What Atmas Do You Use?

[svengalis]

Just wandering what atmas I should be using as a nin DD or tank.

[Superchicken]

whatever you want, that's the beauty of freedom of choice.

you will get a range of opinions here

RR,VV,GH,APOC, AandO, etc etc etc

then you gonna get answers that vary upon what you are fighting.

For instance i just got done with my 85 kannagi so for sobek i was using RR,Einherjar, and Siren Shadow

when i'm out just messing around i use RR,GH,VV alot

or maybe i'll use Apoc in there in place of one, or maybe APoc and Alpha Omega.

theres other stuff that factors in to like what weapon skill is your prime WS, do you have Blade: Hi or is Jin your best.

Do you want to beef up your WS damage or you melee dmg? Atma is situational and personal preference

[Ritsuka]

I would like to know the answer to this as to what most ppl use cuz i seen a ninja do 3,200 damage with with blade: hi what atma's would you use for that damage o,0

[Superchicken]

can get even higher than that. I've hit over 4k blade: hi with just VV, RR, and GH. I'm not saying thats the optimal blade: hi setup just saying that at that time those were the atmas i had on

[Invasion]

For an all round build I recommend RR/GH/Apoc, RR/Apoc/AplhaOmega is probably better from a pure DD standpoint, but it's all situational.

Also you can reach 3k+ easily from just Blade: Jin.

[Nemesio]

For blade: hi you should pretty much always use AoA, GH, RR. The only benefit VV gives Hi is Double Attack, seeing as the STR really won't do much of anything. While AoA offers triple attack.

[Superchicken]

again i never said it was the optimal blade: hi setup it was what i had on at the time. And let point this out.

Everyone is so oh you gotta use Apoc atma cause it has triple attack blah blah. Ok lets look at like this

Apoc atma offers 15% TA. thats cool and all but lets think about this

VV offers 5% DA and the regain and the STR (which say is not necessary but STR translates into attack as well)

nin/war offers 10% DA rate through the war subjob

But then lets really think about apoc. Lets say i'm in a fight where i only get the chance pull of 3-5 weaponskills whats the chance of that TA actually procing on one of those weaponskills during that fight on blade hi? well if i did 5 ws's the chance of ta procing on even one of those is very very low.

Now over a course of 100's of weaponskills yeah the number of chances to actually get a TA proc on Blade: Hi goes up but is it worth it? to you maybe, to me the constant regain at 2 per tic tp is more appealing than a low chance to TA a blade: hi
brutal earring offers 5%
Twilight belt 2%
Atheling mantle 3%
Epona's ring 3%

so with VV instead of Apoc we are getting 28% double attack rate and 3% TA (from eponas) plus a 2% regain and 50 STR that always translates into some attack

with Apoc we are getting 23% Double attack and 18% TA (assuming that the TA on apoc is really truly 15%, and dont say its 15% cause people have tested. I don't take others so called test as hard evidence cause i could say hey i went and did 100 attack and 15 of those were TA's so its gotta be 15%. Thats not a viable test supply imo. Show me some hard evidence where you have done thousands of attack rounds to gain your data, but again same can be said for the things like brutal earring and the VV atma being double attack major = 5% to me that doesn't make sense if superior TA on apoc is 15% i would think major would be a little more than 5%. Things like epona's ring and twilight belt and atheling mantle we know are a certain percent cause it stats it there but even then could be wrong cause we all know SE has put stuff on gear and its not truly giving that stat the gear says.

So yes 15% TA is appealing for those times it procs on your WS and you get those big big numbers on your Blade: Hi but when people say you should be using Apoc all the time is pretty much out there. Like i've said i like the regain i get from VV in most cases cause it helps with constant tp gain. It's not like Apoc where a so called 15% of time i'm getting regain, its constant and thats appealing to me. Now someones gonna say but you get auto rr from Apoc so you should have it on for that. Yes auto rr is nice but i have a whm with me at all times to raise should i die from what i'm doing at that time, and yes i use apoc when a situation is there and i need it, but to say Apoc is a must have atma on at all times is a little much that i think alot of people are so into. APoc atma this apoc atma that!

but i know you are gonna now say "well you would trade 5% more double attack for 15% triple attack" and for most situations i would say yes as i have stated the regain is appealing to me along with the da and STR.

but lets go even further and look thiss. Lets say i'm in a fight where i only have the chance to do 3-5 weaponskills or say even lower if i'm fighint things that aren't nms and have much lower HP. Whats the chance that the TA is actually gonna proc on one of those ws's? its very low. Now over say 100's of ws ok the TA may be more appealing for out of 100 WS's 15 of those should have a TA proc and i can go "WOW did you see that DMG!!!!" To you that may be more appealing but to me i'll take the constant regain even if its only 2 per tic over a small chance to have a TA proc. But this is my opinion and you have yours. But when people say Apoc is a must have atma on for dd's is a little far fetched to me.

Now when i'm on thf i use the Apoc atma more because thf already has a TA job trait and more gear that has even more TA on it and i'm usually /nin so i'm not getting 10% DA from warrior job trait. To each his own though

[Ezikiel]

again i never said it was the optimal blade: hi setup it was what i had on at the time. And let point this out.

Everyone is so oh you gotta use Apoc atma cause it has triple attack blah blah. Ok lets look at like this

Apoc atma offers 15% TA. thats cool and all but lets think about this

VV offers 5% DA and the regain and the STR (which say is not necessary but STR translates into attack as well)

nin/war offers 10% DA rate through the war subjob

But then lets really think about apoc. Lets say i'm in a fight where i only get the chance pull of 3-5 weaponskills whats the chance of that TA actually procing on one of those weaponskills during that fight on blade hi? well if i did 5 ws's the chance of ta procing on even one of those is very very low.

Now over a course of 100's of weaponskills yeah the number of chances to actually get a TA proc on Blade: Hi goes up but is it worth it? to you maybe, to me the constant regain at 2 per tic tp is more appealing than a low chance to TA a blade: hi
brutal earring offers 5%
Twilight belt 2%
Atheling mantle 3%
Epona's ring 3%

so with VV instead of Apoc we are getting 28% double attack rate and 3% TA (from eponas) plus a 2% regain and 50 STR that always translates into some attack

with Apoc we are getting 23% Double attack and 18% TA (assuming that the TA on apoc is really truly 15%, and dont say its 15% cause people have tested. I don't take others so called test as hard evidence cause i could say hey i went and did 100 attack and 15 of those were TA's so its gotta be 15%. Thats not a viable test supply imo. Show me some hard evidence where you have done thousands of attack rounds to gain your data, but again same can be said for the things like brutal earring and the VV atma being double attack major = 5% to me that doesn't make sense if superior TA on apoc is 15% i would think major would be a little more than 5%. Things like epona's ring and twilight belt and atheling mantle we know are a certain percent cause it stats it there but even then could be wrong cause we all know SE has put stuff on gear and its not truly giving that stat the gear says.

So yes 15% TA is appealing for those times it procs on your WS and you get those big big numbers on your Blade: Hi but when people say you should be using Apoc all the time is pretty much out there. Like i've said i like the regain i get from VV in most cases cause it helps with constant tp gain. It's not like Apoc where a so called 15% of time i'm getting regain, its constant and thats appealing to me. Now someones gonna say but you get auto rr from Apoc so you should have it on for that. Yes auto rr is nice but i have a whm with me at all times to raise should i die from what i'm doing at that time, and yes i use apoc when a situation is there and i need it, but to say Apoc is a must have atma on at all times is a little much that i think alot of people are so into. APoc atma this apoc atma that!

but i know you are gonna now say "well you would trade 5% more double attack for 15% triple attack" and for most situations i would say yes as i have stated the regain is appealing to me along with the da and STR.

but lets go even further and look thiss. Lets say i'm in a fight where i only have the chance to do 3-5 weaponskills or say even lower if i'm fighint things that aren't nms and have much lower HP. Whats the chance that the TA is actually gonna proc on one of those ws's? its very low. Now over say 100's of ws ok the TA may be more appealing for out of 100 WS's 15 of those should have a TA proc and i can go "WOW did you see that DMG!!!!" To you that may be more appealing but to me i'll take the constant regain even if its only 2 per tic over a small chance to have a TA proc. But this is my opinion and you have yours. But when people say Apoc is a must have atma on for dd's is a little far fetched to me.

Now when i'm on thf i use the Apoc atma more because thf already has a TA job trait and more gear that has even more TA on it and i'm usually /nin so i'm not getting 10% DA from warrior job trait. To each his own though

i always full time Apoc because i dont like waiting for some AFK mage to raise me but i use it on melee and mage

[Invasion]

STR does very little to your WS. The Regain is pretty insignificant on 1 handed weapons, it's real benefit is for 2 handed where it could help with with x-hit builds.

15% TA is not 15% TA as you're aware, the more you increase the less it gives proportionately, so ignoring that and stacking DA in it's place is doing far less over time.

23% DA and 18% TA is way better than 28% DA and 3% TA...

Also Apoc will increase your DPS significantly more than VV ever will, Apoc isn't just about WS numbers ya know.

[Superchicken]

yes and regain doesn't stop when i'm idle either. Like i said its situational and if i'm in abyssea say farming apkallu for apkallu eggs or w/e it may be the apoc atma's proc rate is not gonna make a difference for me because of how fast i kill them anyway and this is what i was doing when i got the ws number i mentioned above. and not to mention my offhand weapon was a KC so no point in the apoc atma for standard dd purpose anyway. To each his own and is also why i said atma selection is situational and up to the player to decide what they want / like , what works for them etc.

STR does little to your WS? STR doesn't translate into attack? Attack plays no part in WS dmg? news to my ears.

again i say numbers are numbers if you want to go by people's postings on wiki.

I can jump off a my two story balcony 100 times and never break a bone. So can is it fact that if you jump off my balcony 100 times you'll get the same results? I can make a wiki about it too and post it there does that make it true? I did it 100 times and never broke a bone so it must true to say theres a 0% chance you will break you leg right?

[svengalis]

Thanks guys for the input. If anyone else has anything to add please feel free. But yeah my main thing was blade: jin as dd. I have seen nin do 2k with it and was wandering what would be the best atmas to use to see this kind of damage.

[Superchicken]

Thanks guys for the input. If anyone else has anything to add please feel free. But yeah my main thing was blade: jin as dd. I habe seen nin do 2k with it and was wandering what would be the best atmas to use to see this kind of damage.


Well with blade: jin you have options

well use wiki's postings (so take them for what they are) on blade:jin.

modifier is STR and dex 30%.

It's a 3 hit ws with chance of crit depending on TP

So, razed ruin is gonna be good here, and being a multi hit ws things like Apoc, VV, Alpha and Omega can give you the chance to DA or TA one of those hits in your WS even more should you choose that route. Gnarled horn is also an option and some will even say Sanguine Scythe but i personally wouldnt use Sanguine Scythe.

Best thing to do is try them out see what you like more, what suits your play style, etc. Remember whatever you hear here is simply others opinions / suggestions not the end all must use atma combination. Biggest factor is what you are fighting / doing and what you need to better yourself for that fight.

Example being, i 3 manned majority of my Sobek fights with a thf, myself on nin, and whm. So since i was the tank i wanted to increase my survival of his move that can instantly KO you. So my atma of choice included Einherjar, Siren Shadow, and Razed Ruin.

when i'm usually just messing around in abyssea by myself with my alt whm with me i typically use VV, RR, GH cause thats what i like and suits me for what i'm doing

[Invasion]

Learn the game mechanics, as a KC you should know better.

Regain we've established does nothing during TP, and the ATK from 50STR = 25 as 1H weapons work different to 2H as it's only .50 and not .75 so it's 25ATK.

Adding 5% more DA to your 23% will net you roughly 2% return as DA is considered an addition to hits as like I say DA has decreasing returns.

What you're really saying is 25 ATK is better than 15% TA, across the whole board.

Also if you really wanna go to town on your KC then being /WAR is pointless, Brutal, Epona's, Atheling, Twilight are all pointless. Kamome is better offhand.

Try harder.

[Superchicken]

yes i know how DA and TA effect a KC, but again let me itterate to you it don't play a game changing factor with what i was doing at the time. a friend and i had built enough time messing around farming cruor, by time we got tired of doing this we had so much built up extra time i was pretty much in and out afk inside abyssea. So while i was cleaning my house preparing for company my toon was idleing around so when i came back for a second i'd have tp so i'd turn around and blade: hi an apkallu. at the time my offhand was my KC as it usually is when i'm just standing around doing nothing or when i like to just break it out for the hell of it. Never said i fulltime offhand a KC, never said, i never use Apoc atma, never said 25 ATK is better than TA across the board, what i said was for what I was doing at that time and place there was no reason to have Apoc atma on. Oh and i was /war for the reason that i was gonna go claim some NM's here and there if i felt like it to build some pop sets. Yes i know how a KC works and the effects DA TA /war etc have on it this is why you will never see my /war or using any DA TA etc items in my tp gear when i'm on my RNG and my main source for tp gain for what i will be doing that day or w/e is gonna be the KC.

Too many people think Apoc is the you must have on atma for any dd job, i'm simply stating that yes its good, yes will give you chance to TA your ws or TA regular attacks, but does that mean its good for everything and should be a Standard atma that all DD use? Everything is situational is the simple point here

[Ina]

Thanks guys for the input. If anyone else has anything to add please feel free. But yeah my main thing was blade: jin as dd. I habe seen nin do 2k with it and was wandering what would be the best atmas to use to see this kind of damage.

I use VV/GH/RR and normally see 2k+ from my jins... it can be an insanly random WS though, I've seen it break 4k a few times (not on damage weak mobs, can't remember what they all were but one of them was a mnk type gigas) but also seen it dip as low as 400ish a couple times.

[Kirana]

People say that Apoc is a must have DD atma because +15% triple attack is absolutely huge. And don't go saying it's not +15%, I have personally parsed it for 1000+ attack rounds. You are severely underestimating the effectiveness of the TA in your previous post.

Granted, if you are planning to just AFK for regain, WS once, and repeat, VV is great.

As far as normal DDing goes, your best bet is RR/GH/Apoc, especially if you have Kannagi (+50 agi from GH = WS mod).

edit: as for high WS numbers, I have broken 5k with Jin using RR/GH/Apoc

[Invasion]

How you play, gear and how you clean your house is little interest to me. I'm purely stating VV atma has no place for Ninja, and that Apoc is far superior.

All your argument hold is if you are idle.

And yes it should be a standard Atma for DD jobs.

[Superchicken]

so you're in a situation where you have dd's that dont need to be tping on the NM your fighting, and they're role is simply to run in and dump tp, they should all be using APoc right? And i'm duoing an NM with myself and my alt whm, where i'm the tank/dd/only form of damage to apply to the NM, i should be using Apoc right? Hmm, w/e you say boss. We all know what they say about opinions.

Again, all atma are situational and up to the player to choose what they want to use, etc.

[Invasion]

Apoc will help you tank better yes.

[Superchicken]

its not gonna help me survive the chance of getting KO'd by tyrant tusk or getting hit from a NMs multi hit tp move.

[Invasion]

Oh and VV will?

You've no idea what you're talking about, nor what you're trying to argue anymore.

[Superchicken]

did i say i used VV on mobs like sobek? NO. Did i say atma is situational yes. you said apoc is standard atma for dd. And in the SITUATION where i'm the tank and dd when i'm duoing something by myself where i'm playing nin and the whm then i'm a dd cause i'm dealing the damage. So yes i know what i'm arguing its that atma choice is situational and that Apoc is not a standard atma you should be using at all times when you are dd like you are saying.

If i'm on ninja and i'm farming up my Key Items for NMs is VV good yes because it gives me constant regain which helps when i'm building tp for things like raiden thrust, earth crusher, GK ws etc.

[Mojo]

Razed Ruins - Always, no matter what.
Gnarled Horn - Always, but I have Kannagi and solo/duo a lot, so the +50 AGI helps a lot. It's likely the best second atma choice for Blade: Jin users as well (I use it on Verethragna MNK and Victory Smite is a STR mod WS.)

The third atma depends on what I'm doing. If I'm in a DD situation fighting NMs and the like, which I often am, then Apoc almost always. Sometimes I replace this with Cloak & Dagger. I suppose if I was afking a lot then VV might be useful to have 100% TP at the start of every mob, but I can't foresee myself doing this very often. I do use Mounted Champion often for the Regen as it's nice when I'm solo /WAR (for red procs.)

Also, offhanding Kraken Club is questionable, at best. Here's a little napkin math.

The best case scenario for Kraken Club yields 1 hit per round mainhand 3.8 hits per round offhand. This would only ever occur if you were DNC subjob and using poor atmas, but we'll disregard that for the sake of this comparison. Using Atma of the Apocalypse, Twilight Belt, Brutal Earring, Epona's Ring, Double Attack from WAR subjob, and Atheling mantle yields 18% Triple Attack and 23% Double Attack. Assuming the distribution listed on studio gobli is correct, you're left with the following numbers of hits per round.


N Kannagi Club Occurrence Kannagi Hits Club Hits
1 1 1 0.05 0.05 0.05
2 1 2 0.15 0.15 0.30
3 1 3 0.25 0.25 0.75
4 1 4 0.25 0.25 1.00
5 1 5 0.15 0.15 0.75
6 1 6 0.10 0.10 0.60
7 1 7 0.03 0.03 0.21
8 1 7 0.02 0.02 0.14

Total 1.00 1.00 3.80

Kannagi Kamome
1.5486 1.5486

Finding the number of hits for Kannagi/Kamome was done by calculating Triple Attacks first and then calculating Double Attacks when Triple Attacks didn't proc (.18 * 3 + .82 * [ .23 * 2 + .77]). This is an assumption on how the game works, nobody really knows. Assuming Double Attacks overwrite Triple Attacks yielded a result within 2.75% of the one I listed.

Kannagi/Kraken Club total delay is 474 (1 round every 7.9 seconds, or 0.1266 rounds per second,) Kannagi/Kamome total delay is 400 (1 round every 6.66 seconds, or 0.15 rounds per second.) Ignoring haste/dual wield (will produce the same increase for both,) yields the following hits per second.


Kannagi Kraken Club Total
0.1266 0.4810 0.6076

Kannagi Kamome Total
0.2323 0.2323 0.4646

Factoring in delay and dual wield (assuming Iga Zukin +2, Ninja Chainmail +1, Suppanomimi and Rajas Ring) produces 4.6 TP per hit for Kannagi/Kraken Club and 4.5 TP per hit for Kannagi/Kamome. So you're left with 2.7950 TP/second on Kannagi/Kraken Club and 2.0907 TP/second on Kannagi/Kamome. Or, in otherwards, using the Kraken Club under optimal circumstances will only yield a 33.7% increase in TP gain.

Now, it's worth bringing up the very low DMG rating on Kraken Club. Assuming capped fSTRs for all weapons (which will definitely occur inside of Abyssea) leaves you with the following total DMG ratings.


Weapon DMG fSTR Total DMG
Kannagi 56 14 70
Kamome 39 12 51
Kraken Club 11 9 20

You can factor this in with the hits per second to come up with a DMG/second number, which is odd but perhaps useful in this case for comparing melee DoT.


Kannagi Kraken Club Total
8.8620 9.6200 18.4820

Kannagi Kamome
16.2610 11.8473 28.1083

So, going from Kannagi/KC > Kannagi/Kamome yields a 52.1% increase in melee DMG/second applied to the mob. This is a best case scenario for Kraken Club because it disregards Kannagi aftermath. Assuming you have the level 1 aftermath up 100% of the time, it's a 30% increase in DMG (on just the Kannagi.)


Kannagi Kraken Club Total
11.5206 9.6200 21.1406

Kannagi Kamome Total
21.1393 11.8473 32.9866

This yields a 56.0% increase in the same switch, and is the best case scenario for Kamome. So the observable number will fall between those two points.

I could provide some more napkin math on other facets of total damage output, but they're not going to mean much because those variables (pDIF, WSC, etc.) change too much from circumstances to provide useful ballpark figures. What you can conclude within a reasonable degree of confidence is this.

The increase in TP gain provided by offhanding Kraken Club is, at most, 33%. This won't always equate to 30% more weaponskills, however, because of things like TP overflow and holding TP because the mob has low health.

The increase in DMG/second by offhanding Kamome is around 51~56%. It's a reasonable measurement of optimal DoT from melee swings.

In this comparison, I ignored the effects that Kamome gives on critical damage. It's pretty big, that's the entire reason for offhanding Kamome. With RR & Qirmiz Tathlum you're looking at critical damage * 1.35 already. Kamome providing +0.10 to this yields a marginal gain of 7.41%. This increase would occur 74% of the time (with Gnarled Horn + Razed Ruins, 95% if you have Innin.) The actual DoT increase will be less than this, hard to say by how much without knowing a pDIF average.

I also made no analysis that the loss of 120 combat skill would have. You're losing a tremendous amount of accuracy and attack (108) on all of your offhand swings, which is the main source of your TP gain and, as it seems, melee DoT.

Lastly, your weaponskill damage will also be impacted by all of this. Hard to give good figures, but it would be significant. All in all, you are likely losing total DoT by using KC, not to mention unnecessary giving the mob more TP.

[Ezikiel]

THIS IS AN OPINION THREAD THERE IS NO RIGHT ANSWER YOU GUYS KNOW THAT RIGHT! If i use MM on my Ninja for more INT to nuke its just what i do that make what u do right or the correct way to do it. Read the thread name "What ATMA do you use"

[Superchicken]

THIS IS AN OPINION THREAD THERE IS NO RIGHT ANSWER YOU GUYS KNOW THAT RIGHT! If i use MM on my Ninja for more INT to nuke its just what i do that make what u do right or the correct way to do it. Read the thread name "What ATMA do you use"

^^ as i stated but thank you. People choose their atma for w/e reason they have.

[Mojo]

Actually, there are right answers. The original question posted was this.


Just wandering what atmas I should be using as a nin DD or tank.

He clearly wants to know which atmas are the best for the situation described. The effectiveness of certain atma in certain situations isn't a matter of opinion. The situations can be reduced down to a simple comparison of atma effectiveness. For instance, Razed Ruins is always going to be better than any other atma if you're meleeing (which you will be in the situation the OP described.)

I encourage posters to go beyond the original question and post atma combinations they use for other circumstances, but the point remains that it's most often not a matter of opinion. Someone who is knowledgeable about game mechanics and atma will be able to quantitatively explain why one atma is better than another in a situation. Often players use atma/gear combinations without going through this process and simply shirk off the atma choices of others to opinion. That doesn't mean it's a matter of opinion, it just means they haven't thought about it enough and that there is a good chance their gut instinct is wrong.

Either way, some of the atma I use for other situations.

Nuking
MM/Ultimate/Hell's Guardian (sometimes I use RR on because I'm just finishing the mob off for Azure and RR increases the speed of this process greatly)

Aeolian Edge spamming (non brew)
Gales/Ultimate/Hell's Guardian

Aeolian Edge spamming (brew)
Gales/Ultimate/Smiting Blow

[Superchicken]

tanking

I always use RR as one of my atmas for the DD aspect of it
stuff like Shiren Shadow, Cloak and Dagger, Einherjar (Sobek mostly), etc, basically w/e the situation calls for

if theres a tank and dd is more my focus

RR
Apoc, VV, alpha omega, GH, etc (GH pretty standard for me to as it works nice with RR and Blade: Hi)

I've never really set up to just nuke but stuff like

Minkin, Ultimate, MAB INT bonuses etc

[Mojo]

Atma of the Einherjar is a poor choice for Sobek, it's simply not reliable enough to be useful. You can also dodge Tyrant Tusk by moving to the side when it readies it (you need good reflexes for this.) I duo'd it with a Black Mage for most of my skins and found that if I stopped meleeing at around 35%, the Black Mage could finish it off with a volley of nukes (utilizing Enmity Douse.) So it almost never used Tyrant Tusk. I eventually switched over to Apoc on that too because in the rare situation that I was killed by Tyrant Tusk I could quickly reraise > Mijin > reraise to erase my weakness.

For tanking NMs, always RR + Gnarled Horn. The +50 AGI caps dAGI used for mob TP calculations, gives you +20% critical hit rate, and +25 evasion. Apoc can be good, depending on the NM, although sometimes I use others for a variety of reasons (unwanted quick magic procs on Ichi is really annoying.) Cloak & Dagger is useful when you want evasion & aren't completely capped on accuracy while Siren's Shadow is probably better when you don't need that accuracy.

[Ezikiel]

^^ as i stated but thank you. People choose their atma for w/e reason they have.

i was rferring to the guys going back and forth biting and scratching like little girls

[wish12oz]

Apoc, razed ruin, and gnarled horn are your best atmas for DDing, it's not a matter of opinion, math confirms it.

That being said, I do sometimes switch apoc for siren shadow or cloak and dagger because I am tanking a specific mob and like the extra evasion.

[Nattack]

It should be noted that an "opinion" is often erroneously used as an unbreakable shield against critique.

[HFX7686]

It should be noted that an "opinion" is often erroneously used as an unbreakable shield against critique.

Best quote ever.

[RaenRyong]

It should be noted that an "opinion" is often erroneously used as an unbreakable shield against critique.

THAT'S YOUR OPINION BRO

[wish12oz]

It should be noted that an "opinion" is often erroneously used as an unbreakable shield against critique.

I lul'd.
then I made my post contain at least 10 letters, so I could tell you I lul'd.

[Faule]

For dealing damage my Ninja uses: Razed Ruin/Gnarled Horn/Apoc.

For tanking my Ninja uses: The same thing as stated above.

As a tank, don't believe you aren't also a damage dealer. It's important that the 1 character who should have unfettered access to the enemy is making good use of the attention. If you are not the 1 character who is always fighting the enemy and you find you have a lot of down time, Voracious Violet may interest you. If you plan to use it for the TP regain while you aren't doing anything, I have to ask, do you bother looking around your current position for an easy enemy to kill to get 100% TP or more anyway? That simple act just may do the same thing for you without using an Atma slot.

The first atma I drop to put on mob specific atma, is Apoc. I'm a Kannagi Ninja, and during low man situations I have been known to swap Apoc for atmas with Elemental Resist +'s. Like those from Bennu/Dragua/Orthrus. I feel it increases my ease of tanking.

[vajral]

try beyond / ultimate and baying moon and you'll be a blm ;) so you won't just stand there and watch while the mages kite/nuke
go for MDB/elemental resistence and you'll laugh when you see a ga4
go for RR/GH and whatever you like to do great damage.
experiment. play.
atmas let you be situationally geared without complaining for not having 500 inventory space, and it really depends what you're fighting and what's your gear
btw, RR is a MUST 99% of the time, if you're meleeing without that you'll be disappointed

[Orenwald]

I tend to only use Razed Ruins, Gnarled Horn, and Apocalypse in 99.7% of situations.

1)RR=DEX and Crit... Are you cwazy?! :D
2)GH=AGI and Crit for my Blade: Hi (Whappah!)
2)Apoca=Because I die a lot. It's how I roll xD

[Zad]

Im in a pet LS and 80% of the time i come NIN/DNC for red on events so i have to full time Apo/Despot/RR (since half the time i take hate from super sheep) which is actually pretty nice setup for solo aswell. But when I go xp, dont have Hi yet so i just play around with RR/VV/Stout Arm, RR/Apo/AaO (which i found to be the best setup for me) or a mixture of the 2 sets w/ RR being there always. Not saying this is THE best setup but its something that works for me atm.

[ThaiChi]

I'm with the general consensus with the RR/GH/Apoc. But throughout all the abyssea I've done, the combination has changed a lot. When I only have 1 lunar abyssite it was no question, Razed Ruins was the way to go. When I got my 2nd lunar, I threw on Voracious Violet to balance out the Blade: Jin modifiers. The more I played with it I realized after Razed Ruins, the 2nd atma became situational -- if I had to tank, I needed Cloak and Dagger or Siren Shadow. Then I got 3rd abyssite and put VV back on. Yay, best of everything, Blade: Jin damage surprisingly unaffected... Then I got Apoc, and shortly after, my Kannagi and Blade: Hi. I'd determined that the crit damage bonus for RR really made up for whatever STR I had forgone from not using VV, and my evasion set was upgraded rather rapidly in the course of the last lunar abyssite and my Kannagi; enough to warrant me almost never needing to use C&D or SS (I say almost because Tunga is a pain in the ass to land hits on, as is Indrik, but I forget which one has attack and which has accuracy).

I eventually landed on Gnarled Horn for 2 reasons: the most obvious being the AGI modfier for Blade: Hi. The other being for the 20% crit rate that caps me on capped hit rate in conjunction with the 30% from RR. Apoc's instant cast is reason enough to use full time, while it is unpredictable, it has invariably saved my ass on several occasions. Always on reraise is nice because if I happen to screw up, I can Mijin and in a matter of seconds I can jump back into the fray and the only cost to MP (if that even matters) is the cost to put up haste, shell and protect back on me, which I can't do myself. And no mage can ever tell me that I should always carry my own reraise scroll/earring/hairpin, I do anyway, but its nice to not have to spend gil for those items.

The combination of those 3 atmas turns my equip setup into a flurry of Katanas much like hundred fists but faster because of the high % of double attack from /war, atheling, epona's, twilight belt, brutal. Tack on the reported 15% triple attack and my attack rate turns into what my LS mates have referred to as "seizuring". But really what really changed the way I approached NIN is the aftermath from Kannagi. I find myself building a level 3 aftermath and just riding the autoattack. ODD procs on crit damage are sweet, and for the most part, it looks almost like I have hundred fists and mighty strikes on.

[Auredant]

I think the norm is RR, GH and Apoc....but i've thrown in Mounted Champion, Sanguine Scyth, 2 -pdt atmas, etc. when the situation called for it.

[exe]

Has anyone done any testing with Atma of the Omnipotent? Sadly I got it about 2 hours before servers went down and havent had a chance to do much with it. As many others have stated atma's are pretty situational but 50 dex 10% Haste and +EMN would be omewhat noteworthy it would seem to me. That is unless the haste is negated because of cap. Just curious if anyone has done any testing with this, not only for NIN but for any job.

[Catsby]

AoA is a game changer for ninja. I can't tell you how many times Quick cast kicked in at a crucial moment and how much that triple attack helps with your DoT. With just haste and berserk it's not hard to do over 20,000 damage in a minute to abyssea bosses and 30k if you burn temp items.

[wish12oz]

Has anyone done any testing with Atma of the Omnipotent? Sadly I got it about 2 hours before servers went down and havent had a chance to do much with it. As many others have stated atma's are pretty situational but 50 dex 10% Haste and +EMN would be omewhat noteworthy it would seem to me. That is unless the haste is negated because of cap. Just curious if anyone has done any testing with this, not only for NIN but for any job.

Atma haste counts as gear haste, which is stupid easy to cap, making atma haste useless.

Edit: 50 dex isnt useful either, you should have capped crit rate from dex with cruor buffs and RR, as well as capped acc. Enmity is also useless because any good ninja will cap hate within a minute or 2 from doing damage.
RR GH and Apoc are the way to go!

[exe]

yeah RR/GH/Apoc are my norm. Was holding out hope the omni haste would have gone to total cap not gear ; ;

[Belphantom]

Been using full afv3+2 gear with brutal, suppa, twilight iga neck/back and qirmiz with atmas RR VV and apoc (avg 3k jin), recently decided to drop VV and use sanguine scythe for the +30 crit dmg makes for a nice boost in dmg (on avg 4k ish jins)

edit: just saw someone say 50 dex isn't useful.... dont buy it, nin + dex = happy marriage

unless you don't like being a dd

[wish12oz]

Been using full afv3+2 gear with brutal, suppa, twilight iga neck/back and qirmiz with atmas RR VV and apoc (avg 3k jin), recently decided to drop VV and use sanguine scythe for the +30 crit dmg makes for a nice boost in dmg (on avg 4k ish jins)

edit: just saw someone say 50 dex isn't useful.... dont buy it, nin + dex = happy marriage

unless you don't like being a dd

For damage in general, Dex increases critical hit rate and acc. Both of which have a cap, both of which you will be at with cruor buffs, rr and normal average gear.

Also, Critical hit damage has a cap, 50%.
RR+SS is 60%, qirimiz tathlum is 5% and iga neck is 2%.
I'm going to assume you are smart enough to offhand kamone, which is another 10%.
You are either 17% crit damage above the cap, or 27% crit damage above the cap.

Please learn game mechanics before you try and advise other people, thanks.
RR GH and Apoc are your atmas for ninja (even without blade hi) to optimize your damage.

[Alderin]

Only been on a few Shinryu runs and none of which I have been able to proc - so AoA is out for me at the moment.

I use RR/GH/VV most of the time.. VV is the one I switch out if needed.

Sometimes throw in Impregnable Tower if I need HP
Mounted Champion if I am solo'ing /WAR. 20/tick regen is nice.
Might use an MDT atma as well depending on the nm.

They are usually reasonably situational.. Even though I don't have AoA to test, I would pretty much full time switch VV for AoA as well.

[Kuroganashi]

I got KANNAGI so it is a MUST to use GH + RR + APOC

However be also nice to have VV added to the trio to make STR+50 and Double Attack +5% as well as the 2 TP/tick Regain

4 ATMA would ROCK :D

[Juxtaposition]

If we had four atmas we still wouldn't be using VV.