Balance out Empyrean Weapon Magian Trials

[Draconia]

I am sure I am not the only one that has noticed this discrepancy. The Visions of Abyssea trials between different Empyrean Weapons is very unbalanced.

For those building Gandiva, Gambanteinn & Farsha you need 50 Fistule Discharge. It takes 1 NM (either Guimauve or Bloodguzzler) to be dragged over for Fistule to absorb in order to "pop" him.

For people building Masamune, Armageddon & Calabolg they have to obtain 50 Carabosse Gems. It takes 2 very easy to pop & kill NM's to obtain the items to pop Carabosse.

For those building Twashtar & Ukonvasara you need 50 Glavoid shells. It takes 4 items to pop Glavoid. 2 of the items come of Nm's that require 2 items themselves to be popped. For each of those it is an item that comes off an NM that has to be popped & killed to get the item. This means that you have to kill 6 NM just to be able to pop Glavoid.

For those building Verethragna, Rhongomiant & Redemption you need 50 Chloris Buds. It takes 4 items to pop Chloris. 3 of those items come off Nm's that need 2-3 items themselves to be popped. 1 item for Treble Nocules & Hedetet & 2 items for Ophanim require an NM be popped & killed to get them. This means you have to kill 8 NM just to be able to pop Chloris.

I think there needs to be some adjustments made to balance these trials out a bit. I hold way more respect to those who build weapons that require Glavoid or Chloris pops due to the insane amount of time needed to build pop sets. Granted all of the Key Items needed to pop those 2 NM CAN come of of Gold Pyxis in Abyssea-Tahrongi, but the actually load rate of the KI in those chests is sporadic & low. The amount of time to farm the gold chests would be equal to killing all the NM needed to build the pops. The trials involving Scars & Heroes areas are more balanced for the additional trials. I just think the Visions area trials need to be balanced out some how. Lower the required items to pop the Nm's, increase the shell and bud drops per kill or lower the amount of items required for the trial involving Glavoid & Chloris? Something needs to be balanced.

[SamuraiJohn]

also Kannagi/Almace needs 3 KI for visions areas, not so bad, but i agree that H2H/Dagger/ect trials need to be adjusted, i have friends working on Almace and Twashtar while i work on Masamune, obviously im the furthest along due to ease of KIs and how easy Carabosse can be to kill

[Anucris]

good point. once i realized how difficult rhongomiant is to build i just lost interest during VNM phase. I just dont have 20 pple to collect all the KI's to pop chloris several times over.

[Francisco]

Chloris isn't THAT bad - and I don't think the trial needs to be any easier... however I do agree that the trials for Masamune are disproportionately easier than the Tahrongi/Attohwa paths.

[Byrth]

At 85, I would have agreed with you. However, you're overlooking the trials to get them to 85 and 90. There's also no reason that weapons have to be equally easy to obtain.

Fistule (Easy) -> Bukhis (hardest of that tier) -> Alfard (Easy, but you need pops)
Glavoid (Hardest of that tier) -> Itzapapalotz (Mediocre because of Tunga) -> Orthrus (Easy to Mediocre due to pops)
Chloris (2nd Hardest) -> Ulhuldashi (Easy) -> Dragua (Easy)
Carabosse (Easy) -> Ciren (Easy) -> Isgebind (Easy, but hard to get help for)
Briarius (Mediocre) -> Sobek (Easy) -> Apademak (Hard)
Kulkulkan (Mediocre) -> Sedna (Mediocre to Difficult thanks to the fish) -> Azdaja (Hard)
Iron Giants (Easy) -> T3 VNMs (Hard to get pops for) -> Apademak/Azdaja (Hard)

Unless you're complaining that the Harp, Shield, and Staff are harder than the others, I don't think you have a case. Also, you need to keep in mind that future trials are doubtlessly being planned. The final version of all the weapons may end up being equally difficult to obtain.

[Garota]

Running into this very problem right now. But I totally agree that the trials should be balanced out. I hate spending too much time in Tahrongi.

[sandman]

I agree the trials really need to be balanced.

[Runespider]

Guy posted above, they are balanced already.

Kanagi is easy on the first, slightly more annoying on the 2nd and last trial is a quite annoying.

Other way around for Tahrongi starter Emps.

If you only care about getting to 85 then you have a point but since the ultimate goal is currently 90 they are all balanced. In fact I would say stuff that starts with Chloris are the easier ones because I would much rather have an annoying one at the start than at the end due to harder mobs and more items.

[Raksha]

I've always wondered why the lvl 80 versions dont give the WS, but the 85 versions give both WS and ODD, and the 90 versions just get some base dmg and 5 more stats.

Really the 80 versions should give WS only, 85 gives ODD, and 90 gives base D bonus. I realize they arent going to change it now, just wondered why they didnt do it that way in the beginning. (maybe they couldn't get their shit together and come up with the WSes on time?)



At 85, I would have agreed with you. However, you're overlooking the trials to get them to 85 and 90. There's also no reason that weapons have to be equally easy to obtain.

Fistule (Easy) -> Bukhis (hardest of that tier) -> Alfard (Easy, but you need pops)
Glavoid (Hardest of that tier) -> Itzapapalotz (Mediocre because of Tunga) -> Orthrus (Easy to Mediocre due to pops)
Chloris (2nd Hardest) -> Ulhuldashi (Easy) -> Dragua (Easy)
Carabosse (Easy) -> Ciren (Easy) -> Isgebind (Easy, but hard to get help for)
Briarius (Mediocre) -> Sobek (Easy) -> Apademak (Hard)
Kulkulkan (Mediocre) -> Sedna (Mediocre to Difficult thanks to the fish) -> Azdaja (Hard)
Iron Giants (Easy) -> T3 VNMs (Hard to get pops for) -> Apademak/Azdaja (Hard)

Unless you're complaining that the Harp, Shield, and Staff are harder than the others, I don't think you have a case. Also, you need to keep in mind that future trials are doubtlessly being planned. The final version of all the weapons may end up being equally difficult to obtain.

And according to your own chart there the gkt/gun/gswd is too easy.

[Alhanelem]

Thing is, I don't really see a realistic way to balance this other than remove some of the intermediate NMs on the lengthier trials and move their drops elsewhere, which I don't see them doing.

[Alukat]

if u check emp power vs. relic power and the difficulty to obtain them.
emp weapons can compete with relic but relics are a 100 times harder to obtain.so emps are still to easy >.>

[Vold]

if u check emp power vs. relic power and the difficulty to obtain them.
emp weapons can compete with relic but relics are a 100 times harder to obtain.so emps are still to easy >.>

No. Obtaining relics is not difficult. Obtaining relics is time consuming. Mythics are what's difficult. Empyreans are 100% lol due to the fact that a person could solo theirs with brews. And for all the trash talk I see about Empyreans, I see exactly zero of them on any casual player and rarely on hardcore players. As a matter of fact the only people that have them are the ones who have relics from what I've seen on my server. So I'm still somewhat clueless just what in the hell relic owners are complaining about. They're complaining about things that haven't happened yet. They complain about the distant future when everyone else finally catches up to them and their Empyreans.

I guarantee you SE has planned all along for relic weapons to be fricking insane at level 99 or whatever level they finally stop at and rightfully so with how insane the quests are, and Empyreans will end up looking stupid. So all of the weapon vs weapon feedback and this very post here will end being for absolutely nothing.

Hey I've never been pro Empyrean. I'm just anti BS, which includes BS reasoning by relic owners. Which means I throw my own BS at them in return. Relics should and will remain #1 due to the requirements of obtaining them. Which is anything but difficult. And while I believe Mythics should be #1 because their quest is about 300,000 times harder than Relics, the unfortunate fact is they aren't designed to be #1 and due to their quest requirements it's just not very realistic to even consider them in the running. I mean, they're nice for what they are but we all know when we think #1 weapon, we're thinking DPS output plain and simple, not defensive perks and whatnot.

So yeah, change whatever they want with Emps to make them as easy as they want. It's not going to effect relic weapons at the end of the day in the least once it's all said and done with. The investment relic owners made will be safe and secured and not by any doing of theirs on these forums. Mark my words. The future relic versions will be far superior to what they are today. And I think they should do it through the base stats instead of magian trials but oh well to that. Lastly, Empyreans will end up being the casual players ultimate weapon. Which is actually kind of nice because they pretty much got the shaft through out the years. Everyone wins here in the end and by SE design, all along.

[Runespider]

No. Obtaining relics is not difficult. Obtaining relics is time consuming. Mythics are what's difficult. Empyreans are 100% lol due to the fact that a person could solo theirs with brews. And for all the trash talk I see about Empyreans, I see exactly zero of them on any casual player and rarely on hardcore players

you must be a really backwater server then, on mine they are as common as dirt. Every other MNK I see in port has one, serious players have multiples.

[Reiterpallasch]

if u check emp power vs. relic power and the difficulty to obtain them.
emp weapons can compete with relic but relics are a 100 times harder to obtain.so emps are still to easy >.>

Just because they're all "too easy" doesn't mean that they shouldn't be adjusted to be similar in difficulty or time consumption. Yes, all empy are "easy", but some like Chloris/Glavoid paths take significantly longer when compared to Carabosse are Briarius.

Relics all take 'roughly' the same amount of time or effort to complete, aside from some differences in NMs or currency type. Mythics (aside from non-existent alexandrite), take exactly the same amount of time and effort, no matter which one you do.

[Andylynn]

No. Obtaining relics is not difficult. Obtaining relics is time consuming.
...and other smart stuff.


Aside from the ease of getting empyreans, I couldn't agree more. I find it stupid vets ever imply the game was remotely difficult to begin with; relics always being their example. As for empyreans... it seems like every japanese dude on my ex, and current server have one... starting to make me wonder.

[MarkovChain]

Also, you need to keep in mind that future trials are doubtlessly being planned. The final version of all the weapons may end up being equally difficult to obtain.

Did you pull this out of your hat or is it because you happen to have them ? All I read is SE being aware that empyrean are overpowered and them wanting to buff relics/mythics...

[Malamasala]

Considering the Staff WS itself is way worse than any others, and it being difficult to make, it is just another Claustrum. SE never did figure out how mage jobs works. It would seem they only play PLD, WAR and SAM.

[Alukat]

ask everyone who did his relic pre level cap raise if it was easy.
95% of this ppl will tell u that it sucks what SE just did and that it wasn't easy.
took me 9 attempts to kill Quiebitiel to obtain the attestion , benedictions at 1%, kick out due to lack of remaining time and whatnot.then the animated weapons, like 6 times warp at 6%.alle time we did it with 18-24 ppl (gathering is many ppl is alot work as well) and finally managed to kill it at level 85 cap.
all in all it was a pain to obtain it with the 1 1/2 years spend to get the money and another 2 months for the r/e items.
and it just sucks! that SE made the twastar so easy (doesn't take as long as for mandau) to get it and give it a 60% dex, with SA + RS u get 1 base dmg per dex and 60% for dex mod itself.
due to the fact that there is soooo much dex gear for thf, emp should easily beat relic in ws dmg.
for MS u have to take much str as possible, which is probably high as dex in the end as for emp.
but u don't get as much SA bonus due to the lacks of DEX.

so a weapon that can be build in 3 months beats a weapon which has taken 1 1/2 years. and ppl still complain that they are too difficult lol

Edit: relics have diffferent difficultys too, so get over it that some or harder to obtain as others.

[Byrth]

Did you pull this out of your hat or is it because you happen to have them ? All I read is SE being aware that empyrean are overpowered and them wanting to buff relics/mythics...

I doubt SE would let Relics/Mythics go to 99 but keep Empyreans at 90. It's just not going to happen. On the road to 99, it could be that the difficulty among the weapons will be evened out.

[Runespider]

Relics aren't hard to get, it just takes a lot of gil.

It took me about a year to get mine, self funded. The amount of work it took to make that gil far outwighs anything else i've done in this game. Added to that it took a whole alliance to get the attestations and with their annoying randomness of drops and only having one shot at it per run (when we did icelands) etc compared to Emps that you can duo all the way more or less, STR magian weapons are more work.

If you looking at getting a relic and think you won't get it for around a year, that is in itself a difficultly level that scares off most. Knowing you can bash out an emp in a week or two makes it a far nicer prospect.

Regardless I don't think they will ever put relics back ontop to the level some seem to think. The whole idea for the game is now more casual and if anything they will make relics a lot easier to get and require vastly less coins.

[sandman]

This isn't a relic thread, take that subject matter where it belongs.

All the empyrean NM's are pretty easy to beat, what I and alot of other people mean by balancing out the empyreans is the amount of time required to trigger Chloris and Glavoid versus the other NM's. Time is a premium in abyssea not difficulty.

[MarkovChain]

I doubt SE would let Relics/Mythics go to 99 but keep Empyreans at 90. It's just not going to happen. On the road to 99, it could be that the difficulty among the weapons will be evened out.

Empyrean weapon (and relics) are unlikely to become the next best weapons. They are considered THE reward (with the AF3) of abyssea. It doesn't make sense to keep them going on after abyssea and after the next level caps. If the next great weapon doesn't come from a new endgame it would also kill said endgame activities seing as we are completely unlikely to see exceptionnal boosts on gear ( see : haste, attack, str all capping, easily and since forever, acc being useless since pizza exists).

[Byrth]

Empyrean weapon (and relics) are unlikely to become the next best weapons. They are considered THE reward (with the AF3) of abyssea. It doesn't make sense to keep them going on after abyssea and after the next level caps. If the next great weapon doesn't come from a new endgame it would also kill said endgame activities seing as we are completely unlikely to see exceptionnal boosts on gear ( see : haste, attack, str all capping, easily and since forever, acc being useless since pizza exists).

So I guess you're proposing a new weapon line to be the "ultimate" weapons? I guess it could happen.

Empyreans = Abyssea "final weapon"
Relics = RotZ "final weapon"
Mythics = ToAU "final weapon"
WotG = lol freaking WotG.

[MarkovChain]

I'm not following this logic because previous extensions didn't come with level caps increase. I think AF3+2 will stop here and maybe weapon will get mediocre ToTM boosts with further levels. But technically wotg has some weapons, those with campaign only ws . They already said that they are going to bring new armors, so probably weapons too.

[Byrth]

I don't know, I don't get it.

Relics and Mythics were buffed up to 90 (+15/25% WS damage isn't nothing), why wouldn't Empyreans continue to be buffed? They're all expansion "final weapons." And yeah, I guess you could consider WotG's "final weapons" to be the campaign ones, but they're just so terrible outside of Campaign. Lex Talonis is notable for being the best slashing sword that Dancer can use, but that's about the only use I see for any of the weapons these days.

[Alhanelem]

Empyreans = Abyssea "final weapon"
Relics = RotZ "final weapon"
Mythics = ToAU "final weapon"
WotG = lol freaking WotG.
You left out

lol freaking CoP.

[Rambus]

At 85, I would have agreed with you. However, you're overlooking the trials to get them to 85 and 90. There's also no reason that weapons have to be equally easy to obtain.

Fistule (Easy) -> Bukhis (hardest of that tier) -> Alfard (Easy, but you need pops)
Glavoid (Hardest of that tier) -> Itzapapalotz (Mediocre because of Tunga) -> Orthrus (Easy to Mediocre due to pops)
Chloris (2nd Hardest) -> Ulhuldashi (Easy) -> Dragua (Easy)
Carabosse (Easy) -> Ciren (Easy) -> Isgebind (Easy, but hard to get help for)
Briarius (Mediocre) -> Sobek (Easy) -> Apademak (Hard)
Kulkulkan (Mediocre) -> Sedna (Mediocre to Difficult thanks to the fish) -> Azdaja (Hard)
Iron Giants (Easy) -> T3 VNMs (Hard to get pops for) -> Apademak/Azdaja (Hard)

Unless you're complaining that the Harp, Shield, and Staff are harder than the others, I don't think you have a case. Also, you need to keep in mind that future trials are doubtlessly being planned. The final version of all the weapons may end up being equally difficult to obtain.

I've always wondered why the lvl 80 versions dont give the WS, but the 85 versions give both WS and ODD, and the 90 versions just get some base dmg and 5 more stats.

Really the 80 versions should give WS only, 85 gives ODD, and 90 gives base D bonus. I realize they arent going to change it now, just wondered why they didnt do it that way in the beginning. (maybe they couldn't get their shit together and come up with the WSes on time?)


And according to your own chart there the gkt/gun/gswd is too easy.

I agree with what you said about the level 80 version, i said it my self before.

I also agree what you said about their chart, I would like getting emps have a bit more balance of attainability between one another. Some emps are also weak like drg then you have others that are very strong like war emp GA.

[Sama]

This game is never hard; what's causing the problem is you have to compete with 4000 others individuals on your server. Just try pop Vunkler T2 NM in weekend, you pro will see 50 people camping it, that's the real hard part.

[Dallas]

RE: staff trials

Arimaspi is worse than the peiste, needing a full pt. This is a painful trial.

Sedna is trivial. 2 pet jobs can duo the entire KI/boss line faster than an alliance can.

None of it matters, as the staff has no redeeming stats on it. There's one of these staves on my server that I can tell, and that player uses WHM only. I will probably be the first person to equip it in public.

[Elexia]

Only Chloris needs adjusting.

Period.

[Dart]

chloris is pretty easy to do if you know what you're doing.

cleave for him, can get 3/4 of his KI from cleaving (especially the hecteye, the most annoying one to pop manually)

Find someone doing glavoid path, you do your chloris. Spend a few hours cleaving everyday (or if you're a hardcore case most of a day), You'll be out of canyon in a week with some dedication. Its what I did and I was in/out in 6 days.

Mostly its getting the hecteye/tornbat wing KI's. The other two are so easy to farm manually that its just silly.

ninja edit: one key to speeding up the process is having a mule available. If you and your partner both have mules it will ,obviously, double your pops. Also be a bro to your ls mates and let them come on leech jobs but with the condition that they have to get a chloris/glavoid set then come pop the nm when its time. Feed them all the KI's you can, and manually farm the two easy ones for you and your mule. (ninja + whm can do everything easily even without superior gear).

[Mrbeansman]

I don't know about you but I did not spend 5 years getting a weapon to have it outdone by weapons that takes 1 week.

Also *** Bukhis.

[Raksha]

RE: staff trials

Sedna is trivial. 2 pet jobs can duo the entire KI/boss line faster than an alliance can.


This may be true if you aren't after +2 stuff, but proc'ing sedna is a royal ***.

[Ravenmore]

If all you going for is the weapon upgrades then proc'ing is not that important. Now if you taking others for KI holding they might want +2 items as reward for thier help, so yeah it could go either way.

[Atomic_Skull]

Only Chloris needs adjusting.

Period.

Chloris isn't as hard as Bukhis because it can't dispel your cruor buffs like Bukhis can.

[Mrbeansman]

Chloris isn't as hard as Bukhis because it can't dispel your cruor buffs like Bukhis can.

Bukhis is the defacto standard for mobs that you don't want to trust random people to help you kill.

[Atomic_Skull]

Bukhis is the defacto standard for mobs that you don't want to trust random people to help you kill.

Bukhis didn't always dispel cruor buffs but SE apparently didn't like the fact that the cruor Max HP Up buff prevents Max HP Down from sticking so Bukhis was ninja patched to overwrite the cruor HP buff, which results in it removing ALL cruor buffs for some reason.

[Dallas]

This may be true if you aren't after +2 stuff, but proc'ing sedna is a royal ***.

BLM can use Apoc Atma too. Throw one under the bus.

[Byrth]

Chloris is a total joke compared to Glavoid, and Bukhis is pretty easy to multi-brew. It isn't like he absorbs damage and potentially goes immune to magic.

[Mrbeansman]

Chloris is a total joke compared to Glavoid, and Bukhis is pretty easy to multi-brew. It isn't like he absorbs damage and potentially goes immune to magic.

Any luck on the duel wielding Twashtar front?

[Byrth]

Any luck on the duel wielding Twashtar front?

I've determined that it'll at least warn me if I can't have two. I'm on the VNM trials right now with 42/50 Glavoid shells and 5 unpopped sets, so I need at most three more and probably less.

Also, regardless of my whinery in the previous post, it's possible to kill Glavoid with two Aeolian Edges and a Detonation skillchain before he even tries to cast. It's really freaking close though, and easy to mess up.

[Alhanelem]

Considering the Staff WS itself is way worse than any others, and it being difficult to make, it is just another Claustrum. SE never did figure out how mage jobs works. It would seem they only play PLD, WAR and SAM.
What's bad about the staff ws? huge MP restore and cure status effects? It's a nice thing to have, it's just not for killing things. And the weapon boosts the WS' mod, like every other weapon, by a substantial amount. If you want perp - (which isn't really even needed on a weapon anymore) or MAB or whatever, then it's not the staff for you. If you are, like a select few, interested in a stronger weapon and/or a handy weaponskill that's especially great for when you don't want to touch the mob but you have TP to burn (very common in abyssea), it's great to have.

[blowfin]

Chloris is a total joke compared to Glavoid, and Bukhis is pretty easy to multi-brew. It isn't like he absorbs damage and potentially goes immune to magic.

Bukhis isn't that hard normally either, it's all relative though I guess when people are able to duo other trial NM's. People just freak out about doom and losing their buffs.

With regard to the weapons I think it's balanced pretty well when you look at the big picture and the 3 Abyssea trials. Gun/GK/GS are way easier than most though, maybe we'll never know why they balanced it that way. It's not like the jobs that utilize those weapons got much love in Abyss in many other areas though.


Empyrean weapon (and relics) are unlikely to become the next best weapons. They are considered THE reward (with the AF3) of abyssea. It doesn't make sense to keep them going on after abyssea and after the next level caps. If the next great weapon doesn't come from a new endgame it would also kill said endgame activities seing as we are completely unlikely to see exceptionnal boosts on gear ( see : haste, attack, str all capping, easily and since forever, acc being useless since pizza exists).

I'd be completely dumbfounded if they stopped empy trials at 90. Mainly because it would be a completely idiotic thing for them to do.

[MarkovChain]

I've determined that it'll at least warn me if I can't have two. I'm on the VNM trials right now with 42/50 Glavoid shells and 5 unpopped sets, so I need at most three more and probably less.

Also, regardless of my whinery in the previous post, it's possible to kill Glavoid with two Aeolian Edges and a Detonation skillchain before he even tries to cast. It's really freaking close though, and easy to mess up.


have your THF open with cyclone > cataclysm, win ? I'm not a brew specialist but this takes 70% of dragua's HP and beat self SC from aeolian edge.

[Kimble]

Why would you need to do that if you can just do two edges and kill it?

[Miera]

I agree with you and my LS members talk about it all the time. Glavoid is a pain in the butt to get, he's fairly easy to kill now that we have a few Emp. Weapons in the shell but actually getting his KIs are rediculous. I think the NMs in Tahrongi Canyon for Emp. Needs their POPs to be fixed. This is rediculous especially everyone wants Great Axe, H2H, Dagger, and Polearm.

I am working on my Bow at the moment, Fistule is a no brainer just the fact that you cannot stack his items right now is killing me, however Buhkis is my main concern for i cannot solo him like I can Fistule.

Is there any way we can take down Buhkis without throwing pets on it?

[macbain]

My brother just finished Buhkis solo on dnc, doing 4 pops per brew using Aeolian Edge.

[JiltedValkyrie]

I've tanked Bukhis on BRD/NIN (DD setup) so don't gimme the whole spiel about that NM being too hard. (no brew)

[Suirieko]

Chloris isn't as hard as Bukhis because it can't dispel your cruor buffs like Bukhis can.


It's not a matter of how difficult it is to FIGHT Chloris, it's a matter of how annoying it is to pop it.

You have to fight 8 NMs to get the key items:

Chukwa

Vetehinen -> Ophanim
Halimede -> ^
Also, have bloodshot hecteye as well.

Gacanagah -> Hedetet
also, have venomous scorpion stinger as well.

Cannered Noz -> Treble Noctules
also, have bloodied bat fang.

And yes, I know I know FC works too, but if you think about it, it COULD take longer since this is ultimately a matter of luck. You could be getting 10 Mossy Adamantoise shell til you finally see a Veinous Eyelid.

Difficult? No.

Annoying and time consuming? Yes, especially if you compare it to all the other empyreans.

[blowfin]

Is there any way we can take down Buhkis without throwing pets on it?

Without brewing blink tanking works pretty well, NIN is probably one of the better jobs. Removing HP down quickly is important if people do happen to get hit by TP moves. You also want holy water for removing doom, you can't block that one with shadows.


I've tanked Bukhis on BRD/NIN (DD setup) so don't gimme the whole spiel about that NM being too hard. (no brew)

If people have plenty of cruor and don't need drops from the NM where is the problem with brewing it?

[Zyeriis]

I've tanked Bukhis on BRD/NIN (DD setup) so don't gimme the whole spiel about that NM being too hard. (no brew)

Cause BRD/NIN tanking was never a viable way to tank in the game. *Cough* BRD/NIN tanking byakko, years ago, before getting a nerf to song enmity gain *cough*

Edit: Though I do agree, theres really no difficult abyssea NMs outside of Caturaes like Rani and a few select other NMs without brews. (Mostly saying your example is bad, not your point.)

[RaenRyong]

I've tanked Bukhis on BRD/NIN (DD setup) so don't gimme the whole spiel about that NM being too hard. (no brew)

How much support did you have? Level of support significantly changes when a mob is hard to tank to when you have a batallion of WHMs (the JP way) and a naked SMN could tank it.

[Zumi]

I don't know why people are complaining that Buhkis is hard. Because he is very easy to duo with monk and whm. As long as you the monk have some holy waters.

[sandman]

I'm upset that Chloris and Glavoid take three times longer to make pop sets for then the other nms (longer if there is competition for the time pop nm's). None of the trial NM's are difficult, I'm not implying they are, only popping them. Time has become the scarce commodity here.

[Miera]

I don't know why people are complaining that Buhkis is hard. Because he is very easy to duo with monk and whm. As long as you the monk have some holy waters.

Not everyone has a MNK or a WHM. Sadly I have neither, the only jobs i know best to work with this NM is having a NIN tank with a few Avatars on it.

[Akujima]

Not everyone has a MNK or a WHM. Sadly I have neither, the only jobs i know best to work with this NM is having a NIN tank with a few Avatars on it.

What!? You don't have MNK or WHM?! Blasphemy!

I'm going to send a report to the elitist council this instant, you'll hear from them shortly...

:D

[Atomic_Skull]

I don't know why people are complaining that Buhkis is hard. Because he is very easy to duo with monk and whm. As long as you the monk have some holy waters.

It's not the doom it's the fact that he dispells your cruor buffs. Also it's always a possibility that he will knock you down to less than 100 HP with max HP down and then smack you again and kill you faster than the WHM can react.

[sandman]

I love how Dev's avoid this issue when its brought up.

[Byrth]

By the way, I finished my Kartika path and it warned me that I wouldn't be able to hold the results of the trial (Twashtar) if I undertook the Glavoid Shells trial. It was the same warning that you get if you're trying to make an AF3+1/2 that you already have.

[Habiki]

It took me about a year to get mine, self funded. The amount of work it took to make that gil far outwighs anything else i've done in this game. Added to that it took a whole alliance to get the attestations and with their annoying randomness of drops and only having one shot at it per run (when we did icelands) etc compared to Emps that you can duo all the way more or less, STR magian weapons are more work.

If you looking at getting a relic and think you won't get it for around a year, that is in itself a difficultly level that scares off most. Knowing you can bash out an emp in a week or two makes it a far nicer prospect.

Regardless I don't think they will ever put relics back ontop to the level some seem to think. The whole idea for the game is now more casual and if anything they will make relics a lot easier to get and require vastly less coins.

They already said they weren't adjusting currency requirements for relics. So how are they going to make them easier, only thing I can see happening is relics and mythics will get magian trials to take them to lvl 99, while empyreans will be left at 90 since abyssea's over and done with and will still do about the same dmg or better then a relic due to aftermath and ws mods.

As it stands for empyreans trials theres still the same lvl of balance that relics have due to currency requirments differing between each weapon, obtaining a R. gold piece is much more time consuming then obtaining a 10000 byne bill. Just like obtaining a chloris pop is more time consuming then obtaining a carrabose pop, and it's all a joke to do unless you don't have a linkshell or friends to help.

People talk about empyreans being for the casual player but the casual player without an endgame ls will not see one for a very long time, if ever.

Most of the magian trials are much more time consuming to do then empyreans, suprised noone complains about any of those trials.

Theres no issue with the time it takes to complete an empyrian, the playerbase has just become lazy with an abyssea mindset and expects everything to be handed to them now on a silver platter.

[Zumi]

It's not the doom it's the fact that he dispells your cruor buffs. Also it's always a possibility that he will knock you down to less than 100 HP with max HP down and then smack you again and kill you faster than the WHM can react.

Dispel of curor buffs is only a minor inconvenience. I killed this many times with just myself on monk and a whm. When he does dispel curor buffs I am left with about 2600 HP down form 4200. Still never in danger of dying or anything. The only thing that this does really is make him die slightly slower due to the loss of str and dex.