DNC tanking

[browolf]

Don't see many dnc tanking, ppl usually go with thf or nin, but if you can't get those dnc do it good with the right gear.
what i use is

eva gear
kila+3 evasion
parazonium+3 oat2-4

rr, gh, siren shadow atma

between paraz and atma I get a high multi-attack rate with high crit rate :cool:

[Arcon]

The reason why not many DNC tank inside Abyssea is simple - there's better jobs at it.

MNK for blue staggers, NIN for red staggers, WAR for blue and red, THF for TH. That's also why SAM or DRG don't tank, even though they can survive just as well with a WHM and do a lot more damage.

Evasion setup will probably only gimp your damage and not be required, unless you only have non-WHM support (or no support, although then I wouldn't call it tanking, but soloing).

[Runespider]

Anything can tank in abyssea, moving forward the only thing that will be able to tank are heavy DD (with temps) or pld.

[Kuroganashi]

DNC is ok but could be better indeed if they made it have more EVA+

[Soranika]

More eva would have been nice, DNC can take hits though with Fan Dance if they do and don't mind not being able to use sambas.

[Deadvinta]

No Dancer should mind not being able to use Sambas. I personally hate Tanking or gearing for Evasion on my Dancer, but if it comes right down to it, I'll pop Fan Dance and sit there throwing Waltz bombs til we get the main tank back up.

[Dragonlord]

Dnc has tons of evasion. evasion is > evasion skill. And we get many tiers of evasion bonus in addition to the merits on closed position. In fact 90% of the time i see DNCs overkilling their eva and killing the mob waaay slower than they should be. When i solo on dnc in aby i almost always wear full DD gear w/ DD atmas.

Sure thf can kill us on max evasion, but what content really needs that much evasion? As said previously dnc also has other tools like fan dance and self cures that greatly improve our tanking ability.

[Sappho]

No Dancer should mind not being able to use Sambas. I personally hate Tanking or gearing for Evasion on my Dancer, but if it comes right down to it, I'll pop Fan Dance and sit there throwing Waltz bombs til we get the main tank back up.

Deadvinta, where'd you get that signature image?
Pretty cool.

[Sappho]

Dnc has tons of evasion. evasion is > evasion skill. And we get many tiers of evasion bonus in addition to the merits on closed position. In fact 90% of the time i see DNCs overkilling their eva and killing the mob waaay slower than they should be. When i solo on dnc in aby i almost always wear full DD gear w/ DD atmas.

There was a huge debate a couple years back that items which gave Evasion Skill (like the Evasion Torque (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Evasion_Torque)) were superior to items that gave straight Evasion (like the Emperor Hairpin (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Hairpin)).

Did that debate ever get settled with some solid math?

[Arcon]

There was a huge debate a couple years back that items which gave Evasion Skill (like the Evasion Torque (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Evasion_Torque)) were superior to items that gave straight Evasion (like the Emperor Hairpin (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Hairpin)).

Did that debate ever get settled with some solid math?

Yes, Evasion skill = Evasion <= 200, after that 1 Evasion skill = 0.9 Evasion. In any case, Evasion > Evasion skill.

[Sappho]

Yes, Evasion skill = Evasion <= 200, after that 1 Evasion skill = 0.9 Evasion. In any case, Evasion > Evasion skill.

Thanks, Arcon.

[Deadvinta]

Deadvinta, where'd you get that signature image?
Pretty cool.

There was a thread with its template posted a few months back. If there was a PM system I'd upload the template and send it to you.

[Urthdigger]

One thing I love doing with my DNC in abyssea is burning using Aeolian Edge. My atma setup is geared for MAB (Plus Gales for wind attack bonus), and with fan dance up it's not that difficult to survive a number of mobs beating on you. 20% PDT (Its lowest amount after getting hit a few times) goes a long way, especially with a few other easy to get PDT items like Twilight Torque.

[browolf]

No Dancer should mind not being able to use Sambas. I personally hate Tanking or gearing for Evasion on my Dancer, but if it comes right down to it, I'll pop Fan Dance and sit there throwing Waltz bombs til we get the main tank back up.

I never use fan dance. Evasion gear has it covered.


Dnc has tons of evasion. evasion is > evasion skill. And we get many tiers of evasion bonus in addition to the merits on closed position. In fact 90% of the time i see DNCs overkilling their eva and killing the mob waaay slower than they should be.


Since tanking is a combination of survival & damage, not enough damage *was* a problem until I got occasionally attack 2-4 dagger. That makes a big difference! Then you can fill up on crit/damage atmas.

[Dragonlord]

I stopped my oa dagger at 2-3 because i never use it. Most of DNCs dmg comes from DoT and the dmg and delay on the oa2-4 is pretty bad. In addition the loss of 9 agi and 20 evasion in 1 slot is very noticable and when it brings you below cap. I find dnc's tp gain to be more than enough to spam WS even w/o an oa offhand, and tend to tp faster than i can cure waltz 3 spam as well.

About fan dance, yes its true people tend to overuse it and reduce their damage outputs, there are strong uses as well. First thing that comes to mind are the TP moves that deal a set % of your HP like the NM scorpions have. Why eat a 2500 dmg move when you can drop it to 250? If mob doesn't do something like that, haste samba of course.

[Soranika]

I don't really get multi-hit weapons since double attack does not work on those weapon and unless I'm wrong, doesn't haste samba only work for the first hit of those weapons but not the additional ones?

I know for me, until I get either a twastar or one (or both) of the daggers from Qilin, I've been sticking with Phurba and Oynos knife on off hand, using Pyrric Kleos + Evisceration for self darkness skillchain as my form of WS damage. TP gain is fast enough, double attack is frequent and delay doesn't really effect the flow to much unless double attack doesn't activate.

[Deadvinta]

Haste samba works on all hits, it's Enspell II that doesn't work on multihits.

[Sappho]

I don't really get multi-hit weapons since double attack does not work on those weapon and unless I'm wrong, doesn't haste samba only work for the first hit of those weapons but not the additional ones?

I watched a RDM/nin in campaign a couple years back who was soloing with a joytoy and a kraken club and it was a pretty amazing spectacle.

[Deadvinta]

Also as a Dancer your double attack rate is about 10-15% from gear, which isn't going to happen very much anyway. Unless you're subbing Warrior. In which case, el-oh-el. The Parazonium's 2-4 actually procs quite a bit, the 3rd hit seems to be its favorite place.

[Dragonlord]

Does the oa2-4 give you more tp over time? yes. Does it give the mob more tp over time? yes. For every plus the oa2-4 has it has an equal drawback. And, in case its not known, DA/TA will prevent the addition attacks from proccing, so the more you have w/ a oa2-4 on, the less the dagger is doing for you. Not to mention it also makes saber dance worthless.

[Arcon]

Does the oa2-4 give you more tp over time? yes. Does it give the mob more tp over time? yes. For every plus the oa2-4 has it has an equal drawback.

Not defending the dagger itself, but that point is moot. It's not an equal drawback, it's a very, very minor, hardly ever noticeable drawback.

[scaevola]

About fan dance, yes its true people tend to overuse it and reduce their damage outputs, there are strong uses as well. First thing that comes to mind are the TP moves that deal a set % of your HP like the NM scorpions have. Why eat a 2500 dmg move when you can drop it to 250? If mob doesn't do something like that, haste samba of course.

I switched from 5/5 Saber to 5/5 Fan at 95. I like it.

Saber/Haste Samba will help you kill something faster, but Fan will give you wiggle room and allow you to kill things you wouldn't have been able to otherwise. Fulltime Saber/Haste Samba's great, but there's nothing I could do with that setup (including self-healing, hilariously) that a NIN/DNC with Kannagi couldn't do much better.

As a side-note, 5/5 Fan Dance DNC/MNK with counterstance up is pretty hilarious.

[Raa]

I couldnt help to comment... DNC is a great Tank !! seriously if you think otherwise you should reconsider some other game to try!! SE made it clear that DNC as a job will be one of the best soloing Jobs in FFXI and they way this Job is designed highly support that! with full meretied Fan Dance a DNC can take most of the fight without the need to even Waltz!
and when you support it with the right gear.. your practically GOD!!.. new updates now support that the amount of AGI that you stack will effect greatly the amount of Damage you will take from enemy .. specially from TP moves and lets not forget how DEX affects your over all damage ( critical hits rate ) plus the amount of Critical hits that you will likely to take from the Monster...
using AGI + and DEX+ gear can improve your performance greatly in soloing or tanking ( hit more and harder with DEX+ ==> ending up to be the tank in the party / add more AGI and you got your self a stack of EVA and survive-ability from TP moves) simple ... isnt it.. no wonder DNC is meant for soloing activities -.-

regarding Abyssea .. sure THF NIN would do much in terms of Drops ... but im ok with the idea of DNC procing Yellow and Red every once and while .. Plus its much more fun to solo on DNC anyway !! * better animation* :D