Who ever got six-person parties in the first place?

[Edyth]

First of all, the topic title is both a hyperbole and a rhetorical question. Look those terms up before you post a stupid reply directly to the topic title so you don't look like a moron.

So I've seen a few loudmouths moaning about how they can't get a six-person party anymore.

But who ever got six-person parties in the first place? Don't you remember your LS members saying "Damn, I been seeking for a hour and no invite." "Lol I been seekin for 3." "I got invited to a party irl today, and it's been two weeks since I got an invite in this...."

All the camps were always full, the "Find Member" function always found 0 PLDs, NINs, WHMs, RDMs, and SCHs seeking, and BST, BLU, SMN, PUP, DNC, DRK, and even one of the most important endgame jobs, BLM, were more or less banned by players from participating in Colibri parties. You needed a specific setup to be a "good" party. Anyone who had those jobs was level 75 in no time, even with the old, slow EXP. I saw maybe 3 CORs ever seeking a party, and BRDs were rare too. The six-man party required a few specific jobs, and those jobs would be snatched up within 10 seconds of seeking. The parties often took over an hour to put together.

What the **** was this ****? Why do you want it back? You can still make these parties, and the EXP is better than it ever was for this type of party, but the fact is, they were just a pain in the ass. With 18 slots for Abyssea parties, any job can play. With Grounds of Valor allowing easy prey targets to give good EXP, the same situation there: all jobs are helpful. And these groups are easy to put together.

Maybe for some people FFXI is all there is to real life, but for me it's a game. The fact that FFXI is now less of a chore + job + 24/7 homework assignment + alternate life is pretty fun I think.

EDIT:
To whom it may concern, I did make my own parties. I didn't wait around hoping for an invite on Summoner. The examples in my post are from my own experiences while creating parties on Midgardsormr.

[Flionheart]

I always made my parties. I never had an issue in making a party in a timely manner.

More people should have taken the initiative and invited people instead of complaining about no invites.

[Sparthos]

I frequently made parties but nothing can stop LFPs like this:

WAR
WAR
WAR
BLM
DRG
THF
SAM
MNK
BRD: (seacom: LFP Colibri only, 4 SAM only, fisherman X)

[Vold]

I frequently made parties but nothing can stop LFPs like this:

WAR
WAR
WAR
BLM
DRG
THF
SAM
MNK
BRD: (seacom: LFP Colibri only, 4 SAM only, fisherman X)

You forgot the princess Ahauberk warriors or princess SAMs or princess Apoc DRKs who often put "2 BRD or BRD+COR only" in their seacom. And let's not forget the game of 20 questions you had to go through once in awhile when someone was trying to avoid joining a "bad" PT. Those days were so great I miss them a lot. Not.

If there's anything good that came out of Abyssea that everyone can agree with it's fixing the experience of getting experience points in groups. The whole thing was over done and it's just stupid now at how much exp we can net per hour but at least no job is left behind anymore. It never would have happened with the old 6 man style with 20 jobs to choose from and a seemingly impossible task of balancing them all.

I guess the downfall of the new system is it's pretty much a zerg fest and no one really bothers playing their jobs anymore. Shrug. No time really to bother with trivial buffs and debuffs and basic PT mechanics. That does more to create dummies than leeching ever could, imho. But I stick to my guns, FFXI is not a hard game to master for anyone with even the slightest interest in playing correctly and takes the time to learn by whatever means. FFXI is not quantum physics.

[Reiterpallasch]

You forgot the princess Ahauberk warriors or princess SAMs or princess Apoc DRKs who often put "2 BRD or BRD+COR only" in their seacom.
God forbid someone who doesn't suck, wants a party that doesn't suck. I must be a princess too then!

Seriously, nothing was worse than showing up to a party that was 5 DD and a WHM. Though people to this day still don't seem to understand that a couple properly buffed DD do more damage than many more buffless ones.

Edit: Yes, this applies to abbysea too. So many people don't haste, don't use songs (or if they do, they're never march), no COR rolls etc. It's always a handful of healers and 12-15 DD jobs. I guess by todays standard though, shitty exp is better than what used to be the best exp.


one of the most important endgame jobs, BLM, were more or less banned by players from participating in Colibri parties.
@#$%ing lol'd. Have you ever fought a colibri before? Nothing says NUKE ME! like the ability to reflect spells with high MDB. Sounds like excellent use of a party slot.

[Lafaiel]

I got them all the time, but my bard and cor were both 75 and decently geared, and I actually enjoyed playing them (cor more bard). it was good xp, eventually I made friends barding it up with people that would come dd, then extend me the courtesy of coming as bard to our party next time and letting me come thf to merit parties, my thf was well geared and I could hold my own pretty well, FFXI was always about the people you met back then you know, "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" type thing if you met the right people.

Now as for seeking for a six man party as DD back then, I never did, even though I can hold my own pretty well it was not easy to get a party as dd, but that is any MMO on the market and its the price you pay for wanting to see big numbers, I had no shame in whoring out bard, loved cor though, support and dd all rolled into one, when I walk through ToAU areas and see all those birds walking around unmolested it makes me cringe.

[RAIST]

eh....I didn't really stress much over getting into parties in the past. I would hang out for a bit sometimes....put flag up while crafting, listing crud on the AH and such, or sitting around spamming magic for skillups and what not. If I didn't get an invite, I'd just head out on my own and smack stuff with my flag up. Yep...even on BLM and WHM, I would melee on them some too just to keep my skills somewhat in check. Would even whip out a dagger sometimes on SMN with Carbuncle tanking for me if there was a chance to skill it up a little ahead of time for another job.

While it was a preferred setup for the increassed xp rate/hr, a 6-man party was never a requirement before , and isn't now (well, maybe for specific fights, but not for xp)...so....what is the point of the thread?

[Doombringer]

it WOULD suck leveling a job cold, but after i got a few parties, i'd notice a lot of my parties had familiar names in them. not friends or even ls members, just people i had partied with a few nights before that probably CHOSE me over the random horde. to the point where my WAR and PLD were almost entirely leveled in these types of informal statics. it DID help having that first 75 already though, never had to stop leveling for more than a day to quest any useful AF, or do level caps at all.

granted, i don't think i'll ever do 6k/hour ever again... i mean, why have a hot dog when there's steak? but it wasn't really a hellish experience or anything. put a little ketchup on there.. hot dog ain't bad so long as it's a good crowd at the BBQ?

[Alhanelem]

First of all, the topic title is both a hyperbole and a rhetorical question. Look those terms up before you post a stupid reply directly to the topic title so you don't look like a moron.If you feel like such a disclaimer is necessary, than perhaps your post could be rewritten such that it isn't.

Moving on, I know what you're talking about, and I don't understand why people seem to miss this kind of grouping. I remember the waiting for hours on end to get a terrible party more than I remember ever enjoying it. Whenever I gained a level, I was more interested in searching for the new things I might be able to do with my new-found power than looking for the next grinding party to depart from Jeuno.


God forbid someone who doesn't suck, wants a party that doesn't suck. I must be a princess too then!The problem is, different people have different ideas of what constitutes suckage. Especially if you were one of the previously mentioned jobs, your standards were generally higher. However, it was possible to build parties with different jobs that didn't suck- it was more the player than the job. People simply decided to pick whatever was easiest and least likely to suck, because even a bad bard is probably still going to be useful to the party while a bad DD or mage might be more likely to ruin things. The fact is, there WERE "princess" bards out there who refused to party with anything other than a bunch of SAMs and/or WARs and a RDM. No matter how good the people in your party were, if it wasn't a supermegaSAM burn, it was very hard to get a BRD or RDM because they DEMANDED absolutely nothing but the absolute best. I knew several BRDs that were like this. BRD is not a difficult job to play- They could join any party and get EXP while hardly paying attention to the game (ok, a true good BRD was also a good puller, but that didn't stop "princess" BRDs from ever being lazy).

[Sparthos]

I leveled PUP from 1-75 in these old EXP parties, does this make me an expert super leet master sagegod of FFXI?

[Greatguardian]

I leveled PUP from 1-75 in these old EXP parties, does this make me an expert super leet master sagegod of FFXI?

Yes.

@thread,

There are arbitrary levels of "princessness" based on how much value was assigned to any one person's time and gil. Yes, exp did cost gil for anyone who was worth half a shit at it. For my Corsair, it often cost a whole lot of gil to exp. So why would I waste both my time and my money on some 5k/hour gimpfest that wasn't fun and wasn't doing anything for me?

If I'm going to piss away bullets and food to do my best, I expect the best from the others around me. If you can't be assed to gear yourself, eat food, skill Polearm, or come on a job that isn't absolute ass on a relative scale, then I can't be assed to waste my time with you.

Yeah. Pups in merit parties can get the hell out and never come back. I've never seen one parse worth half a shit. Masturbate all you want over sharpshot frame's piercing damage, that doesn't make your job any good in exp. And yes, I did care about the difference between 15-20k/hr and 25-30k/hr. I'm spending the same amount of money and doing the same amount of work either way. Why would I settle for less output?

[Sparthos]

GGs mindset is why I am glad that 'old super leet amazing awesome skillRus' parties are dead. There was no skill beyond being geared properly which was a little more than reading the right guides on a fansite and having the proper backline to assist in making sure the party worked.

It's not that I dislike or disagree with your points moreso that how this game was setup was concerned less with fun and more about getting only the best jobs in an EXP party or you'd be better off logged out. Efficiency and all that jazz. Sure, I played popular jobs but why should I have been penalized for trying out PUP? or BLU? or any other class that wasn't 'in' at the time? Many people were penalized and such is why people quit this game or princessed RDMs/BRDs/NINs they fucking sucked at anyway.

EXP wasn't fun if you weren't EXPing afterall. Campaign was a gathering point for retards and involved the worst elements of slogging to get a level possible.

Abyssea changed that. It gave you the ability to party on anything and take some time to enjoy being on the class and fighting enemies rather than worrying about squeezing out the 'awesome leet super fantabulous exp/hr' because frankly the worst Abyssean parties made birds look like shit.

For some it was a pride hit but I can safely say: Fuck birds, fuck Mamool Ja and fuck waiting 4hrs for a god damn PT invite that broke before the first chain 5.

[Greatguardian]

GGs mindset is why I am glad that 'old super leet amazing awesome skillRus' parties are dead. There was no skill beyond being geared properly which was a little more than reading the right guides on a fansite and having the proper backline to assist in making sure the party worked.

It's not that I dislike or disagree with your points moreso that how this game was setup was concerned less with fun and more about getting only the best jobs in an EXP party or you'd be better off logged out. Efficiency and all that jazz. Sure, I played popular jobs but why should I have been penalized for trying out PUP? or BLU? or any other class that wasn't 'in' at the time? Many people were penalized and such is why people quit this game or princessed RDMs/BRDs/NINs they fucking sucked at anyway.

EXP wasn't fun if you weren't EXPing afterall. Campaign was a gathering point for retards and involved the worst elements of slogging to get a level possible.

Abyssea changed that. It gave you the ability to party on anything and take some time to enjoy being on the class and fighting enemies rather than worrying about squeezing out the 'awesome leet super fantabulous exp/hr' because frankly the worst Abyssean parties made birds look like shit.

For some it was a pride hit but I can safely say: Fuck birds, fuck Mamool Ja and fuck waiting 4hrs for a god damn PT invite that broke before the first chain 5.

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with this analysis - and the latter half of my post wasn't directed at you in particular. EXP was never fun pre-Abyssea, and it was extremely exclusive. I certainly had unpopular classes too. But when it's not going to be fun either way, and I'm throwing away hundreds of thousands or millions of gil and countless hours of time to grind out 500 bajillion merits, I'm going to want to try to reduce that insufferable grind as much as possible.

That's really what it comes down to. Capping merits wasn't a quick process. Sure, it was so simple a caveman could do it, but it required hours upon hours of slogging through the same pink birds and snakemen over and over again. I'm so god damn sick of pink birds. If being a dick to a bunch of Pups or Blus means I can get the hell away from those insufferable pink birds faster, I will make them all break down and cry.

The same goes for any War, Sam, Brd, or Rdm that sucked too, really. People call it princessing, I call it wanting to get the hell away from those godforsaken pink birds as quickly as possible.

[Ritsuka]

First of all, the topic title is both a hyperbole and a rhetorical question. Look those terms up before you post a stupid reply directly to the topic title so you don't look like a moron.

So I've seen a few loudmouths moaning about how they can't get a six-person party anymore.

But who ever got six-person parties in the first place? Don't you remember your LS members saying "Damn, I been seeking for a hour and no invite." "Lol I been seekin for 3." "I got invited to a party irl today, and it's been two weeks since I got an invite in this...."

All the camps were always full, the "Find Member" function always found 0 PLDs, NINs, WHMs, RDMs, and SCHs seeking, and BST, BLU, SMN, PUP, DNC, DRK, and even one of the most important endgame jobs, BLM, were more or less banned by players from participating in Colibri parties. You needed a specific setup to be a "good" party. Anyone who had those jobs was level 75 in no time, even with the old, slow EXP. I saw maybe 3 CORs ever seeking a party, and BRDs were rare too. The six-man party required a few specific jobs, and those jobs would be snatched up within 10 seconds of seeking. The parties often took over an hour to put together.

What the **** was this ****? Why do you want it back? You can still make these parties, and the EXP is better than it ever was for this type of party, but the fact is, they were just a pain in the ass. With 18 slots for Abyssea parties, any job can play. With Grounds of Valor allowing easy prey targets to give good EXP, the same situation there: all jobs are helpful. And these groups are easy to put together.

Maybe for some people FFXI is all there is to real life, but for me it's a game. The fact that FFXI is now less of a chore + job + 24/7 homework assignment + alternate life is pretty fun I think.

It realy wasnt that hard to make a party. I bet ya all that time of waiting you didn't once realy try to make a party. If the ppl where looking and i got my tank and my healer the DD where easy to find and had the party ready in 3 mins some days. You just have to look and try.

People should realy put more trust in there party leaders as well and try new things. Back in 2006 I was making a party and the set up didn't include a pld nin or war as a tank and i was on smn i belive. Some of the ppl in party laughed at me saying it wasnt going work but we tryed and it worked and it did very well the exp was realy nice. Try new things if they work then your have a great time if not then oh well try something differnt. If you look for party for hours you have nobody to blame but yourself for being lazy

[Runespider]

More people should have taken the initiative and invited people instead of complaining about no invites.

The fact remains most people never did this (then complain how it's impossible to get a party in FFXI), they will wait around for hours before logging in disgust first. When you did bite the bullet and make a party you have to literally do everything, find a good camp (if it's not perfect in the level range people complain, "this xp sucks!"), perfect party setup for little downtime, organise transport/tell people how to get to the camps, find reps in time or others start to leave before they arrive. This is old XP FFXI ofc, now with Abyssea everything is so user friendly almost anyone will shout and make an XP alliance.

Not even going into the massive job descrimiation for XP, literally anything can XP in an aby alliance now..no shame in asking to join as almost anything. Old FFXI was not so friendly.

[saevel]

It realy wasnt that hard to make a party. I bet ya all that time of waiting you didn't once realy try to make a party. If the ppl where looking and i got my tank and my healer the DD where easy to find and had the party ready in 3 mins some days. You just have to look and try.

People should realy put more trust in there party leaders as well and try new things. Back in 2006 I was making a party and the set up didn't include a pld nin or war as a tank and i was on smn i belive. Some of the ppl in party laughed at me saying it wasnt going work but we tryed and it worked and it did very well the exp was realy nice. Try new things if they work then your have a great time if not then oh well try something differnt. If you look for party for hours you have nobody to blame but yourself for being lazy


Except if you were one of the black listed jobs, you wouldn't be able to get a BRD, COR, WHM, or RDM to join your party. That's the whole waiting hours part your conveniently forgetting, DD's are a dime a dozen but support characters, especially BRD's were rare. The level lock ability fixed much of that, as your 75 BRD friend could come and be your level 60 party's BRD. But unless you knew someone who was willing to do that, you were stuck what what was available on /seacom, and if you had any "unmentionables" in your party the princess BRD's would refuse to come. That is how they earned the nickname princess after all.

[Runespider]

My server was full of brds that flagged up and went to sleep/work lol

[Finuve]

through any of the headaches, this is still the only MMO I ever reached level cap on, I'd rather fight for a party than solo grind fetch and kill count quests

[Ravenmore]

through any of the headaches, this is still the only MMO I ever reached level cap on, I'd rather fight for a party than solo grind fetch and kill count quests

Depending at what point in the game it was you were just forced to solo grind. That what old 6man parties did. There was no fighting for a party it was you were not invited at all depending on your job as GG pointed out.

Blms during the SC+MB time were sought after just as hard as brds were during the TP burns but once the game moved to tp burns blms were force out to solo levels or mana burn for less exp then the tp burns.

Just as GG hates pink birds I hate little annoying Imps. I was good at soloing the little bastards but it was really annoying long and after the first hundred or so chain 5s solo the wow wears all.

[Finuve]

Depending at what point in the game it was you were just forced to solo grind. That what old 6man parties did. There was no fighting for a party it was you were not invited at all depending on your job as GG pointed out.

Blms during the SC+MB time were sought after just as hard as brds were during the TP burns but once the game moved to tp burns blms were force out to solo levels or mana burn for less exp then the tp burns.

Just as GG hates pink birds I hate little annoying Imps. I was good at soloing the little bastards but it was really annoying long and after the first hundred or so chain 5s solo the wow wears all.I hit 75 DRK before ToAU came out

[Inches]

Nostalgia always wears rose-colored glasses.

I keep reading people posting about colibri parties, and campaign and such. I'm not sure if they remember FFXI had been around for a long time before that.

Looking for a party could be a *hellish* experience. Unless you were a whm (until that time when rdms started replacing whms) or a brd...or a Rng (pre nerf), or a blm (pre-zergs). Let me introduce you to my friends, the DRKs. Stories of woe and pain are told about Dark Knights haunting the streets of Jeuno, not being able to make their living as adventurers.

Typical party forming dialogue in the day: "hey, i got a friend that wants to come, he's a drk" response: "ew, nope" .

As a whm turned smn back in the day, I *had* to build my own parties, and could totally see the difference between playing a wanted job vs an "unpopular" one. But even then, making parties wasn't a walk in the park and many times, there simply wasn't a way to do it. Did I manage, yes I did. Eventually I reached my goals, but I will *always* remember how hellish it was to get anything done.

I guess if you have all the time in the world to play, it doesn't really matter because, eventually, you *would've* gotten into a party (unless, again, you were a DRK). But someone that works, studies, or both, that wants to lay back and enjoy a friendly grind with 5 other folk, and only had 1 or 2 hours a night to play; or maybe they could only play 2 times a week or less. Yeah, i bet it was hellish for those people.

Back in the day, I did have all the time in the world, so I was lucky because there was always a time I could join or make my group. But the difficulty in partying back then was a very real thing.

Right now, I have a really hectic schedule, and the only reason i *could* come back was because Abyssea and the new system allows me to enjoy the game at my pace, and it does not occupy 155% of my time. I also think, because I play the game since release, I can appreciate these changes and the wonders of being able to do what we are able to do nowadays.

I loved the old final fantasy xi (headaches included..never could stop thinking about the game) and I love the new final fantasy xi. Consider me a happy panda.

[Economizer]

As a whm turned smn back in the day, I *had* to build my own parties, and could totally see the difference between playing a wanted job vs an "unpopular" one. But even then, making parties wasn't a walk in the park and many times, there simply wasn't a way to do it. Did I manage, yes I did. Eventually I reached my goals, but I will *always* remember how hellish it was to get anything done.

Yeah, White Mage has had its ups and downs as a job...

Currently, sure, you can find an experience points party very easily as a White Mage, but that's true of any healer - I haven't seen a Red Mage or Scholar get denied from an experience points party if there was an open healer spot.

On the other hand, even to this day, soloing anything that other classes can solo - and not just BST, but DD jobs and even magic nuking jobs, is a complete and utter pain most of the time. I might be able to pull some things off with White Mage that most other people couldn't, but I feel the limitations compared to the jobs SE is favoring for certain events.

Maybe it is stubborn to expect to be able to pull off what most others can do on other jobs if my gear keeps getting better, but it sucks to hit those occasional limitations when nobody is around to help and you know you could pull off whatever you need done if only you had job x leveled. I suppose I've leveled / been leveling other jobs but if it can be done with extreme blunt force trauma involving two one-handed weapons in a familiar 6-7 hit pattern of pain, I try to make it happen.

[Cream_Soda]

I thought the older pt'ing was a lot more fun than the 18 man abyssea pt, but I like the Abyssea exp much better. The only way I'd go back to the 6 man pt system is if it could match/exceed the exp of an Abyssea pt.

There is more to XI than leveling

[Alhanelem]

The same goes for any War, Sam, Brd, or Rdm that sucked too, really. People call it princessing, I call it wanting to get the hell away from those godforsaken pink birds as quickly as possible. I understand your sentiment, but those less awesome players may not have loved grinding merits any more than you did. One could ask "Why do you deserve to get done faster at these other people's expense?"


I keep reading people posting about colibri parties, and campaign and such. I'm not sure if they remember FFXI had been around for a long time before that.Yes, it was, and it was the dark ages.

[Cream_Soda]

I understand your sentiment, but those less awesome players may not have loved grinding merits any more than you did. One could ask "Why do you deserve to get done faster at these other people's expense?"
One may ask "what makes you feel you're so special that others will want to willingly lower their exp/hr to compensate for you"

For me, the question to that answer is if you are my friend, I don't mind what job you come on.

For random people, that answer is sorry, not happening

[Aarahs]

I think I usually only had to wait an hour on average on dragoon. Though I remember several times I got invites without my flag up. Merit parties gave 20k/hr on birds.

On summoner I had to turn down invites when they wanted me to be main healer with no assistance. I only tried it once and I couldn't keep up. Still not very bad though.

[Greatguardian]

I understand your sentiment, but those less awesome players may not have loved grinding merits any more than you did. One could ask "Why do you deserve to get done faster at these other people's expense?"

Yes, it was, and it was the dark ages.

What Cream said.

I could give a shit less about how anyone else gets their merits. I just know I was getting mine out of the way in 25k/hr or higher parties. If someone couldn't keep up in a merit party on any of their jobs, they can slog through campaign.

[Flionheart]

I was a Princess BRD unless someone was my friend. You want minuets? I'm sorry my e-peen is the exp/hr, not how much your Penta's can spike.

[Xantavia]

I found that the less xp/hour I got, the more fun I actually had (sometime). When people are talking, it made the time go much faster. I was in no rush to get to the cap, so I didn't really care how long it took. The parties that were "kill, kill, kill" left me feeling wiped and not wanting to xp for a few days afterward. I guess it was all about what you wanted from the game. Somebody who wants the best gear is going to have a different definition of what is fun than the guy who is interested is exploring the zones to see what is out there.

And I never had a problem getting invites to parties. Sure, there were days when I didn't party, but I didn't stand around WG just waiting. I'd find some ep to kill (before the upped xp for them), go do map quests, or just explore corners of the zones to see what was there.

[Zarchery]

I did a 5-man party at level 95, RNG MNK WHM BRD THF, fighting IT tigers in Kuftal Tunnel, a few weeks ago. We were farming Rarab Tail items and Seasoning Stones. Somehow, even though the mobs were IT, we killed them in a fraction of the time it took to kill IT mobs in the old days.

[Meyi]

I'm really confused by the title. Who ever got into six-person parties...? We never partied with anything but six people.

But after reading the OP I must agree -- that exp sucked. It would have been better to low man kill some even matches. And today's exp is much better than it ever was.

[Hercule]

To all thoses people that love the new abyssea exp party, i would suggest you something,
You should ask to Square-Enix to guive the right to players to get able in moghouse to put the number of Experience points they want then valide with "Enter" key and you get the Exp!!!! :D

By the way, we should ask the same thing for Gils, you put the number of gils you want with your keyboard, you valide it then you check your delivery box and you get your gils! :D

And maybe we should do the same thing for Relic/Mythic/Empyrean weapon to directly get the lv 99 Weapon of your choices!
/troll off

Today exp much better than it ever was??!

Seriously? ok so explain me where is the fun on exp pt nowadays?
For myself what i see is:

-25% of the Alliance is lv 30+ /anon leech exp
-25% of the Alliance is lv 50+ thats try to deal damage but deal nothing
-25% of the Alliance is AFK, Half AFK~
-25% of the Alliance do their job.

Player nowadays are so lazy they want to get all stuff without any work.

On level 75 it was easy to find an experience party or to build one, exept for AFK/Lazy/Underskilled player, so yeah the only good thing with abyssea is now even Lazy/AFK and underskilled players can leech exp, when they was kicked on 6 man party after 10min afk

[Komori]

Wrong, I remember as a THF, BLU and BLM I rarely ever got an invite. THF could go a week without one unless someone was really bad for a puller because while it was piercing damage and could do fine. It wasn't RNG, SAM or DRG.

BLM, was hated because of colibri's magic bounce ability, so I had to solo that and bring it up via manaburns in Vunkerl and Xarcabard, this including in the Wajoam Bird Parties! Only Bhaflau etc. birds bounced magic (those that kept their mouths open would still you that they would bounce magic, I think). And as a BLU, that's where I got most of my decent invites from.

[Hercule]

Wrong, I remember as a THF, BLU and BLM I rarely ever got an invite. THF could go a week without one unless someone was really bad for a puller because while it was piercing damage and could do fine. It wasn't RNG, SAM or DRG.

BLM, was hated because of colibri's magic bounce ability, so I had to solo that and bring it up via manaburns in Vunkerl and Xarcabard, this including in the Wajoam Bird Parties! Only Bhaflau etc. birds bounced magic (those that kept their mouths open would still you that they would bounce magic, I think). And as a BLU, that's where I got most of my decent invites from.

THF was able to deal Sneak Attack 2k Dmg on greater colibri and they're was a lot efficient, a good BLU was able to equal or even out damage plenty of good DD jobs too, about BLM i Agree Square-Enix maded a bad job with Greater Colibri camp, but a BLM was still able to go chain pudding, but i agree this was not good enouth, and greater colibri was already the begening of causual gaming introduction from Square Enix, because most of the players start QQing when some challenge incoming.

[Reiterpallasch]

I was a Princess BRD unless someone was my friend. You want minuets? I'm sorry my e-peen is the exp/hr, not how much your Penta's can spike.
If it's a x2 BRD party, it's minuet I II III & IV or gtfo!

(Don't worry Flion, people to this day still don't understand the value of haste)

[Inches]

Today exp much better than it ever was??!

Seriously? ok so explain me where is the fun on exp pt nowadays?
For myself what i see is:

-25% of the Alliance is lv 30+ /anon leech exp
-25% of the Alliance is lv 50+ thats try to deal damage but deal nothing
-25% of the Alliance is AFK, Half AFK~
-25% of the Alliance do their job.

Player nowadays are so lazy they want to get all stuff without any work.

On level 75 it was easy to find an experience party or to build one, exept for AFK/Lazy/Underskilled player, so yeah the only good thing with abyssea is now even Lazy/AFK and underskilled players can leech exp, when they was kicked on 6 man party after 10min afk

Because 72 hour parties that started in Cape Terrigan and ended in Valley of Sorrows (in which you would get one and a half levels, if you were lucky) killing the *same* monster over...and over....and over, was so much fun. We only stuck to it because of the promise that we'd find power in the future. Saving grace was being with a nice group of people that created conversation, because everything else, even when everybody knew their jobs inside and out, was mindless repetition. So in that sense, it's still repetition. Killing the same mob, doing the same thing, only with a shorter time period. Nevermind being able to follow a storyline, since missions were so far in between. I guess I can understand people's frustrations with finding a level 30 leeching in Abyssea. I, myself, have never joined an Abyssea party until I was 75, and really wouldn't even imagine doing it. But I honestly have no qualms with doing GoV till 75, and then joining and Abyssea party.

Perhaps you only enjoyed the endless hours of grind. Hey, I love grinding myself. I guess that's why I love jrpgs in general. But I appreciate being able to invest that time now in other things. And I also appreciate being able to jump into an xp party almost immediately, most of the time. And the fact that I'm taking an unpopular job doesn't make a difference, I'll still get invited. The more I think about it, the more I see that the pros outweigh the cons.

[CrAZYVIC]

Im gona acept have a Full party at lv 55 outside of White Gate, was epic. Was fun have 5 players playing with me.

I enjoyed the oportunity of have epic travles, moving my camp ever 2 - 5 levels this gave lots of live to vanadiel, exploring and having fun in diferent camps.

Was fun yes im acepting that.

But the lack of Tanks, Mages and Support jobs avaliable for make this parties was terrible. 95% of time you founded only DDS seeking, the formation system was a total Shit, dramas, have convince Racist Jp people for acept play, have convince the PLD and Healer for stay 1 hour more.

I prefer skip all that drama and problems and go to play when i want, no matter which job im Using.

If SE gave us in the past 4 - 5 tank jobs, 6 - 7 jobs could mantain a main heal and refresh, and 3 - 4 jobs could support probably this system could be more aceptable.

[Zerich]

To all thoses people that love the new abyssea exp party, i would suggest you something,
You should ask to Square-Enix to guive the right to players to get able in moghouse to put the number of Experience points they want then valide with "Enter" key and you get the Exp!!!! :D

By the way, we should ask the same thing for Gils, you put the number of gils you want with your keyboard, you valide it then you check your delivery box and you get your gils! :D

And maybe we should do the same thing for Relic/Mythic/Empyrean weapon to directly get the lv 99 Weapon of your choices!
/troll off

Today exp much better than it ever was??!

Seriously? ok so explain me where is the fun on exp pt nowadays?
For myself what i see is:

-25% of the Alliance is lv 30+ /anon leech exp
-25% of the Alliance is lv 50+ thats try to deal damage but deal nothing
-25% of the Alliance is AFK, Half AFK~
-25% of the Alliance do their job.

Player nowadays are so lazy they want to get all stuff without any work.

On level 75 it was easy to find an experience party or to build one, exept for AFK/Lazy/Underskilled player, so yeah the only good thing with abyssea is now even Lazy/AFK and underskilled players can leech exp, when they was kicked on 6 man party after 10min afk

you are a DRK

plz quit

you are doin it wrong

[Hercule]

DRK powa!
My 2nd main/favorite job is SCH, even if i dont play it a lot since abyssea updates :p

[Cream_Soda]

THF was able to deal Sneak Attack 2k Dmg on greater colibri and they're was a lot efficient, a good BLU was able to equal or even out damage plenty of good DD jobs too, about BLM i Agree Square-Enix maded a bad job with Greater Colibri camp, but a BLM was still able to go chain pudding, but i agree this was not good enouth, and greater colibri was already the begening of causual gaming introduction from Square Enix, because most of the players start QQing when some challenge incoming.
We have different definitions of "good DD jobs"

[Hercule]

We have different definitions of "good DD jobs"

Well i played with a full stuffed + tizona BLU not a random one

[Cream_Soda]

So you're comparing a "full stuffed" blu to shit dds then. That doesn't make blu able to out-damage good DDs

[Hercule]

No, i just wanted to say its not because you was BLU that maded so hard to find an exp group on LV 75, the gap is not that big,
This was most a mentality problem from players that wanted only SAM, DRG and WAR

[Haruka-Ash]

i played since japanese release so i been on partys for long time

[Mifaco]

Once again, I must post my princess brd image from the good old days, where I cared not for DRK or PLD parties.

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/500/img00517kl.jpg

[SNK]

One may ask "what makes you feel you're so special that others will want to willingly lower their exp/hr to compensate for you"

For me, the question to that answer is if you are my friend, I don't mind what job you come on.

For random people, that answer is sorry, not happening

This in a fucking nutshell. My 1st 75 was RDM which I hit at the Ullikummi camp with friends. Was much fun.

[Dfoley]

+1 me too


Seriouslly, the birdy party princesses were the same turds who wanted the game to be harder again because it made it so only a few people would have maxed merits and then they could be special again. Now they are all upset cause their old gear is worth snot, and anyone with 3-4 friends can get the same gear they suckered 18-72 people out of for 2+ years.

I started with ToAU and have been pup main mnk second since then, and I got to say, me + my pet could easily keep up with any mnk in a bird party, but no one ever wanted to count pet as part of PUPs dd add in full attachments and SP and it was no question that I was just as good as any 'great' dd.

It was very much an 'elite' crew onry type setup, and I gotta say I am super glad that way off life is over, because the idea of a few people benefiting from the work of many is really sad/lame and probably the main reason abyssea took off so well. It ment those other 17-71 people farming 'you' items were also gettings fair treatment and good gear.


I wont argue that the avg abyssea exp alliance is mostly slackers.

I would say 1/3 are perma-afk or leechs (wtf is up with leechs not keying now?)
1/3 actually there helping
1/3 semi-afk / contributing now and then / were level 30 leechs and are not level 60 -cant-hit-anythings

[Alhanelem]

-25% of the Alliance is lv 30+ /anon leech exp
-25% of the Alliance is lv 50+ thats try to deal damage but deal nothing
-25% of the Alliance is AFK, Half AFK~
-25% of the Alliance do their job.
What I ususally see is
- 1 or 2 people of low level spending 100s of K cruor on keys and running around opening them all
- 4-5 people in the 70s/80s trying to fight and maybe not doing a great job of it, but arent afk- there's nothing wrong with these people being here
- maybe 1-2 people afk
- rest active and <10 levels off cap or capped and grinding merits

I have never seen "25% of a party" be very low levels nor have I ever seen "25%" of the party be AFK. whatever low levels are in the party are generally doing an important job that contributes to the group.

[FrankReynolds]

The funny thing about the princess people is that they would often stand around in town for 2-3 hours waiting for that perfect party set up. Then go party for 2-3 hours getting 30k+ /hr exp. and it would never occur to them that they were actually getting exp slower than in a crap party. Sometimes I would go merit with LS mates, cap merits, come back and the same friggin sam or bard that I invited when I started the party is still standing in town with his flag up.

[Meyi]

For myself what i see is:

-25% of the Alliance is lv 30+ /anon leech exp
-25% of the Alliance is lv 50+ thats try to deal damage but deal nothing
-25% of the Alliance is AFK, Half AFK~
-25% of the Alliance do their job.

What I see is:
1-2 keyers
14-15 leeches (afk/low level/awful gear)
1-2 actual decent players who pull the entire weight of the alliance.

Regardless, it's still the best way to exp hands down. We're not weighed down by awful gear, awful levels, or lack of skill anymore. No longer must we wait thirty minutes for some guy (usually the white mage, tank, or puller) to order pizza. And no longer must we spend four hours trying to find the right jobs only to have the one possible option log on and tell us no.

Besides, most of the people who have a problem against Abyssea exp are the people who are weighing the alliance down. Maybe these complainers think Abyssea exp is too easy because they haven't taken the proper time themselves outside of it to learn their job?


Player nowadays are so lazy they want to get all stuff without any work.

Same people who complain Abyssea exp is too easy -- these people don't have the armor, yet they complain that it's so easy to get.

Or do you mean botting HNMs is "work"?


On level 75 it was easy to find an experience party or to build one

.... No. Did you even play FFXI before Abyssea came out?

[Sparthos]

On level 75 it was easy to find an experience party or to build one.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d102/ama989010ama/uchihaha.gif

[FrankReynolds]

Or do you mean botting HNMs is "work"?



.... No. Did you even play FFXI before Abyssea came out?

lol This.

I have a friend who had full Adaman set, BB, ridill, dalmy, pretty much everything but D ring. He wasn't even there most of the time. He would leave his bots running, and have his ls mates pass loot, or log him out after. Only requires a few people to actually be present.

[Alhanelem]

14-15 leeches (afk/low level/awful gear)People that are fighting and are at least high enough to have reasonable accuracy (Atmas and stat boosts mean you can be a fair bit lower than you would have to be outside of abyssea.

I've NEVER met an alliance (except for paid arrangements where one guy is Charged Whiskering or Cleaving clusters of monsters and people are paying like 250k to leech exp on it) where "14-15" people were leeches. A lot of people claim to have this AFK problem, I've yet to be in a party in this update that had more than one or two people AFK at any given time- Most people dont tolerate it and if you're AFK for more than a few minutes without saying something, you usually get kicked. People that are of level and have crap gear are not leeches. They're doing the best they can and/or they are newer and are trying to cap their level before they try to buff up their character. The only people who qualify as leeches are those who are doing nothing to contribute, e.g. people who are AFK.

[FrankReynolds]

People that are fighting and are at least high enough to have reasonable accuracy (Atmas and stat boosts mean you can be a fair bit lower than you would have to be outside of abyssea.

I've NEVER met an alliance (except for paid arrangements where one guy is Charged Whiskering or Cleaving clusters of monsters and people are paying like 250k to leech exp on it) where "14-15" people were leeches. A lot of people claim to have this AFK problem, I've yet to be in a party in this update that had more than one or two people AFK at any given time- Most people dont tolerate it and if you're AFK for more than a few minutes without saying something, you usually get kicked. People that are of level and have crap gear are not leeches. They're doing the best they can and/or they are newer and are trying to cap their level before they try to buff up their character. The only people who qualify as leeches are those who are doing nothing to contribute, e.g. people who are AFK.

This is basically what I have seen too. Worst thing I've run into is new players that don't know better running off and killing the wrong mobs, or not calling for help on murex and elementals.

[Sparthos]

You need to party more.

Heroes EXP in particular becomes a leech cluster where most people are 'wc' near the Tacticians, one person is pulling 5-6 bluffs every once in a while and heads are mysteriously moving to target the Tactician to collect EXP.

YOU ARENT AFK. I CAN SEE YOU MOVE. :D

[FrankReynolds]

You need to party more.

Heroes EXP in particular becomes a leech cluster where most people are 'wc' near the Tacticians, one person is pulling 5-6 bluffs every once in a while and heads are mysteriously moving to target the Tactician to collect EXP.

YOU ARENT AFK. I CAN SEE YOU MOVE. :D

I can't stand that camp. I don't see any reason to go there other than to leech. The mobs are too far apart, there's always another party, or a bunch of soloers screwing up pulls, and the mobs die too fast to get any skill-ups.

[Meyi]

I've NEVER met an alliance (except for paid arrangements where one guy is Charged Whiskering or Cleaving clusters of monsters and people are paying like 250k to leech exp on it) where "14-15" people were leeches. A lot of people claim to have this AFK problem, I've yet to be in a party in this update that had more than one or two people AFK at any given time- Most people dont tolerate it and if you're AFK for more than a few minutes without saying something, you usually get kicked. People that are of level and have crap gear are not leeches. They're doing the best they can and/or they are newer and are trying to cap their level before they try to buff up their character. The only people who qualify as leeches are those who are doing nothing to contribute, e.g. people who are AFK.

I disagree. Leech to me is someone who isn't pulling their weight in a group. They can be level 99, have awful pink gear, and still be a leech. If they are there to deal damage and their damage output is low then they are a leech. If they are there to cure and people are dying constantly then they are a leech.

The thing is I don't mind leeches. We all have to start somewhere. And really, how many people go back to parties when they have capped out everything they need capped on a job? So yeah, parties are generally created for people who are still working towards bettering their job and there's nothing wrong with that. As long as people don't think they're amazing players just because they ding 90+ then I'm cool.

[Alhanelem]

You need to party more.

Heroes EXP in particular becomes a leech cluster where most people are 'wc' near the Tacticians, one person is pulling 5-6 bluffs every once in a while and heads are mysteriously moving to target the Tactician to collect EXP.

YOU ARENT AFK. I CAN SEE YOU MOVE. :D
Actually I refuse to EXP in non-heroes areas, and I don't see this. Sometimes there's one or two person who's "AFK" near the Op NPC for a long time (you can see their head turn when they talk to the NPC if they're not really AFK), but they eventually get kicked if they don't come back / don't start contributing. Most of my parties have gone very well. The only ones that have been really slow, were because a second (or third) group showed up to do the same Ops and making it harder to claim stuff.

[Ravenmore]

I wouldn't use the letting people die, I do that all the time with people that refuse to listen when I tell them not run to far off to solo their own mobs. I also do it to wars that think they can FC when we are not doing a FC and im the only healer or the only whm.

[Cream_Soda]

I disagree. Leech to me is someone who isn't pulling their weight in a group. They can be level 99, have awful pink gear, and still be a leech. If they are there to deal damage and their damage output is low then they are a leech. If they are there to cure and people are dying constantly then they are a leech.

This times 4000

[Meyi]

I wouldn't use the letting people die, I do that all the time with people that refuse to listen when I tell them not run to far off to solo their own mobs. I also do it to wars that think they can FC when we are not doing a FC and im the only healer or the only whm.

There's nothing wrong with running off to solo. I prefer soloing my monsters as black mage, actually. If I get low on health and want a cure I will come back to the white mage. If not, I know how to use Potions, Dusty Elixirs, and Convert/Manawall/Manafont/Manawell to my advantage. In that kind of situation if I die I only blame myself.

I was referring more to a certain white mage level 70+ I know who only cured himself once an entire 3 hour long GoV party. Of course he died several times as well as the rest of the party. This is an example of a leech healer.

[FrankReynolds]

Maybe you guys could apply another derogatory term like mediocre, or shitty, or lame, or noob. Leeching implies that the other person isn't contributing, but rather just reaping the rewards. Pink people contribute, and in all likelihood work just as hard as the well geared. They just don't contribute as much due to shitty gear / skills. There's always going to be 1 guy who has better gear than anyone else. That doesn't mean everyone else is a leech (it's very unlikely that that guy soloed all his gear, or merits either, so he was a "leech" at some point too). When you say leech in this sense, it sounds like your describing a level 30 whm mule who is not using keys.

[Cream_Soda]

If you reap more reward than what you contribute, it is a parasitic relationship. Leech works just fine.

[FrankReynolds]

If you reap more reward than what you contribute, it is a parasitic relationship. Leech works just fine.

Then every player in the game is a leech. Kinda makes calling someone a leech meaningless.

[Alhanelem]

This times 4000
That times negative 839758934. People who are leveling up jobs for the first time aren't going to have uberl33t gear. That doesn't mean they aren't contributing by putting their best effort forward. They are NOT leeching unless they are specifically doing nothing.

By your definition, every player that isn't as good as you is a "leech." Leech is a negative derogatory term aimed at someone who is not contributing to something and only there to get something for nothing.

People who are fighting, actively playing, even if its their first job and pink is all they have, are not leeching.


Then every player in the game is a leech. Kinda makes calling someone a leech meaningless.THIS times 9000.

[Cream_Soda]

If you want to be technical, leech is a term for an animal. Other than that, you have your definition for leech and I have mine. When I say leech, the majority of the people are going to know what I'm referring to. If you want to call it mediocre or any other word, that's fine by me, but I'm sticking to my guns

[JovialRat]

not that i miss the 6 party set up, i do miss the "getting to party with a small group of ppl" from lvl10 in the dunes, qufim, jungle and the desert. it was fun leveling up with ppl that way, you get to see them level up and vise ver sa. but for me thats the only thing i miss.
i didnt particularly liked LFP as a DRK back in the day.

[Greatguardian]

Protip guys: Most players in this game are leeches.

How do you think the majority of older linkshells were set up back in the day? You'd have one solid leader and about 4-5 core players who were actually good at the game, followed by 15-20 leeches who were there to fill up space and either link up bots or fill out the alliance.

The "Hurr Durr I'm helping even though I'm contributing less than 5% of what the guy next to me is" sentiment is bullshit. Oh, it's the thought that counts you say? Also bullshit. Yes, you're right, this makes the vast majority of players leeches. And you know what? That's very true. The vast majority of players just leech off of the strengths and aptitude of those around them. These are the same people who couldn't beat the god damn level break, you realize this right?

I could give a shit less if 14 people in the alliance are actually attacking things if their combined damage comes out to less than 20% of mine. When that happens, everyone there is leeching off of me - they're reaping rewards from my effort while contributing absolutely nothing of value in return. That is a leech, pure and simple. Do I mind people leeching off me these days? Not really. It's not like it's hurting me all too much considering it's much harder to find another half-decent player to split the workload with than it is to just let people leech. But don't you dare try to infer that these people are pulling their weight. They are absolutely not.

You, Anal, and the cadre of freedom fighters on these boards are the ones giving the most severely negative connotation to the word leech. No one else cares if people leech. We simply care that you recognize that you're leeching, rather than pretending that your shit doesn't stink.

If a player on their first 99 didn't want to leech, they'd go out and farm a bajillion gil and get some uberleet gear and atmas and abyssites before setting foot in an exp party. If they wanted to pull their weight, they'd need to prepare themselves to pull their own god damn weight. Sitting around making up excuses for doing 0.5% of the parse is bullshit. That's a leech, and if they have a problem with being a leech then they can get the fuck out and go home.

Everyone leeches. Damn near everyone's a leech. If you're not pulling your weight, accept that and move the fuck on. We certainly don't care. We exp anyways. But you can't have your cake and eat it, too. If you want to be proud of yourself, then be something you can actually be proud of - otherwise it's just a bunch of hot air.

[Koroma]

It took blanking forever but i got 6 man pties yeah though my best memories are of bst not needing pties but thats kinda off topic.

[FrankReynolds]

OK, seriously guys. Where are you meriting at that damage is an issue these day? I spend half my time in merit / xp parties running around trying to find something to kill because the shit dies so fast.

[Greatguardian]

OK, seriously guys. Where are you meriting at that damage is an issue these day? I spend half my time in merit / xp parties running around trying to find something to kill because the shit dies so fast.

Despite appearances, even Abyssea parties can range from 150k/hr to 450k/hr, depending primarily on the quality of the DDs present. Post-genkai when a lot more solid players were out exp'ing (as always, you remember the 95 cap increase), I was able to cap Last Stand and Tachi: Shoha in about 4 hours total. Attainment was consistently clocking 450k/hr despite my dumping merits and resetting my chain every 30 merits.

200k/hr is nice and is about average for a gimp-ass exp party with 1 decent DD in it, but throw 3-5 good DDs into the mix and you'll pull more than twice that much. There is definitely room to improve.

[Sparthos]

Old zones are better imo primarily because time isn't wasted checking in the NPC for an EXP reward.

[FrankReynolds]

I don't know, it's really not that cut and dry. For example: The other night I leveled NIN 95-99 and did 5/5 Shijin. then I swapped jobs to Sam. Another guy who was keying switched to war and started raping stuff. I came back on my gimpy newly leveled Sam, and skilled with LOL Soboro for about 25 more levels until I could use Shoha which one shots worms even with that gimpy weapon. At one point or another, everyone was contributing more or less.

When we reach a point where people have everything leveled, etc. and an ally consists of 17 relic holders, and that one pink guy... then you can call him a leech, but until then, I see it as a fact that everyone has shit they need to skill / level still. People have the option to kick people that suck. I know I have used it my fair share of times. I'm sure people joke about their friend coming on w/e new job he's working on instead of his empyrian monk, but I highly doubt that you really feel like he's leeching off you. This is just splitting hairs here really.

Seriously though, what camps are people using? I've yet to find one where we aren't running around looking for repops when everyones on well geared jobs.

[Greatguardian]

Misareaux bugards can easily hit 450k-500k/hr or higher when you're killing things as soon as they spawn. Worms are spread out and Bluffaloes are absolutely terrible, just for the record.

If I come on an lolJob with a crappy weapon and no combat skill and I'm not doing much damage, then I'm leeching at that point in time. There's nothing wrong with it, but it is leeching. I am leeching exp and cruor while skilling up and not contributing to the group. People are running away from that word, but that's what it is straight up.

Like I said, I could care less if a few people leech. Most people are leeches anyways. When everyone's a leech, parties die because they don't have anyone to leech off of. When there's a 17:1 ratio of leech : player, then parties are underperforming. But you can still hit a nice amount of exp in Abyssea with a 2:1 ratio.

I just loathe the "It's the thought that counts, no one's a leech if they're not afk" mentality because it's absolute horseshit. If you're going to leech that's fine but at least own up to it.

[FrankReynolds]

Its not so much that I wanna run away from it, but its a term that's already associated with another far more annoying tactic which is standing there doing nothing. It's fine if you think not being on the best DD job available is a form of leeching, but when people use the term like that in the forum, it's hard to tell what they mean.

Saying every party has like 10 leeches sounds terrible when people think that there are 10 level 30-50 players sitting there dozing. But then we find out its really 10 guys that haven't fully upgraded their relics, or gotten all +2s yet. I think that kind of disparity is using the term a little too loosely. Call them Gimp or something. It's more concise.

[Cream_Soda]

People who stand around and do nothing? I'd sooner call them clients than leeches. They still pull their weight in the form of paying me to be able to stand there. I'd rather do that and get money than have someone who isn't paying, "trying" and doing less than 1% of the damage

[FrankReynolds]

People who stand around and do nothing? I'd sooner call them clients than leeches. They still pull their weight in the form of paying me to be able to stand there. I'd rather do that and get money than have someone who isn't paying, "trying" and doing less than 1% of the damage

OK, Your super good, and everyone else can only do %1 of the damage when your around. Congratulations.

[Cream_Soda]

OK, Your super good, and everyone else can only do %1 of the damage when your around. Congratulations.
Not at all, plenty of people can do the same or more damage than me within reasonable values.

It's not hard to parse over 1-4%. That's my issue. If you're not in that group, why would anyone want to keep you

[Greatguardian]

Its not so much that I wanna run away from it, but its a term that's already associated with another far more annoying tactic which is standing there doing nothing. It's fine if you think not being on the best DD job available is a form of leeching, but when people use the term like that in the forum, it's hard to tell what they mean.

Saying every party has like 10 leeches sounds terrible when people think that there are 10 level 30-50 players sitting there dozing. But then we find out its really 10 guys that haven't fully upgraded their relics, or gotten all +2s yet. I think that kind of disparity is using the term a little too loosely. Call them Gimp or something. It's more concise.

Except, by definition, they're leeching. I realize that this may cause some confusion, but that's a conflation of terms really. I see absolutely no difference, in my eyes, between the people standing around doing nothing and the people parsing 1% or less. They're both contributing the same thing: jack squat.

The issue here seems to stem from people associating standing leeches as "Bad" while simultaneously wanting to label gimp leeches as "Well-intentioned". You can't really do that. The net gain each of these types brings to a party is the same: Practically nothing.

Standing leeches really aren't bad, though. If anything, they're more honest with themselves than gimp leeches. The vicious negative connotation associated with Leeching is most certainly not coming from me.

The most vicious "anti-leech" posters on these forums are almost always gimp leeches themselves who want to feel like they have the moral high ground over their standing cousins. Truth is, they don't, and they know it. That's why they scream so loudly.

Note that I'm not referring to Frank, he's a pretty cool guy and is certainly not gimp.

[FrankReynolds]

Except, by definition, they're leeching. I realize that this may cause some confusion, but that's a conflation of terms really. I see absolutely no difference, in my eyes, between the people standing around doing nothing and the people parsing 1% or less. They're both contributing the same thing: jack squat.

The issue here seems to stem from people associating standing leeches as "Bad" while simultaneously wanting to label gimp leeches as "Well-intentioned". You can't really do that. The net gain each of these types brings to a party is the same: Practically nothing.

Standing leeches really aren't bad, though. If anything, they're more honest with themselves than gimp leeches. The vicious negative connotation associated with Leeching is most certainly not coming from me.

Eh, I don't know, its just an exaggerated use of the term in order to make another group of people sound worse than they really are. I mean by the definition of the word, most sales people, politicians, and religious leaders are whores, but calling them that makes for a really confusing conversation, especially when it involves all three at once. Not that I don't do it anyways from time to time just to amuse myself. :P

Lets just call them what they are. Bad players.

[Cream_Soda]

We'll call them leech, you can call them w/e the fk you want to call them.

I don't see how hard of a concept that is to understand. We're not saying everyone has to call them leeches. That's what we call them. Deal with it.

[Greatguardian]

Eh, I don't know, its just an exaggerated use of the term in order to make another group of people sound worse than they really are. I mean by the definition of the word, most sales people, politicians, and religious leaders are whores, but calling them that makes for a really confusing conversation, especially when it involves all three at once. Not that I don't do it anyways from time to time just to amuse myself. :P

Lets just call them what they are. Bad players.

They're that, too. I just think you're taking the term too seriously. Leeching isn't a bad thing. By default, all bad players are also leeches.

Whore has negative connotations too. But hey, prostitution is the world's oldest profession! There's nothing wrong with a few whores here and there.

[FrankReynolds]

We'll call them leech, you can call them w/e the fk you want to call them.

I don't see how hard of a concept that is to understand. We're not saying everyone has to call them leeches. That's what we call them. Deal with it.
Dude, we're having a normal conversation about game terms. Nobody else is getting upset about them. It's really out of boredom I assure you. Nothing to get all angry about.

[Elphy]

Well anyone who had any issues finding a camp would just go do MMM runs if they were smart at all since MMM usually wielded higher exp per hr than a standard pt if everyone knew what they were doing. Plus if they knew what they were doing all jobs had something to contribute. I have been in bird pts where a pup was main heal and we had 0 deaths and 0 downtime. It was the ppl who had bias against certain jobs that made them hard to find pts with.

Also learning your job had other bonuses, such as ppl who you got a group with actively seeking you out for pts because you knew your job, were well geared and didnt complain the whole time or talk smack. I had so many issues with thf post 40 until I got 1 pt. After that I shot up to 75 simply because I had 5 ppl who were so impressed they sought me out to pull/sata for them. Same with brd, rdm and sch.

In retrospect it really wasnt all that hard, just took a little longer to get to 75, plus u made some good buds along the way ^^

[Ravenmore]

Well anyone who had any issues finding a camp would just go do MMM runs if they were smart at all since MMM usually wielded higher exp per hr than a standard pt if everyone knew what they were doing. Plus if they knew what they were doing all jobs had something to contribute. I have been in bird pts where a pup was main heal and we had 0 deaths and 0 downtime. It was the ppl who had bias against certain jobs that made them hard to find pts with.

Also learning your job had other bonuses, such as ppl who you got a group with actively seeking you out for pts because you knew your job, were well geared and didnt complain the whole time or talk smack. I had so many issues with thf post 40 until I got 1 pt. After that I shot up to 75 simply because I had 5 ppl who were so impressed they sought me out to pull/sata for them. Same with brd, rdm and sch.

In retrospect it really wasnt all that hard, just took a little longer to get to 75, plus u made some good buds along the way ^^

Yeah because MMM was out for so long in the time of the crowded camps it. there was 3 good merit camps that could handle 6 parties max. Then you had the bay which no one wanted to go to and loltrolls both slower exp. MM came lat and wasn't out that long till abyssea made it go away.

[Reiterpallasch]

I wouldn't use the letting people die, I do that all the time with people that refuse to listen when I tell them not run to far off to solo their own mobs. I also do it to wars that think they can FC when we are not doing a FC and im the only healer or the only whm.
So you admit to being a crap healer then. And not so much that you let them die, but because you somehow can't heal them because you're the only healer (hint: all it takes to cleave is a WAR + WHM, and that's with 20+ mobs, not the 3-4 the gimpshit perle WAR managed to hit in your exp ally)

[Zarchery]

Obviously a lot of people did get 6-man parties because there were thousands of level 75 players long before Abyssea made alliance parties the norm and Grounds/Fields of Valor made low manning EP mobs tenable. It was frustrating to wait a long time, get a crummy party, or get invited to a party as a replacement just to see the party disband two fights later. It was inferior, but it happened.

Though when you got a great party, where the level range was tight and kills were fast, that really was a little slice of heaven.

Nowadays I'm finding my least favorite type of party is Dominion Ops. You end up running back to the Dominion Sergeant every 60-90 seconds for that bonus XP instead of killing. Altepa is the worst because of the distance between where the mobs are and the Sergeant. Plus you're usually not the only alliance there so there's competition for mobs. It's a mess. I haven't done any firm documentation to prove this, but I'm pretty sure that a party without Dominion Ops is faster. I know that XPing on raptors or bugards in Misareaux was giving faster XP, as nobody ran back to restart a Dominion Op, they just ran around killing whatever popped, and I'd get another 660 XP every 10-15 seconds.

[FrankReynolds]

Obviously a lot of people did get 6-man parties because there were thousands of level 75 players long before Abyssea made alliance parties the norm and Grounds/Fields of Valor made low manning EP mobs tenable. It was frustrating to wait a long time, get a crummy party, or get invited to a party as a replacement just to see the party disband two fights later. It was inferior, but it happened.

Though when you got a great party, where the level range was tight and kills were fast, that really was a little slice of heaven.

Nowadays I'm finding my least favorite type of party is Dominion Ops. You end up running back to the Dominion Sergeant every 60-90 seconds for that bonus XP instead of killing. Altepa is the worst because of the distance between where the mobs are and the Sergeant. Plus you're usually not the only alliance there so there's competition for mobs. It's a mess. I haven't done any firm documentation to prove this, but I'm pretty sure that a party without Dominion Ops is faster. I know that XPing on raptors or bugards in Misareaux was giving faster XP, as nobody ran back to restart a Dominion Op, they just ran around killing whatever popped, and I'd get another 660 XP every 10-15 seconds.

I'm pretty sure that the only reason for dominion ops is if you are leeching, and can really only have 5-6 people killing stuff. previous to the merit cap, it may have been faster for people to merit that way, because the people meriting were constantly leaving and resetting their xp, and the book gave capped xp regardless of lights. The longer you stay in a zone, the less the book works in your favor though.

At any rate, those books suck, and unless they make them auto refresh like GOV, I probably won't do them anymore.

[Reiterpallasch]

So don't run back and forth to get new OPs. A good alliance will get exp faster just mass killing mobs without all the running.

Edit: Though try telling that to all the people/leeches/whatever still running around in perle/teal/aurore at 99. You'll probably get some argument about evil botting elitists that steal mobs, or how the only way to kill that fast or lowman stuff is with a brew.

[Sparthos]

So don't run back and forth to get new OPs. A good alliance will get exp faster just mass killing mobs without all the running.

Edit: Though try telling that to all the people/leeches/whatever still running around in perle/teal/aurore at 99. You'll probably get some argument about evil botting elitists that steal mobs, or how the only way to kill that fast or lowman stuff is with a brew.

Except in Heroes zones, most parties want the 'free' EXP or will come up with bullshit reasons to keep checking in to the NPC like 'seals' or 'I need dominion points'. Bluffalo is the biggest offender granted if you aren't down in the spawns you're wasting time on one person bringing in mobs to camp. Good when you're AFK, shitty when you're playing.

I loathe EXP but EXP where morons are waiting on one guy to pull Dolls is usually when I just walk into Bombs and HP. Scars EXP can be fun too - like wiping to Varney completely.

[Alhanelem]

If the op NPC is literally right next to the mobs you're killing, it's worthwhile to do the ops. Some of the camps i've seen, including grauberg crabs and dolls in altepa, the NPC is too far from the mobs for it to be helpful. with bluffaloes and raptors in ulegurand and bugards in grauberg, it's easy to do pages without slowing down the fighting.

But an auto-restart function like other ops would make it so it doesnt matter where the NPC is.

[Ravenmore]

So you admit to being a crap healer then. And not so much that you let them die, but because you somehow can't heal them because you're the only healer (hint: all it takes to cleave is a WAR + WHM, and that's with 20+ mobs, not the 3-4 the gimpshit perle WAR managed to hit in your exp ally)

No I refuse to heal them when we are NOT doing a fell cleve and other people others are fighting mobs too. So I let them die since thats not what we put the party together for. If I wanted my party to be a FC it would be one from the start.

Another thing is when 2 or 3 of them get the idea they want to do it to and round up their own groups.

[Greatguardian]

If the op NPC is literally right next to the mobs you're killing, it's worthwhile to do the ops. Some of the camps i've seen, including grauberg crabs and dolls in altepa, the NPC is too far from the mobs for it to be helpful. with bluffaloes and raptors in ulegurand and bugards in grauberg, it's easy to do pages without slowing down the fighting.

But an auto-restart function like other ops would make it so it doesnt matter where the NPC is.

Doing pages on Bluffaloes severely inhibits your EXP gain unless your party lacks even 1 good member or somehow doesn't have a 99 in it. The Ops no longer reach 5-star because mobs can't check VT any more with a 99 in the party. Even when they could, it was still a waste. Buffalos in particular are far too spread out to be worthwhile for exp at all - people just like "Big Number Syndrome" chunks of EXP even if it's lower overall.

Scars areas are far superior for exp across the board.

[RAIST]

idk about the VT being a set cap...maybe only certain mobs in certain zones. I pulled a couple IT dhalmels in Aby Altep at 99 DRG when I was finishing off that job. Not a good camp for burning pages because of the run to the NPC... but it is possible to get IT at 99 in some spots.

[Aldersyde]

I loathe EXP but EXP where morons are waiting on one guy to pull Dolls is usually when I just walk into Bombs and HP. Scars EXP can be fun too - like wiping to Varney completely.

I hadn't done an actual abyssea xp alliance since level 80 (leveled my four 85+ jobs with ls empyrean farming and just soloing) and I joined one a week or so ago because I wanted ruinator unlocked (and 5/5) so I could see if it was as bad as I feared. I was absolutely dumbfounded at how people just refused to pull (or open gold chests lol), even when they were on thf, dnc, and nin. It was plain stupid. I was sniping and pulling mobs on blm just so I could get the damn pages done. The experience was annoying enough that I'd rather just dual box or just get xp where I could with the ls.

Gimp DDs i can deal with; ppl who refuse to pull when they're on jobs that can pull I just can't.

Not really disputing anything, just sharing my experience leveling the last couple weeks.

[Khajit]

I hadn't done an actual abyssea xp alliance since level 80 (leveled my four 85+ jobs with ls empyrean farming and just soloing) and I joined one a week or so ago because I wanted ruinator unlocked (and 5/5) so I could see if it was as bad as I feared. I was absolutely dumbfounded at how people just refused to pull (or open gold chests lol), even when they were on thf, dnc, and nin. It was plain stupid. I was sniping and pulling mobs on blm just so I could get the damn pages done. The experience was annoying enough that I'd rather just dual box or just get xp where I could with the ls.

Gimp DDs i can deal with; ppl who refuse to pull when they're on jobs that can pull I just can't.

Not really disputing anything, just sharing my experience leveling the last couple weeks.
Jobs that can pull? I grabbed stuff at lv 40 while leeching for some groups for various reasons when the rest of the group was too stupid to realize grabbing a monster isnt hard. I see you're pld as one of your jobs atm. You're actually a better puller for some for the camps that magic aggro since you can just run through a swath of them with magic being cast provided there isn't another alliance camping you to steal your pulls.

Tbh if anyone should be a designated puller in the group it should be whatever DD sucks ass at being a DD so that they can actually pull their weight for once. Job has almost nothing to do with it when the damage dealth varies so much between players. If that nin or thf or dnc was dealing 30~50% of alliance damage should they really be sent off grabbing mobs instead of the gimp war that doesnt wear proper atma doing 5%? That's the TLDR point.

[Cream_Soda]

To anyone who thinks Abyssea brought upon a wave of gimps,

Good ole days of the 6man party

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/94ac764cb5f818c06cb142b4aed145c7.jpg

[Aldersyde]

Jobs that can pull? I grabbed stuff at lv 40 while leeching for some groups for various reasons when the rest of the group was too stupid to realize grabbing a monster isnt hard. I see you're pld as one of your jobs atm. You're actually a better puller for some for the camps that magic aggro since you can just run through a swath of them with magic being cast provided there isn't another alliance camping you to steal your pulls.

Tbh if anyone should be a designated puller in the group it should be whatever DD sucks ass at being a DD so that they can actually pull their weight for once. Job has almost nothing to do with it when the damage dealth varies so much between players. If that nin or thf or dnc was dealing 30~50% of alliance damage should they really be sent off grabbing mobs instead of the gimp war that doesnt wear proper atma doing 5%? That's the TLDR point.

My post explicitly says I was on blm. And I was complaining no one would pull. You quoted what I said but it's pretty obvious you didn't read it.

[FrankReynolds]

I think the moral of the story is that people shoul dbe pulling based on how well it helps the group, not what job they are on. Anyone can pull. SHitty DDs should do it. Not certain jobs.

EDIT: For the record, the whole idea of pulling is outdated, and probably bad in those parties anyways.

[Khajit]

My post explicitly says I was on blm. And I was complaining no one would pull. You quoted what I said but it's pretty obvious you didn't read it.

Stoneskin, manawall. pdt gear like your easily buyable earth staff and etc.Sandstorm+ dessert boots. all jobs chakram if you don't feel like using magic. Congratulations you're geared for pulling. Pulling isn't hard. Yes noone was pulling but you're clearly missing the point of my statement. I was simply pointing oiut that job has nothing to do with it. Your ideal of x job should be puller just makes people find X job tedious because they have to stop doing the fun part of their job and if the rest of the alliance is leeching on the DD then at the point where the nin thf dnc etc etc has to pull for them as well they might as well DB and solo the exp in order to keep the extra pops/gil items to npc from chests. If you're complaining that noone was pulling in your alliance then that includes YOU.
And really why are you complaining about that instead of all the brds that don't pull? They're the one job that has enough free time to not be inconvenienced when it comes to performing their duties when pulling. nightingale/troube + SV and/or maracto and they have enough time to pull several waves before finding an isl and starting all over again.

[Olor]

@#$%ing lol'd. Have you ever fought a colibri before? Nothing says NUKE ME! like the ability to reflect spells with high MDB. Sounds like excellent use of a party slot.

Dispel, do you have it?

[Cream_Soda]

Dispel, do you have it?
You're kidding, right?

[Aldersyde]

Stoneskin, manawall. pdt gear like your easily buyable earth staff and etc.Sandstorm+ dessert boots. all jobs chakram if you don't feel like using magic. Congratulations you're geared for pulling. Pulling isn't hard. Yes noone was pulling but you're clearly missing the point of my statement. I was simply pointing oiut that job has nothing to do with it. Your ideal of x job should be puller just makes people find X job tedious because they have to stop doing the fun part of their job and if the rest of the alliance is leeching on the DD then at the point where the nin thf dnc etc etc has to pull for them as well they might as well DB and solo the exp in order to keep the extra pops/gil items to npc from chests. If you're complaining that noone was pulling in your alliance then that includes YOU.
And really why are you complaining about that instead of all the brds that don't pull? They're the one job that has enough free time to not be inconvenienced when it comes to performing their duties when pulling. nightingale/troube + SV and/or maracto and they have enough time to pull several waves before finding an isl and starting all over again.

Dude, I don't know what you're on but you obviously missed the point of what I was saying ....not only did I specifically say I was on blm, I specifically stated I was sniping and pulling mobs. My point was no one else was...even though they were on jobs that were much more suited for pulling. You wouldn't find that slightly annoying?

Frank, I agree that everyone should be contributing with pulls if they can, my recent experience showed me that this wasn't the case. I can get decent xp on my own time without all the aggravation.

[Greatguardian]

Dispel, do you have it?

You started the game after Colibri were old news, but they don't cast Reflect on themselves. They natively return any spell cast on them insta-cast. If you sleep them, they'll cast sleep on you when they wake up. If you nuke them, they'll nuke you back a whole lot stronger (assuming you're exping on them and are thus lower level than them), etc.

[Olor]

You started the game after Colibri were old news, but they don't cast Reflect on themselves. They natively return any spell cast on them insta-cast. If you sleep them, they'll cast sleep on you when they wake up. If you nuke them, they'll nuke you back a whole lot stronger (assuming you're exping on them and are thus lower level than them), etc.

Oh thanks. I started the game before colibri were old news (first time before US PS2 release - got to level 25 blm before I had to quit because my roomie, whose comp I was using, moved - second time just before WotG release) but I never got to them the second time around, since I basically soloed casually for 6 months and never got to 50... ah, the bad old days...

So thanks... never knew anything about the pink birds - heard blm were bad but I thought it was a tp move they did that put up reflect. Thanks for the info.

/blush

[FrankReynolds]

Oh thanks. I started the game before colibri were old news (first time before US PS2 release - got to level 25 blm before I had to quit because my roomie, whose comp I was using, moved - second time just before WotG release) but I never got to them the second time around, since I basically soloed casually for 6 months and never got to 50... ah, the bad old days...

So thanks... never knew anything about the pink birds - heard blm were bad but I thought it was a tp move they did that put up reflect. Thanks for the info.

/blush

Nah, they will eat you if you nuke them. I did see a group of RMT BLMS doing a really crappy job of mass pulling and AGA'ing them once. They seemed to be able to do it somewhat. I sat and watched them wipe a few times.

[Khajit]

Dude, I don't know what you're on but you obviously missed the point of what I was saying ....not only did I specifically say I was on blm, I specifically stated I was sniping and pulling mobs. My point was no one else was...even though they were on jobs that were much more suited for pulling. You wouldn't find that slightly annoying?

Frank, I agree that everyone should be contributing with pulls if they can, my recent experience showed me that this wasn't the case. I can get decent xp on my own time without all the aggravation.

And you're missing the point that the jobs aren't specifically suited for pulling more than any other job. Inside abyssea you've cruor buffs and unlimited mp on the whm making it near impossible to die, movement speed available for all/most jobs relatively easily, an atma that buffs movement speed if you don't have it from gear,all jobs throwing weapons, and so on. When lv 40+ jobs subbing blm for warp are capable of pulling your attempt to decree any job as the ideal puller to the point that they HAVE to be the puller more than anyone else including yourself really hits a wall in it's logic train.