Extenarator

[Vosslerr]

Has anyone played around with this new ws on DNC? Is it worth fully meritting and building a set for?

[Raksha]

Short answer: yes.
Long answer: yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.

[Vosslerr]

Ok thanks Raksha :)

[Asymptotic]

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/242341

[Vosslerr]

Wow Asymptotic, nice set there. Tried the new ws today, seems very nice.

[Zhronne]

Anguinus/Justicar's instead of elemental gorget/belt?
I'd love to see some second or third option for that set.
What to put in neck slot if you don't have a Justicar's yet?
As for body I guess Denali could be a decent option? (agi+10/attack+9)
And Thew Bomblet in ranged slot?
Ocelomeh+1 a good second option for head slot? Should be close to Cuahuitl+1, which has less agi but more STR (str tiers and attack) and dagger skill (attack)

Guess it's not worth to equip Toci's Harness to gain the TA+3% set slot?

[Ragni]

I think anwig salade with AGI+4 WS damage +2% STR+4 WS Acc+15 is a lot better than Cuauhtli Headpiece +1.

[Asymptotic]

Anguinus/Justicar's instead of elemental gorget/belt?
I'd love to see some second or third option for that set.
What to put in neck slot if you don't have a Justicar's yet?
As for body I guess Denali could be a decent option? (agi+10/attack+9)
And Thew Bomblet in ranged slot?
Ocelomeh+1 a good second option for head slot? Should be close to Cuahuitl+1, which has less agi but more STR (str tiers and attack) and dagger skill (attack)

Guess it's not worth to equip Toci's Harness to gain the TA+3% set slot?

1.) Elemental gorgets and belts are generally terrible unless you really have no better choice, your WS has very low ftp (or is one of the new low-ftp, first hit ftp applies to all hits WS). In this case Houyi's Gorget is probably the next best option, followed by Arctier's Torque or w/e the heck it's called (AGI+6)
2.) In the description of that set, I state "Tabard is obviously difficult to obtain at the moment, so in the mean time I recommend Denali Jacket."
3.) You can use Thew in ranged slot, but you can solo Potestas Bomblet for free from GoV in Upper Delkfutt's Tower.
4.) Ocelomeh+1 will win in situations where you have extremely high attack.
5.) Correct.

[Asymptotic]

I think anwig salade with AGI+4 WS damage +2% STR+4 WS Acc+15 is a lot better than Cuauhtli Headpiece +1.

First of all, please refrain from providing advice when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Second of all, DNC doesn't augment a WS head in the first place. Waltz delay -2, or go play a different job.

[Zhronne]

1.) Elemental gorgets and belts are generally terrible unless you really have no better choice, your WS has very low ftp (or is one of the new low-ftp, first hit ftp applies to all hits WS). In this case Houyi's Gorget is probably the next best option, followed by Arctier's Torque or w/e the heck it's called (AGI+6)
I wouldn't be so negative on ele gorget/belts, for some jobs' ws they're still the best option out there.
It seems this just isn't the case for Extenterator, but they can't be that bad though, c'mon :P
But yeah, I agree there has to be much better options, I just wanted to avoid getting an item I would use for a single ws of a single job I don't even get the lucky chance to play that much to avoid wasting money and getting an inventory+1.
Still, when I make these kind of choices looking for compromises I *need* to know which options are the best, otherwise I'll be unable to make a *good* compromise, so in this light your post is very very much apreciated <3


3.) You can use Thew in ranged slot, but you can solo Potestas Bomblet for free from GoV in Upper Delkfutt's Tower.
Or I can buy it when it falls under 1 mil. Would be used by a lot of my jobs. I'm gonna try in chests as well but that thing is so random I could spend a week in there and see nothing and see 2 in 30 mins (happened to other people with other items).
My only concern for the ranged slot is that I'm gonna need 2 different macros probalby... one that swaps into the ammo, and one that stays with the agi+6 boomerang (which I use in my TP evasion set)


4.) Ocelomeh+1 will win in situations where you have extremely high attack.
Which isn't likely to happen at all, unless we consider extreme situations.
But it should still be a decent option, right? I'm actually considering to buy the lolNQone, which hurts me a bit but as much as I would have spent 5 mils on the HQ, I'm definitely not going to pay 7 mils, and that's the price it reached on my server recently >_>

Thanks for everythng else! Hope to get better results next time I go dyna on DNC, last time Exenterator has been a bit lackluster. I topped a 1650ish but was usually staying around 1100ish damage.
My setup back then was very bad though, it was something like:
Head: Anwig with Agi/WSdamage/Dex/Critdamage, which was my best option at the time
Body: Loki's
Hands: Charis+1
Legs: Tumbler trunks
Feet: Lithe?
Neck: Elemental
Waist: Elemental
back: Atheling
Ammo: Thew
ear1: brutal
Ear2: Aesir
Ring1: Epona's
Ring2: Stormsoul? Whatever the agi+7 is called

Oh and of course my weapons sucked too.
Yagathan MH (dmg+8 critdamage+5%) and Twilight OH

So yeah, bad set. Luckily I've improved a lot already so I'm expecting better results next time ;)

[doctorugh]

Etoile Body +2 wouldn't be a bad option for WS piece, you lose a little damage vs Denali (like 1%), but pick up a boat load of acc which makes it worth it to me. Also, I've heard this might have a -acc mod on it but have yet to test it out.

[Asymptotic]

I wouldn't be so negative on ele gorget/belts, for some jobs' ws they're still the best option out there.


If your WS:

1.) Has high fTP
2.) Is multi-hit
3.) Is not one of the new merit WS with low fTP but apply gorget bonus to all hits (Realmrazer, Shun, Stardiver, etc.)

Gorget/Belt are not good options. This pretty much eliminates all viable weapon skills from the running which might benefit from gorget/belt.

Justiciar's is best-in-slot for pretty much every WS DNC might use (Rudra's Storm, Dancing Edge, Evisceration**, Pyrrhic Kleos, Exenterator) and while I'm not an expert on the other jobs listed on it, it seems it's pretty useful for those jobs too.

**Currently best obtainable for Evis, Nefarious Collar may be better but comes from Caturae WoE probably.


'm gonna try in chests as well but that thing is so random I could spend a week in there and see nothing and see 2 in 30 mins (happened to other people with other items).

I didn't leave UDT for 3 days. However, my Potestas Bomblet is one of 2 confirmed to exist on my server.

[Fyreus]

Would the 3% crit hit dmg gloves be worth Wsing with? I play in and out of abyssea and i'm wondering if a higher crit damage outweight the few extra agi (i don't have the Ws yet).

[Raksha]

Would the 3% crit hit dmg gloves be worth Wsing with? I play in and out of abyssea and i'm wondering if a higher crit damage outweight the few extra agi (i don't have the Ws yet).

Exenterator can't naturally crit, so 3% crit damage won't affect Exenterator at all unless you use climactic flourish. Even then I doubt 3% crit bonus would be better than a few AGI.

[Urat]

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/240079

I think this is close to optimal extern build for dnc. Only piece that really is hard to tell is body, tossup between Athos's and Toci's, however I have toci's atm so that's what I use. Triple attack and double attack are both really really nice.

I also am using merman's + brutal in my ear slots atm, since the upgrade from 6 attack to 4 agi is only small and definitely not worth 3.5 million gil, as well as inventory-1, I use mermans for my -mdt build so I already have them, so that's more of an inventory space thing.

[Asymptotic]

One of your rings should be Epona's, Athos' Tabard wins, neck should be Justiciar's Torque, Ammo should be Potestas.
Head and belt are less clear.

[Urat]

One of your rings should be Epona's, Athos' Tabard wins, neck should be Justiciar's Torque, Ammo should be Potestas.
Head and belt are less clear.

Agi+7 ring beats epona' by a long shot on dnc, dunno about thf.

Athos tabard probably wins, like I aid I have toci's and athos is probably only a marginal upgrade.

Want to use the agi+6 or whatever chakram in ranged slot since thats what I always use, and since it costs tp to swap that's locked in.

Houyi's gorget is pretty much on par with Justiciar's, however its store tp+3 makes it marginally better, and if your acc is anything short of capped it wins that much more.

[doctorugh]

Agi+7 ring beats epona' by a long shot on dnc, dunno about thf.

7 Agi will net you a little over 3% more damage

3% TA and 3%DA will be roughly 3.5%


Houyi's gorget is pretty much on par with Justiciar's, however its store tp+3 makes it marginally better, and if your acc is anything short of capped it wins that much more.

Houyi: ~2.7% (barring acc)
Justicar: ~4%

[Urat]

7 Agi will net you a little over 3% more damage

3% TA and 3%DA will be roughly 3.5%



Houyi: ~2.7% (barring acc)
Justicar: ~4%

I'm sorry but where are you getting these values from, and how are you even able to state a static % increase in damage for a piece of gear with attack+? The % increase from justiciar's will be entirely based on how high the defense is of your opponent. If you've already capped the differentiation then +attack will do nothing for you at all, whereas +agi will always give more damage.

[doctorugh]

I'm sorry but where are you getting these values from, and how are you even able to state a static % increase in damage for a piece of gear with attack+? The % increase from justiciar's will be entirely based on how high the defense is of your opponent. If you've already capped the differentiation then +attack will do nothing for you at all, whereas +agi will always give more damage.

I just simply plug the numbers of my current build vs a mob 6 lvls higher that has 450 def (generic mob slightly higher lvl). You'll not cap ratio without some serious buffs going on or the mob being ep.

[Asymptotic]

It's not even easy to cap attack on EP mobs in Dynamis without Berserk.

[Motenten]

7 Agi is almost guaranteed to give you +6 base damage (5% chance of only giving +5 damage). A fairly solid gear set will put you at about 200 base damage, which means the +6 damage will be worth about 3.0%.

Epona's, on the other hand, will -not- give you its full benefit, since two triple attacks will cap at +3 attacks instead of +4, and is generally devalued based on how much DA/TA you already have. Overall average puts it a very small bit ahead of a Stormsoul if Saber Dance is down, or a similarly very small bit behind a Stormsoul if Saber Dance is up.

Overall, I wouldn't bother with the inventory +1 of a second Stormsoul for this use case. You still want at least one Agi ring to use in place of Rajas, though.


On Houyi vs Justiciar, if you get all 6 points of base damage from the 6 Agi, or you're already capped on fStr, Houyi basically ties with Justiciar. If you don't then Justiciar's is a small bit ahead (a larger difference than the Stormsoul vs Epona comparison).

[doctorugh]

Ok, in reguard to epona's worth, here is a more detailed post.

Ext is a 4 hit (+1 DW) giving essential 5.0 ftp. Excluding the epona's, I have 9 DA in my setup which translates to the first 2 hits giving and average of 5.18 fTP

Eponas give a 3% chance to TA (+0.06), leaving 12% of the remaining 97% for 12 DA (+0.1164)
On the second attack of the WS, There is a 97% chance that the TA did not go off the first round, so its total value is a little less (+0.0582, instead of 0.06), again leaving 12% of the of the remaining 12 DA (+0.1164).
Additionally the 3% TA would become a double attacK (i think) if TA had proc'ed on the first hit (+.0009)

5.3519/5.18 = 3.32%

Basically, if you have eponas and dont feel like spending 1mil for a side (or lower) grade, use it.

[Zhronne]

Messing around with the spreadsheet, tested average Exenterator damage with some combinations of head/body.

~561 attack
1) Ocelohead+1/Toci's => 1359
2) Ocelohead+1/Athos => 1356
3) Cuauhtlihead+1/Athos => 1355
4) Ocelohead+1/Denali => 1339

~654attack (Bison Steak)
1) Ocelohead+1/Athos => 1606
2) Cuauhtlihead+1/Athos => 1601
3) Ocelohead+1/Toci's => 1595
4) Ocelohead+1/Denali => 1583

I found the results surprising, wasn't expecting Toci's to perform that good.
Oh, of course these are the results with my setup, which is far from being optimal.
Here are the details of the rest of my gear:
Main: Lux Pugio
Off: Twilight
Ranged: Thew
Neck: Houyi
Ear1: Brutal
Ear2: Aesir (@low attack this is ok, @higher attack rates even a +2 agi performs better, so goes without saying that +3agi or +4agi should be the winner here under all conditions)
Hands: Charis+2
Ring1: Epona's
Ring2: Solemn
Back: Atheling
Belt: Anguinus
Legs: Tumbler's
Feet: Athos

As far as the spreadsheet goes ALL buffs were turned off except for Haste Samba (which doesn't affect WS damage anyway), 12/12 STR merits, 0/8 Dagger merits.

[Asymptotic]

Zhronne, your conclusions are consistent with our quasi-mathematical analysis here (http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/27566/the-last-dance-gearing-paradigms-for-a-new-age/18/#1728190)

I was surprised @ Toci too.

Question, what DEF value were you using for the enemy? VS. DC mobs in Dynamis, 654 attack is actually pretty low, I think.

[Zhronne]

I was using the standard "Fodder" option from Motenten's spreadsheet. That's fine for EP mobs, but that's definitely not enough for DC ones indeed.
On EPs I was easily spiking 2,5k, on DCs my damage was like... half of that? Eyeballing of course, haven't parsed or anything but spikes were really small.

[Asymptotic]

About half sounds about right on DCs assuming RCB. Berserk takes care of it for the most part, though.

[Zhronne]

I was using Bison Steak, not RCB, and no Berserk since I was DNC/00 in party with friends. I always go DNC/00 in Dynamis if I'm with a friend. If I have to solo I usually go BST/DNC

[Asymptotic]

I usually go DNC/WAR and WHM/THF. The <1% white proc rate isn't worth the reduced efficiency to me.

[Urat]

Would you say the gear changes at all if you're using something like, say, Dragon Soup? I get one for free every week from my kitchen in my MH so.

Also, what would be best set up for Externator in abyssea? I'm thinking Gnarled horn + omega + apoc?

[Asymptotic]

It's not worth reducing your overall damage output to increase your Exenterator damage with atmas in Abyssea. Use Evisceration, although when soloing NMs I use Exenterator for the Accuracy Down effect.

RR+GH+SS or RR+GH+Apoc, end of story.

[Zhronne]

Edit:
Asymp anticipated me!

[Asymptotic]

I was subbing SAM.