After 7 years...

[Hayward]

I'm beginning to wonder if this game is worth the effort anymore. Even before this update, which is about as underwhelming as it gets, I have been losing interest in almost all aspects of the game. Now that so few people are doing Abyssea armor upgrade trials, the game feels less alive than even a few months ago. Let's not even discuss Voidwatch.

With this update, I am almost at the point of wondering why I am buying Crysta. To play a game the developers obviously don't want people to play anymore? To play jobs that are deliberately being underpowered for specious reasons? To fight monsters that cannot be fought alone for items that are necessary for a level cap quest? To accumulate merit points for underpowered weapon skills with unpalatable aftermath effects?

I'm afraid S-E would have done well to just announce the shutting down of the servers after Heroes of Abyssea was winding down.

[saevel]

Honestly, I can hardly find a reason to login anymore. It's just not fun with what they've done post-abyssea. At least in Abyssea I could run around and do random things with small to mid sized groups of people. Now it seems like their trying to force Void Watch down our throats, with it's absolutely horrible loot system.

[Luvbunny]

I am glad I am not alone on this. Everything post Abyssea pretty much sucks and it's back to the hamster wheel grinds of 2003-2006. Just make sure you do not subscribe to FF14 and stop buying any products from SE. The only thing they will listen is the sound of money - nothing else will work. But yeah - the last 18 months have been awesome, glad I was able to enjoy Abyssea.

[Jackstin]

There's loads to do for a new player, it's almost overwhelming. Is it possible the reason you don't find it fun any more is not because the game has got so bad, but because you've been playing 7 years? That's a long time to play a game.

[Vold]

There's loads to do for a new player, it's almost overwhelming. Is it possible the reason you don't find it fun any more is not because the game has got so bad, but because you've been playing 7 years? That's a long time to play a game.Pretty much every complaint "why am I still playing?" thread is by a long time veteran player. It's a good question. My answer for them is because it's more interesting than watching paint dry. Notice I didn't say more fun, but interesting. When it comes to gaming we humans are a lot like cats. You dangle interesting content in front of us it holds our attention. But eventually we get bored after awhile and it becomes increasingly harder to hold our attention with the same bag of tricks.

Abyssea came in real handy to grab our attention again. I don't think it had much if anything to do with the nature of Abyssea. I guess it had something to do with it because if it were Voidwatch instead then we'd probably have like 10 people still playing right now. I think it mostly had to do with it being the first true addition to the game since sometime in 2008 after WotG started to lose it's new luster. It's been how long since ToAU? that we've been without a serious expansion to the game. People are growing tired of rehashed monsters and zones. I'm sure WotG was no walk in the park but it's no Zilart, CoP, or ToAU. The game just doesn't have enough dev support. So vets have two choices: suck it up and support the FFXI team to show why the higher ups should care or jump ship and do something better with your time.

[Mirabelle]

Abyssea was pretty good for new content. Lots of NM's. A compelling new battle system with weakness proc'ing we'd never done before. Atmas to collect. Abyssites to collect. Seal hunting. +2 item collecting. Empyrean weapon items to collects. Easy levelling with multiple ways to do it.
Challenging battles were a plenty if you chose to eschew brewing everything tough.

Then they add VW which rehashes proc'ing and abyssites. Gives a terrible loot system with no sense of progress for players. All done in old areas with no new mobs other than the NM's (of which many are just variety's of Aby NM's).

I can see why some folks are losing interest.

They need a significant endgame content update but sadly I think they did their best work with Aby and there is no creativity left in the team to develop something even better. If VW becomes the final endgame event, that will be a very sad end for FFXI.

[Camiie]

Hayward and Mirabelle, all I can do is say "ditto" and hit the like button for you both. Totally agreed and I can't say it any better.

[Xellith]

I think many people thought that Abyssea was the start of a new beginning. In actuality it appears to have been the beginning of the end.

[Greatguardian]

I was really excited after this update went live.

There's actually a lot of stuff to do. My friends and I are actually logging in on weekdays for the first time in months.

I'm sorry, but I absolutely can't sympathize with you. I'm having fun.

[Elphy]

I quit ffxi awhile ago after nearly 7 yrs of playing, just here on the forums to see what ppls are saying about the new update. I'm pretty much main gaming xiv right now since that is getting all kinds of good fixes and some fun (although limited atm due to all the fixes) new content. Plus the fact that with the coming of v2 in a year, most of the existing content will be gone. The quests, the primal fights, the rare/ex (or Unique/Untradable as its known there), the nm, the dungeons, etc etc will all be replaced as the new story line sets in. Seems we are going to have a Kefka-esk breaking of the world (which is how they will explain getting rid of the cut/paste job the old devs did on the maps). So its pretty exciting right now.

It seems most the vets that got bored in xi are now the ppl who play xiv. Everyone in my ls played xi for 6+ years, some even did beta on it and left after aby was released. Yes the game still gets a bad rap but thats mainly from ppl who played nothing but the broken version and havent involved themselves too much in the newer stuff, if at all. If you want ff the way ff used to be its the place to go. Especially in playership, very few trolls or thefts in xiv right now. The players, as I said are mostly vets, so they have that honor code that used to exist in xi for the most part.

[Ilax]

Problem with XI is how SE made quest retard too hard at start, and people in general was just hunting a dream that never came true.

Abyssea was just WAY TOO EASY, even producer realize it now... It been the worse thing SE made.

VW is by far not like the game use to be in 2002... not even close, of course people will cry baby because when they trigger, they assume to get drop @ 95% (thanks Abyssea for that analogy). In fact you can spam VW 50 time per day if you want, and i am pretty sure you will get the item you looking for on the same day... Old content was 1 chance claim nidhogg every 3~7 day for a miserable 1% chance drop on best item. So comparing VW to old stuff is flawed by tons...

But yes, when i read relic/mythic need to get 1,000 item for last stage and NM they have to fight PW and Diabolos for 1x item, i am sorry but that is plain wrong.

I wont ever play 14, nor i will play any other GAME SE create in future, at least not till they prove me they can make a great MMO, something they failed since release of XI, and the next part just make it worse.


"Right now, we are at the beginning stages of this content, but as we go forward, we can make adjustments to respond to more casual playstyles," Tanaka promises. "If we set the difficulty low right from the start, everyone focuses on that content and quickly grows bored with it. Our style is to give the new content some bite at first, and then start to loosen up, little by little.

Translation: We will make the game a nightmare for hardcore player, then we will lower the difficulty stupid easy.

This is pure lack of respect for who care of the game. SE you could have made Empy weapon a good RIVAL for relic owner, but instead you made it BETTER and lowered difficulty on relic.... You could have release RIVAL gear for HNM gear, no... instead you made all HARDWORKED (6yr long) gear a piece of crap compared to abyssea gear.

I am sorry, but is all that kind of mistake that make your FAN hating you, and doubt any serious player would go play your lol-future game.

/hate off.

[Raxiaz]

Honestly, I feel like Ilax summed up my feelings pretty well. But everyone in this topic has a good point.

[Ravenmore]

They messed up HNM gear from the start using the 1% drop rate and long respawn hoop jumping to serve as long lasting content. They could had cut the time sink while adding new fresh content at a high pace but going so long with only sidegrades with things only being a couple of % better for far more work.

Its true for many this was our first and for other, its was title, then some it was both but SE has now learn that trading on title no longer works look at FF14 and how they can't get more the 30k players to play for free. I don't agree with the same cause as Ilax it does show that it even being up for debate, SE has lost the spark that once had drawn me in.

[Kimble]

Im pretty sure nidhogg was actually a 25%+ drop rate on the iteam you want. One abjuration was 100% drop, and there was 4 of them (a body, m body, n legs and e body) and there as a change it would drop a 2nd abjuration too.

And yeah, honestly, I agree. This update was basically more VW for low drop rate on side-grade gear, merits on WSs that most arent even worth doing, and more dynamis for even more sidegrade gear.

Its either, spam an event and hope you get lucky for not much of a reward, or do an event you have been doing for years for a good chance at side grade gear you wont even use.

[Malamasala]

I just wish SE put a little more content for everyone in the games.

As a SMN I've worn JSE (2004?), AF(2003), Relic(2003), Empyrean(2010). All other years SE hasn't added any set worth wearing on SMN. That means 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011 were all just years where you couldn't progress in the game but just had to stomp your feet where you stood.

All they ever add are the pointless WHM and BLM armors. Here, get +14 INT! Yea, what does that do for Ifrit? Does it make my spirit smarter? All it does is help me WS spirit taker, and I don't even get haste and accuracy gear combos like melee jobs.

[Humie]

Im starting to wonder why I still play they have just made gear to hard to obtain even on kings they would drop 1-2 abjurations a kill, voidwatch isnt even worth doing my LS has done void watch twice a week every week for around 5-6 hours per event and we have had 2 bodies drop.

Weve lost so many members in the last few months (mainly quiting or giving up end game content) that we are wondering if its even worth carrying on. Most people have given up all hope of getting the items they want from void watch as the drop rates are so bad.

Now they give us this 1000 items per relic/mythic/emperium upgrade from mobs that take 18 people, its going from bad to worse.

After 7 years of playing 6 days a week and enjoying it I now cant find any reson to even log on

[Meyi]

To the OP, it all depends on if you think a video game should ever be worth effort or not. FFXI has a lot of really fun events to participate in, if you allow yourself to enjoy them for what they are. Sometimes even events that make you grind your teeth can be fun once in a blue moon.

As for rewards, they're all pixels...

I dunno. After 8 years of playing I'm still having fun.

[Kiroko]

All I have to say to you people who think "FF is boring" or "FF is too easy" or "FF sucks", is quit then if you hate it enough to log onto the forums and complain about how bad FF is. You aren't really giving any ideas on how to make it better, not trying to improve the game, which is really what the purpose of the forums are for. If you guys seriously can't find a reason to play, then DON'T PLAY

[Behemothx]

To the OP, it all depends on if you think a video game should ever be worth effort or not. FFXI has a lot of really fun events to participate in, if you allow yourself to enjoy them for what they are. Sometimes even events that make you grind your teeth can be fun once in a blue moon.

As for rewards, they're all pixels...

I dunno. After 8 years of playing I'm still having fun.

This ^ pretty much :P Some people have the social skills of a dog and think this game is all about acquiring the latest/best items right now. I don't know about you, but some of my best times in XI have been playing with random people and having fun.

[Ilax]

All I have to say to you people who think "FF is boring" or "FF is too easy" or "FF sucks", is quit then if you hate it enough to log onto the forums and complain about how bad FF is. You aren't really giving any ideas on how to make it better, not trying to improve the game, which is really what the purpose of the forums are for. If you guys seriously can't find a reason to play, then DON'T PLAY

Forum are also there for us to give feed back, and i think is what we are doing here. Hating the direction FFXI is taking, that don't mean i hate the game... Improve the game also mean listen player base, sometime i wonder if they even read.

[Kiroko]

Forum are also there for us to give feed back, and i think is what we are doing here. Hating the direction FFXI is taking, that don't mean i hate the game... Improve the game also mean listen player base, sometime i wonder if they even read.
They probably don't and I wouldn't either if I was them. I just see this as a thread for people to complain about what they hate. Yes, that's apart of the purpose, but there's not too much ideas on how to make the game better. All I see is people complaining about what they hate, there's not too much about how to make the game better. They don't know what you guys want.

[Hayward]

My starting this thread may very well have come from mental fatigue or simple boredom, but I wouldn't have posted if it were just to complain about the update. Yes 7 years is a long time to have been playing. I've mostly enjoyed my time in the game but there comes a point where it's just too difficult to keep up that enjoyment against a development team that seems intent on driving me and others away.

[Nala]

This ^ pretty much :P Some people have the social skills of a dog and think this game is all about acquiring the latest/best items right now. I don't know about you, but some of my best times in XI have been playing with random people and having fun.

While that may be true, peeps in my linkshell are becoming sparse, the people i play the game for, that is to say the people i enjoy interacting with. Though right now skyrim is mostly to blame, our numbers have been gradually thinning since we started void watch.

[Camiie]

I was really excited after this update went live.

There's actually a lot of stuff to do. My friends and I are actually logging in on weekdays for the first time in months.

I'm sorry, but I absolutely can't sympathize with you. I'm having fun.


But see you're an elite player. You've said so yourself. I think this update is great for someone like you, but for someone like me... it feels like the game is slipping away or rather slipping backwards. Once I'm finally done with Abyssea what's going to be left for a common player like me? Elemental magian trials? And against what am I to use these magian weapons? Maybe they'll come up with something, but if the past 2 updates are any indication it seems FFXI is done with the likes of me. It's all yours now, I guess.

[Greatguardian]

But see you're an elite player. You've said so yourself. I think this update is great for someone like you, but for someone like me... it feels like the game is slipping away or rather slipping backwards. Once I'm finally done with Abyssea what's going to be left for a common player like me? Elemental magian trials? And against what am I to use these magian weapons? Maybe they'll come up with something, but if the past 2 updates are any indication it seems FFXI is done with the likes of me. It's all yours now, I guess.

This is what I don't understand.

What about these past few updates has been elite content? Voidwatch? That's about it for things that require a linkshell or alliance, really. Anyone can solo Dynamis, and there's now actually stuff to get from it aside from currency. Relic+2 is pretty nice stuff, and the "+3" augments look interesting to say the least.

Walk of Echoes is mostly casual pickup stuff, and while it's often relegated to untenable status due to a lack of interest on most servers, this affects both elite and regular players equally. I leveled Summoner for WoE because going in solo without support on any non-pet job was just asking to eat dirt the whole time.

Some of the new WS are actually worth getting, this is especially true for non-relic non-Empyrean players. They were most certainly not built for anyone who had actually completed Empyreans. They're also obtained via EXP, which is pretty much the definition of non-elite event.

I mean really, even if you're solo, casual, and have no gear beyond full perle you can solo Dynamis at your own pace to complete whatever Relic+2/3 you want. You'll even earn a nice chunk of change by selling off the ancient currency or unnecessary "Forgotten" pieces later.

[Kimble]

Well, a few things.

One, telling them you don't like where the game is going is good feedback. It's pretty much saying, "whatever you do, don't keep dong this"

I think really the problem has come down to "great, i just got all this new gear... now what do I do with it?"

[detlef]

For me, this update was eh. I actually think that the new VW tier is a lot of content, especially since we're still far, far (far far far) short of what we want from previous VW tiers.

What's got me kinda bummed out is the relic/mythic/empy upgrades. Empy looks hard but maybe doable to 99. Relic and Mythic look like a complete dead end at 95. I know, I know, we don't know if they will revamp ZNM and nobody has actually confirmed 100% the location of the level 99 relic upgrade item. And we don't know if the test server numbers are final. Also, I'm aware that this affects about 1% of the FFXI population. But that's what's been weighing on my mind lately.

[MAXWINTER]

My main focus is 14 now but back on ff11 a bit and still have not updated the new patch on 14 so will do that tommorow.
Also sound's stupid but one things i now hating about ff11 is exp loss even though i played game for 8 years.
still i thinking of solo the main campaign again once i get to 95 or 99 depending on hard hard this new fight is that everyone going on about atm.

[Runespider]

When Abyssea was the main show in town I would log on and have a million different things I could go and do, logging in now (even after these updates) and I just feel like I used to long ago before Aby was released. Bored and having to ponder long and hard for things to try do ingame, instead of just staring at the moogle spin.

VW fights are fun but the drops are weak and silly rare...and it's just more of the same again this update. The new WS are fun to look at and some are decent but it's kinda hard to put in the effort when you know they are primarily just for show and once the novely wears you won't use em. :/

The last 2 updates have been truely terrible and it's sad to see the state of the game now, I'm getting the old feeling back from just before Aby..when I was more or less forcing myself to stick around. Struggling to fill my playtime with unrewarding events I'd done over and over, enms that took hours to get to, that there was pretty much nothing to do outside of ls events, BCNMs for gil I didn't need, HNM camps for stuff we could never claim..and that would refuse to drop the 1 item the ls peopel needed if we did.

I love FFXI but with such incompetent people in charge I'm not sure how long it has left now, or how long most of us will want to carry on logging in anymore. I can't play old FFXI again, just before Aby it was all about convincing myself and friends to carry on..finding stuff to do instead of just standing around in wg..

One thing I'm sure of, if they ruin this great MMO for me I will never ever touch another online game they put out. Going through what was horrible about FFXI once is one thing, doing it again when they show they have learned nothing would be retarded. I and many other hardcore players complained endlessly about boting and cheating and they did nothing, I don't want to be in a position of being addicted to a game again these people run. They blatantly ignored us before aby and they are doing it again now, that is not a nice position to be in as a player.

[Ilax]

DEV need to keep release content for casual player, and content for hardcore player, both gear should RIVAL to give everyone motivation. They need to stop to spam only one type at once, that make no one happy.

Abyssea was only to please casual player
VW is only to please hardcore player.

They also need to stop ruin the hardcore content by changing the difficulty just to please casual player. Speaking of it, how you guy would like if DEV turn abyssea hardcore, say they remove cruor buff, brew, higher the level and difficulty of every mob/nm? Then call it: Abyssea Reborn!! I swear god all casual player would bitch about it.

It get to the point where everything turn no challenge, and everyone wear the same thing, the only difference really is how one group worked hard to get it, while other group do it super easy and making fun of the hardcore player.

[Kaych]

I agree with the OP.
I havent logged on FFXI in a good while. There has been alot of problems with the game since the very start and it seems like SE just keep adding new problems and spend years of fixing old ones...

-The RDMs still cant DD with their swords. The DPS is still horrible and the WSes is laughable. It takes so much effort to even be half as good as a "proper" DD (MNK, WAR etc). And watever excuse SE use to "justify" this is always a bad excuse...

-SMNs still have their bloodpact problems. Only one DD-bloodpact every 45 seconds cant compare to the regulaire DDs and the lvl 1 - 65 bloodpacts is still as useless as ever (cept maybe a couple).

-PUPs have finally gotten the update they deserve, but it took them years to get them... (the same as pretty much everything in this game, hint WotG)

-Abyssea made everything else bad. You got gil, exp and armor from abyssea that was basicly better than anywere else in the game. The fact that SE didnt consider this WHEN they implemented abyssea is embarrassing. It has taken them too long to implement the trial of magians-system to "fix" old endgame items.

The list is soooooo long that I dont want to make another really long wall-of-text, but one would think that after so many phail-updates and complaining from the community, SE would maybe stop adding new problems before they fix the old ones...

[Seiowan]

I returned to the game mostly because of Abyssea. I was a previous player, on a different account since I lost my credentials, but Abyssea had enough lure to drag me into Vana'diel once more. It was great. I could login for short bursts, actually get something accomplished and then log off happy.

Why oh why isn't that going to be true for future content?

I tried Walk of Echoes to get my missing high level scrolls (By high level I mean everything added after the level 90 cap). Countless runs and only one scroll drop. Holy II. Thanks SE... appreciate the sentiment. The prices are now through the roof (2mil each) and Walk of Echoes is more barren than Mars.

Voidwatch throws some interesting fights around, but truth be told, that's all I think of them as. Fights to be fought for the sake of killing something. The drop system is so mind-bogglingly horrendous, that I can't imagine many people actually getting anything useful out of it and, from my perspective at least, there's only a small handful of items worth owning.

Right now, there are still plenty of things to keep me interested, but I confess that the majority of them are vested in Abyssea. One day the devs might learn that if something is popular, you should probably keep building on it rather than throwing it away and re-hashing the less popular stuff.

[Tarage]

Short answer is no.

[MAXWINTER]

@runespider - sad to hear your pov on the game atm , it probley the reason why i gone from the game and only back a short while, not because i hardcore player like you but because of the frustration of trying to do things in final fantasy 11.
This was probley down to my job choice and my next level after pld atm is 52 war.

My view is the game needs a new expansion but if they keep adding things for player like you even if it new goal then that would keep game going i think , for me it a different story , i be sticking with ff14 and looking at dragon quest to hope it plays more like a phantasy star online type game (maybe not combat wise though) than like how these two games have been playing.

Still the offline games are still around if you get burnt out by online games then try them they will always keep you busy a fair bit.

[Izzybella]

In My Opinion:
To me an MMO should have a natural progression. You get higher levels, you have harder mobs and you get greater rewards. Not 'leech every job to 99, buy chocobo blinkers with cruor, sell for gil, BUY said greater rewards'. The biggest bummer to me has been the gear that I spent months, if not years, acquiring (relic) is collecting dust. (oh yes, new content allows you to +2 relic now...yay...NOT!)

Abyssea content has been fun. I can go solo DOM OPs for seals/xp/cruor or I can get in a group for +2 items. I think the biggest gut-buster for the game was allowing level 30 to come into Abyssea. (yes, this...again) I would guesstimate a third of the player base now doesn't even have a map to Crawlers Nest. Why should they? Its now just a place to book burn to 30 then hop to Abyssea.

and stop with the proc of mobs for Altana's sake! It was fine in Abyssea, new, different. We don't need it for VW. Especially how RANDOM. SE wants every job accounted for in order to get crappy drops or chances of 1/100 decent drops? If you had made the proc system in abyssea more 'balanced' then you wouldn't be trying to make up for it with the crappy VW system.

VW is not the way I see end(ing)-game content. You give us the content/ability to low-man then promptly take it away.

Now to the 'random seal drops off Dom Ops/Quests': How can it be so hard to allow a choice? Either soloing or in a party. So many times I have gotten seals I don't want/need but someone else in the party does...and they get the one I want/need. Make it a choice to take or add to the pool!! HOW HARD CAN THAT BE??? Wasting my time does NOT endear me to play more. It just makes me sad.

[saevel]

I am glad I am not alone on this. Everything post Abyssea pretty much sucks and it's back to the hamster wheel grinds of 2003-2006. Just make sure you do not subscribe to FF14 and stop buying any products from SE. The only thing they will listen is the sound of money - nothing else will work. But yeah - the last 18 months have been awesome, glad I was able to enjoy Abyssea.

Pretty much this. Tanaka won't listen to any player feedback, he's already demonstrated that with his little interview Q&A. The only thing he will listen to is his boss's telling him to fix it or he'll be desk warming. Shareholders do not like red ink, they don't like lost profits and they really don't like individuals who think their more important then the owners of the company. Right now we're at a point where we take our feedback to the shareholders either in the form of letters to the CEO / company President or through voting with your wallets.

[Cahlum]

SE needs to release new casual content every update and new hardcore content every update. VW is not hardcore as it requires 0 skill just luck with procs, I am amazed that they have not added brews to VW yet as they have done to WoE...

All I want is an 18 man event that requires fun challenging strats, no proc system, no brews, no temp KIs, no auto-reraise, no atma and no time limit.

Add some fun new NMs for hardcore players that provides great gear that can be pooled, people may say that old FFXI is worse I agree in some ways but I certainly do miss 30+ man dynamis runs where you had certain parties for things like sleeping, stat killing, kiting, tanking, DD it was fun as you felt like you fit into a part of the strategy rather than throw 12 DDs at it when a mob is proced and hope for the best.

[Glamdring]

I was really excited after this update went live.

There's actually a lot of stuff to do. My friends and I are actually logging in on weekdays for the first time in months.

I'm sorry, but I absolutely can't sympathize with you. I'm having fun.

'Down with GG on this one, getting the hell out of Aby makes me happy as a clam! I hated what that system did to player skill, and the player mind-set. "I just did 6k damage on 1 WS!" BFD, the IMPORTANT question is did you win and did it accomplish anything for somebody? There's alot more to a good game than a DPS parser, I should know, playing since NA release, never used one even once, and have enjoyed almost all of it... until Abyssea put the game in easy mode. I get more gratification playing solitaire on my PC than I do playing anything in Aby; I go there because I HAVE to for some of the gear that I want, not because it's in any fashion satisfying.

[Meyi]

I would guesstimate a third of the player base now doesn't even have a map to Crawlers Nest.

To be fair my 8 year old Elvaan still doesn't have the Crawler's Nest map, nor does my 2 year old Taru. I can assure you it's not because of Abyssea.

[Ravenmore]

DEV need to keep release content for casual player, and content for hardcore player, both gear should RIVAL to give everyone motivation. They need to stop to spam only one type at once, that make no one happy.

Abyssea was only to please casual player
VW is only to please hardcore player.

They also need to stop ruin the hardcore content by changing the difficulty just to please casual player. Speaking of it, how you guy would like if DEV turn abyssea hardcore, say they remove cruor buff, brew, higher the level and difficulty of every mob/nm? Then call it: Abyssea Reborn!! I swear god all casual player would bitch about it.

It get to the point where everything turn no challenge, and everyone wear the same thing, the only difference really is how one group worked hard to get it, while other group do it super easy and making fun of the hardcore player.

There is NOTHING hardcore about the fights or any of the content outside of drop rates. If that is you idea of hardcore then wow. I remember a time when lowmaning something was the only way to prove you were hardcore. Everything in the(not including the things even the "hardcore elilte" couldn't beat") game back at 75 could be beaten with the tried a true body toss. The fact that they force you to take 18, theres no point in lowmaning the hard fights to prove yourself. Also that was the game pre-abyssea too. Take off the glasses.

[Ahrana]

Honestly I've just become bored with the same content day in and day out. At 75 cap we had a lot of things we could do every night:

Dynamsis
Limbus
Einherjar
ZNM's
Nyzul/Assaults
Salvage
Burning circles (Bahamut V1/2, KS99's, etc)
Sky
Sea

Compare that to:
VW
Abyssea
WoE

I've burned out of these activities, they're fun for a while but there's little variety anymore. Honestly they really need a full expansion on par with CoP or ToAU to bring something fresh to the table, instead of just releasing mini-expansions and boring fight systems in the same areas we've been in since 2004.

[Ilax]

There is NOTHING hardcore about the fights or any of the content outside of drop rates. If that is you idea of hardcore then wow. I remember a time when lowmaning something was the only way to prove you were hardcore. Everything in the(not including the things even the "hardcore elilte" couldn't beat") game back at 75 could be beaten with the tried a true body toss. The fact that they force you to take 18, theres no point in lowmaning the hard fights to prove yourself. Also that was the game pre-abyssea too. Take off the glasses.

Relative point of view, HNM, Dynamis, Sky, Einherjar, ZNM and so on, never been hardcore. in fact, FFXI never been a hardcore game the way you state it, the only hardcore part of it was how long it take you to get your stuff done [hamster wheel].

If you take VW, then yes, you can apply your analogy and try to "low man it" if you like it hardcore, i guaranty you a great time, if is the challenge that you looking for. The only difference really is how you could solo Genbu for 12h long blocking every other member. Old content was always about cock blocking everyone, good thing SE removed that part of the game.

So is VW hardcore? Yes it is... due to Drop rate, and due to how hard that would be to low man. No matter how you look at it, i do not share your idea at all, specially when a group of 18 player with Empy + ochain + aegis + relic hit the floor. If that is not hardcore for you, well elaborate more what you think that should be "hardcore".

[Kimble]

Relative point of view, HNM, Dynamis, Sky, Einherjar, ZNM and so on, never been hardcore. in fact, FFXI never been a hardcore game the way you state it, the only hardcore part of it was how long it take you to get your stuff done [hamster wheel].

If you take VW, then yes, you can apply your analogy and try to "low man it" if you like it hardcore, i guaranty you a great time, if is the challenge that you looking for. The only difference really is how you could solo Genbu for 12h long blocking every other member. Old content was always about cock blocking everyone, good thing SE removed that part of the game.

So is VW hardcore? Yes it is... due to Drop rate, and due to how hard that would be to low man. No matter how you look at it, i do not share your idea at all, specially when a group of 18 player with Empy + ochain + aegis + relic hit the floor. If that is not hardcore for you, well elaborate more what you think that should be "hardcore".

Quiet a few higher tier VWNMs have already been soloed or low manned. The only problem is that not capping lights generally makes doing that a waste of time.

[Runespider]

Quiet a few higher tier VWNMs have already been soloed or low manned. The only problem is that not capping lights generally makes doing that a waste of time.

Yeah better to take 18 people, cap out all the lights and have a fair chance at a drop.. oh wait.. :p

[Kitkat]

Been at this since NA release and I still have fun on occasions, but I also still end up standing in mh hours on end watching my moogle spin round and round and round and...ooh dizzy. Anyway, the biggest problem i see with VWNM they already said isn't going to be fixed or really adjusted, which really needs to be. Other than that I do enjoy the fights themselves as it isn't too easy, nor is it over the top hard. I still wouldn't mind seeing the drop rate of certain items adjusted a little higher than it is.

I'm still interested in seeing what changes to Nyzul/Salvage/Einherjar are coming up as well as seeing what this "Last stand" battle field is all about. I would really like it is SE would listen more to the players about certain issues, not all, that are either antiquated since 75 cap, the obvious "more chances at loot means better drop distribution" theory needs to be relooked at (so people stop getting multiples of rare/ex while others get none at all), and fix some jobs that have become unbalanced with the rest (AKA become underpowered or lack any utilization in current content due to immunities). These are some of the biggest issues I can think of offhand, but SE seems to not even respond to or give hope that a change is coming that will fix/adjust any of this.

I think the only thing that would possible stop me from playing at this point is either I can't afford to play anymore, or someone hacked my account and stole it. The reason for this isn't because of the changes to the game though, so much as the people I play it with.

[Izzybella]

"Last Stand" battlefield PVP full time FTW :D

[Ravenmore]

Relative point of view, HNM, Dynamis, Sky, Einherjar, ZNM and so on, never been hardcore. in fact, FFXI never been a hardcore game the way you state it, the only hardcore part of it was how long it take you to get your stuff done [hamster wheel].

If you take VW, then yes, you can apply your analogy and try to "low man it" if you like it hardcore, i guaranty you a great time, if is the challenge that you looking for. The only difference really is how you could solo Genbu for 12h long blocking every other member. Old content was always about cock blocking everyone, good thing SE removed that part of the game.

So is VW hardcore? Yes it is... due to Drop rate, and due to how hard that would be to low man. No matter how you look at it, i do not share your idea at all, specially when a group of 18 player with Empy + ochain + aegis + relic hit the floor. If that is not hardcore for you, well elaborate more what you think that should be "hardcore".

6 maning gods and omega/utma was there to prove how good you were when a single mistake would wipe your group. In a 18 man fight a single mistake could be over looked if even noticed. Anyone could win a fight if you could keep throwing bodys at it not everyone could kill a mob with 6 people. Now what you have is doing a fight over and over with little risk and it becoming a boring grind. There is a balance between time sink and completion and Tanaka and his kind have no idea how to get there.

When it becomes do we have the right jobs to get all the lights some might have a chance at getting gear and not do we have the right PEOPLE to get the win the game is no longer interesting. When PUGs are doing the fights and winning with just who ever walks up or WoE mess something is wrong with the game. I willing to bet that all the VWNM could be beaten with a well balanced group with players that can listen and work together but what reason do they have to do it.