Void-Watch equipment drop rates.....

[Neofire]

Ok I'm confused about it, last night I was in an alli and we killed pil 5 times(fought 6 but people got lazy). So out of those 5 kills I got not one single piece of gear and we got max triggers and treasure hunter was high. My question is....why is like that? Did SE screw up the drop rates that bad so you would have to kill something 100 times to get a piece of gear?

And pil is no push over either

[Doombringer]

you didn't play much before abyssea came out, did you?


like it or not, droprates have long been shitty. abyssea was the exception to the rule. most of us loved it, but se seems to think we were wrong.

dunno what more to tell you other than no, it's not glitched.. that's how it is.. and we're "wrong" for wanting it any other way.

[Runespider]

I've killed about 60-70+ VW NMs that drop bodies, not only have I personally got no body/top tier drops from them all but I can count the amount of bodies that did drop to anyone on the fingers of my 2 hands. Half of which went to people that couldn't even use them.


Did SE screw up the drop rates that bad so you would have to kill something 100 times to get a piece of gear?

Yes.

[Brolic]

yes, welcome to voidwatch

[Dragoy]

Because time-sink is fun. \ö/

Right?

No. But that's how the game rolls, and always did. I don't like it, but I guess there is just something that makes it worth for people to endure this part of the game, and continue on.

[Theytak]

but with the way void watch is set up, you can get FIVE TIMES AS MUCH LOOT! And by loot I mean useless logs and ores.

[Brolic]

0\200 and counting on a juneo t3 body, ever kill with capped red

[Dreamin]

Welcome to Logs and Ores. These are the 99.99% drop that you'll be getting. If you are leveling WW or GS, it's great.

Killed Pil/Qilin over 100+ each and Kaggen ~50+ now and not a single usable gears for myself (I did get the amazing COR bullets but COR will never see the day of light as a job for me). Some metals too sure but who care about gil at this point in time. Welcome to PURE RANDOM drop, some ppl might get lucky and get it with 1 run, some might never ever get the gears that they want. THIS is the biggest problem with the drop system.

[Dragoy]

I still don't get it why not more systems like Einherjar, where one would always get something.

Even if it's not much, it's progress, instead of a lottery.
That aspect really might be the thing I dislike the most in the game.

Too much to do with /random...

[Doombringer]

yah, assault points or ampoules or dom notes or cruor or any other of the myriad types of space cash this game has floating around, granted a lot of these types of space cash can't be redeemed for much of anything good nowadays, but that could pretty easily change.

like.. why can't killing fafnir 15 times give me enough "fafnir credits" to exchange for a ridill or something? maybe from some old retired hunter who's just happy to see the torch being taken up. have him support all sorts of nm's. the exact numbers on credits per kill and credits per item are open to balancing.. just make it so it doesn't feel hopeless..

there yah go se.. i just plotted out your next update.

[Theytak]

I still don't get it why not more systems like Einherjar, where one would always get something.

Even if it's not much, it's progress, instead of a lottery.
That aspect really might be the thing I dislike the most in the game.

Too much to do with /random...

Yea, honestly, I think einherjar had pretty much the perfect drop system. Not saying anything about the quality of the drops themselves, just that you were guaranteed some reward for participation, even if you never saw the incredibly rare ground kings abjurations drop, outside of Odin's Chamber, and Odin's Chamber even having a very nice system of guaranteeing at least one~two useful drops every time.

[Neofire]

Getting ores and logs after spending a month on VW and nothing to show for it takes away my confidence and interest of it. Its .it fun and in no way "rewarding" like SE promised. Not saying I should get a body piece every time I kill a nm but after 50+ kills something should give. I mean these nms are hard(the ones with the good drops)

[Seiowan]

Bad drop rates? Voidwatch? Hah! I'll have you know, I picked up a ton of useless junk in my last few NM kills. Why just last week someone commented how they'd even picked up a scroll of Protect V... I'll say that again, "Protect V"! That's, like, the highest tier protect spell! How awesome is that!?

...had to get that sarcasm out of my system.

Truthfully, I can't see much point to Voidwatch right now. Sure there are a few nice items (and far between, I digress) but the drop rates are terrible, and the drop system is beyond mortal comprehension. Aside from some interesting and challenging fights, there's little incentive to get all the tiers besides the smug knowledge that you've done it.

[Olor]

I've gotten a gun I can't use from voidwatch. That's about it.

[Tamoa]

There are so many other threads on this forum regarding the very same topic, and other threads that have derailed into a discussion about this topic as well.

Amazing (no not really, but infuriating still) that SE just blatantly ignore the huge number of people who are unhappy about voidwatch reward system. I would have liked an Einherjar-like "point" (ichor) system, even if a massive number of points were required to exchange for a ra/ex body or weapon, at least you'd know that your hard work and time invested would eventually result in a reward you want.

Killing Akvan with capped lights and traded cells and getting Ahriman Wing, Ahriman Tear and Ebony Log isn't a reward, it's an insult. Especially when it's your 150th-ish kill.

[Zumi]

They went back to salvage type 2% drop rates, when the old dev team came back.

[Tsukiumi]

I'm 0/64 on Fajin boots, while a friend of mine who doesn't have RNG or THF leveled has gotten the boots 3 times. Fun times.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I've gotten a gun I can't use from voidwatch. That's about it.At least you've gotten that much, all I have to show for 200+ runs is a strendu that I never get to use.

[Olor]

eh, I could at least equip the strendu on a job I already have leveled or even UNLOCKED.

[Ilax]

1 problem that DEV is facing.

Too easy drop rate mean SE have to keep spam more and more content quicker, or everyone will turn bored. You guy seem to forget this is End-Game, hope you even understand what that mean, mean when you get done with all the new gear, your are pretty much done with the game and will leave by lack of interest since nothing more you can get out of it.

I do not agree with 1,500 PW nor 1,500 arch, because that mean 1 hardcore day to farm + 1 day to kill, not to mention the 18 player that it involve to help 1 player... 1500 = 3000 day = 8.2yr to finish, that can't be serious at all.

For VW, i can see casual player mad about it, because abyssea made them look at the game differently, What SE should do is, ADD more casual content that RIVAL with the VW one, an alternative to make everyone happy, i already offer that solution in the past. I don't care anymore if casual player get an armor that is DEF80 while the hardcore path get same armor with DEF81, is not like that make a difference at all, outside the fact that prove you did work harder to get it.

At anytime, those casual player might eventually try to get the DEF81 armor for the heck of achievements, and they be well geared to attack the strong content. There is no point to keep removing none stop all the hard content in the game, and when i read tanaka interview, is make me RAGE since he say he will lower difficulty after a while.

This is reason #1 why this game go so wrong lately. Everything get nerfed, and i am listing them in order of the mess SE made:

-Exp PT [turn totally no achievements with abyssea]
-HNM [They kinda get ride of it, or made it even worse to get access with KS99]
-Dynamis [Totally turned crap as abyssea where you trigger and trio everything, no more strategy]
-Whole old content [ Everything is too weak now and hell unbalanced: Einherjar, Sky, Sea, ZNM, etc ]
-Nerfing WS/JA [ GA, h2h, WAR JA, and the list just started this week ]

I am sorry, but if Tanaka plan was to create a big riot in FFXI after failing in XIV, well your plan is working very great, keep going.

[Seiowan]

1 problem that DEV is facing.

Too easy drop rate mean SE have to keep spam more and more content quicker, or everyone will turn bored. You guy seem to forget this is End-Game, hope you even understand what that mean, mean when you get done with all the new gear, your are pretty much done with the game and will leave by lack of interest since nothing more you can get out of it.They don't really need to tweak the low drop rates (though it would be nice) if they simply pooled the loot so people could decide which items they needed and which ones they did not.

Arguably, the current system means someone out there might get multiple good drops with one kill, and several people will walk away with their awesome "Quick Magic +2" or something. In practice, however, very few actually come away with anything more than a lumberjacks haul and bruised pride.

[Vagrua]

Amazing (no not really, but infuriating still) that SE just blatantly ignore the huge number of people who are unhappy about voidwatch reward system. I would have liked an Einherjar-like "point" (ichor) system, even if a massive number of points were required to exchange for a ra/ex body or weapon, at least you'd know that your hard work and time invested would eventually result in a reward you want.


Changing the system into the way the users would like it to be might dishonor them or something since they've already set it into motion. Just my guess.

It's sad that all of our threads/posts got ignored though. :(

[Ilax]

They don't really need to tweak the low drop rates (though it would be nice) if they simply pooled the loot so people could decide which items they needed and which ones they did not.

Arguably, the current system means someone out there might get multiple good drops with one kill, and several people will walk away with their awesome "Quick Magic +2" or something. In practice, however, very few actually come away with anything more than a lumberjacks haul and bruised pride.

Kinda agree with that, but DEV would probably need to lower the drop even more in that case?. 18 player @ 1% chance = 18% chance get the drop every fight, multiply this by 4 stone = 72% chance every run, so far is about the luck i see when i do VW. Say they allow group to put treasure in pool, then every 6 run someone in alliance get the body. So after 108[6 x 18] run, entire ally get it. (or max 216 run if really unlucky)

Sound all great on paper, but the real story is this: You get a body piece that you don't want, you put it in the pool, alliance leader QuaterMaster his friend because she more sexy then you, and drama explode, or LS make make you need 400 point to lot on it, and each run earn you 1 point...

Other way is, disband PT, invite the one you think should have your drop and you pool it. [That idea is BEST imo]

But as it is right now, you have 1% chance to get the drop, and is possible to pop NM 4 time per hour, if you are in a good group, 5h long = 20 try, you can get the piece of gear in 5day, 10 day if you really unlucky and be 1/200. for casual player that play only 1 hours per day, that mean 25day to 50 day to get it.

Is that bad? Well considering these body piece are "END GAME" and we might have to wait 1yr before SE add something better, i doubt is too much 25~50day. On side note for who said it should be like Einherjar and have another kind of reward with point, is kinda already the case, you get 16,590 cruor and exp. per fight, that mean 200k cruor/exp every 12.5 fight, 200k cruor = 500k gil with blinker. Its maybe not the "ultimate" reward that everyone look at, but 500k+ gil /day is pretty good. Do it for 10 day and you get 5m gil + drop + Body armor.

I'm not really sure if SE really need to change anything in VW, but yes that would be nice if we can put our treasure in the pool, assuming we can disband and party to who we want to give the treasure.

[Economizer]

yah, assault points or ampoules or dom notes or cruor or any other of the myriad types of space cash this game has floating around, granted a lot of these types of space cash can't be redeemed for much of anything good nowadays, but that could pretty easily change.

Elite Hunt Registry Training Regime Points.

http://images.bluegartr.com/wiki/7/78/Hunt_Registry.jpg

[Xellith]

Voidwatch thread discussing terrible drop rates... VW makes Shinryu the king of decent gear with reasonable drop rates sad..

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/Xellith/FFXILOGSalpha.jpg

[Dreamin]

Kinda agree with that, but DEV would probably need to lower the drop even more in that case?. 18 player @ 1% chance = 18% chance get the drop every fight, multiply this by 4 stone = 72% chance every run, so far is about the luck i see when i do VW. Say they allow group to put treasure in pool, then every 6 run someone in alliance get the body. So after 108[6 x 18] run, entire ally get it. (or max 216 run if really unlucky)

Sound all great on paper, but the real story is this: You get a body piece that you don't want, you put it in the pool, alliance leader QuaterMaster his friend because she more sexy then you, and drama explode, or LS make make you need 400 point to lot on it, and each run earn you 1 point...

Other way is, disband PT, invite the one you think should have your drop and you pool it. [That idea is BEST imo]

But as it is right now, you have 1% chance to get the drop, and is possible to pop NM 4 time per hour, if you are in a good group, 5h long = 20 try, you can get the piece of gear in 5day, 10 day if you really unlucky and be 1/200. for casual player that play only 1 hours per day, that mean 25day to 50 day to get it.

Is that bad? Well considering these body piece are "END GAME" and we might have to wait 1yr before SE add something better, i doubt is too much 25~50day. On side note for who said it should be like Einherjar and have another kind of reward with point, is kinda already the case, you get 16,590 cruor and exp. per fight, that mean 200k cruor/exp every 12.5 fight, 200k cruor = 500k gil with blinker. Its maybe not the "ultimate" reward that everyone look at, but 500k+ gil /day is pretty good. Do it for 10 day and you get 5m gil + drop + Body armor.

I'm not really sure if SE really need to change anything in VW, but yes that would be nice if we can put our treasure in the pool, assuming we can disband and party to who we want to give the treasure.

it's 1/18, you're competing against 17 others to get that 1 chest that has that "1%" drop rate (assuming that only 1 of the top tier ra/ex drop per NM which seems to be true if it does drop. 2nd and 3rd tier might be better). So effectively, it's not 18% but rather it is 1/18*1%.

[Neofire]

Ilax I dunno what your talking about dude, I've been playing longer then you. I resent that casual comment. If you think killing something 500 times and not getting what you want hardcore then more power to ya. I on the other hand think its utter waste of time, no one told SE to make VW where you could pop the nms back to back. Hell make the nms only popable once per day like VNNMs for each path. But the drop needs to be addressed.... 0.4% really? I've seen pieces with lower rates then that.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Kinda agree with that, but DEV would probably need to lower the drop even more in that case?. 18 player @ 1% chance = 18% chance get the drop every fight, multiply this by 4 stone = 72% chance every run, so far is about the luck i see when i do VW. Say they allow group to put treasure in pool, then every 6 run someone in alliance get the body. So after 108[6 x 18] run, entire ally get it. (or max 216 run if really unlucky)

Sound all great on paper, but the real story is this: You get a body piece that you don't want, you put it in the pool, alliance leader QuaterMaster his friend because she more sexy then you, and drama explode, or LS make make you need 400 point to lot on it, and each run earn you 1 point...

Other way is, disband PT, invite the one you think should have your drop and you pool it. [That idea is BEST imo]

But as it is right now, you have 1% chance to get the drop, and is possible to pop NM 4 time per hour, if you are in a good group, 5h long = 20 try, you can get the piece of gear in 5day, 10 day if you really unlucky and be 1/200. for casual player that play only 1 hours per day, that mean 25day to 50 day to get it.

Is that bad? Well considering these body piece are "END GAME" and we might have to wait 1yr before SE add something better, i doubt is too much 25~50day. On side note for who said it should be like Einherjar and have another kind of reward with point, is kinda already the case, you get 16,590 cruor and exp. per fight, that mean 200k cruor/exp every 12.5 fight, 200k cruor = 500k gil with blinker. Its maybe not the "ultimate" reward that everyone look at, but 500k+ gil /day is pretty good. Do it for 10 day and you get 5m gil + drop + Body armor.

I'm not really sure if SE really need to change anything in VW, but yes that would be nice if we can put our treasure in the pool, assuming we can disband and party to who we want to give the treasure.

That is not how you calculate probability.

[Cursed]

yah, assault points or ampoules or dom notes or cruor or any other of the myriad types of space cash this game has floating around, granted a lot of these types of space cash can't be redeemed for much of anything good nowadays, but that could pretty easily change.

like.. why can't killing fafnir 15 times give me enough "fafnir credits" to exchange for a ridill or something? maybe from some old retired hunter who's just happy to see the torch being taken up. have him support all sorts of nm's. the exact numbers on credits per kill and credits per item are open to balancing.. just make it so it doesn't feel hopeless..

there yah go se.. i just plotted out your next update.

^ This.
The ZNM system was almost as good as this except it had the fatal flaw of requiring players to go and take pictures of things.
Where's the fun in that?

Salvage was a fun idea, but SE treated it as a reward in itself, where it wasn't. Mainly due to its horrible drop rates and the fact that it was another seperate event. Having to farm assault points also made this event more tedious. Limiting tags, even more hinderance.

The equation is simple, and if it is followed it leads to happy/more satisfied players = greater player retention = longer player retention= more subscribers = more money.

Its simple, reward effort. That's all it is. Its not some magical wall street worthy credit default mind boggling algorythm.
Set us targets that deliver rewards once achieved. Set them high, but not like the insane amount of work required to get a Lv.99 Emp/Mythic/Relic.
Do not leave things up to chance.
Make doing things actually fun, and apply a reward for doing them. wait, you already did that and it was called Abyssea.
Despite our love for it, you think it was out of B A L A N C E.
Well hold on a second, what should be a greater influencer on your decision making process, the amount of people who enjoyed Abyssea, or some game developer's vision of balance?
Regardless how much Tanaka has under his belt, you've got to come to a realization that his past achievements do not say anything about his current/future achievements.
What has been happening in FFXI since you guys decided to toss the current FFXIV out the door and release version 2.0 in 2013 demonstrates some really bad contigency planning, project management, PR strategy and not to mention basic fundemental understanding of customer satisfaction.

get in the game SE, you're hanging onto nothing more than childhood based loyalty at the moment, and even that has been stretched as far as its going to.


EDIT: one more hint, look at the STUPID amount of events and instances you, SE, have released in FFXI that are just a waste of server memory.
-MMM
-Chocobo racing
-Chocobo raising
-Pankraton
-Beseiged
there's more, I just don't care to waste time even thinking about it.
Its not even worth that.

[Neofire]

^ This.
The ZNM system was almost as good as this except it had the fatal flaw of requiring players to go and take pictures of things.
Where's the fun in that?

Salvage was a fun idea, but SE treated it as a reward in itself, where it wasn't. Mainly due to its horrible drop rates and the fact that it was another seperate event. Having to farm assault points also made this event more tedious. Limiting tags, even more hinderance.

The equation is simple, and if it is followed it leads to happy/more satisfied players = greater player retention = longer player retention= more subscribers = more money.

Its simple, reward effort. That's all it is. Its not some magical wall street worthy credit default mind boggling algorythm.
Set us targets that deliver rewards once achieved. Set them high, but not like the insane amount of work required to get a Lv.99 Emp/Mythic/Relic.
Do not leave things up to chance.
Make doing things actually fun, and apply a reward for doing them. wait, you already did that and it was called Abyssea.
Despite our love for it, you think it was out of B A L A N C E.
Well hold on a second, what should be a greater influencer on your decision making process, the amount of people who enjoyed Abyssea, or some game developer's vision of balance?
Regardless how much Tanaka has under his belt, you've got to come to a realization that his past achievements do not say anything about his current/future achievements.
What has been happening in FFXI since you guys decided to toss the current FFXIV out the door and release version 2.0 in 2013 demonstrates some really bad contigency planning, project management, PR strategy and not to mention basic fundemental understanding of customer satisfaction.

get in the game SE, you're hanging onto nothing more than childhood based loyalty at the moment, and even that has been stretched as far as its going to.


EDIT: one more hint, look at the STUPID amount of events and instances you, SE, have released in FFXI that are just a waste of server memory.
-MMM
-Chocobo racing
-Chocobo raising
-Pankraton
-Beseiged
there's more, I just don't care to waste time even thinking about it.
Its not even worth that. ^^ I like this guy, well said bro.

[Morier]

Threads like these are as plentiful as said logs/ores.

[Luvbunny]

I am sorry, but if Tanaka plan was to create a big riot in FFXI after failing in XIV, well your plan is working very great, keep going.

On another news - patch 1.20 goes live on FF14 and SE seems intend on letting everyone in their mailing list to know about this lol. I have a feeling they are really serious in killing FF11 and hoping that maybe people will move to the brand new shiny FF14 version 2.0 next year. The Unmentionable Team T is doing amazing job in "barancing" the game and pretty much trying to change what the previous team did with Abyssea. All the new contents since June 2011 are pretty much fillers with some good accessories and mostly sidegrade gears. Heck they still not able to tweak Walk of Echoes properly. Voidwatch will be forever knowns as Logwatch, and welcome to the dark ages of FF11, developers marching on ignoring feedback from players and pretend they don't exist other than to pay their salaries and failures on FF14.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

There's been a galka on the server that's been doing akvan in lower multiple times a day for weeks now and I don't think he's gotten anything yet.

[SpankWustler]

the drop system is beyond mortal comprehension.

Sad thing is, I can literally imagine this. I can see a bunch of middle-aged Japanese people scrawling arcane symbols on their ties, sacrificing a virginal black cat by running it through the lamination machine two offices over, then consulting with the spirit of some less-known demon in charge of statistical probability.

Of course, the answer that the demon provided wasn't nonsensical enough for their tastes so they had to wing it. Thus, in memory of the diligent intern the fiend ate before it vanished in a puff of sulfuric smoke, they carefully crafted the Voidwatch's distribution system.

The drops are totally random. The recipients are random too! The only constant rewards are experience points and cruor, which are about as common as air and water respectively.

When someone receives a duplicate of an item he or she already possesses, there is nothing to be done. It can not be given to another. It can not be burned or destroyed or exchanged for something sellable or converted to more cruor or even urinated upon out of spite.

[Juilan]

you didn't play much before abyssea came out, did you?


like it or not, droprates have long been shitty. abyssea was the exception to the rule. most of us loved it, but se seems to think we were wrong.

dunno what more to tell you other than no, it's not glitched.. that's how it is.. and we're "wrong" for wanting it any other way.

it typically wasn't the drop rate that was the issue, with VW you can kill one monster 7 times straight. i haven't seen anyone go 0/7 on anything but wlegs or dring...

[Dragoy]

I defeated the Taisaijin around 30-40+ times for the hat...

Same for Ose...

And... well, the list goes on, but then again, my loot-luck is what it is. ^^


Perhaps, if I tried Voidwatch, the system would go crazy and... treasure for eburibodi!
But yeah, there is more wrong with the treasure-system Voidwatch has, than the drop-rates really. If the system has to be like this, though, increasing the loot by 2, 3, or even 4 times could do well.

I really don't see the old Dynamis-type of thing flying anymore, where we need alliances and years 1 item we want.

Not that having the Dynamis-esque loot-system would not be an improvement, since then at least people who actually want certain items, could lot on them while those who didn't want them, could pass on them...

Alas, I fail to see any hope...

[Mahoro]

I really just don't see why ra/ex drops couldn't appear in the treasure pool and non-rare/ex drops appear in peoples' chests. That way, one person isn't hogging "90 items" like SE fears, since the ra/ex items drop with such low rate to begin with.

When my LS does Voidwatch, all non-rare/ex stuff worth over a certain gil amount is announced and put into the LS pool for DKPing. This alleviates a lot of randomness to VW, but it got to the point where people got capped on gear they wanted, and it is only the ra/ex bodies and weapons people really want.

[Cowardlybabooon]

Why would we want everyone to have the best gear in the game? So you can park yourself in town? I wouldn't mind if they went back to the old system to resurrect HNMLSs but I definitely don't think everyone should be able to get it in the first month, cause no one would keep fighting it.

[Runespider]

I wouldn't mind if they went back to the old system to resurrect HNMLSs but I definitely don't think everyone should be able to get it in the first month, cause no one would keep fighting it.

Thats why everyone is asking for a points system, say 20-30 kills for each NM to be able to buy the points, beats randomness in terms of doing the content.

[Dragoy]

Again, Einherjar.

:[

[Tamoa]

Why would we want everyone to have the best gear in the game? So you can park yourself in town? I wouldn't mind if they went back to the old system to resurrect HNMLSs but I definitely don't think everyone should be able to get it in the first month, cause no one would keep fighting it.

Instead you see complete and utter gimps going 1/1 on something like Toci's Harness, and Mekira Meikogai going to people who can't even equip it (and have absolutely no iterest in any of the jobs that can). Oh and don't forget those that get their 4th Heka's Kalasiris.

How is that any better? Isn't it more fair really, to grind towards a guaranteed result (with an ichor-like system) instead of grinding and quite possibly NEVER getting that specific drop you want? Wouldn't that be the best option of them all? No lootwhoring, no ninja-lotting, no possibility of selling ra/ex drop (if they were made to appear in a treasure pool), no ra/ex stuff going to mules/people that don't have the jobs leveled/lucky gimps who go 1/1, and noone would feel the need to grind their teeth in frustration that someone else got the same ra/ex body for the 5th time.

We'd have to grind. But we'd get what we want in the end.

[Cowardlybabooon]

I'm cool with a point system if it takes forever. But people will moan about that just as much.