New equipment, thoughts?

[Crimson_Slasher]

Well im on the way to do the limit break, but on the way i decided to check the new gear, and well some are very nice...then theres this...

Athos's Chapeau [Head] All Races
DEF:36 STR+8 "Magic Attack Bonus"+4 Enhances "Fast Cast" effect Haste+5% Set: Increases rate of critical hits
LV 98 MNK THF RNG NIN BLU COR PUP DNC

....Seriously? Well atleast i cant be TOO MAD cause they also added this;

Brego Helm [Head] All Races
DEF:32 STR+6 DEX+6 Haste+5% "Subtle Blow"+4
LV 97 WAR MNK RDM THF DRK BST BRD RNG SAM DRG DNC

For melee, that will do fine by me. Still in all a bit frustrating to see though, but i guess some actual armor looking gear is nice.

[cidbahamut]

They gave away our feather!

/RAGE

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I saw the Chapeau and thought....

Why am I paying SE, really!?

What's their excuse for this, RDM's can't wear Chapeau's.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Okay theres a tabbard that goes with that too which makes me sad, but on further review i have decided, they dont want rdm to have a good ws body other than auging a crimson/blood, or doing salvage for a morrigan's. Still, here are some noteworthy pieces. In whole, and my feedback on each.

Praeco Doublet [Body] All Races
DEF:50 INT+15 MND+15 CHR+15 Magic Accuracy+5 Song spellcasting time -10%
LV 97 WHM BLM RDM BRD SMN BLU PUP SCH

Another nice mage body, stacking even more of the precious INT/MND and Magic acc, all in all, not too bad, but doesnt beat the enhanced enfeebling on our Empyrean body +2.

Rubeus Gloves [Hands] All Races
DEF:30 Magic Accuracy+10 Enfeebling magic skill +15 Enmity-5 Set: Enhances "Fast Cast" effect
LV 97 WHM BLM RDM BRD SMN SCH

I wanna say, this set has my head turning in all honesty, i think this is part of one of the new nyzul, or limbus, or salvage sets. This provides yet another nice piece for enfeebles.

Rubeus Jacket [Body] All Races
DEF:55 MP+100 INT+13 MND+13 CHR+13 Magic Accuracy+10 Adds "Refresh" effect Set: Enhances "Fast Cast" effect
LV 99 WHM BLM RDM BRD SMN SCH

Again, another nice body, however, aside from the MP, and its refresh effect, its just like the other, and i think just doesnt make up for our enfeeble bonus on Estoqueur's Sayon +2

Brego Gloves
[Hands] All Races
DEF:26 STR+5 AGI+5 Accuracy+9 Haste+4%
LV 97 WAR MNK RDM THF DRK BST BRD RNG SAM DRG DNC

More haste, but with a twist this time, sporting some AGI and some STR, and best of all, Accuracy to make our tp gain that much smoother!

Rubeus Boots
Feet] All Races
DEF:30 Divine/Healing magic skill +10 Enhancing/Enfeebling magic skill +10 Elemental/Summoning magic skill +10 Set: Enhances "Fast Cast" effect
LV 96 WHM BLM RDM BRD SMN SCH

Another nice all in one skill piece, likely a wink in our direction at our "inventory woes" but not outshining any specific piece, all in all, i say, nice, but not too nice as theres better in almost any situation i personally need boots in.

Duelist's Tabard +2 [Body] All Races
DEF:59 MP+42 AGI+6 MND+6 Healing magic skill +15 Enhancing magic skill +15 Enhances "Fast Cast" effect
LV 90 RDM

An old favorite, but with a new twist, that 15 enhancing skill comes in and blows my socks off, for you buff up fans like me, this means we can now keep our potent fast cast, and stack more skill than even the voidwatch body offers!

Duelist's Gloves +2 [Hands] All Races
DEF:22 MP+32 INT+7 MND+7 Enhancing magic skill +18 "Magic Def. Bonus"+4
LV 90 RDM

Little more MDB, some higher enhancing, and a liiiiiittle bit more of the magey stats (INT/MND/MP). The shinies keep on coming!

Duelist's Tights +2 [Legs] All Races
DEF:43 MP+22 DEX+8 INT+8 Elemental magic skill +15 Enhances effect of "Spikes" spells
LV 90 RDM

These while nice, leave me a bit underwelmed, the dex is nice, and may make a splash in your CDC WS macro, but aside from that, these didnt age as well as i had hoped.

Duelist's Boots +2 [Feet] All Races
DEF:20 MP+21 INT+6 MND+6 Magic Accuracy+4 "Magic Atk. Bonus"+7
LV 90 RDM

JACKPOT! We get to have it all here, combining a rather decent Int boost, some Mnd, magic acc, and a whopping +7 MAB is just plain gravy, and slapping some MP on that too? Love it, love everything about it.

Thuellaic Ecu [Sub] All Races
DEF:30 Evasion+8 Haste+2%
LV 97 WAR WHM RDM THF PLD BST SAM

A shield, with haste, not bad but...eh... i think they could do better. Still not bad though if you are /mage and wanna pull out something sharp i suppose, and respectable defense, i believe this is a type 2 shield though.

Witful Belt [Waist] All Races
DEF:8 Enhances "Fast Cast" effect Haste+3% Occ. quickens spellcasting +3%
LV 96 WHM BLM RDM BRD SMN BLU SCH

Im initially dismissing this as its running 6 million on sylph here, but from what i can tell, you got yourself a specialized recast belt, however as a lot of mages will say. that quickcast is almost a curse at times. I guess, use at your own perril.


Brego Helm [Head] All Races
DEF:32 STR+6 DEX+6 Haste+5% "Subtle Blow"+4
LV 97 WAR MNK RDM THF DRK BST BRD RNG SAM DRG DNC

Its a zucheto style helm, but for once, im looking at my voyager helm and questioning if its in the top 3 for str based ws for rdm. The answer is yes, you get 3 more str and 2 more dex, some haste, and subtle blow. With this you may not have capped haste in all builds, but that means that your ws, should you choose to use it, will get that bit more pop, and benefit from a bit of subtle blow, and your next attack round after can begin a bit sooner even if you do macro out of it.

Tempered Cape [Back] All Races
DEF:9 Healing magic skill +4 "Cure" potency +4%
LV 97 WHM BLM RDM BRD SMN BLU PUP SCH

Didnt we already get this? No? Oh i see what they did there, they took the hp and exchanged it for 4 healing skill, not sure if 4 skill will make a big enough difference here...

Engulfer Cape [Back] All Races
DEF:10 MP+30 Occasionally absorbs magic damage taken
LV 99 WAR MNK RDM THF PLD DRK BST BRD RNG SAM NIN DRG BLU COR DNC

Alrighty, something different here, if you can get a lot of MDT- or MDB without your back slot, this has some promise.

Rubeus Spats [Legs] All Races
DEF:43 STR+10 INT+13 MND+13 Accuracy+10 Evasion+10 Haste+3% Set: Enhances "Fast Cast" effect
LV 98 WHM BLM RDM BRD SMN SCH

Once again, JACKPOT! Okay the run down here, we are packing a lot of STR, INT, and MND, Acc, some Eva, and haste thrown into the mix, if you ever wanted to kill someone with just your legs, these are the muscle-pants for you! Slap em on to enfeeble, to melee, perhaps to nuke? Any way you wanna slice it, all in all, love em.

Praeco Slacks [Legs] All Races
DEF:39 MP+20 "Cure" potency +4% "Cure" casting time -3% Enmity-8
LV 97 WHM BLM RDM BRD SMN BLU PUP SCH

Oh and hello to you! Another nice piece of the curing puzzle, this time presented in pants form. Im not gonna lie, whms will barely bat an eye at these, but with these, we nolonger need to dedicate addon clothes to curing (i think...) Math time!
23%(staff) 15%(Heka) 5% (serpentes) 4%(Cape) 4% (pants) 5% (earing) 3% (neck) Which totals out at... 59%, thats 9% play room (19 if using rescuer atma in abyssea) so with that you can say dial it back, drop the heka to a nefer, and forget about roundel and you will be rocking 49% cure potency!

Dhampyr Sword [Main] All Races
DPS: 1365 DMG:53 Delay:233 Additional effect: HP Drain
LV 99 RDM PLD BLU

Eh, kinda a toy really, unless the proc is 100% and/or potent, not really anything too groundbreaking, mostly filler, but i guess for some solo play if the effect is consistent, could be good to offhand.

Mana Ampulla [Ammo] All Races
MP+20 MND+3 MP recovered while healing +2
LV 97 WHM BLM RDM BRD SMN SCH

Kinda cool, but not groundbreaking.

Atar I [Main] All Races
DPS: 934 DMG:57 Delay:366
LV 99 WHM BLM RDM BRD SMN SCH 0
Atar II [Main] All Races
DPS: 934 DMG:57 Delay:366
LV 99 WHM BLM RDM BRD SMN SCH 0
Atar III [Main] All Races
DPS: 934 DMG:57 Delay:366
LV 99 WHM BLM RDM BRD SMN SCH

YOU WANTED MAGIAN STAFFS WITH DIFFERENT NAMES?! YOU. GOT. THEM. Now go collect multiple ifritite/ramuite/garutite/etc.

Sheltered Ring [Finger] All Races
Adds "Regen" effect Enhances effect of "Protect" and "Shell" spells cast on wearer
LV 96 All Jobs

Cool, but more or less a luxury item.

Lunette Ring [Finger] All Races
Latent effect: "Magic Defense Bonus"+7
LV 99 All Jobs

Likely an unreasonable latent.

Prosilio Belt [Waist] All Races
DEF:9 STR+9 Attack+25 "Double Attack"-5%
LV 98 All Jobs

KABOOM! Though with a double attack penalty, its a tough call, i think id still rock one, that or an ele-belt.

Windbuffet Belt [Waist] All Races
DEF:7 "Triple Attack"+2% "Quadruple Attack"+1%
LV 97 All Jobs

An option for you multi-swinging nuts, however, if you arent capping haste around this, may want to take your business elsewhere.

Artful Belt [Waist] All Races
DEF:10 DEX+9 AGI-7
LV 96 All Jobs

Good for CDC?

Artful Belt +1 [Waist] All Races
DEF:11 DEX+10
LV 96 All Jobs

Better for CDC.

Snowman Cap [Head] All Races
DEF:1 [Element: Fire]-12 [Element: Ice]+12 Enchantment: Costume
LV 1 All Jobs
<1/1 4/[00:60:0, 30]>

I cant tell you how many times ive needed to go undercover as a snowman to avoid detection from my enemies, this should serve you all well!

Stoicheion Medal [Neck] All Races
Magic Accuracy+2 "Magic Attack Bonus"+8 Elemental magic casting time -3%
LV 97 All Jobs

Nuking neck without dumb situational factors? Check.

Nefarious Collar [Neck] All Races
Critical hit rate +3% Magic critical hit rate +3% Increases magic critical hit damage
LV 99 All Jobs

Crit neck for evisceration/CDC, here it is!

Rancor Mantle [Back] All Races
DEF:15 Attack+17 "Tonberry's Grudge"
LV 98 All Jobs

Get angry! Angry with joy, for this stunning crit based back. Sporting the popular "Tonberry's Grudge" and a respectable 17 attack, this will give those crit ws a bit more consistency without losing much from swapping out from aethling mantle.

Elder's Grip [Sub] All Races
MP+30 Magic Accuracy+1 "Magic Attack Bonus"+1
LV 99 All Jobs

Nice all round utility grip. I can dig it, nukes, enfeebs, and mp. Not too much other than that.

Hasty Pinion
[Ammo] All Races
Haste+1% "Store TP"-5
LV 96 All Jobs

Not too sure what to say about this one, grab it if you need that bit more haste? But -5 store tp is a fairly steep cost...

Okay so i did leave some things out. New magian weapons have a new name, and ofcourse they have upgrades to the superweapons, aside from that i chose to omit the Sweven and Sweven+1 sets, because in my personal opinion, i dont see much merit in them, they have decent stats, but so many other sets coming out this update blow them away i didnt feel they needed mention, feel free to add comments to these pieces or any others i omitted ofcourse! Still would have liked a new ws body...

[Neisan_Quetz]

Pointing out some stuff from that list.



Rubeus Gloves [Hands] All Races
DEF:30 Magic Accuracy+10 Enfeebling magic skill +15 Enmity-5 Set: Enhances "Fast Cast" effect
LV 97 WHM BLM RDM BRD SMN SCH

I wanna say, this set has my head turning in all honesty, i think this is part of one of the new nyzul, or limbus, or salvage sets. This provides yet another nice piece for enfeebles.

Not sure why you would -inventory for this over Emp+2.




Duelist's Tights +2 [Legs] All Races
DEF:43 MP+22 DEX+8 INT+8 Elemental magic skill +15 Enhances effect of "Spikes" spells
LV 90 RDM

These while nice, leave me a bit underwelmed, the dex is nice, and may make a splash in your CDC WS macro, but aside from that, these didnt age as well as i had hoped.


Unless you're capping attack I wouldn't bother as it loses to Tumbler's.




Brego Helm [Head] All Races
DEF:32 STR+6 DEX+6 Haste+5% "Subtle Blow"+4
LV 97 WAR MNK RDM THF DRK BST BRD RNG SAM DRG DNC

Its a zucheto style helm, but for once, im looking at my voyager helm and questioning if its in the top 3 for str based ws for rdm. The answer is yes, you get 3 more str and 2 more dex, some haste, and subtle blow. With this you may not have capped haste in all builds, but that means that your ws, should you choose to use it, will get that bit more pop, and benefit from a bit of subtle blow, and your next attack round after can begin a bit sooner even if you do macro out of it.


Behind Gnadbod's Helm... Might be easier to get I guess.




Rubeus Spats [Legs] All Races
DEF:43 STR+10 INT+13 MND+13 Accuracy+10 Evasion+10 Haste+3% Set: Enhances "Fast Cast" effect
LV 98 WHM BLM RDM BRD SMN SCH

Once again, JACKPOT! Okay the run down here, we are packing a lot of STR, INT, and MND, Acc, some Eva, and haste thrown into the mix, if you ever wanted to kill someone with just your legs, these are the muscle-pants for you! Slap em on to enfeeble, to melee, perhaps to nuke? Any way you wanna slice it, all in all, love em.


Definitely not for nuking... agreed on other points besides evasion (really doubt any of those jobs will be off the evasion floor on anything but fodder if that).




Praeco Slacks [Legs] All Races
DEF:39 MP+20 "Cure" potency +4% "Cure" casting time -3% Enmity-8
LV 97 WHM BLM RDM BRD SMN BLU PUP SCH

Oh and hello to you! Another nice piece of the curing puzzle, this time presented in pants form. Im not gonna lie, whms will barely bat an eye at these, but with these, we nolonger need to dedicate addon clothes to curing (i think...) Math time!
23%(staff) 15%(Heka) 5% (serpentes) 4%(Cape) 4% (pants) 5% (earing) 3% (neck) Which totals out at... 59%, thats 9% play room (19 if using rescuer atma in abyssea) so with that you can say dial it back, drop the heka to a nefer, and forget about roundel and you will be rocking 49% cure potency!


24% Staff + 5 Roundel + 10(12) Nefer + 5 Serpentes + 4 back is cap - Actually, drop the backpiece first. That's close/capped with HQ in fewest pieces I think barring Goliard Legs+5 (Staff/NQ NEfer/Goli/Serpentes/Roundel; I'm slightly biased because Whm uses Roundel with emp body anyway so I'd rather just use that than +inventory.)




Nefarious Collar [Neck] All Races
Critical hit rate +3% Magic critical hit rate +3% Increases magic critical hit damage
LV 99 All Jobs

Crit neck for evisceration/CDC, here it is!


Rancor Collar...?




Artful Belt +1 [Waist] All Races
DEF:11 DEX+10
LV 96 All Jobs

Better for CDC.



EDIT: This actually is better than Cuch unless attack and/or you're not benefitting from the DEX for capping dDEX.


Agreed a new WS body for CDC would be nice but what can you do.

[Crimson_Slasher]

As a not Neisan quetz, If you notice, this is only new gear, your input is valued but thats why no other (older gear) is listed, if that makes more sense. I wasnt listing them as a "Oh this is a must have" but rather a "these are some uses for the new gear i see!"

[Neisan_Quetz]

No problem, just noticing the useful items in that list is shorter in my opinion.

[saevel]

As a not Neisan quetz, If you notice, this is only new gear, your input is valued but thats why no other (older gear) is listed, if that makes more sense. I wasnt listing them as a "Oh this is a must have" but rather a "these are some uses for the new gear i see!"

Problem is the mage "new gear" is mostly worse then our "old" Emp +2 gear. It's inventory -1 for the most part. In the other thread I've already pulled out the items that would be worth getting. What's really surprising is that you didn't list the augmentations to the AF+2 gear, those might end up being significantly more important. The Pimp Hat +2 has Enhanced Slow II / Dia III to go with those stats. +Enfeebling skill isn't nearly as important as dMND or dINT for potency based enfeebles.

I was surprised that there is a +15 body now for enhancing magic, makes my Hyksos robe's +10 look smaller (the VWNM body virtually doesn't exist). Still mine was crafted so I'm not really losing gil.

For CDC it's a trade off between DEX and +attack, the "off the cuff" conversion is about 3~4 attack per point of DEX, but that's not absolute. Also we already have a +6% crit neck piece. That new one is more a TP piece because it lacks the +10% damage taken that's in the Rancor Collar.

[Crimson_Slasher]

I wasnt privy to the knowledge of the augments at the time, just the gear itself, hence my omission of it.

[tyrantsyn]

I'd have to say RDM now has some viable option's for decent to good melee gear. WE haven't seen anything set wise that would cater to a over all meleeing RDM. But at this point i'm happy to see SE has included us on the melee side of our jobs.

Thank you dev team ^^

[Doombringer]

there's definetly more options now, but it still feels sparse, and sorta patchworked. like saevel said about body pieces in the other thread.. he's still using an acp body.. I'M still using an assault jerkin?.... or i guess i have a pahluwahn body if i wanted to change my look but until somebody measures that crit bonus i have to assume it's nothing.

plus ws gear.. don't even get me started... why not alcides set? i get no loki's, but no alcides?

don't get me wrong, rancor collar, atheling mantle, goading belt, phasmida belt, zelus tiara, calmecac trouseras, tumbler trunks, and now rubeus spats.. things HAVE improved. i just feel that there are still a few blatently weak slots.

[ManaKing]

This stuff isn't the hardest to acquire either. You can get it yourself or grab it off the AH, at least some of it. The chest is still the illusive piece none of us can actually acquire yet. My best bet right now is TPing it a decently Aug'd Blood Scale Chest and then WS in an Antares Harness or ACP chest w/ Crit and Double attack.

I like the Helm, I would have been pissed if they had given away our pimp hat to others and didn't give us something in return.

[Doombringer]

that to, if you get lucky with augments crimson scale mail can make a respectable body piece, but i hate the randomness of that entire system. plus you need a nearly ideal augment for it to be legitimately "good"

edit: also, i think AJ would be better than antares for cdc unless you're capping attack, acp body is interesting though. sort of a spike vs. consistency thing.. but how much spike vs. how much consistency.. again prolly depends on where your att. lands vs the mobs def.

[Neisan_Quetz]

I typically have Antares winning actually... Best I could get was AJ being equal, at high accuracy low attack low dDex situation.

[saevel]

that to, if you get lucky with augments crimson scale mail can make a respectable body piece, but i hate the randomness of that entire system. plus you need a nearly ideal augment for it to be legitimately "good"

edit: also, i think AJ would be better than antares for cdc unless you're capping attack, acp body is interesting though. sort of a spike vs. consistency thing.. but how much spike vs. how much consistency.. again prolly depends on where your att. lands vs the mobs def.

Depends, I try to use the 3~4 attack vs 1 DEX rule. It's not always accurate, especially when the monster has ridiculous defence, but it's served me rather well. 9 Dex would require 20~30 attack to beat out on CDC. Remember it's not only WSC but also dDex and +acc, although honestly capped Acc during CDC is easy with our WS gear.

[Neisan_Quetz]

EDIT: 10 Dex belt actually does beat Cuch unless you're not benefitting from dDEX and/or attack is low. Going to change opinion of it.

[saevel]

EDIT: 10 Dex belt actually does beat Cuch unless you're not benefitting from dDEX and/or attack is low. Going to change opinion of it.

Dare I ask what defense value your plotting all this against. Is it that same ridiculous 560 number that I've only seen Demons in Xarc and a few VWNMs have?

[Neisan_Quetz]

420 500 and 560 or so. Varies abit depending on other gear/food, they're pretty close. If it contributes to dDEX it beats cuch, tends to lag slightly otherwise.

It's an upgrade but not one I'd immediately prioritize.


EDIT: Dia 3 is assumed on as well, food varies depending on target.

[saevel]

420 500 and 560 or so. Varies abit depending on other gear/food, they're pretty close. If it contributes to dDEX it beats cuch, tends to lag slightly otherwise.

It's an upgrade but not one I'd immediately prioritize.


EDIT: Dia 3 is assumed on as well, food varies depending on target.

420~450 would be a high defense monster over 100. Monsters defense growth really isn't that high. Lv 80~85 mobs had 310~330 defense for example. Kirin at level 92 had something like 350. Other then PLD mobs or Kindred's you really don't see high defense. 500+ is getting into the ridiculously high defense, only special monsters or NMs have that, or have a buff that gives them that defense (Crabs / Turtles).

[Doombringer]

my thinking has sorta been that if my att is high enough that adding more att wouldn't help, i'm probably going to destroy that mob anyway. so i've definitely valued att a little higher than is probably normal, if for no reason other than saving inventory and macro slots.

but i dunno, what's a good benchmark to be at for attack in ws? assuming normal mobs in the low it to high vt range? (since again, if it's weaker than that i'm not to concerned with building for it) i DID finish my str shamshir+3, combined with my AJ it's not unthinkable that i might have higher than normal or maybe even higher than needed att..

[saevel]

my thinking has sorta been that if my att is high enough that adding more att wouldn't help, i'm probably going to destroy that mob anyway. so i've definitely valued att a little higher than is probably normal, if for no reason other than saving inventory and macro slots.

but i dunno, what's a good benchmark to be at for attack in ws? assuming normal mobs in the low it to high vt range? (since again, if it's weaker than that i'm not to concerned with building for it) i DID finish my str shamshir+3, combined with my AJ it's not unthinkable that i might have higher than normal or maybe even higher than needed att..

Assuming acc isn't an issue (that is a big IF) then I'd go with meat for ~600~700 attack (gear and sub dependent). If acc's an issue then go with pizza+1.

On a side note, been killing VT~IT tigers down in Kuftal and they have defense higher then expected. Definitely around 500~ish. Will be back down there to figure it out and get a new benchmark for attack.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Kirin is a Smn NM... 330-340 Defense at level 81 was Thf/Nin Mamool (Thf job and Mamool race have D rank Vit).

[saevel]

Kirin is a Smn NM... 330-340 Defense at level 81 was Thf/Nin Mamool (Thf job and Mamool race have D rank Vit).

Defense on monsters has next to nothing to do with VIT. It's based on whatever their template is defined as. Monsters don't wear gear, eat food and rarely have buffs on them (PLD / WHM / RDM notwithstanding).

Just like they don't have ridiculous attack, neither do they have ridiculous defense nor evasion.
And Kirin is not a SMN, he's a "monster", special stats and all. Player community has defined him as a SMN because he astral flows, otherwise we could just as easily of called him a BLM because he use's Stone V / Stonega IV / Quake. Or a MNK because he attacks with two hands. And so forth.

The whole point was to demonstrate how a lv 92 NM (not a regular monster) had low defense. Level 73 birds have 282 defense. Level 82 Birds had 327 defense. Notice they have +5 defense per level, their template has them at D rank defense. Thus a level 100 bird would have approx 417 defense. Now I know birds tend to be squishy, but their not ~that~ squishy that a monster of same level would have 100+ defense more then them unless SE programmed in defense bonus traits or defense scales differently past 100.

As our skill levels have changes past 76 I don't doubt that SE would of also changed how monster levels scaled. We now need to find lv 100 ~105 birds (only cause their values are very well known) to do /check testing on and figure out how it's changed.

[Greatguardian]

No, he is a SMN. Monsters all have jobs. They also have sub jobs. Please don't start that retarded Charitwo debate here because those of us who remember the fiasco are still damned tired of it.

Example: Crabs are PLD/PLD monsters. Yeah, they're allowed to do that. We aren't. It's kinda sad.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Did you really mention Greater Colibri which are Rdm/Rdm with E rank Race Vitality...

Step out of Tau please.

Nms can have multiple main/subs though, like Shadowhand in Campaign.

[saevel]

Did you really mention Greater Colibri which are Rdm/Rdm with E rank Race Vitality...

Step out of Tau please.

Nms can have multiple main/subs though, like Shadowhand in Campaign.


And if you read you'd see I was using them only for comparison because their stats are well known. I was comparing a lv 73 to a level 82 to a theoretical lv 100 bird to demonstrate defense growth. I said as much in the post, you just chose to ignore it.

Also VIT has next to nothing to do with defense. Watch

Assuming 300 defense prior to VIT and 80 VIT you get .. 340 defense.

Now super magic spell, lets increase it's VIT by 50% to 120. Yes 120 VIT, not even PLD's get that at 99 so this gotta be one hella tough monster, gotta have 500 defense right? 120/2 = +60 defense, 80/2 = +40 defense. So ... 360 defense.

WTF ... ohh noo ... not 500 ... what the hell it had like A rank VIT.

Yeah +VIT does next to nothing for defense. What you should really be looking for isn't it's VIT but it's racial defense rank. Which we happen to know is D (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Colibri). Studio Globi has most of these numbers if your inclined to read Japanese. The difference between A and D isn't very large. Crabs don't get their high defense from a high racial defense rank but from all the tiers of Defense Bonus they get. Racial ranks have a much greater impact on things like accuracy / evasion / attack / defense then job stats like STR / VIT / AGI / DEX.

So if your going to criticize a stat, at least get the right stat.

-=Edit=-

Here the formula for monster defense.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Defense

Monster's shouldn't be getting 500+ defense until post ~105 maybe.

[Neisan_Quetz]

I listed them as a comparison, you completely ignored everything else and tried to focus on the fact I mentioned vit.

Good try though.

EDIT: Going by the very page you linked, a 97 War/war rank D (didn't add defense bonus) defense mob has approx 420 defense... exactly what I used.

[saevel]

I listed them as a comparison, you completely ignored everything else and tried to focus on the fact I mentioned vit.

Good try though.

Here's your post,


Kirin is a Smn NM... 330-340 Defense at level 81 was Thf/Nin Mamool (Thf job and Mamool race have D rank Vit).

All I see there is you negating my mention of a 92 NM (Manitcore base) while listing it as a SMN and the Mamools.

What you didn't realize is that WAR/WAR is ... D rank Vit so those Mamools have the same or slightly higher VIT then a SMN. And Vit does next to nothing for Defense. You keep mentioning Vit like it somehow explains high / low defense, which it doesn't as I've demonstrated with my 80 (low VIT) to 120 (high VIT).

And then I corrected you by showing that it's the monsters racial defense rating that has the greatest effect.


Mob defense and evasion (2006-04-12)

Mob defense: [f(level,family defense rank) + 8 + (VIT/2) + job traits] * family multiplier
Mob evasion: f(level,main job evasion skill rank) + (AGI/2) + job traits

Function f:

Rank Level 1-50 Level 51+
A 6+[(Lv-1)*3.0] 153+[(Lv-50)*5.0]?
B 5+[(Lv-1)*2.9] 147+[(Lv-50)*4.9]?
C 5+[(Lv-1)*2.8] 142+[(Lv-50)*4.8]
D 4+[(Lv-1)*2.7] 136+[(Lv-50)*4.7]?
E 4+[(Lv-1)*2.5] 126+[(Lv-50)*4.5]

Verifying these formulas, edited previous version to reflect current state of verification

Levels below 1 use the Level 1 calculation.
Most mob families have a defense rank of C.
Crawlers have a defense rank of E.
Roc have a defense rank of B.

Most mob families have a defense multiplier of 1.0.
Bugards, Buffalo and Antlions have a multiplier of ~1.2 (1 + 51/256, to be exact)


As you can see the family defense rank outweighs the job VIT rank pretty handily. A Roc SMN would have more defense then a Crawler PLD (before cocoon).

Most monsters are racial defense C, so a level 100 monster with racial defense C would have a base defense of.

142+[(Lv-50)*4.8] Then +8 + VIT/2 + job trait.

Or 390, then add VIT/2.

Here's a good table to use for figuring out VIT.


monster VIT = fVITRace(77, C) + fVITMJob(77, D) + fVITSJob(38, D)
= [4+(Lv-1)*0.40] + 3+(Lv-1)*0.35 + 3+(Lv-1)*0.35
= [4+(77-1)*0.40] + 3+(77-1)*0.35 + 3+(38-1)*0.35
= 34 + 29 + 15 = 78 VIT


the fVITRace, fVITMJob, fVITSJob use the same formula. The formula is as follow for each stat rank :

A 5+(Lv-1)*0.50
B 4+(Lv-1)*0.45
C 4+(Lv-1)*0.40
D 3+(Lv-1)*0.35
E 3+(Lv-1)*0.30
F 2+(Lv-1)*0.25
G 2+(Lv-1)*0.20


Lv 100 Rank D monster should have (D+D+D) or 111 VIT, +55 defense.

So 445 defense or so. Hence I recommended using ~450 as the minimum attack to be thinking about (For EM~T monster at 99).

Finding a tiger that was VT to a level 95 (102 most likely) that had ~500 defense made me pause. I shouldn't be seeing that high a defense until 110 at least.

[Neisan_Quetz]

I mentioned both... not sure what you're trying to get at other than to nitpick.

Already mentioned in last post, 97 War/War D rank vit came up to ~420 defense, and that's what I used as lowest defense number.

The 560 assumed a high defense NM level 107ish yes.

[saevel]

I mentioned both... not sure what you're trying to get at other than to nitpick.

Already mentioned in last post, 97 War/War D rank vit came up to ~420 defense, and that's what I used as lowest defense number.

The 560 assumed a high defense NM level 107ish yes.

Very few of those, NM's tend to follow family racial stats, unless SE decides to play Rule 0 card.

And you had no idea about the monster defense rank formula, or you'd of quoted Kirin's manticore racial defense rank instead of the must less significant SMN VIT rank.

Now your going to back calculated out the required level / stats for that ridiculous 560 you used.

The real reason you used it was to deliberately put the RDM under 1.0 cRatio while putting the BLU/WAR over that. Under 1.0 your damage will quickly turn to sh!t, it's a very bad place to be at. It was an invented scenario to try to say "RDM is a terrible DD" and I saw right through it.

Almost universally monsters will have Rank C defense and Rank D VIT, this includes NMs. What SE will do is give the NM defense bonus ranks or add a few levels to make it harder. Or just add some form of -DT. Their lazy that way.

[saevel]

I used Dia 3 on all target defense values...

I didn't even fucking mention Blu/war. At all. Seriously, shut the fuck up.

Yes you did in the last thread where you were tossing out that 560 and I called your BS on it.

Abyssea NM's are significantly different as SE boosted the hell out of their base stats because well, it's abyssea. Are we adding RR type DEX and crit bonus's now? How about some Apoc TA tossed in just for giggles. And not all Abyssea NM's even have those boosted stats, heck the monsters don't have them either.

So yes your pulling numbers our your neither regions in order to prove a point that has an invalid premise.

[saevel]

Ok back on topic.

@Doom
For the time being you should pack in as much attack as possible. At 95 most of the things we fought where level ~100 or so. But now that we've hit 99, there will be new content created meaning new T~VT ash & trash we'll have to plow through and new NMs. I'd start planning around fighting monsters 104~106. Thankfully our sword / dagger base skills have scaled better then they did back at 60~75 and the difference between A+ and B isn't very large. This means ultimately it comes down to gear, food and buffs. Gear we're just gonna have to suck it up, SE has pretty much left us in a position where we're gonna be married to Pizza+1 or Bison Steak for the foreseeable future. Get as much +enhancing magic as you can get your grubby hands on, Gain-STR is your friend and Temper has great scaling (until we hit the cap that we're not sure of yet). Enspells wont' scale much higher then ~30, but assuming you use the right element you can get solid accuracy on them, resists shouldn't be more then 5~10%. Also seeing as Req has pretty much failed us completely, CDC is a must. I would stick with the STR shamshir, we need that fSTR and attack more then anything. I'd like to see what SE's "enhances Dia III" effect is and what they do with Tier II merits. They could fix it and make it work with Sab or make it stronger, but the realist in me thinks they'll do nothing of importance.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Guys, really, lets focus on gear, gear we can, or cant use! That being said, anyone have a new fully upgrades shamshir (cant recall the name) already? Did the in game skin change or is it still the same?

[saevel]

Haven't done the Shamshir yet, just finished leveling BLU and RDM to 99, need to cap enhancing magic *groan*. I figure it's a name change only, don't think SE can be assed to actually change the model. The stats didn't go up much from what was on the test server, but the DMG rating is improved. Still makes a nice off hand weapon.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Can check once I'm done partying.

Looking over list it looks like Enhancing Sword model.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Yeah i was thinking the same, i capped my enhancing and sword already, working on drk weapon skilling now.

[ManaKing]

that to, if you get lucky with augments crimson scale mail can make a respectable body piece, but i hate the randomness of that entire system. plus you need a nearly ideal augment for it to be legitimately "good"

edit: also, i think AJ would be better than antares for cdc unless you're capping attack, acp body is interesting though. sort of a spike vs. consistency thing.. but how much spike vs. how much consistency.. again prolly depends on where your att. lands vs the mobs def.

I have both. I like the accuracy since I play an Elvaan. The AJ was what I used for awhile, but I like the consistency of the Antares. I would always rather have enough accuracy in my gear and eat food for damage because going over accuracy doesn't actually get us any more damage.

Also, side boob. I mean it's the obvious choice. The best stuff for a RDM should be red right? JK. I honestly just think it is better because I can't stand missing.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Okay got 15 ifritite for my first sword and well, it does indeed change to a "gold sword" or enhancing Sword model, so question answered! Elemental weapons change forms at final stage!

[saevel]

Okay got 15 ifritite for my first sword and well, it does indeed change to a "gold sword" or enhancing Sword model, so question answered! Elemental weapons change forms at final stage!

Thanks. I always enjoyed that particular model.

All we need now is for our enspells to make our weapons glow ^.^

[ManaKing]

Thanks. I always enjoyed that particular model.

All we need now is for our enspells to do real damage ^.^

Oh man, that one was too easy.

I like the swords they chose. I still haven't gotten my Khanda past the Silver Mirrors, much less whatever new thing they added that I'm sure drops from new VW. I hope we got a model upgrade for that as well. Double Attack Sword is my offhand right now and I can't complain about it. Still want an Oneiros Knife to see if it's worth it.

[saevel]

Oh man, that one was too easy.

I like the swords they chose. I still haven't gotten my Khanda past the Silver Mirrors, much less whatever new thing they added that I'm sure drops from new VW. I hope we got a model upgrade for that as well. Double Attack Sword is my offhand right now and I can't complain about it. Still want an Oneiros Knife to see if it's worth it.

For the reasons I showed above the +STR / Attack is still our best off hand weapon on anything bigger then us. Attack is really going to start kicking us in the nuts soon. I use my DA sword for when I'm killing little stuff that I don't need attack on.