Dynamis Proc Rates

[Nynja]

I know this is probably going to fall between the cracks and not get noticed...so lets try to get it noticed!!

Right now, Dynamis is all about being either dnc/xxx or xxx/dnc. WS procs and magic procs are so few and far between, that no one cares to use them, cuz its a waste of time. In turn, this leads to massive congestion of JA mobs and all the WS/MA mobs are left alone. Perhaps it would be feasible to raise the proc rate of WS/MA mobs?


and hey, while you're at it, if you feel like it...lower drop rate on EP mobs and up the drop rate on EM/T mobs so people actually bother doing those instead :) Encourage party mechanics instead of encouraging solo play!

[Kriegsgott]

and hey, while you're at it, if you feel like it...lower drop rate on EP mobs and up the drop rate on EM/T mobs so people actually bother doing those instead :) Encourage party mechanics instead of encouraging solo play!

this would be awesome!

[setting]

totaly agree

[Ihnako]

I agree with you

[Concerned4FFxi]

Higher drops on higher level mobs makes sense, but will anyone listenj? This was mentioned before that groups don't bother camping higher mobs and crowd the easy camps where people solo.

[Ihnako]

In case we'r talking about a significant higher droprate people will spread across the zone.

[Nynja]

Higher drops on higher level mobs makes sense, but will anyone listenj? This was mentioned before that groups don't bother camping higher mobs and crowd the easy camps where people solo.

Then you bring it up again, and again...till you either get a "fk off were not changing it" response, or a response of change.

[Insaniac]

WSs need no less than a 50% proc rate. Magic needs the same proc rate as JAs. Yes that would make procing either of these pretty easy but that's the point. No one is going to stop JA proccing if it's still hands down the best way to proc. EP drop rate should not be lowered but the higher level mobs could be changed to drop at least 2 currency and up to 5 when you proc. I also believe the spawn time in dynamis should be lowered to 3 minutes. Certain mobs (looking at you urganites) need to be either removed or have their AI changed so that they become viable farming targets. Some camps need more mobs. Specifically the Nightmare Rocs in qufim. Making a camp with 3 mobs doesn't make much sense at all. Oh and cities/northlands should be made as friendly for farming as dreamlands. TE placement and lack of good camps is a pretty big problem in old zones.

Unfortunately,.. BARANCE!!! I'm sure ALL of these things were put in place to artificially control the supply of currency no matter how many people want to do dynamis and have pretty much a 0% chance of being changed. The only good thing coming for dynamis is that the EM-T mobs are changing to DC mobs when we hit 99 which will open those camps to solos and duos if ALL of the EP options are taken.

[Ihnako]

While I disagree with your idea about the amount of the WS-proc rate, I'll agree with the droprate EP vs higher level mobs.
A global repop of 3 minutes for all Dynamis zones would be interesting but only in case SE did changed the proc and drop rate and the zones would be congested even after 3 or 4 month after they changed it.

[Brolic]

Unfortunately,.. BARANCE!!! I'm sure ALL of these things were put in place to artificially control the supply of currency no matter how many people want to do dynamis and have pretty much a 0% chance of being changed. The only good thing coming for dynamis is that the EM-T mobs are changing to DC mobs when we hit 99 which will open those camps to solos and duos if ALL of the EP options are taken.

this is the only thing that matters, this frees up almost the entirety of dynamis for a duo team.

[Insaniac]

While I disagree with your idea about the amount of the WS-proc rate, I'll agree with the droprate EP vs higher level mobs.
A global repop of 3 minutes for all Dynamis zones would be interesting but only in case SE did changed the proc and drop rate and the zones would be congested even after 3 or 4 month after they changed it. What do you disagree with? To compete with JA procs you need to have a near 100% chance of procing before the mob dies. You get that with magic but it might take you 5 minutes. With WSs you are limited by mob HP and most 1h DDs will only get off 2-3 WSs before a mobs dies just from melee swings. I guess you could bring a sam with a soboro or quint spear but that's not an option for most since they DB or solo.

[Alderin]

Or simply make the higher level mobs EP or the EP mobs DC/EM/T.. Level the playing field so people have options to change camps rather then all being cluster f'd around one camp..

Also perhaps re-looking at Valkrum Dunes proc times as currently the grouping I believe is a little weighed too heavily on farming Hipo's. You have either sheep that sleepga (terrible for a solo'er), sabotender's that use 10,000 needles? (I can't confirm this but have been wise enough not to bother trying) or Hipo's which don't have any really devastating tp moves.

This causes a huge amount of congestion during 8-16:00 (JA proc times) around Hipo's in Valkrum.

[Ihnako]

What do you disagree with? To compete with JA procs you need to have a near 100% chance of procing before the mob dies. You get that with magic but it might take you 5 minutes. With WSs you are limited by mob HP and most 1h DDs will only get off 2-3 WSs before a mobs dies just from melee swings. I guess you could bring a sam with a soboro or quint spear but that's not an option for most since they DB or solo.
A WS-proc rate at the same level as JA would be good enough. Every DD can lower the amount of his/her weapon swings and WS. At least with the right sub.

[Insaniac]

The WS proc rate is already about the same or maybe a little higher than JA procs and it doesn't work well.

[Babygyrl]

ws and magic proc rates are not really that bad at all magic is easy just spam dia.. WS the only issue is the mob needs to live long enough to proc.. and if your fighting Ep's thats not always the case, mob may die in 2 ws's.. Me and my husband have noticed procs for ws are pretty easy on fighting T mobs. I would not complain about changing the proc rates though.. knowing SE's track record instead of making it easier to proc with ws and magic, they'd just make it freaking harder to ja proc.. because they hate us :(

[Byrth]

Actually, you're wrong. JA proccing is better than magic and WS proccing because you can do it faster.

You can expect to take about 2 minutes per monster proc spamming Dia.
You can expect to take about 2 minutes per monster proc spamming WSs
You can expect to take about 30~45 seconds per monster proc spamming /DNC JAs.

That's the disparity that should be fixed. SE seems to have designed magic and WS proc rates with AoE proccing in mind, but they never adjusted them when they nerfed AoE proccing. I used to Aeolian Edge proc city monster pulls instead of JA proccing because it net me about the same currency and let me use camps that JA proccers avoid. I could see SE believing a BLM/RDM spamming -aga III/Sleepga or would do the same thing.

In CoP zones AoE proccing is nerfed and they haven't buffed the single target proc rate enough to make it feasible. This leaves us with three sets of EP monsters per time window, which is insufficient to deal with demand.

[Ihnako]

Actually, you're wrong. JA proccing is better than magic and WS proccing because you can do it faster.

You can expect to take about 2 minutes per monster proc spamming Dia.
You can expect to take about 2 minutes per monster proc spamming WSs
You can expect to take about 30~45 seconds per monster proc spamming /DNC JAs.

...

Actually the proc rates are (last seen) JA 20%, WS 15% and MA 5%
Regarding you'r 2 Minutes for Dia and WS... you can also spam 5 minutes JAs before you get the proc. But in general you'll proc within 2 minutes.
Spaming WS on a mob is easy - proc a JA/MA mob and use him for TP gain. Oh - that's a party strategy. ;p

PS: Several mage jobs can spam dia, poison and every low mp consuming / fast ready spell

[Byrth]

Well, do the math like this:
Violent Flourish - 20 second recast
Step - 15 second recast
Wild Flourish - 30 second recast

So in 30 seconds, you use four JAs. In 40 seconds, you use 5 JAs and (on average) proc the monster according to the numbers you just gave.

Dia's recast is about 6 seconds, but lets assume you aren't recast limited. It takes about ~4 seconds to cast it and recover from the post-casting lock-out, which means it would take ~80 seconds per Dia proc. If you were recast limited, that's how I was getting 120 seconds.

If you have enough Haste, you can WS once every 30 seconds. I would personally put the WS proc rate a little higher than JAs (I thought 25%), but I can't be entirely sure. Point is, that's still not proccing as fast as JAs.



As far as multiple players? Sure, but you can bring multiples of anything and it doesn't change the above math.

[Insaniac]

Multiple JA procers compounds the advantage JA procs have over others and I would put magic lower than 5% and yeah I would say WS procs are probably more like 20%. Sometimes when I have no other option I will try to magic proc a mob until a JA or WS mob pops and it has worked 3 times in god knows how many tries. That was spamming cheap spells not just waiting on dia timers. They could do something with spells to limit our ability to spam anything we had and increase the proc rate drastically and that would be fine. Maybe base a spells chance of procing on it's casting time.

[Ihnako]

2 JAs in 30 sec and not 4... so to stress the calculator you can do 8 JAs in 2 minutes.
Within 2 minutes you can cast 12 times Dia + ~12 times Poison.
WSing is a bit different since you need TP.

[Byrth]

Time 0: Presto
Time 1: Step
Time 2: Violent Flourish
Time 3: Wild Flourish
Time 16: Step
Time 22: Violent Flourish

So that's 5 proc JAs in 22 seconds. It costs you 20 TP and generates 10 (Violent Flourish). So you need to have one attack round between Wild Flourish and the second Step.

[Ihnako]

You can unsubscribe Presto from the JS list cause it's not made on the mob and you won't get a mob staggered by doing it.
That leave
01 Steps (15 seconds)
02 VF (20 seconds)
03 WF (30 seconds)
16 Steps
22 VF
31 Steps
33 WF
42 VF
46 Steps
Time is up
61 Steps
62 VF
63 WF
a.s.o.

4x Steps, 3x VF, 2x WF = 9 JAs not 10, 11 or 12

Let's check WHM - Dia (cast 1 second, recast 5 seconds)
01 Dia
07 Dia
13 Dia
19 Dia
25 Dia
31 Dia
37 Dia
43 Dia
49 Dia
55 Dia
Time is up
10 x Dia
Let's sub RDM, BLM, DRK - Poison (cast 1 second, recast 5 seconds) and you can easily double your chances.
Put stone I into your calculation and I bet you'll get ~25 chances within 1 Minute. (And your MP pool is drained rapidely)

[Byrth]

Okay, so we agree that on average you'll proc monsters in 22 seconds with JAs and about two minutes with magic?

[Lokithor]

I've only done solo dynamis farming for -1 items but the coins are a nice benefit. Seems to me that if all you want is coins and you're solo, dnc/nin would be the best. With /nin you can spam the elemental wheel every 30 seconds. Too bad I'm looking mainly for the -1 item so prefer to be on thf/nin, which can't really do anything for JA procs.

An unrelated question. I'm farming Dyna-Bubu for thf hands -1. I have no trouble getting 4/5 TE mobs but really don't know what NM gives the 5th. The wiki sites say that it is a random NM but I don't know how to identify / find it. Any advice? The difference between 4/5 and 5/5 is very dramatic in my experience.

[Nynja]

Lets presume you open every fight with 3 FM on average.


You can unsubscribe Presto from the JS list cause it's not made on the mob and you won't get a mob staggered by doing it.
That leave
01 Steps (15 seconds) 4FM
02 VF (20 seconds) 3 FM
03 WF (30 seconds) 1FM
16 Steps 2FM
22 VF 1 FM
31 Steps 2 FM
33 WF 0 FM
42 VF (HOW ??!!??!?!?!?!?!?!?)
46 Steps

thats why we use presto...

[Ihnako]

Okay, so we agree that on average you'll proc monsters in 22 seconds with JAs and about two minutes with magic?
No cause doing 9 JA's within a minute and casting 25 spells per minute can and will lead to the same result.
The mob is staggered or not. The likelyhood was perviously expressed by a chance of 20% or 5% per attemp.
You can stagger a mob with the first JA but you could also stagger a mob with the 1,000th JA.
It just seems to be better with JAs cause they don't need MP and you can keep the mob sleeping.

[Ihnako]

Lets presume you open every fight with 3 FM on average.
thats why we use presto...


01 Steps (15 seconds) 5 FM
02 VF (20 seconds) 4 FM
03 WF (30 seconds) 2FM
16 Steps 4 FM
22 VF 3 FM
31 Steps 5 FM
33 WF 3 FM
42 VF 2 FM
46 Steps 4 FM
...
Ups... Level DNC ;p since DNC has Presto at Lv77 and not /DNC
In case I have 3 FM at start Presto would be a waste to use since maximum FM is 5 and not 6.

[Nynja]

No cause doing 9 JA's within a minute and casting 25 spells per minute can and will lead to the same result.

Yeah...I've chaincasted dia/stone on a hippogryph for 2 minutes without a proc...and first JA when time changed proced it.

[saevel]

Well, do the math like this:
Violent Flourish - 20 second recast
Step - 15 second recast
Wild Flourish - 30 second recast

So in 30 seconds, you use four JAs. In 40 seconds, you use 5 JAs and (on average) proc the monster according to the numbers you just gave.

Dia's recast is about 6 seconds, but lets assume you aren't recast limited. It takes about ~4 seconds to cast it and recover from the post-casting lock-out, which means it would take ~80 seconds per Dia proc. If you were recast limited, that's how I was getting 120 seconds.

If you have enough Haste, you can WS once every 30 seconds. I would personally put the WS proc rate a little higher than JAs (I thought 25%), but I can't be entirely sure. Point is, that's still not proccing as fast as JAs.



As far as multiple players? Sure, but you can bring multiples of anything and it doesn't change the above math.

WTF are you smoking. Dia's cast time is 1s recast is 5s, not counting FC / haste. Poison is also 1s cast 5s recast, you basically alternate those two and possibly throw in a blind. There is no "post cast lock out" just your stuck in an animation if your heavily loaded with FC / haste. What you need to do is change gear and make your character blink, it'll immediately remove the animation lock. At the most you have a 60 unit delay stuck in there because it'll accept another action command. I've stood there and spammed Dia -> Poison and proced magic monsters as RDM/DNC. We went there cause a hoard of BST/DNC's had taken over the JA proc camps, actually got better drops from doing magic because we didn't have to fight over pops.

[Ihnako]

Yeah...I've chaincasted dia/stone on a hippogryph for 2 minutes without a proc...and first JA when time changed proced it.And we've (3 DNC /DNC) Chain-JAed a mob for 3 minutes without a proc. What does it say? A chance is a chane and only in eternity we'll know if it's 20% or 19,58221% or U = I / U.

[Nynja]

And we've (3 DNC /DNC) Chain-JAed a mob for 3 minutes without a proc. What does it say? A chance is a chane and only in eternity we'll know if it's 20% or 19,58221% or U = I / U.

Sounds to me like your mob went past JA time and you didnt notice...

[saevel]

Sounds to me like your mob went past JA time and you didnt notice...

Sounds the same for your magic mob.

[Nynja]

Sounds the same for your magic mob.

[23:44:27]Vermy starts casting Dia on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:44:31]Vermy starts casting Cure IV on Nynja.
[23:44:36]Vermy starts casting Stone on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:44:41]Vermy starts casting Dia on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:44:45]Vermy starts casting Stone on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:44:49]Vermy starts casting Dia on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:44:53]Vermy starts casting Stone on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:44:57]The Nightmare Hippogryph readies Nihility Song.
[23:44:58]Vermy starts casting Dia on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:45:00]Kehhiko's Haste effect wears off.
[23:45:03]Vermy starts casting Haste on Nynja.
[23:45:03]The Nightmare Hippogryph uses Nihility Song.
[23:45:03]1 of Kehhiko's effects disappears!
[23:45:08]Vermy starts casting Dia on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:45:13]Vermy starts casting Stone on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:45:18]Vermy starts casting Dia on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:45:23]Vermy starts casting Stone on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:45:27]Vermy starts casting Dia on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:45:31]Vermy starts casting Cure IV on Nynja.
[23:45:37]Vermy starts casting Stone on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:45:41]Vermy starts casting Dia on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:45:44]Vermy starts casting Stone on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:45:48]Vermy starts casting Dia on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:45:53]Vermy starts casting Stone on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:45:57]Vermy starts casting Dia on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:46:01]Vermy starts casting Stone on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:46:06]Vermy starts casting Dia on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:46:09]Vermy starts casting Stone on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:46:14]Vermy starts casting Dia on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:46:19]Vermy starts casting Cure IV on Nynja.
[23:46:24]Vermy starts casting Dia on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:46:29]Vermy starts casting Stone on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:46:33]Vermy starts casting Dia on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:46:37]Vermy starts casting Stone on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:46:42]Vermy starts casting Dia on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:46:45]Vermy starts casting Stone on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:46:50]Vermy starts casting Dia on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:46:55]Vermy starts casting Stone on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:47:00]Vermy starts casting Dia on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:47:04]Vermy starts casting Stone on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:47:09]Vermy starts casting Dia on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:47:13]Vermy starts casting Stone on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:47:17]Vermy starts casting Dia on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:47:21]Vermy starts casting Stone on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:47:26]Vermy starts casting Dia on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:47:30]Vermy starts casting Stone on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:47:34]Vermy starts casting Dia on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:47:38]Vermy starts casting Haste on Nynja.
[23:47:44]Vermy starts casting Dia on the Nightmare Hippogryph.
[23:47:48]Vermy starts casting Cure IV on Nynja.
[23:47:53]Vermy starts casting Dia on the Nightmare Hippogryph.

---TIME CHANGE---

[23:48:06]Kehhiko's attack staggers the fiend!
[23:48:06]Time left: (0:00:29)
[23:48:06]Unable to use job ability.
[23:48:06]Kehhiko uses Haste Samba.
[23:48:06]Kehhiko gains the effect of Haste Samba.
[23:48:07]The Nightmare Hippogryph is out of range.
[23:48:07]Kehhiko uses Box Step.
[23:48:07]The Nightmare Hippogryph is afflicted with Sluggish Daze (lv.1).
[23:48:08]The Nightmare Hippogryph is too far away.

Feel free to use one of those vanadiel time calculators to assess gametime. I live in EST timezone, and that was on October 30.

[saevel]

That sound you hear, its the sound of the whoosh that just happened.

[ericnuke]

If the new changes to nyzul isle holds across the board we will all be looking for groups to do events again.

[Nynja]

That sound you hear, its the sound of the whoosh that just happened.

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/2852/safeface2ap4.jpg

[Ihnako]

Sounds to me like your mob went past JA time and you didnt notice...
I never mentioned that we were in a dreamland zone. The specific mob was in one of the cities and they where 24/7 JA