Wheres the evidence Abyssea revived FFXI?

[Benihana]

Hi! Me and wifey recently reactivated our accounts now that 99 is here and endgame seems to be forming.

I've been reading the forums and i'm honestly in shock at some of you. Okay, here's a simple question, can someone, show me cold hard evidence ABYSSEA REVIVED FFXI? Because for me personally, me and my entire endgame ls QUIT BECAUSE of abyssea. Most of my friends quit for good and have yet to return.

So for those of you who keep spamming the board with nonsense, based on what seems to be YOUR personal experience, can you show me player data that supports it?

Because I have some! If you have been checking the active players list throughout the last year and a half since abyssea, you would notice it has gone UP these past few MONTHS. As in since the game has moved away from it.

That to me would suggest that the game isn't in anymore danger than it was when abyssea was the end and be all of endgame. Now, I'm not going to be a hypocrit and start spewing bs, saying I can prove that abyssea killed the game, but some of you are just down right delusional if you think abyssea helped ffxi.

Massive amounts of people quit when abyssea was released and supported. I very much doubt the league of people who came back to a more casual ffxi made up for the amount that quit, and even if they did, with 2 separate server merges and the active player list data MISSING from the ffxi consensus (which has been there every year for many years, coincidence, lol i think not)

Even if it did make up for those that quit, you have to remember, these are very casual players. Very casual players are much more unlikely to support a game long term. With ffxi's lifespan and current dev. team, do you really think SE has the resources to keep shelling out content so paper thin, so casuals will be satisfied? I think that would take more effort than giving endgame a more traditional ffxi endgame, which required team work and time to get the ultimate gear. It would probably take up less resources and keep people playing longer.

Now, I'm married and have a job etc, and I don't have the time to do oldschool endgame like I used to, but I do still enjoy that content and i will do what i can and focus on the things I personally enjoy.

Do i think 500 pw is reasonable? No, but I also could appreciate the journey in reaching for my goals in game. WHEN WAS ENDGAME EVER REASONABLE? from HNMs and salvage to abyssea, the time-effort ratio was either on one side, or the complete opposite. Abyssea was the 180 of salvage/hnms etc. That wasn't reasonable either, so that argument isn't valid. It boils down to what type of player you are. I prefer long term endgame goals with steady progress. I feel more accomplished and it keeps the game active and fun for me.

Now if I simply cant devote the time to such a goal, I don't do it. People need to stop bitching and complaining about stuff THEY PERSONALLY can't do and have no interest in.

Runspider/Ravenmore - You don't like the game? PLENTY OF US DO. When and if we stop enjoying it, we quit! We keep our money and do other things. If the game changes (which it has, thank god. I HATED abyssea era) I reactivate.

What I don't do it waste my time, money and resources complaining about a SMALL FRACTION of final fantasy xi.

FFXI has so much to freakin do. Do what you enjoy, and stop speaking for others. There is probably more people who don't come on these forums who enjoy the game, than all the posters on here combined.


Cause most people who don't have the time to commit to certain aspects (CERTAIN NOT ALL) also don't have the time and money to waste complaining...

When abysea came out, I wasted until 85 for new endgame stuff, and it didn't come. So me and my wife, along with most of our friends and ls members simply quit.

Me myself, I like a more traditional hardcore ENDGAME, if I don't like the endgame, I simply can't tolerate the game. I am very happy they have moved far away from abyssea and i will support them.

Am I gonna do 500 pws? Hell no, lol. But someone who wants the most POWERFUL, probably overpowered, ultimate weapon in game, WILL strive for it.

The rest of us will live with 75,80,85,90 and 95 relics,mythics and emps.


These are the ultimate weapons for f*ck sakes. This is the last upgrade. So u dont have the time to do it? Then be happy with what u can do. a lv95 version is still good.

I'm loving the game again and according the the active players list, the game isn't anymore in danger than it was when abyssea was the everything. So you're not enjoying the game? Do what I did and quit. Then SE wont have to care about you and they will cater to the rest of us who play the game and enjoy it.


If you can find me evidence that supports abyssea revived this game, awesome. I'll STFU. But there is more evidence to suggest it killed it.

People just wanna believe the game revolves around their personal interests and thats the be all and end all.

Fact check, there are 10 times AS MANY people who don't use this forum and play XI that do.

You don't speak for them. Your cries are just more public cause the rest of us either enjoy the game or move on.

[Neisan_Quetz]

What in the fuck did I just read?

If you think 500 PW is sane then I must ask you to check into the nearest mental health institution.

[Runespider]

Wheres the evidence Abyssea revived FFXI?

Hi! Me and wifey recently reactivated our accounts now that 99 is here and endgame seems to be forming.

I've been reading the forums and i'm honestly in shock at some of you. Okay, here's a simple question, can someone, show me cold hard evidence ABYSSEA REVIVED FFXI? Because for me personally, me and my entire endgame ls QUIT BECAUSE of abyssea. Most of my friends quit for good and have yet to return.

So for those of you who keep spamming the board with nonsense, based on what seems to be YOUR personal experience, can you show me player data that supports it?

Because I have some! If you have been checking the active players list throughout the last year and a half since abyssea, you would notice it has gone UP these past few MONTHS. As in since the game has moved away from it.

That to me would suggest that the game isn't in anymore danger than it was when abyssea was the end and be all of endgame. Now, I'm not going to be a hypocrit and start spewing bs, saying I can prove that abyssea killed the game, but some of you are just down right delusional if you think abyssea helped ffxi.

Massive amounts of people quit when abyssea was released and supported. I very much doubt the league of people who came back to a more casual ffxi made up for the amount that quit, and even if they did, with 2 separate server merges and the active player list data MISSING from the ffxi consensus (which has been there every year for many years, coincidence, lol i think not)

Even if it did make up for those that quit, you have to remember, these are very casual players. Very casual players are much more unlikely to support a game long term. With ffxi's lifespan and current dev. team, do you really think SE has the resources to keep shelling out content so paper thin, so casuals will be satisfied? I think that would take more effort than giving endgame a more traditional ffxi endgame, which required team work and time to get the ultimate gear. It would probably take up less resources and keep people playing longer.

Now, I'm married and have a job etc, and I don't have the time to do oldschool endgame like I used to, but I do still enjoy that content and i will do what i can and focus on the things I personally enjoy.

Do i think 500 pw is reasonable? No, but I also could appreciate the journey in reaching for my goals in game. WHEN WAS ENDGAME EVER REASONABLE? from HNMs and salvage to abyssea, the time-effort ratio was either on one side, or the complete opposite. Abyssea was the 180 of salvage/hnms etc. That wasn't reasonable either, so that argument isn't valid. It boils down to what type of player you are. I prefer long term endgame goals with steady progress. I feel more accomplished and it keeps the game active and fun for me.

Now if I simply cant devote the time to such a goal, I don't do it. People need to stop bitching and complaining about stuff THEY PERSONALLY can't do and have no interest in.

Runspider/Ravenmore - You don't like the game? PLENTY OF US DO. When and if we stop enjoying it, we quit! We keep our money and do other things. If the game changes (which it has, thank god. I HATED abyssea era) I reactivate.

What I don't do it waste my time, money and resources complaining about a SMALL FRACTION of final fantasy xi.

FFXI has so much to freakin do. Do what you enjoy, and stop speaking for others. There is probably more people who don't come on these forums who enjoy the game, than all the posters on here combined.


Cause most people who don't have the time to commit to certain aspects (CERTAIN NOT ALL) also don't have the time and money to waste complaining...

When abysea came out, I wasted until 85 for new endgame stuff, and it didn't come. So me and my wife, along with most of our friends and ls members simply quit.

Me myself, I like a more traditional hardcore ENDGAME, if I don't like the endgame, I simply can't tolerate the game. I am very happy they have moved far away from abyssea and i will support them.

Am I gonna do 500 pws? Hell no, lol. But someone who wants the most POWERFUL, probably overpowered, ultimate weapon in game, WILL strive for it.

The rest of us will live with 75,80,85,90 and 95 relics,mythics and emps.


These are the ultimate weapons for f*ck sakes. This is the last upgrade. So u dont have the time to do it? Then be happy with what u can do. a lv95 version is still good.

I'm loving the game again and according the the active players list, the game isn't anymore in danger than it was when abyssea was the everything. So you're not enjoying the game? Do what I did and quit. Then SE wont have to care about you and they will cater to the rest of us who play the game and enjoy it.


If you can find me evidence that supports abyssea revived this game, awesome. I'll STFU. But there is more evidence to suggest it killed it.

People just wanna believe the game revolves around their personal interests and thats the be all and end all.

Fact check, there are 10 times AS MANY people who don't use this forum and play XI that do.

You don't speak for them. Your cries are just more public cause the rest of us either enjoy the game or move on.


Welcome back to the game to you and your Wifey.

[Sparthos]

Defending 500 Wardens.... yeah, Stockholm's has you in its icy grip.

[cidbahamut]

Defending 500 Wardens.... yeah, Stockholm's has you in its icy grip.

This is a pretty concise summary of the majority of the playerbase in general.

[Karbuncle]

Defending 500 Wardens.... yeah, Stockholm's has you in its icy grip.

"Its okay, He only beats me cause he loves me..."

The feeling i get from the OP.

[Arcon]

Okay, here's a simple question, can someone, show me cold hard evidence ABYSSEA REVIVED FFXI?

No. No one can. Also, people should stop mentioning that 500 PW garbage already. It's getting old.

[Runespider]

No. No one can. Also, people should stop mentioning that 500 PW garbage already. It's getting old.

If Abyssea never happened, how many people would be playing FFXI now?

Just before Aby people were bored out of their fricking skulls of the same old content over and over infinitum, the playerbase was dying before Aby and people know that to be the case.

Salvage, Ein, Kings, sky, limbus, Dynamis. Abyssea came at just the right time for me and many others, we all went and tried FF14 but came back because FFXI was actaulyl fun to play again.

[Haruka-Ash]

i got banned because i grinded like mad what else do you need to know?

[Tohihroyu]

They come, they join, get 99 (or 95 if last LB is QQ too hard!), get the gear they want, get bored, quit.

For those returning: Don't bother, quit after the first day back.

[Arcon]

If Abyssea never happened, how many people would be playing FFXI now?

I'm pretty sure you think no one. And I'm pretty sure you're very wrong, even aside from the fact that you assume that nothing else would have been released in its place, which is irrelevant to this discussion, because no one said that nothing should have been released. Just not Abyssea.

[Benihana]

What in the fuck did I just read?

If you think 500 PW is sane then I must ask you to check into the nearest mental health institution.

Are you and Spathos like retarded?

How can you guys expect a SE producer to take you seriously when you can't even read?

You let your emotions and e-rage guide you on a freakin VIDEO GAME? JUST QUIT LIKE THE REST OF US DID and come back when you can find something in game you enjoy doing.

I SPECIFICALLY SAID and I QUOTE

"Do i think 500 pw is reasonable? No, but I also could appreciate the journey in reaching for my goals in game. WHEN WAS ENDGAME EVER REASONABLE?

I ALSO said I would never attempt 500 pws.. So how am i defending them? No im not defending.. I'm just not going to concern myself a VERY SMALL issue. It is a small issue to me because I DONT HAVE THE F*CKING TIME to do it, so I simply wouldn't try or care.

If the game is so terrible and you can't find stuff to do, QUIT and stfu. I was gonna be nice but when I see people saying im defending 500 pws.. I'm sorry I cannot with stupid people, i'm sorry.

Most of you don't even have a mythic, and if you do, deal with it or quit. It is not that deep or that big of a deal. If it is, quit.

So much stuff to do in game, and if you're casual why are u complaining about a requirement that is clearly beyond your capability?

I know why. Because you think you're entitled to have EVERYTHING fit your playstyle.

Fact check, people enjoy different things and have different play styles.

The game is in fact, built now in such a way that it caters both casual and hardcore.

You are mad you have to do serious grind for the most powerful weapon class in the entire game? Well too bad!

Deal with it. It's the best. If you're so mad the best of the bestest best is out of your reach (its even out of my reach, do i care? NO. I DONT CARE ABOUT STUFF I CANT DO, BECAUSE THERE IS PLENTY OF SH*T TO DO)

jeez some of you need a big slice of stfu and i honestly hope SE ignores you. Cause your tears are delicious tbh.

stay mad and quit, or enjoy the content u can do...

[Neisan_Quetz]

Holy raging wall of text about idiocy. I play because my friends do and I enjoy doing things in game with them. You seriously tried to call a trial 'hardcore' for which was effectively 3 years of playing nonstop to finish 1 weapon on a MMO. That isn't hardcore that's the point of insanity, especially after their 'don't forget friends/family' bullshit they post at you before you login. But yeah, you're just retarded. Have a nice day anyway.

[Benihana]

Oh, and btw, don't think I didn't notice not ONE SINGLE ONE OF YOU presented me with the evidence i requested.

Abyssea didn't revive diddly squat.

[Zarchery]

Probably none. It's the same mentality that says "My suggestion wasn't acted upon, so SE doesn't listen to the playerbase". People have their preferences in life, and assume that the whole world shares them and the whole world should cater to them.

People gripe that Abyssea was fun, but nothing that came after Abyssea was fun, like Abyssea doesn't exist any more. If everything was as easy as Abyssea, you'd blast through it in a month then be in the same place, griping "There's nothing to do!"

Though if there's something out there that would require you to kill Pandemonium Warden 500 times, that's just ridiculous.

[Benihana]

Holy raging wall of text about idiocy. I play because my friends do and I enjoy doing things in game with them. But yeah, you're just retarded. Have a nice day anyway.

You're the one who can't read or provide evidence to support such a luducris and bold claim.

I'll say it again, Abyssea more than likely hurt the player base community for many reasons, including social aspect, team work and effort-payoff ratio. I never said kings or hnm was the perfect balance, its the 180. Neither is healthy for either casuals or hardcores.

My point was, so many of the same user keep posting the nonsense that abbysea revived ffxi, even tho it came with a SECOND server merge due to the base extreme decline.. . All i'm asking if for anyone who claims it helped the game, to show me evidence. I myself don't have evidence to support the fact it hurt ffxi, all im saying is, there is plenty more to support it caused a serious decline, as opposed to helping revive the community.

A dozen of the same user spamming "omg abyssea was amazing, it revived ffxi for me" over and over again isn't evidence. You can get a dozen users from bluegartr who hated abyssea and quit because of it. What does that prove? Diddly squat.

If it revived it so much, why a second server merge? Why was the active players list on ffxiah so much lower during the year abyssea was all there was? Why is it higher now that it's moved away from abyssea?

And why didn't they include the player data in the consensus?

I just want some answers. I'm not for 500 pws anymore than abyssea-onry. I'm just sayin, ya'll sound delusional tbh saying abyssea helped ffxi. My flist has 20 ppl, 17 quit during ff14/abyssea era. That is my personal experience.

[Runespider]

I'm pretty sure you think no one. And I'm pretty sure you're very wrong, even aside from the fact that you assume that nothing else would have been released in its place, which is irrelevant to this discussion, because no one said that nothing should have been released. Just not Abyssea.

Well there was never before anything like Abyssea, it opened the game to everyone when before it was content for a minority (and yes I was in that minority and I still thought it was stupid), it also removed the huge timesinks, the roster of events all timed for you to fill the week and the LS for everything mindset (remember the irritation of finding a ls for the events you wanted to do in your timezone around your work schedule?). I think that is it's major successes, it's failing was XP made too easy and brews etc. Abyssea I think was still the best thing ever to happen to the game and I'm sad there won't be anymore of it, the next year of more VW and WoE will show how much people like the new endgame I guess (what do you think of WoE and VW btw Arcon? Assuming you do them).


I just want some answers

You don't deserve the time to give them, go play the game for a few months and maybe you can make an informed decision. Go try Abyssea with your friends/wifey/ls and then go try the new premier content (WoE/VW) and lets see what you think then, your opinion would hold more merit if you had more experience and not just got back shouting at people that are actually doing the stuff.

[Benihana]

Well there was never before anything like Abyssea, it opened the game to everyone when before it was content for a minority (and yes I was in that minority and I still thought it was stupid), it also removed the huge timesinks, the roster of events all timed for you to fill the week and the LS for everything mindset (remember the irritation of finding a ls for the events you wanted to do in your timezone around your work schedule?). I think that is it's major successes, it's failing was XP made too easy and brews etc. Abyssea I think was still the best thing ever to happen to the game and I'm sad there won't be anymore of it, the next year of more VW and WoE will show how much people like the new endgame I guess (what do you think of WoE and VW btw Acron? Assuming you do them).

Sweety, that is delusional thinking. Take my word for it, a lot of people quit because of it. So many quitting because of it doesn't mean anything good for the game.

I can link you to a thread on bg asking people why they quit etc. It's quite interesting.

You can't just throw a game that has spent the past 8-9 years applying a specific play-by-play formula, a 180 and expect it to have great results.

Was abyssea a great addition to xi? In some ways, but you have to ask yourself, why some people play xi as opposed to other mmos. Especially long time players. For me, the grind of endgame made the game seem bigger or more fun. I like time sinks that require thought or focus. I like steady progress on my gear equips.

When abyssea came, I just didn't enjoy the simplicity of it in the long run. Like hnm and kings, at first it's amazing. Old endgame kept you motivated if you were determined for whatever reason, but those grinds got boring too. With abyssea, it was a breathe of fresh air, but many people just breezed through it and it felt empty.

One is the complete opposite of the other, but which is better? The content you finish quickly or the one that takes a long time? I was one for the longer goals. Kept the game interesting and fun, especially when I had to farm or go hunting.

Abyssea grind was much easier and more fun, but I think in final fantasy xi, after 8-9 years of the old way, it just hurts the formula.

I mean, why not play wow or rift? Honestly, they are much more fun for if you're into abyssea xi in the long run. I liked xi's for their grinds. W.o it, the game is just a more boring version of wow honestly..

is 500 pws the type of grind im talking about? no.. but i LOVED ZNM before it became gimp and i loved salvage.

[Neisan_Quetz]

My FL is 94 friends, approximately 15 are fairly regularly logging on since 99 cap, 6 have quit since level cap was raised. In my case, nothing changed at all other than a few people actually coming back to try the game again with 2 leaving out of boredom. I've had about as many quit before Abyssea in 2008-2009 as I've had since it came out.

[Tagrineth]

Your one linkshell quit because of Abyssea.

On Quetz, I took a year off or so and reactivated right when Scars of Abyssea came out.. and at some point, lost count of just how many old names I saw all over the place over the following months.

This literally became a daily conversation for me for a while, in exp parties as well as /tells from bumping into people in Jeuno:

Me> "Oh hey _______ I thought you quit a long time ago!"
Them> "Yeah I reactivated because Abyssea"


He said

She said

Blah blah blah

[cidbahamut]

Why does every slack-jawed yokel feel the need to scream "you can't complain about bad game design, you can only quit in silence" when confronted about FFXI's monstrous shortcomings?

[Benihana]

My FL is 94 friends, approximately 15 are fairly regularly logging on since 99 cap, 6 have quit since level cap was raised. In my case, nothing changed at all other than a few people actually coming back to try the game again with 2 leaving out of boredom. I've had about as many quit before Abyssea in 2008-2009 as I've had since it came out.

Well, that's my point boo. Ain't nobody mad or nuthin. I'm sorry for the caps but I'm tired of reading bs about tanaka or abyssea. I want cold hard facts.

If tanaka has always been in charge... He's also responsible for the abyssea era and all the good things. If he is just the producer, the other members of the team should also take responsibility for any bs. Why it's targeting just him, yet praising abyssea when he was a part of the creative team is quite strange to me.

If just as many quit during abyssea and before.. Um... then doesn't that say it didn't revive the game? At the very best, it didn't change anything. It's just that whiner's are always heard as opposed to people who are either going on about their playstyle of doing other things they enjoy.

Runespider, you sand ravenmore have spammed this forum saying the same old things. All I'm asking you to do is back it up with some evidence, but if all you have to say is, "go play the game and see for yourself!" well I just got a shiney new strendu ring and turned in my lv.90 relic for the 95 version!^___________^

Very happy, and i am far far far away from abyssea. Never going back. . . . . So tired of emp grind.

I'm not even saying anyone is really wrong. I'm simply asking people to stop making stuff up and spamming the forum with bs. We get it, you're unhappy with the game. You've said it 10 times before. At this point, aside from wondering where you get the impression abyssea revived ffxi, I'm wondering why you're still playing a game you hate?

idkmybffjillTBH

[wish12oz]

All I read in the OP is:
I played FFXI in a botting HNMLS and was able to dominate the server because we used bots to claim everything and drive everyone else away. When this aspect of being able to win everything always and be the best was taken away from my LS, we got mad because we had to actually learn how to play and learn how to do the new content. And our LS was actually really bad and couldn't hack it, so they all quit.

I say these things from experience btw, I was in an LS like that before abyssea came out, and 90% of them quit too. It was because they were terrible and could no longer be the best because their bots couldn't dominate everyone else. Saddly even before Abyssea came out, there were 5 or 6 new members in the LS every month because endgame was stale and old and just not fun anymore. The only people who joined were people who wanted that 1 item they missed, after they got it, they left. The leaders of the LS were ok with this, since they were just using everyone in the LS to farm gil for them to get relics anyway, and didnt care about the revolving door going through the LS, or that 90% of its members were horrible.

Know what Abyssea did that saved the game? It removed bots, it made you able to accomplish your goals with a small group of friends that you actually liked, and it removed all those old hat botters who couldn't actually hack it.

Welcome back btw, good luck with getting going in abyssea, because thats the only content worth doing still. (Except some dynamis)

[Arcon]

Well there was never before anything like Abyssea, it opened the game to everyone when before it was content for a minority (and yes I was in that minority and I still thought it was stupid), it also removed the huge timesinks, the roster of events all timed for you to fill the week and the LS for everything mindset (remember the irritation of finding a ls for the events you wanted to do in your timezone around your work schedule?). I think that is it's major successes, it's failing was XP made too easy and brews etc. Abyssea I think was still the best thing ever to happen to the game and I'm sad there won't be anymore of it, the next year of more VW and WoE will show how much people like the new endgame I guess (what do you think of WoE and VW btw Acron? Assuming you do them).

It's quite obvious we disagree on pretty much everything that can be considered an opinion. I did pretty much everything in the game at any given point in time. I did everything but HNM camping with a social LS (though we even claimed/killed Fafnir and Tiamat at one point, thanks to some dedicated campers). We did mission runs, assault runs, had regular events for sea, sky, Dynamis, Limbus, Einherjar and on odd occasion did quests and random events like Ouryu/B2 and KS99. So how exactly was content just for the minority? The only thing that wasn't completely accessible to everyone was HNMs and that's it. Everything else was being done by everyone. Farming sea once a week we got millions of gil for our LS members who were all casual players (most of them even noobs) from selling Novios. I think it was Greatguardian who said it before, content was always easily accessible, only it wasn't always as apparent as during the Abyssea era.

Abyssea tried very hard to tell absolutely everyone how easy it is to just abandon your LS and go with your duo/trio group and compete against old friends and strangers just to get your empyrean weapon first. In that way it gave a taste of botting to the casual population, who never asked for it before (botting for ??? spawns and tracking VNMs spring to mind). While it wasn't anywhere as bad, it was enough to piss off lots of people (for which they also complained shitloads on this very forum, just fyi).

You try so hard to convince me that everyone agrees with you, yet the things you mention were Abyssean flaws most people actually appreciate, namely cheap brews and easy EXP. And I will defend those too, it's pretty much the only thing I liked about Abyssea. Grinds in Abyssea were always mindless, brews could at least speed them up. And EXP? I can't believe that people bashing old EXP rates can call Abyssean EXP rates a mistake. Old EXP was the reason I only had three jobs leveled up before Abyssea in years of playing. If anything preventing me from participating in endgame it wasn't the content itself, it was that I lacked a proper job. If you didn't have BLM, what were your choices? Solo your way to 75 (which I did, although my soloing was interrupted by Abyssea at 60) or just not ever level the job, because you sure as hell wouldn't get party invites on it. So if you're saying easy EXP was a flaw, you're basically disagreeing with yourself saying that it's a good thing that Abyssea allowed content to everyone.

There's parts about WoE I like and parts about VW I like. There's parts about WoE I hate and parts about VW I hate. Just like with Abyssea, and almost every other event or aspect in or of FFXI. But they're not all I'm looking forward to, I'm looking forward to SE fixing events that the level cap increase and Abyssea destroyed (revival of Limbus, Einherjar and possibly Salvage), as well as the two new announced systems, the Last Stand and the new dungeon crawl system.

VW battles are fun ish. I think the Atmacite and temporary items are a mistake, just like Atma and temporary items in Abyssea, but the fights can still be enjoyable. If they go and address the loot issues, it may even be worth doing aside from heavy metal plates to me (that goes both for WoE as well as VW, because the loot system is what's wrong with both of them, and this includes both drop rate and loot distribution).

[Greatguardian]

No one's pointed out the evidentiary fallacy yet?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

OP is just a giant ball of retard and rage.

[Benihana]

All I read in the OP is:
I played FFXI in a botting HNMLS and was able to dominate the server because we used bots to claim everything and drive everyone else away. When this aspect of being able to win everything always and be the best was taken away from my LS, we got mad because we had to actually learn how to play and learn how to do the new content. And our LS was actually really bad and couldn't hack it, so they all quit.

I say these things from experience btw, I was in an LS like that before abyssea came out, and 90% of them quit too. It was because they were terrible and could no longer be the best because their bots couldn't dominate everyone else. Saddly even before Abyssea came out, there were 5 or 6 new members in the LS every month because endgame was stale and old and just not fun anymore. The only people who joined were people who wanted that 1 item they missed, after they got it, they left. The leaders of the LS were ok with this, since they were just using everyone in the LS to farm gil for them to get relics anyway, and didnt care about the revolving door going through the LS, or that 90% of its members were horrible.

Know what Abyssea did that saved the game? It removed bots, it made you able to accomplish your goals with a small group of friends that you actually liked, and it removed all those old hat botters who couldn't actually hack it.

Welcome back btw, good luck with getting going in abyssea, because thats the only content worth doing still. (Except some dynamis)

Oh pleaseeeee.

Yeah because those same botters aren't using them on vnms and stuff. It removed bots? Someone should screen this and post in the official forums fail. Yeah right at abyssea removing bots?

Get outta here with that nonsense. lol

[Arcon]

Yeah because those same botters aren't using them on vnms and stuff. It removed bots? Someone should screen this and post in the official forums fail. Yeah right at abyssea removing bots?

It didn't at first, but by now using bots is only really good for fishing, everything else is really not worth it. VNMs can't be tracked locally anymore. There's hardly anything to claimwar over (maybe Guku or Tunga, but finding it and getting to it in time is the major issue, not claiming it). So yeah, botting isn't really present these days anymore.

[Benihana]

Whatever i'm not focused on stuff i can't do, and im enjoying vw and dynamis.

I'm not mad, and not worried. I'm glad 99 is here and you said it best GG!

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. I stand by point, anyone who thinks abyssea revived xi, feel free to prove this. Until then, I'm going to go by my personal observation in that it hurt the player base.

In any case. I have studying to do and I'm done arguing with people on a forum about a game i enjoy and they don't.

Stay mad. Me? I'm gonna have fun, and if xi stops providing that sense of enjoyment, i'll go elsewhere.

The rest of you can stay on here and complain, while keeping the game afloat for people who enjoy it like me ^____________^

since you have to pay for the game to come on here and complain.

Peace

[Benihana]

Theres a diffference between providing feedback, and senseless complaining and moaning.

I don't get how people can throw money at SE and hate them so much. lolz.

Bye.

[cidbahamut]

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. I stand by point, anyone who thinks abyssea revived xi, feel free to prove this. Until then, I'm going to go by my personal observation in that it hurt the player base.


And everyone else other people are going to go by their personal observations that Abyssea made the game Suck Less.

Was there a point you were trying to make or were you just flailing and having a serious case of iMad?

[Runespider]

Bye.

You posted something good finally.


VW battles are fun ish. I think the Atmacite and temporary items are a mistake, just like Atma and temporary items in Abyssea, but the fights can still be enjoyable. If they go and address the loot issues, it may even be worth doing aside from heavy metal plates to me (that goes both for WoE as well as VW, because the loot system is what's wrong with both of them, and this includes both drop rate and loot distribution).

We agree on something it seems.

[Sparthos]

Tell me, how was XI pre-Abyssea? I just want to get a feel for how people felt the game was in '09.

Personally, I felt the game had never been in a worse place.

[Vold]

Someday we're all going to agree that Abyssea is what it is, just another chapter in the grand journey of FFXI. Sadly we'll be in the grave before it happens and will have had trained our children and grand children to take over the good fight long after we're DEAD.

[Ravenmore]

To bad the OP sounds just like the little White knighters that Defended and are still defending SE with FF14. The failure that lead that game into ground is now solely devoted to FF11 again. FF11 got people try it with the name Final Fantasy by time they found out it was a massive grind fest just like EQ it was to late they had to much invested.

[Chaz]

Sweety, that is delusional thinking. Take my word for it, a lot of people quit because of it. So many quitting because of it doesn't mean anything good for the game.

I can link you to a thread on bg asking people why they quit etc. It's quite interesting.

You can't just throw a game that has spent the past 8-9 years applying a specific play-by-play formula, a 180 and expect it to have great results.

Was abyssea a great addition to xi? In some ways, but you have to ask yourself, why some people play xi as opposed to other mmos. Especially long time players. For me, the grind of endgame made the game seem bigger or more fun. I like time sinks that require thought or focus. I like steady progress on my gear equips.

When abyssea came, I just didn't enjoy the simplicity of it in the long run. Like hnm and kings, at first it's amazing. Old endgame kept you motivated if you were determined for whatever reason, but those grinds got boring too. With abyssea, it was a breathe of fresh air, but many people just breezed through it and it felt empty.

One is the complete opposite of the other, but which is better? The content you finish quickly or the one that takes a long time? I was one for the longer goals. Kept the game interesting and fun, especially when I had to farm or go hunting.

Abyssea grind was much easier and more fun, but I think in final fantasy xi, after 8-9 years of the old way, it just hurts the formula.

I mean, why not play wow or rift? Honestly, they are much more fun for if you're into abyssea xi in the long run. I liked xi's for their grinds. W.o it, the game is just a more boring version of wow honestly..

is 500 pws the type of grind im talking about? no.. but i LOVED ZNM before it became gimp and i loved salvage.


No thanks. How about this. You provide hard facts/numbers to support your claims before you demand people prove you wrong.

[wish12oz]

Oh pleaseeeee.

Yeah because those same botters aren't using them on vnms and stuff. It removed bots? Someone should screen this and post in the official forums fail. Yeah right at abyssea removing bots?

Get outta here with that nonsense. lol

Do you even know what a bot is Beni? Do you understand the concept of botting at all or what bots did?
ASE = not a bot, and thats all anyone used in abyssea because it was the only thing worth using.

EDIT::: The only nonsense here is the person who admittedly quit and didn't play during abyssea, and doesn't know anything about abyssea or what occured claiming they know something about what abyssea did or did not do.


It didn't at first, but by now using bots is only really good for fishing, everything else is really not worth it. VNMs can't be tracked locally anymore. There's hardly anything to claimwar over (maybe Guku or Tunga, but finding it and getting to it in time is the major issue, not claiming it). So yeah, botting isn't really present these days anymore.

It did remove them at first actually, because there wasn't even anything worth claim botting til empyreans were upped to level 85, and even then people didn't do it. Every time I went to abyssea everything was basically up and unclaimed until well after lvl 90 when people really started to make empyreans. Hell, I remember being mad when Tunga would spawn because no one would kill it and it was in the way of my fell cleave exp. And by the time everyone was 90, bots had fallen away and a lot of them couldnt even be used anymore. And now, with all KIs being in gold chests, there's no need to even try and compete for tunga or gukumatz or any of the other ones. You're better off cleaving and getting merits/leveling your friends jobs/your mules and having them hold KIs from chests for you then trying to claim anything, because you're accomplishing more then if you were just camping 1 or 2 mobs.

[cidbahamut]

Tell me, how was XI pre-Abyssea? I just want to get a feel for how people felt the game was in '09.

Personally, I felt the game had never been in a worse place.
I wouldn't have made it past the first week if I hadn't been starting from scratch with a friend. It was pretty barren and unwelcoming in '09. I was pretty much convinced we were the only new players on the entire server.

[Ravenmore]

Tell me, how was XI pre-Abyssea? I just want to get a feel for how people felt the game was in '09.

Personally, I felt the game had never been in a worse place.

It was a depressing time in the game I was basicly on a break while still keeping my account open. I seen the writing on the wall that funds were being funnaled into FF14 at the expense of FF11 updates. Name one other MMO that it took 3 years to finish putting in the content for a expanison, not tweaks but just to get the story line finished I can't think of one(other then FF14 but that was fail out the gate). WoTG did more damage to the game then Abyssea could dream of.

The old endgamers that left would had quit no matter what came after old endgame even if it was VWNM if it still rendered kings and the rest of endgame they could control people over a waste of time. As long as it was side grade gear or out of reach for all but them they were fine with it.

[Runespider]

Amazing really, Square were totally incompetent dealing with bots then Abyssea and they all DIED on the spot more or less. The game changed from night and day, bots just weren't an issue anymore and nobody really wanted them, when they tried to fight them they failed and in the end they beat them by accident. Quite a few people got rich off those times too.

I don't think most people actually knew how widespread botting was at the end, due to the devs being unable to counter it.

[Eric]

Tell me, how was XI pre-Abyssea? I just want to get a feel for how people felt the game was in '09.

Personally, I felt the game had never been in a worse place.

I remember taking 4 jobs to level ~60 and having to quit and start leveling another job because I couldn't get any EXP parties past that point.

I remember some of my terribad LS mates telling me that I should rely on 3k/hr exp rates in campaign because they were so amazing.

I remember having to constantly explain to my endgame LS that I was too busy with university and a social life to attend every single event that was "required", because if I didn't, I'd get kicked out.

[Flionheart]

I never liked endgame pre Abyssea. Abyssea rekindled my enjoyment with the game.

Voidwatch isn't bad either, though not as accessible for smaller groups.

[Runespider]

I remember having to constantly explain to my endgame LS that I was busy with university and a social life to attend every single event that was "required" or else I'd get kicked out.

lol the more I think about old FFXI the more I'm amazed we stuck with it, HNMLS leaders keeping tabs on me, complaints if you weren't at events, points.., backstabbing to get loting rights over others, bot domination, timetables, horrible drop rates..god old FFXI was brutal.

[Flionheart]

I also had a huge problem getting into a HNM shell due to my timezone being UK. I couldn't stay up until 5am every day and without attending events I never got to lot on anything. I saw so many BB items fall to the ground simply because I didn't have the points.

[Sparthos]

lol the more I think about old FFXI the more I'm amazed we stuck with it, HNMLS leaders keeping tabs on me, complaints if you weren't at events, points.., backstabbing to get loting rights over others, bot domination, timetables, horrible drop rates..god old FFXI was brutal.

Psst, bro. You're online and Fafnir is open. Why aren't you here again?

What? You wanna squeeze in EXP because you've got days off? Does it look like I care? I said Fafnir is open and your DKP spreadsheet is also open right now. You gonna show? Or am I gonna knock off 30points to make you an example?

Btw, keep an eye on Adamantoise. That opens right after Fafnir and we need ppl there.

[Zinato]

It interesting that this argument has begun again. When Abyssea was released "EVERYONE" hated it saying it was too easy and everything dropped too quickly. Now, nearly a year and a half later "EVERYONE" is saying Abyssea is the only fun thing in the game. If all the players that were upset left when Abyssea was released and now everyone who likes Abyssea leaves its likely going to result in more server mergers. That of course, being a major if as I do not think all these players actually leave when they complain, they simply continue paying and SE continues to make money.

As stated in an interview found on another thread the devs are now struggling with the impact Abyssea has had on the player base mentality. (This is from experience on the Asura server I can not speak for all servers or the entire players base, these are only trends.) More and more players are doing things in smaller and smaller groups, in many cases ignoring proc requirements for NMs in favor of more loot or less people interaction. For example, a shout for a farm run for C-C requesting nothing but a BLM/BRD. I asked the shouter why he would do that and the response I got was working with others is too much of a bother, not even worth 100% proc coverage. The bigger issue seems to be with empyrean, players mandate empyrean from all DD in VW shout runs and many VW shells require them for entry. Even with level 99 Magian or other weapons such as the 89 job specific, and even with great gear, new ws etc. I have seen perle players with VS and Ukon take DD spots.

"If the game has it, I should be able to get it." Relic and Mythic were never ment for everyone, the best is a luxury not mandatory by any means. If everyone acquires the ultimate power its no longer ultimate simply dime-a-dozen like empyrean has become. Its exactly this type of thinking which causes players to ignore non empyrean players and assume players without are "worthless", "well everyone else has one you should too." Old endgame events could be done in average gear, the only thing better gear did was allow for smaller groups. All abyssea has done is caused casuals to believe "and in cases forced into" getting the best gear is the minimum to play. The devs built 75 to be a place that you could choose how you got your gear, Sky, Sea, Dynamis, Salvage, Storylines, Nyzul, Einherjar, Campaign, HNM choose the event style you like best and the gear you recieved would help you get others. They are desperately trying to re-enstate that type of balance, empyrean and +2 should not tower over all others even the balance of non relic vs relic/mythic was within reason they were better for the time they took but not enough that they were a must.

The idea of if the game has it I should be able to obtain it is obsurd, and players have forgotten that. In fact, friends of mine players of other MMOs including WoW, let me repeat INCLUDING WOW, have been laughing at the state of FFXI for sometime and not just abyssea. Leveling from 1-99 in 3 days, thats not even abyssea leeching. EXP does not make a game but it is a factor in any RPG and especially any MMO. For everyone to be walking around with nearly the best weapons on every job they have, to be maxed level, for everyone to look exactly the same and for a player to have 10 fully geared jobs in a few months is laughable to other MMO players even WoW which the FFXI community considers the childs/easy game.

Players have had a taste of godhood and now are not willing to give it up, the DEVs know this. Right now the game feels like little more then the 4 part .hack series, a place a team of 3 can do anything, leveling 1-99 takes 120hrs with story quests included, the ultimate weapons take nothing more then a game breaking device used repeatedly on specific enemies.

I personally hope the game takes a team aspect again, If that were the case WoE and VW would not be in such a state, and Vanadiel might actually take castle zvhal once more. If players can complain they have to work with 5 other people to get to 99, then the mentality still needs time to set in. Loot whoring was a major issue at 75 and the DEVs have made an effort to correct that, is it perfect yet no, but its a good step forward. The idea of an ultimate set of gear should be abolished and players may one day again have choices of how they get their gear. (mind you +2 may very well be on that list but should not be, be all end all. The game had a rocky ride to 99, but I am hoping in the coming months the game returns to the style it was before.

TL;DR - Players have lost sight of teamwork for reward, and somehow got the idea in their heads that its Ultimate gear set or a job is unplayable (which is why players want said gear so fast, so they can use a job)

I am finished feel free to flame me now.

[Glacont]

Psst, bro. You're online and Fafnir is open. Why aren't you here again?

What? You wanna squeeze in EXP because you've got days off? Does it look like I care? I said Fafnir is open and your DKP spreadsheet is also open right now. You gonna show? Or am I gonna knock off 30points to make you an example?

Btw, keep an eye on Adamantoise. That opens right after Fafnir and we need ppl there.

Holy Sh~, You've Frighten Me! lmao

[Flionheart]

I don't think anyone cares what you think apart from the fact you're one of the most hated people in ffxi lol.

Stop getting


Terrible shell with terrible leaders im from the uk aswell and my old linkshell on quetz kazoku got everyone geared in a very small period of time.

Maybe it was down to your terrible attitude and been a doucebag as to why you got screwed!

So mad

You =/= everyone cabrón.

[newmonkey]

Not mad at all just pointing out some facts theres a reason you're banned from ffxiah and bg forums.

[Runespider]

I also had a huge problem getting into a HNM shell due to my timezone being UK. I couldn't stay up until 5am every day and without attending events I never got to lot on anything. I saw so many BB items fall to the ground simply because I didn't have the points.

I was the same but in a game where the domnant players were JP or US you had to either not do endgame very often or stay up to fit into their timezones (and put up with the crap that went with it), I did Ein etc at 2am. I still remember trying to stay awake for late night events and very often falling asleep waiting for people to gather...then being told off the next day for it.


TL;DR - Players have lost sight of teamwork for reward, and somehow got the idea in their heads that its Ultimate gear set or a job is unplayable (which is why players want said gear so fast, so they can use a job)

Teamwork was cool and all, I liked it in old FF and i like it now in VW. The problem was as stated above, getting groups in your timezone, gather times, point systems, bottlenecks, 16 year old LS leaders talking to you like you were a POS and you took it cause if you left the chance of getting another LS in the time you could attend was nil blah blah In a perfect world 18 player content of the past would be amazing, in reality for most people it was craptastic and ruined your outside life.

Thats why everyone dumped their shells, even the hardcore endgamers that ran them or were the core members.

[Olor]

Your one linkshell quit because of Abyssea.

On Quetz, I took a year off or so and reactivated right when Scars of Abyssea came out.. and at some point, lost count of just how many old names I saw all over the place over the following months.

This literally became a daily conversation for me for a while, in exp parties as well as /tells from bumping into people in Jeuno:

Me> "Oh hey _______ I thought you quit a long time ago!"
Them> "Yeah I reactivated because Abyssea"


He said

She said

Blah blah blah

I would have never come back without Abyssea. Now that the devs are going back to their "grinding for no reward in full alliances is fun!" ethic, I am not putting crysta back in the account.

The OP has anecdotal evidence - my own experience is anecdotal evidence - but I can say, I saw a lot of "I've heard the game is less soul destroying now so I want to come back" threads on the Zam while abyssea was in full swing - while I haven't seen one yet saying "I heard the game is returning to a soul destroying grind so I am coming back" threads on the same forum.

[Luvbunny]

A

I SPECIFICALLY SAID and I QUOTE

"Do i think 500 pw is reasonable? No, but I also could appreciate the journey in reaching for my goals in game. WHEN WAS ENDGAME EVER REASONABLE?

I ALSO said I would never attempt 500 pws.. So how am i defending them? No im not defending.. I'm just not going to concern myself a VERY SMALL issue. It is a small issue to me because I DONT HAVE THE F*CKING TIME to do it, so I simply wouldn't try or care.


Hypocrite statement.... so you like "barance" challenging unreasonable trials yet you are not even attempt to do it at all but want this to be implemented so "other people but yourself" can go through the ordeal???

No, no, no. Abyssea is great, it gives options for many casual players or just people in general who refuse to go do the hamster masochist wheel of tanaka's. The game is great as it is - MANY OPTIONS for both casual and hardcore. If "grinding" for artificial challenge with very little result is your thing - there are many activities for you to do - from the classic bcnm, revamped dyna, forgotten WoE, to Logwatch..err Voidwatch. Others who rather take the sane way with much better rewards in short amount of time do Abyssea.

Abyssea is a double edge sword - good players will take great advantage of it and bad players will become even worse - these never go away even before Abyssea. Some people are inherently bad - no matter how many elite gears they have - they still suck because they have very little idea on how to play the job.

[Tamoa]

Not mad at all just pointing out some facts theres a reason you're banned from ffxiah and bg forums.

What the hell does that have to do with endgame as it used to be back at 75 cap?

I'm with Flion, I'm EU aswell and being EU and trying to do endgame successfully pre-abyssea was hard. Your average EU shell couldn't kill squat, which is why I never got to do Einherjar until late 2009 when I joined an endgame shell that actually tried to do events at a time that their EU members could attend. But those shells were few and far between, at least the successful ones.

[Zerich]

Well there was never before anything like Abyssea, it opened the game to everyone when before it was content for a minority (and yes I was in that minority and I still thought it was stupid), it also removed the huge timesinks, the roster of events all timed for you to fill the week and the LS for everything mindset (remember the irritation of finding a ls for the events you wanted to do in your timezone around your work schedule?). I think that is it's major successes, it's failing was XP made too easy and brews etc. Abyssea I think was still the best thing ever to happen to the game and I'm sad there won't be anymore of it, the next year of more VW and WoE will show how much people like the new endgame I guess (what do you think of WoE and VW btw Arcon? Assuming you do them).



You don't deserve the time to give them, go play the game for a few months and maybe you can make an informed decision. Go try Abyssea with your friends/wifey/ls and then go try the new premier content (WoE/VW) and lets see what you think then, your opinion would hold more merit if you had more experience and not just got back shouting at people that are actually doing the stuff.

amen, we want content that will keep us involved/interested. yes, we are playing an mmo and there are timesink elements to these events to make sure that we keep renewing our subscription fees each month. [A] was fail because you could gear X-mule on Y-job with empy in 1-2 weeks, with nothing in the way of a timesink, except for leveling/gearing multiple jobs...VW is fail because you can grind X-NM for Y-pops and have an approx 1% chance of shiny new item (that's if you're lucky and are maxing out lights, lol). letting my crysta run out.

[newmonkey]

What the hell does that have to do with endgame as it used to be back at 75 cap?

I'm with Flion, I'm EU aswell and being EU and trying to do endgame successfully pre-abyssea was hard. Your average EU shell couldn't kill squat, which is why I never got to do Einherjar until late 2009 when I joined an endgame shell that actually tried to do events at a time that their EU members could attend. But those shells were few and far between, at least the successful ones.

Well that sucks for you aswell but this wasn't the case for everyone.

[Zerich]

You used to talk shit to people daily for no reason at all, you even came to bg and started with your childish nonsense.

you can always flag people for harassment if they are abusing the rulez
:P
that'll take away their posting powers.

it's a forum, but plz, no flame-wars.

[Flionheart]

you can always flag people for harassment if they are abusing the rulez
:P
that'll take away their posting powers.

it's a forum, but plz, no flame-wars.


Thanks, will do.

[saevel]

You posted something good finally.



We agree on something it seems.

Except have you actually fought those NMs? Without temps the fights turn into death fests. The top tier NM's can basically one shot everyone near them at any point in time, making getting procs impossible without fanatics of fools. Without procs what little chance of loot you do have is going down the drain fast. Go take a long look at those NMs, some can cause weakness, you know the effect that happens when you die, just by hitting you. Some can aoe weakness, aoe death, or just spam death / cheap moves. Pil's flanking movement hits for 1.5 ~ 2.5K which is more HP then your DD's will have. He can put up a barrier that will negate all damage until you proc a weakness, but you can't proc those weakness's because your hitting for 0 and every few seconds all your DD's are killed. And he's one of the easier ones. Some have hate reset, or worse rapid enmity decay which makes them often walk around just one shoting everyone.

If SE made the fights realistic then temps wouldn't be needed, but as is you use them or you die.

[Avelonia]

with 2 separate server merges

Wrong. There was only one in the abyssea era. The first one you're thinking of happened in March of 2010, an update before Visions of Abyssea was released.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I've been reading the forums and i'm honestly in shock at some of you. Okay, here's a simple question, can someone, show me cold hard evidence ABYSSEA REVIVED FFXI? Because for me personally, me and my entire endgame ls QUIT BECAUSE of abyssea. Most of my friends quit for good and have yet to return.You're missing one major point though. I don't know if it was just over your head or not, but abyssea, was never end game.

[Tamoa]

Well that sucks for you aswell but this wasn't the case for everyone.

Didn't have to be the case for me either if I was willing to stay up and do stuff like dynamis at 3am my time. Which I wasn't, I'm one of those people who actually need to sleep. Flion has a point, it was kinda tough to be EU and doing endgame back @ 75 cap. But of course, seeing as you probably aren't EU that's irrelevant to you.

[wish12oz]

im from the uk aswell and my old linkshell on quetz kazoku got everyone geared in a very small period of time.



All I read in the OP is:
I played FFXI in a botting HNMLS and was able to dominate the server because we used bots to claim everything and drive everyone else away. When this aspect of being able to win everything always and be the best was taken away from my LS, we got mad because we had to actually learn how to play and learn how to do the new content. And our LS was actually really bad and couldn't hack it, so they all quit.

I say these things from experience btw, I was in an LS like that before abyssea came out, and 90% of them quit too. It was because they were terrible and could no longer be the best because their bots couldn't dominate everyone else.

It's funny how I make fun of a terrible botter LS no one liked that fell to crap after abyssea came out because they sucked, and then someone shows up and says the LS was awesome and geared everyone. Kazoku geared the leaders and only the leaders, then fell into ruin after Tony realized he couldn't do the new stuff (abyssea) with the LS and RMT'd his account.

Funny stories about Kazoku I remember: Floater saying he wouldnt farm abyssea with LS cause he would have to lot PLD necklace against scrub PLDs, but he couldn't hold hate for anything on his super well geared PLD anyway so it was weird seeing him make fun of other PLDs because he was horrible at it.

Seeing them tanking Carabosse at 90 with 2 PLDs while DDs ran to WS then ran away.

Hearing about how they basically zombie'd the RR ironclad and were unable to proc it the first time they fought it, and deaggroing it the second time they fought it after proccing, then not proccing again and still not getting the atma.

Watching them wipe to chukwa at 90 with PLD tanks.

And my favorite thing about Kazoku, was listening to them emo rage when I would show up on DD jobs to tank fafnir, then make fun of them for being bad when they talked about wing spam.

[Flionheart]

on more than one occasion I had to set up a RL alarm to get out to an event. 24 hour kings were ridiculous like that.

Dyna was such a long event too, especially when you start it at 3am.

http://memegenerator.net/cache/instances/400x/12/12296/12591701.jpg

[newmonkey]

It's funny how I make fun of a terrible botter LS no one liked that fell to crap after abyssea came out because they sucked, and then someone shows up and says the LS was awesome and geared everyone. Kazoku geared the leaders and only the leaders, then fell into ruin after Tony realized he couldn't do the new stuff (abyssea) with the LS and RMT'd his account.

I guess you joined after the merge when Tony got together with Bijuu and the ls went to shit, i agree it was terrible then i left before than and i don't remember you been in it, so what you say above might be true but it was a good ls before the stupid server merge and Tony meeting Bijuu. Fact!

[Haruka-Ash]

They come, they join, get 99 (or 95 is last LB is QQ too hard!), get the gear they want, get bored, quit.

For those returning: Don't bother, quit after the first day back.

thats what i will do if i ever get unsuspended get my charis tiara+1 then maybe get 99 on my jobs and thats it will take me 1 day to do all those things XD

[Benihana]

Look i'm not a hater and i ain't even mad.

I like old school xi and i'm enjoying the game again. Why is this a problem? I like the team effort game thing we had going, and i liked the fact getting a salvage set took a lot of effort. I liked the fact my relic took 2.5 years to get. I enjoyed every minute of everyday farming and doing those events. I had fun and I played while managing my marriage, my school work and training.

There were things i cidnd't have time for, but for the things i DID, i had a lot of fun.

Why does everyone think cause an HNM exists that takes forever to pop and has a rare drop, that xxx player is entitled to it?

Or tat xx event should have xx level of difficulty?

Now, I geared my character to have some of the best (aside from hnm abjys which i got from odin) so maybe I don't have room to talk. But honestly.. I loved salvage, loved einherjar, loved some HNM... some.. I liked te old endgame and i enjoy steady progress.

I'm not enetitled to jack sh*t. I didn't have everything and i didn't care. I had and strived for items i wanted.

I really hope SE continues to go in this direction for the simple fact i think the player bases attitude is a poor one. YOU are not ENTITLED to gear... And events shouldnt be made to appeal to any one type of player. A variety of events should be the normal.

I say this as someone who doesn't have all the time in the world and who can't and won't even attempt a lv.99 relic. Do I think a lv.99 relic should be INCREDIBLY TIME CONSUMING and difficult? HELL yes.. its the best. It's beyond my reach and im okay with that.. why aren't you? Its a single class of items...

You want the best and you want it to be easy enough for you. Well I do not support that and i truly hope SE sticks it to all the abyssea-whining-crying people and makes more events that aim towards, team work, dedication, time and effort.

As I said, I'm having fun and as long as the current ffxi doesn't change too much, I will be playing.

500 pws is ridiculous but also keep in mind, and i mean this sincerely.. if i had the time, and desperatelywanted it, and it was gamebreaking.. I would slowly start moving owards it in my group. I honestly wouldn't complain. I've never emailed SE, bitched at SE (aside from when abyssea came out) about anything in game. I'm one of those players who just deals with it or quits and moves on.

I hope you guys do get the trial changed, but if it doesnt change.. so what man? I mean, if you can't or don't want to do it, why do you care?

Maybe my attitude is unrealistic, but I find the attitude of so many of the posters on here really silly and I am really happy the devs don't listen.

Continue to take XI back in the direction it was, while adding more casual friendly events. Please turn ffxi endgame back into the more traditional XI mode and thx!

I can't wait for salvage 2.0 and einherjar 2.0!!!! /excited!

[Flionheart]

The vocal community is the smallest. Ostracise all the casual players and you'll have a very dead game on your hands.

There can be a good mix, end game doesn't have to be black or white, there can and should be events to suit all players and groups. Big, small, casual or hardcore.

[Tamoa]

I like old school xi and i'm enjoying the game again. Why is this a problem?

It's not a problem though.

Why is it a problem for you that a LOT of people are unhappy with SE taking a step (or more) back towards how things used to be?

[wish12oz]

Now, I geared my character to have some of the best (aside from hnm abjs which i got from odin) so maybe I don't have room to talk. But honestly.. I loved salvage, loved einherjar, loved some HNM... some.. I liked te old endgame and i enjoy steady progress.

So, not only did you not participate in the 'main' endgame event at 75, which IS camping HNMs like fafhogg, behemoth, tiamat, ixion, etc, you think you're entitled to talk about how it was better compared to abyssea, which you admittedly also didn't do. What exactly are you basing your opinions on? What you heard from a friend of a friend?

But hey, since you like steady progress, and events requiring help from others and working together well, you'll love gearing out in abyssea with your friends, it's all of those things. But you'll hate voidwatch with a passion, since it doesn't have any sort of steady progress involved, you just spam one NM and pray.

[Benihana]

It's not a problem though.

Why is it a problem for you that a LOT of people are unhappy with SE taking a step (or more) back towards how things used to be?

Oh tomoassin... I'm so sorry your ukon got nerfed.

You will deal with it though. Aint nothin changin it gurl.

I aint even made sweety. All I was asking was for evidence abyssea revived XI.. doesn't seem like anyone can give me any though so.. I guess that's that.

I don't have a problem with people voicing their concerns, but even someone as vapid as you can surely look over the forums and tell people are personally attacking se staff and posting pics with photoshop.

But carry on. U will anyway. I guess some people never learn that type of behavior doesn't get responses. Oh well.

[Sparthos]

Someone explain to me how a point system doesn't capture casual progress and the hardcore grind element that the hardcore community wants? Everyone 'works' to get their drops and how much you work is determined by how far up the point totem you want to climb.

Hardcore play doesn't have to be HNMs that pop within 7hr windows.

[Benihana]

So, not only did you not participate in the 'main' endgame event at 75, which IS camping HNMs like fafhogg, behemoth, tiamat, ixion, etc, you think you're entitled to talk about how it was better compared to abyssea, which you admittedly also didn't do. What exactly are you basing your opinions on? What you heard from a friend of a friend?

But hey, since you like steady progress, and events requiring help from others and working together well, you'll love gearing out in abyssea with your friends, it's all of those things. But you'll hate voidwatch with a passion, since it doesn't have any sort of steady progress involved, you just spam one NM and pray.

How was hnm the main endgame at 75?> I totally disagree but I don't care tbh! It wasn't my main endgame... Salvage and einherjar sup.

I hope you find more pleasurable fun xi in the future!

Keep your fingers crossed for a good update^______________^

[Sparthos]

Salvage, Einherjar - both sidegrades and sidesteps to the fact that HNMs dominated endgame.

[Benihana]

Salvage, Einherjar - both sidegrades and sidesteps to the fact that HNMs dominated endgame.

Whatevs, HNM are Obsolete and theres no new ones atm. I ain't thinkin about stuff that might happen. If people want to complain about a trial, that's fine but it's really just about people who are afraid that the game is turning back into what it was.

That trial is not going to stay at 500 pw, come on. It might be 100 or even 50 or something else. This isn't about the trial, which people should know isn't even in the game yet. Not to mention we don't know if the drops come from other znms as well. People need to chill, and provide consistent, rational feedback.

I don't think anyone has to worry about endgame being a complete knockoff of what it was. Thy don't have the manpower to do that anyway. Cause voidwatch loot system isn't perfect, and the test server has a ridiculous trial that hasn't been implemented in the real game yet, people are going nuts.

[Zaknafein]

I'd much prefer new SW/DI style HNM's vs another magian trial on crack like what has been proposed for relics/mythics.

[Flionheart]

Oh tomoassin... I'm so sorry your ukon got nerfed.

You will deal with it though. Aint nothin changin it gurl.

I aint even made sweety. All I was asking was for evidence abyssea revived XI.. doesn't seem like anyone can give me any though so.. I guess that's that.

I don't have a problem with people voicing their concerns, but even someone as vapid as you can surely look over the forums and tell people are personally attacking se staff and posting pics with photoshop.

But carry on. U will anyway. I guess some people never learn that type of behavior doesn't get responses. Oh well.




No one's pointed out the evidentiary fallacy yet?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

OP is just a giant ball of retard and rage.

This has been covered.

[Sparthos]

I'd much prefer new SW/DI style HNM's vs another magian trial on crack like what has been proposed for relics/mythics.

You want a 6hour window NM with not-100% drops that also has a chance to not spawn at all or glitch out?

Have you put in a resume to the opening at Guantanamo Bay?

[Neisan_Quetz]

Ohshit, CC about to get DI, quick scare it to the next zone!

[Sparthos]

Ohshit, CC about to get DI, quick scare it to the next zone!

ITS IN WSARU.
Omw.
*Campaign music starts*
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF.
GET BACK TO TOWN.
*time passes*
IM ABOUT TO CLAIM GUYS
WHAT THE FUCK THIS GUY JUST WALKED INTO IT TO CLAIM A GOB
FUCK
FUCK

[Benihana]

HILARIOUS drama was had at the hands of that notorious monster.

So much entertainment. Like dark ixion is significant or deep. So much lol.

[Helel]

Salvage, Einherjar - both sidegrades and sidesteps to the fact that HNMs dominated endgame.

Salvage gear was a sidegrade to HNMs...? Are you serious? Salvage destroyed HNM gear. In fact, it pretty much destroyed every other piece of gear in the game at the time.

Abyssea empyrean armor pretty much destroyed all previous gear choices.

Now we've got VW armor, which actually falls quite short relative to the eras of abyssea and salvage. Some of it is amazing, but VW gear by no means replaces all previous gear.

Nyzul is upcoming, and based on the +5 (?) versions, it might usher in a new era of gear destruction.

[Sparthos]

Salvage didn't destroy Ebody, didn't destroy Nhead, didn't destroy Nlegs, didn't destroy Ridill, didn't destroy DRing and certainly didn't destroy Black Belt.

It was a sidestep with some marginal upgrades depending on the slot. The hoops for entry were set far higher than afk in a zone when the window was open and while yes certain pieces of Kings gear was destroyed the event never put Kings in a coffin.

[scaevola]

the evidence is that this game became fun

people who need to have it explained why abyssea is more fun than kings should send me their resumes, so i can use them to improve my stock portfolio by reinforcing their belief that misery builds character

[Nynja]

No. No one can. Also, people should stop mentioning that 500 PW garbage already. It's getting old.

No, the playerbase is getting old and doesnt have 12 hours a day 7 days a week to devote to the game, were not 17-20 year olds in highschool/college.

[wish12oz]

Salvage gear was a sidegrade to HNMs...? Are you serious? Salvage destroyed HNM gear. In fact, it pretty much destroyed every other piece of gear in the game at the time.

uuhhhhhh........... no.
Exactly which piece of salvage gear was so amazing it destroyed HNM gear? I'm trying to think of one, but I can't even come up with ONE.

Maybe we should classify what the good HNM gear was to make this easier.
Adaman Hauberk. - beats the crap out of ares body or skadi body for tp or ws
Heca legs - beats the crap out of skadi or ares legs for ws unless your talking about drg or war, and you could cap ddex with ares legs and had high attack, so ya, ares legs = sidegrade
Heca cap - beats skadi or ares mask for ws
Dalmatica - was an idle piece, - morigans doesnt have 2mp/tick, and dalmatica had +50mp and +mdb, so it was actually better to idle in.
Crimson body - 10 or 11 stats on RDM is better for casting enfeebs then 8 stats
Ridill - salvage didnt have weapons
D ring - salvage didnt have rings
Black Belt - salvage didn't have belts
Pixie Earring - salvage didn't have earrings

This is all I can think of....

[Greatguardian]

uuhhhhhh........... no.
Exactly which piece of salvage gear was so amazing it destroyed HNM gear? I'm trying to think of one, but I can't even come up with ONE.

^.

Most of the best Salvage gear did not have an HNM equivalent. The only HNM item that really got replaced was Dalmatica. Usukane was boss, but HNM didn't offer Mnk/Nin/Sam/Pup anything anyways.

[Glacont]

No, the playerbase is getting old and doesnt have 12 hours a day 7 days a week to devote to the game, were not 17-20 year olds in highschool/college.

For most Gamers this is True. We've grown up along side FF11

[wish12oz]

^.

Most of the best Salvage gear did not have an HNM equivalent. The only HNM item that really got replaced was Dalmatica. Usukane was boss, but HNM didn't offer Mnk/Nin/Sam/Pup anything anyways.

Dalmatica was the superior idle piece IMO, it had +50mp

[Greatguardian]

Dalmatica was the superior idle piece IMO, it had +50mp

But it doesn't look as fancy so there.

Then again, I'm told a lot of people hated how Morri robe looked. Weird.

[Catsby]

For most Gamers this is True. We've grown up along side FF11

FF11 has be regressing lately though. The only way I can see somebody getting through the higher level ToM "content" is if they are unemployed or living off somebody else's paycheck.

[Kimble]

Dalmatica was the superior idle piece IMO, it had +50mp

Not really, because even if it had 50 MP, once you changed out of idle gear, you lose that 50 mp so it does nothing for you. Unless you get full MP before you cast Shell or Protect.

[Glacont]

You'll get no argument from Me, Catsby. We're on the same side.

[Kiroh]

This has got to be the funniest troll thread in history.

"Wai ppl think changing game be gud? U all know everything shuld have stayed the same, would have saved the game!"

And then people actually took this person seriously and started debating why a stagnating game with little to no new content besides side-grades for 6 years is, in fact, a bad thing for the long-term health of the game's population.

It's like someone using the bible to debate the big bang theory, hilarious. xD

[solidous]

Abyssea is the most fun I have ever had in this game, and I have played since NA release. I enjoy VW as well if only they fix the loot system. With the current loot system is nearly impossible to make a VW LS, I havent found one in my server. Heavy Metal plates are not enough incentive to do it religiously. The point is while i do miss big ls events, I dont miss the BS(hnms,old dynamis).

[cidbahamut]

Not really, because even if it had 50 MP, once you changed out of idle gear, you lose that 50 mp so it does nothing for you. Unless you get full MP before you cast Shell or Protect.

I'd think the MDB on it would be a pretty compelling reason to idle in it over Morrigan's, if only for those rare occasions when you're hit by a stray AoE or something and aren't quick on the draw with your MDT macro.

Also: staggering MP gear for max returns.

[Neisan_Quetz]

At the same time though, it reduced your max hp, and I think it was shown usually MDB+5 was worse than the hp loss for taking stray hits.

Of course this is assuming 1-2 stray hits, after that you woould have switched sets anyway.

[cidbahamut]

At the same time though, it reduced your max hp, and I think it was shown usually MDB+5 was worse than the hp loss for taking stray hits.

Of course this is assuming 1-2 stray hits, after that you woould have switched sets anyway.
I hadn't considered that. Huh...

[Arcon]

So much missed from a few hours of sleep..


I don't think most people actually knew how widespread botting was at the end, due to the devs being unable to counter it.

Apparently you do, so tell me. How widespread have bots been? Because I only remember them being used for HNM, fishing and HELM. And they're still used for the latter two, or at least fishing, because HELM is hardly worth it anymore. And the first part never bothered 99% of the FFXI population, because they weren't doing HNM. I'd say the average Joe didn't notice much in terms of botting improvement on FFXI. Hell, the average Joe thinks Windower is a bot.


The OP has anecdotal evidence - my own experience is anecdotal evidence - but I can say, I saw a lot of "I've heard the game is less soul destroying now so I want to come back" threads on the Zam while abyssea was in full swing - while I haven't seen one yet saying "I heard the game is returning to a soul destroying grind so I am coming back" threads on the same forum.

Oh? Because I do hear those people, people that are now interested again when not everything is as easy as Abyssea was. One such thread is this one, ill-advised as it was.


Hypocrite statement.... so you like "barance" challenging unreasonable trials yet you are not even attempt to do it at all but want this to be implemented so "other people but yourself" can go through the ordeal???

You don't know what hypocrisy means. I can praise and appreciate a guy running a marathon without running it myself (sometimes even because of it). Also, you can't read, because they never said they wanted it implemented.


If SE made the fights realistic then temps wouldn't be needed, but as is you use them or you die.

I agree, that's part of the problem. I've been saying it ever since Abyssea came out, SE seems to want us to counter artificial difficulty with artificial boosts. The problem with all this artificial game design is that it takes skill out of the equation. As long as you can stagger a mob you can spam items and pretty much guarantee a win. And staggering is not an aspect on which I'd want my skill to focus on in this game.

This is one thing that bothers me about Abyssea as well. Remember all those Pchan posts claiming "MDT gear is for losers, WS gear is for losers, since you can kill anything in a few seconds anyway"? Well, while I disagree with him (I feel I have to to retain my sanity) he does have a point: you really don't need anything anymore. The reason I loved the sidegrades back in the day was because every inch I could squeeze out of my character would improve it. Sure, one item wouldn't make a difference, but if I worked on several sets over the course of months I would eventually get a noticeable edge over what I had before. Nowadays, however, even with ridiculously overpowered gear compared to the next guy, even if the difference is actually noticeable, it doesn't mean anything anymore. You get maybe a minute faster kills if you invite an Ukon WAR over a normal WAR or any other DD. It doesn't "contribute", it doesn't make things smoother or easier, it just makes them faster.


Salvage, Einherjar - both sidegrades and sidesteps to the fact that HNMs dominated endgame.

That's quite the ignorant thing to say. What defines endgame to you? The event that least people do? The event that gives least progress? The event that suffers from the most competition? There isn't one event that was endgame. Everything you did at 75 was endgame. Even meriting was an art - fast and easy with skilled and geared people, horrible with noobs. I already said the only notable drops from kings were Defending Ring and Ridill, the only notable rare/ex drops from other HNM may include Hauteclaire, but that's about it. Are you saying those three items are what made endgame?

I already said why HNMLS did HNMs, because of the money. That's it. That's why 99% of the population never even thought of doing them. If that's all you consider endgame, then you are in the vanishingly small minority.



All I was asking was for evidence abyssea revived XI..


Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

This has been covered.

Not really. While it's not false that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, it's still an indication. The fact is, though, that there is no proof unless SE releases a census with the actual numbers. Everyone saying that Abyssea revived the game are just going by their own experience, and some people obviously have a different experience, otherwise there would be no arguing.


You want a 6hour window NM with not-100% drops that also has a chance to not spawn at all or glitch out?

Have you put in a resume to the opening at Guantanamo Bay?

Again with your superior opinion. You just love pointing out why other people's idea of fun is stupid, don't you? The fact is, there is no argument against it. There are people who love it. Stop being sarcastic to them just for voicing their opinion. Or is their presence that threatening to your point of view?


the evidence is that this game became fun

No idea what evidence means. Also, no idea what fun means.

From what I've read in the first few pages, the only problem people suffered from old FFXI was being stuck in a retarded linkshell. That sums up literally every legitimate complaint I've read so far. And don't get me wrong, that actually constitutes a legitimate complaint itself, and I admit that I probably had it pretty good in that regard. However, it's debatable whether or not that's a complaint against a game or against the community in it. All I hear is "leaders only getting gear for themselves", "slaving people to come to Faf or lose points", "force you to do this and that", "not being rewarded for what I do", etc. Now some will argue that this is a game which enforces such behaviour, but that's also bullshit, evidenced by the fact that it wasn't like this to everyone. You could have done something against it. You did have a handful of friends right? Team up with them and make a social LS, problem solved. Don't force people to show up, count on the fact that they will show up, because they'll help LS friends and they'll get a shot at obtaining better gear themselves. Hell it didn't even have to be newbs, judging by the amount of complaining I'm seeing in here you could have found lots of like-minded and experienced players as well.

But you probably even knew that back then. You must have known there was a better way, because obviously you weren't happy. So why did you still choose to run with asshat linkshells like that? Because social LS would have been to slow, because you wanted the best for your character as soon as possible. You wanted gear, money and fame? You went with HNMLS. It was just greed that kept you from actually having fun in the game you play. Yet those people now come in and say people are retarded for actually enjoying that content? I'm retarded because I actually enjoyed kings and world spawns and did them because it was fun? But you're the smart one, because you put up with frustration and humiliation for years, just to get what you wanted?

Literally, the only problem I'm seeing people mentioning over and over is how fucked up HNMs were. Is that really your only complaint? If so, then you agree with Sparthos above that HNMs dominated endgame. And if you do, you really don't have anyone at all to blame but yourself, because you clearly ignored everything else this game had to offer (which was pretty much everything).

[SolidSnake]

LOL really boting vnms in abys, i guess someone didn't get the memo that the mobs appear on the server side now lol. And yes abys did get rid of a lot of bots, i mean what's there to bot in abys lol. Guk?, last i checked they fixed that by letting u get his KI thru boxes. Having diff people in your shell waiting in a different zone; camping the death spot of a mob just to see when it pops? Yup they did away with that. Fish bots... who needs fish bots gil comes by easy lol.

So in short yeah there's nothing to bot anymore inside abys or in game. Well except for those silly whm's that keep us alive inside abys.

[Atomic_Skull]

lol the more I think about old FFXI the more I'm amazed we stuck with it, HNMLS leaders keeping tabs on me, complaints if you weren't at events, points.., backstabbing to get loting rights over others, bot domination, timetables, horrible drop rates..god old FFXI was brutal.

Sounds like EVE online. EVE is extremely brutal to the point of allowing it's players to do literally anything. Lie cheat steal PK each other etc. Any form of griefing is allowed and the developers refuse to interfere with player behavior in any way. There are literally no rules and anything goes. Anyone can attack and kill anyone else and steal their stuff without restriction. And yet EVE is the only MMO in the industry where the number of subscribers has increased every year.

[Insaniac]

You want proof? Your silly post got 4 likes. Any post about Tanaka or how bad VW drop rates suck or how it's a dick move to nerf a WS after a year of people obtaining a weapon to use it get 20 to 50. Or go look at the JP forums. Close to 200 likes on angry posts about nerfs and crappy WSs and crappy VW drop rates. These forums are a cross section of the games population and the majority opinion here can be assumed to be that of the rest of the population. Abyssea era FFXI is almost universally liked more than disliked even if it wasn't perfect. Tanaka era 2.0 is full of rage, death threats, and general displeasure.

[Runespider]

Apparently you do, so tell me. How widespread have bots been? Because I only remember them being used for HNM, fishing and HELM. And they're still used for the latter two, or at least fishing, because HELM is hardly worth it anymore. And the first part never bothered 99% of the FFXI population, because they weren't doing HNM. I'd say the average Joe didn't notice much in terms of botting improvement on FFXI. Hell, the average Joe thinks Windower is a bot.

Old FFXI, HNM (claim bots, spawn notification LS bots, scan bots/flee bots to know when DI/SW popped, in which zone and get to it first), Salvage (flee bots, stuff to see which mobs dropped which cells), fishing (this was the best form of making gil in the game, while asleep or at work on multiple mules). The main thing with bots/apps was that Square showed they were unable to counter them and botters were winning big time (on claim or go home content), they used to be seen as cheating but since they became "you're a dumbass wasting hours at HNM and not botting" their use became common practice and acceptance followed. When content encourages cheating and changes the mindset of the endgame community you know something is wrong with the content.

The only thing people do now is use cure bots in XP alliances and use flee bots to outrun TP moves etc, fish botting isn't a big deal anymore because gil is easy to make. So yeah cheating has pretty much been destroyed where it used to be very important and a major part of the game, if you were a good botter you could get into any endgame LS and get gear ahead of pretty much anyone (didn't have to be a good player, just good with 3rd party apps).

[Arcon]

Old FFXI, HNM (claim bots, spawn notification LS bots, scan bots/flee bots to know when DI/SW popped, in which zone and get to it first), Salvage (flee bots, stuff to see which mobs dropped which cells), fishing (this was the best form of making gil in the game, while asleep or at work on multiple mules).

Flee bots in Salvage? I guess, if you needed it. I've heard of plenty of bots and been in many different Salvage groups, both endgame and noob parties, and have never seen one myself. But true, fleebots were there, technically (as they are now, worse than ever before).

"Stuff to see which mob dropped which cells"? They were called charts. You could make them on paper.

So yeah, all you said was confirmed what I said. Bots were used for HNMs, fishing and fleehacks. Fishing is still around, so are fleehacks/poshacks, according to player reports worse than ever. So effectively, it only eliminated bots from HNMs, and it did that by eliminating HNMs. And even that only affected a very minor part of the population. In fact, I'd like to say that, while minor in its effect, the Guku/Tunga claimwars affected more people than HNM ever did.


When content encourages cheating and changes the mindset of the endgame community you know something is wrong with the content.

While that depends on your definition of content, it's still a retarded approach. So just for a second think about someone who enjoys HNMs. Are you saying that he won't, ever, be able to enjoy that in any game, ever? That's "wrong" content and he shouldn't be wanting it? It may be a bit much to ask, but I'd rather improve anti-botting mechanisms (it is possible) than purge said content from the game entirely.


The only thing people do now is use cure bots in XP alliances and use flee bots to outrun TP moves etc, fish botting isn't a big deal anymore because gil is easy to make. So yeah cheating has pretty much been destroyed where it used to be very important and a major part of the game, if you were a good botter you could get into any endgame LS and get gear ahead of pretty much anyone (didn't have to be a good player, just good with 3rd party apps).

Fish botting is present wherever you look these days. Your argument is retarded. "Gil is easy to make so no one will bot anymore" get out. Gil is easier to make with bots. Why waste your time making gil when bots can do it for you overnight?

Curing in EXP alliances? Flee to evade TP moves? So you're saying that right now there's bots being used in content that's done by absolutely everyone? Yet, for some mysterious reason, you call cheating "destroyed", compared to before when it was a "major part of the game", a part that was hardly done by anyone in the first place? In what universe does that make sense?

[Alkimi]

What the hell does that have to do with endgame as it used to be back at 75 cap?

I'm with Flion, I'm EU aswell and being EU and trying to do endgame successfully pre-abyssea was hard. Your average EU shell couldn't kill squat, which is why I never got to do Einherjar until late 2009 when I joined an endgame shell that actually tried to do events at a time that their EU members could attend. But those shells were few and far between, at least the successful ones.

As one of those few and far between EU shells we only camped HNM when they fell in our time zone and our linkshell was more aimed at event based content like Einherjar/Dynamis/Sky/Sea. We did get claims despite not using bots and killed far quicker than the trash shells that were around at the time, however we eventually quit the whole HNM scene about 6 months before the 80 cap.

We're probably one of the very few big linkshells that wasn't destroyed by abyssea but it was a struggle organizing an alliance for events that were more catered to lowman groups. Eventually around 8 months ago we took the decision to stop abyssea as a linkshell event and concentrate on content that was more suited to our size.

[Runespider]

Your post is just arguing for the sake of arguing, as per usual.


"Stuff to see which mob dropped which cells"? They were called charts. You could make them on paper.

Did you ever do salvage or what? In some areas there were 4 mobs, 2 of which dropped cells and 2 which dropped nothing (time wasters) people downloaded stuff to know which did and which did not drop anything so they would only kill those. The flee hacks were also quite widely used by the "port up" players and used more widely by the successfull groups in statics.

Regardless the truth is that for endgamers botting was a major issue and source of much anger before Abyssea and now it's not. Abyssea ushered in the total change to the entire game and one of those was the removal of cheating as the major issue, yet another thing it's awesome for.


Except have you actually fought those NMs? Without temps the fights turn into death fests. The top tier NM's can basically one shot everyone near them at any point in time, making getting procs impossible without fanatics of fools. Without procs what little chance of loot you do have is going down the drain fast. Go take a long look at those NMs, some can cause weakness, you know the effect that happens when you die, just by hitting you. Some can aoe weakness, aoe death, or just spam death / cheap moves. Pil's flanking movement hits for 1.5 ~ 2.5K which is more HP then your DD's will have. He can put up a barrier that will negate all damage until you proc a weakness, but you can't proc those weakness's because your hitting for 0 and every few seconds all your DD's are killed. And he's one of the easier ones. Some have hate reset, or worse rapid enmity decay which makes them often walk around just one shoting everyone.

If SE made the fights realistic then temps wouldn't be needed, but as is you use them or you die.

Yeah I was more agreeing with the that the event itself was good but ruined by bad loot systems. The harder fights are almost impossible without using temps/staggers (in the time limit with how much hp they have), people will run out of MP and the DD will get one shotted..they upscaled the damage from AoE etc due to temps.

[wish12oz]

You want proof? Your silly post got 4 likes. Any post about Tanaka or how bad VW drop rates suck or how it's a dick move to nerf a WS after a year of people obtaining a weapon to use it get 20 to 50. Or go look at the JP forums. Close to 200 likes on angry posts about nerfs and crappy WSs and crappy VW drop rates. These forums are a cross section of the games population and the majority opinion here can be assumed to be that of the rest of the population.

This was such a good statement.

[Tamoa]

As one of those few and far between EU shells we only camped HNM when they fell in our time zone and our linkshell was more aimed at event based content like Einherjar/Dynamis/Sky/Sea. We did get claims despite not using bots and killed far quicker than the trash shells that were around at the time, however we eventually quit the whole HNM scene about 6 months before the 80 cap.

We're probably one of the very few big linkshells that wasn't destroyed by abyssea but it was a struggle organizing an alliance for events that were more catered to lowman groups. Eventually around 8 months ago we took the decision to stop abyssea as a linkshell event and concentrate on content that was more suited to our size.

Yeah your ls is one of the few and far between ones that's EU and that's been successful. My original server was Alexander and there were no EU endgame shells there, at least none that were remotely successful. There were EU dynamis linkshells, and EU limbus linkshells, but no proper all-in-one EU shells.

So I ended up in a mainly NA hnmls, which did dynamis and other events (successfully) while I was asleep. I tried to stick around in my dynamis shell, but it wasn't always easy.

[Arcon]

Did you ever do salvage or what? In some areas there were 4 mobs, 2 of which dropped cells and 2 which dropped nothing (time wasters) people downloaded stuff to know which did and which did not drop anything so they would only kill those. The flee hacks were also quite widely used by the "port up" players and used more widely by the successfull groups in statics.

The only way to know if that was possible would be if the drop pools are ID based. I actually don't know if that was the case, if it was then yes, cheating would be helpful in Salvage too. Although there's a major difference, which I'll get to in the next paragraph.


Regardless the truth is that for endgamers botting was a major issue and source of much anger before Abyssea and now it's not. Abyssea ushered in the total change to the entire game and one of those was the removal of cheating as the major issue, yet another thing it's awesome for.

That's what I meant before, stating your opinion as a truth. That's your opinion of someone who's been in a HNMLS. But guess what, even if people botted Salvage, that's an entirely different animal than claimbotting HNM. Botting in the HNM setting was competitive, meaning that if one person was botting, other people were at an disadvantage. The same goes for HELM. In Salvage, or any other part of FFXI really, the setting is cooperative instead of competitive. Meaning if someone cheats for an advantage, it benefits the entire group. I seriously doubt that if anyone was botting in a Salvage group that their party members minded very much for less kills and easier wins. It doesn't make it better, but I find your claim that it caused "much anger" pretty groundless. That's like people in Salvage dupe groups grieving about the abundance of drops.

Let me break down your claims. I'll leave fleehacks/fishing out, since that's applicable now as well.

Before Abyssea, botting was used for:
- HNMs (competitive)
- Salvage (cooperative)

Now:
- EXP parties/alliances (cooperative)
- Voidwatch fights (cooperative)

So now it's better because it's still all around, but it's helping people? Aside from the fact that HNMs were not common content and it affected very few people, and in all my Salvage runs I've never seen anyone botting (or have a need for it, for that matter). The only kind of botting Abyssea abolished was the HNM claimbotting one, and again, it didn't "fix" it per se, it just abolished HNM altogether. I agree that it's better in the sense that it eliminated competition, I still don't agree by how they did it. By that reasoning you could just remove every content that people have an issue with (which would be pretty much every content).

[scaevola]

No idea what evidence means. Also, no idea what fun means.


lollin

i had fun in abyssea. everyone i know had fun in abyssea. we do not need more compelling evidence than this.

the OP is overthinking something that cannot be overthought, realizes he is doing it, and is seeking to draw people who like abyssea (because they had fun in it, you see) into confirming his opinions rather than accept the error lies with him and his perception of how best to approach a leisure activity from which nothing can really be gained

for the record, i recognized the sucker's bet of HNMs for what they were and never took part. 5% haste from byakko's haidate could never be worth dealing with the stunted, hateful people along the way to getting them. i went to salvage like twice, climbed Nyzul for a bit and did some assaults, but i am proud to say when synthetic atmas came out the only ones available to me were Banisher and whatever the one for Bastok Rank 10 was. i played ffxi to kick back, relax, make some money and maybe level some jobs, and generally waste time and listen to audiobooks; when i actually felt like pushing myself in a video game i chose to waste my time in games that actually rewarded me for being able to play them well (season 3 duelist in BG7, baby) rather than those that might reward me for dedication rather than skill

[Benihana]

My post wasn't intended to attack, and I don't appreciate being attacked. I personally think this boards perception of things is borderline "delusional". Am I saying someone everyone is wrong and i'm so right? No, but the fact is, the ffxi playerbase is higher than it was a few months ago. Care to explain that then? I don't see mass quitting over the magian trials. If they add new hnm, i don't see mass quitting either. If they add new salvage or einherjar, I still don't see mass quitting.

There is too much casual and solo content for people to really care with things that might be time consuming. The game has changed. FFXI back in the day.. everything was a grind.. Now there is so much more variety of casual content. (I said casual content, not content in general....).

All Im saying is, those of you who think that SE making more endgame events ala 2005 or a traditional sense would result in mass quitting, I think that's BS. It's been 2-3 updates with this kinda direction and I still see ALL the same people on here. I mean, if you've disliked the game so much... why are you still playing? I can talk because I actually left during the transition period. I don't want this to become an attack thread.

I don't even pay Runespider/Ravemore/Sparthos attention anymore because ALL their posts are the same and it's been months of it. I don't mean to be mean, but you obviously enjoy something about the game TBH.

I'm one of the people who doesn't care about a trial i'm not gonna do, and i'm one of those people who agrees with the ukko/vs nerf. Do I think other stuff needs to be nerfed as well? Of course. It makes no sense to leave sam and ochain pld with their overpowered stuff but shoha has only been out very short time and you can be sure nerfs are going to come around for the other overpowered stuff after 76+.

Abyssea was more than likely intended to be used as filler content. A lot of stuff has been overlooked and or intended to keep us preoccupied until we are recapped. It's too early to tell what the new endgame will be like. SE has been nerfing and adjusting since the game came out, duh.

We are only just getting recapped, chill out and let them re-adjust the game. If you thought Abyssea was that re-adjustment.. Well, theres PLENTY OF IT still around, but way too early to predict or tell what endgame will be like. Theyre doing toau revamp, surely theyll be doing something with notorious monsters soon. Either adding mass amounts of new ones for force and free. New znms etc.

In short, I think people are overeacting. We just got re-capped. Sheesh. All this over a trial that isn't in game yet and a nerf that was long deserved. VW fights are fun, and yeah i dont understand the loot system but with all the complaining about the ls leaders being stingy etc, I mean, we have to take small victories where we can get them. We don't know why SE won't add a loot or point system and it could be for a variety of reasons, not because they just wanna make it SO HARD for us.

[scaevola]

write 700 words about how abyssea killed the game etc

read one-liners from others about how that is a dumb opinion and you are dumb for having it

write another 300 words about how everybody is totally overreacting

[Benihana]

write 700 words about how abyssea killed the game etc

read one-liners from others about how that is a dumb opinion and you are dumb for having it

write another 300 words about how everybody is totally overreacting

Ugh, some of you are such a pill. It's like you didn't even read. Lol i can't with you. sorry

[Benihana]

"OMG the dev team is making the game soul sucking again! THE GAME IS DOOMED! OMG THEyre NUKING OVERPOWERED WS! how dare they! They are crazy! The game is doomed! OMGGG the game is dying, theyre making adjustments!"

Basically what i've been reading. TBH.

Yeah that's overeacting, especially since the same people are buying crysta next month. I'm sorry if this bit of truth is making people mad, but you will deal with it.

I told my friend in game about all the mass b*tchin on here and she summed it pretty well:

"NOONECURR GWORL"

[scaevola]

so your game is to disguise the fact that you have nothing constructive to say by writing thousand-word posts you know nobody's going to read

well, i guess you're in good company (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Derrida), at least

[Benihana]

so your game is to disguise the fact that you have nothing constructive to say by writing thousand-word posts you know nobody's going to read

well, i guess you're in good company (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Derrida), at least


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c82/Bariyou/Gifs/disney.gif

[Runespider]

Before Abyssea, botting was used for:
- HNMs (competitive)
- Salvage (cooperative)

Now:
- EXP parties/alliances (cooperative)
- Voidwatch fights (cooperative)

So now it's better because it's still all around, but it's helping people? Aside from the fact that HNMs were not common content and it affected very few people, and in all my Salvage runs I've never seen anyone botting (or have a need for it, for that matter). The only kind of botting Abyssea abolished was the HNM claimbotting one, and again, it didn't "fix" it per se, it just abolished HNM altogether. I agree that it's better in the sense that it eliminated competition, I still don't agree by how they did it. By that reasoning you could just remove every content that people have an issue with (which would be pretty much every content).

Botting is not all around now because it's not important at all, it's almost a non-issue these days and you know this. Cure bots are pretty uncommon and um
- Voidwatch fights (cooperative) nothing is botted or cheated in VW that I know of.., I very rarely see scrubs flee bot out of range of TP fights in Aby but not in VW since it's so damn obvious and most VW is PuG and you will get reported. So yeah it's not an issue anytmore while it was a big deal for serious players in the past.

It's cool to argue the toss about stuff but botting being almost a non-issue now compared to what it was is not something that you can argue I'm wrong about. It was an issue for a fairly decent amount of players in the past but it's an issue for almost nobody now.

As for removing competition, best thing they ever did. FFXI never had competition, it had battle of the bots and that's it. You never did it like some of us did so maybe you don't know how retarded it became.

[Greatguardian]

Your post is just arguing for the sake of arguing, as per usual.



Did you ever do salvage or what? In some areas there were 4 mobs, 2 of which dropped cells and 2 which dropped nothing (time wasters) people downloaded stuff to know which did and which did not drop anything so they would only kill those. The flee hacks were also quite widely used by the "port up" players and used more widely by the successfull groups in statics.

Regardless the truth is that for endgamers botting was a major issue and source of much anger before Abyssea and now it's not. Abyssea ushered in the total change to the entire game and one of those was the removal of cheating as the major issue, yet another thing it's awesome for.



Yeah I was more agreeing with the that the event itself was good but ruined by bad loot systems. The harder fights are almost impossible without using temps/staggers (in the time limit with how much hp they have), people will run out of MP and the DD will get one shotted..they upscaled the damage from AoE etc due to temps.

You seem to be confusing what constitutes a bot and what... doesn't.

Identifying special mobs in Salvage was a matter of Dat swaps or Dat adjustments. The monsters had different IDs, so you just adjusted the name of the ones with the ID that dropped shit. This was certainly "cheating", insomuch as people Dat swapping out their game maps for marked maps was "cheating", but it certainly wasn't botting.

Likewise, flee tools aren't bots either. You run faster. That is definitely cheating. But it's not a bot. Those have become more popular as real bots have become less popular. You have posters like Flionheart who have been reported 5 billion times for blatantly free hacking and no one seems to care, so people just do it. If you're using Flee tools to outrun a TP move from melee range, you're probably going at some ridiculously high speed or you may as well just run out of range normally. I only really see this happen when people decide to kite with flee speed up. Cheating, but not a huge deal as far as I'm concerned.

Cheating didn't really decrease, but botting did and that was nice. Botting restricted content based on how much money you were willing to spend on a vidya game. Flee tools... make you get places faster. Dat swaps... make you look cooler and have better maps in-game so you don't have to alt+tab out to check for markers. Neither of these really restrict content.

[Sparthos]

That's quite the ignorant thing to say. What defines endgame to you? The event that least people do? The event that gives least progress? The event that suffers from the most competition? There isn't one event that was endgame. Everything you did at 75 was endgame. Even meriting was an art - fast and easy with skilled and geared people, horrible with noobs. I already said the only notable drops from kings were Defending Ring and Ridill, the only notable rare/ex drops from other HNM may include Hauteclaire, but that's about it. Are you saying those three items are what made endgame?

I already said why HNMLS did HNMs, because of the money. That's it. That's why 99% of the population never even thought of doing them. If that's all you consider endgame, then you are in the vanishingly small minority.

HNM was 'endgame' because it was the most popular event alongside Sky for a very very long time. Both events found themselves never quite reaching obsolescence until well into Abyssea. These were also the two events that most individuals would call 'endgame' when quoted over the years. Casual or Hardcore, both groups knew that this shrouded 'endgame' was a place of debauchery, timesink, betrayal, backstabbing and greed.

It also didn't help that SE literally did their best to keep certain pieces of HNM top in the slot even as new events like Einherjar, Assault, Nyzul Isle, Campaign, ZNM and so forth came out. These events too were endgame but did they beat Black Belt? Ridills? Adaman Hauberk? Hecatomb Cap? lolKoenig Body? Hecatomb Leggings? No. This reluctance to end that content (or duplicate their drops elsewhere) is why the bot wars escalated, why people dropped 2k USD for the most leet bots and why botting became standard at most HNMs.

Oh and I know you're going to bring up Einherjar and I should address that. Einherjar wasn't a replacement to Kings - it was a supplement and a stupid sidestep. In the time it took to build up an Odin, the people cheating probably had enough shots at the world spawn to laugh at your pathetic Odin pool if he happened to even drop what you wanted. Hadean junk instead of a more Nid-like pool? Well that's just too bad, see you in the next cycle... a month from now.

36man content and you have to wait a month for 4 abjurations in a pool. Classic SE, classic Tanaka.


Again with your superior opinion. You just love pointing out why other people's idea of fun is stupid, don't you? The fact is, there is no argument against it. There are people who love it. Stop being sarcastic to them just for voicing their opinion. Or is their presence that threatening to your point of view?

Don't even try to defend Sandworm because it's going to make you look stupid. I know you like to argue but there is no glory in defending one of the worst mobs ever designed within the bounds of FFXI. Forget my 'superior' opinion because Sandworm goes against SEs 'word to the players' you're forced to agree to every time you log in. Dont forget your friends? family? job? Well tell me SE, how's that work out when you've got a mob in the game that takes potentially SIX (read: 1/4 of a day) hours to pop?

The creation of such monsters was frankly irresponsible on SEs part and shouldn't have made it past the theoretical stage. With years of observing the playerbase you'd think they'd realize that people will camp these things and that as a company it'd be best for their image to avoid this level of enabling but did they? Nope, Tanaka greenlit it because Tanaka is Tanaka and this guy thinks an MMO should be like life inside a gulag.

I'm convinced the guy was a prison warden in a previous life.

So let's review Sandworm shall we?

He takes 6hours to pop, has a chance to not pop or despawn quickly after pop, can glitch out due to MMM and not Doomvoid, has no drops of his own, has a chance to not drop anything inside his battlefields and drops 1-2 pieces if you're lucky. This sound like content better than it's predecessor in Kings? This sound reasonable for your average player? This sound like an NM good for company image? This sound like 'fun'?

The only people who would call Sandworm fun were people hopelessly under Tanaka's torture spell. Like I said before, there are better ways to build content that keeps people playing.

[Sayomi]

Some of us feel as though years of slaving over relics/mythics was enough though, the reason why ppl did them in the first place was to have some of the best stuff, we want the final upgrade to be within everyones reach, we all care about our own goals but at the same time we feel compassion for the next guy because we know what he/she went through, esp if he/she has more then one. So what you call whining is actually concerned consumers looking out for their best intrests but at the same time many people can relate and join in. Some of us don't wanna be sub-par or below, your goal in anything whether it be a game or life should not be sub-par.

Final Fantasy XI was all about friendships, and meeting new people while having a great time, why not make trials a bonding experience, not a grinding experience that will lead to much worldwide LS turmoil, drama and many more "player warning" posts, im sick of those days, have we not evolved past the stoneage period of this game? Abyssea was a love-hate thing for me, but what we need honestly is not nerfs we need other jobs boosted, we need to feel like we're 99 not 75+1, we need a new expansion pack with totally new areas not regurgitated old ones, and we need to be able to shoot lasers out of our eyes, thats about it.

[Tamoa]

Some of us feel as though years of slaving over relics/mythics was enough though, the reason why ppl did them in the first place was to have some of the best stuff, we want the final upgrade to be within everyones reach, we all care about our own goals but at the same time we feel compassion for the next guy because we know what he went through, esp if he has more then one. So what you call whining is actually concerned consumers looking out for their best intrests but at the same time many people can relate and join in. Some of us don't wanna be sub-par or below, your goal in anything whether it be a game or life should not be sub-par.

Final Fantasy XI was all about friendships, and meeting new people while having a great time, why not make trials a bonding experience, not a grinding experience that will lead to much worldwide LS turmoil, drama and many more "player warning" posts, im sick of those days, have we not evolved past the stoneage period of this game? Abyssea was a love-hate thing for me, but what we need honestly is not nerfs we need other jobs boosted, we need to feel like we're 99 not 75+1, we need a new expansion pack with totally new areas not regurgitated old ones, and we need to be able to shoot lasers out of our eyes, thats about it.

Amen, well said.

[svengalis]

Hi! Me and wifey recently reactivated our accounts now that 99 is here and endgame seems to be forming.

I've been reading the forums and i'm honestly in shock at some of you. Okay, here's a simple question, can someone, show me cold hard evidence ABYSSEA REVIVED FFXI? Because for me personally, me and my entire endgame ls QUIT BECAUSE of abyssea. Most of my friends quit for good and have yet to return.

So for those of you who keep spamming the board with nonsense, based on what seems to be YOUR personal experience, can you show me player data that supports it?

Because I have some! If you have been checking the active players list throughout the last year and a half since abyssea, you would notice it has gone UP these past few MONTHS. As in since the game has moved away from it.

That to me would suggest that the game isn't in anymore danger than it was when abyssea was the end and be all of endgame. Now, I'm not going to be a hypocrit and start spewing bs, saying I can prove that abyssea killed the game, but some of you are just down right delusional if you think abyssea helped ffxi.

Massive amounts of people quit when abyssea was released and supported. I very much doubt the league of people who came back to a more casual ffxi made up for the amount that quit, and even if they did, with 2 separate server merges and the active player list data MISSING from the ffxi consensus (which has been there every year for many years, coincidence, lol i think not)

Even if it did make up for those that quit, you have to remember, these are very casual players. Very casual players are much more unlikely to support a game long term. With ffxi's lifespan and current dev. team, do you really think SE has the resources to keep shelling out content so paper thin, so casuals will be satisfied? I think that would take more effort than giving endgame a more traditional ffxi endgame, which required team work and time to get the ultimate gear. It would probably take up less resources and keep people playing longer.

Now, I'm married and have a job etc, and I don't have the time to do oldschool endgame like I used to, but I do still enjoy that content and i will do what i can and focus on the things I personally enjoy.

Do i think 500 pw is reasonable? No, but I also could appreciate the journey in reaching for my goals in game. WHEN WAS ENDGAME EVER REASONABLE? from HNMs and salvage to abyssea, the time-effort ratio was either on one side, or the complete opposite. Abyssea was the 180 of salvage/hnms etc. That wasn't reasonable either, so that argument isn't valid. It boils down to what type of player you are. I prefer long term endgame goals with steady progress. I feel more accomplished and it keeps the game active and fun for me.

Now if I simply cant devote the time to such a goal, I don't do it. People need to stop bitching and complaining about stuff THEY PERSONALLY can't do and have no interest in.

Runspider/Ravenmore - You don't like the game? PLENTY OF US DO. When and if we stop enjoying it, we quit! We keep our money and do other things. If the game changes (which it has, thank god. I HATED abyssea era) I reactivate.

What I don't do it waste my time, money and resources complaining about a SMALL FRACTION of final fantasy xi.

FFXI has so much to freakin do. Do what you enjoy, and stop speaking for others. There is probably more people who don't come on these forums who enjoy the game, than all the posters on here combined.


Cause most people who don't have the time to commit to certain aspects (CERTAIN NOT ALL) also don't have the time and money to waste complaining...

When abysea came out, I wasted until 85 for new endgame stuff, and it didn't come. So me and my wife, along with most of our friends and ls members simply quit.

Me myself, I like a more traditional hardcore ENDGAME, if I don't like the endgame, I simply can't tolerate the game. I am very happy they have moved far away from abyssea and i will support them.

Am I gonna do 500 pws? Hell no, lol. But someone who wants the most POWERFUL, probably overpowered, ultimate weapon in game, WILL strive for it.

The rest of us will live with 75,80,85,90 and 95 relics,mythics and emps.


These are the ultimate weapons for f*ck sakes. This is the last upgrade. So u dont have the time to do it? Then be happy with what u can do. a lv95 version is still good.

I'm loving the game again and according the the active players list, the game isn't anymore in danger than it was when abyssea was the everything. So you're not enjoying the game? Do what I did and quit. Then SE wont have to care about you and they will cater to the rest of us who play the game and enjoy it.


If you can find me evidence that supports abyssea revived this game, awesome. I'll STFU. But there is more evidence to suggest it killed it.

People just wanna believe the game revolves around their personal interests and thats the be all and end all.

Fact check, there are 10 times AS MANY people who don't use this forum and play XI that do.

You don't speak for them. Your cries are just more public cause the rest of us either enjoy the game or move on.

You want proof Abyssea revived this game? Just look at the thread about Abyssea being a mistake.

[Benihana]

Amen, well said.

Although I agree with Sayomi.. You don't even have a relic/mythic... You're just jumping on the anti-SE bandwagon cause they nerfed your emp after you bought all those heavy metal plates Which you said you were going to use for your ukon. You ain't foolin' NOBODY gworl.

Ever since they did that, you have been spamming the board with bandwagon posts.

exposed: http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Asura/Tamoa

[Catsby]

Final Fantasy XI was all about friendships, and meeting new people while having a great time, why not make trials a bonding experience, not a grinding experience that will lead to much worldwide LS turmoil, drama and many more "player warning" posts, im sick of those days, have we not evolved past the stoneage period of this game? Abyssea was a love-hate thing for me, but what we need honestly is not nerfs we need other jobs boosted, we need to feel like we're 99 not 75+1, we need a new expansion pack with totally new areas not regurgitated old ones, and we need to be able to shoot lasers out of our eyes, thats about it.

Yup,

This is why I feel Abyssea was huge step in the right direction. There were tons of rewards for everyone along the way to an empyrean and the empyrean itself wasn't unreasonably difficult to get. The problems that I saw were people taking advantage of over powered atmas and low manning everything without waiting for their LS.

If the voidwatch system came sooner and the concept of personal loot pools for everyone was plugged into abyssea then it may have been perfect.

[Catsby]

Although I agree with Sayomi.. You don't even have a relic/mythic... You're just jumping on the anti-SE bandwagon cause they nerfed your emp after you bought all those heavy metal plates >.>, qhich you said you were going to use for your ukon on BG.

Ever since they did they you have been spamming the board with bandwagon posts.

exposed: http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Asura/Tamoa

No idea what you're talking about but I think you need some perspective. Are heavy metal plate trials honestly reasonable? Honestly?

[Benihana]

No idea what you're talking about but I think you need some perspective. Are heavy metal plate trials honestly reasonable? Honestly?

OMG are we gonna goto HMP now? Again, DONTCURR. My emp is lv.90 and it's staying lv90. I'm happy with that and I don't have the time or care enough to get a 95 emp. I love my emp and even tho i agree with u and sayomi, i still don't care enough to quit the game or my main job cause I dont have the time to get an upgrade.

Do you have a reason to be upset? Yes. I already said I hope people get the trials changed, and good luck. My only argument was that it's simply bs to state abyssea revived XI. It's just as much bs as Abyssea killed XI. The game has been steadily declining and abyssea only cause both, a sever decline and a big increase in subscriptions. People saying if the game had stayed where it was, it would be dead, are delusional.

For people saying their and their friends experiences are "proof" abyssea revived xi, or that my "likes" are evidence or the amount of replies, in a thread, on this forum are indication of anything: again delusional. I covered this in the OP post, theres also evidence, actual numbers to suggest the complete opposite. I know i cant be the only one who keeps an eye on the active player list on xiah. And SE made damn sure to keep that info out of the census, which was taken during abysseas reign. durr durr.

It wouldn't have been any worse or better than all the people who quit/came back because/for abyssea. Only reason you don't hear from them is that they don't waste their time on things they don't enjoy and have moved on. That was my only argument.

You guys are clinging to a game you sound like you hate. Getting mad at every little fix or adjustment.Some aren't even in game... I can't take some of you seriously and neither can SE.

[Catsby]

OMG are we gonna goto HMP now? Again, DONTCURR. My emp is lv.90 and it's staying lv90... cause I dont have the time to get an upgrade.

Then I ask you, Why do you need to turn in a billion items to get a marginal upgrade on something you already put in a ton of time for?

If your answer is something like "because it's the best of the best" then that's what I'm trying to say is a loss of perspective. You already put in the time. I already put in the time. Many of us (myself included) assumed that once we got through that point future upgrades would be trials that multiple people could complete together. Instead we have this cut throat take everyone's things bullshit from 6 years ago. Then one or two mouthy people come here and say that's the way it should be since it's more "hardcore". Fuck that.



Do you have a reason to be upset? Yes. I already said I hope people get the trials changed, and good luck. My only argument was that it's simply bs to state abyssea revived XI. It's just as much bs as Abyssea killed XI. The game has been steadily declining and abyssea only cause both, a sever decline and a big increase in subscriptions. People saying if the game had stayed where it was, it would be dead are delusional.


I'm willing to bet it has more to do with FFXI having a skeleton dev crew, a huge natural disaster, SE's pride, and last gen development methodologies than abyssea.



It wouldn't have been any worse or better than all the people who quit/came back because/for abyssea. Only reason you don't hear from them is that they don't waste their time on things they don't enjoy and have moved on. That was my only argument.

Because they quit when they realized the game was a rat race instead of a game. It became more of a game during Abyssea and now it's devolving back into a rat race. That's why people are pissed and leaving. That's why I might quit too.

[Benihana]

A lot of the members on this forum have this "because I don't like it, no one does or because I care, everyone does, because i'm mad, everyone is upset" mentality.

Fact check, 2k people online when i was last on yesterday in NA time... How many of them do you think care or are quitting because of a nonexistant (atm) trial or a nerf to some emps to overpowered jobs?

Again: "NO1 CURR GWORL"

This game is not going to die because and if SE decides to go back to ALA 2005 ffxi. Sure, we might get another server merge and people will quit, but people have ALWAYS been quitting and abyssea didnt change or put a bandaid on that. People will do the same thing we've always done with a freakin VIDEO GAME: enjoy the content We enjoy doing. The rest of you can .. well.. idk... BYE!

You can be sure people will come back to ffxi too. FFXI is an mmo that's being revamped. Possible new expansions, new endgame events, new notorious monsters, new areas to explore. Ain't nobody worried about that ukon war or that yagrush whm who spends all her time taking zeni pics. Especially since se already said new znm are on the way.. WHICH might drop more of the items needed. . . . . . .

The 500/1k item trial is only unreasonable to me if it only drops from PW and Arch DL. And since the trial is neither finalized NOR implemented in game.. Its just as possible the drops could be added to other monsters, as it is that they would require us to gather 500/1k of them.

[Tamoa]

Although I agree with Sayomi.. You don't even have a relic/mythic... You're just jumping on the anti-SE bandwagon cause they nerfed your emp after you bought all those heavy metal plates Which you said you were going to use for your ukon. You ain't foolin' NOBODY gworl.

Ever since they did that, you have been spamming the board with bandwagon posts.

exposed: http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Asura/Tamoa

Oh noes, you exposed me. As if I was ever trying to hide?

Of course I'm upset that SE has decided to nerf Ukko's Fury. I would have been upset even if I hadn't decided to upgrade my Ukonvasara to 95, the fact that I have been buying heavy metal plates has very little - if anything at all - to do with it. I don't give 2 farts about gil, it's make believe money, it's not real, I couldn't care less if I waste Vana'diel currency at all. In that case I would have been raging and screaming blue murder that salvage gear was made obsolete (hi2u 16ish mil for Ares's Cuirass), or that Dusk Gloves +1 has been replaced (hi2u paying 28mil for a pair). Guess what? I'm still going to finish my Ukon too.

When relic trials were introduced, I thought they were inhuman. Then SE went and adjusted them, and I really felt bad for all the relic owners that had already spent hours and hours finishing their trials. I've always felt bad for anyone seriously attempting a mythic, and admiration for anyone who's finished one. I will most certainly feel bad for both relic and mythic owners if the final trials for both turns out to be drops from Arch DL and PW.

I don't have a mythic, no - because I always thought the requirements to obtain one were ridiculous, and none of the mythic weapons were even remotely interesting to me. I don't have a relic, no - I did start on Bravura a couple of years ago but eventually decided against it, I wasn't interested in spending that amount of time and gil to obtain that or any other relic for that matter.

Oh and PLEASE show me where and how I have been "spamming the board with bandwagon posts" regarding the war nerf. Unless you count making ONE SINGLE POST about it as spamming? One. Single. Post. Feel free to check my profile/posts for yourself.

[Benihana]

Oh noes, you exposed me. As if I was ever trying to hide?

Of course I'm upset that SE has decided to nerf Ukko's Fury. I would have been upset even if I hadn't decided to upgrade my Ukonvasara to 95, the fact that I have been buying heavy metal plates has very little - if anything at all - to do with it. I don't give 2 farts about gil, it's make believe money, it's not real, I couldn't care less if I waste Vana'diel currency at all. In that case I would have been raging and screaming blue murder that salvage gear was made obsolete (hi2u 16ish mil for Ares's Cuirass), or that Dusk Gloves +1 has been replaced (hi2u paying 28mil for a pair). Guess what? I'm still going to finish my Ukon too.

When relic trials were introduced, I thought they were inhuman. Then SE went and adjusted them, and I really felt bad for all the relic owners that had already spent hours and hours finishing their trials. I've always felt bad for anyone seriously attempting a mythic, and admiration for anyone who's finished one. I will most certainly feel bad for both relic and mythic owners if the final trials for both turns out to be drops from Arch DL and PW.

I don't have a mythic, no - because I always thought the requirements to obtain one were ridiculous, and none of the mythic weapons were even remotely interesting to me. I don't have a relic, no - I did start on Bravura a couple of years ago but eventually decided against it, I wasn't interested in spending that amount of time and gil to obtain that or any other relic for that matter.

Oh and PLEASE show me where and how I have been "spamming the board with bandwagon posts" regarding the war nerf. Unless you count making ONE SINGLE POST about it as spamming? One. Single. Post. Feel free to check my profile/posts for yourself.

Yeah and this trial is make believe too. But I guess that went right over your head.. Even after they said it's not official.

You care more about something that's not in game yet and has no effect on you than your own gil? Hmmm.. idk gurl.. That sounds kinda strange.

http://www.vesperala.com/style_emoticons/default/emo-coffee.gif

[Tamoa]

Yeah and this trial is make believe too. But I guess that went right over your head.. Even after they said it's not official.

Spending countless of hours to finish a trial isn't make believe.


You care more about something that's not in game yet and has no effect on you than your own gil? Hmmm.. idk gurl.. That sounds kinda strange.


I care because I have a lot of friends with relics (and some with mythics). I kinda want them to keep playing, you know? And I would like to see them finish their relics and mythics too, you know? Does that make some kind of sense to you at all?

[zagam]

OP you have some points I agree with but you talk just like the people your complaining about. I agree, players like runespider really should quit, or at least quit posting with a tinfoil hat. No company would ever listen to comments when there presented like the majority of the threads started here.

Unfortunately your question could never be answered even with official stats. Abyssea exemplified the whm sock account which by all stat purposes is either an account that was deleted and restarted or a new one created all together which only favors abyssea creating more then loosing.

But just from personal experiences abyssea has in fact been the era of people quitting. It seems that the word balance is being the new bandwagon meme for hating on FFXI but really that's what this game needs. The old school game was on an extreme end and abyssea was on another. I never touched HNM for all the reasons people posted but I still found myself always busy with the other things the game offered. When abyssea came and crapped on the time sinks that kept people going for so long, a lot of friends just got bored. When VW is fully complete and the rest of the new endgame is out I hope they take both aspects of old school and new school. I don't want to log in and finnish everything I need in a few months but I dont want to take 4 years either. H2U valor surcoat.

[Greatguardian]

This thread makes so much more sense now that it's clear who the OP is.

[Zumi]

Abyssea was good for the following reasons. It had gear in it better then what we hard in ages. No more sidegrade crap but actual upgrades. It had weapons that were very powerful didn't take a lot of time gave people something to work for. Everything took a smaller amount of people to accomplish and stuff could be soloed or duoed easily. Decent drop rates made players happy they were getting their empyrean armor.

Basically gave people a lot of stuff to do when before there was really not much at all.

Old endgame was pretty dumb camp Fafnir for 3 hours a day, Tiamat for 72 hours ect, do salvage for 1% droprates the list goes on.

[Benihana]

This thread makes so much more sense now that it's clear who the OP is.

http://pics.livejournal.com/zanzou_chan/pic/000yec9t


Some people are just so mad.

Oh well. In other news, the care cup has emptied.

Must be Tanaka's doing. AFK quitting game/life!

[cidbahamut]

AFK quitting game/life!
Well at least there was one positive thing to come out of this thread.

[Arcon]

HNM was 'endgame' because it was the most popular event alongside Sky for a very very long time. Both events found themselves never quite reaching obsolescence until well into Abyssea. These were also the two events that most individuals would call 'endgame' when quoted over the years.

I have a list of individuals who would disagree (especially about the "most popular" part). Those two were the "most popular" endgame only before everything else was introduced.


It also didn't help that SE literally did their best to keep certain pieces of HNM top in the slot even as new events like Einherjar, Assault, Nyzul Isle, Campaign, ZNM and so forth came out. These events too were endgame but did they beat Black Belt? Ridills? Adaman Hauberk? Hecatomb Cap? lolKoenig Body? Hecatomb Leggings? No. This reluctance to end that content (or duplicate their drops elsewhere) is why the bot wars escalated, why people dropped 2k USD for the most leet bots and why botting became standard at most HNMs.

Reluctance is a strong word, since they did duplicate almost all of them. Admittedly, it took longer for Einherjar, but it happened. In this thread alone I said three times that the only notable HNM drops were Defending Ring, Ridill and Hauteclaire. Arguing about anything else is pointless. Fact is, HNM was 99% about the money drops (including Hauteclaire and Ridill for most LS) and 1% about trying to get a Defending Ring (possibly less).


Oh and I know you're going to bring up Einherjar [..]

(Because I brought it up the last five times when we talked about this?)


[..] and I should address that. Einherjar wasn't a replacement to Kings - it was a supplement and a stupid sidestep. In the time it took to build up an Odin, the people cheating probably had enough shots at the world spawn to laugh at your pathetic Odin pool if he happened to even drop what you wanted. Hadean junk instead of a more Nid-like pool? Well that's just too bad, see you in the next cycle... a month from now.

It seems you're only talking about one group of players when you say these things: your own HNM crowd. It wasn't a replacement (also, I never said that), it wasn't a supplement either, though. It was an alternate route for people not participating in the HNM scene. Simple as that. It was designed to not be as efficient as HNMs. SE always wanted the people that were going all out to have the best (something that Abyssea washed away, some people will argue that it was for the best, getting rid of all the elitism and whatnot). They wanted people camping HNM whenever they could to have the best shot at abjuration gear and black belt items. The reason they made those items drop off Einherjar and KS99 was just to give people who didn't want to buy them, or go through a similar fighting experience to be able to do that without the competition. And people did that. Sure, it took them longer, but with two Odins a month (nice made up number, btw) they were still able to get decent drops. Compare that with the (I'm always pretty optimistic, I'm sure you can tell) 10 Nidhoggs that popped a month, of which I'm guessing you claimed 4 (very optimistic), and the drop rates don't sound too far apart.


36man content and you have to wait a month for 4 abjurations in a pool. Classic SE, classic Tanaka.

I didn't even wanna argue with you about the fact that it took longer, but these numbers just make me twitch. Try 20man content and 8 abjurations a month. That means every three months, everyone gets one body abjuration on average (accounting for the fact that sometimes T3 was a bitch). Meaning in one year (accounting for even more fails), everyone would have gotten three abjurations on average. Sure, it may not have always been the one you wanted, but even if one of them was a Dalmatica or Adaman Hauberk, you got a drop that HNMLS have been selling for prices in the double-digit millions. And considering that many linkshells were able to do that, I'd say it's a significant step up.

Of course, now you will come and argue that wasting one year to get one item you're after is insane, forgetting about the fact that the average content-delivery time is about every two years (time between major expansions/updates) and about the fact that it was only ~2h out of every week to do it, and not stopping you from still doing everything else, meaning everyone was able to keep up with everything that was released. SE simply weren't shooting for what MMOG players are used to these days, rapid, temporary content. They didn't wanna release FFXI as a game, but as a project, something that people would literally play for years, something they succeeded at, but something that doesn't fly well with people now that they've shown them Abyssea.


Don't even try to defend Sandworm because it's going to make you look stupid.

I'll tell you what SE's only mistake with Sandworm (same as every other world spawn) was: they underestimated the hardcore players. Why did SE create world spawns in the first place? Why did kings exist, when they're so prone to abuse by the community? Simple: SE didn't know that. Their intention was one that I extremely looked forward to when I decided to try and play FFXI and first heard about these monsters lurking in remote places: that only the most experienced and skilled adventurers would dare to go there, find the beasts and take on challenging battles. That backfired, badly. They didn't expect the players to be so zealous over them that they would destroy their own lives just to get a claim. What was intended as an unique adventuring experience turned into a business.

And SE did realize that, despite what you're trying to sell people on. They did try to battle it. Sandworm was one of the results, but I'll get to that in a bit. Their first measure was something else: the introduction of the random claim delay. It was extremely successful in preventing botters at first. However, cleverly set up bots would still have an advantage over other bots (and players), especially with several mules. So they had to think of something else. And I repeat, this is not an easy task. Short of removing said content (which they did now, when it could have actually been how they envisioned it), so someone thought of another idea, namely Sandworm and Dark Ixion. Mobs that don't always spawn in the same zone, let alone the same place. And it helped with that, too, although again, they underestimated how crazy hardcore players really are. They didn't know people would actually stand ready for hours just waiting for one mob to pop. But people did. However, since SE made it harder for botters (a success in that regard, btw), it's even easier to complain about these mobs than other mobs.

The long spawn window? A measure to prevent people from trying to camp it all the time. Surely enough, this backfired as well. You call it a violation of their "word to the players", and again, the same point over and over again, they simply didn't know people would be this crazy about game content. Irresponsible? Maybe. In that regard, making a MMOG is irresponsible in itself, because it is an addiction, after all. People will always get worked up about it. The spawn windows were an attempt to precisely counter that. Because, why would you stay up till 4AM to wait for SW to pop? You should be in bed by then, it simply moved out of your play window. But that's not what hardcore players will think. They'll think "Fuck SE, now I have to stay up longer because of this crap!", which is pretty much just rephrasing what you just said.

The only mistake SE ever made with the design of HNMs was underestimating the playerbase and their willingness to sacrifice their own life for it. There's two ways to look at it. You're saying they're responsible for making this system the way it is. Others would say the people who participate in that are to blame, because they inflict it upon themselves.

I'm not even gonna bother to defend either of those points, because that's not even the original question. This little detour was inspired by your avoidance of answering to what I tried to say, namely that you can't tell people what was fun and what wasn't. That is outside of the realm of what the development team made right or wrong, it's about the aforementioned moral superiority you assume over other players. And it's not always black or white either. I personally hated Sandworm and Dark Ixion, I liked the idea of kings, but I didn't like competing against bots. I loved camping King Arthro and Simurgh for example. 21~24h repop, plenty of competition usually (at least for KA), but hardly anyone bothered with bots for them (I'm talking last few years). It was just normal competition. It had its ups and downs, it had its rules, it had people who broke them, but it also had its fair share of nice and memorable moments and was generally a good time. I even helped other people camp these NMs after I got what I wanted, just because I liked it. It was casual camping, camped it whenever the window was in our timezone, didn't stay up till 4AM for it, didn't cheat or bot or insult one another. Now, what sets these apart from kings? Just the kind of competition you had, nothing else. And for that I love one, but didn't care much for the other. So it's obviously not SE's fault, because they gave me something I enjoyed. It was the players who made it into something that I didn't.

[Nynja]

The long spawn window? A measure to prevent people from trying to camp it all the time. Surely enough, this backfired as well. You call it a violation of their "word to the players", and again, the same point over and over again, they simply didn't know people would be this crazy about game content. Irresponsible? Maybe. In that regard, making a MMOG is irresponsible in itself, because it is an addiction, after all. People will always get worked up about it. The spawn windows were an attempt to precisely counter that. Because, why would you stay up till 4AM to wait for SW to pop? You should be in bed by then, it simply moved out of your play window. But that's not what hardcore players will think. They'll think "Fuck SE, now I have to stay up longer because of this crap!", which is pretty much just rephrasing what you just said.

The only mistake SE ever made with the design of HNMs was underestimating the playerbase and their willingness to sacrifice their own life for it. There's two ways to look at it. You're saying they're responsible for making this system the way it is. Others would say the people who participate in that are to blame, because they inflict it upon themselves.

What fucktarded logic would concieve the following:
If players will camp hours on end for rare gear, we should make mobs take even LONGER to spawn, meaning the gear will be even rarer, therefor people will be less likely to spend time camping it.

[Seiowan]

Well, I'm back BECAUSE of Abyssea. I'd say that's at least partial evidence that Abyssea brought back some players to the fold :p

[Arcon]

What fucktarded logic would concieve the following:
If players will camp hours on end for rare gear, we should make mobs take even LONGER to spawn, meaning the gear will be even rarer, therefor people will be less likely to spend time camping it.

"Maybe if we made it absurdly long, and there's no efficient way to find it quickly, they'll realize it's pointless to do this kind of camping?"

I don't know. I don't agree with it. As I said, I hate Sandworm and Dark Ixion. I just find this explanation more likely than all of SE going "Hah, this will troll people even harder!". Either way, fact is when the circumstances got more extreme, the campers got more extreme.

[FrankReynolds]

This thread is retarded. A lot of people quit because of abyssea. A lot of people quit for various reasons that were not related to abyssea, like new games and the whole billing issue. Hell, half my Sea/dynamis shell quit to play FFXIV (and then just quit period). There were also a lot of people who started because of it, came back, and / or started second/third accounts. I highly doubt that even SE knows why people quit or join / restart. It's not like they give you a questionaire about it, or at least they never gave me one.

[Kiroh]

This thread is retarded. A lot of people quit because of abyssea. A lot of people quit for various reasons that were not related to abyssea, like new games and the whole billing issue. Hell, half my Sea/dynamis shell quit to play FFXIV (and then just quit period). There were also a lot of people who started because of it, came back, and / or started second/third accounts. I highly doubt that even SE knows why people quit or join / restart. It's not like they give you a questionaire about it, or at least they never gave me one.

This is pretty much it. Neither side can say how many people quit or returned because of Abyssea itself, as people join and quit all the time for all kinds of reasons. Unless SE starts putting out questionnaires when you cancel your content ID, we'll never know and even then it's unlikely SE would ever release that information if they had it (which they don't).

In other words this whole thread is "My opinion is more valid than your opinion so STFU YOU NOOB!", confirming my suspicion that this is indeed similar (if not identical) to a religious 'debate'.

It's sad that threads like this get hundreds of responses, it really is...

(And with that, my contribution to this troll fest has ended.)

[Neisan_Quetz]

As proven by the census, SE can collect data on Notorious monsters, so I won't believe for a second they 'didn't know' Kings/Sandworm/DI were going to get abused, and could easily tell how much they were being camped. If they seriously did not know, they are some of the most ignorant people I have ever heard of.

[Neisan_Quetz]

I do not understand why everyone is saying Abyssea save FFXI it didnt it made it worst. All I see nowadays is Super noobs running around thinking they are best ppls in game with their empy and AF3+2 with zero skills can not even hit a mob with their weapon. All Abyssea did is made it easy for lazy ppls to get higher levels and make the gil sellers richer because ppls are paying 100k an hour for exp. Every time I see a shout for 100k an hour exp all I do is laugh and think to myself why would anyone pay for exp, but most ppls will disagree with me about Abyssea. They are going to say it save the game and think it a godsend because you can lvl 10 jobs to 99 in a day with zero skill. Then they want to shout for a skillup or where a good spot to skill up

You're on the same server as Jaderattlesnake, thinking people weren't getting max level pre abyssea and still not having a goddamn clue about how to play the game or their jobs is just plain ignorant.

[Luvbunny]

You're on the same server as Jaderattlesnake, thinking people weren't getting max level pre abyssea and still not having a goddamn clue about how to play the game or their jobs is just plain ignorant.

So is there where Jaderattlesnake is going now? At your server in Quetzalcoatl? I feel sorry for you :P

[Sparthos]

I do not understand why everyone is saying Abyssea save FFXI it didnt it made it worst. All I see nowadays is Super noobs running around thinking they are best ppls in game with their empy and AF3+2 with zero skills can not even hit a mob with their weapon. All Abyssea did is made it easy for lazy ppls to get higher levels and make the gil sellers richer because ppls are paying 100k an hour for exp. Every time I see a shout for 100k an hour exp all I do is laugh and think to myself why would anyone pay for exp, but most ppls will disagree with me about Abyssea. They are going to say it save the game and think it a godsend because you can lvl 10 jobs to 99 in a day with zero skill. Then they want to shout for a skillup or where a good spot to skill up

Because laziness wasn't rampant pre-Abyssea, because people weren't paying to be SMNburned, because EXPing to 75 made you a pro, because people weren't leeching in Chigoeburns, because people couldn't just solo EP to 75.

[Riseofgary]

You're on the same server as Jaderattlesnake, thinking people weren't getting max level pre abyssea and still not having a goddamn clue about how to play the game or their jobs is just plain ignorant.

I from Midgardsormr my sever merge with Quetzaloatl so I dont know who is Jaderattlesnake and dont care

[Riseofgary]

Because laziness wasn't rampant pre-Abyssea, because people weren't paying to be SMNburned, because EXPing to 75 made you a pro, because people weren't leeching in Chigoeburns, because people couldn't just solo EP to 75.

I was soloing on my blu ,rdm and most of my other jobs pre Abyssea and there is always going to be lazy ppls ingame. So stop living in the past this isnt about SNM Burned leeching in Chigoeburns. It about lazy ppls that love to defend Abyssea

[Neisan_Quetz]

I from Midgardsormr my sever merge with Quetzaloatl so I dont know who is Jaderattlesnake and dont care

Then I really don't know how you're trying to complain about others not knowing what they're doing while sporting an Uther's grip on drg.

[FrankReynolds]

I was soloing on my blu ,rdm and most of my other jobs pre Abyssea and there is always going to be lazy ppls ingame. So stop living in the past this isnt about SNM Burned leeching in Chigoeburns. It about lazy ppls that love to defend Abyssea


All Abyssea did is made it easy for lazy ppls to get higher levels and make the gil sellers richer because ppls are paying 100k an hour for exp.

I think you might be one of the people who he was referring to when he sarcastically said:


because EXPing to 75 made you a pro, ....... because people couldn't just solo EP to 75.

Soloing doesn't make you good at anything but soloing. If even that. Leveling slowly doesn't make you good at anything but leveling more. If that.

[Neisan_Quetz]

You tried to complain that abyssea made people skill less and not know how to play the game, while using inferior gear with easy to acquire better gear available; in fact, it's HARDER to get uther's grip than better options which shows you are intentionally gimp, and don't even know how to play yourself. Yea, just get out.

[FrankReynolds]

Trust me I know how to play this game dont get mad because I chose to gear my jobs as I please and not to your golden book because there is a better piece. I dont give too shit about gear I'm more about fun. I should get a full sent of pink and where for maybe it will turn you on.

Then you are in fact the terribad player that you were complaining about. Congratulations on your self loathing. Now you can argue with yourself.

[Francisco]

Abyssea, for me, revived FFXI.

If you flash back to April of 2009, when I effectively stopped playing, here's the status of my character.

- All missions complete.

- All merits maxed out on my job.

- All equipment, aside from relic/mythic maxed out (aside from, perhaps something like Cuchulain's or HQ VIT Earrings for Chakra).

- All HNM, aside from PW (which we killed in July 09... was the only thing I logged on for after April), and AV killed several times over.

- Crafting near maxed (98) with no desire to finish it, and an over-flooded, poor-profit economy.

- LS Events reduced to HNM Fomor that drop dick, and boring VNM fights. Events like Salvage and Einherjar had mostly run their course by this point.

So I mostly stopped logging on, except for PW attempts. Once we killed it, half of the LS just didn't come back. After killing it on July 27, 2009, I logged on once in September and once in December. There was simply nothing left to do. After December, my CC lapsed, and I didn't bother to reactivate.

Abyssea, in part with the cap increase, changed that. After years of stagnant content, minor additions and sidegrades, things finally got shaken up.

If you take away Abyssea, and replace it with Voidwatch, but still do the cap increases... I probably still come back. But I probably also get bored with grinding out the levels in GoV dungeons, and would have eventually quit months ago.

Unfortunately, the game is getting to 2009 status again, for several reasons.

- WAR and MNK nerfs should not only anger WAR and MNKs, but concern other jobs as well. By nerfing these jobs, SE is demonstrating they have more interest in weakening the stronger jobs, than strengthening the weaker jobs. We're basically back to where we are at 75... and once "balance" is found, there's reason to believe we're going to be "stuck" at that balance, and see minimal character growth in the future.

- Insane timesinks are going to alienate 99% of the players. At this point in the game's life, most of the content has been done over by everyone uncountable times. If the content is there, and worth doing, I'll stick around and do it... I'm not going to re-up my subscription for another several years so I can obtain 1000 Squeaking Apkallu Gizzards or some nonsense...

- Voidwatch, while good and challenging content, is overall lackluster. It should not be the center piece to version updates.

- After the "rush" of Abyssea, and just through natural time progression, the game's population is decreasing.

- Decreasing game population makes it harder for players to participate in large scale content. Right now, there are two people on my LS. Me and another guy. We're both leveling BST. This is the same LS that once killed PW. As recent as the beginning of December, we regularly had ~6-12 on at any given time. SWTOR coming out, recent news from the Dev. Team, etc... has just made everyone else in the LS lose interest. This stuff snowballs. If my LS completely dies out, I lose incentive to play as well. I guess I'm an example of the direction the game has taken... My server has seemingly no interest in doing Voidwatch, and my linkshell is not really interested in FFXI anymore. I'd like to do Voidwatch, but I'm basically excluded from it.

So yeah, that went off on a tangent, but Abyssea did revive this game from it's 2009 state, like it or not. Some may have quit over it, but it encouraged large groups to form (for XP), gave players equipment to "wow" over, without the difficulty turning them off of it, and just gave the game something new and fresh to do.

And that's what FFXI needs right now... something new and fresh... something big. Something that can preferably be managed with a handful of friends - because really, that's all that's left for a lot of the players. Nyzul/Salvage will be nice if they do it right. Limbus too. A new expansion would be the balls. I doubt we'll get that though.

What SE does next is pretty damn important. I've got about 3-5 other LS members who are still "active" and at least half of them are on the fence about leaving. We're getting by mostly on one insanely rich BST funding King Behemoths and Nidhoggs for the hell of it.

[Glacont]

Well Played, Francisco. /cheer

[Atomic_Skull]

I don't even pay Runespider/Ravemore/Sparthos attention anymore because ALL their posts are the same and it's been months of it. I don't mean to be mean, but you obviously enjoy something about the game TBH.


If someone keeps repeating the same thing over and over and over to the point you get tired of looking at it then just add them to your ignore list like I did with Kimble.

[Riseofgary]

You tried to complain that abyssea made people skill less and not know how to play the game, while using inferior gear with easy to acquire better gear available; in fact, it's HARDER to get uther's grip than better options which shows you are intentionally gimp, and don't even know how to play yourself. Yea, just get out.

Dude what you did look me up on FFXIAH because I havent been on Drg in awhile and all I see is you bitching about is Uther's grip which I know is junk and FrankReynolds is co signing as if he played with or know me ingame such foolish ppls that love to talk shit and fell proud because the have an emp and running around in AF3+2.

[Greatguardian]

Dude what you did look me up on FFXIAH because I havent been on Drg in awhile and all I see is you bitching about is Uther's grip which I know is junk and FrankReynolds is co signing as if he played with or know me ingame such foolish ppls that love to talk shit and fell proud because the have an emp and running around in AF3+2.

Well, obviously you were on Dragoon 2 days ago and it's pretty freaking terrible.

At least I'm not talking shit and felling proud while running around in AF3+1, Uther's Grip, and latent: Relic WS weapons.

[Riseofgary]

Well, obviously you were on Dragoon 2 days ago and it's pretty freaking terrible.

At least I'm not talking shit and felling proud while running around in AF3+1, Uther's Grip, and latent: Relic WS weapons.

Yes I'm proud of it because it just me. I am not going to lose sleep over a job that I barley play on and not one of my main job. I have 17/20 that range from 95-99. Why would I care about a Drg that I dont use that much. I can tell you this I bet you I can still out DD ppls with full AF3+2 that was born in abyssea win my gimp drg and latent Relic WS weapon skill. Since you look me up did you like my Gandiva and armageddon and dont worry my relic Bravura will up soon I guess you like to talk shit and guess what my War is running with full AF3+2 and so is my Rng. while my blm and nin is just 4/5
on AF3+2 but I do have a life outside of FFXi so I couldnt pimp my Drg for you Greatguardian. I still want to thank you for looking me up you made me feel real important. Dont worry I am working on VWNM too. And it feeling proud not felling

[TybudX]

You have WAR, DRK, and SAM all 95-99 range, not one of which should wear Uther's Grip. Sell a stack of crystals, buy a Sword Strap, quit being overtly stupid and/or lazy.

[Greatguardian]

All of the people making fun of you have played either from release or for a very long time regardless. But sure, go ahead and talk about people born in Abyssea and RL card some more.

I swear, some people are their own worst enemies.

[Sparthos]

I don't even pay Runespider/Ravemore/Sparthos attention anymore because ALL their posts are the same and it's been months of it. I don't mean to be mean, but you obviously enjoy something about the game TBH.

Some of us like to be consistent in what we say is all. That's what taking a side in a discussion is all about.

[Greatguardian]

Step 1: Make a thread

Step 2: Get told to gtfo by entire forum

Step 3: spam "idc, u mad bro?" gifs

Step 4: ???

Step 5: Profit!

[Benihana]

Step 1: Make a thread

Step 2: Get told to gtfo by entire forum

Step 3: spam "idc, u mad bro?" gifs

Step 4: ???

Step 5: Profit!

http://www.vesperala.com/style_emoticons/default/emo-coffee.gif

"Verethragna"

exposed: http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Cerberus/Greatguardian

Nothing left to say TBH.

http://www.vesperala.com/style_emoticons/default/emo-coffee.gif

edit: oh and look those comments. Looks who's one of your friends... I guess I really was right about bandwagoning war and mnk. At this point, deal with it and stop trashing people for having an opinion.

[Kimble]

I like it when people just start to spam gifs. Means I can easily tell they have no point and are just trolling.

[Benihana]

lolz bye guys. U guys are just trolling now.

This thread has just turned into personal attacks. Point of thread was to get a legit answer to so many bogus claims about abyssea reviving xi, i shoulda known it would turn into a "how dare you question my personal experience to the facts". Good luck getting changes to the game with a nasty attitude and sprouting BS.

Some sincere advice: if you want se to listen, try not personally attacking people and making stuff up. I don't have the willpower to argue with such a person. So yeah. Gifs match the idiocy of some of your arguments, and it's all i got. Cause fact is, ABYSSEA did not revive final fantasy XI, it just added something fresh to a stale and grinding landscape.

As for nerfs, again. Theyve been nerfing jobs since release and they will nerf other stuff that was added after lv76. Your jobs arent special, we all have to deal with nerfs. I'm not amused anymore. Have at it kids and good luck.

Some of you are gonna need it with that attitude.

huge salute to fransico and catsby for giving intelligent argument to my post. I can respect that. . . . You guys are the people i hope se listens too.

[Doombringer]

just because it seems so relevant to this thread <.<

[Kimble]

Generally, if you want people to take you seriously, you would use proper spelling to convey you actually mean what you say.

When you start going "LOLZ YOU GUIZ ARE STOOPID, SETTLE DOWN GURL" no one is going to take anything you say seriously.

Some people might just generally be whining to whine, but from 76-95, nothing was getting nerfed, jobs were only getting stronger. To now get to 99 and instead of fixing the issues with jobs (granted, they did fix PUP AI) they are now instead choosing to nerf other jobs. Its not very encouraging going forward and it puts people in a state of "well, this job is really strong, I really would like to max it out, but i'm not sure if I want to put all that work into it just to have SE then say i'm to strong and they need to make me weaker"

before 95 trial (empy) and 99 trial (relic) it wasnt such a big deal because of how easy it was to make an empy and how accessible relic became. But now, with how hard it can be to find 1,500 HMP, as well as having the gil to buy them, and with the drop for 99 relic coming from ADL, its really hard for players to want to put in the effort for something like that knowing in the back of their head, all their work can be for not if SE feels like just nerfing it.

Honestly, making this thread is like asking someone to prove god exists, there is no way to prove or disprove it.

[Nynja]

I was gonna respond to Benihana, but then i realized I'm on ignore list...
So I'll ask instead, whats the point of making a thread when you ignore everyone who disagrees with you?

[Catsby]

I was gonna respond to Benihana, but then i realized I'm on ignore list...
So I'll ask instead, whats the point of making a thread when you ignore everyone who disagrees with you?

Some people just really like to hear themselves speak (or see what they type as the case may be).

[Shadowsong]

This Benihana person is FANTASTIC! Just what this forum needed again
I miss Krystal, Starcade, and Hardcore (who is apparently back!)

Keep trollin man, you are extreamly entertaining

[Meyi]

Sounds like someone is past their nap time. :<

If you like the masochist playstyle SE has been so famous for, then good for you! A lot of people don't. Only evidence I have is the complaints on forums (all forums, not just official).

[Auburn]

I doubt this will serve as evidence but it can't hurt. Myself and 5 other friends (Hoshino, Alistiar, Drezzy, Catana, and Seijirohiko all on Carbuncle) of mine have been away from the game for 3 years and recently came back to try out this whole Abyssea business. We liked what we saw, we've all agreed Abyssea is the most fun we've ever had on ffxi.

[SNK]

This thread has been very entertaining.

[Kluaf]

Well i think abyssea itself helped the game by injecting a massive amount of new content albeit at $30.00 then got discounted by 1/2 like 30 days after Heroes came out and the people who bought at full price got a cute lil Prishe statue that wud give more money if u only had that in your house and wasnt playin in abyssea. course if u waited n got the discounted version u got a cool lil hat that increased speed and skill gain hmmm LOL

any ways i still believe abyssea helped as far as new content but WTF was the reasoning on the random drops from mobs logs ores the craftable stuff goobiebag prices went from millions to a couple 100k to knock em out the price of everything jus dropped bcuz of the aby drops :( you can now burn through a craft 1-100 in no time a for lil money i jus honestly think the reward system was completely out of whack as another poster said it was rushed like oh shit wut about drops ??? lets jus through divine and jacranda logs out there like free cheese or well toss ores and ingots like beads at Mardi Gra !!! Oh and since the few RMT gardeners still keep growing n wont stop while were at it maybe we shud kill the value of gardened goods by tossin out elemental ores like elemental crystals jus bring out new content doesnt mean u have to be hell bent on destroying the foundation youve built ...

[Zerich]

Well i think abyssea itself helped the game by injecting a massive amount of new content albeit at $30.00 then got discounted by 1/2 like 30 days after Heroes came out and the people who bought at full price got a cute lil Prishe statue that wud give more money if u only had that in your house and wasnt playin in abyssea. course if u waited n got the discounted version u got a cool lil hat that increased speed and skill gain hmmm LOL

any ways i still believe abyssea helped as far as new content but WTF was the reasoning on the random drops from mobs logs ores the craftable stuff goobiebag prices went from millions to a couple 100k to knock em out the price of everything jus dropped bcuz of the aby drops :( you can now burn through a craft 1-100 in no time a for lil money i jus honestly think the reward system was completely out of whack as another poster said it was rushed like oh shit wut about drops ??? lets jus through divine and jacranda logs out there like free cheese or well toss ores and ingots like beads at Mardi Gra !!! Oh and since the few RMT gardeners still keep growing n wont stop while were at it maybe we shud kill the value of gardened goods by tossin out elemental ores like elemental crystals jus bring out new content doesnt mean u have to be hell bent on destroying the foundation youve built ...

holy run-on sentences, batman!

[Kluaf]

holy run-on sentences, batman!

LOL I know i cant help it I do try n take breaths between though :)