (For me it is).

And that is why i still think, the best way to keep FFXI alive is bring it back to what he was at lv 75, because it worked, I've never had more emotions in a game than FFXI at lv 75 cap.

Of course, emotions was sometimes "feeling sad" but in counterpart we was "feeling euphoric" also. (Balance of life i guess)
And personaly if i have to choice, i prefer by far to having to go bad and good feeling, Than having this actual "flat" game without powerful contrasted emotions

The emotions are life, forge life, make life exciting, the emotions are the key to what we call "fun"
And I think, if you remove the risk of bad emotions (like you did with removing of the "unfair" world pop HNM), you also remove the good emotions (Balance counterpart)

I think FFXI should go back to old proven concept and stop this dangerous vertical progression that rape everyone every 6 months, it's the best thing you can make to keep this game so unique...
A timeless game...

Thank you for your attention

[Hercule]

Hello everyone,

Dear SE,

Now that we are almost in 2016, FFXI is still here, and this is great, I still love this game and all the new stuff that SE created these last years, now we are at the end of the Storyline with the final chapter I just would like SE to reconsider reintroducing the world pop HNM system as one of the possible end game system.

I really think it could be benefit, and give a second life to the game, not everyone loved this system, but there also alot of people who loved it and miss it.
It should be really sexy

Thank you

[Talraen]

Your original post talked about hard fights and working together and whatnot, and by all accounts, we totally have all that in 2015. All HNMs would add to the game is people having to wait around to not get a claim. Why would anyone want that? How is that compelling content? And more to the point, why would anyone say "Hey guys, we made a new feature - it's just like our old features, except you'll probably never get to do it!"

This is a terrible idea, let it go.

[Alhanelem]

The main reason why FFXI was so good (back to lv 75) was because you know when you spend time on something, it was going to be really a good investisment of time.
Now, you work to get new items, and 6 months after you can trash them because they are outdated by the new items, and this is really bad / demotivate...
I think, It's demotivating for most of players who really spend time in this game... (For me it is).You're griping about progression style, which is fine, but that has little to do with your topic title. I won't discuss this part of your post because it's irrelevant to the issue at hand (HNMs do not depend on a particular progression method, they can exist or not entirely independent of that)

The HNM system was badly designed from the beginning, and it encouraged cheating/botting all in a big war to be the one to get the right to fight a monster. Fighting the HNMs themselves was fun and I have great memories of the epic battles. Waiting several hours in one place doing essentially anything but playing the game itself only to watch someone fight the monster you spent hours waiting for was not the fun part. Yes, I know some people relished the competition. But I wasn't one of them. I only participated because it was the only way to get some of the best items in the game. The cheating was what really ruined it for me, but it the waiting game was never enjoyable in the first place. I can understand the argument that the terrible system and tons of waiting increased the excitement level when you finally got an item from it, but I don't need that. The game is (and should be) fun and exciting enough without that kind of gimmick being needed to enhance said excitement.

[Hercule]

Of course my original message from 2011 on first page is half obsolete now, but I still think that it could be really cool for the players that miss it to reintroduce some world pop HNM for current players level.

Nowadays SE could easily make the system better to avoid bot as I said, the difference between something you get right when you "want it" and something you "have to wait to get it" is huge, when you want and you invest time and efforts to get something it's always epic when you get it.

Just imagine if you could get all the epic stuff from the game for free (as a test server) then you will be happy 1min to get all thoses R/E/M and epic armor set, then you will stop the game.

I really think that it's benefit to have to work/wait/make efforts to get something because if it is not, then the value of your reward don't have the same taste.

it's like the difference between a rotten rich kid who has everything he wants when he wants and is bored of everything.
And the child of a poor family that's so happy to wait for a little Christmas gift that will make him so happy all the year.

That my point of view

[machini]

God, I sure am looking forward to spending 8 hour shifts sitting around waiting to attempt to claim an NM instead of playing the game, sleeping, or any other activity that's fun or useful.

[Catmato]

God, I sure am looking forward to spending 8 hour shifts sitting around waiting to attempt to claim an NM instead of playing the game, sleeping, or any other activity that's fun or useful.

Think of all the reading you could do, or other games you could be playing for 29-minute stretches.

[Alhanelem]

dear lord. I had no idea I was replying to an old thread lol.


it's like the difference between a rotten rich kid who has everything he wants when he wants and is bored of everything.Somehow I knew you'd say something like that. The problem is, to me it's the people who step all over you for the claim and win the drops that you don't even get to try for, they are the spoiled rich kids.

The challenge of getting loot in this game should be difficult battles, not being the first person out of a hundred to press Provoke. That's the way it is now, and I don't see many people complaining about that.


Think of all the reading you could do, or other games you could be playing for 29-minute stretches. I sure love paying a monthly fee to play my offline games and read books. I don't know how I ever would have done those things without HNM claim windows.

[Catmato]

I sure love paying a monthly fee to play my offline games and read books. I don't know how I ever would have done those things without HNM claim windows.

Woosh.1234

[Alhanelem]

Woosh.1234
Nope, not woosh. I figured it, I was just covering my behind in case you were serious. You never know for sure on this board...