Lv. 99 Automaton Weapon Skills

[Shinron-PUP]

Since no one has seemingly posted anything regarding this topic as of recently, I figured that I would post in hopes that the dev team could send a little information our way regarding any new Automaton weapon skills for Harliquin/Stormwaker if they know anything. I would also like to create a place where we can discuss possible weapon skills for Lv.99. Although Sharpshot and Valor Edge recently got a new weapon skill, feel free to talk about new ones for them too. We definitely need something that expresses the automaton's true stregnth at level 99 for each pet.

[Theytak]

Given how absolutely horrible most of the new WS are turning out to be, I'd vote we wait a few months before asking for new ws, until they decide they don't need to nerf everything into oblivious before it even gets added

[Zhronne]

Do we really need even more complicated maneuver-triggered automaton WS options?
Seems to me the current options are good enough.

I'd be for new lv99 new WS only if:
1) they get prioritized over normal WSs and used no matter the maneuver you have up
2) they are decent enough to make you want to use them instead of the current ones


In all honesty I don't really see the need for new automaton WS, I'd rather have them focus on other things before thinking about that.

[Kristal]

I want new WSs too, but I think we'll be too busy adjusting to the PUP v2.0 for a while for it to matter.

[Kaisha]

I'd be fine for new WS if they adjusted it to work through our pet menu rather than mucking with getting specific maneuvers up that may or may not hamper the damage the WS may do.

[Shinron-PUP]

I'd be fine for new WS if they adjusted it to work through our pet menu rather than mucking with getting specific maneuvers up that may or may not hamper the damage the WS may do.


Do we really need even more complicated maneuver-triggered automaton WS options?
Seems to me the current options are good enough.

I'd be for new lv99 new WS only if:
1) they get prioritized over normal WSs and used no matter the maneuver you have up
2) they are decent enough to make you want to use them instead of the current ones


In all honesty I don't really see the need for new automaton WS, I'd rather have them focus on other things before thinking about that.

These are things in which we should probably discuss then.
1. I know there was a lot of talk about creating a (4th maneuver) but that only effects your weapon skills and stays on for 15~30 minutes so that you don't have to change your maneuvers around to prioritize the correct weapon skill. The only problem with this is that Flame Holder would become overly powerful for Sharp Shot and Valor Edge. I think what they want use to do to optimize flame holder is inhibitor, so adding something like that would take away from the difficulty.
* I think they were also talking about making weapon skills accessible through a pet command menu... I remember something on this back when they were talking about splitting up magic timers... If someone can find that post, would be great.
2. I doubt they will make a weapon skill weaker than the previous ones, although they did at first with armor shatterer in comparison to armor piercer, but they fixed it, and that's something we can monitor on the test server.

[Zhronne]

I admit I haven't throroughfully played on my beloved PUP a lot over the last year... just been collecting gear but never had many chances to use it. But still, do we *need* new WS?
Why would we want more? Because the current ones aren't good enough? Just to get new cool animations? For the sake of variation?

I'd rather see more fixes to JAs, new attachments and more UI elements for PUP (multiple attachments sets that you can save/store, automaton WS menu) rather than seeing them spend resources to realize new WSs just to give us "cool animations" when we really have no need for them.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me the current WSs options are pretty nice even outside of Abyssea? Supposing I'm not wrong, I stand by my position.

[Komori]

The last WS for PUP should totally at the very least have an animation with the master and auto doing moves together, I think it would be cool for a combined type thing somehow.

I wouldn't know how to make it happen, but as I said, within the animation alone it would be kinda epic in my mind.

[Dfoley]

We dont need new ones. Sharpshoot already has one of the most powerful weapon skills outside of abyssea and its got fantastic skill chain properties.

1) So we dont need dmg
2) we dont need better skill chains

New animations? Sure it would be nice to have actual weapon skill animations for pets, but that is more of a want, then a need.

3) We would like cooler animations

Do we really want to add another weapon skill to the currently broken system of muking with maneuvers? No, a resounding N>O>. Any pup you talk to will say the same exact thing. We all hate how stupid triggering weapon skills is and how it shouldn't be tied to maneuvers at all.

4) Do we want another new combination of maneuvers required to trigger the next set of ws? No



Would it make sense to add new weapon skills? Only if they were more damaging then previous ones since the automaton inate prioritizes the highest level WS. If they add higher level ones that aren't more damaging with the current system, all you end up with is a weaker pet. Which leaves them the option of adding stronger ws (see 1 and 2, already not needed nor would it be balanced) or reworking the trigger mechanics so that we can have more control and select the ws (not likely we will see much more hard code revision any time soon thanks to how much time they just spent on pup alone.

[Zhronne]

So much win in your post Dfoley

/kneel

[Tesahade]

I believe the OP's intent was to talk more about Harliquin/Stormwaker so far I've seen some fair arguments about why we don't need new weapons skill for SS and VE...but come on your telling me you don't cringe at the sit of "Genta readies Magic Mortar" when your pet is at 100% hp

I feel we don't need a new ws for SS or VE, but, I'd love to move on from the lvl71,74,75 Magic mortar to something a little more of a "mage ws" something that lowers magic evasion or Restores mp like Spirit Taker and Star/Moon light would be a nice addition and as long as i Genta is actually using his tp to do something other then 0-200dmg

[Shinron-PUP]

I believe the OP's intent was to talk more about Harliquin/Stormwaker so far I've seen some fair arguments about why we don't need new weapons skill for SS and VE...but come on your telling me you don't cringe at the sit of "Genta readies Magic Mortar" when your pet is at 100% hp

I feel we don't need a new ws for SS or VE, but, I'd love to move on from the lvl71,74,75 Magic mortar to something a little more of a "mage ws" something that lowers magic evasion or Restores mp like Spirit Taker and Star/Moon light would be a nice addition and as long as i Genta is actually using his tp to do something other then 0-200dmg

You nailed my intent. I want to see something added to the Harliquin/Stormwaker pet more than I do for the Sharpshot and Valor Edge. What I would like to see to be honest is a weapon skill that deals damage and also cures back the pets HP similar to White Mage's new weapon skill and the Cannibal Blade from Valor Edge but just stronger. Harliquin is becoming a pretty formidable tank because of the added stregnth from armor plate II/I, Shock absorber, and the new spell Dread Spikes (Obtained from wearing Harliquin body and BLM head.) With this, Harliquin pet could inch more towards the current day Paladin and Valor Edge more towards warrior, where that's seemingly where they're going with Valor Edge.

What they need to do is separate the Harliquin and stromwaker's weapon skills into two branches after Magic Moarter because, quite frankly, they kind of are two different pets. You can even take notice to the stances where Harliquin has more of a fighter like stance and Stormwaker have a magic ready stance. With this being done, the harliquin can tank on the idea of a more pure mixture of all the pets and the Stormwaker can get more mage like weapon skills like Magic Evasion/Defense down ones as Tesahade brilliantly stated.

Weapon skills are a great opportunity to adding advantageous side attributes that allows for the pet to DD or tank better, so I believe this should be something added regardless of the contreversy over the maneuver system being a problem.

-- By the way, It is good that we're discussing the fact that the maneuver system is bad for weapon skills because that means that the dev team might forward this to Square Enix, so please keeps discussing this.

*They could even add aftermaths to pet weapon skills like
String Shredder -->Aftermath Physical damage taken down or ocassionally attack twice/thrice.

Magic Moarter --> Aftermath: Magic Attack Bonus, occasional quick magic, or halves MP consumption on next spells for a set period of time.

[Zhronne]

the new Magic Mortar is not as bad as the current one.
Plus you don't need a new WS to solve that "issue", a menu that allows us to select WSs from there instead than from manouvers would already solve that and many other ones.

[Krysten]

need or not i vote YES on new WS magic motar is meh. some pups always say what we have is good enough but im on the wagon that its never good enough keep adding stuff, people who are satisfied will go about how they do and people who want new stuff can do it. id still prefer Valor to get some mp pools and cure but... that wont happen im sure. the new recast timers are amazing tho not doubt about it. too bad auto cant cast dread spikes on master tho XDDD

[brayen]

I would like to know and hope we do get more. Pup has come a long way and while the latest ws are ok, i would like to see the puppet's dmg come up more as i have always wished the pet to master dmg split would be more even (at least when both are meleeing)

{Perhaps make an attachment that unlocks them? sort of like the idea of relic/emp/mythic/WoEemp where you need the attachment to unlock it, with that in place it would be rational to make them very potent as it would be taking up a attachment slot and likewise you can make the triggers be the same as other WS since you can then add a variable to take into account for activation (if attachment x is present && frame Y, then new ws, else old weaker ws)}