This is not what we meant when we were talking about bullet prices...

[Capn]

I get it, Rng is the king in ranged DD. We all understand this... But seriously?

Orichalcum Bullet [Ammo] All Races
DPS: 2225 DMG:89 Delay:240 "Magic Atk. Bonus"+2
LV 97 RNG COR

Orichalcum ingot x12 price is in the 400-500k range...


Dweomer Bullet 78 [Ammo] All Races
DPS: 2250 DMG:90 Delay:240
LV 78 RNG

Dweomer ingot x12 price is in the 50-60k range.

So, are we to be stuck with steel bullets and loads of novelty Quick Draw bullets all the way to 99? :confused:

Please please please stop ignoring the plea... Aftermath is pointless without decent affordable ammo beyond a level 66 bullet...

(Steel Bullet
[Ammo] All Races
DPS: 1750 DMG:70 Delay:240
LV 66 RNG COR)

[Greatguardian]

I can handle expensive. What I can't handle is lack of supply. I'm actually okay with this, though I am a bit miffed that RNG's new bullet is 40D higher.

[Mirabelle]

Expensive usually means limited supply esp for COR items. The majority of COR still /WHM and barely shoot. They are happy with bronze bullets for WF and 1 expensive bullet for QD. So no pressure for crafters to synth the item since the market is limited.

But looks like once I get a stack of orichalcum bullets I can start shooting off my supply of Oberon's I'd squirreled away.

[Greatguardian]

That depends entirely on the market. On my server at least, I'll eat enough of these bullets alone to keep demand reasonable. As bad as most Corsairs are, I'm sure there are at least a half dozen others with similar bullet usage.

If it comes down to it, crafting them with a couple friends could also be viable. I'm just glad to have the option rather than never seeing materials on the AH.

[Seha]

If this is a synergy recipe as it's easy to guess, 1 ingot should yield about 2-3 stacks of bullets, that doesn't sound expensive. This is a great Wildfire bullet(and QD if you don't have Omphalos).

[Mirabelle]

If this is a synergy recipe as it's easy to guess, 1 ingot should yield about 2-3 stacks of bullets, that doesn't sound expensive. This is a great Wildfire bullet(and QD if you don't have or shoot away yourOmphalos).

FTFY

Anyone know the recipe? Just orichalcum ingot and firesand?

[Mirabelle]

Still no stacks on our server. People selling individual bullets for 10k. 99 for 55k gil cost and crafters essentially selling 99 for 1 million gil. Nice gouging.
Fortunately a LS mate was able to synergize me a stack otherwise I'd be more indignant.

[Greatguardian]

There are stacks and pouches lined up on my server. Odin needs to get its act together.

[Mirabelle]

Odin was this way with Oberon's as well. I'd even get tells from crafters offering to sell me a single bullet for 15k back then.

Might have something to do with the fact that every JP COR on Odin is /WHM. They've never adopted the concept of firing bullets with this job.

[Greatguardian]

Every JP COR in the universe is a /WHM with max MP sets. It's pretty much a cultural thing. I don't get it either.

[SpankWustler]

Every JP COR in the universe is a /WHM with max MP sets. It's pretty much a cultural thing. I don't get it either.

The Shinto Kanamara Matsuri (かなまら祭り "Festival of the Steel Phallus"?) is held each spring at the Kanayama shrine (金山神社)in Kawasaki, Japan. The exact dates vary: the main festivities fall on the first Sunday in April. The penis, as the central theme of the event--is reflected in illustrations, candy, carved vegetables, decorations, and a mikoshi parade. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanamara_Matsuri)

The mikoshi parade bit is really amazing and makes more sense to me than "Sub White Mage for ALL THE THINGS!"

On Phoenix, stacks are selling for 50,000 each and there's a stack of pouches up for sale already. So availability is pretty good thus far, and I can only assume price will go down once the bullets aren't so shiny and new.

[Greatguardian]

Supposedly it has something to do with being supportive of their mages. Like how you see so many JP DDs subbing Ninja, DNCs focusing on waltzes, etc.

I pretty much avoided the crap out of JP-led merits at 75 because they would always get mad at me for subbing WAR and taking damage instead of WHM and curing.

[Thunderlips]

Supposedly it has something to do with being supportive of their mages. Like how you see so many JP DDs subbing Ninja, DNCs focusing on waltzes, etc.

I pretty much avoided the crap out of JP-led merits at 75 because they would always get mad at me for subbing WAR and taking damage instead of WHM and curing.

I am guessing its because they see Cor as Brd 2.0 and nothing more than that.

[Silvers]

I'm pissed about the bullet dmg, even at this level THF has access to a bullet with better dmg @Lv73 with Cannon Shells than COR... We're up to lv99 and COR has still yet to break beyond 75 ammo wise regaurding dmg.

[Mirabelle]

On Phoenix, stacks are selling for 50,000 each and there's a stack of pouches up for sale already. So availability is pretty good thus far, and I can only assume price will go down once the bullets aren't so shiny and new.

I doubt the price will drop if orichalcum ingots continue to hang out around 50k.

This is the big problem with ammo. Even with people not trying to gouge ranged attackers the price of ingredients is getting crazy and the availability is nothing great.

I'm looking at abandoning RNG entirely. Or at least until I seriously decide to level alchemy, GS and synergy. Adaman bullets are 100k a stack. Totally unacceptable SE, shame on you.

[Greatguardian]

Wait what?

I'm sorry, this is Corsair we're talking about. If you're not willing to drop 50k/stack on wtfamazing bullets, you should probably consider leveling a less expensive job. Like maybe Ranger.

[Concerned4FFxi]

Will this affect the price of salvage gear and once the new salvage gear updates hit won't that also affect the cost/price of these? AKA, going up!

[Mirabelle]

I'm sorry, this is Corsair we're talking about. If you're not willing to drop 50k/stack on wtfamazing bullets, you should probably consider leveling a less expensive job. Like maybe Ranger

50k/stack only bugs me a little. 100k/stack is ridiculous. 1 million gil/stack (current Odin prices of Orichalcum) is obscene. Personally I don't think bullets should cost more than 20-30k a stack given neither COR nor RNG are considered elite DD anymore. I've always accepted the price of admission is high to these jobs but its getting crazy again. That might satisfy those that get some kick from playing a rare job, but I like COR and RNG for their mechanics. Bullet cost is only detrimental.

I think SE really is trying to eliminate these ranged attacker jobs from the game.

[Greatguardian]

COR in Voidwatch is pretty much the strongest DD in the game, just saying.

Community Perspective is pretty silly when most of the community couldn't tie their own shoelaces with a manual and 5 wikis telling them how to do it, lol.

[Seha]

I don't see a big issue honestly. 1 Orichalcum ingot costs 20-25k on my server which can yield up to 3 stacks of bullets. AH price is still a bit high(50-60k/stack), but it's not that bad.
Unless you wanna shoot these for Last Stand as well.

[Deadvinta]

I'm looking at abandoning RNG entirely. Or at least until I seriously decide to level alchemy, GS and synergy. Adaman bullets are 100k a stack. Totally unacceptable SE, shame on you.

Those bullets don't look like arrows. How do you nock them onto your bow?

[Greatguardian]

I don't see a big issue honestly. 1 Orichalcum ingot costs 20-25k on my server which can yield up to 3 stacks of bullets. AH price is still a bit high(50-60k/stack), but it's not that bad.
Unless you wanna shoot these for Last Stand as well.

So they do HQ into multiple stacks then? I keep hearing people tell me that all the HQ tiers are just 1 stack, which is fairly annoying. I'll probably be having a friend craft me about 24 stacks of bullets this weekend so it would be awesome if there was confirmation of this.

[Mirabelle]

I don't see a big issue honestly. 1 Orichalcum ingot costs 20-25k on my server which can yield up to 3 stacks of bullets. AH price is still a bit high(50-60k/stack), but it's not that bad.
Unless you wanna shoot these for Last Stand as well.

Can I move to your server? On Odin Orichalcum ingots are 50k and no stacks or pouches have appeared because crafters are gouging by selling individual bullets for 10k a piece. That's a million gil/stack.

And for COR, they are the highest damaging bullet both for WF and Last Stand. So in an ideal world, a COR would use these full time. But SE pulls another Oberon's despite the myraids of complaints about those bullets.

[Greatguardian]

I've said it once and I'll say it again for emphasis:

The problem with Oberon's was the fact that Phrygian Ore only dropped from Campaign Union chests. It was not the inate price of the bullets, but the supply and artificial price inflation caused by an iron grip on that supply.

Unless Orichalcum suddenly becomes rare, there really shouldn't be an issue populating the AH's with it resulting in a solid price stabilization of around 40k-50k/bullet stack depending on whether or not they HQ into multiples. If they don't, 50-60/stack is more likely.

And yes, Odin really just sucks and I suggest seeking out a crafter personally and working with them to get your supply if the AH won't populate.

[Afania]

COR in Voidwatch is pretty much the strongest DD in the game, just saying.

Community Perspective is pretty silly when most of the community couldn't tie their own shoelaces with a manual and 5 wikis telling them how to do it, lol.

Strongest DD? That's totally biased. Ukko average 2~4k+ oh Pil(some even claim to spike 5k), SAM new WS average 2k+ on Kaggen, all of them has same TP buff as COR if in DD pt so they WS just as many. You don't even need to get out of AoE range nowadays since pt proc so fast that many VWNM like Pil/Qilin pretty much die in 5~10 min with WAR full time engage it. Even RNG has higher AGI overall for WF, let alone access to better physical WS and /ra DPS.

I'm sorry but you're paying 100k a stack of bullet and still not the strongest just saying, when WAR SAM do more without spending any money. And I don't think it's reasonable. If you enjoy spending money go ahead, but I believe most us don't.
And it has nothing to do with being cheap and such, we're just asking reasonable prices and that's it.

[Greatguardian]

On paper? No. In practice? Yes.

An aggressive Corsair can beat out a Mnk/War/Sam who are stuck in melee range and have to deal with proc WS when they come up. There's a reason I said "In Voidwatch". There are quite a few factors there that inhibit standard DDs, from Fanatics requirements to proc weapons/WS and beyond. Corsair is unfettered by these limitations, as any good VW group will have a Ranger there to cover Marksman/Archery procs anyways. Even when these are nullified by easy procs/White proc/etc, Corsair can easily keep up with melee DDs in a zerg scenario.

RA DPS is also unnecessary as you're almost always going to be WS'ing immediately back to back with Quick Draw, which adds a good deal to Corsair's damage total on its own. I'm not sure what better WS Ranger has access to, considering Last Stand is usable by Thief for crying out loud, and handily destroys all other physical Marksmanship WS. Or do you mean Jishnu's Radiance? I'd be interested in seeing how that compares to Last Stand outside Abyssea.

When I manage to place less than 3rd place in the Voidwatch parse on Corsair, I'll concede defeat. Hasn't happened yet, though.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind paying less money. A penny saved, etc. However, I feel like our ammunition issues were addressed with this update. Supply is fine, that ensures a stable market at a reasonable price. Corsair is expensive to play. Warrior is free. So what? Let anyone too cheap to handle 50k/stack bullets go play Warrior. They'd hardly be playing this job well if so little money became a problem.

And just for good measure, Ukko's does not "average" 2k-4k on Pil any more than Saevel's Chant du Cygne averages 2k on Pil - which is to say, fulltiming temps that last 30 seconds (Champion's) doesn't happen. 2k-2.5k is a pretty solid average for Ukko's.

[Afania]

On paper? No. In practice? Yes.

An aggressive Corsair can beat out a Mnk/War/Sam who are stuck in melee range and have to deal with proc WS when they come up. There's a reason I said "In Voidwatch". There are quite a few factors there that inhibit standard DDs, from Fanatics requirements to proc weapons/WS and beyond. Corsair is unfettered by these limitations, as any good VW group will have a Ranger there to cover Marksman/Archery procs anyways. Even when these are nullified by easy procs/White proc/etc, Corsair can easily keep up with melee DDs in a zerg scenario.

RA DPS is also unnecessary as you're almost always going to be WS'ing immediately back to back with Quick Draw, which adds a good deal to Corsair's damage total on its own. I'm not sure what better WS Ranger has access to, considering Last Stand is usable by Thief for crying out loud, and handily destroys all other physical Marksmanship WS. Or do you mean Jishnu's Radiance? I'd be interested in seeing how that compares to Last Stand outside Abyssea.

When I manage to place less than 3rd place in the Voidwatch parse on Corsair, I'll concede defeat. Hasn't happened yet, though.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind paying less money. A penny saved, etc. However, I feel like our ammunition issues were addressed with this update. Supply is fine, that ensures a stable market at a reasonable price. Corsair is expensive to play. Warrior is free. So what? Let anyone too cheap to handle 50k/stack bullets go play Warrior. They'd hardly be playing this job well if so little money became a problem.

And just for good measure, Ukko's does not "average" 2k-4k on Pil any more than Saevel's Chant du Cygne averages 2k on Pil - which is to say, fulltiming temps that last 30 seconds (Champion's) doesn't happen. 2k-2.5k is a pretty solid average for Ukko's.

I've seen Ukko done over 2.5k nearly every WS and spike 4.8k on Pil, but I didn't parse, only took SS. So nothing to prove it really.

WAR usually ended up tanking anyways, if the pt proc fast enough WAR can totally just stay alive. Some easier NM like Qilin nowadays are nothing but WAR's one man show, everyone's really just there to proc for WAR to deal more dmg and last longer. Yes melees needs stuff like fanatic, but a well origanized VW pt can proc really really fast and often enough to sustain a WAR full time in the front line. I haven't got a chance to see new GK WS in action though, it may be just as strong.

The arguement that "DDs needs to proc" can be used on COR itself, even if you have RNG, doesn't mean you shouldn't help proc. COR can still proc gun/sword/dagger WS, fat chances are you may not cover them all considering ppl don't use THF or DNC a lot. The faster you can get proc done, the more time other DDs can start to do dmg too. You have to look at the entier pt killing speed.

Oh the other hand if you're not doing proc only doing dmg, while other DDs actually sacrifice their dmg for proc, isn't that a waste of entier pt dmg too? You can't really argue that COR is better DD than other DDs just because you let other ppl do the proc job, then tell about how you parse No.1 because other ppl were busy doing proc while you were not.

RNG certainly has higher dmg overall if both jobs getting same buff. Coronach is static 80 CE 240 VE per WS, they can do over 100 WS before capping hate and eat dirt. If they need high dmg spike WS for blitz zerg or least bit of HP etc, they also have better dmg bullet for Last Stand. If both using Wildfire, RNG has slightly more AGI from gears and stats, which may make up the fire shot bonus(alone with higher /ra DPS and JAs) considering fire shot is 40~45 sec recast time.

And no you can't WS back to back due to QD recast time, sometimes you have to deal with rebuffing/bust/bad number buffs and such also. Even if you do managed to WS back to back with JAs and what not, you still cap hate much faster than relic RNG. You mentioned you die easily in VW on the forum before no? Combining with those factors, I think saying COR is "strongest DD in VW" is pretty biased if you only based on your parse result. Parse result never really mean anything when it totally depend on the situations. I can go find a parse result of WAR parse No.1, or SAM parse No.1 in VW as well then tell you WAR or SAM is strongest DD, but that's like children arguing who's strongest character in Street Fighter.

[Afania]

My point is, saying X job is strongest based on parse result is pretty biased, considering sometimes parse result can make ppl blind and not doing what benefits the pt the most. If you're the one parsing, you usually may ended up parsing higher because other ppl isn't focusing on dmg. And you may be doing something that's not most beneficial just to squeeze out some extra dmg. Not trying for proc unless it's HQ, and such. I remember long time ago when I did Einherjar with a LS at 80(or 85? can't remember) cap, a WAR loves to fell cleave mobs when ppl pulled them and mages slept them, just so that he can parse higher with AoE dmg. In his eyes it's probably not a big deal to AoE and wake all the mobs up, since we didn't wipe and mages can sleep them again, but IMO that's totally epeen selfish move just for his personal gratification. Did he get to prove that WAR is best DD in Ein or he is best player? Not at all, just proves how parse result can make ppl blind and made himself look bad.

[Seha]

that's like children arguing who's strongest character in Street Fighter.
Akuma obviously.

[cidbahamut]

Akuma obviously.

More likely it would start with an argument over which Street Fighter you're playing.

[Greatguardian]

I'm never the one parsing, and I hardly need a lecture on sampling bias and the inherent flaws of parsing as a measure of potential results. Would you prefer top 5 DD in the game in Voidwatch as a whole, but strongest DD on physical resistant Voidwatch mobs? I would be happy to amend my statement if it would help.

The point was someone was coming in here and complaining about bullets while saying that COR isn't considered a strong/elite DD any more. This is a complete joke, as Wildfire completely destroys many Voidwatch monsters - many of whom have physical resistance or PDT. In terms of raw damage on a neutral target, Corsair will not be the best, but who sits around spamming T1, T2, or T4 Jeuno anyways?

One of the new super-T6s has a massive PDT shield of up to 90% that completely rapes all melee DDs, and Botulus Rex is just an asshole who is most easily destroyed by throwing as many Wildfires on it as possible. Corsair excels in Voidwatch because Corsair has something that no other DD in the game has (aside from Ranger, obviously), and that is a legitimately powerful magic WS. Pil is an above average VW mob, but defensively he's nothing special at all. Qilin is even weaker defensively, as he's just a higher level Kirin clone. Where Corsair shines, and where it will continue to shine, are situations where it is able to spam Weaponskills/Skillchains and Quick Draw like a DD while doing Magical damage at a range like a mage.

Unless of course you think Warriors, Samurais, and Monks are going to outparse a Corsair on a monster with a -90% PDT shield.

[Afania]

I'm never the one parsing, and I hardly need a lecture on sampling bias and the inherent flaws of parsing as a measure of potential results. Would you prefer top 5 DD in the game in Voidwatch as a whole, but strongest DD on physical resistant Voidwatch mobs? I would be happy to amend my statement if it would help.

The point was someone was coming in here and complaining about bullets while saying that COR isn't considered a strong/elite DD any more. This is a complete joke, as Wildfire completely destroys many Voidwatch monsters - many of whom have physical resistance or PDT. In terms of raw damage on a neutral target, Corsair will not be the best, but who sits around spamming T1, T2, or T4 Jeuno anyways?

One of the new super-T6s has a massive PDT shield of up to 90% that completely rapes all melee DDs, and Botulus Rex is just an asshole who is most easily destroyed by throwing as many Wildfires on it as possible. Corsair excels in Voidwatch because Corsair has something that no other DD in the game has (aside from Ranger, obviously), and that is a legitimately powerful magic WS. Pil is an above average VW mob, but defensively he's nothing special at all. Qilin is even weaker defensively, as he's just a higher level Kirin clone. Where Corsair shines, and where it will continue to shine, are situations where it is able to spam Weaponskills/Skillchains and Quick Draw like a DD while doing Magical damage at a range like a mage.

Unless of course you think Warriors, Samurais, and Monks are going to outparse a Corsair on a monster with a -90% PDT shield.

It won't, just like how WARs parse high on Qilin, COR parse high in situations strongly favors magical dmg. Everything is situational, saying x job is strongest DD in an event on forum before counting the mob difference/pt proc efficency/luck/indiviual skill and gear is just pretty controversatial.

I just did a Pil on melee job btw, pretty sure full time melee/engage on Pil is very possible if pt proc fast enough(I was on it entire time and hardly take dmg when it's proced most of the time and had temps most of the time)

[Greatguardian]

I'm sure it is. I also just said Pil was nothing special defensively. As long as you have Fanatic's or a stagger up, he goes down pretty quickly.

Corsair is able to deal respectable damage to every Voidwatch NM. No other job can claim that. It's consistent and offers potent party buffs. It's more versatile than any other VW DD, and is the only DD worth a damn on some monsters - most notably the ones most worth killing right now.

You really can't go wrong with Corsair. You just can't do it. Those were my criterion. When a job is capable of being a powerful DD on every Voidwatch NM, and one of the best DDs by miles on some of the most powerful Voidwatch NMs, yes I will generally consider it the best DD choice for Voidwatch.

I have never, and will never say that Corsair is the most powerful DD in the game outright. I don't do vacuum math. It's clear that Corsair is not capable of keeping up with the Big 3 in a fair fight. But who said the fight had to be fair? Voidwatch simply happens to consist of many NMs which appeal to Corsair's strengths.

[Mirabelle]

Well Some orichalcum pouches finally showed up on Odin at a charming 150k/pouch. I love this server. Clearly once I know what craft levels are needed its finally time to level synergy, GS and alchemy. This crap is ridiculous.

[Capn]

Basically, What Mirabelle already said as a counterpoint to Greatguardian... 50k a stack, sure I'd buy up 12 pouches and make it my WS macro bullet. 100k+ is not worth it...

[Greatguardian]

As already pointed out, that seems to be a server-specific problem and at that point I would highly recommend just buying the materials and finding a crafter to make the bullets for you.

[Seha]

As already pointed out, that seems to be a server-specific problem and at that point I would highly recommend just buying the materials and finding a crafter to make the bullets for you.
This.
They're 50k/stack on my server and I'm gonna use them for my Wildfires.

[Hayward]

Some people, I guess, are OK with highway robbery as long as they get to brag about being on top of the mountain.

I only play RNG and COR sparingly because I like shooting off ammo and can't afford to do so on a regular enough basis to even think about calling it a main job.

100,000/cache is simply outrageous by any standard. Then again, outrageous price setting has become the norm on Cerberus.

[Greatguardian]

Dare I ask what prices on this server are actually outrageous? Shit is dirt cheap on Cerberus.

[Creelo]

...I'm surprised this wasn't brought up, and I don't think that it was. Corsair is one of the strongest DD's in VW not just because of WF, but because of giving Save TP/Regain to not just themselves, but every other DD in their party. <_<

[Mirabelle]

...I'm surprised this wasn't brought up, and I don't think that it was. Corsair is one of the strongest DD's in VW not just because of WF, but because of giving Save TP/Regain to not just themselves, but every other DD in their party. <_<

Off topic to bullet prices, but this has been true since COR was introduced (with a blip in Abyssea times due to atma). If you add COR damage + the 10-20% it adds to the other DD's through buffs, COR has always been the premiere DD in the game. Back in Colibri days it was well known a BRD/COR/RDM/DDx3 was better than a BRD/RDM/DDx4 party.

But back in those Halcyon days I could craft steel bullets for 12k/pouch.

Admittedly ease of gil making has led to inflation in ammo prices but 100-150k/stack is particularly ludicrous. Fortunately I do know a synergist in my LS that can make the O. Bullets. But still not going to use them for Wildfire. Seriously going to look at levelling the crafts and synergy for this since likely this will be the endgame bullet for COR.

[Hayward]

Dare I ask what prices on this server are actually outrageous? Shit is dirt cheap on Cerberus.

Every BLM and WHM on Cerberus should smack you on the head with their staves for even asking this. I won't even insult your intelligence by listing the scrolls that are STILL being gouged.

[Greatguardian]

Every BLM and WHM on Cerberus should smack you on the head with their staves for even asking this. I won't even insult your intelligence by listing the scrolls that are STILL being gouged.

Join a pickup Voidwatch shout. We've made off with millions upon millions of gil easily in this one by spamming Ig-Alima. They usually require good gear and relics/Emps to get in though, so good luck.

Oh or just join/create a Voidwatch shell and spam them with friends. My linkshell made about 10-20 mil this past weekend on dozens of new armor pieces and scrolls fighting extremely easy mobs.

You can either keep the scrolls you get or sell the ones you don't want and buy the rest with the gil you made. It's pretty much a no-brainer.