New Jug Recipes

[Aldersyde]

I wasn't on the test server, so I'm not really sure what broth is what pet. All jugs are cooking recipes.

Wormy Broth: Little worm, shell bug. (Pretty sure this is frog) Recruit rank

Briny Broth: Hamsi, Mercanbaligi, Rhinochimera (Penguin?) Craftsman rank

Lucky Broth: Gelatin, Buffalo Meat, Abaia Artisan rank

Shadow Broth: Dragon Meat, Nopales, Agaricus Adept rank

Looks like shadow and lucky broth will be annoying/expensive to get. Abaia is a legendary fish which can only be caught with Ebisu or Lu Shangs (and can break Lu Shang's) in a pond in Jugner Forest (s). I knew I shouldn't have sold all the dragon meant I was getting in gold chests....

http://www.zam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=1323883356237532100

[xbobx]

And those will be the only two good jugs. looks looks liek bst is getting F' ucked again.

back to sheep

[Phogg]

Dragon meat? Really SE? Dear lord what the hell are you thinking? That's already a hard to come by item for cooks trying to cap their skill, now we need it for one of the two moderately useful jugs pets we get? Seriously. Ridiculous.

And two abaia have ever sold at the AH on phoenix. Brilliant idea!

[Mavrick]

Dragon meat? Really SE? Dear lord what the hell are you thinking? That's already a hard to come by item for cooks trying to cap their skill, now we need it for one of the two moderately useful jugs pets we get? Seriously. Ridiculous.

You've just been Balanced!

[Beeraga]

This is utterly ridiculous. Why on Earth did SE decide it was a good idea to create recipes with ingredients that are impossible to get?! What was even the point in wasting time coming up with new jug pets if no one will EVER be able to use them? WTF. Meanwhile they're going to nerf the abilities of the jug pets because they would have otherwise been 'overpowered'.

An Abaia? Sure. I'll bust out my Lu Shang's rod along with my 100 capped fishing skill and get right on it.

But, YAY! We get a frog that can do nothing!

>.>

:mad::mad::mad:

[xbobx]

Well at least they didnt lie about the hippogryph jug to be cheaper then the ladybug, because none will ever be sold lol.

[Aldersyde]

Here's hoping that some high level fisherman perceives a market for and will actually fish Abaia up. My concern is that Lucky Broth (which I assume is Hippogrpyh) will barely see the light of day . People will pay outrageous prices for lesser chigoes for Dippers and although I don't want another pet that's expensive, it's better to see them expensive than non-existent. The big issue with Abaia, is that its really not something the average player can just go out and farm up. it can only be caught by two rods, one being the equivalent of relic and one that is obtained through a tedious quest (or bought with 3-4 million gil). To top it off, according to the wiki, there is ONE spot where it can be fished up.

I honestly don't like coming here and just complaining, but what were they thinking (especially considering they nerfed hippogryph tp moves)?

What is this "balance" they keep spewing? I don't comprehend their definition.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

What is this abaia people speek of?

[Zhronne]

lol at the recipes xD
Can't stop laughing...

[Dreamin]

Last update we see SE think that they can push people to level Wood Working and Goldsmithing through "Logs and Ores". We see in this update, SE is try to push people to level Fishing (potentially hugh amount of money to be made) and Cooking through new pet jugs.

Nicely play, SE. Nicely play. You honestly really do not understands your player base at all.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Anyone know the new food recipe?

[Juilan]

I wasn't on the test server, so I'm not really sure what broth is what pet. All jugs are cooking recipes.

Lucky Broth: Gelatin, Buffalo Meat, Abaia Artisan rank

Shadow Broth: Dragon Meat, Nopales, Agaricus Adept rank

Looks like shadow and lucky broth will be annoying/expensive to get. Abaia is a legendary fish which can only be caught with Ebisu or Lu Shangs (and can break Lu Shang's) in a pond in Jugner Forest (s). I knew I shouldn't have sold all the dragon meant I was getting in gold chests....

http://www.zam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=1323883356237532100
I read this in the update log and just face palmed...
When I first read about the hippo I was like "wow something as functional as the lady bug but cheaper", guess I wad dead wrong, with the 500k stack on the siren AH... it better have a ready move that causes a high accuracy death (95% on mobs not Impossible to gauge). What were they thinking when they had these rare items be synths, guess we have two more cacti

[Dreamin]

And just image what your reaction would be if you accidentially pop that call beast macro with hippo jug on there seconds before the pt lead starts VW. Or I want to see the 1st picture of anyone using hippo in WoE...

cannot stop laughing...

[Echlin]

Wow, I get making the new pets "difficult" to get but wow. I think the development team missed the hoards of RMT fish bots. The turtle isn't terrible to make and would probably consider it a "balanced" recipe. But WTF with the hard leaning on fishing.

[Juilan]

i know someone who broke his lu shang twice on that fish... seriously SE?

[xbobx]

Right now the shadow broth is 100k for one up on ragnorok, bloated price but still.

[Limecat]

On the bright side, I've got 100 fishing and cooking. On the not-so-bright side, needs more reliable and/or faster dragon meat sources.

[Xilk]

pet food theta:

Cooking 79-80

Earth Crystal

San d'Orian Flour
Distilled Water
Puk Egg
Ruszor Meat (Sadly, yes)

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Ruszor Meat (Sadly, yes)I doubt they will, but with the previous update they already proved they can change it. Though they did "increase" the drop rate as well too.

[Sparthos]

Ruszor Meat is a common drop now, the recipe isn't that unreasonable.

[Shadax]

Came here hoping against hope the new recipes would be somewhat reasonable...

Leave here utterly depressed.

[Scribble]

Is the jug that requires the legendary fish at least a legendary jug?

As a service to the BST community, I will be more than happy to fish up(or attempt to since I haven't tried these yet) the Abaia fish if there are some of you on my server in need of jugs. I accept arms and legs as payment XD

[Xilk]

Is the jug that requires the legendary fish at least a legendary jug?

As a service to the BST community, I will be more than happy to fish up(or attempt to since I haven't tried these yet) the Abaia fish if there are some of you on my server in need of jugs. I accept arms and legs as payment XD

Do I really want to share my test finding w/ Falcorr here... ?

Falcorr appears to be the best dd pet we have. Fantod makes hits on the next round do 4x damage. Thats right, 4x.
And it IS next TURN. not just next hit. If triple attack procs after using fantod, it will be 4x damage for each of those 3 hits.

so w/ rr, ss, and apoc atma in misareux, I did crits up to 3k using fantod. or I might get 1.2k in a triple attack. IT is possible w/ atma, in abyssea to do 3k x3 hits when using fantod.. if you get all 7's at the slot machine. This was vs a normal mob.. so less damage on something more significant... but I think this alone should give some indicator of falcorr's potency.

Falcorr also makes cerby solo less expensive and tiamat solo possible. (does pretty good w/ the fire damage, falcorr does).
The triple attack rate appears higher than yuly. It is more distinctly noticeable, but I haven't measured it. The base str is slightly higher than yuly too.
yes, its a thf, yes it has treasure hunter, and unlike yuly enhanced movement speed. The only thing I'm not certain of is if the eva rate is as high as yuly. I don't know, I haven't tested it. Its a fair guess that the eva rate is quite good.

Falkirk has a really cool screenshot of using zoo hat between fantod and backheel for a 3.7k hit on a weapon up in sky.

So yes, they gave us one sweet pet in Faithful Falcorr.


(I should also mention that I copied that recipe verbatim from ffxiah.com. Sorry I didn't mention it before (tired late at night, annoyed I was actually responding to the person asking for it, but it was an actual legitimate question... anyway, the annoyed comment about ruszor meat wasn't actually mine.... )

[SpankWustler]

I had high hopes for Fantod after many moons of using Nursery Nazuna's Rage; I'm glad it actually delivers. Even without a critical hit or Triple Attack, I'd expect four times the damage of one melee hit to out-perform many Ready commands.

The price of Lucky Broth on Phoenix is hovering between 150,000 and 250,000 for a stack. If it swings back to 150,000-ish for the long term, that won't be too bad. If it stays at 250,000-ish a stack, that will suck very much.

[Granny]

oH, time to dust off the old ebisu, granny is about to be in the easy cash again!! lol

[Xilk]

Any treasure hunter noticed on Faithful Falcorr? with its TA I would think its a thief.

wow, that was answered 3 posts ago.

[Agetos]

wow, that was answered 3 posts ago.
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png

[Xilk]

So Agetos likes lazy forum posters? Why bother posting any other reply to someone who won't read the thread anyway?

[Coldbrand]

Do I really want to share my test finding w/ Falcorr here... ?

Falcorr appears to be the best dd pet we have. Fantod makes hits on the next round do 4x damage. Thats right, 4x.
And it IS next TURN. not just next hit. If triple attack procs after using fantod, it will be 4x damage for each of those 3 hits.

so w/ rr, ss, and apoc atma in misareux, I did crits up to 3k using fantod. or I might get 1.2k in a triple attack. IT is possible w/ atma, in abyssea to do 3k x3 hits when using fantod.. if you get all 7's at the slot machine. This was vs a normal mob.. so less damage on something more significant... but I think this alone should give some indicator of falcorr's potency.

Falcorr also makes cerby solo less expensive and tiamat solo possible. (does pretty good w/ the fire damage, falcorr does).
The triple attack rate appears higher than yuly. It is more distinctly noticeable, but I haven't measured it. The base str is slightly higher than yuly too.
yes, its a thf, yes it has treasure hunter, and unlike yuly enhanced movement speed. The only thing I'm not certain of is if the eva rate is as high as yuly. I don't know, I haven't tested it. Its a fair guess that the eva rate is quite good.

Falkirk has a really cool screenshot of using zoo hat between fantod and backheel for a 3.7k hit on a weapon up in sky.

So yes, they gave us one sweet pet in Faithful Falcorr.


(I should also mention that I copied that recipe verbatim from ffxiah.com. Sorry I didn't mention it before (tired late at night, annoyed I was actually responding to the person asking for it, but it was an actual legitimate question... anyway, the annoyed comment about ruszor meat wasn't actually mine.... )

You should delete your post before Tanaka smells your enjoyment with the game.

[LCofPandy]

I'm actually really upset with these recipes. I thought SE was trying to ease up on the gil we had to spend on jug pets not completely break the bank. I know it's not difficult to make gil these days, but an upcoming and new Bst will have trouble with getting these. Right now on Asura NN and GG are 2x their normal prices, Yuly jumped from about 80-90k to what is now 140k. I think it's a bit ridiculous, if this is going to be the new norm, let us ZONE with our pets just like Drg, Smn, and Pup it's not all that game breaking...

[Phogg]

Do I really want to share my test finding w/ Falcorr here... ?

Falcorr appears to be the best dd pet we have. Fantod makes hits on the next round do 4x damage. Thats right, 4x.
And it IS next TURN. not just next hit. If triple attack procs after using fantod, it will be 4x damage for each of those 3 hits.

so w/ rr, ss, and apoc atma in misareux, I did crits up to 3k using fantod. or I might get 1.2k in a triple attack. IT is possible w/ atma, in abyssea to do 3k x3 hits when using fantod.. if you get all 7's at the slot machine. This was vs a normal mob.. so less damage on something more significant... but I think this alone should give some indicator of falcorr's potency.

Falcorr also makes cerby solo less expensive and tiamat solo possible. (does pretty good w/ the fire damage, falcorr does).
The triple attack rate appears higher than yuly. It is more distinctly noticeable, but I haven't measured it. The base str is slightly higher than yuly too.
yes, its a thf, yes it has treasure hunter, and unlike yuly enhanced movement speed. The only thing I'm not certain of is if the eva rate is as high as yuly. I don't know, I haven't tested it. Its a fair guess that the eva rate is quite good.

Falkirk has a really cool screenshot of using zoo hat between fantod and backheel for a 3.7k hit on a weapon up in sky.

So yes, they gave us one sweet pet in Faithful Falcorr.


(I should also mention that I copied that recipe verbatim from ffxiah.com. Sorry I didn't mention it before (tired late at night, annoyed I was actually responding to the person asking for it, but it was an actual legitimate question... anyway, the annoyed comment about ruszor meat wasn't actually mine.... )

Who cares, I can do 3k dmg on thf every 40 seconds in abyssea and it costs me nothing. I've been the biggest BST proponent I know forever, but the job is officially dying on the vine. Take some time and repeat your tests on actual xp mobs outside abyssea. At 96 fantod it ~400 dmg on EM bats in Bostaunieux Oubliette. Yay. 16k per jug to do 350 dmg with a ready move? But I get TH! ><;

Even when you can use charm, its lack luster compared to ready. Using slime pets in the same zone and waiting 2 minutes for sic (for completely random moves) to be up again just made me want to revert to jug pets, which is clearly what SE wants. Its ridiculous. I can get on my WAR and drool over a dozen or so JA's. I get on my BST and I now have only two useful JA's, Call Beast and Ready. Yay. SE can die in a fire, they have absolutely killed this job aside from a bunch of hacks who now use it to farm dynamis currency. In any actual capacity, the job is useless. 50 dmg regular hits from jug pets on NMs, 250 DMG ready moves, way to go BST!

All the fun I had with BST up to 75 is just a distant memory now. It's been my favorite job for 8 years, and I now have no motivation to level it beyond 96. Thanks for your "balance" SE. Way to balance a job out of any realm of usefulness.

[Xilk]

... yada yada.... hate bst yada...

enjoy war and thf
They have forums too.

[Dreamin]

Who cares, I can do 3k dmg on thf every 40 seconds in abyssea and it costs me nothing. I've been the biggest BST proponent I know forever, but the job is officially dying on the vine. Take some time and repeat your tests on actual xp mobs outside abyssea. At 96 fantod it ~400 dmg on EM bats in Bostaunieux Oubliette. Yay. 16k per jug to do 350 dmg with a ready move? But I get TH! ><;

Even when you can use charm, its lack luster compared to ready. Using slime pets in the same zone and waiting 2 minutes for sic (for completely random moves) to be up again just made me want to revert to jug pets, which is clearly what SE wants. Its ridiculous. I can get on my WAR and drool over a dozen or so JA's. I get on my BST and I now have only two useful JA's, Call Beast and Ready. Yay. SE can die in a fire, they have absolutely killed this job aside from a bunch of hacks who now use it to farm dynamis currency. In any actual capacity, the job is useless. 50 dmg regular hits from jug pets on NMs, 250 DMG ready moves, way to go BST!

All the fun I had with BST up to 75 is just a distant memory now. It's been my favorite job for 8 years, and I now have no motivation to level it beyond 96. Thanks for your "balance" SE. Way to balance a job out of any realm of usefulness.

1st time I retired my BST was when that timer came out (I switched and leveled SMN). I kept up my BST to 95 for the hope that SE will wake up some day and fixed the job. But sadly, it doesn't look too good.

BST used to be just pure fun. I really miss the old days with bst burning pt.

[Mavrick]

Yeah, I really don't understand the rave over the Hippo myself. People are drooling over the damage the jug is doing over mobs.... 15~25 levels lower than the pet. I suppose if you only stick to EP level content you'd be perfectly fine with the performance of BST jugs in general. Mass farming "Easy Prey" is only thing BST really has going for it so I cannot really complain about people getting riled up over an otherwise useless ability.

[ShadowHeart]

heck of a lot better then the idiot penguin guess it should go back to batman movie cause the joker is playing a trick.... i am finding old kermit better atm then the penguin .. but definitely loving the hippo :)

havent tried the turtle yet the stacks are selling for a mil on our server.... glad they said they would make these chepaer and easier to obtain material wise then old dipper LMAO.... 0.5% drop rate on agricarus !! LMAO

[SNK]

I enjoy my BST a lot but I'm not paying someone 300,000 and 150,000 for a stack of Jugs.

[Phogg]

enjoy war and thf
They have forums too.

Wow, really awesome summation. 8 years of BST but clearly my only point is I hate the job.....Nothing to see here, can't be at all disappointed about what has happened to the job in the last few years here in homerville.

[Xilk]

I dont' think the "THIS SUX!" posts are making an accurate comparison. they never have. BST does not have spike damage.

It has always been this way. SE apparently does not plan to change this. However, there has not been 1 single honest and complete comparison for the damage output for bst on high level mobs since the level cap was raised above 75.

At 75, it was blatantly apparent that bst could not put useful damage on the high level NM's. All the screaming and yellling is a knee jerk reaction. Frankly, I shouldn't be surprised this is happening again... but no one is adding the combined damage of pet and master to compare with...

BST as a job is actually pretty evenly split between pet damage and master damage. They are both straight up melee. Which does more damage will vary mostly due to gear and playstyle.
Amongst our jug pets it is very clear that the attack values vary greatly as well. Tiger is probably at the top, and slug is toward the bottom. We have a much better 'swiss-army' knife of jug pets at 99 than we did at 75. If you are fighting a high level NM you probably want a pet w/ high attack.

If you want to whine about the pets not performing well enough, you should have good info first. There is no good information in any of the rants I've ready on this thread, or this forum. In fact, I've searched ZAM, BG, SE, and FFxiah forums. There has NEVER been a good bst dps comparison which includes both master and pet and compares to other dd.

I've been trying to get the ground work set for making good pet dd comparisons (pet testing thread on ZAM), but its slow, and sometimes I'd rather just play.

You can rant about the job and say how much you hate what's happened to to... but the complaints are based off alot of lack of information.

edit:
Yay Phogg, you came to make useless rant posts on my thread in zam too. at least we have the karma system for zam.

Just splatter that rage any ole way you can!

[Phogg]

Once again, I've been playing BST for 8 years. My bazaar message literally says "OG Beastmaster" and "BST SUXX". I have a ridiculous abundance of BST gear for both charm and melee, full +2 af3, etc etc. I have played /nin almost exclusively the entire time with my wife playing BST/whm or BST/ rdm as we duo'd 1-96, so trust me, I understand how BST works from a DD perspective, and what they are capable of. I've been pushing the DD envelope for BST that entire time, and for that reason in any party with only other BSTs, my jug pet always tanks because no other BST has out DMG'd me head to head. But, clearly I'm uninformed and have no idea what I'm talking about.

However, none of that discussion is relevant to the problem in this thread. The problem is we are being forced by SE to use jug pets in any situation outside of randomly deciding you would like to merit or EXP with charmed pets for the novelty of it. There has been almost no reason to use charm since the 75 cap. No new content has catered to anything remotely close to a charm based BST since 75. I could sell/toss all my charm gear and it wouldn't even matter. Who cares if that's how the job was played for 75 levels, lets completely change gears and make it expensive as hell for you on top of it all, but you have no reason to be upset about that, right?

Given that SE clearly wants us to use jug pets, the pets we are offered should be useful in relation to their cost. On top of that, half of our Job abilites are based on charm. So if charm is now useless, they should be replaced by something useful under these new conditions. Not many other jobs get to level 76 and suddenly half of their JAs are useless. If anything, whatever new things we are given simply raise the gil sink cost. More expensive/rare ingredients, a job ability that literally makes your pet disappear for a boost that is practically unnoticable, etc. All the while we get leveled capped out of previously useful and less expensive jug pets.

What we have today is a situation where BST is only useful for farming, or for wasting gil so you can say you solo'd something. Yay. That was fun when my pets just cost me "Charm", but its not fun when pets cost me 16k per jug and a boatload of rewards. Further, there is hardly any situation where BST is more useful than any other job I have at the same level. My THF is almost always more useful to myself and any party I am in than my BST, and I don't have to pay for my DMG output. I don't need to find new daggers every time I zone. I don't need to replace my off hand dagger every five minutes to max out half my DMG potential.

So if SE is going to force a certain style of play, they should at least have the courtesy of not making absurd requirements for obtaining jug pets, especially when their DMG is so completely lack luster and they remain a sunk cost every time I use the ability to call them, which I can only do every five minutes creating problems in events like VW outside of simply doing crap DMG on the NMs. Again, go repeat your tests, only this time try on something outside of abyssea and come back and convince me the dmg you get for 16k a jug is worth it. You were the one pimping spike DMG from Fantod which is clearly a mirage based on abyssea buffs on weak mobs or level one mobs outside abyssea, which again, who freaking cares. I'll still do more dmg on those with my THF for free. Anything I could accomplish with these expensive new jugpets, I could do with FlowerPotMerle, and noone would notice the difference. If someone asks me what jobs I have for an end game event, and they don't tell me bring BST, I no longer have a reason to get upset over that because my other jobs are simply better. BST is simply not balanced fairly compared to other jobs right now, and to even come close costs an arm and a leg.

[SNK]

and to even come close costs an arm and a leg.

Barring the rest of your post. What excatly costs an arm and a leg?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Barring the rest of your post. What excatly costs an arm and a leg?Maybe he bought his +2s and empy?

[Olor]

yeah prices are pretty ridic. /sigh

[SNK]

I'm sure it's something else he's referring to but the only few items which cost some gil which I easily farmed in my spare time was a Moepapa Stone and Brego Gloves.

The job is cheap to gear up seeing as most of the solid gear you need is Rare/Ex.

[Phogg]

I'm sure it's something else he's referring to but the only few items which cost some gil which I easily farmed in my spare time was a Moepapa Stone and Brego Gloves.

The job is cheap to gear up seeing as most of the solid gear you need is Rare/Ex.

The thread is about the cost/benefit of consumables for BST, mainly our jug pets. Not gear.

Regarding the post about my af3+2, you make a subtle point for me. In my linkshells abyssea static I chose BST as my main job for getting af3 items. Know what job I was asked to play the entire time we farmed them? THF.

[Xilk]

However, none of that discussion is relevant to the problem in this thread. The problem is we are being forced by SE to use jug pets in any situation outside of randomly deciding you would like to merit or EXP with charmed pets for the novelty of it. There has been almost no reason to use charm since the 75 cap. No new content has catered to anything remotely close to a charm based BST since 75. I could sell/toss all my charm gear and it wouldn't even matter. Who cares if that's how the job was played for 75 levels, lets completely change gears and make it expensive as hell for you on top of it all, but you have no reason to be upset about that, right?


Actually, this thread is about the new jug pets that were added in the last update. You just derailing it for your rant. I started the Charm discussion thread as I think the 2nd thread in the BST section here. I have made my thoughts on the subject abundantly clear. I don't need to rehash them here.

You are caught up on the term of how "useless" bst is for what you want to do. If you feel that way, my suggest is to enjoy the jobs you like more for there apparent usefulness. Its certainly better than ranting and raving. I would want the game to be enjoyable.
If we get back on topic and look at your input about Falcorr... I can't really say there is much useful information there.



Who cares, I can do 3k dmg on thf every 40 seconds in abyssea and it costs me nothing. I've been the biggest BST proponent I know forever, but the job is officially dying on the vine. Take some time and repeat your tests on actual xp mobs outside abyssea. At 96 fantod it ~400 dmg on EM bats in Bostaunieux Oubliette. Yay. 16k per jug to do 350 dmg with a ready move? But I get TH! ><;

I was listing examples of what fantod was capable of. Ofcourse inside and outside of abyssea are completely different. How can I take such a comparison seriously? Are you doing 3k Ws's on em's outside abyssea on your thf? I don't recall any ws's doing quite that much damage. Is it the new dagger ws? because bst can use that too, though it may not be quite as strong as a thf using it, it will not be too far behind. I'm willing to bet a bst can do just as well on axes.

So if BST is doing about the same WS damage as a thf main, but the bst also has a pet doing damage... which one is doing more? is that really the issue?
Furthermore, falcorr is a thf type mob. Just a like a thf, the damage actually varies significantly for each hit. the dd is done by hitting alot (high triple attack rate) and doing alot of crit hits. Dipper and Falcorr both have a wider damage range than war type pets. This is largely surrounding the crits.

A single use of fantod showing 400 damage is not very informative...
it tells me 100 damage is within the range of a normal melee hit for falcorr vs an EM at level 96.
My examples showed what it was capable of which was outside of the normal expectations. they also helped to show how fantod functions for falcorr.

I'm pretty sure a bst main will hit above and below 100 damage also... but this is me seriously examining your testimony of falcorr performance when all you really want is to rant, rave and drop slather on SE for not doing it how you want it.

[Mavrick]

Falcorr is ~100k/stack on my server and with a high supply to boot. The addition of another THF pet has caused dipper's price to drop from 120k/stack to 80/stack so I guess in that sense it's not all that bad... The turtle on the other hand is a mind boggling 50k a pop. No one is even attempting to purchase a stack of Adamantoise... since stacks usually sell for higher, I'm guessing it would be 650k~700k maybe even more :/ The new pet food is 80k/stack! and thanks to the limit break bcnm Pet Food Eta is currently also 80k/stack... I'd hate to see what prices would be like if BST was actually a popular job.

[Olor]

Who cares, I can do 3k dmg on thf every 40 seconds in abyssea and it costs me nothing. I've been the biggest BST proponent I know forever, but the job is officially dying on the vine. Take some time and repeat your tests on actual xp mobs outside abyssea. At 96 fantod it ~400 dmg on EM bats in Bostaunieux Oubliette. Yay. 16k per jug to do 350 dmg with a ready move? But I get TH! ><;

Even when you can use charm, its lack luster compared to ready. Using slime pets in the same zone and waiting 2 minutes for sic (for completely random moves) to be up again just made me want to revert to jug pets, which is clearly what SE wants. Its ridiculous. I can get on my WAR and drool over a dozen or so JA's. I get on my BST and I now have only two useful JA's, Call Beast and Ready. Yay. SE can die in a fire, they have absolutely killed this job aside from a bunch of hacks who now use it to farm dynamis currency. In any actual capacity, the job is useless. 50 dmg regular hits from jug pets on NMs, 250 DMG ready moves, way to go BST!

All the fun I had with BST up to 75 is just a distant memory now. It's been my favorite job for 8 years, and I now have no motivation to level it beyond 96. Thanks for your "balance" SE. Way to balance a job out of any realm of usefulness.

BALANCE (https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-wP8CQ8RT8kE/TvQzuvzRVFI/AAAAAAAAATA/W9wSvSJ8GU0/s1024/tanakas_grudge.jpg)

That said, I love BST... to bits. But I'm done now, I am unsubbing to try some other games. Tired of playing and loving a job which the devs are afraid to ever raise higher than crap tier.

Balance to the devs seems to mean that SAM/MNK/NIN/WAR/BLM/WHM rule, a few jobs are pretty good, and everything else gets to suck. BST gets to have most of its JAs be absolutely useless, and be obsolete by design in the newest endgame content (voidwatch) - we could do WoE at a cost of 50K a run, but the devs ruined that event with ludicrous drop rates on everything but junk - and you can't solo fluxes - so we're screwed there too.

/sigh

[Economizer]

I'd hate to see what prices would be like if BST was actually a popular job.

BST isn't a popular job?!

-

Anyways, I came in here to make a suggestion about the new jug pets that I think SE should honor.

Wormy Broth / Slippery Silas should be level 23 ALL JOBS.

This would make it the first and only jug pet that all jobs can use. Considering its "status" as a "mascot pet" I think that SE should do this.

Lets get support for this idea before the community reps come back from holiday so it is the first thing they can ask the dev team for. Plus it would show they are listening to us! :p

[SNK]

The thread is about the cost/benefit of consumables for BST, mainly our jug pets. Not gear.

What's the difference really? Jugs are consumables yes but they're still part of your gear.


Regarding the post about my af3+2, you make a subtle point for me. In my linkshells abyssea static I chose BST as my main job for getting af3 items. Know what job I was asked to play the entire time we farmed them? THF.

You act like you're surprised about this. I farmed most of my BST gear inculding my Farsha on either WHM or MNK. What difference does it make what job you farm the gear you want for your favorite job?

Do you feel like it's less of an accomplishment because you obtained gear for a job by getting said gear on the job you're not on?

And about consumables, Pet jugs are cheap these days. I keep 2 stacks of Sheep Jugs on me for when I'm farming NMs like lotto pops and 1 stack of Dipper Jugs on me when I do fight the NMs I'm camping. This isn't really an issue for me and it shouldn't be for anyone else with BST.

It's a very easy job to make money with so I'm still trying to figure out where you think this huge cost is coming from. Back on topic tho, I'm happy these new jugs seem nice but the prices are way above what I'd be willing to pay for them. I'd rather just farm the mats myself and either craft them or have a friend make them for me.

[Phogg]

No, it simply reiterates my point that the job is subpar compared to quite nearly any other option at this point in most cases, and the lackluster performance by our jug pets and their cumbersome usage and timer issues is part of that problem. No one will ever ask me to bring BST for just about anything save for less than maybe 3-4 instances of any content outside of soloing that I can think of, and I can't blame them. If you don't see that as an indictment of the current state of the job, I don't know what to tell you other than we clearly disagree.

As for jugpet cost, they do cost a lot (just because you think 100k for 12 pets is not a lot, doesn't mean it is not a lot to everyone), they take up a ton of inventory space if you actually want to pay any attention to killer traits at all and, I dunno, actually play your job to the fullest. Not to mention in many cases you get to spend that gil for about 2 minutes before waving goodbye to it as you start up another event. It simply IS a cumbersome and costly endeavor to attempt to be a full time end game BST, even if someone wanted you to be. And in most cases, the cost/benefit of using the jug pet has almost nothing to do with its utility, but instead with the arbitrary difficulty of obtaining materials to make them, which was my original point. The cost vs. utility of most of our jug pets, which we are now basically required to use for almost anything post-75, is completely out of whack. I farm almost all of what I use on BST (again, with my THF) and my wife makes them into jugs or pet food. But that doesn't matter, whether you pay gil, or pay time to farm those items (which can range from considerable to ludicrous [see: Abraia]), you are being required to stop what you are doing, with frequent regularity, to obtain that gil or those items. The only thing that would be comparable for other DD's is if their gear would degrade with use requiring it to be fixed or replaced. Because if you thing jug pets are part of our gear, then I still don't see how that makes the situation better.

[Xilk]

I was playing on the test server this morning. I went to kuftal to try out falcorr and raphie vs some T~VT tigers and worms down there.

I was able to chain kill up to 5 solo w/ very little difficulty. Granted, I was willing to spend a theta biscuit every 3 or 4 fights though... Actually I had to use them more often w/ raphie. Frankly, killing faster w/ falcorr is a better tank. Raphie certainly takes less damage, and if you pop hardened shell, he takes ALOT less damage. but the fights take noticeably longer as well.

FYI, I was able to do 600 damage hit vs VT w/ falcorr using boost. I also did 1100 w/ falcorr using boost on VT tiger when he did a crit hit. I think 1100 from pet ready move on a vt mob is not bad at all outside abyssea.

I was also able to land 2k ruinator (5/5 merits) on the same VT mobs outside abyssea. I was using ferine body, hands, and feet, monster +2 head and legs. I'm sure most here can make a better set for it on live server.

I couldnt' get the 1100 aqua breaths... or anything close... it got resisted too much and only did like 100 damage (I used reward to cap hp right before using it) It was easier to keep hate on falcorr than raphie.

[Sparthos]

So to summarize the new pets:

Raphie sucks.
Mac sucks.
Falcorr wins.
Silas is a confusing mess.

and the new pet food:

Cheap to make, easy for BSTs to farm materials.

[Xilk]

Falcorr is full of win
Silas is a nice throw away jug for linkless pull or farming TE mobs in dynamis (he really is level 99 even though weak, he can rip up ep)
Raphie - Only use in very specific tanking situations...
DapperMac - is a mnk and stun/interupt bot

[Sparthos]

Raphie for tanking? Tanking what?

Eva tanking trumps Raphies face tanking, does more dmg, consumes less biscuits and finishes the battle faster which means lowering the chance of being killed. His breath attack follows the same rules as BLU where any targets worth a damn have some sort of BDT- that causes the attacks to suck.

In a situation with multiple mobs a lvl99 Nazuna handles herself better with access to Sleepga (if applicable) and lower overhead. It seems like Raphie is incomplete to me and he needs something more if SE intended him to be a 'tank'. BST already has lowbie tanking covered with EVA pets.

Admittingly I've only used Mac twice in Dynamis and he seemed unimpressive compared to other DD pets and his Stun costs two charges which makes his ability to Stun costly with regards to time. Is there anything special about him compared to previous Monks besides the Store TP he has?

[Xilk]

wing slap stun duration is affected by tp. thats the 2 charge. beak lunch is really big knockback as well, which will interrupt spellcasting. He has store tp 5 like a sam so his tp fill fast.

Raphie solo's krabkatoa rather well.
If you pop hardened shell and you are wearing pet -pdt gear (48% possible, 40 pretty common) then Raphi will have temendous reduction to even the hardest hitters. I"ve not explored it much, but the potential is easy to see if you've taken raphie out at all. btw, tortoise stomp is -25% attack as well.

hmm next time I test server I'll see about comparing damage taken on raphie for normal hits, hardened shel, and both hardened shell and tortoise stomp. the tigers would be good targets again. they have high attack.

[Mavrick]

wing slap stun duration is affected by tp. thats the 2 charge. beak lunch is really big knockback as well, which will interrupt spellcasting. He has store tp 5 like a sam so his tp fill fast.

From my personal experience (and testimonial from wiki) monsters can cast while moving so knockback would not do anything in regard to stopping spells. If this was true then Blu's Headbutt and Sudden Lunge would always interrupt Magic from all NMs even if the "Stun" effect failed to proc or the NM was immune to stun because both those spells (as well as other blue magic) has additional effect knockback.

Besides, Sheep already has Sheep Charge which is mild knock back as well as Mandragora's Head Butt so it wouldn't have been anything unique. Unless wing slap is special in some other way I still see it as a useless ability.

Also stun is nothing special:
- Dipper stuns, (2 charge)
- Eft stuns (1 charge)
- Raptor stuns (1 charge)
- Lizard Stuns (1 charge)
- Leech stuns (1 charge)

We have all these pets that can stun but when was the last time you saw a BST strategy that involved stunning? Pet stuns simply take too long to use. You first require TP, you then require charges, you then have to see the spell/ability, hit the macro, pet has to ready the ability which generally takes an additional 1s~2s (I have not test wing slap's ready time), then the attack has to hit the enemy...AND the stun effect has to trigger... with so many conditions the only thing you're going to even have a chance of stunning are spells and abilities with very long ready/cast times.

You seem to be pushing really hard for the penguin but I fear it's all for naught. He could have had auto regain 100tp/tick and have all ability costing 1 charge with Yawn and Frigid Shuffle added into the mix and it would still be a useless pet, that's how bad it is.

If I was running things at SE I would've toned down some of those useless traits, dropped his HP, and given this pet some useful support ability to make up for his weak DD potential. It's a MNK pet, so I would've have given him a Yawn type ability that instead granted a sufficient AOE Max HP boost or a Counter/Dodge Bonus to party members in range (no effect on pet himself).

For Turtle, considering his high cost, lack of DD traits, and model of a NM, I would've made him real special and unique. I would've had Harden Shell grant a 90s Sphere/Aura Effect: Damage Taken - 20~25% to nearby party members (independent of the players PDT/MDT cap). Hell, I'd even finally give some meaning to the Beast Strength chart and bumped that up to 30% if the turtle was engaged with a Vermin type monster and add another 5% if Killer Instinct was active... but heh, that's just me.

I'm actually fine with Falcorr they way he is, turned out a lot more useful than I initially gave him credit for. Great for Low level farming so wouldn't really change anything except better access to pet: +Critical, +DA, +TA, +QA gear to make Fantod really shine.

[SNK]

No, it simply reiterates my point that the job is subpar compared to quite nearly any other option at this point in most cases, and the lackluster performance by our jug pets and their cumbersome usage and timer issues is part of that problem.

If you're having a problem keeping a pet alive longer then the Call Beast Timer then I really wonder what the heck you're fighting.


No one will ever ask me to bring BST for just about anything save for less than maybe 3-4 instances of any content outside of soloing that I can think of, and I can't blame them. If you don't see that as an indictment of the current state of the job, I don't know what to tell you other than we clearly disagree.

There's nothing to disagree about. It's like you're upset that your job designed for soloing can't do more party related stuff. It's a solo job and truthfully as SE sees it, it always will be.


As for jugpet cost, they do cost a lot (just because you think 100k for 12 pets is not a lot, doesn't mean it is not a lot to everyone), they take up a ton of inventory space if you actually want to pay any attention to killer traits at all and, I dunno, actually play your job to the fullest.

The way this game throws money at you via curor, Dom ops and whatnot, 100k is really pocket change. Complaining about making money on a job which can make a lot of gil solo shouldn't be an issue. As far as inventory space goes, welcome to every single job in FFXI which has the same problem so it's not like BST is any exception to this.


Not to mention in many cases you get to spend that gil for about 2 minutes before waving goodbye to it as you start up another event.

And I bet you NINs or anyone who subs NIN feels the same way with their Shihei costs. This isn't anything new for any job.


It simply IS a cumbersome and costly endeavor to attempt to be a full time end game BST, even if someone wanted you to be.

How do you think some people who play PLD feel? I don't mean your standard McGimp PLDs but those who carry either relic and emp gear? Cure Cheat Sets, MDT, PDT, Haste, & weapon skill sets? BST isn't the only job that gets loaded down on gear. Some career BLMs alone are pushing the 75/80 inventory slots on their sets alone.

BLUs as well have some stupid amount of gearsets for their spells as well be it from Charged Whisker, Healing, DD, Haste, etc. You get the idea. BST isn't any more special as any other job if you want to gear it right.



And in most cases, the cost/benefit of using the jug pet has almost nothing to do with its utility, but instead with the arbitrary difficulty of obtaining materials to make them, which was my original point.

Making sheep jugs cost me next to nothing because like most people who jumped into their job, it was easy enough to research that having a craft saves a ton of money on this issue. I know some people don't like crafting but those same people are willing to pay a crafter for their time and effort so they can do what they want without having to make their jugs themselves.


The cost vs. utility of most of our jug pets, which we are now basically required to use for almost anything post-75, is completely out of whack.

As much gil as I make with jug pets I see this as a point of view or lack of point of direction of where you're going to make money. Truth be told, you'd be amazed how much people are willing to pay for drops from "older" content. I've been to many different places and walked out with 500k to 800k in a few hours of farming.


I farm almost all of what I use on BST (again, with my THF) and my wife makes them into jugs or pet food. But that doesn't matter, whether you pay gil, or pay time to farm those items (which can range from considerable to ludicrous [see: Abraia]), you are being required to stop what you are doing, with frequent regularity, to obtain that gil or those items.

What you see as a requirement a lot of players see as either something they enjoy or something they know they need to do to get the job done. Then again, I actually enjoy fishing and if that isn't a path to self-punishment for most players then I don't know what is. lol


The only thing that would be comparable for other DD's is if their gear would degrade with use requiring it to be fixed or replaced. Because if you thing jug pets are part of our gear, then I still don't see how that makes the situation better.

A NINs tools are their gears, RNGs use ammo and it's their gear, BLMs pay millions for their scrolls and without them they're worthless. WHMs pay a ton of money for their scrolls, BRDs have to suffer a huge choking of their inventory space as well.

You get the idea.

Jug pets are honestly cheap compared to how much money other jobs throw towards what they want to do.

The thing which I see is bothering you is you want BST to be more then a solo job and while I agree with your feelings on it, it sadly will never be. It's a job where I can either goto Dynamis, Farm NMs, or just help people in lowman events where a BST can really get into their groove and have fun.

BST isn't fun for you anymore so nothing I can say will change your mind but for me and many others who've played this job just as long if not longer then you, it's a blast.

If you're feeling that you're not having fun then by all means go out and enjoy something that you think if fun but don't degrade other folks into enjoying the job as much as they do.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Falcorr is full of win
Silas is a nice throw away jug for linkless pull or farming TE mobs in dynamis (he really is level 99 even though weak, he can rip up ep)
Raphie - Only use in very specific tanking situations...
DapperMac - is a waste of a pet

That's better.


A NINs tools are their gears, RNGs use ammo and it's their gear, BLMs pay millions for their scrolls and without them they're worthless. WHMs pay a ton of money for their scrolls, BRDs have to suffer a huge choking of their inventory space as well.

All of which none in the long run equal the cost to BST.

One of costs for spell - permanent use
90k for 1188 Shihei - With a high rate of not using those shihei, same for Arrows.
100k for 12 pets that last at most 180 minutes, can't zone anyway, are removed before entry to most content.

They are not equal, Money is easy to get but they are not equal in costs to any of the jobs you mentioned.

[Aldersyde]

Falcorr is full of win
Silas is a nice throw away jug for linkless pull or farming TE mobs in dynamis (he really is level 99 even though weak, he can rip up ep)
Raphie - Only use in very specific tanking situations...
DapperMac - is a mnk and stun/interupt bot

Does Ralphie have the innate lightning resistance that adamantoise mobs have? Because when Camate introduced the jug to us, easily smoking thunder-magic-damage mobs was the only use I saw for it.

[SNK]

That's better.



All of which none in the long run equal the cost to BST.

One of costs for spell - permanent use
90k for 1188 Shihei - With a high rate of not using those shihei, same for Arrows.
100k for 12 pets that last at most 180 minutes, can't zone anyway, are removed before entry to most content.

They are not equal, Money is easy to get but they are not equal in costs to any of the jobs you mentioned.

Not once did I mention they were equal. My point I was making that if you want to do your job right then yes you're going to be spending a lot of gil to do it. The idea why I don't see 100k as a problem is it gives me the options to go out and make money without having to split it with other people.

Also keep in mind that 100k a stack of jugs is pretty foolish if you're using it just for that. Going out and making gil can be done very cheaply, *Nazuna* and if you're fighting a NM then you swap out to your money pet and get the job done.

This is easily a point of knowing how you handle your money when it's best to budget yourself when you're farming.

Anyways my point still stands. Every job in FFXI has costs. Be it from scrolls, ammo, NIN tools, or even buying all your instruments you will be spending a ton of money. Find your balance when you're working around costs and whatnot on BST and you'll find yourself making way much more money then you spend to get the job done.

[Jerbob]

I think it's important to be aware of the distinctions between consumables (and non-consumables that aren't even comparable) that jobs use. Jug pets and pet food items are (unfortunately) an absolute requirement for beastmasters at this stage of the game, so making them difficult to synthesise is just absurd. Ninjutsu tools are a good parallel, and no-one will argue that shihei are difficult to make or farm/acquire materials for. It's like any other system of mandatory consumables - you should have the option to craft them yourself or buy them. For newer pets this isn't possible. Phogg mentions that his wife levelled cooking specifically for Beastmaster - if that was practical all the way to level 75, it's insane for it to all change now.

Almost all existing jug pets and pet food items are relatively practical to make using materials that aren't that hard to acquire at the level that you'd be using them - at level 75 we even had CourierCarrie which you could make absurdly cheaply. Requiring level 100 fishing and an Ebisu fishing rod, or a readily available supply of dragon meat, is undeniably a new level and it's completely impractical with regards to creating your own consumables.

In my opinion, this is just another one of those things that SE makes pointlessly irritating or refuses to fix for no good reason. Jug pets could be modified to work across zonelines years ago. I don't think we've ever been given a good reason why all pets disappear when a Confrontation status is applied in eg. Voidwatch. Charm could easily have been fixed creatively; something as simple as bringing a charmed pet to within 0-2 levels of your own when Run Wild is used, for example. It just takes a bit of thought, and an understanding of how things work in practice. Regrettably this seems to be something that SE isn't keen to demonstrate.

[Economizer]

This could still be an outrage to Beastmasters, I don't really know, but I think it somewhat shoes what SE has for exceptions of the job, maybe the issue is that the pets SE expects players to use more are the cheaper ones. Pets (stack prices from my server listed for an example after each pet) like Nursery Nazuna (~10k) and Gooey Gerard (~20k) are dirt cheap and solid choices for most content, but if you want a THF pet, you pay a premium, whether it is Dipper Yuly (~90k) or Faithful Falcorr (~70k). Few pets cost more then 100k a stack on my server.

I think a good comparison for these isn't just tools/cards/bullets/arrows, but also foods in addition to those consumables.

For example, getting higher performance from say, a high end attack food like Dragon Steak (~35k, 3 hours) or Dragon Soup (~20k, 3 hours), Red Curry (70k, 3 hours), Red Curry Bun +1 (200k, 30 minutes x12), or the lesser/cheaper Hedgehog Pie (15k, 3 hours) isn't something everyone does all the time, but when you want to be at your best, you use it (and I'm greatly simplifying here, there are a variety of other relevant foods as well).

All that said, Crude Raphie (~400k) is pretty expensive, so the question is "in what situation will this be a cost effective pet?" Regardless of if there is a good answer, I suspect that Crude Raphie goes the way of the Elixir and is rarely if ever used.

-

As a bit of a side note, I know SE said they have no plans of making biscuits stackable, but perhaps they would be open to a sort of bag of pet treats. If price is really an issue, the thing are barred from the AH (or even made exclusive) so that Beastmasters have to bag them themselves using the relevant NPCs. The item to bag them could be something really simple too, like a chocobo feather. And since treats stack to 12, perhaps the bags could stack to 99.

[Jerbob]

The difference lies, I believe, in that a beastmaster's pets are the reason that you level the job and the tool that allows you to play it at all, whereas food is (sometimes literally :P) just the icing on the cake. I can definitely understand the point that some pets with distinct features are more difficult to make (and therefore more expensive) to offset the value of those features, and I wouldn't be surprised if that was SE's motivation, but I feel that SE has taken this to extremes. A level 100 fish that's nearly impossible to practically catch without what is essentially a sort of relic item is a step too far. Items with 0.5% droprates are not things you can try to obtain for yourself without going insane.

If SE wants to preserve the idea of "junk pets" like NurseryNazuna and FlowerpotMerle and "specialist pets" like DipperYuly etc then fair enough, but I think it would be more fair to make the divide a little less ridiculous. I know people's metric for worth in terms of currency is different across the board, but 400k for a stack of 12 jug pets is just beyond rational belief to me. Even 90k is pretty costly for a stack of 12 consumables that not only disappear in all sorts of situations, but due to its specialist nature is going to be used in tougher situations where it will be dying or need tons of food pumped into it.

Obviously things are priced at what people are willing to pay for them, and that's fine, but with synths like these that you can't make yourself (or have a friend able to help with) then there's no choice. I think that's what people have a problem with.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Not once did I mention they were equal. My point I was making that if you want to do your job right then yes you're going to be spending a lot of gil to do it. The idea why I don't see 100k as a problem is it gives me the options to go out and make money without having to split it with other people.

Also keep in mind that 100k a stack of jugs is pretty foolish if you're using it just for that. Going out and making gil can be done very cheaply, *Nazuna* and if you're fighting a NM then you swap out to your money pet and get the job done.

This is easily a point of knowing how you handle your money when it's best to budget yourself when you're farming.

Anyways my point still stands. Every job in FFXI has costs. Be it from scrolls, ammo, NIN tools, or even buying all your instruments you will be spending a ton of money. Find your balance when you're working around costs and whatnot on BST and you'll find yourself making way much more money then you spend to get the job done.

Perhaps, but it doesn't mean SE should be so unbalanced where BST is concerned.