Mundane

[Concerned4FFxi]

I'm sitting in Port Jueno and even the new players and players with little time on thier hands admit that the game is too easy, mundane. I didn't even comment this time, I just listened to what was being said it it seems to me I'm not the only one with regrets and even new/returning players are upset with the lack of good challenges vs. rewards. New ws that require next to nothing to acquire (even a million xp is a joke with abyssea), auto-reraise in WOE, uncapped COP. They mentioned the COP part and trains of mobs wiping people in Crawler's Nest before you even spawned you were dead. But the game meant something. I don't want to die just by zoning, but I would like to die more often.

I was reading online that an MMO programer for Blizard stated that MMO's have no point really, and that's kinda true. However, I enjoy playing 11, but there is absolutely no challenge in this game whatsoever. At least before it required some skill and organization.

The other day we took 2 empyrean sam, a whm mule, a smn for alex, and my blu and trashed dl. Granted, Alex wore at around 5% and he came after me first, soon as I died (he didn't appreciate my multiple stuns) he wiped the rest, but we had him at 1 hit point before the other DD's wiped. The whm mule reraised and killed him with dia. We are not sure why he didn't drop anything, maybe because he went white at 1 hit point, i'm not sure, but I got the ki/clear. LOL, we decided we'll spam him with 2smn from now on, and no blu, and get everyone the drops and some hundreds for a relic or three, but there's no rush.

I remember doing a pick up group, before dyna xcarbard became open with the ki, and the purpose was to beat DL/clear. After which, we farmed. It was a full alliance, with a few rdm's using Chainspell. We wiped to Dl and then farmed. It wasn't even as close as the low man my ls/friends and I did.

But, as much fun as I had with my friends killing DL the other day, I had more fun wiping to him with the full alliance. I realise that if it was a linkshell event (back then) we probably would have won vs. the pick up play style, but it was a blast back then.

I've said before that I understand SE is making the game to cater to more people and that's good up to a point. If there is absolutely no challenge at all anywhere in the game even casual players are going to tire of it fast. So what's the deal, is this mismanagement or on purposeis because SE doesn't care as long as they can get people to play for another five years and hope they switch to 14?

PS- While I like that the new WS can only have 3 of them fully merited, if this is true from what I'm hearing, I'm still embrassed that they match the WOE weapons/WS. Please consider giving mythic/relic/empyrean another boast in damage, it's completely unacceptable to have a hundred plus hours of farming going into a WOE/empyrean/relic and who knows how many months/years to make a mythic, only to have a pearle sam put up similiar numbers. (Please don't post a resonse saying, I guess your ws set isn't that good or something to that effect, the perle is an example, and current tests are showing some of these new ws to be complete power houses when done on the test server, with the same ws set and using the WOE weapon to compare the empyrean ws to the new ws. I like that some of the new ws are going to be very useful and I'm looking forward to that, but don't shaft the people that worked hard on their super weapons just to appease the masses. SE talks about balance all the time, so please use a little here). Thank You.

[FrankReynolds]

I Personally think the game is still lots of fun, and don't really have a problem with the way it's going, but I've only been playing for like 8 years. I never hear people say things like "I wish the game were harder" anywhere besides these forums. People in game are plugging away, and having a good time doing it. Your getting all nostalgic over crap like MPK. Think about that for a minute. Dynamis no longer has the best gear, and even when it did, It was still horribly unbalanced in that 1 guy was always reaping huge benefits, while the other 17 usually got scraps. That's a bad system. I'm glad it was changed.

I have recently made a new character. Going through all the required quests / missions to unlock cop / zilart / past areas, getting full dynamis access, airship passes, build fame, earn money for basic spells / gear etc. is inbcredibly tedious and time consuming even with all the changes they have made, and when you are done, you are still just wearing entry level gear, and low on cash.

I highly doubt that new players (not people like me who already know how to do everything) are complaining that things are too easy. The biggest complaint I ever hear from new players is that it takes FOREVER to get to where you can play endgame at a decent level in this game and have full access to the zones / gear / spells.


I somewhat agree with you on the last part though. Personally I think that WOE weapons should be easier to get. Not more powerful. Empyrians on the other hand, should be easily out damaging merit weapon skills. However, they could do that by increasing the effects, and base damage, instead of boosting the WS damage. I don't like the idea of Weapon skills tied to one weapon.

[Brolic]

content 7 years old should be easy, take that same setup to Aello or Qilin and come back.

[Cabalabob]

dynamis lord is level 65-75 content... what exactly are you expecting? taking him on at level 95 and saying the game is too easy is like saying the game is too easy cause you can 1 shot jaggedy eared jack now...

5 man the ARCH dynamis lord and then you can talk... or you could at least suggest a solution? such as introducing optional level caps like they had on assault missions? more constructive than just moaning.

[Concerned4FFxi]

It is as i said, in port jueno today people where saying the game is too easy. You act like this is something new and you never heard it before. I enjoy the game too, I would enjoy it more if there was more of a challenge. All the new content that came out that's 90+ is easy and takes no skill at all.

You don't need anything for vw, just an ochain pld or two for the higher tiers. That's not challenging. Comparing the new content to the old content when it first came out, there is a big difference. Dynamis death houses in windurst have their names for a reason. There is no death house in abyssea or theres no nm in vw that is that bad, except maybe the corse nm because of doom.

My point is there has been some new content, and it's not very challenging at the levels it's introduced. And we've low manned arch nm in other zones, they are not a challenge either, except the orc's can be a a pain with charm if not using pets to assist as dd/tank, but this hardly counts as a challenge.

You also choose to ignore the fact that WOE is new and supposed to be for 90+, yet theres auto-rr in the dam event, so really what are you trying to say? I said it clearly, new content coming out so far has not been as challenging as the older content was when it came out. Everything has auto-rr in it now, WOE and abyssea have it. Even VW has a ton of oppurtunities to get a rr scroll, just from an HQ proc. Tell me how this challenges the player base, and how these events are not aimed at the current level cap. People spam the higher tier VW for drops all the time, yet back in the day only a select few could tackle AV or PW.

We all know you need an alliance for Arch-dynamis lord, you can't 5-man him at 95 or 99. I only mentioned the DL fight because I was comparing the fun I had from fighting in an alliance at 80 and wiping, compared to low manning at 95. It wasn't about the look at what I did, I even mentioned the fun factor.

[FrankReynolds]

It is as i said, in port jueno today people where saying the game is too easy. You act like this is something new and you never heard it before. I enjoy the game too, I would enjoy it more if there was more of a challenge. All the new content that came out that's 90+ is easy and takes no skill at all.

You don't need anything for vw, just an ochain pld or two for the higher tiers. That's not challenging. Comparing the new content to the old content when it first came out, there is a big difference. Dynamis death houses in windurst have their names for a reason. There is no death house in abyssea or theres no nm in vw that is that bad, except maybe the corse nm because of doom.

My point is there has been some new content, and it's not very challenging at the levels it's introduced. And we've low manned arch nm in other zones, they are not a challenge either, except the orc's can be a a pain with charm if not using pets to assist as dd/tank, but this hardly counts as a challenge.

You also choose to ignore the fact that WOE is new and supposed to be for 90+, yet theres auto-rr in the dam event, so really what are you trying to say? I said it clearly, new content coming out so far has not been as challenging as the older content was when it came out.


Your definition of challenging does not == fun for the bulk of the population. Especially new players. I understand that you want some new crap to put your shiny new armor to the test, but your making it sound like the entire population is bored and unimpressed, when the fact of the matter is that most people like the new content as well as the difficulty.

I agree that there should be stuff that puts veterans to the test, but the old stuff needs to stay easy so that new people can actually get it done.

We are in a transition here. Wait until the level cap is finished, so that they can tweek new events to the new level.

[Concerned4FFxi]

Ok, I believe that the new people want more of a challenge too. When I started playing, I stucvk around becasue the game was challenging. I didn't start with shiny armor. Yet here I am, and I stayed because the challenge was fun. I also said I had no problem with some stuff being easy, and it makes sense that some old content would be like that, but all the new stuff is easy as well and that's the problem. When even the new content is not challenging it makes me feel like nothing in the future is going to be challenging. I know plenty of people take don't like auto-rr in eveything they do, and that includes new players as well. Would you have stayed playing the game this long if auto-rr was in everything you did? To an extent the rr-earring is auto-rr, but you can't zombie with the earring, you have to use it and there's at least a cool down on it. I'm fine with a few events having auto-rr, but to see WOE go from a new dynamis appeal when it was first introduced and was alliance fight, to low manned pet jobs, to now an auto-rr feast breaks my heart.

I enjoyed WOE before auto-rr. I don't even need the coins I just did it to skill up pet jobs and to help people get coins if I was bored. Now I can't stand to look at it.

[Concerned4FFxi]

We are in a transition here. Wait until the level cap is finished, so that they can tweek new events to the new level.

I totally understand about being in a transition, my concern is WOE and VW are new and they are so much of a disappointment. My fear is that all new content from now on will be targeting the mentality that if it's not easy it's not fun. Can't there be at least some challenge? With WOE, couldn't they have included higher tier WOE that dropped more coins but required more strategy to win, and lower tiers more solo-able or low manable, all without the auto-rr and all fluxs offering at least one coin so the soloist could solo his, it would just take longer than if he teamed up in a higher tier? Couldn't the moogle you buy the entrance fee from, offer you a free scroll of rr when you entered if one wastn't in your inventory? Why the auto-rr route?

[FrankReynolds]

To be honest, I thought that the whole raise / home point thing was the most annoying part of the game when I first started. Having your tank die in valkurm, and having to wait 45 minutes for him to Home Point to windhurst and walk back was super lame. 5 people standing around with their thumbs where the sun don't shine is not fun or challenging imo.

Walk of echoes is not really meant to be particularly challenging. Even if they made it super challenging, it would be weak again as soon as the level cap went up, just like everything you named previously. It all used to be a challenge 20 levels ago. Wait until you have been 99 for a while. give it a shot.

[Concerned4FFxi]

Yes WOE was a beast when it was first introduced, and your right it would get easier over time with cap increases that's why auto-rr in it is silly and I see nothing wrong with the auto-rr head peice for the under level 30 people that's offered in the special abyssea edition, but that's were auto-rr should be, under 30. I thought twilight mail set was a little over the top, but I'll be upset if there's more auto-rr events in the future, just doesn't feel right to me.

[Concerned4FFxi]

I will give them benefit of the doubt, I feel if I make my objections known now, that it can be passed along to the DEV before they release their next new content, and therefore avert what I feel is a bad idea. To me, it's easier to sway their minds now, while whatever they are cooking is in developement, then have them release the next content at an easier level because once it's released it's harder to go back and say this events too easy we need to make it harder than it would be to say, this events to hard lets make it easier.

[Concerned4FFxi]

content 7 years old should be easy, take that same setup to Aello or Qilin and come back.

All these mobs are a joke, and nobody is going to low man these nm because of the proc system. What you said is just not feasible because you wouldn't be able to get any decent light builds, and since there's a 30 minute time limit I'm not sure killing it in that amount of time is feasible. To me, there is no challenge if the tank can sit there all day and tank said nm, you can't kill me and I can't finish you off in 30 minutes doesnt equate as a challenge.

I tried to low man the wamoura in cn(S) but we ran out of time, the tank did just fine. Agian, not challenging, just not enough firepower to low man kill under 30 minutes.

[Concerned4FFxi]

To be honest, I thought that the whole raise / home point thing was the most annoying part of the game when I first started. Having your tank die in valkurm, and having to wait 45 minutes for him to Home Point to windhurst and walk back was super lame. 5 people standing around with their thumbs where the sun don't shine is not fun or challenging imo

LOL, so true. As i said, I approve of the auto-rr head gear for jobs under 30.

[Brolic]

All these mobs are a joke, and nobody is going to low man these nm because of the proc system. What you said is just not feasible because you wouldn't be able to get any decent light builds, and since there's a 30 minute time limit I'm not sure killing it in that amount of time is feasible. To me, there is no challenge if the tank can sit there all day and tank said nm, you can't kill me and I can't finish you off in 30 minutes doesnt equate as a challenge.

I tried to low man the wamoura in cn(S) but we ran out of time, the tank did just fine. Agian, not challenging, just not enough firepower to low man kill under 30 minutes.

what i'm hearing is you tried to lowman new content and you lost?

If you're going to reference old content dl is a terrible one, because sitting behind an ochain for new and sitting behind some rdm\drks for old ain't that different.

[Retsujo]

I tried to low man the wamoura in cn(S) but we ran out of time, the tank did just fine. Agian, not challenging, just not enough firepower to low man kill under 30 minutes.

So tell me what your definition of challenge is. Because trying to low man an NM and failing to do so sounds like a challenge to me. Without adding any players, try to find out how you can better approach that NM, and you'll have the right attitude.

[Concerned4FFxi]

Here's a better example of what I should have said, but the example wasn't available at the time.

The 99 cap. It's been nerfed because it was too much for some people, who never even tried it and just saw the video of the trio ochain pld rdm bst wipe.

That' what i'm asking for, the maat fight, the fellow cap fight at 70, they weren't game breakers, but they offered a challenge and were fun. I beat Maat third time around, and adventuring fellow second time around, but I still lost, had to rethink some things and try again and I enjoyed it. I'm not asking to wipe ten-twenty times, but I would still go back even if I did, I just want a decent challenge (pun intented ^.-)

[FrankReynolds]

Here's a better example of what I should have said, but the example wasn't available at the time.

The 99 cap. It's been nerfed because it was too much for some people, who never even tried it and just saw the video of the trio ochain pld rdm bst wipe.

That' what i'm asking for, the maat fight, the fellow cap fight at 70, they weren't game breakers, but they offered a challenge and were fun. I beat Maat third time around, and adventuring fellow second time around, but I still lost, had to rethink some things and try again and I enjoyed it. I'm not asking to wipe ten-twenty times, but I would still go back even if I did, I just want a decent challenge (pun intented ^.-)


The 99 cap shouldn't be nearly as hard as other content. There is a big difference between an event that drops shiny gear being hard, and a level cap quest. And Maat was never really hard. Even on red mage at level 66, it only took me 2 tries. Mainly because I had no idea how the game worked at the time. I hadn't set up proper macros yet, had no gear swaps, and was even casting a lot of stuff from the spell menu lol. The people in the video getting owned are experienced and very well geared, and they lost. Big difference.

It's fine if Void Watch, New Nyzul, New Salvage, New Einherjar, New WOE, New Limbus, and W/E else they add is hard. Just getting 99 shouldn't be very hard though.

You should really try low manning some stuff. The Dev staff has to cater to the community (at least a little) or people will quit playing. Most of the community is nowhere near finished with all the content that they want to do, or feeling a lack of challenge. I wouldn't worry though, SE already said that they think abbysea was a mistake, so expect more shitty NMs and horrible drop rates in the future to keep you happy.

[Concerned4FFxi]

I wouldn't worry though, SE already said that they think abbysea was a mistake, so expect more shitty NMs and horrible drop rates in the future to keep you happy.

O joy, lol. I'm just concerned, is all. If the cap where made easier, but things like VW didn't give temp items every HQ proc, or WOE didn't have auto-rr, then I'd understand, but I see it as a bigger picture. It's not that the 99cap was made easier, it's that everything is easier and new stuff is easier, and all the content coming out has been made easier, it's that few things require team work.

I couldn't get past COP because I couldn't find people willing to level certain jobs in order to win certain fights. At the time I was new, but I leveled ninja just to beat a Cop 2-5. Thats' the difference, I understand more about what the complaint is, and I can accept the 99cap being made easier because less people are willing to work together on content that gets outdated and go back to help future new players with 99cap, like cop was when I started doing it, before the cap removal but after most people doing endgame had sea access. But I was heart broken when the COP cap was lifted, even though I hadn't beaten it or come close to Sea access, it was soooo much fun doing COP becasue it was insanely hard and hence rewarding.

I'd agree with making the 99cap easier, I'd be all for it, if other things in the game required team work, hence making the difficulty challenging, it is an MMO. I worry that the next content add-on will be more like abyssea and less like COP or dynamis, where wiping was common place if people didn't pay attention or weren't organized. If organizing 18 people is too much, make new events that are for 6 man parties.

IDK, I just know that I'm upset about new content being not as challengiong as content that I remember, and perhaps because the new content is not as challenging, that I feel teased when I saw the video of the 99cap being hard and I felt SE was finally going to introduce harder contenet, only to have my hopes dashed by a sudden reversal. That's where the anger comes in. It's focused on the 99cap, because after so long it seemed they where going to start introducing harder content, and then immediately it reverted to current easy button stuff.

Conclusion: I agree with you, I see the light, it's ok to have easier 99 cap, but it seems to predict the future of the game as lacking challenge because everything introduced lately has been lacking in challenge. It's fun to a degree, I'm rather easy to please, I like leveling my adventuring fellow and getting all the mythic weapons skills and quested ws for crying out loud, and that's boring and easy. But for certain things like end game and caps, I want epicness. The memories I have of this game is the fear that promys put into me, that dynamis had my heart pounding. My heart doesn't pound anymore unless I'm soloing a new NM or something.

[FrankReynolds]

Hah! I still remember joining a PUG for the airship fight. I fell asleep after 2 hours of shouting for the 5th and 6th person. I woke up 7 hours later, turned on my monitor, and the 6th person had just joined our group. Good times.

[Concerned4FFxi]

I believe I spent most of the day shouting/organizing Bv1, so yea your absolutely right there are somethings that will not be missed.