Shattersoul

[Tannlore]

So been playing around on the test server for a while now and while I'm far from posting concrete numbers I have something to give atm.

I did discover some.. interesting things.

Caveat: This is far from a full set of data collection or a really good setup. Just something done quick on the fly. I'm in the process of getting more concrete numbers and I might post it later.

Outside of abyssea: Saromugue (Saru skinks)
Weapon: 90 Hvergelmir
10 ws naked (97int 84str 485atk @ 100% tp) gave averages of 1000
10 ws geared (97base +60int, 84-8 str, 579atk @100%tp gave averages of 882
(I had two odd ones for 1200 and 1300 dmg... crits I'm guessing)

Stacking int brought it down? hmm

Outside of Abyssea: East Ron (rabbits)
Weapon: 90 Hvergelmir
10 ws naked (97int 84str 485atk @ 100% tp) gave averages of 650
10 ws geared (97base +60int, 84-8 str, 579atk @100%tp gave averages of 737

The weaker mobs gave less damage overall.

Abbysea:
20 WS naked (no atmas, no cruor buffs... nada) with 90 Hvergelmir and 97 base int: avg shattersoul dmg was 1210 (rounded up) on Shadow Lizards @ 100% tp
20 WS geared with 90 Hvergelmir and 142 int. (atmas: MM, Kirin, Full Moon + random assortment of what ever int gear I had on at the time.. not a lot honestrly) Avg dmg 1700 on shadow lizards. @ 100%tp


Abyssea was understandably much higher and gave the behavior I expected when adding more int (though base int at the time was lower than when I tested outside. I suspect that the possibility of another modifier might be there.. MAB maybe?)

I have a lot more data that I'm still sifting through and need to test, but here are some quick and dirty numbers. But I can definitely see using this on smn for a damage boost. Especially in abyssea. Assuming the mob you're fighting is still alive after a 3-6k+ BP, this WS will almost certainly finish it off lol.

[Soranika]

Rawr, sexy skill. I'm gonna have to meret it with the new dagger ws.

[Tannlore]

Rawr, sexy skill. I'm gonna have to meret it with the new dagger ws.

Best part is how sexy it looks

[Malamasala]

How many hits is it?

[Hayward]

From the video, looks like 3 hits.

Waiting for the next excuse for why Summoners shouldn't bother learning the skill. I'm sure the non-Summoners or the ones still using /WHM are developing them as we speak.

[Soranika]

Well when you think about it the only other jobs that would use staff in battle aside from SMN would be PLD and MNK. PLD might benefit from this when you to deal damage to hold hate with earth staff but... I can't see much reason for them to do this if they have Ochain/Aegis, let alone Almace. Monks... unless they're a staff to hit a proc, they won't have a reason for it either.

All other jobs that could use staff is pretty horrible with it. Some one said SCH is pretty good for it but... I can't really see a SCH trying to beat on something in close quarters. If it does better damage than Retribution, I say go for it.

And hey! I still sub /WHM. D: That never stopped me from whacking stuff.

[Motenten]

I had two odd ones for 1200 and 1300 dmg... crits I'm guessing

Crit rate doesn't vary with TP. It's not a crit-based weaponskill. Therefore they weren't crits. DA, maybe, though more likely standard pDif variance, but definitely not crits.


Stacking int brought it down? hmm

More controlled tests are needed before you can say for sure what was going on.

With 485 attack (what you had on the lower of the two), you will already be capping attack on those mobs, so the additional attack in the second test will not make any difference.

With only 10 samples you can expect a 10% margin of error on the average itself, for -each- test, assuming all other variables were controlled. So, the first test implies an average between 900 and 1100. The second test implies an average between 794 and 970.

Unfortunately there's one other significant variable that's not properly accounted for. This is a 4-hit weaponskill, and you can thus expect an average of 2 missed swings for every 10 weaponskills. Given the numbers of the weaponskills themselves, you can expect that for every missed swing in one set that didn't happen in the other, that the average would shift by about 25 points. It's entirely possible for there to be a 100 point swing in average due to this factor.

In addition, your str changed in the second test. Given that you were only barely above the limit for capped fStr on the lvl 0 mobs, you can say that your fStr is basically guaranteed to have dropped 2 points in the second test set, which will further affect the average.

Overall, you do not provide nearly enough data to make any reasonable conclusions about the weaponskill, except the vague general area of damage you're likely to achieve while using it.


The weaker mobs gave less damage overall.

It's a 4-hit weaponskill. On starter mobs, only the first hit (or maybe second if you whiff the first hit) is ever going to connect. Thus it will necessarily always have lower damage than on mobs where all hits connect.

However it also makes those tests more consistant (we can be sure that only one hit landed each time). You can say that adding 60 int increased your expected damage by somewhere between 0% and 39%.

[Economizer]

From what I've heard, this WS is a 4-hit WS that lowers the foe's magic def.


Stacking int brought it down? hmm

I'm guessing you killed them in less hits, bringing the total damage down.

For example, lets say that you had a two hit WS that does 500 damage for each hit, and you are fighting a mob with 550 HP. If you hit it for 500 each time, the WS will read as doing 1000 damage, but if you boost your damage by 10%, it will only read as having done 550 damage.

Well that, or you missed some hits. Your sample sizes are pretty small after all.


The weaker mobs gave less damage overall.

Definitely multihit.


Waiting for the next excuse for why Summoners shouldn't bother learning the skill. I'm sure the non-Summoners or the ones still using /WHM are developing them as we speak.

The only WS staff users should ever use is Spirit Taker or Myrkr! :p

Actually, before this WS you'd have to decide whether the damage you do is high enough to outdo the damage potential your WS gets. Depending on the additional effect of this WS, you could potentially do more damage from nuking/BP:Rage after the WS do to the effect on the mob then you would from the MP return of Spirit Taker, or if you are using the Emp Staff, when you have full MP and are WS during aftermath.

Also, /WHM is a legit sub, even when you are whacking things... WHM is a melee class too... D:

[Tannlore]

Crit rate doesn't vary with TP. It's not a crit-based weaponskill. Therefore they weren't crits. DA, maybe, though more likely standard pDif variance, but definitely not crits.

No Double Attack gear or sources what so ever, pDif variance highly likely yes.




More controlled tests are needed before you can say for sure what was going on.

Yes... hence the Caveat AND the closing statement about needing more/proper numbers. I couldn't agree more.



With 485 attack (what you had on the lower of the two), you will already be capping attack on those mobs, so the additional attack in the second test will not make any difference.

Yeah I thought about that also, helps eliminate some things for the deep testing (Already in progress)



In addition, your str changed in the second test. Given that you were only barely above the limit for capped fStr on the lvl 0 mobs, you can say that your fStr is basically guaranteed to have dropped 2 points in the second test set, which will further affect the average.

Overall, you do not provide nearly enough data to make any reasonable conclusions about the weaponskill, except the vague general area of damage you're likely to achieve while using it.

See statement about the caveat above




It's a 4-hit weaponskill. On starter mobs, only the first hit (or maybe second if you whiff the first hit) is ever going to connect. Thus it will necessarily always have lower damage than on mobs where all hits connect.

Yeah this occurred to me after I actually got sleep. ^_^ Already about 50 WS in on mobs that will be able to provide this kind of info.

So as I said, the info above is NOT concrete, just quick and dirty stuff. Once I finish testing (and I welcome anyone to add in their own numbers :p) I'll just post my raw data and let you guys have at it.

[Tannlore]

Okay so after some more in depth testing here's what I got:

I'll leave the conclusions to you napkin mathematicians (for all you non-math people: mean is the average)

Edit: Outside of abyssea testing still in progress. I'll post that later.

Shattersoul: Delivers a fourfold attack. Decreases target's magic defense. Duration of effect varies with TP.

Sample Skillchains: (Self, done with staff)

Garlands of Bliss (GB) -> Shattersoul (SS) =Gravitation
SS -> GB = Fragmentation
Retribution (R) -> SS = Induration
SS - > R = Fragmentation


_____________________________________________________________________________
Test one
Target: Shadow Lizard (EP Low E/D all same size)
Smn/WHM 99/49
Shattersoul: 5/5
Stats: STR 84, Int 94, Atk 485
Gear: 90 Hvergelmir
Buffs: None

Sample size 40:

Mean: 985.1
Median: 1022
Range: 654
Highest sample was: 1246, Lowest sample was 592

____________________________________________________________________________
Test Two

Target: Shadow Lizard (EP Low E/D all same size)
Smn/WHM 99/49
Shattersoul: 5/5
STR 114, Int 124 atk 507
Gear: 90 Hvergelmir
Buffs: Cruor (yeah +30.. I'm le lazeh on quest abyssite :P)

Sample size 40:

Mean: 1094
Median: 1143
Range: 541

Highest Value was: 1373, Lowest Value was 832
_____________________________________________________________________________
Test Three
(this test I decided to toss on common atmas for smn and used gear that upped int only -no additional DA/TA contributed from gear- I wanted to see what it would be like on a smn in a normal mode in there. MM was chosen for the int boost/refresh)

Target: Shadow Lizard (EP Low E/D all same size)
Smn/WHM 99/49
Shattersoul: 5/5
Str: 156 Int: 226 Atk 539
Weapon: 90 Hvergelmir
Buffs: Cruor (yeah +30.. I'm le lazeh on quest abyssite :P) VV/MM/Apoc

Sample size 40:

Mean: 2162
Median: 2053.3
Range: 1575

Highest Value was: 2960, Lowest Value was 1385


All I have to say about this part of the test phase is: Holy SMN tank Batman!

Once all these tests were done, I switched to SMN/SAM for skillchain testing using the setup from Test 3 for gear. When I started self-skillchaining, I would often do about 4k+ dmg. All that dmg straight from ME :cool:

[Dallas]

Nice information, Tann. I totally hate to do this to you, but since the mod is INT, have you tried MAB? One of those hits looks magic.

[Tannlore]

Nice information, Tann. I totally hate to do this to you, but since the mod is INT, have you tried MAB? One of those hits looks magic.

Yup MAB seems to do absolutely nothing to the damage, or it was very very minimal that I could notice or make anything of a difference in the data.

[Dallas]

EXCELLENT! SE seems to be learning that the two damages don't mix. I can't tell yet whether I'm going to like this more than cataclysm, as we're going to need all the classic WS gear again.

[Tannlore]

Interesting to note, the description of Shattersoul is three-fold attack now.

so far 3/5 and cranking out 1000-1800 WS in xp parties atm.

[Zemarin]

All other jobs that could use staff is pretty horrible with it. Some one said SCH is pretty good for it but... I can't really see a SCH trying to beat on something in close quarters. If it does better damage than Retribution, I say go for it.

Plz know that SCH and BLM both have Occult Acumen and Both have Very High MP cost spells to the point they end up earning about 14~20 TP a cast Not to mention SCH has a Regain spell as well >_>.. Why would a SCH/BLM would need to attack in close Quarters? All smn has on em is a bit more skill/accuracy but that really doesn't matter if all they want is the magic def down effect?

[Dallas]

A physical WS has to hit. This isn't the same discussion as Myrkr or Cataclysm.

[Tannlore]

A physical WS has to hit. This isn't the same discussion as Myrkr or Cataclysm.

Or Garlands of Bliss, can't fathom the last time that missed being a light based WS. Honestly at 5/5 and a few days of testing it out on my smn and sch (and blm.. I had to) I'm very happy with this WS.

I can't believe I'm saying this but, I think SE really did it right this time. Not too over powered, peppers in just enough damage to make it worth the effort to use/get it, looks flashy (thank god not another spirit taker/retribution graphics rehash), and plus you get the "Hey leave me some!" look from your avatar for a change :D

[Karbuncle]

Hey Fellas, Megabumping an Old thread here, Was actually having some fun with this lately. I've had a lot of improvement in gear. Here's some fun i had...

SMN/THF - Dynamis. The Pictures come out a bit small i think, So the numbers are here.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll241/Karbuncle/pol2012-08-1803-33-10-14.jpg

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll241/Karbuncle/pol2012-08-1803-29-57-58.jpg
3,300

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll241/Karbuncle/pol2012-08-1803-31-38-43.jpg
2.857

My Average was about 2000~2300, Peaks around 2800 without SA (and some 2800 with SA, yay doubles), that 3300 was a SA, Also managed to hit a 1900 Spirit Taker, but that was just hilarious.

My WS set puts me at +101 INT, Base is 91. So i'm rocking 192 INT, and about 110 STR without food, Attack around 504 WIthout food/Buffs, and not /WAR.

Overall, I love this WS, Its really fun... Going to try to get some uses out of it in Voidwatch sometime in the future, See how well i can do now that i've updated a lot of my gear.

</3 Photobucket though.

[Infidi]

Hey Fellas, Megabumping an Old thread here, Was actually having some fun with this lately. I've had a lot of improvement in gear. Here's some fun i had...

SMN/THF - Dynamis. The Pictures come out a bit small i think, So the numbers are here.

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll241/Karbuncle/pol2012-08-1803-33-10-14.jpg

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll241/Karbuncle/pol2012-08-1803-29-57-58.jpg
3,300

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll241/Karbuncle/pol2012-08-1803-31-38-43.jpg
2.857

My Average was about 2000~2300, Peaks around 2800 without SA (and some 2800 with SA, yay doubles), that 3300 was a SA, Also managed to hit a 1900 Spirit Taker, but that was just hilarious.

My WS set puts me at +101 INT, Base is 91. So i'm rocking 192 INT, and about 110 STR without food, Attack around 504 WIthout food/Buffs, and not /WAR.

Overall, I love this WS, Its really fun... Going to try to get some uses out of it in Voidwatch sometime in the future, See how well i can do now that i've updated a lot of my gear.

</3 Photobucket though.

What atmas were you using ? ^^

[SpankWustler]

What atmas were you using ? ^^

Atma of the Dynamic Dynamis Dynamo, Atma of the Disheveled Dynamis Dachshund, and Atma of the Deconstructed Dynamis Dr. Pepper Decanter.

[Infidi]

Atma of the Dynamic Dynamis Dynamo, Atma of the Disheveled Dynamis Dachshund, and Atma of the Deconstructed Dynamis Dr. Pepper Decanter.

Lawl. Glad you got that. XD For realz though, yo', that's good Weaponskill. ^^

[Babekeke]

Atma of the Dynamic Dynamis Dynamo, Atma of the Disheveled Dynamis Dachshund, and Atma of the Deconstructed Dynamis Dr. Pepper Decanter.

The Deconstructed Dynamis Dr. Pepper Decanter atma sucks. My WS always do 50% more with atma of the Devlish Dynamis Duo.

@ Karby: Were you WSing at ~100% most of the time, or waiting for procs (as smn/thf I'd assume not) or just alternating BP one mob, WS the next?

[Karbuncle]

The Deconstructed Dynamis Dr. Pepper Decanter atma sucks. My WS always do 50% more with atma of the Devlish Dynamis Duo.

@ Karby: Were you WSing at ~100% most of the time, or waiting for procs (as smn/thf I'd assume not) or just alternating BP one mob, WS the next?

WS @ 100% Each time, The WS is Additional Effect Varies wit TP, Not damage though. - Although, my idiot brother was suppose to be RDM/DNC So we could do JA Procs (I was there for my SMN Head+2 Trial, which is why i went SMN over THF) - He ended up being /BLM, So we fought WS Proc mobs lol.

I generally kept Carby out for the removal of the Max MP Down, Blind, Choke, Paralyze, SIlence(Para/Sil from Hippos), and the overall super regen from his Favor. But I used Ifrit/Shiva/Garuda and theme very so often, and was able to keep them out just fine even in Melee gear, This was probably do in no small part to Refresh II and my Spirit Takers going 600-1k Damage without SA!

I Hope i answered your question accurately. - I was personally shocked Shattersoul did so well, I don't think i saw below a 2k unless i whiffed a hit.

[Karbuncle]

Bonus:

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll241/Karbuncle/pol2012-08-1816-42-33-12-1.jpg

Got to have some fun with it @ ADL, Was on SMN/SCH, It didnt do as much as our Epic Buffed DD, But 1800 on SMN/SCH, I enjoyed it. I think i had Chaos Roll though :3

Edit: Also, To more or less be perfectly clear, Cause i know people who play melee jobs generally have the cerebral functions of a dead zebra... (hehe)

I'm not posting this information as "proof" SMN can DD, I'm not posting it saying SMN is a 1337 DD, I'm literally posting it to shout that if you try, and you want too, you can have some fun on SMN and even pull off some semi-respectable numbers. Its all about enjoying yourself. I don't expect SMN DD to become expected or the norm, Nor do i particularly care either way...

It won't stop me from busting out the Plenitas and smackin' some shattersoul around.... Because its fun! I'll still do my job to the fullest, But unlike a Melee, I have enough brain activity to perform two tasks at once (ha!)

- No but really, You DD Are all right :D