[To the Devs] make it game free to play like most Korean games

[hordecore]

and add in-game market where you sell items for real money you will make alot of money from ur regular monthly subscription you can add in the market:

1-special chocobo mounts with 200% speed can summon anytime

2-special armors and customes with bonus

etc...

[Tagrineth]

FUCK NO. -_________-


For the record I know these are trolling. but this particular topic deserves a shutdown

[Alhanelem]

korean games suck

[svengalis]

$5 for chocobo armor. LOL

[Lafaiel]

Good troll there.

[Catsby]

F2P would be better honestly. Most of the people around here are ill informed straw man the F2P argument with "I don't want people paying money for relics" like they don't already or that microtrans is still stuck in in 2004.

[hordecore]

and F2P will attract more players fun fun times

[sruon]

Not a bad idea, would bring a new flow of players.

[hiko]

add the banhammer into buyable items

[Alhanelem]

Not a bad idea, would bring a new flow of players.
No, it wouldn't. It would bring in a new flow of people that would play for 2 days and quit

[Catsby]

No, it wouldn't. It would bring in a new flow of people that would play for 2 days and quit

Where's the problem in that? You don't want new people to see the game for what it currently is?

[Zumi]

They should go to the free to play route might bring some new life to the game. A lot of MMOs are going free to play LotR, Everquest 2. The companies actually make more money on their game after it goes f2p then when they were charging a monthly fee.

[Catsby]

They should go to the free to play route might bring some new life to the game. A lot of MMOs are going free to play LotR, Everquest 2. The companies actually make more money on their game after it goes f2p then when they were charging a monthly fee.

Part of the problem is that F2P games are built from the ground up to be or heavily restructured to be F2P. F2P doesn't magically rejuvenate an MMO unless it's carefully constructed to do so. It's a lot of hard work and frankly, not something SE is capable of right now. Especially when they'd rather dump resources into fluff titles and resurrecting DoA ones.

[Alhanelem]

Where's the problem in that? You don't want new people to see the game for what it currently is?
The problem in it is it does nothing for the game. You'd get a horde of ADD kids who don't want to pay money for anything, play for a few days, then they'ld be off to the next game. Heck, most of the people I know who have joined the game and paid for it are already like that. A few extra players that aren't going to take the game seriously isn't going to help matters, especially if a crappy-ass cash shop is added. IN the case of FFXI, I'd imagine it would be more like the DDO/LOTRO/CoH strategy of unlocking content piecemeal (e.g. $5.00 for salavage, $3.00 for an NM pack, $2.00 for each assault area, etc.)insetad of offering gameplay advantages and cosmetics.

[Catsby]

The problem in it is it does nothing for the game. You'd get a horde of ADD kids who don't want to pay money for anything, play for a few days, then they'ld be off to the next game. Heck, most of the people I know who have joined the game and paid for it are already like that.

No, the problem is that the game does absolutely nothing to afford F2P. Log into the POL right now and you'll see an advert for Heroes of Abyssea, the closest thing to microtrans this game has to offer. When did that come out? Nov 2010. Is there a reason to buy it twice? Not unless you have multiple accounts.

Successful F2P never sells content or power. It sells novelty, individuality and convenience.

[Arek]

Free to play : NO THANKS

[Tagrineth]

They should go to the free to play route might bring some new life to the game. A lot of MMOs are going free to play LotR, Everquest 2. The companies actually make more money on their game after it goes f2p then when they were charging a monthly fee.

Now if you think about that for a second... "the companies actually make more money..."

You know why?

Because F2P games, if you actually want to play them as intended, are more expensive than P2P games.

[Catsby]

Now if you think about that for a second... "the companies actually make more money..."

You know why?

Because F2P games, if you actually want to play them as intended, are more expensive than P2P games.

Quit spreading misinformation.

Just about every successful F2P game is exactly that: Free. If you chose to spend more on it than what a game generally cost with its wrapper on that's your choice.

I've been playing League of Legends since shortly after launch and will continue to play as long as new content continues to trickle out. How much have I spent on this F2P? 50 bucks. How much have I spent on FFXI ? Well if you tally up my subscription, mules, expansions, and add-ons you are looking at about 800 bucks, maybe more. F2P is totally more expensive :/

[Alhanelem]

No, the problem is that the game does absolutely nothing to afford F2P. Log into the POL right now and you'll see an advert for Heroes of Abyssea, the closest thing to microtrans this game has to offer. When did that come out? Nov 2010. Is there a reason to buy it twice? Not unless you have multiple accounts.

Successful F2P never sells content or power. It sells novelty, individuality and convenience.
Maplestory sells power (for a pretty high price I might add), and it's the most successful MMO there is. (example: various kinds of enhancement scrolls can blow up your items if they fail to work. You can buy Shielding Wards for $11 each that will prevent the item from being blown up, and the protection goes away even if the item wouldn't have blown up. They can't be used after a certain number of successful enhancements, so people will still spend lots of money on an item, blow it up, and keep trying til they get it perfect... I cant imagine how much money these people spend)

DDO sells content, and became vastly more successful than it was when it was bought whole and solely subscription based.
In that game, you can play free and earn (through a LOT of grinding) or buy turbine points, and unlock quest packs or new races/classes and such. Or, you can subscribe and have full access to everything from the get-go (Anything you've bought remains unlocked when you cancel).

[Catsby]

Maplestory sells power (for a pretty high price I might add), and it's the most successful MMO there is. (example: various kinds of enhancement scrolls can blow up your items if they fail to work. You can buy Shielding Wards for $11 each that will prevent the item from being blown up, and the protection goes away even if the item wouldn't have blown up. They can't be used after a certain number of successful enhancements, so people will still spend lots of money on an item, blow it up, and keep trying til they get it perfect... I cant imagine how much money these people spend)

DDO sells content, and became vastly more successful than it was when it was bought whole and solely subscription based.
In that game, you can play free and earn (through a LOT of grinding) or buy turbine points, and unlock quest packs or new races/classes and such. Or, you can subscribe and have full access to everything from the get-go (Anything you've bought remains unlocked when you cancel).

So what you're telling me is that these two games sell shortcuts through their systems? That sounds like a convenience to me. By power I meant outright and otherwise unobtainable. In other words, you slap down 20 bucks at the MTX shop and walk away with a sword that's exclusively available for real cash and better than what you can reasonably get through gameplay.

Also, DDO didn't start off F2P if I remember correctly. So we are talking about a game that was gerry rigged to be F2P. It might be more successful now that it is but it would probably way more successful if it started that way.

[Alhanelem]

So what you're telling me is that these two games sell shortcuts through their systems?No, they sell power (maplestory: Highly upgraded items like I described are virtually impossible (Not literally impossible, but so statistically improbable that nobody is going to do it in your lifetime without using cash items) to attain without buying the protection scrolls and even they don't always work or help you) and content (DDO: Quest packs). You can buy items that boost stats and can be worn over regular items that also boost stats, you can buy items that randomly add new stats to stuff and can't be done any other way, you actually have to pay money to search the market for a specific item, and pay money to open a shop in it.


Also, DDO didn't start off F2P if I remember correctly. You remember incorrectly. It was originally a retail game with a subscription only. later (after getting down to two servers) they relaunched as "DDO Unlimited" with free-to-play (And now there are many servers- the game is vastly more populated now than it was before), but you need to earn or buy content packs to be able to easily progress past a certain level. You can also get a "VIP subscription" which is just like what was had before it went free-to-play, it's simply optional now.

[Tagrineth]

Quit spreading misinformation.

Just about every successful F2P game is exactly that: Free. If you chose to spend more on it than what a game generally cost with its wrapper on that's your choice.

I've been playing League of Legends since shortly after launch and will continue to play as long as new content continues to trickle out. How much have I spent on this F2P? 50 bucks. How much have I spent on FFXI ? Well if you tally up my subscription, mules, expansions, and add-ons you are looking at about 800 bucks, maybe more. F2P is totally more expensive :/

Even the fucking example you give has paid services, but congrats on kneecapping your own argument.

[Alhanelem]

Just about every successful F2P game is exactly that: Free. If you chose to spend more on it than what a game generally cost with its wrapper on that's your choice.Most F2P games are designed such that progressing past a certain point is difficult or in some cases impossible without paying something. League of Legends is probably one of the few free-to-play games that is truly free and real money is never a requirement or highly necessary. You can unlock everything in the game just by playing it (though it will take a long time) and the real money only buys you alternate skins for your champions (or speedier unlocks, but the earned points for unlocking stuff come at a fair rate)

[Lafaiel]

Don't forget to add the pvp with enchanted weapons that make or break a fight you get into, and to enchant that weapon or armor they have to implement a mechanic so frustrating the only way to fix it is to add an item you can buy on the store to do remove the rng chances. we need that unbalanced pvp if they do F2P, that would really seperate the men from the sheep. we need real ganking in an F2P to make it work like a korean F2P so can't leave that out.

By the way, with all your replies I bet hordecore is laughing his ass off right now.

[Catsby]

Maplestory and DDO are oldschool MTX and exactly the type of game used to villainize F2P. If you look at more recent games you will see that the ones frequently discussed basically sell you stuff that makes you look different or things you can already attain by just playing (sometimes both!).

It doesn't really matter though. FFXI still can't afford new or oldschool F2P because add-ons don't come out frequently enough and development doesn't seem to care about blinking characters.

I do want to bring up a couple points though;

Tons of games out recently or coming soon are F2P because that's the best way to attract a large audience when you are confident with your game. You are setting the barrier to entry really low and getting more people to try it out. If they think it sucks then chances are they probably wont be back again. If they think it's worth money they will pay whatever amount they want. That's how F2P games survive and it shouldn't surprise anybody when a player pays anywhere from 10 to 1000 dollars before quitting. Case and point; LoL, HoN, Crimecraft, and countless others.

I also want to bring up SWTOR because I feel like it will help people understand that subscription models are more expensive for players. That game is rumored to cost somewhere between 150 and 500 million dollars to develop. That's a shit ton of money and in order to get it all back with profits EA and lucasarts decided to go MSRP and subscription based for their game. Why? Because it's safer financially and subs cost the player more money. In order to get in you need to pay 60 bucks and after that you might find out you hate it. If not, it's going to cost you like 15 dollars a month until you do hate it. Before realizing you hate the game you will easily pay between 60 and (if the game lasts a good 5 years) 1000 dollars.

[Alhanelem]

Maplestory and DDO are oldschool MTX and exactly the type of game used to villainize F2P.Actually, I wasn't trying to villianize F2P with DDO, only point out that there are games where the base game is free but you pay to unlock peices of content (The somewhat good part about this is you don't need to buy content you don't want to play). I actually quite enjoyed DDO and I use it as an example of a game that had a successful re-launch (when people diss FFXIV and say it has no chance to come back).

MapleStory is brutal in how it makes you want to use the cash shop however. Even compared to Nexon's other titles. Vindictus for example, has a very normal looking auction house. Anyone can use it, even if you never give nexon a dime. Maplestory is their flagship game though, so they make tradeoffs in their other games and keep MapleStory overly costly to be good in. You can't even trade on the free market without paying them a couple bucks.


Because it's safer financially and subs cost the player more money.Really not true. While many players will play a f2p game and not pay anything, the people that spend money tend to spend a lot. Some people in MapleStory for isntance will spend hundreds of dollars to craft the perfect weapon (or in some cases, they use hacks, trade the hacked weapon and get banned, and the weapon never gets removed). This is far more than enough to make up for all the people who never give them a dime. Nexon rakes in money hand over fist with just that one game, and it has several. I actually played MS for quite some time and got a few things on the cash shop. One thing here, another there. It doesn't feel like much when you buy it- but when I added it up, it was more than the $12.95 a month I pay for FFXI.

[Runespider]

Pay £5 for the VW armor I'm 0/60+ on instead of endless grinds? Since SE can't implement a better system, sign me up!

Yes I'm joking...maybe.

[Catsby]

Really not true. While many players will play a f2p game and not pay anything, the people that spend money tend to spend a lot. Some people in MapleStory for isntance will spend hundreds of dollars to craft the perfect weapon (or in some cases, they use hacks, trade the hacked weapon and get banned, and the weapon never gets removed). This is far more than enough to make up for all the people who never give them a dime. Nexon rakes in money hand over fist with just that one game, and it has several. I actually played MS for quite some time and got a few things on the cash shop. One thing here, another there. It doesn't feel like much when you buy it- but when I added it up, it was more than the $12.95 a month I pay for FFXI.

For most people subscriptions will cost more simply because they are required to pay immediately and at intervals. If you manage to go the length of a F2P game without paying anything then good on you. If you pay 2000 dollars that's great! You are pretty much subsidizing development at that point. The most important point to consider is that, regardless of the F2P game, you are in control of how much you pay. What is being sold is usually a matter of design.

[Alhanelem]

For the average person, yes, but you have a handful of people that spend ridiculous amounts of money on the game, and these people more than make up for the ones who do not. So subscri


If you manage to go the length of a F2P game without paying anything then good on you. I don't know anybody who has played an F2P game for as long as it has existed and didn't buy anything.


you are in control of how much you pay.on a literal level, yes, but they have ways of compelling people to buy. In MS, for instance, if you want to participate in the economy pretty much at all, you need to pay at least $1.80 every 3 months for a shop stall. Not a whole lot, no, but they get at least this much from just about everyone who plays the game for more than a few days.

Subscriptions do yield a steady flow of cash, but it's a fixed amount. Successful F2P games make much more money per player because there's no limit on the amount of money they can get from someone.

One of their newer ways to make money is to offer programs to get free game cash- if you're willing to spend an hour on a survey or are willing to allow yourself to be bombarded with a million WIN A FREE IPOD NOW! ads and maybe some malware installs. In this way, they get money from the advertisers that provide the offers instead of the players. Thus, people who cant spend money on the game get their share of Cash, and the players that do just buy it, so they get money from even more people.

[Crawlerbasher]

No thanks.
I'm happy paying for this game.
Don't want to pay, then don't play.

For a monthly fee I get ingame support, updates and SE gets a pay check.

[Camiie]

With F2P at least we'd finally get our money's worth out of the current dev team.

[Koroma]

Dear Hordecore while i find your signature questionable, your ideas are still better then Tanaka's

[Tohihroyu]

Just what this game needs! MORE RMT!

SE really needs to put their foot down on this RMT crap, even the trial restrictions are not enough -_-

The party of Taru RMT I STF'd a few weeks ago? I still see them. I know what you supporters will say "LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL GET OVER IT UR JUST LOLMAD CUZ U DON'T BUY GIL LIKE US GREAT PLAYERS DO LOOOOOL SUCK LESS PLZ"

[FrankReynolds]

Just what this game needs! MORE RMT!

SE really needs to put their foot down on this RMT crap, even the trial restrictions are not enough -_-

The party of Taru RMT I STF'd a few weeks ago? I still see them. I know what you supporters will say "LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL GET OVER IT UR JUST LOLMAD CUZ U DON'T BUY GIL LIKE US GREAT PLAYERS DO LOOOOOL SUCK LESS PLZ"

Why do you try to turn every single thread that you post in into a discussion about RMT?? Why are you so obsessed?

[Atomic_Skull]

I do not want to see FFXI go Pay to Win.

[Kimble]

Just what this game needs! MORE RMT!

SE really needs to put their foot down on this RMT crap, even the trial restrictions are not enough -_-

The party of Taru RMT I STF'd a few weeks ago? I still see them. I know what you supporters will say "LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL GET OVER IT UR JUST LOLMAD CUZ U DON'T BUY GIL LIKE US GREAT PLAYERS DO LOOOOOL SUCK LESS PLZ"

"great player" and "buy gil" are an oxymoron.

[Eroniris]

"great player" and "buy gil" are an oxymoron.

Remove Oxy, just moron

[Runespider]

The party of Taru RMT I STF'd a few weeks ago? I still see them. I know what you supporters will say "LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL GET OVER IT UR JUST LOLMAD CUZ U DON'T BUY GIL LIKE US GREAT PLAYERS DO LOOOOOL SUCK LESS PLZ"

Honestly I don't think the STF even exist anymore, or at least not as they used to. Report RMT (nothing happens) report people blatantly using 3rd party apps (nothing happens). Waste of time reporting stuff.

[CrAZYVIC]

Is a decent idea.

The good of this.

A massive incoming small parties playing grounds of valor
The servers will have now 3500 - 5000 people average all day.
Abbysea exp Allies more often. Like 4 - 5 months ago.
A lot of new linkshells will be maked.
We can pay now FF14 and keep enjoying FFXI free!


The bad

They will Overcrow abyssea like the hell
They will camp over YOUR FUCKING face in dynamis stealing your camp and forcing you move.
The devs will STOP of care about us 1000%. If now they ignore us 99% they will say kk is f2p fuck all.

Even if this can cause some troubles in my opinion we end wining more than losing

Oh and i was thinking hordecore was death already, who the hell raised him? ^_^

[Camiie]

I do not want to see FFXI go Pay to Win.

I don't either, but in the past it kinda was that way. It's just the ones who got paid were RMT instead of SE. I didn't and you probably didn't, but a lot of people apparently did for RMT to have been as successful as it seemed to be.

[Zerich]

close this thread please, OP is a troll.

[axlzero]

if you goto a pay real money system then restrict it to pay to get in game gil and skillup levels in crafting and pay for spells also anything that can be put on the AH can be bought for rl money or items used to pop nms the armor that everyone want should still be earned the old fashon way like killing over 30 king behemoths for a d ring or doing limbus over and over again for homams armor ect ect thats what up players have been around forever have had to do they should suffer like the rest of us. this is just an ideah but if they do that i would like to see a system to trade in conquest points for dynamis money mercanary points for alexandrite and so forth i read a lot of post but not all of them

[Malamasala]

I do not want to see FFXI go Pay to Win.

Don't worry, it will stay Pay to Lose.

Sorry, couldn't resist it.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

close this thread please, OP is a troll.They're still on vacation.

[Thanotos]

i dislike f2p games, i havent found a single one that has any depth what so ever, not to mention all the glitches/hacks, poor design, lackluster gameplay, shitty graphics, shitty sound/music, shitty mechanics, battle system sucks, most mimic each others UI and gameplay, list just goes on and on, there is a reason they are f2p cause they cost lil to nothing to make compared to something you purchase retail and would sub to which is the entire point, to make money. i'd rather pay 1000s of dollars to a crazy amazing game, then spend 50 bucks on a another shitty f2p, which turns out to be both a waste of money and time and was no fun at all, even if the game i spend 1000s on inevitably turned out to be crap, at least it was money spent on a company that actually tries to produce new age products instead of taking the gaming industry in the wrong direction by continually producing shit that i used to think was awesome in the 90s.

[Thanotos]

edit: i am not talking about p2p that went f2p, at some point old games will have to run the course of f2p which is fine, and has nothing to do with my previous post. a great example is DCUO, some people like to compare it to city of heros/villians, which arent even comparable. It's combat system alone is amazing and the fast action game play is incredibliy addicting, the paper rock scissors pvp can be annoying but u rarely run into something like that unless its 1 on 1, point is, it's raising the bar on how mmos should play and feel.

[Alhanelem]

i dislike f2p games, i havent found a single one that has any depth what so everLeague of Legends, Vindictus both want a word with you. Vindictus has a pretty good storyline that is told through every mission you go on, all the way from the first level to the maximum. (though it's more like a satisfying "beat-each-quest-to-see-the-next-part-of-the-story").

[Deadvinta]

They can't do this because of something having to do with limiting PS2 balance or something I dunno.