The "Go Solo It" fever

[Kjara]

Okay first and foremost, this is *not* a thread to complain or troll or anything, so if you disagree with my ideas simply say so and why, without raging on me for whatever reason. This is just a topic I did discuss with friends in game lately and felt like sharing my opinion to others.
On second place, please do not use this thread to troll or complain either, I don't like that kind of stuff as it would make the thread not constructive in anyway.
And lastly, forgive my possible grammar errors, English is not my first language.

Okay so with FFXI population decreasing SE has done great things to assist the new players in achieving goals that would once require far greater numbers and longer time (like CoP, exping, and soon dynamis) and I really appreciated all of this, but I still do notice something's wrong.

Often I have to watch poor newbies getting their requests of help bashed by higher level players who will tell them to get their things done on their own, with the now abused answer "go solo it".

A fair example was this BLU newcomer who, at lv40, asked for help to go through promies so he could reach Tavnazia and try learn Refueling and other blu spells in a few levels, these were the answers he got.
"you can solo promy now lol"
"but I'm only 40"
"then grind to 60 and then go solo it"
"I would like to get Refueling before 60 if possible"
"then grind another job to 60 and then go solo it"
Am I the only one that thinks this sounds a bit wrong? And this is just one example.

Even as a high level player I have experienced this kind of treatment, in particular with VNMs. Many times I'd ask for help only to be replied with
"grind nin to 90 and go solo it"
Well, even if I had 90 nin, it is not always possible to job change. some trials require killing VNMs while equipping the choosen weapon, and what if my trial weapon doesn't allow me to go as a job that can solo the VNM?

Now this is not a thread to cuss out people who won't help out. We all pay RL money for this game and spend our real time and would like to do it while having fun, without having to costantly work for other's benefit, but the main meaning of MMORPG implies cooperation (massive multiplayer part in particular) and I feel this part of the game is being forgotten lately.

So to finally get to the point, I would like SE to find a way to incentivate people in repeating some things for a new gain, so that others can get assistance and at the same time the helpers can be rewarded with more than the simple satisfaction of helping someone in need (since sadly seems to be no longer enough for most).

SE did something like that by adding exp rewards to CoP mission BCs for those that would repeat them a long time ago. But maybe something more could be done.

An idea could be a substantial gil reward from defeating a VNM or mission BC or anything else, but I feel that would end up abused by potential RMTs.

Post any suggestion to help here, and again please no raging, I come in peace^^;

[HFX7686]

Make friends.

[rog]

I'm going to have to take the middle road here. If you have the means to solo something, then stop bothering me, and go do it. If however you are incapable of soloing something (because you don't have the job/means to do so), then by all means, ask for help.

[Cream_Soda]

I'm going to have to take the middle road here. If you have the means to solo something, then stop bothering me, and go do it. If however you are incapable of soloing something (because you don't have the job/means to do so), then by all means, ask for help.
Ok, we're done here

/thread

[Greatguardian]

I'm going to have to take the middle road here. If you have the means to solo something, then stop bothering me, and go do it. If however you are incapable of soloing something (because you don't have the job/means to do so), then by all means, ask for help.

This ^. A thousand times, this. If I enjoy your company, and you haven't worn my patience down to nothing by begging me to give you gil or help you farm yagudo necklaces or something else completely soloable, then I'll probably *want* to help you with the things you can't solo even if you don't ask.

[Yopop]

I'm going to have to take the road Rog is on in this.

If you can solo something or "should" be able to solo something then attempt to try it out. It's how we learn to master our jobs and our skills. The worst thing that can happen is you die.

If you are unable to solo something by all means there are a couple thousand people on the server and I am sure someone will assist in the situation.

there is not 1 person that has walked in FFXI and not had someone assist them with something. I do agree that we pay RL money and use our time and thus some can't be bothered to assist, but there are also tons of people out there that pay real life money and totally enjoy helping if they actually know are in need. I actually spend more time now a days helping people get stuff then i do getting my own stuff lol

A tip for the BLU

When I started there were FAR greater amounts of JPN players versus NA players. We got flooded with "JPN ONLY" tells, messages, and comments. Being apart of a small group of players who wanted to level during JPN Prime we found ourselves having to sit and wait and wait to get help on things. I found a neat trick. I would /sea all and filter to the zone I needed something from and I would see people in the zone and I'd go to that zone and ask the people in the zone if they could assist.

Things change when your standing there and someone is doing something in that region or with those mobs or even those missions and allow you to tag along or join in :)

That's how I got a LOT of stuff done in my career in the game. Persistence pays off.

[JagerForrester]

A fair example was this BLU newcomer who, at lv40, asked for help to go through promies so he could reach Tavnazia and try learn Refueling and other blu spells in a few levels, these were the answers he got.
"you can solo promy now lol"
"but I'm only 40"
"then grind to 60 and then go solo it"
"I would like to get Refueling before 60 if possible"
"then grind another job to 60 and then go solo it"
Am I the only one that thinks this sounds a bit wrong? And this is just one example.

This is a prime example how sometimes people can be really unfriendly. No one said making friends was easy. But Yopop had a very intelligent plan to get what he needed. I know I've been willing to help players in need if I am in a situation where I can help them very easily and doesn't require much effort on my part.

[Vangoh]

I'm not here to troll or anything but the reason why it gets harder to get help is because there are barely any new players, not like before. So now is harder to make friends and because of that is harder to have people that actually help you. I got over 40 people in friend list and most of them have quit and only 4 or 5 people will be there to help me from time to time.

Now, the truth of the matter is that people are very selfish and trust me you're not the first one to think this way, that people don't help anymore because people have ALWAYS been like this since way back in 2004 when I started playing. This is nothing new seriously.

About what you said of rewarding people for helping, I'm not sure if that's gonna cut it so my suggestion is to unite players, this is a good thread to post this idea I've thought for a while.

I always wanted to add something to let them socialize and get to know each other. It may sound very cliche but there should be like bars or something like that, back then before COP there weren't many places to go so I would wonder "what's with the outposts? are there people in there or what? would be nice to go inside and take a break from the fights and talk to people and whatever.

Another idea, and as silly as it sounds I think people would be interested in an alternate way of skilling up. So I thought some sort of gym would be perfect to know people and polish your skills. There are some jobs (mostly mages) that have problems skilling up their weapons and magic skills without worrying they're gonna get killed by the mob they're trying to skill up. It doesn't HAVE to be a gym, it can also be a boot camp during the shadow era and join the soldiers/knights/warlocks/rogues to boot camp. All that while talking with people.

YES it is hard to get things accomplish things because you need help, but there are going to be people that won't comply to help you no matter what you tell them or offer them and is not like you can force them. I tried to be as constructive as possible.

[Superbeast]

Personally I have always wanted to be able to solo anything/everything since I started playing several years ago for the simple fact that sometimes you cant get the help or items needed without RMT for gil to pay people ridiculous amounts(which I don't do btw). There are events in the game that would be nice to (solo) fit into a busy schedule (work and RL) for instance; Kirin, dynamis, bcnm's, ksnm's, vnm's, etc... I love playing this game despite certain people that sometimes make it difficult, but there comes a time when the multi-player aspect needs to take a back seat for those who want to achieve "end game" (if nothing else than to say I've done it and by myself since I couldn't get help).

Some my disagree and that's fine, but those are usually the ones that have the time to play to achieve groups for items/missions/whatever. So all we can really do is wait until everything is solo/duoable.

[katoplepa]

"solo" is fun, I've learned a lot of my jobs when I tried to solo something : pay attention to gear, strategy, timing, what to do, when, where... sometimes I died and retry, when I won it was adrenalin and satisfaction!

anyway, if you need help, it's better go to the place you have to do your stuff and find some help there, on the field, asking people in the zone, instead of remaining in jeuno and polemize in LS because maybe you just popped, pretending people stop to do their pt/aby/things and run to help you. Or simply ask : when you finished your thing, can you help me? or tomorrow this time? it's more easy to find help in this way.

[KorPoni]

I've noticed alot of people pay gil to get help. That's a straight out help right there. Offer enough for the help, then task complete. Although, for me, I did what yopop mentioned on alot of my characters, if I was in the zone, I asked people that were in the zone for help. If they didn't help, I'd just go do something else that I could do solo for awhile, and try again later. If you're stuck to where you can't move forward, like kazham keys, farm while you wait. There's many creative answers to getting the help you need.

However, none of anyone's answers seem to be putting this thread to use. You're wanting answers of what SE could do about it to see it happen. For early game, I don't see any real answers. But, let's say you're after specific bcnm drops. It would encourage people to utilize them if there was a set gil reward, so they know they're getting a reward each time they do it, even if they're trying over and over for a drop for YOU and not really aiming for anything for themselves.

Then, VNMs, gil drops, or certain nice equipment drops that are 100% droprate, would make those nice to do, even if the players just want to NPC them for the gil. What are some other areas you are wanting to look more into?

[Sovereign]

You've gotta realize that FFXI is a MMO... the whole idea behind it in the first place is multiplayer, and beyond that it's forming bonds with the people you play with. I figure that's the entire reason we have linkshells. I've known and played with the same group of people for many years. I know their real names, where they live, seen pictures of them, heard their voices on Ventrilo... even actually met a few. I'd go as far as to say some of these people may know me better than many of my real life friends. And because of those bonds I've created with other players, I've since never had an issue finding assistance for the things I want to do in game.

Players arent just going to come out of nowhere to help you unless you have a common goal. On the same hand, random people you see walking down the street arent going to go out of their way to help you, either. The idea behind this is you need to create friends first, and then your friends will bend over backwards and take time out of their schedules to help you out. Then you must reciprocate the favor. Thats what friends are for.

No one can really teach you how to make friends with other people. You've gotta do that on your own. But other people can offer advice, and I'll try to give you some now that might help you out with finding a group.

> Join a linkshell, and be sociable.
If you're a new player that has yet to achieve a high level, chances are you're going to end up in a social linkshell. All you can really do is be sociable, and of course the same set of social rules apply here as they do in real life. You wouldnt walk into a bar full of people you dont know and start acting a fool, talking shit to people, and being downright ridiculous. You'd get your ass kicked lol so just because you're behind a keyboard doesnt change the game.

> When you're ready, join an event linkshell, and do what you can to participate.
Being sociable is fine, but nothing creates bonds between players like doing something together. Any decent linkshell should never exclude anyone wearing their pearl, so this is your doorway into a group that can help you. An added bonus is that most event linkshells these days utilize a voice server, such as Ventrilo, and being able to put a voice to the characters you play with is an exceptional way to learn who these people are, and for them to learn about you.

> Avoid having multiple linkshells.
I know some players may disagree with this, but I think it's a key factor in building relationships with other players. Think of it kind of like your local bar... If you show up to the same place every day to hang out, people there will begin to know you. They'll know your favorite drink, what channel to turn the TV to, or even what you're going to order off the menu. But if you split yourself up, and go to different bars all the time... you'll always be anonymous.

> Give it time.
Just because you've got a pearl to a linkshell doesn't really make you a member of the group, if you know what I mean. You need to build trust with the people in your linkshell, and many times sacrifice the things you want for the things they want. Spend time with them, make friends and help them do things, and they'll return the favor when you ask. Thats what friends are for.

> Form smaller statics for common goals.
Event linkshells that work on the alliance level can sometimes be overwhelming... there are just so many people you dont always get the opportunity to really work closely with a few players. Outside of your event times, try creating smaller groups with a common interest. For instance, you can create a group that might Salvage together. Or maybe create a group that'll explore the storyline missions together. The game has enough content that I'm sure you can find a million things to do with other players that will benefit everyone involved.

[Greatguardian]

Biggest piece of advice I can give anyone new seeking help for things:

Never, ever start off asking for help on smaller things while you're idling in a city. If it's something that can potentially be completed solo, try to do it before asking others for help. If you fail once, don't give up right away. Many of the older FFXI players have gone through some incredibly frustrating times in this game, and we've all pushed through them. Personally, I've gone 1/100+ on multiple NM drops, and instead of begging people for gil to buy the AH-able version or trying to get others to camp with me, I simply kept at it until I got a drop. Old players love seeing this kind of dedication.

Don't expect your hand to be held. There are a lot of nice players out there, more than many people give credit for. But many players are sick of people expecting them to do everything for them. Be as self reliant as possible. Visit community sites and *read* before posting. Use resources like ffxiah and ffxiclopedia for basic information. If a mission walkthrough is unclear, and you've read it and are unable to find a cutscene or something, feel free to ask about it. If you haven't even looked up the mission you want to do, and want me to guide you through it step by step, I'm sorry but I'll pass - I've done it hundreds of times already and my head will explode if I have to do it again.

Show initiative, dedication, and self-reliance, and you'll find more help when you don't ask for it than you would have if you had asked. Older players know what is beyond your ability to do, and what is not. If we did it years ago at your level, chances are you can do it now. If we know it's highly unlikely you can beat something at your level but you're trying anyways and not giving up, well you'll find me sending you a party invite before you know it.

[Flunklesnarkin]

It's not anything new.. game has been like this a long time.. majority of people aren't helpful..

Big reason my first job was bst lol.. by the time i started playing everybody was lvl 75 and fully merited.. nobody wanted a noob around to leech >_>

Game really is a loooot easier tho....

Only time i see people getting shit and being told to solo something is when they should 99% for sure be able to solo it...

lot of the mission fights you can toss a jugpet and afk if you are lvl 90.. helped friend out with the windurst rank 10 fight like that a few weeks ago.

Done the Cop Airship fight (both of them) like that multiple times since they uncapped it. (easy 1500 exp )

I'll try to convince somebody to solo something sometimes to show them they are capable of it.. and i'll help after if they fail fail for some reason

[Yopop]

I want to reply to the "Social" aspect that a lot of people are repeating over and over.

Back in the day before all this speed leveling you go to know people through experience parties. There are very few of those now a days compared to what was.

Socialization here is very hard. People log in and do everything so quickly that names pass like ships in the night and you think you know the name or it looks familiar, but you can't remember.

I was lucky, before CoP we had a lot of great places to experience, then CoP came out and we had even more, and so on. Even when ToAU was introduced it was faster experience but the parties still lasted long enough to learn player styles and something about people.

With this Abyssea it's go from entering the zone and people do not really party they just run in and click and attack a mob. There's no funny lil things that happen, no mistakens that wipe the whole party that gives you something to talk about for the next hour because Exp was so slow and boring :)

Abyssea really did a lot of damage to the social aspect of exp parties. It takes no skill or effort in Abyssea and thus people just drone their way through it. After 45 minutes they end up losing their attention and they stand around or leave

[Kjara]

Yeah I agree making friends is harder nowadays due to new game mechanics, I'm lucky I got most of my stuff done pre-level cap. But here I'm talking about mostly newcomers that join the game and then quit in a few weeks because they won't feel welcome. This is why I'm not telling anyone to dedicate to babysitting more, but maybe add more things to help socialize more would help. The boot camp and OP 'hostel' idea was good, but I don't think SE will do something so drastic as introducing totally new areas just to chatter (nor I feel most of people would welcome it either, sadly). But I'm sure an option would be found to help people find the assistance that eventually we all need in a MMORPG. If nothing really can help revive exp parties, then maybe something can be done in some other field. Like, introduce skill ups in campaign battle (I realize this would put Besieged attendance on the brink but I can't really find another idea to help campaign battles revive) and set it so that those with allied tags are automatically put in party/alliance together.
People are too afraid of running into morons to try socialize. I've seen too many people saying stuff like: "Ugh he's rank 1 I won't invite him." "Gimp gear, must be new." "Have you looked at their subjob? We can't trust him to be our healer." etc...
There's a difference between newbie and noob and people often forget it. Noob is he who knows but will refuse to learn (the rdm who will keep spamming dia on slept mobs to skill up even when told not to.)
Newbie is he who just joined the game and has yet to learn how things work. We have all been through that and should try to not be afraid of new people. If approached nicely and assisted, these people could turn into great players that will return the favor one day.

[Frost]

"Go Solo it" is the new "Google it"

SO tired of googleing stuff only to get results that are forum posts titled EXACTLY what I am looking for, only to find someone asking the same question I am, and the only response being "Google it".

But that's neither here, nor there.
Carry on.

[rog]

"Go Solo it" is the new "Google it"

SO tired of googleing stuff only to get results that are forum posts titled EXACTLY what I am looking for, only to find someone asking the same question I am, and the only response being "Google it".

But that's neither here, nor there.
Carry on.lern2google? 99.99% of the time you can easily find an answer to a question faster by using google than you could by asking on some forums.

[Frost]

lern2google? 99.99% of the time you can easily find an answer to a question faster by using google than you could by asking on some forums.

Reread what I posted. I believe you missed the part where I said:


"Go Solo it" is the new "Google it"

SO tired of googleing stuff only to get results that are forum posts titled EXACTLY what I am looking for, only to find someone asking the same question I am, and the only response being "Google it".

But that's neither here, nor there.
Carry on.

[Tezz]

"Go Solo it" is the new "Google it"

SO tired of googleing stuff only to get results that are forum posts titled EXACTLY what I am looking for, only to find someone asking the same question I am, and the only response being "Google it".

But that's neither here, nor there.
Carry on.

It's also along the lines of "Wiki it". It's hard to get direct information from someone these days because we rely on the internet to the point that we do not retain the information ourselves. It's that and laziness.
If you ask a LS member for some information they try to shrug it off by making you rely on something else because they may have forgotten a small piece of that information that could be crucial (like, wait until next gameday etc).

The easiest way around this is to try to be hostile and make the person seem unacknowledged on the matter. This typically challenges them to "look it up" themselves and from that point on, they will parrot the information back to you.

And then you don't have to alt-tab and look it up yourself!

[Krystal]

lets see here....1.....2....3....4.....5....yep...5 of the replied here are people in other threads who'd rather have it easy as pie..so their comments mean nothing here.:) if you sent me a tell on my server asking for help about 98.8% ofd the time i'd be more than willing to help and requiring no gil at all to boot as long as i wasn't busy with something else at that particular time and even if i was i'd simply ask if you could wait till i was done then i'd help you. the idea of "paying gill" is retarded...stupid...and greedy....as my phrase goes when i PL players on my sch" Power leveling players is a Kindness, not a business."

[Greatguardian]

lets see here....1.....2....3....4.....5....yep...5 of the replied here are people in other threads who'd rather have it easy as pie..so their comments mean nothing here.:) if you sent me a tell on my server asking for help about 98.8% ofd the time i'd be more than willing to help and requiring no gil at all to boot as long as i wasn't busy with something else at that particular time and even if i was i'd simply ask if you could wait till i was done then i'd help you. the idea of "paying gill" is retarded...stupid...and greedy....as my phrase goes when i PL players on my sch" Power leveling players is a Kindness, not a business."

Are you including me? I felt my advice was fairly solid, and a good way to get on the good side of most of the disillusioned old school players. None of us want to repeat the same 5-1 mission walkthrough for the 5,000th time when there's a wiki for it, nor do we want to farm yagudo necklaces for someone when they're easily soloable. Teaching someone self-reliance early on is a great way to be more successful later. I've had far too many experiences with players that my friends would spoil, helping with anything and everything, who pretty much never left Jeuno unless they had 1 or more 75s with them to do everything for them. That's not healthy for anyone involved. High level players get annoyed, and low level players don't learn how to do things for themselves.

The easiest way to earn my respect is to get things done when I'm not there to help. A friend of mine came back to the game a couple weeks ago, having Rdm and Rng at 75, no gear, and no gil (he gave it away ages ago when he quit). After he bought Abyssea, he told me he wanted to take his THF from 65-90. I took him out to Aby-Attohwa and solo'd some Dom ops for him, got him 65-90 and got all his Genkais done in a couple of hours. Aside from getting him Razed Ruins, that's about all he needed my help with. After that, he went out, used the Dominion Notes I got him to buy some augmented Daggers, skilled up everything to cap, unlocked and killed his WSNMs, got a Swift belt and Raparee harness, and farmed up a couple mil in gil to cover the basic gear he was missing. I was not there for any of that, and he didn't need me to be. Now, when he actually does need my help for something (Turul, AF3, etc), I'm more than willing to drop what I'm doing and head over because I know he's responsible enough to contribute to the fight, rather than cheer from the sidelines.

[Krystal]

Are you including me? I felt my advice was fairly solid, and a good way to get on the good side of most of the disillusioned old school players. None of us want to repeat the same 5-1 mission walkthrough for the 5,000th time when there's a wiki for it, nor do we want to farm yagudo necklaces for someone when they're easily soloable. Teaching someone self-reliance early on is a great way to be more successful later. I've had far too many experiences with players that my friends would spoil, helping with anything and everything, who pretty much never left Jeuno unless they had 1 or more 75s with them to do everything for them. That's not healthy for anyone involved. High level players get annoyed, and low level players don't learn how to do things for themselves.

The easiest way to earn my respect is to get things done when I'm not there to help. A friend of mine came back to the game a couple weeks ago, having Rdm and Rng at 75, no gear, and no gil (he gave it away ages ago when he quit). After he bought Abyssea, he told me he wanted to take his THF from 65-90. I took him out to Aby-Attohwa and solo'd some Dom ops for him, got him 65-90 and got all his Genkais done in a couple of hours. Aside from getting him Razed Ruins, that's about all he needed my help with. After that, he went out, used the Dominion Notes I got him to buy some augmented Daggers, skilled up everything to cap, unlocked and killed his WSNMs, got a Swift belt and Raparee harness, and farmed up a couple mil in gil to cover the basic gear he was missing. I was not there for any of that, and he didn't need me to be. Now, when he actually does need my help for something (Turul, AF3, etc), I'm more than willing to drop what I'm doing and head over because I know he's responsible enough to contribute to the fight, rather than cheer from the sidelines.

no. not including you.

[Rambus]

I want to comment on this "solo aspect" that got me upset. I am working on something that I have trobble getting help with so I try to join la thene abyssea exp parties, get key items from gold chests and brew the NM I want. Recenetly someone was walking the same path I was and asked if i would join him when he is at that point. I said yes. The other day we where killing NM for key item and after the first kill he said i rather solo. I kept asking what do you mean? me personally I would rather go slower at something and do it with someone then speed though it soloing. so yeah that got me very upset.

I hate soloing, i am more of a people person, that is the idea of being on an online game, is it not? if so much stuff wants to be solo why not make offline version of FFXI?

I also hate the go wiki it. I was under the effect of brew killing a NM when someone sent me a tell do not kill a martello it spits out endless mobs and they dont want it kicking the loot. ( something to that effect) after I asked I have no idea what they where talking about they tell me to go wiki it.

how can i wiki something I do not even know what to look for? I did not understand at all what he was talking about.

A person I do not know well ( very famoius being know as a "tool" or a con artist sent me a tell asking to come proc thier yellow as blu. I said yes and asked if i could lot PLD seal, i mean they are rushing me out there and I do not even know them. They never answered me. So i get there waching them fail at this NM and zombing it (i ended up dieing a few times my self) and it drops a PLD seal. So i lotted it and get kicked.

Dispite being told they acted like that I gave them a chance anyway, so now I am just conferming what they do to people. I'm sure the person dont have meny friends now.

[Runespider]

FFXI has always been touted as a game with an amazingly good community, the reason for that is because there are many things you need help with. The community was built out of necessity, so be nice to people even if your an ass**** irl, help people with stuff and try make friends..that way when you want help there is more chance you will get it.

[Kjara]

I hope you aren't addressing to me with that post, because I do help people plenty and do have friends (even though most of them just live in abyssea like it could disappear from game the next day), my post is totally unpersonal, where I show my concern for all the new players that get demotivated and quit (as I stated in my previous posts).

[Rambus]

I hope you aren't addressing to me with that post, because I do help people plenty and do have friends (even though most of them just live in abyssea like it could disappear from game the next day), my post is totally unpersonal, where I show my concern for all the new players that get demotivated and quit (as I stated in my previous posts).

what post is that post exactly?

[Kjara]

I said it in post #16, and was answering to runespider's last post.

[Izzybella]

My sig says it for me :)

[JagerForrester]

To the posters who gave advice. /applaud +2
There's almost nothing that can't be wiki'd when it comes to FFXIclopedia.com. Once you know how to use the search engine, finding answers is as easy as following clues on what you're trying to accomplish. Want to know how to get your Atma of the Voracious Violet? Search "Atma" or "Atma of the Voracious Violet." Clicking where it comes from, then how to get to that monster and how to kill it are filled with tons of information. I don't recommend "Googling It" when there's something so much more precise than the internet as a whole.

[Superbeast]

There are definitely a lot of ways to look for information on what your trying to do, ffxiclopedia.com is a great source, not meaning to go off on a tangent but I would like to address the "MMORPG" thing. No where in the word or the definition does it say co-op ( Massively multi-player online role-playing game ) it does imply that people interact with each other and peoples perception on that is their own. Sorry to get off subject, but if you are having trouble with getting and item/quest whatever due to lack of help best advice as others have said is to try and make a couple of friends and join a linkshell. Or come back in a few years when it will more than likely be solo-able. If your ever on Siren look me up, I'm in a linkshell and as long as you aren't rude i'll give you a pearl, If I have the time I will help with what I can.

[Chronofantasy]

I think this is why a lot of people often will spend an extra $13 a month to create an extra account and buy another copy of FFXI for a different system and level an alt character to assist their main character to help them on certain stuff. But I like your idea for incentives for people to help a person with something for those who normally don't help unless there's something in it for them. Some people offer gil as a reward for people helping but not everyone is rich enough to offer a reward. For those that do need an incentive to help I have a little bit of an idea of what SE can maybe do to give players that incentive to help.

SE can make some sort of helper or assist point system where a player gets one point everytime they help someone with something. A NPC can be placed in all cities and the helper has to get an item from the NPC that they can use to multiply the item and trade to the person they're helping out to hold onto. There can be different help categories like quests, notorious monsters, missions, etc. from the help NPC and while the person that is being helped with is fighting the monster or doing the quest, that person can use the item on the monster or trade the item to the NPC to get some kind of imprint on the item. (Maybe a soulplate can somehow be involved to capture an image or something) The NPC/Monster or player's name is then imprinted on the item and the person being helped trades the item back to the helper and the helper can trade the imprinted item back to the NPC for their point reward.

As for the rewards, the rewards can be very good rewards like something almost like twilight gear or something that players will really want to go after.

I don't know if this sort of system will work or can be done but let's say you need 100 points for a really good piece of gear or item, then that gives you 100 reasons to help 100 different people and a lot of people can get the help they need and people won't have to worry about never finding anyone to help them.

[Superbeast]

I think this is why a lot of people often will spend an extra $13 a month to create an extra account and buy another copy of FFXI for a different system and level an alt character to assist their main character to help them on certain stuff. But I like your idea for incentives for people to help a person with something for those who normally don't help unless there's something in it for them. Some people offer gil as a reward for people helping but not everyone is rich enough to offer a reward. For those that do need an incentive to help I have a little bit of an idea of what SE can maybe do to give players that incentive to help.

SE can make some sort of helper or assist point system where a player gets one point everytime they help someone with something. A NPC can be placed in all cities and the helper has to get an item from the NPC that they can use to multiply the item and trade to the person they're helping out to hold onto. There can be different help categories like quests, notorious monsters, missions, etc. from the help NPC and while the person that is being helped with is fighting the monster or doing the quest, that person can use the item on the monster or trade the item to the NPC to get some kind of imprint on the item. (Maybe a soulplate can somehow be involved to capture an image or something) The NPC/Monster or player's name is then imprinted on the item and the person being helped trades the item back to the helper and the helper can trade the imprinted item back to the NPC for their point reward.

As for the rewards, the rewards can be very good rewards like something almost like twilight gear or something that players will really want to go after.

I don't know if this sort of system will work or can be done but let's say you need 100 points for a really good piece of gear or item, then that gives you 100 reasons to help 100 different people and a lot of people can get the help they need and people won't have to worry about never finding anyone to help them.

I really like the basis of this, help point base system, with the equivalent or better of rewards ex: twilight gear. People would be falling had over foot to help people, just one problem, what happens when everybody is helped or only help those they want for personal gain. The Idea is splendid and well worth looking into but needs to be well thought about before its put into action. Excellent post Chrono.

[KorPoni]

Maybe a point system where you can select NMs, quests, or Missions you've completed/beaten already that have a fight, and you're considered to have completed the prerequisits of the mission. Maybe kind of like the hunt registry, where you forfit any chance of reward for the points. I have a good feeling alot of people would not only be given incentive to help people, but to complete missions, quests, bcnms, and NM hunts so that they can get the helping points.

I love your idea, and options on it can definitely be explored.

[Wojo]

I play with friends to have fun, I solo to hoard loot. Personally, I see nothing wrong with hangin out in linkshell to socialize while soloing in the game. In fact, I prefer it :)

[katoplepa]

sometimes , it can happen to be unhappy to help someone new on your Ls , someone maybe who pop in Ls in the middle of an event (and all the others are already in fight) and start to blame because he needs to do some mission and no-one help him (in that right moment) .... I think this happened to all of you ... or more : someone new on your Ls, maybe low level, you help him A LOT to level up, he saying "when I will be 75 I will join linkshell events and I will help back" and when hit 75 he says goodbye and switch to an Hnmls ... these things happened a lot... so, if you need help, it's not only the others who have to help you, but you also have to be in a certain way of respect when/how ask help...

[Kjara]

I really like the help points idea, it sounds like something Mentor Recruitment NPC could do.

[Seriha]

People aren't really helpful to strangers because there's largely been a lack of incentive to do so. Exceptions are involved if you by chance need the same thing, but that's pretty much a case of mutual back scratching.

Back in the day, you'd see few willing to go back and redo CoP missions. The cost of medicines, EXP loss on failure, and the often long trudges through remote locations weren't exactly conducive to risk-taking. So, this basically devolved into people accepting cookie-cutter set ups for PUGs and if you weren't one of the in jobs, tough luck. Fortunately, the cap increase and lifting of restrictions helped to alleviate this issue, but even before that you could see SE maybe took the hint that a lack of reward wasn't helping things, so you got the meager EXP payment for helpers. Definitely a case of far too little, though.

Fast forward to today and while you might have some issues getting boss or caturae clears for Abyssea, it's not nearly as unrelenting. Finding assistance for more mundane activities like magian trials can be a chore, though. In the past on Alla I made a request thread asking for a system of "Kupo Points" where, if helping someone on a trial you're not on yourself, you're given credit to invest on your own needs. For kills, this could mean every 5 you get for someone could become a credit for 1 kill on another trial. 30 could possibly be an Empyrean seal or weapon item like Mikey's Nugget. 50 could be an AF+2 item while 100/125/150 could go toward the respective Empyrean weapon tier items.

Personally, I've never been a fan of throwing gil at a problem. "Helpers" can ask unreasonable prices, and odds are if you're having a rough time doing one thing, making good cash fast isn't really on your plate, either. I can't recall what the census called the average gil gain for a player was, but I don't think it was terribly high. 500k per person, if not willing to split, isn't reasonable for something as an example.

Meanwhile, making friends isn't as easy as it sounds, either. A lot of "end game" shells close themselves off, and the shrinking of required bodies for things hasn't really encouraged recruitment for new blood while even in-shell people break off into little cliques. While PUGs still get things done, you're often at the mercy of finding others who need the same thing at the same time you're playing who happen to be in the same zone you're shouting for help with.

Actually, I guess that leads into the game needing a global chat channel so people looking for help can find it more easily. It'll just need a broadcast timer to keep spam to a minimum and possible GM supervision to keep flame wars down and the channel serving its purpose.

[Virjunior]

Googling normally leads you to the appropriate wiki page more quickly. Wiki takes a while to load...too many graphics.

[Superchicken]

Couple things i'll give my opinion on. Some said something about having multiple linkshells. This can hurt you chance of getting help or not. I'll give an example. There's people who have a pearl to the linkshell i'm in and the only time you see them in linkshell is when they want something, and here's how it typically goes

X player pops in linkshell

X: "hey linkshell can anyone help me with blah blah blah"
linkshell members usually dont respond cause this person is notorious for this, or will simply say "i can't i'm busy doing this"

It becomes very apparent and even the least intelligent person catches on to trends like this. If you are only popping in the linkshell to ask for help most likely you won't get any, at least from me you won't.

I've been playing the game for a long time and have made some bonds with people over the years who I know I can always count on for some help. Yeah I don't expect them to drop what they are doing to come help me, nor do i hope they expect the same thing. So recently my thing is that i've been building popsets for abyssea NM's for gear i need by myself. So what i typically do is use my mule to build a popset as well. Now usually if i say to a friend, "hey i got this pop set for this NM and need a little help killing it" they'll come help since all we have to do is go in and kill it and no farm KI's. Sometimes people even friends need a little incentive, so when i was doing sobeks i for kannagi i would build two popsets then i'd get a couple people to help and let them lot on the +2 mats while i took the skins. And sometimes i'd say he i have two popsets for sobek, can you come help me kill it, i'm gonna take at least 1 stone of balance but you can have the rest. And then i've got friends how i know i can ask for help who dont need anything in return for helping cause they know i'll return the favor when they need help.

One thing I try to do is if someone needs help and i'm not doing something (referring to some random person shouting for help) I'll go help them, in returns that they'll remember me helping them so when they see me shouting for help for something it will ring a bell "hey that guy helped me out before, I'll go help him out." Sometimes it pays off but most of the time it doesn't but meh.

You'll always run across those "well what's in it for me" type of people. Can't really do anything about that. But you'll find a few people who will help you out just to help you out.

I'll admit when i see someone on level 90 w/e job shouting for help on something you know they can solo with no problems its kind of irritating and of course you gonna have people telling them to go solo it. it's like the same people who shout things like "who do i talk to to start X quest" you will get those answering with "look it up on wiki."

Easiest way to get help is to make a few friends and help each other, cause shouting in PJ or wherever will most likely get you responses like "go solo it", no response at all, or something like "what you haven't finished CoP yet", or many other flame on responses. The you scratch my back i'll scratch yours method works most of the time. Setting up a day and time with someone to help you on whatever you need works pretty good cause then your helper can prepare for it cause its hard to get people to drop what they are doing sometimes to help you out, so if they know ahead of time they have something to do with you it turns out better.

[Superchicken]

People aren't really helpful to strangers because there's largely been a lack of incentive to do so. Exceptions are involved if you by chance need the same thing, but that's pretty much a case of mutual back scratching.

Back in the day, you'd see few willing to go back and redo CoP missions. The cost of medicines, EXP loss on failure, and the often long trudges through remote locations weren't exactly conducive to risk-taking. So, this basically devolved into people accepting cookie-cutter set ups for PUGs and if you weren't one of the in jobs, tough luck. Fortunately, the cap increase and lifting of restrictions helped to alleviate this issue, but even before that you could see SE maybe took the hint that a lack of reward wasn't helping things, so you got the meager EXP payment for helpers. Definitely a case of far too little, though.

Fast forward to today and while you might have some issues getting boss or caturae clears for Abyssea, it's not nearly as unrelenting. Finding assistance for more mundane activities like magian trials can be a chore, though. In the past on Alla I made a request thread asking for a system of "Kupo Points" where, if helping someone on a trial you're not on yourself, you're given credit to invest on your own needs. For kills, this could mean every 5 you get for someone could become a credit for 1 kill on another trial. 30 could possibly be an Empyrean seal or weapon item like Mikey's Nugget. 50 could be an AF+2 item while 100/125/150 could go toward the respective Empyrean weapon tier items.

Personally, I've never been a fan of throwing gil at a problem. "Helpers" can ask unreasonable prices, and odds are if you're having a rough time doing one thing, making good cash fast isn't really on your plate, either. I can't recall what the census called the average gil gain for a player was, but I don't think it was terribly high. 500k per person, if not willing to split, isn't reasonable for something as an example.

Meanwhile, making friends isn't as easy as it sounds, either. A lot of "end game" shells close themselves off, and the shrinking of required bodies for things hasn't really encouraged recruitment for new blood while even in-shell people break off into little cliques. While PUGs still get things done, you're often at the mercy of finding others who need the same thing at the same time you're playing who happen to be in the same zone you're shouting for help with.

Actually, I guess that leads into the game needing a global chat channel so people looking for help can find it more easily. It'll just need a broadcast timer to keep spam to a minimum and possible GM supervision to keep flame wars down and the channel serving its purpose.

i like the global chat channel idea, wouldn't need a gm to supervise it, you just blist the ignorants who will come in there just to spam.

[Dallas]

I like helping people because I usually can find something I can benefit from as well. My only concern is when I join a Salvage static that morphs into a complete Mythic weapon static.

[Vinceroth]

i like SE's idea of making many things/aspects in the game soloable. there are many other things like dyna, salvage, sky, sea etc that would be wonderful to be able to solo for the reason that no one really wants to help anyone anymore. many of the players are all centered around the end game content, and now that you can jump from 30-90 in an extremely small amount of time, there's even less people that will help bc they're focused on the aby items. in my opinion, SE should make a large amount of the game solo friendly for that reason, but at the same time, to keep the aspect of grouping, lower the drop rates on anything you solo. like lets take kirin, used to be it would take larger numbers to kill, and now with the cap at 90, and all the OP gear/weapons, you can low man it, but what about the people that can't spend the time to gather up 6 people to kill him? or better yet, the mythic weapons, what if someone can't get a handful of people to spend months on end to dedicate themselves to getting it? SE should imploy a method of taking kirin, or mythic weapon aquiring, and base the drop rates on how many people are fighting/engaged in the enemy. if 1 person takes action against the monster then drop rate will be lowered, and difficulty will be lowered to match the 1 person, but if lets say 2 or more take action, then the drop rate increase and the monsters difficulty will increase to match...just things like that would make it much easier on the people that love the game, but lack the time to dedicate to an end game ls

[Sleven]

This may have been said previously on this thread but I am tired and really don't feel like reading all of the pages of posts.

I have experienced the same thing with the "Go solo It" fever. I noticed some ppl that said "Get a linkshell that will help." This is an excellent idea. Although most ls are interested in the goals of the majority. Not each individual member. Unless of course you could get some friends inside the ls. However, more often than not the people who consider your "ls friends" are only there to get you to help them and then bail w/o helping you.

The sad fact is that. In order for you to get help you will have to pay for it. Unless, as said in the begining post, SE offers some kind of incentive program to get other to help out.

That being said. My name is Slevenkelevra, I play on Phoenix and if you need any help with stuff and are tired of shitheads saying "Go solo it" drop me a tell. I WILL HELP you out on w/e you need most day. I only ask that you are around to help me out when I need it.

Maybe with 1 person like me helping out someone it will catch on and we will make a better game experience for all.

[Krystal]

To the posters who gave advice. /applaud +2
There's almost nothing that can't be wiki'd when it comes to FFXIclopedia.com. Once you know how to use the search engine, finding answers is as easy as following clues on what you're trying to accomplish. Want to know how to get your Atma of the Voracious Violet? Search "Atma" or "Atma of the Voracious Violet." Clicking where it comes from, then how to get to that monster and how to kill it are filled with tons of information. I don't recommend "Googling It" when there's something so much more precise than the internet as a whole.

"wiki it" is the new "Google it" when it comes to FFXI......wow...that's sad.....>.>;

[Superbeast]

i like SE's idea of making many things/aspects in the game soloable. there are many other things like dyna, salvage, sky, sea etc that would be wonderful to be able to solo for the reason that no one really wants to help anyone anymore. many of the players are all centered around the end game content, and now that you can jump from 30-90 in an extremely small amount of time, there's even less people that will help bc they're focused on the aby items. in my opinion, SE should make a large amount of the game solo friendly for that reason, but at the same time, to keep the aspect of grouping, lower the drop rates on anything you solo. like lets take kirin, used to be it would take larger numbers to kill, and now with the cap at 90, and all the OP gear/weapons, you can low man it, but what about the people that can't spend the time to gather up 6 people to kill him? or better yet, the mythic weapons, what if someone can't get a handful of people to spend months on end to dedicate themselves to getting it? SE should imploy a method of taking kirin, or mythic weapon aquiring, and base the drop rates on how many people are fighting/engaged in the enemy. if 1 person takes action against the monster then drop rate will be lowered, and difficulty will be lowered to match the 1 person, but if lets say 2 or more take action, then the drop rate increase and the monsters difficulty will increase to match...just things like that would make it much easier on the people that love the game, but lack the time to dedicate to an end game ls

Agreed, I love the making it solo-able and just simply lowering the drop rate, something along these lines accompanied with a help point system or how many it took to do it of proper proportion would be a excellent idea, I hope SE is paying attention to these forums, some good stuff going on here.

[Nattack]

I am a man of very many solo's, and poor luck at the casino. and I can safely say lowering the droprate will cause me to go insane.

[Glamdring]

The usual advice I would give the new player who wants help with stuff is to "pay it forward"; a little help from you can get alot in return. Unfortunately, with most people having a 90 now it's kinda hard TO help anyone as a noob, even if you are a good player. The best bet is to join a good social LS and be loyal! If you show up as a noob, but have some decent conversation and a genuine interest in the other people in the LS good things will come, and the help will be there when you are ready for it. On the other hand, if you just show yourself to be a lazy jag I'll ask the leader (in /tell) to just boot this guy because he has no interest in being a decent player, and as far as I'm concerned might as well be an RMT asking me for a PL.

As to telling someone to "wiki it" I'm guilty of this alot. HOWEVER, it's not out of a desire to not answer your question, it's because I can't do it in 60 characters! So I'll tell you to "wiki skill caps" if you want to know what your skill cap is at 47 blue, I'll tell you to check the sandworm FAMILY page if you want to know what regurgitation does, and I'll tell you to check the guides section at the bottom of the blue page if you want to know what spells to hang at 53 to get auto-refresh because I know the guide is there and I don't actually know the answer.

I think the Help points system could work. Players can give other players help points if they actually received any, and those points can be redeemed for consumables (food/meds) or some special R/EX items. To prevent abuse, they can only be given by players below level 45 (or whatever the current sub-job level cap is) after being in a party or alliance for at least 45 minutes with the other player, or after a title change (unless done via the title changer or the smuggling and airship NPC quests) and at least a 2 hour party/alliance at levels above the sub-job level limit.

[Henihhi]

The "go solo it" fever as you like to call it is a direct result of players past having done the shit w/o nerfs and having no pity on the people that can manage to solo at 50 stuff we did at 30. If you don't like it or cant move on, please go to another game. SE has already nerfed stuff so much most of your cries for help fall on deaf ears.

[Beowolf]

Agreed, I love the making it solo-able and just simply lowering the drop rate, something along these lines accompanied with a help point system or how many it took to do it of proper proportion would be a excellent idea, I hope SE is paying attention to these forums, some good stuff going on here.

this doesnt realy bother me as a returning veteran, just makes it better for me to complete the things i got left off on back when i "quit" few more ToAu, and WoG stuff to complete, as well as the other 2 original add ons, and abyssea. bring it on ill "solo" it :P with my friends too! we will solo it together the way FFxi intended us too o.O;... in all seriousness i like the idea!

[breau]

This ^. A thousand times, this. If I enjoy your company, and you haven't worn my patience down to nothing by begging me to give you gil or help you farm yagudo necklaces or something else completely soloable, then I'll probably *want* to help you with the things you can't solo even if you don't ask.

lol i completely agree to this, i´m allways willing to help on cop mission, rank mission, bcnm, nm and so on, but not on farming yag necklaces more than a short time^^ breau (rdm 86, alexander, bastok)

[breau]

lern2google? 99.99% of the time you can easily find an answer to a question faster by using google than you could by asking on some forums.

lol hi rog , you on alexander? than we know each other^^ btw to everybody here, how about to post your server and your job as well? this may help people find us, when they want help. i´m rdm on alexander from bastok and i love to help, and i know a lot people feeling the same. so, when we playing again, whenever this will be, don´t be shy, send me ingame message and i do what i can. jobemote rdm: revels in moment of stylish elegance^^
breau, alexander, bastok

[rog]

lol hi rog , you on alexander?
No.

1234567890

[Basher]

what about a community notice board where you could post COP ZILART RANK missions with a countdown timer. Like Rank 5 sandoria begins in 6:40:20s Poster Basher gather together South Sandy. SO people who need it could scroll through the mission start times, pick out ones they need or the ones they can help with. It could tie in with the above mentioned rewarding of players who are willing to help. Maybe a reward token that raises your lvl cap in a bcnm when you trade an orb and token. I dunno just an idea. Gotta remember that ffxi is losing players and not recruiting a heck of a lot of new ones. There needs to be some way to tie the groups together. You only need to see the lack of sub 30 gear in the 3 home nations to see what state the game is in.

[Shinjikoto]

People in this game like to help, but I think shouting for it is a lost art. People tune it out. If you need help, you could try running around and /waving at everyone. The people that are nice enough to wave back are probably nice enough to help you out, maybe not right at that second but you could send them a /tell, introduce yourself, and ask them if they could help you later, then friendlist them. I've found that people are generally pretty nice in this game, at least when you talk to them one on one. People that shout negative garbage to other people for no legitimate reason such as "Go grind another job to 90 and solo it" which to me is that same as "Nobody pays attention to me in real life, feel my wrath random stranger." aren't usually representative of the community as a whole. Most people are just minding their own business but will actually be glad to help if they feel they are being spoken to directly. Its like that psychological/sociological experiment with the man on the street yelling for help. 80% of people just walk right by, but once the man starts calling people out by their description and they know they are being spoken to directly, they stop and help.
That being said, you gotta make friends. After you get help, be sure and show your gratitude to the helpers. Wave at them when you see them at random places. Ask them how they are doing. Make sure you talk to them during times you don't need any help, not just when you do. They'll help you again. MMOs are about making friendships. I can't fathom why anyone would want to play this game all by themselves. When this game is said and done, my best memories aren't going to be the best gear that I have, its going to be the great times I had with the people that I play with.

[Xilk]

I don't think adding incentives for older missions, quests or bcnms would be effective.
Unless there is a level cap on the bcnm, any high level player is going to go solo it and blow through it quickly and easily. It may increase occasional traffic in the zone, but I doubt it would be to a significant amount.

Like NM kills for Magian trials.. sure you team up with other players to do them if you meet at the NM. Its no problem to share the kill, but you don't need to. you are not forming up a party for it (maybe some of the VNM's) and you even more rarely run into a lower level player who actually wants/needs a drop from the NM and came solo but really needs your help for it...

The bluemage example is a good one. I would likely help such a person if I were not previously engaged. the suggestions to look at the zones are good ones. However it really only takes 1 higher level player to help complete the missions. Its a much quicker and effective solution to get someone to help.

The responses you noted are really obtuse. I would not condone or appreciate it. However, 90% of the time when I see random requests for help, it is someone who is capable of completing fight/mission/quest, they just don't know anything about it and they are too lazy to try to figure it out.

The players who help others often get burned out with that kind of behavior. Everyone has gone to help someone who made it a complete fail due to incompetence/laziness. Then they fuss and demand as if you owe them instead of just helping out because you are being nice.
I had some shmuck nag me for almost a whole day to keep kill the misareaux boss sets for him just because we allied 2 small parties for a brief time while building sets.

[svengalis]

This may have been said previously on this thread but I am tired and really don't feel like reading all of the pages of posts.

I have experienced the same thing with the "Go solo It" fever. I noticed some ppl that said "Get a linkshell that will help." This is an excellent idea. Although most ls are interested in the goals of the majority. Not each individual member. Unless of course you could get some friends inside the ls. However, more often than not the people who consider your "ls friends" are only there to get you to help them and then bail w/o helping you.

The sad fact is that. In order for you to get help you will have to pay for it. Unless, as said in the begining post, SE offers some kind of incentive program to get other to help out.

That being said. My name is Slevenkelevra, I play on Phoenix and if you need any help with stuff and are tired of shitheads saying "Go solo it" drop me a tell. I WILL HELP you out on w/e you need most day. I only ask that you are around to help me out when I need it.

Maybe with 1 person like me helping out someone it will catch on and we will make a better game experience for all.

This is the main reason I am reluctant to help people. I too am on Pheonix and my name is Jakarai and the same goes for me. If you need help with anything send me a tell. This is why alot of end game LSs recruit people or lock them down, it makes sense to me.

I was in an end game LS on my first account and we got so big that we to eventually had an application process to join. That still didn't solve some of the problems. We literally had people who would join get what they wanted and then leave. hahaha funny if you think about it but hey that's what you got to deal with in online gaming.

[svengalis]

i like the global chat channel idea, wouldn't need a gm to supervise it, you just blist the ignorants who will come in there just to spam.

I really wish they would add a global chat. They have changed the chat menu in XIV since launch I am just baffled why they haven't done the same for XI in all these years.

[Siros]

If u want help here are some ways ta get it:

1.)If in an Ls an trying ta get help,make sure ur doing something they need too or ur pretty much gunna hafta solo it...

2.)If u live in another timezone like myself,learn another language and never ever ever tell them ur an American as most of the rest of the world hates Americans(Can u blame them?..)

3.)Search all in the area u need said thing done an try ta tag along with whoever is there.

Now my remarks in #2 may anger some of u an thats not my intent,so i apologize if i offended any1 here,but this has been proven over an over again... Now as u read it u notice i put "MOST of the rest of the world" not all,some people are very nice.It just depends on who u meet.

[Komori]

Komori of Bismarck ~ I am always willing to help out new players. I recently helped my newest friend Omiyasha get from about 60 to 76~ and we plan to get CoP etc. done for him soon.

On my BLU, I could easily solo most missions for it to help any lower levels get through and would be happy to do it.

[Shinjikoto]

To the comment about people being lazy because the mission they are asking for help on is generally considered easy, this is a social game. It could be laziness that leads people to ask for help, but it could also be the desire to socialize while playing. Many people don't want to play an MMO alone. The fact that an event might be easy doesn't make wanting help with it necessarily a negative quality all the time.
Also, I agree about how annoying some can be, we've all helped people that were total jerks about it. It can be as little as someone asking for a raise and not thanking you for it, or Teleporting someone and they just drop party and run away, its very disrespectful and makes you weary of helping other people for a while. But these are the minority of cases in my experience. Most people are very nice.
As for the "Most other countries hate Americans" comment. I've heard this since the day I started playing this game, and not once has an Asian or European player ever been anything but nice to me. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm just amazed by how often I hear this complaint and yet after all these years i continue to get help time and time again from them. Not only do I get help, But I get bombarded with an array of smiley faces and weird cutesy pig things making them seem extremely friendly. Just this month alone A DNC from France helped me get whm head seals, and a monk from Japan completed my entire Surya +1 staff quest by killing pixies for me in abyssea. I went over there to get a few kills, saw her there killing some pixies, said "Staff Trial Teamup?" in autotranslate and she didn't stop until I told her I was finished. It could be that everyone just naturally loves me but I doubt it. It could be that my server has the nicest foreign population (I say foreign from an American Perspective of course), and I guess I'll find out after the merger happens. But, I think some American players, as a product of having to constantly hear that other countries dont like them, deal with other countries with the prejudice that everybody hates America, and look for as many ways to prove it as possible while denying evidence to the contrary. Self fulfilling prophecy maybe.

[Miera]

I've seen a few people get laughed at because they were shouting for help with Getting the Tenzen fights done or fighting Promothia. The go solo it thing pissed me off.

Oh and if its impossible to solo something you'd also get told to go make friends and then fight it.

What kind of crap is that?

Shinjikoto : I've been told that all my years of playing different Online games, I've came across some pretty nice players that were from different countries all over the world and you'll eventually find someone who is like that but I haven't just yet.

Just because a person shouts for a all Japanese party and ask {English} {No thanks.} means they are stuck up and want to alienate the English speakers. Maybe they feel more comfortable to play with people they can understand because using the auto translate function sucks so much and no one likes to be left out of the loop.

[Glamdring]

I really do like the bulletin board idea. Many times the real reason player X is lagging is because they only have so much time. It would need to be categorized with timers to erase the message though or it would quickly become unmanageable. Maybe I plan to kill raskovnik for my Ferine Mantle; I can take him solo, but the only thing I need is the mantle. If I want to post so other players will come to get other drops/win/atma and maybe help with !! procs there should be a better means than /shouting in port jeuno. Seriously, I have the /shout chat filter turned on so I can avoid all the spam as it is, I don't expect anyone else to not have it on.

[Chocobits]

Often times when I am bored, I will respond to a random shout I see in a city. Then, I amaze the person I'm with by soloing it. Even level capped missions like 2-3 Dragon and 5-1 Skeleton fight (God I wish these weren't uncapping) I would tag along and solo it for the person, then tell them that with experience they'd be able to solo it for themselves.

Too often though.. someone will Flist me after helping them, and then begins the parasitic relationship where I am expected to be there at the person's beck and call when they or a friend of theirs needs a mission done.

Helping out too much makes you a doormat. Asking for help too much makes you a leech.

I really don't think it's a copout to suggest a person "level into" soloability. It takes 2-3 days on a relaxed schedule to get a job from 1-90, assuming you have someone lined up to help with genkais (although I solod my Genkais). Then another day to skillup and get gear etc.

Wanting something "right away" without being willing to work for it is selfish.

Wanting to have spells/gear at the level to use them pre 70 is antiquated. You spend such little time at those levels that it's retarded to focus on them. If you want to make a traditional party for a certain level range, there's nothing at all wrong with that. I feel nostalgic sometimes and organize non burn level sync parties once in awhile. It feels good to grind the wheel once in awhile.

Obsessing about being perfect at any pre 75 level is just dumb. The only reason to strive for perfection at a certain level is for soloing anyway. Being perfect at a low level in an exp party situation does nothing but unbalance hate and actually inhibits xp/hr. The only people that should seek perfection are soloing jobs like BLM, BLU, PUP, NIN, THF and BST whose solo survivability depends heavily on their repoire of situational gear.


So here is the irony: The only people that should need help with any non-endgame events are the ones that will use the rewards/benefits of those quests/missions/NMs for soloing later. In which case, in for a penny, in for a pound. Go solo it.

[Shinjikoto]

Often times when I am bored, I will respond to a random shout I see in a city. Then, I amaze the person I'm with by soloing it. Even level capped missions like 2-3 Dragon and 5-1 Skeleton fight (God I wish these weren't uncapping) I would tag along and solo it for the person, then tell them that with experience they'd be able to solo it for themselves.

Too often though.. someone will Flist me after helping them, and then begins the parasitic relationship where I am expected to be there at the person's beck and call when they or a friend of theirs needs a mission done.

Helping out too much makes you a doormat. Asking for help too much makes you a leech.
.

I agree that if someone is expecting anyone to be at their beck and call then they need a reality check and should learn to be self sufficient in order to continue playing a game like this. That sounds extremely rude and annoying. But this, at least on my server, is definitely a rare condition. Either that or the person that is being asked help of is far too agreeable at the beginning and everyone ends up wrongly believing that they enjoy helping 24/7.
As far as people's motivations for wanting help, I don't think its fair to assume why people want help then label it right or wrong, or call it obsessive and dumb. That's unnecessary. Its a game. People want to play the way they want to play. They may want to take their time and enjoy everything the game has to offer, they may want to rush through and just do endgame stuff, they may just enjoy running around killing stuff with other people as a form of socialization. Any way that a person chooses to play is fine because it doesn't matter to anyone else, its a personal choice, and if someone enjoys company when playing an MMO and wants some help along the way, I can't find anything wrong with asking for it if they are being respectful when going about it. If they aren't, screw em.

[Siros]

I've seen a few people get laughed at because they were shouting for help with Getting the Tenzen fights done or fighting Promothia. The go solo it thing pissed me off.

Oh and if its impossible to solo something you'd also get told to go make friends and then fight it.

What kind of crap is that?

Shinjikoto : I've been told that all my years of playing different Online games, I've came across some pretty nice players that were from different countries all over the world and you'll eventually find someone who is like that but I haven't just yet.

Just because a person shouts for a all Japanese party and ask {English} {No thanks.} means they are stuck up and want to alienate the English speakers. Maybe they feel more comfortable to play with people they can understand because using the auto translate function sucks so much and no one likes to be left out of the loop.

Yea,ta explain alittle more on the JP only part.Its not them being racist against u,it actually is a language barrier aspect.I live in Japan,been here 4 years so far and from what i know,they are required ta learn english in school.So yes they know how ta speak it,but reading an writing are alot tougher.Its like me learning Japanese,i can speak it perfectly,but u ask me ta spell something out an i will definitely mess it up horribly.Plus the auto-trans really is limited.Though some actually are very racist(not just against Americans),Most are very polite,friendly an respectable people.So dont jump ta conclusions if u get that answer from them,its just easier if everyone in the group can communicate smoothly.

[Siros]

And just ta add ta that.U might be shocked ta find out most JP players like talking ta english speakers because it helps them practice the english they have learned.Try talking ta some an u might make a few friends^^

[Cupofnoodles]

I believe in karma on this game and i'll help someone out when needed. For instance I wanted VE hairpin, I went BST/THF (charm pull ftw) and got it the first five minutes I was out there (using PH to pop it). I killed it and got my hairpin. As I'm killing it this RDM starts yelling at me I been hunting it for 3 day and blah blah blah. I thought no problem I'll help out. I killed that thing about 5 more times with no drop for the rdm, but I helped her out. I as bored and figured I'll help because I would have like some help from a person that knows what they are doing when I was first started. Any comments?

[Cupofnoodles]

shameless bump cause i wanna here what ppl think about my theory on helping ppl

[Krashport]

Okay first and foremost, this is *not* a thread to complain or troll or anything, so if you disagree with my ideas simply say so and why, without raging on me for whatever reason. This is just a topic I did discuss with friends in game lately and felt like sharing my opinion to others.
On second place, please do not use this thread to troll or complain either, I don't like that kind of stuff as it would make the thread not constructive in anyway.
And lastly, forgive my possible grammar errors, English is not my first language.

Okay so with FFXI population decreasing SE has done great things to assist the new players in achieving goals that would once require far greater numbers and longer time (like CoP, exping, and soon dynamis) and I really appreciated all of this, but I still do notice something's wrong.


Often I have to watch poor newbies getting their requests of help bashed by higher level players who will tell them to get their things done on their own, with the now abused answer "go solo it".

A fair example was this BLU newcomer who, at lv40, asked for help to go through promies so he could reach Tavnazia and try learn Refueling and other blu spells in a few levels, these were the answers he got.
"you can solo promy now lol"
"but I'm only 40"
"then grind to 60 and then go solo it"
"I would like to get Refueling before 60 if possible"
"then grind another job to 60 and then go solo it"
Am I the only one that thinks this sounds a bit wrong? And this is just one example.

Even as a high level player I have experienced this kind of treatment, in particular with VNMs. Many times I'd ask for help only to be replied with
"grind nin to 90 and go solo it"
Well, even if I had 90 nin, it is not always possible to job change. some trials require killing VNMs while equipping the choosen weapon, and what if my trial weapon doesn't allow me to go as a job that can solo the VNM?
I've noticed this as well, The only reason why these players do this is: "I'm assuming"

Me.) I Would gladly help any member new, old or elitist. Odin /Poke me! ^^b

1.) Cause they joined the game under RL friends and those friends PL'ed them all the way up, Had them leech w/in Abyssea, Those RL friends thought they we're doing good, But the lack of having their friend that their PL'in, Having let them leech not teaching them the right tools they need to play the game as to make new friends along the way.

2.) Joining a new MMO after leaving one can that a toll on a person, <Stop for a min and think back when you 1st logged in> You didn't know anything about this MMO as to what you heard or read about outside the game, Being new some players can come off abit hard, I've done it.. :o "Hard as to want everything right away"

3.) All members play at a totally different pace, Some think that FFXI is just Leveling to cap and get the best gear. Me I personally think its more then just that, Lack of a better word. "I do it all"?

4.) Some members don't realize that this MMO is Global which can in time be the BIG issue, not able to explain yourself clearly, That person your telling would do that "goodbye byebye good..bye byebye.... bye"

5.) Sad to say, There are "Some" members out there that don't play well w/ others, and just like to keep to themselves. Also there are Linkshells that only work w/in and just out for themselves. "This will fall into "Some" elitist Members"


Now this is not a thread to cuss out people who won't help out. We all pay RL money for this game and spend our real time and would like to do it while having fun, without having to costantly work for other's benefit, but the main meaning of MMORPG implies cooperation (massive multiplayer part in particular) and I feel this part of the game is being forgotten lately.

So to finally get to the point, I would like SE to find a way to incentivate people in repeating some things for a new gain, so that others can get assistance and at the same time the helpers can be rewarded with more than the simple satisfaction of helping someone in need (since sadly seems to be no longer enough for most).

SE did something like that by adding exp rewards to CoP mission BCs for those that would repeat them a long time ago. But maybe something more could be done.

An idea could be a substantial gil reward from defeating a VNM or mission BC or anything else, but I feel that would end up abused by potential RMTs.

Post any suggestion to help here, and again please no raging, I come in peace^^;

I approve this message! ^

[Auredant]

Are you including me? I felt my advice was fairly solid, and a good way to get on the good side of most of the disillusioned old school players. None of us want to repeat the same 5-1 mission walkthrough for the 5,000th time when there's a wiki for it, nor do we want to farm yagudo necklaces for someone when they're easily soloable. Teaching someone self-reliance early on is a great way to be more successful later. I've had far too many experiences with players that my friends would spoil, helping with anything and everything, who pretty much never left Jeuno unless they had 1 or more 75s with them to do everything for them. That's not healthy for anyone involved. High level players get annoyed, and low level players don't learn how to do things for themselves.

The easiest way to earn my respect is to get things done when I'm not there to help. A friend of mine came back to the game a couple weeks ago, having Rdm and Rng at 75, no gear, and no gil (he gave it away ages ago when he quit). After he bought Abyssea, he told me he wanted to take his THF from 65-90. I took him out to Aby-Attohwa and solo'd some Dom ops for him, got him 65-90 and got all his Genkais done in a couple of hours. Aside from getting him Razed Ruins, that's about all he needed my help with. After that, he went out, used the Dominion Notes I got him to buy some augmented Daggers, skilled up everything to cap, unlocked and killed his WSNMs, got a Swift belt and Raparee harness, and farmed up a couple mil in gil to cover the basic gear he was missing. I was not there for any of that, and he didn't need me to be. Now, when he actually does need my help for something (Turul, AF3, etc), I'm more than willing to drop what I'm doing and head over because I know he's responsible enough to contribute to the fight, rather than cheer from the sidelines.

excellent example....except for the dominion ops in attohwa business (but i'm sure that was just a mistake)
i was Plin a teenish whm ls member in the dunes when he asked me to walk him to jeuno so he wouldnt get aggroed and die. Not an unreasonable request....except that he was a 60 blm at the time ><
when i mentioned it to him he just said "but im not a 60 blm now" /facepalm

[Auredant]

I think this is why a lot of people often will spend an extra $13 a month to create an extra account and buy another copy of FFXI for a different system and level an alt character to assist their main character to help them on certain stuff. But I like your idea for incentives for people to help a person with something for those who normally don't help unless there's something in it for them. Some people offer gil as a reward for people helping but not everyone is rich enough to offer a reward. For those that do need an incentive to help I have a little bit of an idea of what SE can maybe do to give players that incentive to help.

SE can make some sort of helper or assist point system where a player gets one point everytime they help someone with something. A NPC can be placed in all cities and the helper has to get an item from the NPC that they can use to multiply the item and trade to the person they're helping out to hold onto. There can be different help categories like quests, notorious monsters, missions, etc. from the help NPC and while the person that is being helped with is fighting the monster or doing the quest, that person can use the item on the monster or trade the item to the NPC to get some kind of imprint on the item. (Maybe a soulplate can somehow be involved to capture an image or something) The NPC/Monster or player's name is then imprinted on the item and the person being helped trades the item back to the helper and the helper can trade the imprinted item back to the NPC for their point reward.

As for the rewards, the rewards can be very good rewards like something almost like twilight gear or something that players will really want to go after.

I don't know if this sort of system will work or can be done but let's say you need 100 points for a really good piece of gear or item, then that gives you 100 reasons to help 100 different people and a lot of people can get the help they need and people won't have to worry about never finding anyone to help them.
I like this! How bout trading in helper points for an abbysite of the increased drop rate...works in and out of abbyssea and grants a permanent 5% increase on all NM drops...maybe can max at 10% and can solo then and have a better chance at drop even though ya may not have TH on hand. Don't know anyone who wouldnt want that!

[Auredant]

@Krashport-usually it's the elitist players who have been on the game forever that tell the newer player to go solo not the one that was abby leveled by his friend...at least thats been what i've witnessed. Everyone forgets that they didnt start this game out as the uber solo everything bad asses they currently are. We all had help. Unfortunately its rare that i have time to help as i usually log on for events...at least during the week.
But my advice is like most...get a helpful social LS. Be social. Participate. And try and be patient and not ask for help wit 3-5 things the first second u get pearled. And if u do all this and no one ever is willing to help, or worse, they don't even respond to you...then drop that pearl like it's on fire and find a new one.

[Alderin]

Agreed to a certain extent...

Everyone has goals in which they would like to achieve that is simply not solo'able - especially for newcommers. The prime example I have are the lower level limit break quests which require you to go out and kill mobs that are much higher level then you. Even farming a testimony by yourself can be quite difficult for your first time round - without a higher level job.

These used to be done in masses - When the first limit break quests came out you used to do it in parties / alliances as at this stage no one was a higher level in order to be able to go solo it for you.

There is one mentality I do not agree with here and that is a level 30 asking to go "help" them with the Tenzen or Airship fight etc. The low level player is not assisting with this case and essentially should be asking "Can someone finish my add-on for me while I sit back and watch."

I believe that if you are in a position where you cannot solo something in order to proceed with the race to a higher level - then yes you should ask for help. I am sure the guys in my LS would help out - however if you wish to simply let other people do your quests for you, or essentially play your game for you - you have no standpoint here and shouldn't be attempting to do it.

If you can't at least be any degree of help in regards to doing something (eg. Trying to finish CoP at level 30, or something else) then you truly aren't asking for "help" you are asking for someone to do it for you.

Sure, if you are stuck and need help - ask for it.. You won't get flamed in my shell, in fact I am sure you will get a few volunteers. However if you are at a level that you shouldn't be attempting to do something - then get to a level where you can before asking.

The player that you mentioned in your original circumstance is just selfish, obviously gets things given to him or has had an easy ride to 90 and doesn't have any sort of mentality that does the community any good. Unfortunately this game is pretty much based on end-game stuff now, and the newer player is obviously getting the short straw on this one due to the idea that this game is "Abyssea or GTFO."

In short, I won't play your game for you - however if you are truly stuck and need to get past the mission/quest in order to continue your race to lvl 90 then sure I will help.. However the key-word there is "help" and not "do it for you".

[Hajieelkhe]

This thread struck a note in me... I totally agree with the OP. Since less people are playing ffxi, there are less people left that are willing to help. Don't get me wrong, I think of myself as quite an accomplished player, with reasonable experience. I've gotten lots of help from my LS, and other players outside of my LS. I've helped other players too, though I feel myself getting agitated when getting requests from totally new players that haven't even heard of or used ffxiclopedia or anything of the like.

But I was there too... I threw away beastman seals like every other newbie ><. I never thought I'd get my first level 75 job until I was challenged by another player, and then grinded my way to the top. Nor did I believe I would ever kick Maat's ass at the first try on my RDM.

Though the happiest I ever felt was when I met my now best mate in ffxi. Always quick to help and we even tried to have a promy static when it still was hard ><;

So I propose to all of you... hmmm. I'm on Ramuh server, soon to be Bahamut. Anyone that wish to help newcomers, contact me (Hajieelkhe) and you can all get a pearl. And to all of you newbies as well, you're always welcome to join us.

There will be no pressure, if you want to help, come help. If you need help, just ask. Though if you don't even know what you're talking about, we will ask you to do research. (Though there will be exceptions ^^)


I'll be posting this on New Player Guidance as well :D

/ Haji

[Krashport]

@Krashport-usually it's the elitist players who have been on the game forever that tell the newer player to go solo not the one that was abby leveled by his friend...at least thats been what i've witnessed. Everyone forgets that they didnt start this game out as the uber solo everything bad asses they currently are. We all had help. Unfortunately its rare that i have time to help as i usually log on for events...at least during the week.
But my advice is like most...get a helpful social LS. Be social. Participate. And try and be patient and not ask for help wit 3-5 things the first second u get pearled. And if u do all this and no one ever is willing to help, or worse, they don't even respond to you...then drop that pearl like it's on fire and find a new one.

Fixed it, Auredant See Edit!


I've noticed this as well, The only reason why these players do this is: "I'm assuming"

Me.) I Would gladly help any member new, old or elitist. Odin /Poke me! ^^b

1.) Cause they joined the game under RL friends and those friends PL'ed them all the way up, Had them leech w/in Abyssea, Those RL friends thought they we're doing good, But the lack of having their friend that their PL'in, Having let them leech not teaching them the right tools they need to play the game as to make new friends along the way.

2.) Joining a new MMO after leaving one can that a toll on a person, <Stop for a min and think back when you 1st logged in> You didn't know anything about this MMO as to what you heard or read about outside the game, Being new some players can come off abit hard, I've done it.. :o "Hard as to want everything right away"

3.) All members play at a totally different pace, Some think that FFXI is just Leveling to cap and get the best gear. Me I personally think its more then just that, Lack of a better word. "I do it all"?

4.) Some members don't realize that this MMO is Global which can in time be the BIG issue, not able to explain yourself clearly, That person your telling would do that "goodbye byebye good..bye byebye.... bye"

Edit: 5.) Sad to say, There are "Some" Members out there that don't play well w/ others, and just like to keep to themselves. Also there are Linkshells that only work w/in and just out for themselves. "This would fall into "Some" elitist members"



Edit: 5.)
Edit: 6) This is to what I experience, Also It's what I'm assuming to Said OP.

[Khajit]

I generally don't mind helping out with some stuff or at least used to not mind but it honestly gets irritating when I see lv 90 people bitching at me to go help me with a mob they could kill on their own 30~40 levels earlier and cursing at me for having the audacity to say they need to just do it his or herself. When asking for help be clear on if you need some other thing that actually does require 2 people because if I have to deal with nonsense that you refuse to actually say you need help on before I tell you to do it yourself then you basically just lied to me and everyone else about what you needed and the people that would help on the doors or multi person locks are going to ignore the person shouting for things they need no help with as far as the information given tells them.

[Beowolf]

help someone...then tell them to "pay it forward" good movie genious concept.