Wrong martial arts trait values

[MarkovChain]

First thing I did on the test server the other day is test Kenkonken. Well the extra martial traits on the weapon do not affect TP, but on the other hand martial values for PUP wether it being on normal wiki or BG wiki are flat wrong (who is the idiot that wrote thoses pages ?). For instance BG wiki states that PUP is geting 320 delay at 96 when at 99 i'm getting exactly 5.0 TP/hit without weapon and store TP gear. 320 tp naked would give 4.8/hit. It's not even giving 340 per hit which they claim PUP is getting at 87... We are talking here about at least 350 base trait at 99 guys.

[Tesahade]

I got 4.8/hit on live server(i just did it) I would say the test server is bugged... Also its a little crazy to jump to the people who made the MA pages are idiots, rather then that the server is bug...

[MarkovChain]

second pup nerf incoming

[Arcon]

second pup nerf incoming

Wouldn't surprise me, with all the loving PUP's been getting lately.

[Shinron-PUP]

First thing I did on the test server the other day is test Kenkonken. Well the extra martial traits on the weapon do not affect TP, but on the other hand martial values for PUP wether it being on normal wiki or BG wiki are flat wrong (who is the idiot that wrote thoses pages ?). For instance BG wiki states that PUP is geting 320 delay at 96 when at 99 i'm getting exactly 5.0 TP/hit without weapon and store TP gear. 320 tp naked would give 4.8/hit. It's not even giving 340 per hit which they claim PUP is getting at 87... We are talking here about at least 350 base trait at 99 guys.

Do you have Kenkonken's yourself, or is this something they added to the test server for testing. If so I want some KKK action :D. Just not sure what NPC/moogle to get it from.

[Zhronne]

You can get any trial weapon (which includes mythic weapons) simply by going at the Trial Moogle. Examining a certain trial gives you the option to receive the result of that trial.

[Dfoley]

Not sure where you are getting your info but its not all correct.

1)
With no KKK at 97 we got MA 5, not 96
http://www.zam.com/forum.html?forum=253&mid=1322970250218248362
Already confirmed on live and test so not sure why you are getting 350 delay when naked. Only thing I can think of is that h2h behaves differently with no weapon equipped.

At 99 it should be 320 = 4.8, try to find a 0 dly weapon and use that see if you get the same results.


Either way equip the 99 KKK and just report the 10 hit tp. Its far more useful then this trollish thread you started when other sources have already proved that we did get ma5 and it is infact the expected 320 dly.

2) To be getting exactly 5.0/ hit you need between 320 + (40~48) dly weapon equipped.

If that was true, (assuming 360), with a +61 dly taipan equipped you would expect 5.7 tp/hit, and we have already shown it was 5.2 which is exactly what the TP equations at bg and ffxi wiki both predict. Not only that, but with just MA 4 at 96 we have shown that you get 5.4 tp/hit with taipan equipped.


It is an interesting thing to consider, but repeat it with mnk and with 0 dly weapons and it might be more conclusive.

[Raksha]

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/106679-Test-Server-Findings?p=4956276&viewfull=1#post4956276

[Dfoley]

Which is mighty fine for a level 95 weapon test... I was under the assumption he was going to test the 99 version.

Edit:
I have the sneaky suspicion OP left some store tp gear on by accident, only takes 5 store tp (rajas ring) to go from the expected 4.8 up to 5.0.

[Dfoley]

Can this thread be deleted.

It is 100% not true, just confirmed on test and live that at 99 10 hits = 48 tp.

Either he was trolling or he lied about being naked and still had store tp gear on.

[MarkovChain]

I verified it twice with no weapon and then with weapon, so stop being dumb. Ta raksha, byrth conclusion are wrong because level 95 KKK is returning wrong values in the first place. Try to compare the values of level 95 vere then KK, you will get the same. As such the MA from KKK does not affect TP.

[Dfoley]

I verified it twice with no weapon and then with weapon, so stop being dumb. Ta raksha, byrth conclusion are wrong because level 95 KKK is returning wrong values in the first place. Try to compare the values of level 95 vere then KK, you will get the same. As such the MA from KKK does not affect TP.


Just admit that you messed up and accidently had 5 stp on and be done with it.

MA from KKK does affect tp... again not sure where you are getting that. Other than at 99 with 0 stp, you get 4.8 tp a hit, with a 49 dly weapon and -45 dly from KKK you still get 4.8 tp/ hit since the delay is still in the small range where you would expect 4.8 per hit. Because you are basically at 324 dly.

I confirmed last night with store tp, -ma gear, and KKK that 95 KKK is in fact roughly -45 delay, because if it was -50, then with +2 pants and store tp it would have gotten a different tp return.

I will post my results when i get home from work just to prove you wrong if you would like, but I will give you a chance to redo your testing and fix your errors.

no store tp/no weapon
4.8 per hit at 99

no store tp/KKK 95
4.8 per hit at 99, if MA didn't affect tp you would have 5.1 tp/ hit

[Dfoley]

Here I found my data:

no store tp/no weapon
4.8 per hit at 99

no store tp/KKK 95
4.8 per hit at 99,

11 store tp/kkk 95/+2 pants (-55 expected MA)
5.3 tp per hit

If it was -50 for kkk 95 you would have -60 total and expect 5.2 tp per hit, which wasnt the case

[Dfoley]

Completely Naked: No gear at all. Not just un-equipping store tp gear.
4 - 9 - 14 - 19 - 24 - 28 - 33 - 38 - 43 - 48

4.8 tp/hit

Kenkonken + (+2 gloves) + (+2 legs) + rajas ring (11 store tp & - 55 ma)
5 - 10 - 15 - 21 - 26 - 31 - 37 - 42 - 47 -53

5.3 tp/hit

IF KKK didnt affect tp/hit, you would expect 5.4 tp per hit, and if KKK was -50, you would expect 5.2 per hit.

SO

1) I am not an idiot, check your testing
2) KKK DOES affect tp/hit
3) PUP does have MA 5, which IS 320 dly
4) naked tp/hit at 99 is 4.8

[Theytak]

One of the people who tested and confirmed our Martial Arts values here to shut pchan up.

Stupidly Easy 10 hit TP/hit test:

Naked (read: absolutely no gear in any slot, baring main hand for obvious purposes), /blm (done while testing other stuff, being able to warp back and change level speeds it up a lot, but /blm is fine, all that matters is that it's not /mnk and it's not /sam)

Pup: Level 74
- Bare Fist: 380 delay; Equation gives TP/hit as 5.2
[380/2 = 190 (you divide by 2 because the TP is given per fist), ( 5 + ( ( (190-180) * 6.5 ) / 270 ) ) ]
Hit #1: 5 TP
Hit #2: 10 TP
Hit #3: 15 TP
Hit #4: 20 TP
Hit #5: 26 TP
Hit #6: 31 TP
Hit #7: 36 TP
Hit #8: 41 TP
Hit #9: 46 TP
Hit #10: 52 TP (confirms 5.2 TP/hit)

- Hades Sainti (Delay+51): 431 delay; 5.8 TP/hit
[431/2 = 215.5; ( 5 + ( ( ( 215 - 180) * 6.5 ) / 270 ) ) (The decimal from halving the delay is dropped, but it doesn't matter 90% of the time (I kept an example where it shows that it's dropped down below))]
Hit #1: 5 TP
Hit #2: 11 TP
Hit #3: 17 TP
Hit #4: 23 TP
Hit #5: 29 TP
Hit #6: 34 TP
Hit #7: 40 TP
Hit #8: 46 TP
Hit #9: 52 TP
Hit #10: 5.8 TP (confirms 5.8 TP/hit)

Pup 75:
- Bare Fist: 360 delay; 5.0 TP/hit
[360/2 = 180; ( 5 + ( ( ( 180 - 180) * 6.5 ) / 270 ) ) (also note: 180 is the lowest delay for this equation, so at the delays below that are < 180, the equation changes)]
Hit #1: 5 TP
Hit #2: 10 TP
Hit #3: 15 TP
Hit #4: 20 TP
Hit #5: 25 TP
Hit #6: 30 TP
Hit #7: 35 TP
Hit #8: 40 TP
Hit #9: 45 TP
Hit #10: 50 TP (Confirms 5.0 TP/hit)

- Hades Sainti (Delay +51): 411 delay; 5.6 TP/hit
[411/2 = 205.5; ( 5 + ( ( ( 205 - 180) * 6.5 ) / 270 ) )]
Hit #1: 5 TP
Hit #2: 11 TP
Hit #3: 16 TP
Hit #4: 22 TP
Hit #5: 28 TP
Hit #6: 33 TP
Hit #7: 39 TP
Hit #8: 44 TP
Hit #9: 50 TP
Hit #10: 56 TP (Confirms 5.6 TP/hit)

- Kenkonken (75) (Delay+49, MA: Delay -20): 389 delay; 5.3 TP/hit
(Including two delay -> TP calcs to show KKK's apparent and actual delay, but looking at it, I'm not sure how people figured it didn't affect TP/hit...)
[409/2 = 204.5; ( 5 + ( ( ( 204 - 180) * 6.5 ) / 270 ) ) = 5.5 TP/hit]
[389/2 = 194.5; ( 5 + ( ( ( 194 - 180) * 6.5 ) / 270 ) ) = 5.3 TP/hit]
Hit #1: 5 TP
Hit #2: 10 TP
Hit #3: 15 TP
Hit #4: 21 TP
Hit #5: 26 TP
Hit #6: 31 TP
Hit #7: 37 TP
Hit #8: 42 TP
Hit #9: 47 TP
Hit #10: 53 TP (Confirms 5.3 TP/hit)

Pup 85:
Confirmation, only giving the 10th hit because this set just proves that up to level 85, there is no change in TP/hit, and there for no change in martial arts(bgwiki is wrong here, since it says we get it MA4 at 87, but it's actually 86. It's weird, because I remember testing it when the 86-90 cap came out, and I swear we didn't have it at 86... they may have changed it, or I may be remembering wrong, but I don't think so.

- Bare Fist: 360 delay; 5.0 TP/hit
Hit #10: 5 TP
- Hades Sainti (Delay +51): 411 delay; 5.6 TP/hit
Hit #10: 5.6 TP
- Kenkonken (75) (Delay+49, MA: Delay -20): 389 delay; 5.3 TP/hit
Hit #10: 5.3 TP

Pup 86:
- Bare Fist: 340 delay; 4.9 TP/hit
[340/2 = 170 (note: remember, <180 = new equation); ( 5 + ( ( ( 170 - 180 ) * 1.5 ) / 180 ) ]
Hit #1: 4 TP
Hit #2: 9 TP
Hit #3: 14 TP
Hit #4: 19 TP
Hit #5: 24 TP
Hit #6: 29 TP
Hit #7: 34 TP
Hit #8: 39 TP
Hit #9: 44 TP
Hit #10: 49 TP (Confirms 4.9 TP/hit)

- Hades Sainti (Delay +51): 391 delay; 5.3 TP/hit
[391 /2 = ; ( 5 + ( ( ( 195 - 180 ) * 6.5) / 270 ) ]
Hit #1: 5 TP
Hit #2: 10 TP
Hit #3: 15 TP
Hit #4: 21 TP
Hit #5: 26 TP
Hit #6: 31 TP
Hit #7: 37 TP
Hit #8: 42 TP
Hit #9: 47 TP
Hit #10: 53 TP (Confirms 5.3 TP/hit)

- Kenkonken (75) (Delay+49, MA: Delay -20): 369 delay; 5.0~5.1 TP/hit
[369/2 = ; ( 5 + ( ( ( 184.5 - 180 ) * 6.5) / 270 ) = 5.1]
[369/2 = ; ( 5 + ( ( ( 184 - 180 ) * 6.5) / 270 ) = 5.0]
Hit #1: 5 TP
Hit #2: 10 TP
Hit #3: 15 TP
Hit #4: 20 TP
Hit #5: 25 TP
Hit #6: 30 TP
Hit #7: 35 TP
Hit #8: 40 TP
Hit #9: 45 TP
Hit #10: 50 TP (Confirms 5.0 TP/hit, AND that the decimal is dropped, for those who were unsure)

Pup 96: Confirmation again
- Bare Fist: 340 delay; 4.9 TP/hit
Hit #10: 49 TP
- Hades Sainti (Delay +51): 391 delay; 5.3 TP/hit
Hit #10: 53 TP
- Kenkonken (75) (Delay+49, MA: Delay -20): 369 delay 5.0 TP/hit
Hit #10: 50 TP

Pup 97:
- Bare Fist: 320 delay; 4.8 TP/hit
[320/2 = 160; ( 5 + ( ( (160 - 180 ) * 1.5) / 180 ) ]
Hit #1: 4 TP
Hit #2: 9 TP
Hit #3: 14 TP
Hit #4: 19 TP
Hit #5: 24 TP
Hit #6: 28 TP
Hit #7: 33 TP
Hit #8: 38 TP
Hit #9: 43 TP
Hit #10: 48 TP (Confirms 4.8 TP/hit)

- Hades Sainti (Delay +51): 371 delay; 5.1 TP/hit
[371/2 = ; ( 5 + ( ( ( 185 - 180 ) * 6.5) / 270 ) ]
Hit #1: 5 TP
Hit #2: 10 TP
Hit #3: 15 TP
Hit #4: 20 TP
Hit #5: 25 TP
Hit #6: 30 TP
Hit #7: 35 TP
Hit #8: 40 TP
Hit #9: 45 TP
Hit #10: 51 TP (Confirms 5.1 TP/hit)

- Kenkonken (75) (Delay+49, MA: Delay -20): 349 delay; 4.9 TP/hit
[349/2 = 174.5; ( 5 + ( ( ( 174 - 180 ) * 1.5) / 180 ) ]
Hit #1: 4 TP
Hit #2: 9 TP
Hit #3: 14 TP
Hit #4: 19 TP
Hit #5: 24 TP
Hit #6: 29 TP
Hit #7: 34 TP
Hit #8: 39 TP
Hit #9: 44 TP
Hit #10: 49 TP (Confirms 4.9 TP/hit)

Who's the idiot, here, pchan?

[Zhronne]

Theytak marry me <3