For the new merit weapon skills........

[Akutenshi]

Would it be better to go say the TP bonus weapons or say the trial weapons that boost the attribute of the weapon skill like VIT or STR? I understand that this pretty much depends on your gear, but say you have decent enough stat boosts from gear, would the stat boosts from the weapons be more beneficial then say a TP bonus weapon? Or better yet, at what point does a TP bonus weapon outshine a magician trial weapon that boosts a stat for a weapon skill or does it trump them now? Thanks in advance.

Not really interesting if this applies to tachi shoha as I heard the keinotachi or whatever is the route to go in that case lol

[Greatguardian]

You're not going to get an across the board answer to a vague question.

Pick a WS, then ideally pick a gear set to use for it, and then ask a more specific question and people would be better able to get back to you.

[Yukichibi]

I think he wants to know what is better between a TP bonus or a stat +11 ToM weapon for the new WSs.

[saevel]

depends on the WS in question.

[Greatguardian]

Depends on the WS. Depends on the target. Depends on your gear. Your buffs.

You won't get a worthwhile answer to a vague question.

[Cream_Soda]

More information is required.

[Akutenshi]

Well, I guess there is no easy answer lol Lets just say you have best in slot item for gear and their ws mods. In a "perfect" scenario if you have best in slot items (twilight head, chest or grim and other random pieces that if don't have a decent amount of stat boost have say att/acc instead) would it be beneficial to take the magician trial stat weapons that would further benefit the weapon skill mod or say would the TP bonus be a better weapon? Lets also say you have weaponskill gorgets and belts as well. I mostly play two handed classes so information would mostly be for them if possible please. Any other information on one handers would be appreciated too.

Say if your doing VW, which would be better if you have perfect gear as the weapon choice. Lets just say you have generic buffs such as haste. Is that better? Going from the answer to this I can make an educated on how to gear and whatnot. Thanks for taking the time to read, suggest, and answer everyone.

[Greatguardian]

Look, I don't think you're properly understanding just how much information you seem to be asking for all at once. I don't want to just throw an answer at you without actually sitting down and verifying it, but I need to have something concrete in front of me to verify. You seem sincere, and I'm not trying to be a dick about it, but I want to be sure that any answer I give you is correct.

Since you mentioned Voidwatch, we can go ahead and assume that the target is moderately high level. Let's say a Lv:106 target with 560 Def, 470 Eva, 120 Vit, and 120 Agi for defensive stats. Now what we need are the player's numbers. This is the information we need from you. I need to know what job/WS in particular, one at a time, as well as all of the gear you're using for both the TP and the WS phase. I'll also need the stats of the final weapons you want to compare if they don't happen to be on the wikis.

Basically, I'm asking for hard numbers so that I can give you a concrete answer. Saying "The best gear" doesn't really do much for me, as well-intentioned as it may be, because I don't know what the best gear is for jobs I don't play off the top of my head. I can compare pieces against one another with predefined gearsets because I have a working knowledge of damage mechanics and some awesome calculators, but I'm not confident in my ability to whip up ideal TP or WS sets for jobs I've never touched.

Summary: I want to answer you, but I need concrete data. Please choose 1 WS first, and post complete gear sets for both TP and WS in order to run the calculations. I'm not going to make fun of you if the gear isn't perfect. I just want to give you a realistic and correct answer.

[Akutenshi]

I have a good understanding how Torcleaver works so I was wondering about using Resolution and Entropy as Drk. As War I planned on getting Upheaval too, I just don't have it leveled just yet. Can you use these base stats just for the sake of the math? I'd use my Torcleaver setup since the mod is Vit for it and War can use most of my Torcleaver gear.

TP:

Str:89 + 19
Dex:87 + 9
Vit:93 + 7
Agi:84
Int:91
Mnd:75
Chr:77

Head: Bale Burgeeonet +1
Neck: Chivalrous Chain
Earrings: Brutal and Centaurus
Body: Bale Cuiras +1
Hands: Bale Gauntlets +1
Rings: Raja's and Keen
Back: Atheling Mantle
Waist: Headlong lol
Legs: Jingang Hose
Feet: Ace's Leggings
Grip: Pole
Ammo: Fire Bomblet

Gear for Entrophy I'd use:

Head: Bale Burgeeonet +1
Neck: Shadow Gorget
Earrings: Brutal and Centaurus
Body: Grim Cuisass
Hands: Bale Gauntlets +1
Rings: Snow ring and spiral ring
Back: Atheling Mantle
Waist: Pennitants belt
Legs: Bale Flanchard +1
Feet: Bale Sollerets +1
Grip: Pole
Ammo: Fire Bomblet

Stats would be with WS gear:

Str:89 + 37
Dex:87 + 4
Vit:93 + 5
Agi:84 + 4
Int:91 + 26
Mnd:75
Chr:77

Attack 623

Scythe: Reckoning 119 Damage Delay 528 TP + 100
Scythe: Absolution 132 Damage Delay 513 Int + 10

Resolution I'd have for ws:

Head: Bale Burgeeonet +1
Neck: Soil Gorget
Earrings: Brutal and Centaurus
Body: Grim Cuisass
Hands: Bale Gauntlets +1
Rings: rajas and spiral ring
Back: Atheling Mantle
Waist: Sentry Belt
Legs: Bale Flanchard +1
Feet: Bale Sollerets +1
Grip: Pole
Ammo: Fire Bomblet

WS Stats

Str:89 + 52
Dex:87 + 9
Vit:93 + 5
Agi:84 +
Int:91 + 12
Mnd:75 + 7
Chr:77

Attack 610
Espafut + 2 118 damage delay 466


Lets just use my drk stats if I did use Upheaval on my Drk and used a Vit Build how would it fare? I could use this info for War when it's fully leveled:

Head: Varanigan Helm
Neck: Light gorget
Earrings: Brutal and Centaurus
Body: Grim Cuisass
Hands: Bale Gauntlets +1
Rings: rajas and spiral ring
Back: Atheling Mantle
Waist: Warwolf Belt
Legs: Jingang Hose
Feet: Bale Sollerets +1
Grip: Pole
Ammo: Fire Bomblet

Str:89 + 52
Dex:87 + 10
Vit:93 + 21
Agi:84
Int:91 + 12
Mnd:75 + 7
Chr:77

Lets say I had the War GA for the sake of the math:

Atlas: damage 124 delay 482 vit +10
Sumeru: damage 110 delay 488 TP bonus + 100
Elephas Axe of AH: Damage 109 delay 504 accuracy +4

I'm going to say 620 ish attack as an estimate?

I hope this is enough info for you to use. I tried to include what you asked so you wouldn't have to check each piece of gear and stats to make it a little easier for you. Thanks again for taking time to go through and give me advice. I can put merits into whatever stat would benefit the weapon skills as well. I have them in INT right now as I play mostly mage jobs or bst. If you suggest I should put them for the weapon mods or for the sake of math then go ahead and assume I put them in there to make it easier for you. Thanks again.

[Raksha]

Both entropy and resolution have variable ftp depending on tp, so a TP bonus weapon would affect both of them. They aren't large ftp mods but they likely carry over across all hits which adds up to a decently large bonus. I rarely play melee so check me on this, but I think elemental gorget/belt would be ideal for both of those. As for weapon I don't know but TP bonus wouldn't be a terrible option (i think)

[Greatguardian]

Okay, much better. Thank you.

For Entropy:

I have STR Scythe > INT Scythe >>> TP Bonus Scythe pretty much across the board. The attack is still relevant on pretty much everything outside Abyssea.

For Resolution:

Same deal, I have STR GS > TPBonus GS. The difference gets lower inside Abyssea where you have mountains of Str already and Attack is devalued, but I don't have it ever losing to TPBonus outright.

A recommendation for both WS is to shoot for the Elemental Belt to pair with the gorget, since these WS have very unique fTP properties. Since their fTP carries over to all hits, the relative value of gorget/elebelt skyrockets on them, so they're pretty much the best pieces for the slots they're in.

Upheaval: Again, same deal. Str weapon beats out Vit weapon, which beats out TPBonus. However, I don't have elemental belt winning for this one because it does not share the same fTP properties as the other 2 WS.

It's also worthwhile to mention that, for Upheaval at least, the VIT weapon also has PDT on it so it allows non-Bravuras to come closer to capping PDT while maintaining capped Haste in TP. If you're going to be taking a lot of physical damage, this GA just may be more useful even if it's not stronger outright. That will depend on how you plan to use it, mainly.

This (https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B0A0wGYYRRdaZjdlNTdkNTEtMDMyYy00OTVmLWI4N2ItNDMwMDI1N2VkYWZk&sort=name&layout=list&num=50) is a good resource for general gear comparisons, essentially a calculator. Credit to Motenten/Kinematics, he's the original author and keeps them updated regularly. If there's any gear that's not listed as an option, you can just replace an existing piece's stats in the Gear Lists tab - Note, however, that you should not try to add additional lines as this will break the spreadsheet.

[Neisan_Quetz]

For adding additional gear, if you use insert on a line in a category that is not the first and last item in a category (ie. Ammo category has 3 items, use insert above the last item and below the first), you can add equipment without breaking the sheet. Any other way will cause an error. Also, make sure if you change an item's stats, said item is not listed as equipped on the gear sheet, as this will cause an error as well until you remove it.

[Yukichibi]

Okay, much better. Thank you.

For Entropy:

I have STR Scythe > INT Scythe >>> TP Bonus Scythe pretty much across the board. The attack is still relevant on pretty much everything outside Abyssea.

For Resolution:

Same deal, I have STR GS > TPBonus GS. The difference gets lower inside Abyssea where you have mountains of Str already and Attack is devalued, but I don't have it ever losing to TPBonus outright.


Can you give me your point about ToM weapon "weapon skill damage +10%" for the same comparison please ?
The more damage you deal, more is the bonus, so, is it worthwhile ?

[Akutenshi]

I would not of thought of the STR weapons could make that much of a difference. Thank you for pointing that out. I think that goes to say that I should merit STR then as well as I am starting to do more stuff outside abyssea now that my time permits so once I upgrade my gear a bit. I will shoot for the belts that effect weapon skills too. On my warrior I think I will go for the VIT GA for the reasons you pointed out. Thanks again for making this all clear and answering.

[Akutenshi]

Since I already had the TP bonus scythe path worked on I went for that and noticed a big difference in Entropy damage with just a weaponskill gorget and the scythe. Even more so damage with the belt. I think if you stack the weaponskill gorget, the, belt, and the TP bonus scythe it would be much more better then the 10% scythe. I was thinking about going with that scythe at one point but I'm glad I didn't.

Just a thought as well if you have the TP bonus scythe or weapons and atma of the smiting blow, your 100 TP turns into 300 TP. I've noticed an sizable increase in damage when I went with that atma with the TP bonus weapon.

[Greatguardian]

A big difference compared to what? TP Bonus scythe mathed out pretty awful overall, especially since I was calculating overall damage rather than per-WS damage (which is an unimportant number to begin with).

Smiting blow also raises the problem of over-TP'ing, as any TP over 100 is wasted, and there's no way it will beat out Alpha&Omega/Apocalypse/Razed Ruins for overall damage.

[Akutenshi]

Unfortunately I do not have Apocalypse yet so I was using usually A&O, smiting blow, and either VV or Razed Ruins. I ended up getting all three scythes cause I was bored and I had them started so figured why not. Overall you were right about the STR scythe. I have the best results with that one outside aby. Between the INT scythe and the TP Bonus one I always got more higher numbers with smiting blow with the TP bonus scythe then with the INT scythe.

Once I got the weaponskill belt I did notice that the INT scythe did get closer and sometimes comparable damage. I took out smiting blow and used MM just for the INT bonus and the numbers with that one wasn't so bad either. If I ever get around to getting apocalypse and finishing up the last few missions for the TP bonus earring I probably wouldn't used smiting blow and stick with the INT scythe and better atma. Just depending on what I'm doing or soloing or whatever switching up the atmas isn't too bad. Overall I'm happy with the numbers 3-4k+ with spikes that can be higher. Nice change if your bored with GS.