New Blood Pacts needs a do-over

[Malamasala]

Heavenward Howl:
I tried this at 21% moon. My assumption would be that the buff given would be a "hp/mp drain" buff, and that the chance of HP absorption would be higher closer to full moon, and the chance of MP absorption would be higher closer to new moon. I buffed myself with it and proceeded to thwack crabs in Qufim. The only type of drain I ever got was MP drain. When I put the buff on myself, I got a single buff, but couldn't tell what it did because of there being no flavor text for the buff. It seems like the buff that I got wasn't an "hp/mp drain" buff, but just an "mp drain" buff because of the low moon phase. I can't be certain, but if this is the case then I think it's better than having a "hp/mp drain" buff that randomly drains either one; this would allow me to better plan when to use it. On the other hand, the MP drain side of this ability is worthless. I was getting 8-10 mp back per hit at 497 skill. I can only think of one job that would benefit from mp drain, BLU. PLD has enlight, and you cant have 2 enspells active. DRK has endark, the same thing applies. These jobs would prefer to have their enbuff over enaspir. BLU is the only job with mp that melees that doesn't have an enspell. It's the only job that this would be useful for in endgame situations (I'll say this so no one throws melee mage jobs at me as a counterargument). I would suggest removing the MP drain part of this ability completely, it's not strong enough (you'd think at 497 skill you'd get a decent return seeing as how ifrit's enfire does about 44 damage with that skill level), and it's not useful in endgame situations.


Over the last 5 years or so I've attempted my best to explain that moon phase design is flawed and need to be abolished. It doesn't quite help that you add new abilities based on moon.

Basing things on the moon is the most ridiculous design ever, and most fitting it is done to SMN, which is the worst designed MMO class in the history of gaming.

What it boils down to is that you'll hit /clock and see "67% moon" and then you'll know that it is exactly one and a half real life week left before the Ward is useful for the battle you are going to do in 5 minutes.

Do you ask your party to "wait, in 1.5 weeks we can do this fight since right now I'm a little weak"? No, instead you treat the Ward as it doesn't exist for the next 1.5 weeks.

Fenrir and Diabolos both need to be functioning based on things you can affect.

I understand you want to claim it is story based and Fenrir is closely related to the moon, but don't forget that Fenrir single handedly destroy the whole Yagudo army as well, so it should be dealing about 1000 damage per hit to fit the story. If you can avoid giving us overpowered 1000 damage Fenrirs due to balance of gameplay, you can avoid moon phases for unbalanced Ward pacts and make the avatar actually balanced and functioning.

As we all are aware, an aspir effect is usually not effective in this game. So I'll agree with the quoted person that it would probably be better to just always be HP drain and never fluctuate with Moon phases. Unless you can manage to tweak the system to give both at the same time, and making it a special new ability instead of a copy of DNC sambas.



Pavor Nocturnus:
Aka Death. My first thoughts on this are that it's awsome, and a long time coming, especially after how Odin's 2hr death is lackluster (e.g. blow a ton of mp only to have another mob walk in the way, screw with his accuracy and end up missing the mob you were targeting initially). The great part about this ability is that we now have useful offensive ward pact (sorry Somnolence, you just aren't cutting it), so when it's time to pick a ward pact to use, and nothing else seems useful, we can slam this down for a chance at a KO. I havent tested it on NMs yet, but I need to stress this: this needs to be able to kill lower level NMs. I'm not talking about abyssea pop NMs, or HNMs. I'm talking about the dime-a-dozen worthless fodder mobs that are considered NMs in salvage, einherjar, etc. Either that, or stop labeling fodder mobs as NMs. It's annoying when you can't use Odin against lower level NMs in tough situations, simply because they're labeled as "NM"s.

A pact that can have no effect is a pact that does need to be added to the game. Nothing is worse than using your global pact timer and MP for nothing.

It is quite obvious this should work as the new Delfkutts Tower VW Eye. Death OR 400-500 damage. Making it a pact worth using ALWAYS instead of NEVER.

Please adjust this. It should be easy. Just make it deal damage when it "misses". Do that and Diabolos might actually be worth using. Currently I don't think I've used him outside of "for fun" the last year.

[Divinechild]

:) I play smn and I approve this message.

[Clou777]

would be better if they just added 2 new wards for fenrir, 1 for HP and 1 for MP and the potency of the drain is effected by moon phase

[Alhanelem]

would be better if they just added 2 new wards for fenrir, 1 for HP and 1 for MP and the potency of the drain is effected by moon phase
That's a good solution. But SE isn't well known for using the good solutions. :(

In all likelyhood they might have considered that idea, but wanted to save JA space (there is a limit on the number that can exist) or something so made it one ability when it would normally have made sense to have two.

Alternatively, maybe they feel they'd be stepping on DNC too much if they let you choose. IDK, it's stupid regardless of the reason.

I don't personally have a big issue with Diablos' pact. It's basically the only BP Ward that can really kill something. If Old Dynamis were still around, I'd say it might have been really worth having (when BLMs sleep a pull, use the death spell as a "free" shot at reducing the number of monsters and easing the pull without any real effort). Now, I can't think of a lot of opportunities to try something like that.

[Rukkirii]

There are no plans on removing the moon phase requirements for Fenrir's blood pacts at this time. These blood pact should be used when the moon phase is at that ripe timing when the effect is its highest. For the times when the desired effect cannot be utilized, it would be better to use another avatar’s blood pact or apply some technique for selection.

In regards to Pavor Nocturnus, we are looking into adjusting its accuracy. We are also looking into adding an effect in the case that the blood pact's main effect misses, however, it will not be direct damage.

[Alhanelem]

These blood pact should be used when the moon phase is at that ripe timing when the effect is its highest.You don't seem to understand that blood pacts that can basically only be used on certain days of the real life week are a waste of a blood pact slot.


For the times when the desired effect cannot be utilized, it would be better to use another avatar’s blood pact or apply some technique for selection.Thanks for the captain obvious statement here... The problem is that "those times" which you refer to is about 99% of the time. What are the odds that you're going to go "gosh, I wish I had HP drain on my attacks!" and you're not going to have a Dancer, or the moon isn't going to be high, or all of the planets in the galaxy haven't aligned with vana'diel?

We'd rather have a blood pact that can be used whenever the situation calls for it, not a blood pact that is only useful when the stars and planets align. Why add an ability to the game, and make it so hard to use that there's not a chance in hell anyone will ever actually use it?

Edit: Small, "don't kill the messenger" apology for Camate, I guess. When I said "you," I really meant "the Devs". I didn't mean for it to sound like I thought you were responsible for the silly decisions that are being made.

Edit: I should point out that Fenrir's other Ward abilities do not make you choose between one effect and another- they give you more of one thing and less of another depending on the moon, but you always get all of the effects (e.g. acc/evasion howl always boosts both, but the amounts depend on the moon phase; the stat boost howl always raises all stats, but the amounts depend on the moon phase. With this new BP, we get one effect or the other depending on the moon phase.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Can you please tell the devs effects attached to Moonphase and Time of Day are very bad ideas and basically kill the viability of such abilities? No one is going to go "Oh hey let's put off our fight for another three real life days so the moon phase is ripe!". It's a stupid mentality to have in regards to abilities in general.

[Byrth]

Those are some godawful translations you've got there, but we get the idea. You want to make absolutely sure no one will use them.

[Xellith]

There are no plans on removing the moon phase requirements for Fenrir's blood pacts at this time. These blood pact should be used when the moon phase is at that ripe timing when the effect is its highest. For the times when the desired effect cannot be utilized, it would be better to use another avatar’s blood pact or apply some technique for selection.

In regards to Pavor Nocturnus, we are looking into adjusting its accuracy. We are also looking into adding an effect in the case that the blood pact's main effect misses, however, it will not be direct damage.

It's things like this that are making me not renew my subscription.

[Feliciaa]

Stuff like this really is beyond bad design. It's flat out not understanding how your own game works....

Why would any player want a Blood Pact that is only good during a certain moon phase when it literally takes REAL LIFE DAYS for it to even happen?

Is this a troll or is the design team really that bad at designing meaningful summoner content?

[Alhanelem]

In regards to Pavor Nocturnus, we are looking into adjusting its accuracy.I hope this means "more accuracy." I really find these vague statements to be very frustrating.

It's an instant death effect, we don't expect it to work every time, but we do expect that over the long term, the very high MP cost for a BP Ward ability gives us some kind of return considering all the other things we could spend that timer on.

Can you at least verify that the ability requires/is made more accurate by the monster being asleep? My testing has suggested that the chance of it working is zero/nearly zero unless the monster is asleep, but maybe the description of this ability could be changed to something that actually describes what the ability does.

[Ciecle]

I know this may sound stupid, but... what if SE gives sch an spell that changes the moon phase for the character... kind of like storm spells to help alleviate some of the problems?... useing an example

"Lunar Phase I" new moon
"Lunar Phase 2" waxing cresent/Waning Cresent
"Lunar Phase 3" half moon
"Lunar Phase 4" Waxing/Waning
"Lunar Phase 5" full moon

or... have 1 spell that stacks 5 times...

and have a helix or healing spell based on the moon phase...

just a thought...

[Francisco]

Meh, I don't see the big deal... The Devs just want to have some sort of "working mythology" in their game.

If anything, maybe give the BPs a bonus during the right Moonphase, and fix whatever should be fixed a bit otherwise. Admittedly, I basically know nothing about Fenrir's BPs other than Eclipse Bite = Damage and some Howl move = Attack Boost or something.

[Alhanelem]

Well the thing is, the game already has more than enough Useless Useful Spells (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UselessUsefulSpell). We need less things that are useful once in a blue moon or things that would be cool if they worked but they usually don't.

[Rakshaka]

There are no plans on removing the moon phase requirements for Fenrir's blood pacts at this time. These blood pact should be used when the moon phase is at that ripe timing when the effect is its highest. For the times when the desired effect cannot be utilized, it would be better to use another avatar’s blood pact or apply some technique for selection.

In regards to Pavor Nocturnus, we are looking into adjusting its accuracy. We are also looking into adding an effect in the case that the blood pact's main effect misses, however, it will not be direct damage.

I personally don't have any problems with having the potency of an ability being tied to the moon phase. The thing that you have to keep in mind is that even in the "bad moon" phases, the ability should still be moderately useful, instead of useless. Please review Fenrir's pacts and update them to scale to levels past 75 (do this with the other avatars too, some have pacts that stop scaling past 75).

Regarding Pavor Nocturnus: If the ability "misses" and doesn't proc death, then how about adding a Curse debuff to the mob? The devs never gave us Cacodemonia (a curse effect which is used by many NPC Diabli). This would help make up for that. Also, it would allow this pact to still be useful against sleeping mobs. Situation 1, the mob dies. Situation 2, the mob gets cursed (and does damage in a round about way). In both situations the mob doesn't wake up (which seems to be the point of this BP). I think it would be fair to allow the curse effect to proc on NMs. Seeing as how the SMN job is really lackluster in the damage department these days vs other jobs, this would let us contribute more to high level NM fights.

[Windwhisper]

Thanks for 60 seconds of fun trying the new BPs out. they will (if unchanged) land on the list of "never used since first try" like Crimson Howl

[Kyte]

Crimson Howl actually isn't that bad now >_>;;

[Neisan_Quetz]

Isn't it replaced by inferno now though? On anything not fire resistant at least.

[Kyte]

You can potentially keep up both.

[Neisan_Quetz]

I do recognize the sentiment however, about how when it first came out it was pretty useless.

[hideka]

ok this seals it... SE officially DOES NOT KNOW what the summoner job is. period. end of story. ive come to the conclusion that this is how Square Enix has reverted to doing its job:
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m254/Hideka/9MCXV6.gif

dont ask me how i found the picture of a blindfolded asian buisness man throwing a dart, my guess is as good as yours. i just tell myself its real so that i can sleep better at night.

[hideka]

notice that the "miss" area is by default "buff Samurai" >_>

[saevel]

Be careful. They may decide to balance SMN by doubling the cost of all BP's to encourage you to use Fenrir more.

[Mightyg]

Seriously the dev replys lately have been ridiculous. Why design an ability that is only effective 20% of the time, assuming the enemy isn't dark or magic resistant or there aren't better alternatives for damage anyways. Ok so this move will be used once so people can see the animation and then never be bothered with again. Great thinking.

[Saiken253]

hahaha that's been my mentality since a year after i started playing this game lol~

[Dreamin]

Meh, I don't see the big deal... The Devs just want to have some sort of "working mythology" in their game.

If anything, maybe give the BPs a bonus during the right Moonphase, and fix whatever should be fixed a bit otherwise. Admittedly, I basically know nothing about Fenrir's BPs other than Eclipse Bite = Damage and some Howl move = Attack Boost or something.

Seriously, if you dont know anything about that BP, then why are you even bothering commenting on this?

Imagine, what happens if SE changes AF such that it's damages various on moon phase (or day/time). Would any MNK be consistently using AF anymore?

[Insaniac]

Let the era of the situational bullshit that is so situational no one will ever use it because it's not even very good under perfect conditions recommence!!

[kingfury]

There are no plans on removing the moon phase requirements for Fenrir's blood pacts at this time. These blood pact should be used when the moon phase is at that ripe timing when the effect is its highest. For the times when the desired effect cannot be utilized, it would be better to use another avatar’s blood pact or apply some technique for selection.

In regards to Pavor Nocturnus, we are looking into adjusting its accuracy. We are also looking into adding an effect in the case that the blood pact's main effect misses, however, it will not be direct damage.
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The negative reactions from the players at the lack of a viable compromise from the Devs that would allow SMNs to be more versatile more often are very valid ones. It is truly disappointing to hear the Devs respond in such a close minded way to players that simply want to enjoy their Avatars more often during play.

A possible "easy answer" would be to add new "Spiritual Planet Alignment" Job Abilities that SMNs could use that are similar to what SCHs use to change the weather around themselves and party members. These abilities could temporarily create a similar, yet less potent effect as that of say the actual Full Moon phase so SMNs could enjoy Fenrir more often.

It could also open up a deeper level of game play for SMNs depending on the number of Planet oriented effects that could be married to the Avatars. For example, another ability that magnified the SMN's "Spiritual Planet Alignment" with the Sun would bolster Ifrit's abilities and stats for a temporay duration(perhaps for a slightly longer duration compared to the SCH's weather spells for the cost of an extended recast timer). Depending on the other planets in the Vana'diel cosmos(i'm not sure if the planets are named after Earth's solar system planets or not), there could be an Avatar related equivalent for each. Other such special conditions could be added to balance the effects, but a solution it would be that could help ease the frustrations of the players.

Just need to be more willing to budge on these problems is all. The players shouldn't be encumbered for poor development choices of old.

[Cahlum]

I never had a problem with the moon phase blood pacts back in the day as I mainly used it for duoing with this NIN friend of mine, if the evasion BP was bad at the time i'd just use the BP that lowered the mobs accuracy.

I haven't tried the new bps yet however.

[Cabalabob]

i'd be fine with this ability the way it is if they made it more like spirit taker, mp drain is completely useless on mobs with no mp which is a good majority of them.

however i do agree that making it either hp or mp was a bad idea, both effects together like on hofud would be much better having both at a base amount drained and moonphase giving a bonus to one or the other.