More nerfs for War & Ukkos.

[FrankReynolds]

That came and went with abyssea. Short of moving those buffs outside the zone and adjusting mobs accordingly, you're stuck on the same linear rails you were before it. SE has decided to revamp old content which plays a major role in why you progress upward in a linear fashion as opposed to exponentially as in WoW. It would take quite a bit of work to adjust the game in that way and I'd assume that SE has no intention of doing it. Thus, Ukko's needed to be nerfed.


So they design a bunch of new abilities, increase your level by 24, and at the end take all the power they gave you back so that they don't have to build new content to go with it, and that makes sense?


A) The content was already slated for adjustments, but none of those adjustments included the use of atmas and other abyssea buffs.

What content are you referring to? I was unaware that you got similar buffs, or that they had even added said content yet (void watch is technically an offshoot of abyssea).



Removing war... you really think the nerf is going to hit you that hard? You'll still be at the top of the parse doing what you do best, it just won't be multitudes more than other jobs who provide the same. Balancing jobs vs jobs.

My point was that the nerf is not helpful. Even by removing warrior completely (the ultimate nerf) they don't render the content more difficult to complete (still not balancing against content), and the next strongest DD just replaces them (not balancing jobs either). The whole change is pointless and has no positives, only negatives.


In essence, nerfing warrior back down to the level of other DD is the same as bringing other DD up to warrior. The difference is that content can be left how it was intended to be.

Even if they absolutely had to nerf war, they should have worked on fixes and boosts to other jobs first.


There are only two arguments for warrior here. One is that they aren't better than everything else for survivability issues, niche SC usage, ect. and the other is that they don't get to see big numbers. Both of them are lame arguments.

There is actually a third argument: Why waste time building weapons, and meriting when its a crap shoot as to whether SE is gonna come take it away so they can save a few bucks on programming content? This game is entirely about progression. When legitimately earned progress is taken away on a whim, the game loses meaning.

I keep hearing that it's easier to balance by nerfing 1 job than by boosting a bunch of others, or changing all the content. The problem is that changing 1 job doesn't change the content or the other jobs. Besides that, this is a paid subscription service. If it was 4 of my buddies from the computer sciences department making it in a dorm room I'd be like "oh you don't have time to design that? that's cool, the games still awesome.", but its not. Its a paid service, and "that would be a lot of work" is never an excuse. I can't pull that at my job with my customers. Can you?

[Scribble]

So they design a bunch of new abilities, increase your level by 24, and at the end take all the power they gave you back so that they don't have to build new content to go with it, and that makes sense?

I don't know, I mean... I guess there are players who would be content to just keep adding abyssea areas. Did you honestly not know that eventually we'd have to leave abyssea? I guess Joachim is kinda a tease when he says that you'll get stuck if you stay in too long.


What content are you referring to?
The adjusted dynamis, nyzul, ect. Basically everything outside of abyssea that will be tuned to provide a reason for level 99 players to return. You don't get similar buffs, I was stating that to point to the fact that people aren't satisfied with anything else these days.


My point was that the nerf is not helpful.

It's not supposed to be 'helpful'. It's supposed to fix a WS that is broken and it serves that purpose.


Even if they absolutely had to nerf war, they should have worked on fixes and boosts to other jobs first.
Other jobs have adjustments coming, but I'm still not sure why people continually bring this up. Ukko's is warrior exclusive so I'm not sure how other jobs benefit or suffer from an adjustment. You could argue that warrior doing more damage makes fights easier, but they're not going to be all that difficult without it being broken.


Why waste time building weapons, and meriting when its a crap shoot as to whether SE is gonna come take it away so they can save a few bucks on programming content?
That's a question you have to answer for yourself. If you don't like the way the game is headed then you can see the door. If you're satisfied with the service then you keep paying and play.

The purpose of the game, and it is just a game, is enjoyment. If you don't enjoy collecting items for trials then I could ask you the same question; why waste the time? I really can't answer that for you, but I can say that I'm perplexed as to why you would do something you don't enjoy knowing that you really have no control over it other than not participating.

[Tsuneo]

Other jobs have adjustments coming, but I'm still not sure why people continually bring this up. Ukko's is warrior exclusive so I'm not sure how other jobs benefit or suffer from an adjustment. You could argue that warrior doing more damage makes fights easier, but they're not going to be all that difficult without it being broken.

Other jobs will suffer because they aren't getting buffed. Those jobs still suck just as much as they always have. Keep in my SAM and WAR will still be the DD's of choice, so all this nerfing will be for nothing.

[Dart]

I don't understand why people are putting sam in the same group as war, it's a clear #2 but it still isn't close to war. Even with the "nerf" sam still gets crushed for the only real content worth measuring. Voidwatch.

[FrankReynolds]

I don't know, I mean... I guess there are players who would be content to just keep adding abyssea areas. Did you honestly not know that eventually we'd have to leave abyssea? I guess Joachim is kinda a tease when he says that you'll get stuck if you stay in too long.

I don't know why your referencing Abyssea here. Why would they have to make everything for 99 players happen in abyssea?


The adjusted dynamis, nyzul, ect. Basically everything outside of abyssea that will be tuned to provide a reason for level 99 players to return. You don't get similar buffs, I was stating that to point to the fact that people aren't satisfied with anything else these days.

I don't see how why that would have anything to do with nerfing 1-2 jobs.


It's not supposed to be 'helpful'. It's supposed to fix a WS that is broken and it serves that purpose.

How is it broken? What can you only beat if you bring an ukko war to the event? Is the something that ukko is making possible that isn't gonna be possible post nerf, besides wars putting up impressive numbers?


Other jobs have adjustments coming, but I'm still not sure why people continually bring this up. Ukko's is warrior exclusive so I'm not sure how other jobs benefit or suffer from an adjustment. You could argue that warrior doing more damage makes fights easier, but they're not going to be all that difficult without it being broken.

That's just it. If they are nerfing it to balance content, they have failed. If they are nerfing it to balance jobs, that means they are going to have to nerf a whole bunch of other jobs too. Just doing this to a couple of WS / abilities, doesn't really do anything. That means that either they did it for no reason, or there are a lot more bullshit changes coming. Either way, it's pretty screwed for the people owning / building those weapons.



That's a question you have to answer for yourself. If you don't like the way the game is headed then you can see the door. If you're satisfied with the service then you keep paying and play.

And that's the attitude that got us to where we are. "If you don't like it then don't pay for it, because we don't care what you think" is a poor business model.


The purpose of the game, and it is just a game, is enjoyment. If you don't enjoy collecting items for trials then I could ask you the same question; why waste the time? I really can't answer that for you, but I can say that I'm perplexed as to why you would do something you don't enjoy knowing that you really have no control over it other than not participating.

I'm perplexed as to why you would want to have no control over it. Why do you want them to come take the things you work for in this game? I think your point of view is far more perplexing than mine.

[Scribble]

Ukko's is broken(mentioned pages ago) because of the modifier. A quick glance at the upcoming 'nerf' should have made that clear, but if you missed it 80% crit is ridiculous. Now that we got that out of the way, again...

When a WS is broken you make adjustments to that WS, not to the content. SE did fail, but the failure was not realizing how stupid such a high modifier would be on a high damage weapon considering how quickly people can fire off at 300 TP these days(stay tuned corsairs). If they had put everyone on godmode empyreans and the encounters were the same then you'd have a point.

The 'Don't like it, don't pay' business model has been working since dirt. The silly thing about all this is you keep saying that something is being taken away from you like warrior won't still be top DD. At worst you won't be able to post youtube videos or pics of big numbers, but you will still remain at the top of the parse, you will still be able to do your job and you will still be in high demand.

Why so sad?

[FrankReynolds]

Ukko's is broken(mentioned pages ago) because of the modifier. A quick glance at the upcoming 'nerf' should have made that clear, but if you missed it 80% crit is ridiculous. Now that we got that out of the way, again...

We didn't really get anything out of the way. All we have determined is that you think its too strong. Broken is when it has an unintentional effect. The weapon skilled is behaving exactly how they planned it, tested it, and allowed it to behave for months. They just decided to make it weaker.


When a WS is broken you make adjustments to that WS, not to the content. SE did fail, but the failure was not realizing how stupid such a high modifier would be on a high damage weapon considering how quickly people can fire off at 300 TP these days(stay tuned corsairs). If they had put everyone on godmode empyreans and the encounters were the same then you'd have a point.

They are revamping every major event for the most part. They just finished raising our levels. see the time line? First we get powerful weapons, then they add content for that. Not the other way around. We already had the weapons. The new content still hasn't even been finished.


The 'Don't like it, don't pay' business model has been working since like dirt.

FFXIV would beg to differ.


The silly thing about all this is you keep saying that something is being taken away from you like warrior won't still be top DD.

Your missing the bigger picture. They are nerfing it because fixing (insert w/e job it is you think is gaining from this <here>) is more work. This is actually a nerf to the game. Not war or monk.


At worst you won't be able to post youtube videos or pics of big numbers, but you will still remain at the top of the parse, you will still be able to do your job and you will still be in high demand.

Why so sad?

I'm sad, because I was hoping for some new fights that were different from ones in the past, and some new more powerful magic / weapon skills / abilities, that would be needed to defeat new more powerful enemies. But instead, they are just going to tune us down so that the old stuff isn't too easy.

I still don't understand your desire to rationalize this. What has a warrior or monk with a high WS number ever done to affect your life in a negative way?

[Scribble]

The WS is overpowered. Period.

FFXIV actually proves my point. People got a shitty game and decided to voice their opinions by not playing. That was actually the reason these forums exist. Shortly after dumping Tanaka and apologizing profusely, SE decided an official forum to make players feel like their opinions would be taken into account. Instead, ignorant asshats think that SE owes them something and/or have decided they can do a better job designing the game.

For the final fucking time, they are not adjusting the WS because of some other job feeling inferior.

I wanted some better content too, but whether or not we get it remains to be seen. I don't have anything at all personal against either or any of the jobs in XI. I just don't think making an obvious adjustment qualifies as a cop out for adjusting content. It should be obvious to the oblivious.

[FrankReynolds]

The WS is overpowered. Period.

..... the WS isn't overpowered. Period. You have yet to describe any benefits to the damage to being lowered other than making it fit into your comfort zone for weapon skill power.


FFXIV actually proves my point. People got a shitty game and decided to voice their opinions by not playing. That was actually the reason these forums exist. Shortly after dumping Tanaka and apologizing profusely, SE decided an official forum to make players feel like their opinions would be taken into account. Instead, ignorant asshats think that SE owes them something and/or have decided they can do a better job designing the game.

Ermmm I think you better re-read what you just wrote there. How does a game failing due to lack of response to player input, and an official forum being created to rectify the problem, demonstrate the value of ignoring player opinion? And FYI: I Pay them. They do owe me something. If you disagree with this theory, feel free to send me all your cash. I promise to do nothing for you.


For the final fucking time, they are not adjusting the WS because of some other job feeling inferior.

I think I already stated 20-30 times that it will do nothing for any other job. Now that we cleared that up, please explain who it will help.


I wanted some better content too, but whether or not we get it remains to be seen. I don't have anything at all personal against either or any of the jobs in XI. I just don't think making an obvious adjustment qualifies as a cop out for adjusting content. It should be obvious to the oblivious.

Obvious would be concentrating on the 1,000+ threads on this site alone about game imbalance problems completely unrelated to the jobs currently in question. While I'm sure some will agree that the WS is overpowered, I highly doubt anyone was thinking that nerfing Ukko's and V smite was going to fix anything in the game, other than a couple of peoples egos.

[Saiken253]

I think this might help clear up some of the argument... a point in nerfing Ukko is to make more DDs become less unappealing (because their damage will be less overshadowed by WAR) allowing people to play a job that they enjoy, instead of bringing a job that can be played by facerolling and do massive damage.

However, I do agree that this is not the way that SE should be handling this. Yes instead they should be working on improving/correcting/release from beta(looking at smn) and not nerf; but SE is lazy and they want to kill their game and their reputation as a gaming company so that they don't have to listen to all the unhappy consumers(at least that's the message that I'm getting haha~. ff13, 14 and such contribute to this!).

Back on track, they only need to do a few simple fixes to the battle system tbh. Improve fTP values of the underpowered DDs and remove atk penalties. And for those that still love abyssea(though this makes complete sense in my mind) just make everything crit. Magic crits already, why can't all WSs crit normally now =\. Just a few ideas that I'm simply reiterating; they're all over the forums, but SE probably finds them overpowered/foolish/too much work/<insert reason here>.

[Tamoa]

That's a question you have to answer for yourself. If you don't like the way the game is headed then you can see the door.

This is one argument I see used by a lot of players when others are voicing their disapproval of something SE does. What you all seem to fail to realize though, is that if all the dissatisfied players quit, it will eventually directly affect those that want to keep playing. Too many people quitting = subscription numbers going down = server population going down = less income for SE = more server merges?

What really boggles my mind about this nerf, is that it took SE over 1 full year to decide Ukkos is "broken" and to nerf it. They even BOOSTED the damage at one point, ffs. It makes no sense and just shows a complete disregard for their playerbase, and I have to agree with those that believe this is a sign of things to come. I.e. it being highly likely that other jobs will be hit by nerfs in the future.

[Siiri]

What really boggles my mind about this nerf, is that it took SE over 1 full year to decide Ukkos is "broken" and to nerf it. They even BOOSTED the damage at one point, ffs. It makes no sense and just shows a complete disregard for their playerbase, and I have to agree with those that believe this is a sign of things to come. I.e. it being highly likely that other jobs will be hit by nerfs in the future.

Actually I don't think other jobs will be nerfed. SE specifically singled out WAR in the roadpath as having "an adjustment in firepower." It is right there in one of there announcements. When they made the restraint "nerf" they said future adjustments to WAR if the expected results isn't reached. (Who really thought the restraint adjustment was going to negatively affect anyone but the very best wars who fully used it.) They haven't made a peep about any other jobs, except RDM and SAM at 75 being too powerful. I would ignore something as old as their 75 statements anyway.

[StingRay104]

OK I think its time I give the war base a little history lesson because they could use it.

Remember the SAM nerf? What SAM got nerfed? When? After 2 handed update SAM got nerfed hard, they reduced 2 handed weapons from the broken state it was introduced at to its current state, at the same time they nerfed ygk at 100% from 1.5 ftp to 1.3785. This seriously hurt SAMs damage as they were no longer as adapt to doing the big numbers as was necassary to keep up with the heavy hitters, unless they got a hagun. It was from that point til Masamune was introduced that hagun was the only acceptable weapon for SAM, anything else was garbage. When it comes to content anytime it becomes absolutely neccesary to have 1 specific weapon then that job has become broken, from a game mechanics point of view, and therefore it needs to be corrected. After abyssea introduced many new gkts with strength far superior to hagun they finally unnerfed ygk, in fact they increased it from its original 1.5 ftp to a 1.56 ftp. So its not the end of the world, eventually content will come about to make everything better and SE will in fact unnerf Ukko's, but for now it is too powerful.

As for the arguements of setting difficulty to current power of jobs, well they actually did, its just war was too powerful and makes it seem way to easy. Now if they had set it to wars prenerf strength then how could any other job even participate? They wouldn't be allowed, hell most the shouts are ukko war or gtfo. Sure SAM may take its place at the head of the table for now, or most likely war will still be up there, but as long as war stays so far above everyone else SE will just flat out ignore giving you new content. You want new content for war right?

Finally time to end this war is the best DD ever and no one should be able to beat it ever nonsense. War was originally intended to be the melee jack of all trades, and master of none. However over the years SE has only been adding to its firepower, its funny because if you look at it logically DRK has the highest attack in the game, it also has an ability to sacrifice its hp for more damage. If you consider that then a DRK going all out should be the highest damage in the game, despite its killing itself to achieve this feat. War should always be a strong heavy dd, and by no means should a skilled war ever be out done by a non skilled whatever, but at this point noob wars with ukko's can outparse anything and thats just wrong.

I know it sucks having SE fuck with your job, I play DRK and PUP mainly and it has not been fun getting screwed every update til recently (Yeah PUPdate) but now war can join the rest of the jobs and actually get something decent.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Don't feel like changing all the gears, assumed a high level mob, ftp nerf of Y/G/K reduced damage of non hagun Sam by... ~2% if that...?

[Khajit]

The blows SAM got from SE are not the blows you are thinking sherlock.

[Dart]

Don't feel like changing all the gears, assumed a high level mob, ftp nerf of Y/G/K reduced damage of non hagun Sam by... ~2% if that...?

also he completely fails to point out that sam and war were fully interchangeable at 75 cap (which is when the sam "nerf" was implemented), in a few ways sam pulled ahead for overall utility over war. It wasn't until ukko's that war completely dominated the scene. Truth be told this started before ukko's with the 80 cap. We noticed how war out performed every job on AV zergs without a relic or anything super impressive gear wise. Just basic stuff.

Something had to be done about ukko's it was too powerful (and yes war is the job that i'm on second most and I love it, but it is just ridiculously overpowered).

Even with this, it is still the premier dd in the game. it just won't marginalize every other dd job to such an extend.

[Scribble]

What really boggles my mind about this nerf, is that it took SE over 1 full year to decide Ukkos is "broken" and to nerf it. It makes no sense and just shows a complete disregard for their playerbase, and I have to agree with those that believe this is a sign of things to come. I.e. it being highly likely that other jobs will be hit by nerfs in the future.

If your job is too powerful, you can expect a nerf. In other MMOs that actually adjust the jobs skills and abilities, it happens quite a bit and people get used to it. If they were disregarding the playerbase, you wouldn't see any updates at all.

It's perfectly ok to state your disapproval, but at least pick something worthwhile to make a stink about. Who really feels bad for a job that post-nerf is still top DD and still the most wanted DD for most relevant content? Complete disregard... gtfo

[wish12oz]

The analogy serves it's purpose if you actually understand the point of it. It is less work to fix one thing than to fix twenty other things.

If they didn't just add a new WS with new animations for every weapon, you might have a point, but as it stands, you don't.


a DRK going all out should be the highest damage in the game

You never saw a DRK with a Kraken Club? It IS the best damage in the game.


noob wars with ukko's can outparse anything and thats just wrong

They actually can't.

[Dart]

You never saw a DRK with a Kraken Club? It WAS the best damage in the game.

.

more accurate

technically we don't even have 2 hours anymore ; ;

[Tamoa]

If your job is too powerful, you can expect a nerf. In other MMOs that actually adjust the jobs skills and abilities, it happens quite a bit and people get used to it. If they were disregarding the playerbase, you wouldn't see any updates at all.

It's perfectly ok to state your disapproval, but at least pick something worthwhile to make a stink about. Who really feels bad for a job that post-nerf is still top DD and still the most wanted DD for most relevant content? Complete disregard... gtfo

And whose to decide if a job is too powerful or not? I don't find Ukon war at its current state too powerful. Powerful, yes. Unbalanced compared to most other melee jobs, yes. But like plenty of others have said, you balance UP, not down. I.e. make the other melee jobs better. SE apparently has decided that Ukon war is "too powerful" - and like I said, it took them well over one full year to decide that, while they in the meantime indirectly even boosted Ukon war's damage.

This coming war (and Vere mnk) nerf, combined with their unwillingness to improve certain jobs which have been left in the dust (rdm and drk comes to mind), the utterly ridiculous new relic and mythic trials (I really hope they get adjusted down, a LOT), the already extremely tedious 95 empyrean trial (unless you have a shitton of gil and even then you are limited by actual supply) and other things, such as voidwatch reward system - yes it does show a complete disregard for their player base. In my opinion.

So gtfo yourself.

[tyrantsyn]

Finally time to end this war is the best DD ever and no one should be able to beat it ever nonsense. War was originally intended to be the melee jack of all trades, and master of none. However over the years SE has only been adding to its firepower, its funny because if you look at it logically DRK has the highest attack in the game, it also has an ability to sacrifice its hp for more damage. If you consider that then a DRK going all out should be the highest damage in the game, despite its killing itself to achieve this feat. War should always be a strong heavy dd, and by no means should a skilled war ever be out done by a non skilled whatever, but at this point noob wars with ukko's can outparse anything and thats just wrong.
.

I read your whole post but these 2 lines bug me the most.

1: Jack of all trades, and master of none.

2:Noob wars out parsing anything

If WARS are anything there a base job. Which i can understand jack of all thing's melee "tho I don't like using that term with WAR it's more of a RDM thing." The master of none I don't quite agree with. WAR's have always had some of the best access to increase damage output and are still consider the best sub for that purpose. With UF they gain a WS that play into there strength's and that's what really has pushed WAR up to the fore front. Other's job classes deserve the same treatment in my opinion. So to say there a master of none just doesn't fit. Even before the level cap increase they were more than a solid DD.

Noob's do not out parse well gear DD jobs just because they have a Ukon. In abyssea atma's can be tailor made to make any one's damage output massive. Ukon WAR's benefit the most thanx in part of VV/RR/APOC/cruor buffs and Temp items. Which when all used can sky rocket there numbers. But out side against VWNM's or other mobs the table's aren't so lop sided.

These nerf's are not whats good for this game. The player base has been asking for better damage option for their job classes. And these nerf's are just and easy way of saying "look now they don't do so much damage." In the mean while there's no real improvement's that the player base actually wanted in the first place. People who main WAR or MNK who are effected by the changes are going to be upset and while they might not all collective quit it'll cause a butterfly effect down the line.

[macross]

They are nerfing it now, so when they add the new crit+ critdmg+ armors ukko's won't be 100% crit.

[Xantavia]

I think the major issue is that if every job was brought up to the same level, then the content would have to be adjusted to the new baseline. If this happened, what about all the people who aren't able to get an empyrean weapon? Does it mean they shouldn't be able to do certain content because they don't have one specific weapon for their job?

I agree with the decision to balance these WS with others. I've always hated the mentality of "X job or gtfo". I have no problem with the uniqueness of what one DD has over another, but in the end all choices should be viable. Are the nerfs really going to hurt so much that nobody will want WAR or MNK ever again?

[Tsuneo]

Are the nerfs really going to hurt so much that nobody will want WAR or MNK ever again?
The nerf won't hurt WAR all that bad. As it was already mentioned, WAR will still be the premier DD. WAR is still going to completely destroy most jobs. The only thing it did was slightly close the gap between SAM and WAR. Nothing is going to change because those jobs that were less desirable are going to stay that way. There will be no positive effect for weaker jobs from this like people lead themselves to believe there will be.

[Meldity]

I don't understand why WAR's are so annoyed with the nerf, being the strongest DD already and STILL ARE even after the nerf. I gander the lot of you are a bunch of muppets.

[FrankReynolds]

I don't understand why WAR's are so annoyed with the nerf, being the strongest DD already and STILL ARE even after the nerf. I gander the lot of you are a bunch of muppets.

Why would anybody be happy about having something they like taken away? Think about it.



FYI: This nerf isn't just to war. It's monk, and to some extent pup too. Half the people in this thread arguing against the nerf don't even play hose jobs, and half the ones arguing for it do.Gotta look at the bigger picture.

EDIT: Muppet.... seriously? Try harder.

[Scribble]

And whose to decide if a job is too powerful or not?
The developers. I'd like to hope that most of us saw it coming, but apparently there are many warriors who are bum-blistered because they can't take the power they had in abyssea outside to play.


Unbalanced compared to most other melee jobs, yes.
You could have stopped there.

But like plenty of others have said, you balance UP, not down. I.e. make the other melee jobs better. SE apparently has decided that Ukon war is "too powerful" - and like I said, it took them well over one full year to decide that, while they in the meantime indirectly even boosted Ukon war's damage.
The other jobs are much better balanced to the current content than warrior. What you are suggesting is that SE adjust all of those jobs and then adjust all of that content to suit one job. Narcissistic much?

"Dear SE, redesign the entire fucking game around me. I am supposed to be the top DD and I'm obviously the most important. kthx"

"Dear entitled warrior. I have run out of tissues, but you are still the top DD so please stop crying. <3 Tanaka"

[FrankReynolds]

The developers. I'd like to hope that most of us saw it coming, but apparently there are many warriors who are bum-blistered because they can't take the power they had in abyssea outside to play.

It wasn't just war. You seem to have a vendetta.



You could have stopped there.

Why, because all you care about is making jobs that you don't like weaker?


The other jobs are much better balanced to the current content than warrior. What you are suggesting is that SE adjust all of those jobs and then adjust all of that content to suit one job. Narcissistic much?

There you go again. First off they didn't just nerf 1 job. Second, They need to a adjust all those jobs, which means they need to adjust all the content anyways. Your fear of giant phallic Great Axes has clouded your vision. In reality, it would have made a lot more sense to design the content correctly the first time.


"Dear SE, redesign the entire fucking game around me. I am supposed to be the top DD and I'm obviously the most important. kthx"

"Dear entitled warrior. I have run out of tissues, but you are still the top DD so please stop crying. <3 Tanaka"

You are very short sighted, and a little emotional considering the fact that you think this is a positive change. why are you so mad?

[Scribble]

TBH I don't have anything against warrior specifically. I do have something against people who feel that their job is entitled to be better that everything else; so much so that they are so blinded by it that they can't recognize that changes to reduce their power are warranted.

I've only mentioned warrior because this is after all, the warrior forum. In your previous post you mention MNK and PUP, but hardly anyone mentions Blood Rage which actually has a broader impact and affects more jobs than that.

She could have stopped there because she'd admitted that warrior was overpowered and not balanced in relation to other jobs. I'm not going to pretend that other jobs including warrior don't need adjustments. Everyone wants a powerful job, but the fact is that the content doesn't support it.

You keep ignoring it, but I'll keep stressing the fact that XI scales more in a straight line than an exponential curve. The abilities jobs have gained access to in the past 24 levels, the support abilities that have been made available and the increase in the quality of gear are all outpacing the content. I agree that this needs to be looked at, but it's obvious that certain jobs have gained more from that effect than others.

I'm not mad, just annoyed. I find it ironic that warriors are upset for whatever reason and somehow attach other jobs needing buffs to it. Warrior has been viable since day 1. All of a sudden your broken damage is scaled back and everyone comes to the defense of RDM and DRK... wtf?

[FrankReynolds]

TBH I don't have anything against warrior specifically. I do have something against people who feel that their job is entitled to be better that everything else; so much so that they are so blinded by it that they can't recognize that changes to reduce their power are warranted.

It's funny, because at least 10 times i have said (and you have quoted some of them) that the issue was with them not scaling content, and not buffing jobs that desperately need it. I also said: "Half the people in this thread arguing against the nerf don't even play those jobs, and half the ones arguing for it do.". Take a look for yourself, and see how many of these "people who feel that their job is entitled......" actually have Ukkons.


I've only mentioned warrior because this is after all, the warrior forum. In your previous post you mention MNK and PUP, but hardly anyone mentions Blood Rage which actually has a broader impact and affects more jobs than that.

Yes, they also mentioned enhancing double attack etc. This part appears to actually be a nerf to everyone but war really. Again not really any help to the jobs that need it. More of a side grade to war depending on what "phase 2" is.


She could have stopped there because she'd admitted that warrior was overpowered and not balanced in relation to other jobs. I'm not going to pretend that other jobs including warrior don't need adjustments. Everyone wants a powerful job, but the fact is that the content doesn't support it.

You keep ignoring it, but I'll keep stressing the fact that XI scales more in a straight line than an exponential curve. The abilities jobs have gained access to in the past 24 levels, the support abilities that have been made available and the increase in the quality of gear are all outpacing the content. I agree that this needs to be looked at, but it's obvious that certain jobs have gained more from that effect than others.

And this is exactly the problem. If they don't fix the content, the only thing left to do is keep weak jobs weak, and make strong jobs weaker. That is a terrible design, and totally screwed for people who put work into these jobs / weapons. Everyone should be pissed about this. Especially people who are on jobs / weapons that aren't good right now.


I'm not mad, just annoyed. I find it ironic that warriors are upset for whatever reason and somehow attach other jobs needing buffs to it. Warrior has been viable since day 1. All of a sudden your broken damage is scaled back and everyone comes to the defense of RDM and DRK... wtf?

Because believe it or not, it is possible to have war, rdm, and drk leveled and geared all at the same time. I have yet to meet the guy who built ukkon or vere, and only has 1 level 99 job.

[Scribble]

The content doesn't scale because 75 was supposed to be the cap forever. If SE had intended to go beyond that(notice how foresight failure is becoming a theme here) then characters and mobs would have increased in power faster than they did. Instead, there is about the same difference in power between a level 50 and 55 character as there is between a 70 and 75 character.

It doesn't matter how many people actually have the weapon. It isn't a necessity that you own something to be able to tell how it works in practice. I don't own a Ferrari, but I know they eat up road like nothing else.

SE has decided that their opportunity to scale characters to higher power is going to come in the form of instance specific events like Abyssea. As I've already stated Ukko's being broken wasn't a factor there, but depending on what becomes of endgame in XI, it very well may be broken elsewhere and it happens to be the case in VWNM. It's also completely possible that future gear will ascend warrior close to, if not completely back to the current 80% crit rate for Ukko's.

It remains to be seen, but at least give the 99 cap time to settle in before you rush to dismiss a change that doesn't have that much of an impact overall.

[FrankReynolds]

The point wasn't that people would need to have one to know what it can do. The point was that the evil self entitled warriors that you are railing against are in fact not warriors at all. On a side note you also don't need to own a ferrari to know that if someone came and popped the tires, it would suck for the guy that owned it. The things you are saying are akin to looking at your neighbors smashed up ferrari and going "Psshhh. Big deal. it's not like he can't afford another one.". It's not gonna make your Toyota any better. In fact, the people who did it may be visiting your ride next.

[Tamoa]

TBH I don't have anything against warrior specifically. I do have something against people who feel that their job is entitled to be better that everything else; so much so that they are so blinded by it that they can't recognize that changes to reduce their power are warranted.



She could have stopped there because she'd admitted that warrior was overpowered and not balanced in relation to other jobs. I'm not going to pretend that other jobs including warrior don't need adjustments. Everyone wants a powerful job, but the fact is that the content doesn't support it.


1. I do not feel my job is entitled to be better than everything else. In fact I'm much in favour of SE making other melee jobs stronger - like I said, balance UP not down. And before you try twisting that statement: I am NOT saying every other melee jobs should be just as powerful as war and thus breaking the game according to you. But again, balance UP and not down.

2. I did NOT say or in any way admit that warrior is overpowered. I said it's powerful, and unbalanced compared to most other melee jobs. Yet again, balance UP not down.



I'm not mad, just annoyed.

Why? Why even bother wasting energy on getting annoyed over something that apparently doesn't have any impact on the jobs you play in this game?



I find it ironic that warriors are upset for whatever reason and somehow attach other jobs needing buffs to it. Warrior has been viable since day 1. All of a sudden your broken damage is scaled back and everyone comes to the defense of RDM and DRK... wtf?

Are you saying rdms and drks should be content about their jobs as they are today?


I have to say after seeing several forum members rubbing their hands in glee and going "hahahaaa your favourite job got nerfed" I can't help but feel it's all just a matter of jealousy.

[Scribble]

1. I do not feel my job is entitled to be better than everything else. In fact I'm much in favour of SE making other melee jobs stronger - like I said, balance UP not down. And before you try twisting that statement: I am NOT saying every other melee jobs should be just as powerful as war and thus breaking the game according to you. But again, balance UP and not down.

2. I did NOT say or in any way admit that warrior is overpowered. I said it's powerful, and unbalanced compared to most other melee jobs. Yet again, balance UP not down.
1) I never twisted your words. The fact is that it doesn't matter because the rest of the jobs are closer to being balanced to current content. Why make all jobs more powerful and have laughable content?

2) Semantics. Your exact words were...

I don't find Ukon war at its current state too powerful. Powerful, yes. Unbalanced compared to most other melee jobs, yes.
Translation:
Warrior is OP.

Ukon warrior is easily ahead of the other melee jobs. The issue is that Ukko's is OP for the content.

Solution:
Reduce the power of Ukko's > Create harder content = Buff jobs for harder content


I have to say after seeing several forum members rubbing their hands in glee and going "hahahaaa your favourite job got nerfed" I can't help but feel it's all just a matter of jealousy.
What reason would anyone have to be jealous of warrior? Perhaps because they're overpowered? Why can't you admit it. You're pleading for SE to increase the power of other jobs so you don't look as OP, yet you refuse to admit it. I couldn't care less if they change it or leave it the same. I just think it's silly for people to overlook it like it isn't broken.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Did VW suddenly become harder from this nerf? No
Did Pup/Thf/Bst suddenly become more viable on harder content? No


Nothing's really changed, just the top two DD do less less damage, Sam isn't as overshadowed by War/Mnk, anyone who benefitted from the crit damage on BR doesn't anymore, Drk got a decent GS WS.

[Insaniac]

BALANCE!!

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/47fecc31309a8f15a3af5b3095eaebf1.jpg

Borealis is pumping out 3-5k resolutions. 5k WSs with a weapon you get as a lucky drop is ok but not with a weapon you spent days/months obtaining. Epic balancing.

[Scribble]

BALANCE!!

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/47fecc31309a8f15a3af5b3095eaebf1.jpg

Borealis is pumping out 3-5k resolutions. 5k WSs with a weapon you get as a lucky drop is ok but not with a weapon you spents days/months obtaining. Epic balancing.

Quickly... to the bandwagon!

[Insaniac]

Quickly... to the bandwagon!
You joke but this kinda craps all over your "They are balancing jobs against content" theory. Doesn't it? Arbitrary nerf is now officially arbitrary.

[Tamoa]

Translation:
Warrior is OP.

That is how you chose to translate what I said.



Ukon warrior is easily ahead of the other melee jobs.

Never denied that (assuming the Ukon owner knows wtf they're doing, otherwise they might aswell be swinging a Vermeil Bhuj).



The issue is that Ukko's is OP for the content.

Exactly which content are we talking about here?



Why can't you admit it. You're pleading for SE to increase the power of other jobs so you don't look as OP, yet you refuse to admit it.

You're allowed to believe that if you so chose, however it is not the truth. War isn't my only job, you know (and before anyone calls me a bandwagon war - it was my very first 75 job), I have a lot of other jobs I like to play, and I have good friends whose favourite jobs have been largely ignored and/or given laughable buffs ever since the level cap was raised the first time. Contrary to what you think, I'm not only looking out for myself and my favourite job here. When I say I would love to see other jobs being made better, it's not because it will make my war seem "less OP". Why SE decides to nerf jobs and job abilities and pissing off a lot of players by doing so, instead of making other jobs more powerful and making a lot of players happy instead, is beyond me.

[Scribble]

You joke but this kinda craps all over your "They are balancing jobs against content" theory. Doesn't it? Arbitrary nerf is now officially arbitrary.

It isn't a theory. What I posted was the suggested way, not the way SE does it.

Introduce over-tuned content > introduce/buff/nerf player spells and abilities > buff/nerf content

Protip: Resolution is another lolscythe adjustment to keep emo DRKs curled up in a ball.

[Scribble]

That is how you chose to translate what I said.
If you're speaking about Ukko's then unbalanced means one of two things. Overpowered or underpowered. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not that stupid to think it's the latter.


Exactly which content are we talking about here?
Endgame.

I don't care what your jobs are, which jobs you enjoy playing and which friends you carry along with you. None of that is relevant to the adjustment.

An Ukko warrior who sincerely cares about other jobs being buffed is just as, in your own words 'unbalanced', as one who doesn't give a shit. Big deal.

You can please some of the people... you can't make them all great DD when they already rip through what should be {Incredibly Tough} content like it's {Easy Prey}. They might enjoy being 'unbalanced', but unless there is some sort of challenge to it they'll just get bored and end up quitting anyway.

[Tamoa]

If you're speaking about Ukko's then unbalanced means one of two things. Overpowered or underpowered.

I'll go with the majority of other weaponskills being underpowered, how about that? Arguing semantics gets us nowhere.



Endgame.

And what do you consider to be endgame in FFXI in 2012?



don't care what your jobs are, which jobs you enjoy playing and which friends you carry along with you. None of that is relevant to the adjustment.

It most certainly is relevant. I want my friends to continue playing this game. I don't want them to get fed up and annoyed with SE to the point where they decide to quit. Maybe this nerf alone won't make them quit, but it could very well be the straw that broke the camel's back for some, and it certainly adds to the feeling a lot of us have about SE not giving a damn about their player base.



An Ukko warrior who sincerely cares about other jobs being buffed is just as, in your own words 'unbalanced', as one who doesn't give a shit. Big deal.

Not even sure what you are trying to say here.



You can please some of the people... you can't make them all great DD when they already rip through what should be {Incredibly Tough} content like it's {Easy Prey}. They might enjoy being 'unbalanced', but unless there is some sort of challenge to it they'll just get bored and end up quitting anyway.

You've been using the word "content" in almost all your posts. I still don't know what content you are referring to, saying "endgame" doesn't really explain anything either. What exactly is this content that should be incredibly tough which DDs rip through like it's easy prey?

[Brolic]

The nerf won't hurt WAR all that bad. As it was already mentioned, WAR will still be the premier DD. WAR is still going to completely destroy most jobs. The only thing it did was slightly close the gap between SAM and WAR. Nothing is going to change because those jobs that were less desirable are going to stay that way. There will be no positive effect for weaker jobs from this like people lead themselves to believe there will be.

actually things will change, all those jobs that didn't get invited will get invited less now. instead of 2 ukko wars killing kaggen in 5 mins people will now just take 4 and forego other melees to ensure that 5 min kill.

[Tsuneo]

actually things will change, all those jobs that didn't get invited will get invited less now. instead of 2 ukko wars killing kaggen in 5 mins people will now just take 4 and forego other melees to ensure that 5 min kill.
Good point, I stand corrected.

[Brolic]

sorry for party hoggin

[Insaniac]

Protip: Resolution is another lolscythe adjustment to keep emo DRKs curled up in a ball. Do you work for gamepro? Because that's a terrible protip. You can keep making jokes but a SS of a 5k resolution being performed while a nerf to Ukko's looms on the test server just makes you pause for a second and say ".....what?...." Taking the power to do 5k WSs away from an effort based weapon and giving it to a luck based weapon destroys any credibility the "balance card" had left.

The V.smite/Ukko's and Blood Rage nerf needs to be dialed back or completely removed.

[Riaurio]

[QUOTE=Scribble;256318]TBH I don't have anything against warrior specifically. I do have something against people who feel that their job is entitled to be better that everything else; so much so that they are so blinded by it that they can't recognize that changes to reduce their power are warranted.QUOTE]

Character:Scribble
World:Shiva
Main Job:WHM lv. 90

Sooo im guessing your in favor of rdm and sch getting cure v and vi no ?

Maybe all jobs should get the same TH as thf ? We could also give all jobs the same defense and abilities as pld..

Hell why not give every job the exact same JA/spells/def/attack/ws, make them all take the exact same amount of dmg and do the exact same amount of dmg then ppl couldnt complain about other jobs being OP.

[Siiri]

Do you work for gamepro? Because that's a terrible protip. You can keep making jokes but a SS of a 5k resolution being performed while a nerf to Ukko's looms on the test server just makes you pause for a second and say ".....what?...." Taking the power to do 5k WSs away from an effort based weapon and giving it to a luck based weapon destroys any credibility the "balance card" had left.

The V.smite/Ukko's and Blood Rage nerf needs to be dialed back or completely removed.

People really think Ukko's having a 80% crit rate at 300% wasn't overpowered? That was so out of line compared to every single other weaponskill in the game. Victory smite was nowhere close to that, I can see the argument there more.

As for the Resolution screenshot, that was a screenshot, not a parse, not a true reflection of the event. There are parses all over the place where WAR craps all over every other DD. Some random screenshot doesn't make something overpowered. I am sure SE pulled logs, parses etc to find out how overpowered Ukko's was. In a few threads in the war forum, the g.sword and war one in particular, someone makes the argument DRK "isn't even a DD." Now WARs are afraid of a non crit g.sword weaponskill from a loldrk. Please.

[Tsuneo]

I don't know why people keep bringing up 300% TP having 80% crit rate. Who the hell was even weaponskilling at 300% TP? I always weaponskill as soon as I hit 100% TP. I don't see 80% crit rate being that broken considering that you could've weaponskilled three times instead of once at 300% TP.

[Siiri]

I don't know why people keep bringing up 300% TP having 80% crit rate. Who the hell was even weaponskilling at 300% TP? I always weaponskill as soon as I hit 100% TP. I don't see 80% crit rate being that broken considering that you could've weaponskilled three times instead of once at 300% TP.

Ok, so what was the crit rate at 100%, 40%? What other ws has a crit rate of 40% at 100 tp?

[Brolic]

Ok, so what was the crit rate at 100%, 40%? What other ws has a crit rate of 40% at 100 tp?

any thf ws

[Brolic]

I don't know why people keep bringing up 300% TP having 80% crit rate. Who the hell was even weaponskilling at 300% TP? I always weaponskill as soon as I hit 100% TP. I don't see 80% crit rate being that broken considering that you could've weaponskilled three times instead of once at 300% TP.

voidwatch temps

[Siiri]

any thf ws
Any 2 handed weaponskill?

[Brolic]

Any 2 handed weaponskill?

/thf works too

[FrankReynolds]

Ok, so what was the crit rate at 100%, 40%? What other ws has a crit rate of 40% at 100 tp?

Why would another ws be the same as ukkos?

[Taint2]

I don't know why people keep bringing up 300% TP having 80% crit rate. Who the hell was even weaponskilling at 300% TP? I always weaponskill as soon as I hit 100% TP. I don't see 80% crit rate being that broken considering that you could've weaponskilled three times instead of once at 300% TP.


Up your temp game.

[Taint2]

Rag+Resolution WARs don't hold a candle to Ukko WARs, except when 2hr is up and even then its close. I spent the morning parsing VW with Shanian and was destroying him on my DRK, won every parse by 4-8% margin. When he goes with Ukon I win 1 in 5 if that.

[Insaniac]

People really think Ukko's having a 80% crit rate at 300% wasn't overpowered? That was so out of line compared to every single other weaponskill in the game. Victory smite was nowhere close to that, I can see the argument there more.

As for the Resolution screenshot, that was a screenshot, not a parse, not a true reflection of the event. There are parses all over the place where WAR craps all over every other DD. Some random screenshot doesn't make something overpowered. I am sure SE pulled logs, parses etc to find out how overpowered Ukko's was. In a few threads in the war forum, the g.sword and war one in particular, someone makes the argument DRK "isn't even a DD." Now WARs are afraid of a non crit g.sword weaponskill from a loldrk. Please. How is it possible to miss every single point in a 300 post thread? No it's not a parse but every WS that drk did was 3k-5k. Who cares if it crits or not. Who cares if it's a DRK. If you are saying 5k WSs are unacceptable from a WAR and that's why this nerf is justified then they are also unacceptable from a DRK and the fact that SE is allowing it makes the nerf to Ukko's 100% arbitrary. Most likely based off the opinion of people like you who don't understand that job balance has a lot more to it than how much damage they can do.

Those WSs also came from a weapon he just lucked into. Not a weapon he put days/months of deliberate work into.

[Scribble]

You can keep making jokes but a SS of a 5k resolution being performed while a nerf to Ukko's looms on the test server just makes you pause for a second and say ".....what?...." Taking the power to do 5k WSs away from an effort based weapon and giving it to a luck based weapon destroys any credibility the "balance card" had left.

If that's all it takes to destroy the balance card then you're suggesting that the rank for WS from best to worst should be Mythic > Relic > Empyrean and your argument for Ukon is shot anyway. Also, considering that it used to be harder to acquire a Relic, should those who completed them pre neo-dyna have access to a more potent WS?


Character:Scribble
World:Shiva
Main Job:WHM lv. 90

Sooo im guessing your in favor of rdm and sch getting cure v and vi no ?

Don't judge a book by it's cover? I personally don't care if they give Cure V to RDM and/or SCH. My jobs are WHM, RDM, SCH and BLM so that would only benefit me. Your suggestion to make all of the jobs static is redundant. It would be easier to just remove all the other jobs instead of making 20+ clones of the same thing. What is your point?


I don't know why people keep bringing up 300% TP having 80% crit rate. Who the hell was even weaponskilling at 300% TP? I always weaponskill as soon as I hit 100% TP.
You're doing it wrong for several reasons. If your group is put together correctly then you should have no problem getting to 300 TP. I'm guessing you also didn't consider the effect it has on Aftermath?

[Insaniac]

If that's all it takes to destroy the balance card then you're suggesting that the rank for WS from best to worst should be Mythic > Relic > Empyrean and your argument for Ukon is shot anyway. Also, considering that it used to be harder to acquire a Relic, should those who completed them pre neo-dyna have access to a more potent WS?Your tangent argument is ridiculous and you completely missed the point. I don't care if DRKs get a weapon that can do 5k but saying it's not ok for Ukon to do 5k but DRK is fine just throws balance right out the window. The fact that the weapon that facilitates the 5k damage resolutions is a random luck drop is just icing on the cake.

[Tamoa]

I personally don't care if they give Cure V to RDM and/or SCH. My jobs are WHM, RDM, SCH and BLM so that would only benefit me.

You should stop there.

How would you feel if they took away cure V from whm in order to "balance" it towards rdm and sch?



You're doing it wrong for several reasons. If your group is put together correctly then you should have no problem getting to 300 TP. I'm guessing you also didn't consider the effect it has on Aftermath?

Who the hell cares about the aftermath lasting for 90 seconds instead of 30 seconds. In those 90 seconds you will have reached 100% tp several times and weaponskilled again several times. Especially if we're talking voidwatch.


For someone who doesn't really care about warrior, or about this nerf, you sure have a hell of a lot to say regarding the matter.

[Siiri]

How is it possible to miss every single point in a 300 post thread? No it's not a parse but every WS that drk did was 3k-5k. Who cares if it crits or not. Who cares if it's a DRK. If you are saying 5k WSs are unacceptable from a WAR and that's why this nerf is justified then they are also unacceptable from a DRK and the fact that SE is allowing it makes the nerf to Ukko's 100% arbitrary. Most likely based off the opinion of people like you who don't understand that job balance has a lot more to it than how much damage they can do.

Those WSs also came from a weapon he just lucked into. Not a weapon he put days/months of deliberate work into.

My point is I don't believe he was doing 5k ws the whole fight, you can't just say something wihtout proving it. Eyeballing sucks, where is the parse? DRK lacks many offensive job abilities and traits of a WAR, they don't just throw out 5k weaponskills all the time on high tier voidwatch NMs.

[Tamoa]

My point is I don't believe he was doing 5k ws the whole fight, you can't just say something wihtout proving it. Eyeballing sucks, where is the parse? DRK lacks many offensive job abilities and traits of a WAR, they don't just throw out 5k weaponskills all the time on high tier voidwatch NMs.

Neither do wars.

[Scribble]

Those WSs also came from a weapon he just lucked into. Not a weapon he put days/months of deliberate work into.

Tangent to what? You're saying that the strength of a weapon should be based on the work and effort you put in to acquire it. Mythics are the hardest weapons to acquire, yet most Empyreans are better. The same is true for Relic.

I'm not the one to argue exact numbers with so you should keep your argument with Siiri separate from mine.

[Tsuneo]

I'll admit I didn't even consider Dusty Wings in Voidwatch, however; I do use them when I do Voidwatch which happens to be not very often.

The truth is, whether it be Ukko's or some other WS, WAR is still going to be number one, so there's no reason to rejoice. I'm repeating something that I've said already, but WAR is going to remain the strongest while other jobs remain where they've been because this update didn't affect them. Too bad for those rejoicing, the nerf won't have enough of an effect for them to suddenly be the top choice for DD.

[Scribble]

The truth is, whether it be Ukko's or some other WS, WAR is still going to be number one, so there's no reason to rejoice.
It isn't that warrior or any other job that isn't my favorite is number one. It's been warrior for a while now so I'm pretty settled in to the fact that it won't change much. The problem is that the community, generally speaking, will always opt for the easy route.

Most people don't have a problem with their favorite job not being the top DD. Most people do have a problem with a game that stresses group play, but doesn't supplement that with reasons to diversify. It's the 'In order to participate in [Insert event here] you must have [Insert optimal job for group composition here] leveled' that bothers people.

[Insaniac]

Tangent to what? You're saying that the strength of a weapon should be based on the work and effort you put in to acquire it. Mythics are the hardest weapons to acquire, yet most Empyreans are better. The same is true for Relic.

I'm not the one to argue exact numbers with so you should keep your argument with Siiri separate from mine.You are a moron or purposely ignoring the point I'm trying to make. I will try to make it as simple as possible this time....

If it's not ok for WAR to do 5k WSs because of balance. Then why is it ok for DRK to do 5k WSs?

Just remove the whole luck based weapon comment from your brain because it's clearly confusing you. It wasn't the main point of my post but you seem to be latching on to it.

[Arcon]

any thf ws

Name one. Because I don't know any that does.

[Xantavia]

You are a moron or purposely ignoring the point I'm trying to make. I will try to make it as simple as possible this time....

If it's not ok for WAR to do 5k WSs because of balance. Then why is it ok for DRK to do 5k WSs?

Just remove the whole luck based weapon comment from your brain because it's clearly confusing you. It wasn't the main point of my post but you seem to be latching on to it.

How did that DRK do a 5K WS? What kind of buffs did he have on himself and what debuffs were on the mob? If he is getting 5k everytime he hits 100tp solo, there might be a problem. But if this was a combination of Dia3 on the mob, beserk, last resort, souleater and whatever else can be stacked, that is a different story.

And what was the damage on the Ukyo's fury that followed so we have a comparison against the same mob?

[Scribble]

You are a moron or purposely ignoring the point I'm trying to make. I will try to make it as simple as possible this time....

If it's not ok for WAR to do 5k WSs because of balance. Then why is it ok for DRK to do 5k WSs?

I don't give a fuck. I am not Siiri and I am not trying to make her argument. Nothing in any of my posts says shit about 5k damage.

The difficulty in obtaining gear has not nor will it ever be key to the performance of the gear. Period. If you are trying to make that argument then you should be arguing that Mythics should outdamage Relics should outdamage Empyreans. It doesn't work that way.

[Insaniac]

How did that DRK do a 5K WS? What kind of buffs did he have on himself and what debuffs were on the mob? If he is getting 5k everytime he hits 100tp solo, there might be a problem. But if this was a combination of Dia3 on the mob, beserk, last resort, souleater and whatever else can be stacked, that is a different story.

And what was the damage on the Ukyo's fury that followed so we have a comparison against the same mob? It's really irrelevant. WARs need pre nerf blood rage and all of that stuff you mentioned for 5K+ damage. DRKs would need Souleater and the same buffs/debuffs. The Ukko's was filtered but this is pre nerf anyway. If you want a full run down of that DRKs WSs you would have to ask him yourself. He claims 3-5k on all of his WSs which is along the lines of a current above average ukon user.


I don't give a fuck. I am not Siiri and I am not trying to make her argument. Nothing in any of my posts says shit about 5k damage.

The difficulty in obtaining gear has not nor will it ever be key to the performance of the gear. Period. If you are trying to make that argument then you should be arguing that Mythics should outdamage Relics should outdamage Empyreans. It doesn't work that way.

It doesn't matter what your justification for the nerf is. You are still missing the point completely which is really amazing. SEs "balance" justification is out the window as soon as other jobs start doing regular 3-5k WSs. That was the main point I was trying to make. You started arguing about something entirely different. I never said that because Ukon is quested it deserves to be stronger. I just said that if it's ok for a luck drop to do 5k then it would stand to reason that it should be ok for an Ultimate weapon to do 5k.

Once again. You need to just let the quested vs. luck weapon part of it go. It's an entirely different discussion and I only brought it up because it only makes it even more absurd.

[FrankReynolds]

The difficulty in obtaining gear has not nor will it ever be key to the performance of the gear.

No one made that argument.


If you are trying to make that argument then you should be arguing that Mythics should outdamage Relics should outdamage Empyreans. It doesn't work that way.

Most people agree that mythic weapons are harder than they should be. Moot point.

[Scribble]

I never said that because Ukon is quested it deserves to be stronger.
It was definitely implied...(take note Frank)

Those WSs also came from a weapon he just lucked into. Not a weapon he put days/months of deliberate work into.

WAR can't achieve the same thing with berserk, blood rage ect. that DRK can with souleater, last resort ect.? The only 'luck' part of the equation is the WS buff from the weapon. It isn't consistent enough to put DRK ahead of WAR.


Most people agree that mythic weapons are harder than they should be. Moot point.
Right, but that isn't actually the point. Do most people agree that because it's much harder or expensive to come by that it should surpass all other weapons? That's what Insaniac implied.

BRB making a Ragnarok

[FrankReynolds]

It was definitely implied...(take note Frank)

It was aside from the actual point that was being made, and your continuous focus on it implies that you know you are wrong and are attempting to make a straw man argument in hopes that the original point will be lost on someone.


WAR can't achieve the same thing with berserk, blood rage ect. that DRK can with souleater, last resort ect.? The only 'luck' part of the equation is the WS buff from the weapon. It isn't consistent enough to put DRK ahead of WAR.

It doesn't have to put it ahead of war. It just has to put it near War. War is broken remember? No job should be that powerful (your argument).


Right, but that isn't actually the point. Do most people agree that because it's much harder or expensive to come by that it should surpass all other weapons? That's what Insaniac implied.

BRB making a Ragnarok

No, you implied that Regardless of how hard a weapon is to achieve, that it should never be as powerful as Ukkon. He simply pointed out that if no weapon should ever be that powerful, then dropping them for free and not nerfing them as well is pretty friggin stupid. The problem here is that you think free weapons that are on par with Ukkon are ok, but Ukkon is OMFGWTF broken.

[Insaniac]

It was not implied and even if it was it doesn't matter. It's not relevant. For the record I do believe that a quested weapon should be more powerful than a "hey look what's in this box" weapon but there's already 1000 threads about buffing relics and mythics and the 3 crappy emp WSs. For the last time.. the only reason I brought it up is to further illustrate the lack of balance which it does in the context. There's no reason for you to try and counter with your silliness. The point is that while the uncommon 5k WS and 3k average WS from an Ukon was being nerfed for "balance" in the next cubicle over they were coding a weapon for DRK that can do the same thing. Please understand what I'm saying and move on.

[Scribble]

It was aside from the actual point that was being made, and your continuous focus on it implies that you know you are wrong and are attempting to make a straw man argument in hopes that the original point will be lost on someone.
Not really. If it was aside the actual point then again, why did he even mention it.


It doesn't have to put it ahead of war. It just has to put it near War. War is broken remember? No job should be that powerful (your argument).
WAR isn't broken, Ukko's is. Specifically, the critical rate as TP increases. I don't have a problem with warrior being first on the parse, but apparently WARs have a problem with anyone else being close. I don't argue that no one should be as powerful as WAR, I argue that WAR overpowers the content. You were close :P


The problem here is that you think free weapons that are on par with Ukkon are ok, but Ukkon is OMFGWTF broken.
lolfreeweapons

Borealis is not 'on par' with Ukon. I should also point out that a weapon that is tagged 'Occasionally deals severe weapon skill damage' should do just that. IIRC Ragnarok is better than Borealis, but it still isn't keeping up. I'd guess that the OAT or even Mercurial Sword would do pretty well, but they aren't beating Ukon. Still no reason to shed tears.

BRB meriting Resolution

[Siiri]

It was not implied and even if it was it doesn't matter. It's not relevant. For the record I do believe that a quested weapon should be more powerful than a "hey look what's in this box" weapon but there's already 1000 threads about buffing relics and mythics and the 3 crappy emp WSs. For the last time.. the only reason I brought it up is to further illustrate the lack of balance which it does in the context. There's no reason for you to try and counter with your silliness. The point is that while the uncommon 5k WS and 3k average WS from an Ukon was being nerfed for "balance" in the next cubicle over they were coding a weapon for DRK that can do the same thing. Please understand what I'm saying and move on.

The thing is I, and probably others, do not believe your statements about resolution. Why? Because of math. Resolution has a ftp of .75, and an attack penalty. You have no real data behind your assertion except 1 screenshot and a statement by someone who says he does 5k. Asking someone how much their weaponskill does is kind of like asking an old fisherman how big the fish he caught was. No one cares what someone "says" he does. THere are parses all over the places and if after the nerf Resolution, or much more likely Shoha, with a high ftp and an attack bonus of 40%, are doing crazy damage I guess they will be adjusted too. If you say resolution does its damage because of the "occasionally does severe damage" aspect of that weapon, I am sure that "occasionally" is much less than Ukko's post nerf crit rate. Again, Shoha with a TP bonus GK is going to math better than Resolution.

It was already proven people exaggerate. I asked what other ws has a crit rate like Ukko's and Brolic said thf. I just looked up evisceration and its crit according to BG is 10% at 100 and 40% at 300, so please show me where the thf crazy crit ws is.

[Insaniac]

Brolics THF comment was a joke. Sneak attack and all. Harhar

I would love more info on Borealis procs myself. I never came in here saying Borealis DRK outparses all Ukon WARs. They are not even my statements. I never acted like I had hard evidence of anything so I dunno what you are trying to discredit. All I have is a SS of a 5.3k Resolution followed by a 3.3k resolution and someone stating that his damage was in that range the entire fight. I never claimed anything more than that. One thing I will tell you for sure though is that an Ukon crit doesn't just automatically do 5k. If you think 40% of the time Ukko's does 5k+ damage you are out of your mind. The stars have to align for the average Ukon WAR to break 5k on top tier VW mobs. Both sides of any argument tend to exaggerate.

Once again the point was, "If WAR isn't allowed to do it then no one should be able to do it." Clearly that DRK did it and he did it with a weapon SE was creating while they were nerfing Ukko's.

[Scribble]

I never came in here saying Borealis DRK outparses all Ukon WARs. They are not even my statements. I never acted like I had hard evidence of anything so I dunno what you are trying to discredit.
You did act like you had evidence because you posted the ss, but there is other damage in a parse outside just WS damage. Borealis DoT is not keeping up with Ukon and it doesn't have aftermath so I'm not even sure why you'd entertain that notion unless you're huffing something strong.

They should change the description on that weapon to 'Occasionally enhances epeen screenshots' because it isn't consistent and it isn't beating other options for DRK.

BRB still not beating Ukon with my Ragnarok

[Brolic]

You did act like you had evidence because you posted the ss, but there is other damage in a parse outside just WS damage. Borealis DoT is not keeping up with Ukon and it doesn't have aftermath so I'm not even sure why you'd entertain that notion unless you're huffing something strong.

They should change the description on that weapon to 'Occasionally enhances epeen screenshots' because it isn't consistent and it isn't beating other options for DRK.

BRB still not beating Ukon with my Ragnarok
dot? what's that, when are you not popping wings?

[Taint2]

dot? what's that, when are you not popping wings?


When wings are slowing your Damage down...

[Brolic]

When wings are slowing your Damage down...

hahahahahh touche

[FrankReynolds]

Not really. If it was aside the actual point then again, why did he even mention it.

Here,
You say: "X weapon is broken. Its way too powerful. No weapon should ever be that powerful. It should be nerfed."

He says: "Y weapon can also put up numbers like that. There is no point in nerfing weapon X........................"

That was the point.

You responded: "yeah, but just because a weapon is hard to get doesn't mean it should be good."

This is where you completely ignored the point he was attempting to make, and then continued to pretend that you didn't get it because you knew he was right.


WAR isn't broken, Ukko's is. Specifically, the critical rate as TP increases. I don't have a problem with warrior being first on the parse, but apparently WARs have a problem with anyone else being close. I don't argue that no one should be as powerful as WAR, I argue that WAR overpowers the content. You were close :P

So it's ok for other jobs to have that kind of power, just not war. That's what I thought.

[Siiri]

Here,

So it's ok for other jobs to have that kind of power, just not war. That's what I thought.

The actual weaponskill Ukko Fury will not have its potential adjustment, it still has the same strength mod and ftp. It now has a lower chance to crit. It will still see the 5k spike, the frequency is just going to be lower. So SE did not remove Ukko's ability to do 5k damage.

[Scribble]

So it's ok for other jobs to have that kind of power, just not war. That's what I thought.
If you weren't stupid, you might actually understand that the other weapon DOES NOT HAVE THE POWER THAT UKON HAS!

Go away. You keep making yourself look stupid.

I responded to a point in his post about WAR being matched by DRK because of a weapon. It was incorrect, although he carried on like that screenshot was proof. He later started to include the '3-' suffix on the original 5k he stated. Now he probably realizes that the proc is something rarely seen and doesn't put Borealis on par with Ukon.

Why do you keep trying to hold his dick for him?

[Insaniac]

You did act like you had evidence because you posted the ss, but there is other damage in a parse outside just WS damage.

Actually the only thing I claimed as you can see below is that "Borealis is pumping out 3-5k WSs" which is the only thing I actually do have evidence of in the form of a SS of someone doing a 5.3k resolution followed by a 3.3k resolution. Anything else thatyou manage to imagineer out of that post is just you failing to understand what words mean.


BALANCE!!

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/47fecc31309a8f15a3af5b3095eaebf1.jpg

Borealis is pumping out 3-5k resolutions. 5k WSs with a weapon you get as a lucky drop is ok but not with a weapon you spent days/months obtaining. Epic balancing.


The actual weaponskill Ukko Fury will not have its potential adjustment, it still has the same strength mod and ftp. It now has a lower chance to crit. It will still see the 5k spike, the frequency is just going to be lower. So SE did not remove Ukko's ability to do 5k damage.

They did actually lower it's potential, indirectly, by removing the crit damage bonus from Blood rage. Any 5k+ SS you see of Ukko's on a current top tier VW mob had BR up.

[Insaniac]

If you weren't stupid, you might actually understand that the other weapon DOES NOT HAVE THE POWER THAT UKON HAS!

Go away. You keep making yourself look stupid.

I responded to a point in his post about WAR being matched by DRK because of a weapon. It was incorrect, although he carried on like that screenshot was proof. He later started to include the '3-' suffix on the original 5k he stated. Now he probably realizes that the proc is something rarely seen and doesn't put Borealis on par with Ukon.

Why do you keep trying to hold his dick for him?If there was a NASA for idiots you would be in the control room. You have no comprehension of the words that form a sentence. My first post about borealis had "3-5k" in it. You are trying to attribute claims to my post that I simply did not make so you have something to argue against. I never once ever claimed that a Borealis DRK could do the same over all damage as a WAR. I just said that it can do 5k WSs to high level content which is what so many people keep saying is unacceptable.

That's the last time I'm replying to you since you're joining the other grand master nincompoops on my ignore list. I can't deal with your malfunctioning brain anymore.

[Scribble]

Actually the only thing I claimed as you can see below is that "Borealis is pumping out 3-5k WSs" which is the only thing I actually do have evidence of in the form of a SS of someone doing a 5.3k resolution followed by a 3.3k resolution. Anything else thatyou manage to imagineer out of that post is just you failing to understand what words mean.


I don't care if DRKs get a weapon that can do 5k but saying it's not ok for Ukon to do 5k but DRK is fine just throws balance right out the window.


The fact that the weapon that facilitates the 5k damage resolutions is a random luck drop is just icing on the cake.


If it's not ok for WAR to do 5k WSs because of balance. Then why is it ok for DRK to do 5k WSs?

I do apologize. I'd seen you going on and on about 5k so much I'd actually forgotten you did say 3k in your initial post. Still, you were trying to make a point of Borealis being on par with Ukon and it isn't.

[FrankReynolds]

I do apologize. I'd seen you going on and on about 5k so much I'd actually forgotten you did say 3k in your initial post. Still, you were trying to make a point of Borealis being on par with Ukon and it isn't.

No. He was't. You keep trying to make it about that because you have a major issue with following the discussion.

[Tamoa]

FrankReynolds, Insaniac - you should both probably do the same thing I did, which is to stop responding to or commenting on Scribbles posts in this thread. He ignores direct questions, purposely misinterprets your statements so he can continue to argue and bicker over semantics, and he's just amazingly mad for someone who - in his own words - doesn't care about warrior or this nerf.

[Scribble]

I didn't ignore any questions unless I thought they were rhetorical. Tamoa, you're the queen of semantics because you say "Everyone else is underpowered" and refuse to go along with the fact that Ukon warrior is overpowered. I'm not mad at all. If anyone is mad it's the Ukon warriors, but there isn't any reason to be mad.

To recap:

Warrior gets hit with what is described by warriors as a huge nerf. Testing still puts them in front of other DD after the nerf. Despite this, no one wants to admit that warrior was overpowered and instead we place blame on other jobs for being 'underbalanced'.

Right. Sorted then?

[tyrantsyn]

balance (http://www.ffxiah.com/screenshots/63228)

I'm not saying nerf RNG, I'm am saying this is our reward for the money we pump into this game month after month. It's what we spend all our time questing for the very best in gear. The dev team say it would be too difficult to go the other way. Is it not said "anything worth having isn't easy?"

[Tamoa]

I didn't ignore any questions unless I thought they were rhetorical. Tamoa, you're the queen of semantics because you say "Everyone else is underpowered" and refuse to go along with the fact that Ukon warrior is overpowered. I'm not mad at all. If anyone is mad it's the Ukon warriors, but there isn't any reason to be mad.

To recap:

Warrior gets hit with what is described by warriors as a huge nerf. Testing still puts them in front of other DD after the nerf. Despite this, no one wants to admit that warrior was overpowered and instead we place blame on other jobs for being 'underbalanced'.

Right. Sorted then?

I asked you 2 direct questions:

If your whm was nerfed in the name of balance and lost cure V, how would that make you feel?

and

I asked you what this "content" is that you claim war is overpowered for, you said "endgame", and I asked you what you consider to be endgame in FFXI in 2012.

If you are talking about voidwatch, no war pumps out 5k+ Ukko's Furys constantly on the highest tier nms.

And I'm certainly not placing blame on other jobs for being underbalanced. I'm placing blame on SE for taking the easy way out to balance (how I have grown to loathe that word lately) jobs, balancing down and not up, not caring that they anger a lot of their players (and I'm perfectly aware that it isn't the first time they do that), and not to mention the fact that this ws has been in the game for well over one year before they decide it's "broken". Which it isn't by the way, it was designed to work the way it's currently working.

[Aarahs]

I asked you 2 direct questions:

If your whm was nerfed in the name of balance and lost cure V, how would that make you feel?

I'm curious why you would think this has any relevance to the discussion. War isn't losing Ukon. You're just trying to force a response that isn't related to the issue. How's this: how would you feel if they nerfed cure v by 10% potency so they could give you an armor piece that boost all cure potency by 15%? Oh, and it's also equipable by rdm and sch as well.

[Tamoa]

IHow's this: how would you feel if they nerfed cure v by 10% potency so they could give you an armor piece that boost all cure potency by 15%? Oh, and it's also equipable by rdm and sch as well.

Actually yes, that is a much better question, thank you.

[Scribble]

I'm curious why you would think this has any relevance to the discussion. War isn't losing Ukon. You're just trying to force a response that isn't related to the issue.
There is someone out there who can see what's going on here besides me. Praise Altana...


how would you feel if they nerfed cure v by 10% potency so they could give you an armor piece that boost all cure potency by 15%? Oh, and it's also equipable by rdm and sch as well.
I don't really want to answer the question because it isn't similar to the situation facing warrior, but for the sake of 'that guy never answers direct questions', I will. That said, I'm not quite sure I understand the question anyway.

Nerfing Cure V isn't something that can be made up using gear so I'm not sure why that is part of the equation. There is a cure potency cap already on gear. The cap is 50%...

Arka IV + 24%
Fylgja Torque +3%
Nefer/Heka Kalarsiris(sp) +10~12 or 15% NQ/HQ
Serpentes armor(hands+feet) +5%
Oretania Cape +4%
Augur's gloves +4%
Tatsumaki Sitagoromo(ASA reward) +5%

As you can see, by using the above gear(with extra options for mixing and matching) it is easy for all the jobs you listed to meet that cap so that's a non-issue.

As far as giving RDM and SCH Cure V, it just doesn't make sense.

SCH has access to strong nukes so their ability to both heal, debuff, DoT and nuke doesn't suggest they need stronger healing. If you buffed SCH's healing ability then you'd have to buff WHM's nuking ability. lolbanish

RDM on the other hand needs more utility in the debuff area. They aren't reliable on anything worth a damn and to be honest I don't really think SE thought that one through. They definitely need some love, but Cure V would pigeonhole them into being a WHM substitute instead of giving them an identity of their own.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Ukko's QQ thread...

[FrankReynolds]

A buncha junk

The bottom line is that people quested a weapon, and dumped time and effort and money into getting it because they valued the power that the weapon gave them. SE takes it away on a whim and you say they have no reason to be mad, which is basically saying that their time and effort is not worth anything.

You pretty much assert that its ok to take things from people as long as they will survive the ordeal, and that their feelings don't matter. Which is somewhat expected from a faceless corporation, but that doesn't make you any less of a jerk for cheering it on.

[Scribble]

The bottom line is that people quested a weapon, and dumped time and effort and money into getting it because they valued the power that the weapon gave them. SE takes it away on a whim and you say they have no reason to be mad, which is basically saying that their time and effort is not worth anything.


You keep suggesting that warrior's power has been taken away from them, but you never address the fact that post-nerf, warrior will still be top DD. Why is that any reason to be mad and why do you continue to look past that?


You pretty much assert that its ok to take things from people as long as they will survive the ordeal, and that their feelings don't matter. Which is somewhat expected from a faceless corporation, but that doesn't make you any less of a jerk for cheering it on.
Ordeal? Give me a fucking break. Warrior has always been better than 'surviving' and in fact they've been thriving longer than almost any job I can think of. You keep making it sound as if the job and it's viability will be destroyed by this change. Wake up and smell the imperial coffee.

[FrankReynolds]

You keep suggesting that warrior's power has been taken away from them, but you never address the fact that post-nerf, warrior will still be top DD. Why is that any reason to be mad and why do you continue to look past that?

Because Warriors don't care if you think they are still the best. They want the crap that they worked for to remain intact. I'm willing to bet that if someone mugged you, you would survive. You'd probably even continue to thrive, and be the best at W/E it is that do. Do you think that makes it ok? Do you really, really think that taking things from people is OK as long as they are doing better than you are? at all? It's not.



Ordeal? Give me a fucking break. Warrior has always been better than 'surviving' and in fact they've been thriving longer than almost any job I can think of. You keep making it sound as if the job and it's viability will be destroyed by this change. Wake up and smell the imperial coffee.

Look. If anyone works hard to earn a <insert item here> so that they can perform a job well, and then has it damaged, or weakened after they buy it, they are going to be (quite justifiably) pissed. They don't care if you or someone else, or everyone else thinks that <insert item here> is still great. It is not the same <insert item here> that they worked for. They have been cheated. The fact that doing so doesn't help anyone just adds insult to injury.

[Saiken253]

I would like to quote a very famous quote.... "Variety is the spice of life." War, in this game rather destroys this(and SAM) because they are simply the best DDs. Concurrently, it causes a major flux of people playing those 2 DDs more than others, simply because they outclass them by leaps and bounds. However, I am of like-mindedness to not nerf WAR and MNK and SAM and instead buffing all the other DD. I have 2 of those jobs myself, and I am still irked by the fact that they far outclass many of my other DD classes(many of which are even much better geared).

Seeing this game come out of being FF-SAMWARMNK is something of a dream of mine.

[Scribble]

I'm willing to bet that if someone mugged you, you would survive.

Now we're comparing it to being mugged? 10/10

[FrankReynolds]

Now we're comparing it to being mugged? 10/10

I know right? It's sad that you still can't grasp the concept of loss even when explained in such simple terms.

[Aarahs]

I like how you say you're being cheated out of your hard work as if war is the only job that uses empyrions. I also like how you say SE decided this on a whim when you have no indication on how long it took them to decide it had to happen in order progress the game. You are aware that other jobs got nerfs in the past, too, right? I'm pretty sure SE was aware of how the players would feel about this before they put it into motion.

[FrankReynolds]

I like how you say you're being cheated out of your hard work as if war is the only job that uses empyrions.

I was unaware that my kanaggi was being nerfed too. Man this sucks even worse than I had thought.


I also like how you say SE decided this on a whim when you have no indication on how long it took them to decide it had to happen in order progress the game. You are aware that other jobs got nerfs in the past, too, right? I'm pretty sure SE was aware of how the players would feel about this before they put it into motion.

I don't recall any parades being thrown for any nerfs in the past either. I'm pretty sure they knew wars would be pissed, but they were hoping they would just accept it and now they are trying to find ways to make up for it.


EDIT: oh wait.... JP dev1064 thread (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/18579-dev1064-%E3%82%A6%E3%83%83%E3%82%B3%E3%80%81%E3%83%93%E3%82%AF%E3%82%B9%E3%83%9E%E5%BC%B1%E4%BD%93?p=258284&viewfull=1#post258284)

[newmonkey]

I guess all your crying paid of Frank now can you shut the fuck up already jesus lol.

[Camate]

Regarding the previously discussed two part phase for warrior (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/18568-dev1063-Job-Adjustments-Warrior), we will be eliminating the aspect of enhancing the job trait “Critical Attack Bonus” from phase 2. The reason being that we feel that with the re-adjustment of the Ukko’s Fury’s TP modifier (by raising it slightly) that this value is now at just the right place.

We are working on reflecting the second phase of the adjustments as well as the changes to Ukko’s Fury during the test server update scheduled for the latter half of next week. Please test out these changes on the test server and let us know your feedback.

*Additional information on the weapon skill adjustments can be found here (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/18707-Nerfing-Ukko-Vsmite-so-lazy-players-can-be-more-useful?p=258456#post258456).

[Scribble]

The reason being that we feel that with the re-adjustment of the Ukko’s Fury’s TP modifier (by raising it slightly) that this value is now at just the right place.
That will remain to be seen when the changes hit the test server, but just eyeballing they look reasonable.

From the other post:

In exchange for slightly raising the critical hit rate with the re-adjustment, of the two adjustments that were planned to take place along with this to enhance the effects of Double Attack and Critical Hit Bonus, we will now only be adjusting Double Attack.
Yo dawg, we heard you like double attack...

[Transmit]

I'm not even a Warrior, but isnt this nerfing the entire job, in exchange for buffing (the nerf) on a select number of users on the job? That just screams really lazy... I know a "good" WAR should have access to Ukko's, but.... really.... lazy...

Not that I feel WAR really needs a further buff right now, but saying "You're gonna get this!" and then snatching it away isnt on.

[Habiki]

Regarding the previously discussed two part phase for warrior (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/18568-dev1063-Job-Adjustments-Warrior), we will be eliminating the aspect of enhancing the job trait “Critical Attack Bonus” from phase 2. The reason being that we feel that with the re-adjustment of the Ukko’s Fury’s TP modifier (by raising it slightly) that this value is now at just the right place.

We are working on reflecting the second phase of the adjustments as well as the changes to Ukko’s Fury during the test server update scheduled for the latter half of next week. Please test out these changes on the test server and let us know your feedback.

*Additional information on the weapon skill adjustments can be found here (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/18707-Nerfing-Ukko-Vsmite-so-lazy-players-can-be-more-useful?p=258456#post258456).

Thats all fine and good that the team feels ukkos is at the right strength now but what about all the other warriors without ukkos fury, they now need to suffer to apease the players whining about their extremly broken ws being balanced.

Removing the crit attack bonus is a bad idea, it hurts all warriors not just people with ukkos fury.

The first values for ukkos fury on the test server were fine now its almost back to being overpowered again and far from balanced.

Also in comparsion almost all emperian weapons are in need of nerfs not just ukkos fury and victory smite, either nerf them some or re-adjust relic mythic and merited weaponskills to a value where the can compete.

[Dart]

so many delicious tears, all for nothing


I am sad :/

[Scribble]

Removing the crit attack bonus is a bad idea, it hurts all warriors not just people with ukkos fury.

Also in comparsion almost all emperian weapons are in need of nerfs not just ukkos fury and victory smite, either nerf them some or re-adjust relic mythic and merited weaponskills to a value where the can compete.
These two statements contradict.

Removing the crit damage buff from Blood Rage impacts the empyrean WS which are crit-based (ie. the very same WS you are calling for nerfs to).

The high crit rate on Ukko's isn't so much the problem as the bonus damage from gear/abilities/ect. The increased crit rate will keep the WS more consistent but the nerf to crit damage will remove the big spikes you saw when stacked with Blood Rage.

[Habiki]

These two statements contradict.

Removing the crit damage buff from Blood Rage impacts the empyrean WS which are crit-based (ie. the very same WS you are calling for nerfs to).

The high crit rate on Ukko's isn't so much the problem as the bonus damage from gear/abilities/ect. The increased crit rate will keep the WS more consistent but the nerf to crit damage will remove the big spikes you saw when stacked with Blood Rage.

There are other weapon skills that crit besides ukkos fury that warrior has access to for instance raging rush, kings justice, vorpal blade, eviseration etc., and anyways how to do the statements you quoted contradict.

One statemnt says not adding the crit atk boost they were going to add is stupid because it effects warrior as a whole not just one overpowered weaponskill.

The next statement compares emperian weaponskills to relics, mythics, and merited weaponskills, and states that all emperian weaponskills are in need of a nerf compared to their relic,mythic, and merited counterparts since they trounce all over them. Either nerf them to be in the same ballpark as relics,mythics and merited weaponskills, or boost relic weaponskills, mythic weaponskills and merited weaponskills.

Not all emperian weaponskills are overpowered in comparision to mythics relics and merited weaponskills, and in some cases the case could be made some merited relic and or mythic weaponskills could use a nerf.

Samurai for instance the hierarchy from strongest to weakest weaponskills is Tachi: Shoha, Tachi: Fudo, Tachi: Kaiten, Tachi: Rana. Which shouldnt really be the case, considering the effort needed to obtain the various weaponskills, the hierarchy should be more like Tachi: Kaiten, Tachi Rana, Tachi Fudo, Tachi Shoha. In my opinion Tachi: Shoha and Tachi: Fudo need nerfed as well, Tachi: Kaiten is probably about right on dmg or could use a slight buff, tachi rana needs a buff bad.

Sorry for jumping off topic some.

[Washburn]

They better come out with some damn good gear in the next patch...

[Scribble]

One statemnt says not adding the crit atk boost they were going to add is stupid because it effects warrior as a whole not just one overpowered weaponskill.

The next statement compares emperian weaponskills to relics, mythics, and merited weaponskills, and states that all emperian weaponskills are in need of a nerf compared to their relic,mythic, and merited counterparts since they trounce all over them. Either nerf them to be in the same ballpark as relics,mythics and merited weaponskills, or boost relic weaponskills, mythic weaponskills and merited weaponskills.

Right, you say that the crit damage nerf on Blood Rage is stupid but that same crit damage nerf is a nerf to the other crit based Empyrean WS. Nerfing Blood Rage also nerfs the damage of Blade: Hi, Victory Smite ect.

I somewhat agree with the strength of each weapon needing to be leveled out some, but you also have to consider the aftermath effects, the OAT and OD2-3 that these weapons have. You don't see the spike damage you might have for some of the merited WS, but procs and aftermath cover the gap.

[Unctgtg]

Why do you guys hate the messengers, they are just telling you what the developers are telling them to say.

[Washburn]

who else is anyone going to vent to? theyre the only ones that speak a da engrish that as any connection, so it's exactly who they should be venting on.

If you order a pizza and it gets to your door with a bunch of crap on it you hate that turned the pizza from heaven to a miscarriage, tell me what you'd say to the pizza man...

[Scribble]

If you order a pizza and it gets to your door with a bunch of crap on it you hate that turned the pizza from heaven to a miscarriage, tell me what you'd say to the pizza man...

Well if it happened to a warrior then it wouldn't matter what they said because you couldn't make anything out over the loud sobbing.

[Greezy]

Since this is coming, we can only hope that war will still hold up decently as it does now. I hope SE is reminded of the work a player completed to obtain their weapons and shows interest in giving its player base more of what we want.

[Tagrineth]

"Waah don't nerf Ukko's so much!!!1111"

'ok fine but now you won't get critical bonus JTs'

Thanks a lot, whine brigade. Congratulations, you got the job nerfed instead of one weapon skill.

[Babekeke]

I'm surprised that noone has caught on to this yet, but there is a really obvious reason as to why they're nerfing Blood Rage.

Firstly let's look at what it does: Increases crit hit rate(which they're keeping)/damage for all members in the party.

Now the reason they're nerfing it: SAM doesn't have a crit weapon skill.

[Coldbrand]

They better come out with some damn good gear in the next patch...

Askar +5 if they can divert Tanaka's attention from it.

[tyrantsyn]

Thats all fine and good that the team feels ukkos is at the right strength now but what about all the other warriors without ukkos fury, they now need to suffer to apease the players whining about their extremly broken ws being balanced.

Removing the crit attack bonus is a bad idea, it hurts all warriors not just people with ukkos fury.

The first values for ukkos fury on the test server were fine now its almost back to being overpowered again and far from balanced.

Also in comparsion almost all emperian weapons are in need of nerfs not just ukkos fury and victory smite, either nerf them some or re-adjust relic mythic and merited weaponskills to a value where the can compete.

1: Agreed, taking the bonus away instead of just downing the % or something is cheap.

2: Disagreed, nerf all emp's?!?


so many delicious tears, all for nothing


I am sad :/

"shaking my head" hope your throat doesn't dry out.

[Kriegsgott]

They better come out with some damn good gear in the next patch...

and if the dosn come out with some damn good gear in the next patch you ar going to quit?
just wonder!

[Neisan_Quetz]

"Waah don't nerf Ukko's so much!!!1111"

'ok fine but now you won't get critical bonus JTs'

Thanks a lot, whine brigade. Congratulations, you got the job nerfed instead of one weapon skill.

So basically, they reduce the nerf on Ukko's, and War doesn't get Crit Attack bonus III SE wasn't going to give anyway unless Ukko's crit rate was halved. So you went from a 10% Reduction to Ukko war's, to 6% reduction to UF and ~1% Reduction to everyone from not getting Crit Attack III. Please know what you're talking about.

[Dart]

1: Agreed, taking the bonus away instead of just downing the % or something is cheap.

2: Disagreed, nerf all emp's?!?



"shaking my head" hope your throat doesn't dry out.

sorry, but you're really bad at this

[tyrantsyn]

sorry, but you're really bad at this

Hold on going to try and care about what you had too say...




Nope not going to happen.

[Washburn]

and if the dosn come out with some damn good gear in the next patch you ar going to quit?
just wonder!

It all depends. I won't say that i'm not willing to give the adjustments a fair chance, but if as of 2012, the only thing i know about the upcoming update, is all negative effects.

I was RNG main from fall 2004 until like 6 months ago, I flung arrows through the nerfs and stuck with what i loved, and yeah, i saw the job i loved, get turned into something that's only usable for proc's ... I've been through it once, I'd hate to see it happen to any other job..

[Insaniac]

Two days ago: "Haha you guys are getting nerfed by 10% on a WS you put a lot of work into lolol. Stop complaining it's only 10%"

Today: "You are going to nerf us >1% by taking away a job trait we never actually had in the firstplace!?!?!?!?!?!!?!? FUUUCCCCKKK YOUUUUUUUUU!!!!"

You guys can blame the complainers all you want but it's entirely possible that if some of you spent less time posting "delicious tear" comments and rallied against any and all nerfs as a community you wouldn't have lost CAIII. Probably not but you never know~ All nerfs suck and just open the door to more nerfs and that should have been the message we sent.

[Scribble]

All nerfs suck and just open the door to more nerfs and that should have been the message we sent.
Actually, being overpowered is what leads to nerfs not other nerfs.

[Dart]

Hold on going to try and care about what you had too say...




Nope not going to happen.

obviously you do since I continue to get a response. Don't be a hypocrite.

[FrankReynolds]

Actually, being overpowered is what leads to nerfs not other nerfs.

LOL Warrior really gives you a rash in your pants doesn't it?

[Scribble]

LOL Warrior really gives you a rash in your pants doesn't it?

This applies not only to other jobs, but other games. Don't be stupid.

[FrankReynolds]

This applies not only to other jobs, but other games. Don't be stupid.

Yes, there are trolls on other jobs and in other games who like to pop in and go "ha ha, you got nerfed and you deserved it".

Somehow I suspect your on a lot of forums saying the same misinformed stuff.

[Dart]

did wildfire just become the new king of the hill?

to be fair it has been in a few situations for a while now.

[Scribble]

Somehow I suspect your on a lot of forums saying the same misinformed stuff.
Psst, your post count is 10 times higher than mine. Someone likes the sound of their own voice? Just because I don't share your opinion doesn't mean I'm trolling or misinformed.

If DRK had a scythe with Ukon stats and WS with Ukko's mods, that shit would get nerfed. If SAM had a GKT with Ukon stats and a WS with Ukko's mods, that shit would get nerfed. I don't have anything against warriors, just bitches who act like they should be toting purses and not great axes.

Man up and wipe off those tears instead of trying to make the community feel sorry for you. I only point out the fact that it's warrior because everyone says shit like 'We're supposed to be the toughest, hardest hitting badasses in the game' yet you're all here whining like babies. The irony is tastier than the tears.

[FrankReynolds]

Psst, your post count is 10 times higher than mine. Someone likes the sound of their own voice? Just because I don't share your opinion doesn't mean I'm trolling or misinformed.

If DRK had a scythe with Ukon stats and WS with Ukko's mods, that shit would get nerfed. If SAM had a GKT with Ukon stats and a WS with Ukko's mods, that shit would get nerfed. I don't have anything against warriors, just bitches who act like they should be toting purses and not great axes.

Man up and wipe off those tears instead of trying to make the community feel sorry for you. I only point out the fact that it's warrior because everyone says shit like 'We're supposed to be the toughest, hardest hitting badasses in the game' yet you're all here whining like babies. The irony is tastier than the tears.

Really? Now your gonna call every person who stood up and called it BS instead of taking it like a man who's taking it like a woman a purse toting baby now huh? When all else fails, pull out the crying card for anyone who uses their voice. I say your a short sighted little wuss who can't come up with a reason why their favorite job should be improved so they go to the war forums to talk smack instead. I say your crying.

Your on here whining "boooo!! warriors are too cool!!! Waahhhhh!!! whay does my jobs suck soooo much ? it must be warriors fault!!!" " It's no fair, even when they get nerfed their still better than me! Wahhhhhh!"

Face it. You have no reason to be here other than to try and make people angry, and it drives you up a wall that you can't get anyone to shout obscenities at you.

[Scribble]

Really? Now your gonna call every person who stood up and called it BS instead of taking it like a man who's taking it like a woman a purse toting baby now huh?

Not like a woman, like a man wielding a purse instead of a great axe. Man, you have some serious reading comprehension problems.

Most warriors were disappointed with the coming adjustment and then realized that they were destroying everyone in the parses. They maybe thought back to how they have enjoyed being probably the most popular and useful job in XI. Maybe they remembered the RNG nerf and decided it wasn't so bad because you know, it really isn't?

Nah, nobody here is that sensible. People are too selfish to see past 'They're taking my toys away'.

[Neisan_Quetz]

You're clearly misinformed with the way both of you are continuing to argue about nothing. The only thing you can really complain about at this point is the BR changes.
Pre nerf, War was the best DD. Post nerf, war was still top DD. Post adjustment nerf, War is... still top DD. Nothing's changed for other jobs, all War lost was a little off the top.

[Scribble]

Pre nerf, War was the best DD. Post nerf, war was still top DD. Post adjustment nerf, War is... still top DD. Nothing's changed for other jobs, all War lost was a little off the top.
Yeah, I said all of that pages ago. Frank here wants to argue for some reason even though nothing has happened to warrior's standing among DD. He mad.

[FrankReynolds]

You're clearly misinformed with the way both of you are continuing to argue about nothing. The only thing you can really complain about at this point is the BR changes.
Pre nerf, War was the best DD. Post nerf, war was still top DD. Post adjustment nerf, War is... still top DD. Nothing's changed for other jobs, all War lost was a little off the top.

Scribble just had a hard on for warriors, and keeps trying to make this into a warrior QQ thread because some warrior stole her milk money once or something. I'm not even sure what the deal is. She's a whm. I think she just came in here because she was looking for an excuse to say "He mad".

[Scribble]

Scribble just had a hard on for warriors, and keeps trying to make this into a warrior QQ thread because some warrior stole her milk money once or something. I'm not even sure what the deal is. She's a whm. I think she just came in here because she was looking for an excuse to say "He mad".

Francesca is still too stupid to get past the fact that it isn't about warrior other than the broken weapon in question is exclusive to that job. Not sure why she can't grasp that, but since she's intent on having the last word, no matter how dumb it makes her look, it's all hers.

Don't squander it on anything relevant to the topic or anything.

[Dart]

why don't you two just fuck and get it over? The only thing interesting in this thread anymore is which one of you two is the pitcher and which is the catcher.

[FrankReynolds]

Don't squander it on anything relevant to the topic or anything.

lol you made an off topic post so you could get the last word, in order to make fun of someone for making off topic posts to get the last word. Perfect.

The nerf is still a bad move. It doesn't just affect warriors weapon skill, it affects the entire game and you still don't understand why. That's fine. You keep saying people are emo and trying to get attention. I'll be here to give it to you. :)

[Camate]

I wanted to let you know that there have been some updates in regards to the information we posted last week.

We mentioned that only the critical hit bonus effect increase would be excluded from the adjustments; however, we are now planning to put off the increase to the rate of double attack effect as well.

We feel it would be preferable to receive feedback specifically on the adjustments made to Ukko’s Fury without adjusting job abilities due to the fact that you can get very close to a 50% double attack rate via job traits and equipment.

Due to this, the enhancement of both the critical hit bonus and double attack effect will be left out from the version update. However, we will make a final decision based on the feedback we receive from the test server update set to take place in the latter half of the week.

We apologize for the constant state of flux when it comes to all of the changes, but please understand that we’re going through testing and adjustments daily.

※For the additional information on the weapon skill adjustments please look here (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/18707-Nerfing-Ukko-Vsmite-so-lazy-players-can-be-more-useful?p=258456&viewfull=1#post258456).

[Coldbrand]

Wow dude they're gonna' rip your head off.

[Brolic]

I wanted to let you know that there have been some updates in regards to the information we posted last week.

We mentioned that only the critical hit bonus effect increase would be excluded from the adjustments; however, we are now planning to put off the increase to the rate of double attack effect as well.

We feel it would be preferable to receive feedback specifically on the adjustments made to Ukko’s Fury without adjusting job abilities due to the fact that you can get very close to a 50% double attack rate via job traits and equipment.

Due to this, the enhancement of both the critical hit bonus and double attack effect will be left out from the version update. However, we will make a final decision based on the feedback we receive from the test server update set to take place in the latter half of the week.

We apologize for the constant state of flux when it comes to all of the changes, but please understand that we’re going through testing and adjustments daily.

※For the additional information on the weapon skill adjustments please look here (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/18707-Nerfing-Ukko-Vsmite-so-lazy-players-can-be-more-useful?p=258456&viewfull=1#post258456).

seems fair

[Alhanelem]

It's a tough life being a FFXI community team person, it seems.

Really, I'll take back everything I said about Ukko's being over-nerfed. WARs who do not have this weapon shouldn't be punished in exchange for the nerf being reduced.

[Catmato]

Dear SE,
Nerf Ukko's Fury, not WAR.
Sincerely, Cat.

[Asymptotic]

I wanted to let you know that there have been some updates in regards to the information we posted last week.

We have decided to keep the critical hit rate on the weapon skill "Ukko's Fury" as it was for its original implementation, and alter the jobs able to equip the Ukonvasara and related line of weapons so that only Samurai will be able to equip them. To accompany this change, Samurai will recieve an "A+" Great Axe skill with which to utilize the weapon and the job trait "Critical Attack Bonus IV."

We will be implementing these changes with the next test server update and look forward to your feedback! Happy Adventures!

Sounds about right.

[Brolic]

Dear SE,
Nerf Ukko's Fury, not WAR.
Sincerely, Cat.

what's there difference? what's non empy dd's being invited to anyway? other than to th

[Catmato]

what's there difference? what's non empy dd's being invited to anyway? other than to th
EXP
Abyssea
BCNMs
Missions
Limbus
Einherjar
Dynamis
Salvage

[Damane]

seems fair

tell that to WARs that stick to their Relic since 4 years... Seriously Ukonvarsa can DIAF

[Brolic]

EXP
Abyssea
BCNMs
Missions
Limbus
Einherjar
Dynamis
Salvage

ah so a bunch of level 75(or is that 65?) content and worms

[Catmato]

ah so a bunch of level 75(or is that 65?) content and worms
Yes.

This isn't BG. You don't have to pretend everyone does VW as their only event and that you automatically get an empy when you hit 85.

Also, worms?

[Soidisant]

tell that to WARs that stick to their Relic since 4 years... Seriously Ukonvarsa can DIAF

This.

I would rather they give WAR the traits and have Ukko's at the original nerfed values instead of them punishing all WAR's for Ukko's being overpowered in their eyes. All they do by removing/not adding the traits and having a less nerfed Ukko's is shift the balance more towards Ukon than Bravura when Ukon is already better than Bravura.

And I say this as someone who has access to both a Bravura and an Ukon.

[Coldbrand]

Or you know, they could not go against their word and be liars by nerfing at all since they said they weren't doing that and moving forward would focus on exclusively buffs and moving the overall power level above 75.

[Cream_Soda]

I'd like to take this moment to extend my lulz to any war who supported the Ukon nerf but doesn't support this one.

[Habiki]

Please adjust Ukko's Fury back to @100tp 15% @200tp 25% and @300tp 40%. There's no reason to nerf a job over one weaponskill, it seems really lazy to me and won't help balance at all.

The only warriors that will be worth a damn will be the overpowered Ukonvasara warrior's who your trying to appease so you don't lose 2500+ customers who are upset about this weaponskill being nerfed vs. the 9000+ customers who have warrior at 90+ who will all lose out on the enhancements to double attack and crit hit dmg because ukkos fury had to be re-adjusted to appease the 2500+ Ukonvasara user's.

If everyone read and posted in these forums you'd see real quick the vast majority is in favor of nerfing ukko's fury not warrior.

If this is how the team decides to handle things since the community can talk and influence them now then we're in for alot more nerfs cause theres alot of people upset over their job not being #1 DD, not to mention how monotonous the game will become with only one worthwhile weaponskill per job.

[Brolic]

Please adjust Ukko's Fury back to @100tp 15% @200tp 25% and @300tp 40%. There's no reason to nerf a job over one weaponskill, it seems really lazy to me and won't help balance at all.

The only warriors that will be worth a damn will be the overpowered Ukonvasara warrior's who your trying to appease so you don't lose 2500+ customers who are upset about this weaponskill being nerfed vs. the 9000+ customers who have warrior at 90+ who will all lose out on the enhancements to double attack and crit hit dmg because ukkos fury had to be re-adjusted to appease the 2500+ Ukonvasara user's.

If everyone read and posted in these forums you'd see real quick the vast majority is in favor of nerfing ukko's fury not warrior.

If this is how the team decides to handle things since the community can talk and influence them now then we're in for alot more nerfs cause theres alot of people upset over their job not being #1 DD, not to mention how monotonous the game will become with only one worthwhile weaponskill per job.

your wrong

[FrankReynolds]

Please adjust Ukko's Fury back to @100tp 15% @200tp 25% and @300tp 40%. There's no reason to nerf a job over one weaponskill, it seems really lazy to me and won't help balance at all.

The only warriors that will be worth a damn will be the overpowered Ukonvasara warrior's who your trying to appease so you don't lose 2500+ customers who are upset about this weaponskill being nerfed vs. the 9000+ customers who have warrior at 90+ who will all lose out on the enhancements to double attack and crit hit dmg because ukkos fury had to be re-adjusted to appease the 2500+ Ukonvasara user's.

If everyone read and posted in these forums you'd see real quick the vast majority is in favor of nerfing ukko's fury not warrior.

If this is how the team decides to handle things since the community can talk and influence them now then we're in for alot more nerfs cause theres alot of people upset over their job not being #1 DD, not to mention how monotonous the game will become with only one worthwhile weaponskill per job.

I'd like option C. Please go fix all the other crap wrong with this game, and make some new content while your at it, then, maybe you could consider job adjustments that aren't in the form of buffs.

[Tagrineth]

Or you know, they could not go against their word and be liars by nerfing at all since they said they weren't doing that and moving forward would focus on exclusively buffs and moving the overall power level above 75.

I don't recall them ever saying there would never be another nerf. Derp.

[Scribble]

So let me see if I have everything straight here....

Up through WotG, warriors are one of, if not the most popular and viable jobs to play in XI.

Abyssea is released with the level cap increase and warrior still retains it's viability. If anything it is increased due to their proficiency with the proc system. Not only that but with the release of Empyrean weapons, warrior becomes the clear choice for top DD by a longshot.

SE finally gets around to adjusting the Empyrean WS to bring Ukon warriors down to a normal level.

Instead of being reasonable about the change, warriors cry rivers about their slight epeen shrinkage even though they still maintain a healthy lead.

Because of this, SE re-buffs Ukko's but nerfs all warriors JA to prove my point for me?


I spent all this time trying to point out that the WS was the problem and NOT the job, caught backlash for being anti-warrior and then SE comes through and trumps me in the trolling department by nerfing all warriors. Well played SE, well played... I concede.

[Atomic_Skull]

Two days ago: "Haha you guys are getting nerfed by 10% on a WS you put a lot of work into lolol. Stop complaining it's only 10%"

Today: "You are going to nerf us >1% by taking away a job trait we never actually had in the firstplace!?!?!?!?!?!!?!? FUUUCCCCKKK YOUUUUUUUUU!!!!"

You guys can blame the complainers all you want but it's entirely possible that if some of you spent less time posting "delicious tear" comments and rallied against any and all nerfs as a community you wouldn't have lost CAIII. Probably not but you never know~ All nerfs suck and just open the door to more nerfs and that should have been the message we sent.

Nothing has changed. WAR tears are still delicious.

Also, this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_58PNSZvnQ0)

[Coldbrand]

I don't recall them ever saying there would never be another nerf. Derp.

HURHUR DERP LOL ^____________^

They said moving forward they'd focus on increasing player's power level and not decreasing it.

SO KAWAII UGUU~ DESU xD nyan lol

[Scribble]

They said moving forward they'd focus on increasing player's power level and not decreasing it.

They overshot their target by quite a bit with Ukko's. That sort of thing happens when you increase the cap 5 separate times over the course of a year and a half.

[Coldbrand]

They overshot their target by quite a bit with Ukko's. That sort of thing happens when you increase the cap 5 separate times over the course of a year and a half.

Nah. If anything I feel level 99 isn't crazy enough, especially considering everyone is operating under the logic of in abyssea/with atmacite rather than actual power level.

[Coldbrand]

Alright Warrior's: I'll save you from the nerfs. CMs can you show Tanaka the following please? http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/Coldbrand/UnkaisFury.png

[Riaurio]

Hmm trade useless Job Traits for better Ukko's {Yes Please}

wtf come on what war is really going to benefit from another DA tier?


EXP
Abyssea
BCNMs
Missions
Limbus
Einherjar
Dynamis
Salvage


Thats a joke right ?
EXP/Abyssea - you don't need more DA/crit dmg, atmas use them :)

The rest is just so stupidly easy to do i wont even bother adressing why you dont need anymore DA/Crit dmg

[Neisan_Quetz]

2% Double Attack Serious business.

[Dart]

2% Double Attack Serious business.

careful you might hurt their feelings

[kingfury]

I wanted to let you know that there have been some updates in regards to the information we posted last week.

We mentioned that only the critical hit bonus effect increase would be excluded from the adjustments; however, we are now planning to put off the increase to the rate of double attack effect as well.

We feel it would be preferable to receive feedback specifically on the adjustments made to Ukko’s Fury without adjusting job abilities due to the fact that you can get very close to a 50% double attack rate via job traits and equipment.

Due to this, the enhancement of both the critical hit bonus and double attack effect will be left out from the version update. However, we will make a final decision based on the feedback we receive from the test server update set to take place in the latter half of the week.

We apologize for the constant state of flux when it comes to all of the changes, but please understand that we’re going through testing and adjustments daily.

※For the additional information on the weapon skill adjustments please look here (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/18707-Nerfing-Ukko-Vsmite-so-lazy-players-can-be-more-useful?p=258456&viewfull=1#post258456).
---------------
I'll trade you those two enhancements for that whole "Change Damage Type" JA you guys announce a while back...I was slightly exited about that and the possibilities it held. Hopefully the plans for that new ability wasn't scrapped.

Other than that, conclude the test on Ukko's Fury for now and jump on some wonderful ideas of how to create new ways for other jobs to deal nice damage and such por favor.