Why no Nuke love??

[Krysten]

youve had Banish IV and Banishga III on server since you started it why havent the real game got it??? yet smn light spirit gets it :( we WHM want to Nuke too and you havent shown us any love :( we should have Banish V by now lol.

[Economizer]

Sorry to disappoint any of you who were getting their hopes up, but the release timing for Banish IV and Banishga III are currently undecided.

They are on the test server for you to try out, but we are still in the process of looking into the stats.

Yes, I wish we had Banish V, but White Mage obviously has had no chance at nuking since the few hours Cure did 99999 damage to undead, and before that, since Japanese Black Mages got all butthurt that Holy was out damaging them.

Basically, said things may be nice, but even against undead, White Mage is a subpar nuker, and SE giving White Mage much deserved spells is at the bottom of their priority list, somewhere below fixing spell lock but just above fixing barstatus spells like Barparalyzra.

[Krysten]

Ahh i see you took it off the new test phase.... i guess that means well never get it ><

[Krysten]

i feel its not in the job its how you equip for it. i was lvling with whm nukes right along with Blm before abyssea came around and did just fine. i dont see how we get some lame spells well never uses (baramnisra comes to mind) before a Well deserved spell like Banish 4, 5 so not everyoine will use it so what some us like to play Whm differntly then oithers i think there should be the optin. if there waiting for it to be the popular vote it wont ever be in but i hope they throw us a bone sometime :/

[cidbahamut]

No nuking love until you relinquish your monopoly on healing. White Mage is OP enough as it is.

[Arkanethered]

Lets all cry because for once SE has the right job doing the right thing (Whm = strongest healer)... Want to main cure? Level it... Want to half ass cure with rdm or sch? Get a time machine.

[cidbahamut]

ITT: defending bad game design

[Alkimi]

Holy II is enough for nuking. Does damage comparable to a tier 4 nuke with full solace charge and is virtually insta-cast.

Just have to build for it which I think more WHMs should do.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Lets all cry because for once SE has the right job doing the right thing (Whm = strongest healer)... Want to main cure? Level it... Want to half ass cure with rdm or sch? Get a time machine.

People are crying because now they also want to be good nukers on WHM.... If you want to nuke level BLM (by your logic)

[Aleste]

If you're going to QQ, I suggest you head back to the RDM forum.

No white mage is asking to be able to nuke damage like a black mage, get over yourselves. All they're asking for is a continuation of a spell line, ones which are already in the game (Light spirit casts Banish 4 at lvl90 and Banish V animation is in the dats).

5 - Banish
30 - Banish 2
65 - Banish 3
95?? - Banish 4
Merit - Banish 5

15 - Banishga
40 - Banishga 2
75?? - Banishga 3

Personally, considering the damage on them is pathetic at best (even under the effects of misery, and properly geared), I'd rather they tweak them to be better against undead as the bonus (and merits) is lackluster.

Edit --
Hell, change it to give a 1% (per tier, 5% on banish V) damage modifier on undead only. Then give paladin up to Banish 4.

[cidbahamut]

No white mage Red Mage or Scholar is asking to be able to nuke damage heal like a black mage white mage, get over yourselves. All they're asking for is a continuation of a spell line, ones which are already in the game .

Hmmm... Cure V anyone?

[Aleste]

Yes, because comparing banish 4 for cure V makes complete sense....

[cidbahamut]

Your line of reasoning is identical, which was the point you missed like a champ.

[Aleste]

Actually, I didn't miss the point, I had figured that you were just poking fun and that you were not using it as the basis for RDM not getting Cure V (seriously, do we really have to cover this topic again?).

In fact, the line of reasoning isn't identical, it is similar in nature, but not identical. Though I cannot believe that you're comparing Banish 4 to Cure V as the main basis for your arguement. Really, that's just silly.

In terms of pure mathematical strength;
Banish 4 is in the dats set for WHM90, costs 108mp and does barely 100 damage higher compared to banish3. (~15% boost in damage at a cost of 16 more mp)
Cure V, compared to cure 4 (for a whitemage) is approximately a 55% boost inside abyssea on straight cure, and ~25% outside. (47 MP difference)

Comparatively, you could say that the increased MP cost of the strength of the spell, relative to the predessor, is approximately similar across both spells, however, when you stop to consider the old 'RDM or GTFO' mainhealing/event style play that used to dominate pre-abyssea FFXI then it becomes more than a simple equation. Cure V carries more weight than simply adding another damaging spell, and isn't a simple balance.


But, ok, I'll bite;

Lets assume for the minute that RDM gains Cure V, and that somehow, doesn't usurp WHM in the overall healing category. Let's look at it objectively shall we?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- - Cures - -

A 99 WHM/SCH with perfect curing gear will have~
Healing Skill - 421
MND - ~100 Varies with race and merits
VIT - ~80 Varies with race and merits
Enm - 0 (Assumption: either RDM or WHM will have the same quantity of base enm, pre- traits and later calculations)
Fast Cast - 30% 20% merits, 10% light arts

Add to this:
Surya's +3 24% potency
Reign grip 3MND
--
Mana ampulla 3MND
Orison cap +2 10MND 10% potency
Aifes medal 6MND
Roundel earri 5% potency
Orison earri 2% potency -3 enm
Orison Bli +2 20 skill
Augur gloves 7MND 5 skill 4% potency
Aquasoul ring 7MND
Aquasoul ring 7MND
Tempered cape 4 skill 4% potency
Cascade belt 7MND
Orison pan +2 12% CCT
Orison duck +2 8MND

Equates to~
49% potency, 58 MND, 29 skill, -3 enm
Base power 824, Cure V ~1,228
Cure V ~1,104


A 99 RDM/SCH with perfect curing gear will have~
Healing Skill - 386 (inc. arts)
MND - ~100 Varies with race and merits
VIT - ~80 Varies with race and merits
Fast Cast - 40% 30% FC V, 10% light arts

Add to this:
Surya's +3 24% potency
Reign grip 3MND
--
Mana ampulla 3MND
Ruach crown 12MND
Estoq. collar 8MND
Roundel earri 5% potency
Neptune pearl 4MND
Heka kalaris 17MND 15% potency 15% CCT
Augur gloves 7MND 5 skill 4% potency
Aquasoul ring 7MND
Aquasoul ring 7MND
Tempered cape 4 skill 4% potency
Cascade belt 7MND
Rubeus spats 12MND
Estoq. Hous+2 13MND -7 enm

Equates to~
50% (52//capped) potency, 100MND, 9 skill, -7 enm
Base power 917, Cure V ~1,264
Cure V ~1,128

Both jobs can hit simiarly high capped casting/recast time reduction....
Difference in barspells is approximately ~48.6 resist, 30MDB, 4% Negate WHM vs RDM
Difference in shell potency is 3.14%
Auspice vs enspells? no competition really... depends on how much you value subtle blow.
Enfeebling strength? depends on how much we're going to argue. Anything worth enfeebling is immune to even RDM potent enfeebling, anything fodder, WHM won't have issues capping.
Banish 1/2/3/ga/ga2 vs Fire/earth/water/wind/ice/lightning 1-4? FAAAAR weighed in RDMs favour.
Regen 3/4 vs phalanx? Depends on amount of damage sustained over time relative to other assisted curing. Sways either way.

Refresh/MP longetivity is an interesting question however, recent events/activities have vastly increased our capability of recovering MP (atma's/temps) which is why I kept this seperate from the above, however... RDM is capable of getting 1/tic more refresh than WHM, excluding refresh2 6/tic and convert (varies with HP, gear and timing; ~1,200/10mins ~2/tic); You can draw the line in the sand around Orison Pantaloons +2, versus the amount of MP saved via the reduced cost of re-haste/regenning the target if you'd like. I really can't be bothered.

So really, if we're min/maxing and you absolutely need the additional ~350 stoneskin (on a cureV) and ~4% difference in shell and barspells then get a WHM; otherwise you'd pick a RDM.

Honestly, given the previous situation of RDM BRD DD DD DD DD, I'm really not surprised that they're not going to give you Cure V.

(optional THEY TOOK OUR JOBS.jpg somewhere here if I can be bothered to hunt for one)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Compare all that to WHM getting the capability of casting Banish 4 then. I'd love to see how you rationalise it.


---------// EDIT : My cure calculator is incorrect, scored through incorrect values and replaced with correct ones.

[Retsujo]

While the argument is solid to an extent, it's certainly not what the impier was implying when she sarcastically stated your argument for Banish IV is similar to what the RDMs have been whining about for Cure V. She wasn't saying 'prove to me why you are or aren't for or against Cure V for RDMs" she was saying "wanting Banish IV because it's been enough levels to justify having a higher tier" is similar to the Cure V argument going around.

I hope you don't miss the point this time around with my explanation ^^;

[Granny]

well even if rdm gets cure5 dont think it could come close to matching whm just for the fact alone of cureskin... . then another MASSIVE advantage is all the MDB whm can offer through stronger shell, and MDB bonusES it gets to its much stronger barspells which occ nullify its corrisponding element.

lol its it a massive 25 MDB whm barspells give for that element? merits 10, solace 5, emp body+2 gives another 5 to solace bonus, then that club from cactus abyssea altep nm gives another 5 to barspells so 25, then shell5 fully merited lol thats almost 50 cap right there...

dont see even with cure5 ppl would want rdm over whm. rdm needs some love and cure5 at least to make it even slightly more relevent to gameplay lol.

[Concerned4FFxi]

WHM is main heal, case closed. You want nuking power, get another job. I love whm, it's the best curing job in the game, if it gets too much nuking power the game will have to balance out and give other jobs cure V, when that happens it will be lolwhm all over again.

[Seiowan]

WHM is main heal, case closed. You want nuking power, get another job. I love whm, it's the best curing job in the game, if it gets too much nuking power the game will have to balance out and give other jobs cure V, when that happens it will be lolwhm all over again.
Ya know, you're right. I mean it's not as if we're the only job that gets the Banish line of spells, surely Paladin can put them to better use... /sarcasm

Giving White Mage's the higher tier Banish spells does nothing to turn them into a full-time nuking job. Sorry guys, but unless you've been living under a rock for the last ten years, you'll have noticed that of all the nuke spells, the Banish line not only has the longest recasts of them all, but also sucks by comparison damage-wise unless used on undead.

Undead are an exception because WHM is supposed to be the nemesis of all the unliving. We get merits to that effect! We have no native MAB to boost the damage and unlike Holy, there's no easy way to max it out unless we're smacked around the face so we can gain a bonus from Afflatus Misery, a practice few would recommend.

Black Mage's are hardly going to be put out by a few extra light-elemental magic spells, at least no more than they were with our other Banish spells. The only reason anyone disagrees here is because it means WHM getting new toys, and apparently because we're good at healing (okay, fine, we're the BEST at healing) that's a bad thing.

Do you guys play Scholar by any chance? I have a feeling that some of these posters are venting their frustrations at losing their helix spells to anyone /SCH. I hear your cries, by the way. I'm a Scholar too.

[Economizer]

the Banish line not only has the longest recasts of them all, but also sucks by comparison damage-wise unless used on undead.

The only way this is really true is the defense debuff it put on undead, which is great for bypassing damage reduction of ghosts/skeletons depending on what weapon you use.

We simply don't encounter undead enough for a focus on our undead killing spells to be effective, and cures have been nerfed too hard against undead to be effective either.

Black Mages, Scholars, and Red Mages can easily nuke harder, even on undead. I'd imagine that Dark Knights and Paladins come close.


We have no native MAB to boost the damage and unlike Holy, there's no easy way to max it out unless we're smacked around the face so we can gain a bonus from Afflatus Misery, a practice few would recommend.

Afflatus Misery only records the latest hit, so even that doesn't really help.

-

I've been refraining from posting in here again, because I have no interest in talking to people who have the opinion "because job x is good at something they deserve no attention except nerfs" when said job only excels at support. Every job in FFXI is capable of damage dealing, and should be considering the way people treat support jobs - additionally, other jobs can't expect greater healing or support ability if the main healing and support job is incapable of doing damage. Personally, I don't think White Mage is going to get much of a boost to nuking outside of maybe another underpowered tier or two, but those aren't going to make the difference, because White Mage is a pretty terrible nuker, and the real power of White Mage when it comes to damage has been melee for a very long time.

But I suppose posters who think White Mage shouldn't be given anything but a nerf want White Mage melee to be nerfed as well?

[Seiowan]

The only way this is really true is the defense debuff it put on undead, which is great for bypassing damage reduction of ghosts/skeletons depending on what weapon you use.While partly true, undead also take significantly more damage from Banish spells than other enemy types. I'm sure someone could grace us with the actual modifier I'll just go with the knowledge that it's just "a heck of a lot more". Banish III can hit upwards of 700 damage on undead using basic gear (Yeah, massive nuke potential there, go WHM!), perhaps a little more if you get beat down with a powerful attack. Though, if you're being hit by something the last thing you probably want to do is provoke it further by blasting it with Banish spells, strong or otherwise.


We simply don't encounter undead enough for a focus on our undead killing spells to be effective, and cures have been nerfed too hard against undead to be effective either.In my mind, cure spells should deal their healing amount in damage, as has always been the case in Final Fantasy games with no resistance possible and no MAB modifier added. At best, we could deal around 2.5k damage with Cure VI on an undead using Divine Seal, so it's hardly going to make us overpowered. But it would make for some more interesting ways to fight as a white mage, while futher strengthening the idea that WHM is an undead slayer. It would also aid Paladin's in their fight against the undead!


Black Mages, Scholars, and Red Mages can easily nuke harder, even on undead. I'd imagine that Dark Knights and Paladins come close.Sorry, but Dark Knights don't even come anywhere near close. Their nuking potential is severely hampered by melee-centric equipment and a lack of MAB. There are items which boost that a bit, but it's hardly enough to make Dark Knights consider their elemental skill worthwhile. On the other hand, they do get a strong Drain spell but it's completely useless against undead. Paladins, again, can't really compete due to their melee-centric or tank-centric equipment. Maybe if they pushed the boat out they could get it higher, but their typically lower MIND stat drastically reduces the damage output on Banish spells when compared to White Mages.


Afflatus Misery only records the latest hit, so even that doesn't really help.Yeah, that was really my point. Afflatus Misery isn't much of a benefit for nuking, despite what some earlier posts suggested. Taking considerable damage to deal a little bit more in nuke potential is a really stupid idea. I wonder which Dev thought that little beauty up.

White Mage is a pretty terrible nuker, and the real power of White Mage when it comes to damage has been melee for a very long time.

But I suppose posters who think White Mage shouldn't be given anything but a nerf want White Mage melee to be nerfed as well?Probably, but hey, what are forums for :D

[Economizer]

While partly true, undead also take significantly more damage from Banish spells than other enemy types.

If we can nuke better on undead in any case, I'd imagine it is because undead have a terrible MND stat for damage calculations. Still, a Black Mage destroys us against them.


In my mind, cure spells should deal their healing amount in damage, as has always been the case in Final Fantasy games with no resistance possible and no MAB modifier added. At best, we could deal around 2.5k damage with Cure VI on an undead using Divine Seal, so it's hardly going to make us overpowered.

Cure VI hard caps at 1140 damage (very hard to get to), so the best we'd be able to pull is 2280 damage with Divine Seal. Even at a full potency, cure spells aren't very MP efficient unless you also add no resist and are fighting very resistant mobs.


Sorry, but Dark Knights don't even come anywhere near close. Their nuking potential is severely hampered by melee-centric equipment and a lack of MAB. There are items which boost that a bit, but it's hardly enough to make Dark Knights consider their elemental skill worthwhile. On the other hand, they do get a strong Drain spell but it's completely useless against undead. Paladins, again, can't really compete due to their melee-centric or tank-centric equipment. Maybe if they pushed the boat out they could get it higher, but their typically lower MIND stat drastically reduces the damage output on Banish spells when compared to White Mages.

I certainly didn't mean against undead, but I suppose Dark Knights have had a lack of nuking gear in general, and has had the nuking side ignored for far too long. Paladin on the other hand has a job ability they can use every ten minutes that boosts the damage done by Banish and Holy by a very significant amount.

This may have been a bit of an exaggeration, but the point was not to say either of these are good or where they should be at nuking, but to say that White Mage sucks at it.


Yeah, that was really my point. Afflatus Misery isn't much of a benefit for nuking, despite what some earlier posts suggested. Taking considerable damage to deal a little bit more in nuke potential is a really stupid idea. I wonder which Dev thought that little beauty up.

Afflatus Misery sucks in general, currently the best usage for it is to ungimp Esuna. I've been considering a post about it recently...

[Daniel_Hatcher]

A 99 WHM/SCH with perfect curing gear will have~
49% potency, 58 MND, 29 skill, -3 enm
Base power 824, Cure V ~1,228

A 99 RDM/SCH with perfect curing gear will have~

50% (52//capped) potency, 100MND, 9 skill, -7 enm
Base power 917, Cure V ~1,264

Say what!!!

WHM

20% Merits
10% SCH
15% Clogs
15% Legs
5% Neck

Healing:
Staff : 23%
Back : 4%
Head: 10%
Augur Gloves: 4%
Earring: 5%
Preaco Trousers: 4%

(You'll notice this even allows you to use the Emp body)
--------------------
50% Potency -- 65% Fast Cast (Could get more with the staff for light damage) | Fast Cast only needs to be equipped at the beginning of the cast... So I fail to see your logic.

For fun:

WHM Nuking:
Main - Staff (~35%)
Sub -
Ammo - Memoria Sachet (2 MAB)
Head - Nefer Khat (5 MAB)
Neck - Stoicheion Medal (8 MAB) / Saevus (9 MAB)
Ear1 - Novio / Strophadic Earring / Moldavite (6 / 4 MAB)
Ear2 - Hecates Earring (7 MAB)
Body - Morrigan's Robe (5 MAB)
Hands - Eradico Mitts (7 MAB)
Ring1 - Strendu Ring (4 MAB)
Ring2 - Whatever!
Back - Hecates (3 MAB) - Romanus (4 MAB)
Waist - Oneiros Sash (4 MAB)
Legs - Wicca (4 MAB) / Teal (3 MAB)
Feet - Theurgia Clogs (4 MAB)

This wont make them compete with BLM, but if you wanted to, you could buil a magical damage set.

Proving that you missed the point in this first place is not needed as someone else did so.

[Aleste]

Ok, it's obvious you know less about whitemage than you pretend to think you know.

Firstly, under certain circumstances it is more preferable to use a lower potency build if you're gaining a significant amount of MND. A good example of this was at the previous cap when using Augur gloves and any MND feet performed better than the serpentes pair. 1% potency difference versus 17 MND and 5 skill.

If you'd like to educate yourself more, there's an interesting thread over on the FFXIAH forums 'Tefnut wand vs Surya's' where Kalilla covers a vast number of potential sets and the output cure values.

Secondly, Praeco Trousers? Serious? Any intelligent whitemage will be using orison pantaloons +2, which, just for the record can almost double your HP/MP efficiency per spell.

Edit:// Numbers-
105 MND (+90 gear), 86 VIT, 414 Skill (+29 gear) gives a power of 954. 50% potency gives a cure V of 1,134. WHM/SCH with light arts; Cure V costs 122 MP.

Without pants gives a 9.29 HP/MP ratio
With pants, returns 56.7 (floored) MP, which effectivally makes your cure V cost 66MP. 17.18 HP/MP ratio.

Go back to the redmage forums, at least you know what you're talking about there.

//Second edit : Typos

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Ok, it's obvious you know less about whitemage than you pretend to think you know.

Firstly, under certain circumstances it is more preferable to use a lower potency build if you're gaining a significant amount of MND. A good example of this was at the previous cap when using Augur gloves and any MND feet performed better than the serpentes pair. 1% potency difference versus 17 MND and 5 skill.

If you'd like to educate yourself more, there's an interesting thread over on the FFXIAH forums 'Tefnut wand vs Surya's' where Kalilla covers a vast number of potential sets and the output cure values.

Secondly, Praeco Trousers? Now you've really shot yourself in the foot. Any intelligent whitemage will be using orison pantaloons +2, which, just for the record can double your HP/MP efficency per spell.

It was as a point genius. Necklace +1 and lvl 99 staff is 50% without trousers so again, your point for not having 50% is?

But do keep continuing to miss the point, it is ever so fun.

PS. When'd the cure format change:

49% Potency - 29 Healing skill plus cap, and 58 MND != 1224 when I checked the format. -- 1059

Just checked over my gear and I have:

50% Potency
+20 Skill
+65 MND
The Emp Body+Trousers

I'm fine with that, should they actually make skill worth anything, I'll change it then.

[Aleste]

Fair enough, my cure calculator program appears to be out of date and the resultant cure V numbers incorrect*. Thanks, I've updated the Cure V post with the new Cure V numbers just for you and to save you scrolling up, there's a difference of 24 HP in redmages favour, however that isn't taking cureskin into account.

Don't you think it's highly unusual for the premier healing class to cure LESS than a jack-of-all-trades?


It was as a point genius. Necklace +1 and lvl 99 staff is 50% without trousers so again, your point for not having 50% is?

The post above said:

Firstly, under certain circumstances it is more preferable to use a lower potency build if you're gaining a significant amount of MND. A good example of this was at the previous cap when using Augur gloves and any MND feet performed better than the serpentes pair. 1% potency difference versus 17 MND and 5 skill.

It's nice to see you're reading posts before replying.



Although, yes I'll agree that this tangent on Cure V is getting a little out of hand... (don't try to do the math on scholar getting Cure V, it's almost rediculous)


She wasn't saying 'prove to me why you are or aren't for or against Cure V for RDMs" she was saying "wanting Banish IV because it's been enough levels to justify having a higher tier" is similar to the Cure V argument going around.

I had originally read Cids' clever wordplay to imply that WHM getting Banish 4 would be akin to RDM (and SCH) getting Cure V. Of course SE specifically told us that RDM (or SCH) will not be getting Cure V, however, this is where the difference lies.

WHMs were given Banish4 and ga-3 on the test server for a month or so, only to have it removed with this quote:


Sorry to disappoint any of you who were getting their hopes up, but the release timing for Banish IV and Banishga III are currently undecided.

They are on the test server for you to try out, but we are still in the process of looking into the stats.

AND


Banish IV and Banishga III, for which an implementation timetable has yet to be determined, have received a lot of attention.

The implication is that we will be getting them eventually~



*Until I can be bothered downloading FFXIcalc again I'll be referring to http://members.shaw.ca/pizza_steve/cure/Cure_Calculator.html

[Alkimi]

Say what!!!
WHM Nuking:
Main - Staff (~35%)
Sub -
Ammo - Memoria Sachet (2 MAB)
Head - Nefer Khat (5 MAB)
Neck - Stoicheion Medal (8 MAB) / Saevus (9 MAB)
Ear1 - Novio / Strophadic Earring / Moldavite (6 / 4 MAB)
Ear2 - Hecates Earring (7 MAB)
Body - Morrigan's Robe (5 MAB)
Hands - Eradico Mitts (7 MAB)
Ring1 - Strendu Ring (4 MAB)
Ring2 - Whatever!
Back - Hecates (3 MAB) - Romanus (4 MAB)
Waist - Oneiros Sash (4 MAB)
Legs - Wicca (4 MAB) / Teal (3 MAB)
Feet - Theurgia Clogs (4 MAB)

This wont make them compete with BLM, but if you wanted to, you could buil a magical damage set.

Proving that you missed the point in this first place is not needed as someone else did so.

My Current set I use:

Surya's Staff +3 (Light damage) / Verse Strap +1 / -- / Witchstone
-- / Saevus Pendant / Novio Earring / Hecate's Earring
Twilight Cloak / Eradico Mitts / Strendu Ring / Aquasoul Ring
Searing Cape / Oneiros Sash / Augur's Brais /Marduk's Crackows

In total gives me +35% light damage potency, +57 Magic Attack Bonus and +29 MND. Fully solace charged Holy II does about 2k to trash mobs and ~1.3k to higer tier voidwatch (if they don't have an innate resistance).

Banish IV was on the test server for a while and it was completely terrible as you would expect, don't think we need it.

[Economizer]

*Until I can be bothered downloading FFXIcalc again I'll be referring to http://members.shaw.ca/pizza_steve/cure/Cure_Calculator.html

While Steve's Cure Calculator can be accurate most of the time, it doesn't have information about new caps, and when SE changes the formulas it will be completely out of date. It probably won't be maintained either, I recently emailed him based on the contact info and I received a nice reply explaining that he hasn't played in a while.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Don't you think it's highly unusual for the premier healing class to cure LESS than a jack-of-all-trades?

--

(don't try to do the math on scholar getting Cure V, it's almost rediculous)

You could get higher than RDM if you replaced Emp body, but losing ~24 points worth of potency for a ~400 SS is worth it. That in my opinion is WHM's biggest bonus, yeah huge cures are nice but Cureskin is where they trump any healing class. It changes a simple cure spell into a form of damage mitigation, that and as you've said their MP control now is what puts WHM so far ahead were RDM or SCH to get Cure V they still couldn't keep up.

I also personally find it insulting an Enfeebler/Enhancer/Melee is inferior to WHM in those fields -merits. I can't congratulate the developers on their dodgy jobs creation.

---

I assumed it would be, they can get near Cure V potency with Cure IV so I dread to think what kind of potency Cure V would be, no doubt massively superior to Cure VI.

[Aleste]

--- SCH cure V numbers >.>;;;;;
Because, why the hell not. Unfortunately SCH is capable of maintaining capped cure potency without using belt/back, which allows us to fully utilise weather for additional potency.

Arka IV, Verse Grip+1, ---, Mana Ampulla
Savant+2, Fylgia+1, Roundel, Neptune Pearl
Heka, Augur, Aquasoul, Aquasoul
Twilight, Korin, Rubeus, Calm Pigaches

99SCH/WHM (+merits)
412 + 5 Skill (LA)
94 + 68 MND
76 + 0 VIT

0 + 50% Potency
10% Light obi
5% Twilight Cape
60% Enhanced Rapture

734 (pre-potency) -> 1174 (rapture) -> 1761 (+potency) -> 2025 (+obi/cape)
I'm not 100% sure that is where rapture is stacked though~

Excluding rapture timer, replace savants bonnet +2 with Ruach Crown (+12) MND gives a resultant of ~1275

[Daniel_Hatcher]

--- SCH cure V numbers >.>;;;;;
Because, why the hell not. Unfortunately SCH is capable of maintaining capped cure potency without using belt/back, which allows us to fully utilise weather for additional potency.

Arka IV, Verse Grip+1, ---, Mana Ampulla
Savant+2, Fylgia+1, Roundel, Neptune Pearl
Heka, Augur, Aquasoul, Aquasoul
Twilight, Korin, Rubeus, Calm Pigaches

99SCH/WHM (+merits)
412 + 5 Skill (LA)
94 + 68 MND
76 + 0 VIT

0 + 50% Potency
10% Light obi
5% Twilight Cape
60% Enhanced Rapture

734 (pre-potency) -> 1174 (rapture) -> 1761 (+potency) -> 2025 (+obi/cape)
I'm not 100% sure that is where rapture is stacked though~

Excluding rapture timer, replace savants bonnet +2 with Ruach Crown (+12) MND gives a resultant of ~1275

/Smile and there is why SCH especially wont get Cure V.

[Retsujo]

I had originally read Cids' clever wordplay to imply that WHM getting Banish 4 would be akin to RDM (and SCH) getting Cure V. Of course SE specifically told us that RDM (or SCH) will not be getting Cure V, however, this is where the difference lies.

WHMs were given Banish4 and ga-3 on the test server for a month or so, only to have it removed with this quote:



AND



The implication is that we will be getting them eventually~



*Until I can be bothered downloading FFXIcalc again I'll be referring to http://members.shaw.ca/pizza_steve/cure/Cure_Calculator.html

We all understand that the Banish spells are coming. That's what this thread is supposed to be about. What I was trying to imply, which you missed both in my post and the guy I was backing up, is that the calculations and follow through of other jobs using Cure V has nothing to do with Banish IV or ga III. It's completely derailing the thread, and there are other threads it can be discussed in.

WHMs wanting Banish IV already, instead of waiting, because it's been several levels since our last Banish spell.
Vs
Other jobs wanting Cure V because it's been several levels since their last Cure spell.

It has nothing to do with the complications or possible outcomes of Cure V on other jobs. It was just a sarcastic jab at the similarity. Let's stop with the Cure V and get back on the Banishes :D

[Krysten]

Agreed its common knowledge that not every WHM wants to play it robot like everyone else and they already have given us nukes all i want is them to continue down that. not asking to be a Blm they do need change dmg output for Banish IV tho (since it was i the test server at one point) it would have do be substancial over III (think the differance from Blizz III vs Blizz IV)

[Badieh]

In addition to Banish 4, 5, Banishga 3, and Banishara, they also should change the damage output for cure spells on the undead. I think what players are looking for now that has changed from the beginning of FF11 is more flexibility in each jobs. SE seems to want to maintain the "1 job has 1 specific role" while players want "1 job to have many roles."

[saevel]

They need to just add Banish IV / V and Banishga III already. Put them on the same level as Aero tier nukes. It won't turn WHM into anything remotely resembling a nuking job, their recasts are too long for that to happen. What it does is give WHM a little more versatility, there are some NM's that are weak to holy damage and this would be useful on them.

And in the end, it's White Mage, the masters of White Magic. It's only fitting they get some sort of light element nuke.

[raps1355]

I dont understand why ppl are frightened if whm got stronger nukes for the light element, after all they are supposed to be the light mage. Its one element out of 8 yet most other magic able jobs have access to the other 7. The banish series is also bad mp for damage and recast times are not great either. Even if banish 5 were to do 2k damage that would be abyssmal compared to a blm who can push out 7k damage not to mention alternating several elements.

[Horadrim]

In addition to Banish 4, 5, Banishga 3, and Banishara, they also should change the damage output for cure spells on the undead. I think what players are looking for now that has changed from the beginning of FF11 is more flexibility in each jobs. SE seems to want to maintain the "1 job has 1 specific role" while players want "1 job to have many roles."

Exactly... to the extreme detriment of jobs that desperately need alternative roles... like PUP.

[Krysten]

Still waiting on those Nukes!! cmon SE let us WHM have some fun!! MORE LIGHT NUKING SPELLS!!!!

[MDenham]

Banishga III... and Holyja (400MP, casts in like 2sec, AoE and obviously works like the BLM -ja spells other than being light element).

That's all I ask for in the way of new WHM nukes. (And then throw Stoneskin II into the game with like a 1000HP cap.)

[Krysten]

Banishja would be more realistic seeing holy always been a single hit. they really need let whm have some fun with new light nukes lol.

[Blah]

Gosh I've been thinking about it and I...I think you guys have a point. Overall white mage isn't just suppose to be king/queen of healing magic they're suppose to be king/queen of divine magic. Which should most definitely be much more than just banish and holy. Why they have only that is beyond me. *scratches head*

[Ophannus]

I miss KRT Bone parties when WHM would MB Banish III off light skillchains for like 1600-1700 and then double MB with Holy.