Anyone actually gotten Gravity II, yet?

[ManaKing]

I looked at the 1 Mil on the AH and laughed a bit. I haven't heard anything good about this spell. I'm still not really sure why we are even getting it, if it won't land on most things. If anyone has it and actually found a use for it, I would love to hear it.

For now I'm putting it on my list of things I might get around to doing eventually. Maybe wait to do the new VW for it.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Nope, and until it drops to ~10k I wont waste my money on it.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Pretty much what Dan said. At most I find I think it's worth double the original which is going for about 3-5k.

If it still doesn't land on NMs I see no point in rushing out to get this spell.

[saevel]

On AH for ..5~6 mil so yeah gonna pass for now.

[Almalieque]

The sad thing is, there will be someone to actually buy it at those ridiculous prices.

[Ezikiel]

i want SE to explain a second spell that does the same thing. PLEASE WHAT IS THE POINT?

[Neisan_Quetz]

1m on AH on Quetz... I don't get it...

[ManaKing]

Apparently Mages are just made of money and paying for spells is our favorite pastime. Especially buying ones with horrible reputations.

[Greatguardian]

A couple million gil is absolutely not a big deal. That said, though, there's also no reason at all to waste money on this.

[Doombringer]

i have it, it doesn't even LOOK cool.

300k on carbuncle. not that i felt this spell was worth 300k, i just think having all my spells is worth 300k. cuz even if it never came up... I would know.

[Neisan_Quetz]

I don't think I'll ever get Gain-CHR though. I can't justify spending anything on that spell. Maybe if it freedrops.

[Doombringer]

have that to, never even casted it. i still break my friends balls over missing spells like shellra2 on his whm. (wich he only lvled for abyssea, and burned anyway) so i can't let myself miss a spell >.> to the point where i consider rdm my main, but i lvl war first after the updates while the scrolls get to the ah.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Yea that's why I can't justify it, I can't fathom any situation I'd want to gain-chr myself.

I can justify Shellra II if you're /whm though.

[tyrantsyn]

Warrior:Hey dude I just got Gravity II, I bet some RDM would pay threw the nose for it.

Thief: Oh man you know they would!!! Seeing there the only job class that can learn it.

Warrior: So what do you think 1 Mil?

Thief: Nah some RDM's are going to be dying for that spell. I'd do 3 to 5 mil.

Warrior: You really think so.

Thief:Oh yea it has to be miles better than the Tier I version.

Red mage: Lol not in this life time.

[Armetage]

Gravity II should be like....an AoE gravity that lasts three times as long as the original given the level cap between the first and second one.

[Ketaru]

Gravity II should be like....an AoE gravity that lasts three times as long as the original given the level cap between the first and second one.

Gravity II can be just like Gravity. Only it would land on things. Then all would be right the world...kind of.

[Kitkat]

Just like various other Tier II, this shouldn't be resisted on higher lvl mobs. Once again, SE has done a grand job of adding another tier II that has hardly any functional use because it isn't much better than Tier I (if at all) and anything worth spit is just going to resist it anyway.

For the time being I've only bothered myself with getting the gain-spells that were added since I can't really think of anything I'd use this on that justified the price.

[Neisan_Quetz]

And in a twist of irony no less than 3 days after I post my last message, I find gain-chr in a gold chest :/

[Greatguardian]

Sell it for phat lootz.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Too late! 3k down the drain! How will I ever get gil again?!

[Doombringer]

And in a twist of irony no less than 3 days after I post my last message, I find gain-chr in a gold chest :/

see? the all-mighty flying spaghetti monster WANTS you to have all your spells.. you should hurry out and buy gravity 2 before it... drops into your hands for free, i guess?

[Ketaru]

At least Gain-CHR makes the prettiest sound of all the Gain spells?

[ManaKing]

At least Gain-CHR makes the prettiest sound of all the Gain spells?

Since that is the most important thing, I'm thinking they should reduce the amount of CHR you get 'for balance'.

[TRiPP]

Since that is the most important thing, I'm thinking they should reduce the amount of CHR you get 'for balance'.

Gain-Chr the day BSTs and BRDs cry. We're totally overpowered now. Although I think it's fair to say, that I'd prefer Gain-Chocolate Milk as opposed to Gain-CHR and Gravity II. That's just me though. Mm... Chocolate milk.

[Babekeke]

Gain-Chr the day BSTs and BRDs cry. We're totally overpowered now. Although I think it's fair to say, that I'd prefer Gain-Chocolate Milk as opposed to Gain-CHR and Gravity II. That's just me though. Mm... Chocolate milk.

Does Gain-CHR work with accession?
And on a side note, why would BSTs cry? They're too busy crying that there are no mobs worth charming anymore to notice that RDM have a spell that they could use to boost charm success, but can't cast it on anyone.

[Kristal]

Does Gain-CHR work with accession?
I doesn't.

And on a side note, why would BSTs cry? They're too busy crying that there are no mobs worth charming anymore to notice that RDM have a spell that they could use to boost charm success, but can't cast it on anyone.
BST's cry, because it hurts their random lots. The higher CHR you got, the better you roll, but someone else must get the poor rolls to keep things balanced. And it's finicky.. if a RDM can boost their CHR more then a BST, the BST gets all the bad luck! Not just some of it.. ALL of it! Devs will start to 'balance' BST magian trial axes, 50k gil jugpets spontaniously explode, RMT start dumping their aby-burned BSTs on the market, etc. Note that this is all 100% TRUTH, because luck defies reason and without reason you cannot disprove! Also, I used 100% TRUTH in caps, which makes it undeniable!

[tyrantsyn]

:confused: Still 400k on quetz and ppl buying it up as soon as they hit the AH. I really don't understand.

Maybe i'm just a minority on the server thinking this spell isn't worth it.

[Kristal]

:confused: Still 400k on quetz and ppl buying it up as soon as they hit the AH. I really don't understand.

Maybe i'm just a minority on the server thinking this spell isn't worth it.

It's probably because it's actually not that bad on stuff it does land on. Evasion -40 and 11 sec recast. Just can't cast it on anything that evades for a living, which is pretty much any NM but Cirein-croin.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Evasion minus isn't a concern on fodder, which is the only thing it does land on.

[Kristal]

Evasion minus isn't a concern on fodder, which is the only thing it does land on.

Yeah, but fodder is getting tougher, and newer content could offer more evasive trash mobs. Some people might be banking on that, expecting a higher demand for the scroll in the further.

I'll just wait for it to drop to a more reasonable level though.. 250k-300k on Bismarck atm.

[saevel]

I'd be far more worried about defense on newer monsters. VT~IT's down in the bottom of Boyada tree are as expected but some of the DC's in dynamis have ~600 defense which made me go O.o. Leach's in Tav, Krakens in Qufim, and Fungar's in Vunk all are low evasion for me as 99RDM/DNC with ~650 attack. I put Dia III on and their all low evasion low defense.

[tyrantsyn]

The most I would be willing to throw at the spell is about 200k. Tho I'm not sure if i'd be doing anything at that point other than protecting myself from some future up date in which the spell is adjusted for end game utility. And the spell prices go throw the roof because of it.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

The most I would be willing to throw at the spell is about 200k. Tho I'm not sure if i'd be doing anything at that point other than protecting myself from some future up date in which the spell is adjusted for end game utility. And the spell prices go throw the roof because of it.

90k is the most I'd pay. I don't ever see it being fixed now, maybe before, but not now.

[tyrantsyn]

I'd be too happy to get it for that little. But on Quetz the thing is still selling like wild fire. And I doubt the price will drop anytime soon. Think i'll just wait it out. Not like i'm missing anything by not having it.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I'd be too happy to get it for that little. But on Quetz the thing is still selling like wild fire. And I doubt the price will drop anytime soon. Think i'll just wait it out. Not like i'm missing anything by not having it.

Exactly! If they announce they're buffing it just rush to buy it, there is usually a day or two delay before people up it.

[Camate]

Howdy!

Since most of you seem quite curious about the effects of Gravity II and it's usefulness, I figured I would drop in here to let you know its effects and how it can be used.

Gravity II, similar to Gravity, causes reduced movement speed as well as reduced evasion; however, it is stronger than that of Gravity. Interestingly enough the effects of Gravity II will overwrite the effects of Gravity, which means that if your timing is good, you can prolong this effect on enemies you are doing battle with.

Hopefully this gives some incentive to learn the spell, besides for completionist-only purposes.

[Nightfyre]

Howdy!

Since most of you seem quite curious about the effects of Gravity II and it's usefulness, I figured I would drop in here to let you know its effects and how it can be used.

Gravity II, similar to Gravity, causes reduced movement speed as well as reduced evasion; however, it is stronger than that of Gravity. Interestingly enough the effects of Gravity II will overwrite the effects of Gravity, which means that if your timing is good, you can prolong this effect on enemies you are doing battle with.

Hopefully this gives some incentive to learn the spell, besides for completionist-only purposes.

So... stating the obvious/what we already knew? It still doesn't land on anything where the eva down effect would be even slightly useful, and kiting strategies are very rarely used anymore... so yes, that explains what it can do when it lands but completely misses the fact that it's basically useless anyway because it doesn't land when you'd want it to.

[Quetzacoatl]

This tells us absolutely nothing we don't already know by now.

[tyrantsyn]

Howdy!

Since most of you seem quite curious about the effects of Gravity II and it's usefulness, I figured I would drop in here to let you know its effects and how it can be used.

Gravity II, similar to Gravity, causes reduced movement speed as well as reduced evasion; however, it is stronger than that of Gravity. Interestingly enough the effects of Gravity II will overwrite the effects of Gravity, which means that if your timing is good, you can prolong this effect on enemies you are doing battle with.

Hopefully this gives some incentive to learn the spell, besides for completionist-only purposes.

Our problem with it is end game utility, not what to do with it. Everything worth wild is resistant to it. That's what we want fix about it. Come on Camate, throw us a bone here. We really do want this thing to be a great spell in our arsenal. But having 99.9% of all end game content resistant to it just suck's.

Edit: You know I wanted to add this in. In a age of FFXI where in order to get your desired drops there's require proc'ing system. Why is this movement speed thing still a problem? Hell in VW there's even a limit to how far you can venture from the planar rift location before you status is revoked. It kind of sucks where still suffering from a few ppl's accomplishments from years ago. Can't we get rid of this limitation?

[cidbahamut]

Howdy!

Since most of you seem quite curious about the effects of Gravity II and it's usefulness, I figured I would drop in here to let you know its effects and how it can be used.

Gravity II, similar to Gravity, causes reduced movement speed as well as reduced evasion; however, it is stronger than that of Gravity. Interestingly enough the effects of Gravity II will overwrite the effects of Gravity, which means that if your timing is good, you can prolong this effect on enemies you are doing battle with.

Hopefully this gives some incentive to learn the spell, besides for completionist-only purposes.

If I didn't know any better I'd say you were deliberately trying to provoke the Red Mage community with this drivel.
"Hey guys, Gravity II works just like Gravity!"

[Ophannus]

It stinks that BLM gets Comet and Meteor, WHM gets Holy II and Cura III and the ultimate spell in RDM's arsennal is a spell that every NM 95+ resists 100%.

Why can't we get Paralyze III and Slow III? BLM got stronger spells than Ancient Magic II, why can't we get stronger enfeebles than 75 merits?

[Crysten]

Howdy!

Since most of you seem quite curious about the effects of Gravity II and it's usefulness, I figured I would drop in here to let you know its effects and how it can be used.

Gravity II, similar to Gravity, causes reduced movement speed as well as reduced evasion; however, it is stronger than that of Gravity. Interestingly enough the effects of Gravity II will overwrite the effects of Gravity, which means that if your timing is good, you can prolong this effect on enemies you are doing battle with.

Hopefully this gives some incentive to learn the spell, besides for completionist-only purposes.

You heard it here first, guys. Gravity II is better than Gravit --wait, Gravity doesn't land on anything that matters now?

Well, shit.

[Kalilla]

Howdy!

Since most of you seem quite curious about the effects of Gravity II and it's usefulness, I figured I would drop in here to let you know its effects and how it can be used.

Gravity II, similar to Gravity, causes reduced movement speed as well as reduced evasion; however, it is stronger than that of Gravity. Interestingly enough the effects of Gravity II will overwrite the effects of Gravity, which means that if your timing is good, you can prolong this effect on enemies you are doing battle with.

Hopefully this gives some incentive to learn the spell, besides for completionist-only purposes.

http://media.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/22122/you%20dont%20say.jpg

[Camate]

If I didn't know any better I'd say you were deliberately trying to provoke the Red Mage community with this drivel.
"Hey guys, Gravity II works just like Gravity!"

...yes, that was exactly my plan. (??)

Actually I was just trying to offer what information I could provide, sorry if this was knowledge that the whole player-base knew.

In any event, I will continue to deliver your feedback to the development team on the ways to enhance the useability of this spell.

[Kalilla]

...yes, that was exactly my plan. (??)

Actually I was just trying to offer what information I could provide, sorry if this was knowledge that the whole player-base knew.

In any event, I will continue to deliver your feedback to the development team on the ways to enhance the useability of this spell.
We know your intentions are good Camate and it isn't anything against you.

You must understand our frustration on the matter as well. Why even waste the resources of time, money, manpower, and our limited space on spells, if we won't even benefit from it.

[cidbahamut]

...yes, that was exactly my plan. (??)

Actually I was just trying to offer what information I could provide, sorry if this was knowledge that the whole player-base knew.

In any event, I will continue to deliver your feedback to the development team on the ways to enhance the useability of this spell.

Start by getting rid of the blanket immunity to Gravity that every NM gets these days. If you can't give us that then Gravity will never be useful. Ever.

[Kalilla]

Start by getting rid of the blanket immunity to Gravity that every NM gets these days. If you can't give us that then Gravity will never be useful. Ever.
This is really the only thing that needs to be sent to SE.

(example) If we get the spell Death, but everything is immune to it except level 50 stuff and below, then why even give us it?

I think everyone would appreciate it if our money wasn't spent making things we won't ever use realistically.

[Seriha]

Or split the effects of the spell, basically a double debuff where one inflicts the movement speed down while the other inflicts the -evasion. Ideally you shouldn't have to touch enemy TP moves, and while the few things out there that do cast gravity may require 2 erases to get the -movement gone, I think people would be willing to tolerate it to have a more useful spell in situations where accuracy could be a concern.

[Kalilla]

nvm read that completely wrong...

[Kitkat]

...yes, that was exactly my plan. (??)

Actually I was just trying to offer what information I could provide, sorry if this was knowledge that the whole player-base knew.

In any event, I will continue to deliver your feedback to the development team on the ways to enhance the useability of this spell.

Camate, sorry you end up taking the brunt of most the players frustration. Unfortunately you are usually the one providing the information that most of us already know, or is a response to something we didn't ask/feedback on in the first place. The fact that Gravity II is more potent than gravity goes without saying. The problem we have is that anything this would be useful on, is totally useless on. The reason, it is resisted 90% of the time or the monster is straight out immune. That is what the main point of this topic was to show: Has anyone even bothered getting a spell that has absolutely no use on anything of worth? The majority answered either no...or just for completeness sake...but not for use. Let's face it, Rdm has been made nearly obsolete because of developers hindering the biggest point of the jobs reason to be added into the group: Debuffing the monster.

In the past it wasn't if whm or blm could do it, it was that rdm could do it and do it better because of retaining higher accuracy with debuffs while being able to back the spells with int/mnd to increase potency. This was something a whm or a blm could not do nearly as well as rdm. Now you only bring a Rdm at the rare need of thier tier II debuffs for triggers >.> To add insult to injury we then get one of you reps coming in and acting like none of use even know what the spell does. No one cares what it does if we can't even utilize it in endgame events because Devs think it is too overpowered. To be able to lower movement speed/evasion of a mob that can reset hate and run off to the mages, destroy them in an AOE, then proceed to beat up the rest due to mages recovering/weakened is overpowered?

Yes, you're going to feel backlash from the community after Devs have ignored this over and over again. Whether or not the community can keep its composure while doing so is a different thing all together.

[tyrantsyn]

Not happy with a Tier II gravity spell the way it is due to resistance by End game content. We want more purpose in our enfeeble's in this department. Not hating on you Camate, you do a good job for us all, but it's not wise to poke the RDM bee's nest. A few of us are rabid in here.

[camaroz]

...yes, that was exactly my plan. (??)

Actually I was just trying to offer what information I could provide, sorry if this was knowledge that the whole player-base knew.

In any event, I will continue to deliver your feedback to the development team on the ways to enhance the useability of this spell.

First off stand up for yourself. Why would you even post this? We are all tired of hearing/seeing the same summary of shenanigans over and over. I just don't understand why you would set yourself up for this. It's an insult to not only the community but yourself.

[Ophannus]

I'm just baffled as to why RDM's arsennel of strongest spells is limited by our level 75 merits. BLM doesnt use AMII anymore because they have Tier-5 and -ja spells. RDM's best debuffs are still Dia III, Paralyze II and Slow II. No other job in FFXI is restrained by their merits as much as RDM. That's like making giving PLD/SCH/RDM Cure 5 and making WHM's only unique cure spell- Cure VI a merit spell. WHM has many, many Cure spells which other mages cannot cast. RDM as the master of enfeebling has so few unique enfeebling spells compared to WHM which is the master of healing magic but has dozens of healing spells RDM cannot use.

RDM ought to get the following spells:
Posion III
Poison IV
Dia IV
Diaga II
Paralyze III
Slow III
Bio IV
Haste II(Because anyone can sub RDM and get Haste)
Regen III
Dispel II(Removes several enhancement statuses based on enfeebling skill, up to 4 or 5)


If your argument is "we don't want to add spells like Dia IV because that would make RDM merit spells like Dia III not as worthwhile" my reply is then why did you give BLM tier5 Elemental Magic which is stronger than AM II and -aja spells? RDM needs a serious enfeebling magic update if you won't bother to grant us Cure 5(meanwhile WHM gets high level enfeebling despite being a 'healing magic specialist'(Addle) but our last curative spell was learned at 48(Cure IV).

Maybe since SCH has been made into a Regen(healing over time) specialist, can you make RDM a DoT specialist and give us stronger tiers of Poison/Bio and make us specialize in preventing damage taken with spells like Stoneskin II/Phalanx III.

How about a debuff that lower a target's magic evasion and magic defense(no we will not bother to melee a target to use death blossom because it's cumbersome and we will die and it doesn't last long and we change weapons frequently so we lose TP)

[Patrik]

I'm guessing a big reason SE wants to make sure almost every NM/HNM is immune to gravity is so they can't all be kite soloed... so how about this: on big mobs like that (VW, HNM, legion, or whatever) make it so grav can still land, but the weigh down effect doesn't do anything, just the eva down.

I'd assume from a dev point of view this idea would be much harder to implement than it sounds, especially with such an old school coded game, but if it IS possible, i think it would be reasonable. but simply saying all high level NMs must be immune to all enfeebs for the sake of "balance" is ridiculous. if that's the standpoint that SE feels they must stand by then you may as well take rdm out of the game or completely redo the job

[tyrantsyn]

You know it's like Break. Another broken spell that's more of a Sleep 1/2 Than a actually petrify spell.

It has a short Duration

Breaks after the first hit

And is no where near as potent as the Mob version.

I only use it as a alt when both sleep's are down. Wouldn't it make more sense if it scaled with enfeebling and broke after a set amount of damage was caused? Or just have a set amount of time before it wore?

Edit: You know maybe it's just me, but maybe Camate just Troll us on here to get current feed back rolling. Sneaky devil.

[Ophannus]

There are countermeasures against kite soloing things like Voidwatch NMs anyway:

-You may kite solo but you're gonna have a hard time killing it in 30 minutes as RDM, these mobs have over 150k+ HP.
-Staggering is going to be troublesome, so the chances of you acquiring gear will be hard.
-Back about 7 years ago SE implemented a system by which anything that cons "Impossible to Gauge" builds gradual resistance to Gravity anyway so even if they remove immunity and just have the gradual resistence, we can still land it if not just for the -Evasion down which could be immensely useful for evasive NMs like Lancing Lamorok.

Make Gravity II's Evasion down split from the weight.

"Red Mage casts Gravity II. The target's evasion is impaired!" (The 'Weight' is resisted)
"Red Mage casts Gravity II. The target is weighted and evasion is impaired!" (The 'Weight is unresisted)


Similar to how Violent Flourish deals damage but doesn't always stun. i.e

Dancer uses Violent Flourish. The target takes X damage.(The stun is resisted)
Dancer uses Violent Flourish. The target takes X damage and is stunned.(The stun is unresisted)

[Ophannus]

Having mobs be immune to most of what our job specializes in is like making NMs be completely immune to only hand-to-hand damage or being completely immune to all forms of magic damage or like a mob have a zombie-aura so that anyone in '15 range cannot be healed with magic and only with potions.

There are certainly many, many instances where a RDM's main specialty has very little purpose or usefulness on end game NMs but absolutely no instances where a WHM has very little purpose. Basically WHM is an absolute must have for any event, no other job is as important, it's a staple. No other job has that kind of import. There are 10+ jobs that fulfill the role of 'damage dealer' but only 1 job that fulfills the role of 'healer'.

Amongst jobs that can enfeeble a target(including WHM, the so-called healing specialist), RDM is only slightly better than the others(A WHM/SCH can cast virtually any debuff a RDM can except Gravity or merit spells). Amongst jobs that can cure players, WHM is LEAGUES ahead of others.

[Tanakisnumberone]

thnx u for ur translation and explanation Camata, i rly appreciate this info

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Thanks for verifying I wont ever need to purchase Gravity II, also for wasting a space on a tripe spell rather than something you declined due to restricted space like Barlight and Bardark Devs!

[Economizer]

Hell in VW there's even a limit to how far you can venture from the planar rift location before you status is revoked.

Yeah, at very least everything that isn't immune to wind should be very susceptible to Gravity in Voidwatch.

Honestly, all people are asking for now is to be able to have the evasion down effect land even if the movement speed part does not.

[Ophannus]

Even when Paralyze II lands it almost never activates on high level NMs. Really most of RDM's enfeebling spells add almost nothing to help in a fight save for Dia III because its effects are never resisted and are consistent in duration/potency. Slow II is worthless because regular attacks by NMs aren't problematic to an alliance, it's the constant use of AoE's that will kill payers in 1 hit, which if 15+ people are attacking at once, almost every few seconds will be a TP move. So things like Slow II aren;t imporant anymore since everyone tanks with Fanatic's Drink. Back in 75 content where there was or 2 tanks sustaining damage and TP moves happened once every few minutes, Slow II was more useful because the mob actually used its regular melee attacks.

[idx1]

I feel like...Gravity II is COMPLETELY in the right direction via the stated manifesto.

RDM turning allies into demi-gods. Would you classify an ally that could trigger the weakness of every mob a demi-god? Like, a War that could proc red/blue on just about anything? But they need the skill-ups and adequate skill revel to do its!

OHP, call in the RDM. I need skillups, Gravity II it plox.
Kthx.

This is neo-RDM.

[Ketaru]

...yes, that was exactly my plan. (??)

Actually I was just trying to offer what information I could provide, sorry if this was knowledge that the whole player-base knew.

In any event, I will continue to deliver your feedback to the development team on the ways to enhance the useability of this spell.

I have to hand it to you, being able to say that without even the slightest hint of irony.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Gravity II, similar to Gravity, causes reduced movement speed as well as reduced evasion; however, it is stronger than that of Gravity. Interestingly enough the effects of Gravity II will overwrite the effects of Gravity, which means that if your timing is good, you can prolong this effect on enemies you are doing battle with.

Hopefully this gives some incentive to learn the spell, besides for completionist-only purposes.

This is the part that is baffling to players. The dev team wants us to use Gravity 1 then 2 to 'prolong the effect on enemies you are doing battle with', but neither actually land on 99% of the Notorious monsters players fight, so both spells are essentially worthless.

[saevel]

Howdy!

Since most of you seem quite curious about the effects of Gravity II and it's usefulness, I figured I would drop in here to let you know its effects and how it can be used.

Gravity II, similar to Gravity, causes reduced movement speed as well as reduced evasion; however, it is stronger than that of Gravity. Interestingly enough the effects of Gravity II will overwrite the effects of Gravity, which means that if your timing is good, you can prolong this effect on enemies you are doing battle with.

Hopefully this gives some incentive to learn the spell, besides for completionist-only purposes.

Don't take this the wrong way Camate, we know your just doing your job.

The reason Gravity 1 AND 2 is useless is because there is nothing we need to gravity that we can gravity. The -40 evasion would be quite helpful on many higher tier content, but due to the HNM's being immune to gravity the spell is never applied. We can understand the development teams desire to prevent high level HNM's from being kited, but breaking an entire set of spells is not a good answer. The stated solution by most of the community is to either remove the -movement from Gravity I / II and then remove the NM resistance, or split the resistances into two separate checks. Make the NM's immune to the -movement speed but leave them vulnerable to the -evasion effect.

[Merton9999]

I would have gotten as much benefit out of a post telling us the use of a new Deodorize II spell was to extend the duration of tier 1 Deodorize. Really, how can the devs miss that we have no need to lower the evasion of any mobs that gravity lands on?

The funniest part is I joked about RDM getting Deodorize II as the ultimate 99 spell when Spontaneity came out with a TEN minute timer. Honestly, Gravity II is almost as laughable.

I assume the higher potency is just on the evasion down effect, because I certainly haven't noticed slower movement speed. I was hoping at least that the mobs I cast Gravity II on would move, like, Fistule-gravity slow. At least it would have had comical use.

Really all I want to know is why, after two years of build up, the ultimate final spell for RDM is something we can't get any use out of. I can't imagine a more anti-clamactic let down than the 99 update note spell list.

[Greatguardian]

...yes, that was exactly my plan. (??)

Actually I was just trying to offer what information I could provide, sorry if this was knowledge that the whole player-base knew.

In any event, I will continue to deliver your feedback to the development team on the ways to enhance the useability of this spell.

I could not do your job. Your bosses seem to enjoy throwing you to the wolves on a daily basis.

[Alhanelem]

The only problem with the "useability of the spell" is that virtually all NMs of any consequence resist it.

I haven't found out yet, but I'd wager it's useless in Legion too. And that's full of NM type monsters- imagine if you could use gravity there... it would actually be USEFUL without being overpowered because you can't keep every mob gravitied.

[ManaKing]

I wonder if the Mods for this forum would even be able to express how pissed off RDMs are to Devs?

My guess is it would be lost in translation. Not really joking.

[Seriha]

I wonder if the Mods for this forum would even be able to express how pissed off RDMs are to Devs?

My guess is it would be lost in translation. Not really joking.

I figure an English dubbed Godzilla vs. <whatever> could do a good job.

[Luvbunny]

Perhaps they could fix it so that both Gravity 1+2 will land on HNM unresisted but with a bit shorter duration, say half of what it normally does - this will make both spells useful but not overpowering them to such extend. As for Spontaneity, it should be a 5 mnts JA not 10 mnts and should be meritable down to 3.5 mnts. They really need to actually do some works over there - we need some sort of a middle ground here. The new developers team seem to have no clue on what is good for the game and what the player base actually want - instead they keep doing what they think is best for them. Meaning do as little as possible and make sure the content is a hamster wheel grind of death that will last 3-5 years with only a handful of the player base able to complete it. Please bring back the previous group - the one who actually understand how to make a FUN ENJOYABLE contents.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Neither spell landing on NMs is overpowered, seriously.

[tyrantsyn]

You know I think it's kind of sad as a group we would be willling to take a compromise to this spell just to have it work at all. The spell is design with a purpose to slow down movement speed and lower the evasion of a mob. Separating the enfeebling stats or modifying it to work on end game challenge's just seem's like crap. We shouldn't have to take a nerf to a spell just to have it work correctly. And I think it's piss poor design on SE part to make every single NM boss since the level cap increase except for CC immune to the spell's effect's.

RDM does not get big flashy spell's to throw around. What the job should have is a strong utility spell base, that do there job when used. Gravity I & II should be in this category. They shouldn't be something we never go too because since the level cap increase every single boss type NM that come's along is completely resistant to them.

We all understand there's a fear of the overpowered RDM. But the current solution to keeping RDM from pulling off these super natural feats of the past, has left the job lackluster. I'm not saying it still doesn't hold some purpose in the rank's. But it's failing in it's own department of being a top tier en-feebler due to end game content immunity's. Immunity's like Gravity.

[Mageoholic]

Why not just make Gravity a unique nuke. One that carries an enfeeble with it. If you are so worried about the -movement speed allowing players to kite mobs in circles scrap it an put a damage modifier in their. Have Gravity I be on par with the nukes in its level range (T2) and provide evasion down, and Gravity II be on par with the nukes in its range (T5's) with evasion down.

Then carry this idea forward with other such lackluster enfeebles like Break.

Elemental magic has damaging spells with enfeebles tied to them, why not have this work the other way as well?

[Manicora]

VW T6 Got a few times over sold each no less than 500k no more than 750K and still have not used on my Rdm.

[tyrantsyn]

Kudos, since I posted on the 11th, Gravity II price's have drop to around 100k on quetz. Not that the 2 have anything to do with one another. I'm sure it has more to do with VWNM being spammed and most of the sucker's have been bled out and all that's left is the other half of the RDM's who refused to pay top gil for it.

[Camate]

While this was communicated in the past, as a general direction for enfeebling magic adjustments as a whole (not limiting it to Gravity only), the development team is planning to make adjustments so it is more difficult for NMs and other high-level monsters to resist these spells.

[tyrantsyn]

kk............ Thank you Camate.

[saevel]

While this was communicated in the past, as a general direction for enfeebling magic adjustments as a whole (not limiting it to Gravity only), the development team is planning to make adjustments so it is more difficult for NMs and other high-level monsters to resist these spells.

Many things have been communicated in the past and either haven't happened yet or were altered. Seeing as there have been no changes on the test server, we're looking at potentially 3~6 months before any changes to enfeebling magic happens.

The Dev's didn't even acknowledge that Sab and Dia III don't work right together. Only the duration on the Dia line is extended, the effect is unaltered. I reported this as both a bug and here on this forum and nothing's been said from the Devs.

[Ophannus]

Does it work with Dia II? If so is the defense down with Sabo+Dia II>Dia III? Maybe it's for balance purposes?

[Helel]

Many things have been communicated in the past and either haven't happened yet or were altered. Seeing as there have been no changes on the test server, we're looking at potentially 3~6 months before any changes to enfeebling magic happens.

The Dev's didn't even acknowledge that Sab and Dia III don't work right together. Only the duration on the Dia line is extended, the effect is unaltered. I reported this as both a bug and here on this forum and nothing's been said from the Devs.

It's not a bug... They changed it so that Dia is not affected by saboteur right after it was released--probably why they haven't responded to you.

[Ophannus]

Probably because Dia III is already kind of powerful in that it's Defense-15% on demand which can be pretty potent since you can cast it basically whenever, and doubling its potency with Saboteur would be quite powerful, though I think you can enhance its potency with Light Shot however. Or maybe Light Shot increased its duration, probably need to test it.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

While this was communicated in the past, as a general direction for enfeebling magic adjustments as a whole (not limiting it to Gravity only), the development team is planning to make adjustments so it is more difficult for NMs and other high-level monsters to resist these spells.

While I'm truly grateful for the reply, that doesn't fix the immunity problem.

[Alhanelem]

While this was communicated in the past, as a general direction for enfeebling magic adjustments as a whole (not limiting it to Gravity only), the development team is planning to make adjustments so it is more difficult for NMs and other high-level monsters to resist these spells.
That's good. There are enough Useless Useful Spells (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UselessUsefulSpell)
in the single player FFs. Having at least one game where they actually are useful would be nice...

There are plenty of ways you can limit the over-use of powerful enfeebling magic without simply making every monster immune to every enfeeble spell and thereby eliminating red mage's and any other job's enfeebling capabilities from usefulness.

[Greatguardian]

Does it work with Dia II? If so is the defense down with Sabo+Dia II>Dia III? Maybe it's for balance purposes?

If you're curious, it's easy to test. I wrote out the methodology I used to test for Dia 3 in a couple threads here at least.

[Neisan_Quetz]

While I'm truly grateful for the reply, that doesn't fix the immunity problem.

Well they did say resist.... Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but they probably think of them as the same.

Would it be possible to get some clarification just in case? Will this adjustment to enfeebling magic affect spells which currently cannot land on notorious monsters at all, not even with Elemental Seal?

[ManaKing]

Well they did say resist.... Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but they probably think of them as the same.

Would it be possible to get some clarification just in case? Will this adjustment to enfeebling magic affect spells which currently cannot land on notorious monsters at all, not even with Elemental Seal?

I'm pretty sure that is the question of the hour. Well stated.

[Mageoholic]

Ya the issue isn't with them landing really, they can land fine for the most part (at least the big ones) the issue with them is their effect is almost meaningless. Why with the TP spam, or certain NM's avoiding them all together because their moves are considered TP moves, the list of issues with enfeebles being useless goes on and on and on.

Then there is our merit spells, a luzly bunch they are. the difference between a Slow II 1/5 and a slow II 5/5 is all of .2 seconds on an average mobs attack rate. Hardly worth the crap ton of merits. Does anyone even have Blind II? Well outside of procing purposes (so I guess before VW did anyone even have Blind II?). The worst part of it all is the T1 versions of all of our T2 merits are all better in terms of duration/mana efficiency, and damn close in terms of effect/mana efficiency. Unless you take them to 5/5 which you can't do with every spell. That is a pretty big issue, prior to abyssea the amount of time we had to spend getting spells that are slightly upgraded versions of spells we already had, and only being able to make 2-3 be of any worth. Time sink of merits. Hours and hours of killing pink birds, and lizard men, for spells that now are essentially useless.

The other issue with enfeebling is that RDM is the highest natural enfeebler, whose only true native enfeeble is resisted by everything under the sun unless we are chilling in some pre ToAU content. All because back in the day a few people who had exceptional skill and tolerance for kiting a mob around and tickling to death for hours, and because a few BLM's and RDM's got a BRD and learned how to manaburn for EXP, while everyone else was out Arrow Burning. I can understand at the time it was a good idea...but then you went and made Colibri and removed BLM's and Nuking RDM's from the EXP scene, but also kept the restrictive nature of the Bind/Gravity Nerf.

But that is only have of it. Now many jobs are soloing content, RDM's, BST's, PUP's, SMN's, BLU's, BLM's, SCH's, PLD's, THF's, NIN's, DNC's, DRGs.(im sure I am missing a few). Now each of these jobs has a kind of different means to do it. Except RDM and its weaker nukes, and weaker DD. RDM is supposed to buff and cripple mobs in order to gain that upper hand. Why can a DNC or THF or NIN benefit from their awesome evasion, NINs enfeebles, DNC's heals, why can all those jobs tools work, and not RDM's? Our skill set is designed to buff and debuff, and we can not do either really (which is another argument entirely.)

Gravity and Bind are our distance maker spells, it allows us to make up the damage difference of T5's by being able to cast 2 quick nukes before the mob closes on us. Bind should be a spell available to all who can cast it, it is how we keep ourselves away from a mobs deadly melee strikes as nukers. (the break on DMG is fine but it needs to be able to land.) That these spells are completely removed is why you hear and see of people pinning a mob on a fence or trapping an Iron Giant on a cliff (which you fixed! and still overlooked the reason why it was done!).

What you have now is a dozen jobs all of soloing stuff, using their unique abilities, yet RDM's unique abilities work on very few targets, they are crap merits that should be scrolls, and the whole skill set of RDM "being a buff/debuff not great at anything but using these tools can make it pretty good at a lot of things" kind of non existent. Half our primary casting skill set is useless, the other half at least has 2 spells that are any good in a group, and our secondary stuff (melee/nuking/healing) is all over the place with it being bad - good - ugly.

Its not just enfeebling, you have a job that has been neglected any attention to actual issues since 2004. You keep throwing things that don't help or hinder at all. You give us Dagger Weaponskills with no Daggers, you give us New buffs we can only use on ourselves, you give us new enfeebles that don't work, you give us old nukes that work fine. So on and so forth the list goes on and on and on.

This job needs massive attention, it has for nearly 8 years, just because it was the cats ass in ToAU doesn't mean it was good, it was practically useless outside of chainspell stun, a gimmick we need a specific subjob to use. (and I guess tanking but you nerfed that too!).

Figure the shit out SE because as much as id like to see enfeebling fixed, you got a lot of shit wrong with this job, and you need to get on it.

(wow good rant sorry)

[Mageoholic]

Its not just enfeebling, you have a job that has been neglected any attention to actual issues since 2004.

Just to add to this.

Every time we as a player base have found a unique use for this job you have nerfed it, or buffed others to penalize it. Soloing...nerfed (revived by talented people with Crimson legs.) Tanking...nerfed (even though in your how to beat AV video you had a RDM/NIN tanking the damn HNM) Cure/Buff rotation...indirect buff (BRD SMN COR can all /RDM and provide essentially the same support while at the same time providing their unique support, and in some cases great damage).

Now I am done I think, at least until the next we are addressing your concerns spiel I've read since 2004.

[saevel]

It's not a bug... They changed it so that Dia is not affected by saboteur right after it was released--probably why they haven't responded to you.

Wrong.

Saboteur never worked with the Dia line. All it ever did was extend the duration and possibly increased the DoT (lol). Shortly after release Foldypaws tested its effect and found it not working, he told me about this on Vent. Later when SE fixed it's effects with Gravity / Bio I thought they also made it work with Sab. Testing posted here on this forum proved that Dia III's effect does not work with Sab as FP previously demonstrated. Thus it's NEVER worked with Sab.

Bug reported, issue mentioned several times, once it a post directed to the devs for the CR's to translate. The absolute least they could of done is come back saying that they thought about it but decided against it for "barance" reasons. At least they would be acknowledging the issue rather then just blatantly ignoring us. The fact that Gravity II was created at all shows that they devs give absolutely no thought to the RDM job. They created a spell that is worthless, doesn't even have situational use.

[Vagrua]

Why not just make enemies susceptible to all forms of Enfeebling Magic, but only if you have very high Enfeebling Magic or with Elemental Seal? Make it to where a RDM with good skill and gear is able to land them. At the moment, about any job can land enfeebles onto a mob unless it's resistant. This kind of throws RDM off to me since it is supposed to be its specialty.

I'm not saying its DD capabilities couldn't be improved also. As stated, many jobs can solo content well now. RDM can still accomplish this, but it takes much longer. Enspells could be improved to up the damage. Perhaps a merit category added for upping the damage of Enspells in the future.

[saevel]

Why not just make enemies susceptible to all forms of Enfeebling Magic, but only if you have very high Enfeebling Magic or with Elemental Seal? Make it to where a RDM with good skill and gear is able to land them. At the moment, about any job can land enfeebles onto a mob unless it's resistant. This kind of throws RDM off to me since it is supposed to be its specialty.

I'm not saying its DD capabilities couldn't be improved also. As stated, many jobs can solo content well now. RDM can still accomplish this, but it takes much longer. Enspells could be improved to up the damage. Perhaps a merit category added for upping the damage of Enspells in the future.

To your first point, it's a function of the magic accuracy formula. Resists are not a single check but a series of checks with an ever decreasing potency / duration (depending on spell). Anyone who receives a "resist" message more then 50% of the time (assuming capped skill) means that mob has ridiculous magic resistant to that enfeebled. It's easy to check resist rates, cast a bunch of elemental spells of the same element of the enfeeble (Blizzard for example). Note your elemental magic and write down the number of full / half / quarter resists. Cast an equal amount of the enfeeble (paralyze) write down your enfeebling magic and the number of resists / lands. If the number of resists is larger then the number of elemental half resists, then the monster has special resistance to that debuff effect that goes beyond it's normal elemental resistance. You see this ~A LOT~ with Paralyze. You have no problem landing full damage Blizzard IV's on something, they land for full damage more then 75% of the time. Your Paralyzes are constantly being resisted, and when they do land you never / rarely see a proc (indicating potency reduction). The monster has a 100~150+ magic resistance to that enfeeble on top of their C or higher rated elemental resistance.

To your second point, it really depends. I do Dynamis with 1~3 other friends often. Usually I'm with my duo partner who likes to go BLU/DNC and me go RDM/DNC. We both have 90 Almace and corresponding gear. I will do half of the damage, if not slightly more do to enspells and DC dynamis mobs having high defense for their level. Together we'll clear out entire camps on our own, camps of DC's not EPs. Once you scale up to higher / harder monsters then RDM drops down in damage potential, especially as the BLU can go /WAR with DWIII and berserk and really crank up their damage. We're solidly a mediocre DD job, capable of dealing significant damage but not in the same ballpark as a SAM / WAR / MNK / DRG / DRK or the aforementioned BLU/WAR. Biggest issue we have is no gear to scale up with, while those jobs (and the BLU) keep getting better and better gear. Temper really helps our melee potential, along with a 500 enhancing magic set for 30 damage enspells that don't get resisted often and +25 to our melee stat of choice.

[Greatguardian]

Why not just make enemies susceptible to all forms of Enfeebling Magic, but only if you have very high Enfeebling Magic or with Elemental Seal? Make it to where a RDM with good skill and gear is able to land them. At the moment, about any job can land enfeebles onto a mob unless it's resistant. This kind of throws RDM off to me since it is supposed to be its specialty.

I'm not saying its DD capabilities couldn't be improved also. As stated, many jobs can solo content well now. RDM can still accomplish this, but it takes much longer. Enspells could be improved to up the damage. Perhaps a merit category added for upping the damage of Enspells in the future.

Accuracy and Magic Accuracy both floor at 20%, is essentially what it comes down to. My Chi Mnk/Whm in 2004 could land Silence on Suzaku for the entire duration of his Chainspell as long as I spammed it enough to get it to land initially.

This means that essentially any job will be able to land any enfeeble they want on the monster if it's not immune by sheer virtue of spamming the 20% land rate until they get it. The way the current magic system works, it's not possible to distinctly say "Okay, anyone over 400 enfeebling skill can land on this but anyone under it can't".

Boggles the mind how they came up with some of this stuff in the first place.

[Kitkat]

While this was communicated in the past, as a general direction for enfeebling magic adjustments as a whole (not limiting it to Gravity only), the development team is planning to make adjustments so it is more difficult for NMs and other high-level monsters to resist these spells.

Hard to believe this, Camate. We heard of these proposed changes almost a year ago and to date not much of anything has changed for the better on this. Unless you call bringing a rdm to VWNM on the chance you might need their Merited spells to proc a positive change? It's frustrating to see a job that was once wanted/desired for endgame be completely over looked now because of its very limited functional use.

So...thanks for more empty promises, but I'm not holding my breath....

[tyrantsyn]

While this was communicated in the past, as a general direction for enfeebling magic adjustments as a whole (not limiting it to Gravity only), the development team is planning to make adjustments so it is more difficult for NMs and other high-level monsters to resist these spells.

I was a bit perplex when reading this last night, so I didn't want to really rush in before thinking about it. But this is what I believe I'm understanding about it. Basically If I can land the spell on a current mob now, than it will take longer in the future for it to build a resistance toward's it. So does this fix the over all immunity's that were seeing most of these end game NM's have? It doesn't sound like it. So it really doesn't sound like it solve's our current issue with gravity I or II.

[Kristal]

Gravity immunity can be done away with, if such enemies would have a [movement speed down] potency reduction of 100% instead. On mobs that build resistance over time, this number would start at 0 and increase by x% every cast, slowly reducing over time.

It can still resist, but it would mundane magic resistance.

[Mageoholic]

If that is the case they should just remove the -move speed from the spell itself and replace it with damage. Considering we don't have a demi line of spells, and have 2 spells that are useless why not change the names to Demi I and Demi II, can have them do T2 Elemental damage + EVA down, and T4 elemental damage + EVA down.

[tyrantsyn]

Taking a nerf to spell shouldn't be something we'd have to accept tho. And if we take this stance, than were just saying it's okay to do this type of thing in the future as well. Gravity should work the way it's intend. Since the level cap increase it's not RDM setting the standard's in the solo field. There's other job out there that are just as good at it and they don't have to spend half the time RDM does to get it done. In a time in FFXI history where good drops are control by proc'ing system's, limited battle field space's and a stronger emphasis on having a THF "and soon with legion, where killing speed will determine your drop rate's" there's no reason to still be beating RDM over the head with the Nerf stick.

I do like your Idea's on Demi Mage. It would be a nice unique end game spell for RDM to have.

[Mageoholic]

movement speed down is kind of redundant in todays game anyway why with most NM's possessing movement speed +. Id rather have a unique damage/enfeeble spell than one that has highly limited use. We can solo most stuff now just by getting it stuck on a fence and nuking its face off, or barring that just straight meleeing it to death /BLU in a -pdt set.

Granted my DNC and BLM both solo far better then my RDM does, but my RDM allows me to go out and be prepared for both a pin/nuke, or melee.

[tyrantsyn]

Ahh yes the wonderful increase movement speed. That was a wonderful addition by SE. Pretty much made run for your life "Impossible to do"

[Kristal]

I heard automatons COULD cast Gravity, but their AI rejects it for being pointless ;D

[tyrantsyn]

Found some use for gravity II the other day ago.

Used it twice to proc in dynamis :D