Few ideas

[Seyes]

Hello guys ;)

First of all, forgive my bad english ; I'm french. I post here because the french forum is less "alive" :p Well, let me present you few ideas that I want for smn.


1. Spirit + favor = ?
Yeah, why spirits can't get an add effect when they're under favor ? A friend of mine told me an idea that I found cool : put a spirir under favor could do a weather aura ^^
The three first tier (based on smn skill) could provide weather x1, the next others weather x2.
I really think that it's an idea that dev's should think of. What do you think about ?


2. Avatar Elemental resistance joke...
Do you think it's normal that our avatars have less resistance than a slug ? Really, they are like tiny elemental gods but they can be kill by their own element... It's stupid... More now we're near lvl99. In other hand, I understand they can't give them an absorb effect... But I really want, at least, a full resist proc rate system based on smn skill. Higher your smn skill is, higher your avatars will 100% resist their own element.

3. Astral flow : Ward
Why avatars could only show us their might with offensive action ? When Alexander was release, I began to imagine that all avatars should have a defensive Astral flow. I propose two paths :
- Big elemental protection for 2-3 min. Example with Shiva => enblizzard II, baraero like shiva one, ice spikes, INT+ based on Shiva INT.
- Special action for each avatar (Benediction-like for Carbuncle, HP-MP max % boost for Diabolos, full negative status effect protection for Leviathan, etc.

4.New avatars
I pass the Atomos section and Bahamut dream lol... I don't want Bahamut if you want to know, because I think that Bahamut must stay a "too might for us" avatar ^^
Well, however, let me show my thoughts about elemental logic problem : we have one avatar by principal element, two for dark and.... only ONE for light ! And well... which one... our little tiny Carbuncle... So we really missed a new real light elemental avatar and this one could be...... Fairy.

Yeah ! Fairy. I'm not really a good designer but I think her like a mix between "giant pixie + Artemis goddess" and here are few of her abilities that I want for her :

- BP rage : an anmesia attack (i really want this !), a REAL light magical attack, a good ranged attack (I imagine her with a big bow so maybe all her attacks will be ranged)

- BP ward : RR2-ga, Regen3-ga, ranged attack+ and/or ranged accuracy+

- Favor : Regain ! (+0.5 per tier, 2.5 max) or Store TP (+5 per tier, +25 max) (I prefer the regain :p )

- Astral flow rage : light magical attack that depends on party members HP, less HP all members have, more powerful the attack will be (dead ones will count)

- Astral flow ward : Raise-ga, no weak, full HP (yeah... bye bye Phoenix lol)


Well, that's all for me now... So, what do you think ? ^^



PS : again, sorry for english mistakes :x

[Soranika]

1. Spirit + favor = ?
No. It's called Avatar's Favor for a reason.


2. Avatar Elemental resistance joke...
That's not true. Avatars have great resistance when taking magical damage of the same element. I think what you are annoyed with is the fact that avatars have no way to absorb the magical damage that is the same as theirs.


3. Astral flow : Ward
Until they actually adjust current Astral Flow blood pacts or at the very least expand on Astral Flow by giving new blood pacts that actually do as the description of the abilities says, there's no reason to do so. Your suggestions could either be seen as overpowering or easy for SE to screw up. Also, all avatars have the same stats. Shiva does not have more or less INT over any other avatar.


4.New avatars
Err, we're getting Atomos and Cait Sith.

[Calysto]

1. nice idea (but just make it simple weather and stacking with sch's storm or they'll complain)
even if they are not "avatar" per se it would make perfect sense to have something like that.(elementals symbolise weather on vanadiel after all)

2. not really needed. i guess a chance to take 0 dmg would be nice, but that's not a priority i'd say

3. could be interesting. not sure the exemples are good, but some nice buffs(or debuffs) added for new 2h bp could see some use.

Your suggestions could either be seen as overpowering or easy for SE to screw up.
not sure what could be screw up about giving new options. as for overpowered, would not be for dmg since that wouldn't be the purpose(still have the asralflow mp requirement too)

4. fairy sounds good(make her the white/blue pixie model please ^^; ), but i'd see her more like a "light spirit+1"(only cast cures/regen/buffs/raise) with improved AI(sea new automaton AI) and somewhat shortened recast time (and without the lame "cure/buff pj by sight" light spirit has)

also, why not give smn the "dual spirits" from heroes of abssea?(i guess spirits aren't what most smn want, so maybe making them a bit mode controlable that the classic spirits would help ?)


Err, we're getting Atomos and Cait Sith.
waiting them since what ? 2-3 years ? with no news at all for server test or anything ?
better start planning now if you want another before the servers shut down. >.>

[Soranika]

not sure what could be screw up about giving new options. as for overpowered, would not be for dmg since that wouldn't be the purpose(still have the asralflow mp requirement too)Carbuncle getting a ward similar to benediction under Astral Flow? That's a total of three times in three minutes you can use that. Probably more once we have the ability to shorten blood pact timers through the suggested ability SE put in their job vision notes.


waiting them since what ? 2-3 years ? with no news at all for server test or anything ?
better start planning now if you want another before the servers shut down. >.>Atomos and Cait Sith were only announced a several months ago, not 2-3 years ago. They are simply just not ready yet for testing phase.

In my own opinion, none of these sound like a good ideal to pitch. Cait Sith and... I guess regrettably Atomos is enough for new summons. I don't like like the ideal of Atomos since it's another two hour summon but again, opinion. The only kind of logical new summonable avatars would Bahamut, Phoenix, and Dark Ixion. Both of which SE have already stated will not be given to us. There's no reason to ask for new avatars that do not exist in the story just for the sake of having. Current avatars and their blood pacts need adjustments if they aren't going to give us new blood pact: rages to match the progressing rate of other jobs and their abilities.

Also, the any type of fay summon is not something in Summoner's grasp on FFXI. Fay creatures (pixie/sprites family) are not astral or elemental beings. They are a living creature along the same lines of other mobs and beastmen in the game. They should not be summonable as a "light spirit 2.0".

[Calysto]

Carbuncle getting a ward similar to benediction under Astral Flow?

i never said it should be a "benedicton" i even said the exemples weren't good.
now what would prevent SE to do theses while not "stealing every 2h". new ward bp useable with 2h only.
op also gave for exemple an "elemental buff". bar+spike+enspell+some stat hardly seems overpowered to me.

and the "oh woes it's too overpowered" is still ballanced by the mp requirement unless you go heavy on ethers or are in abyssea witch already is a joke.


There's no reason to ask for new avatars that do not exist in the story just for the sake of having

that's the reason i said i saw it more like a spirit.
in that regard, cait sith isn't really an avatar either.


Fay creatures (pixie/sprites family) are not astral or elemental beings. They are a living creature along the same lines of other mobs and beastmen in the game.

pixies ARE part in the "elemental family".
as for them being "living creature"... it's heartless and insultig to spirits. they are too and have feelings, you know ?
also, having them as "spirits" let them keep their free will.

[Soranika]

i never said it should be a "benedicton" i even said the exemples weren't good.
now what would prevent SE to do theses while not "stealing every 2h". new ward bp useable with 2h only.
op also gave for exemple an "elemental buff". bar+spike+enspell+some stat hardly seems overpowered to me.

and the "oh woes it's too overpowered" is still ballanced by the mp requirement unless you go heavy on ethers or are in abyssea witch already is a joke.
Did you bother to read the examples of the ideals that the OP posted that I pulled from. Those types of buffs are already entertained by SE as normal wards. But aside from that, what you suggest isn't overpowering, ultimately it's useless.

Astral Flow was generally modeled after summoning in previous FF titles to deal extreme damage. Didn't really work out until... well if SE actually adjust them to work as they suggests.


that's the reason i said i saw it more like a spirit.
in that regard, cait sith isn't really an avatar either.
You're speaking in technicality. SE has deemed it doable to give us Cait Sith. It's always been ambiguous about what Cait Sith really is but an astral being, hence forth SE has been working on make Cait Sith summonable by SMNs.



pixies ARE part in the "elemental family".
as for them being "living creature"... it's heartless and insultig to spirits. they are too and have feelings, you know ?
also, having them as "spirits" let them keep their free will.Misspoke on that part, but stop riding wiki. Elementals are physical embodiment of the elements. No feelings, no soul, no heart. Nothing more than a mass of energy/magic whatever you want to call it.

Pixies are still living creatures, that is evident in their behavior towards the players. Kill them, they fear you. Release them from bottles, they assist you if you're in trouble. Light magic isn't the only thing Pixies use either. Many, if not, of their TP moves are wind based. Also evident that they drop wind crystals, not light.

[Calysto]

>.<

i didn't make any suggestion for theses 2h wards, stop making me say what i didn't say.
i just refered to the OP. whatever SE do if they ever think it's a good idea is up to them you should trust them to keep some balance.


You're speaking in technicality
isn't that what you did from the start ?


stop riding wiki
stop denying any point i make. i didn't wait you to know what family pixies are or do.
also, your claims on elementals aren't backed by anything.

the way you seems to block any idea isn't going to help anything. way to go.
now, i guess i'll stop posting on this thread. as the saying goes, i shouldn't feed you.

[Soranika]

I never said you made that particular suggestion. Seyes, did. I was using that as an example. I guess I didn't make it clear in separation of the sentences after towards the suggestions you made in your post.


stop denying any point i make. i didn't wait you to know what family pixies are or do.
also, your claims on elementals aren't backed by anything.
I wasn't denying anything, I admitted that I misspoke. You're denying/ignoring that there's a specific difference between elementals and pixies just because it isn't any explicit details other than they are classified under the same umbrella classification as elemental family.


the way you seems to block any idea isn't going to help anything.
If it's redundant or out of place, yes. Most suggestions I've read through the forums ask for some radical or pointless shift in what the job suppose to preform. Given this is the official forums where SE *apparently* read and take suggestions into consideration, objecting is the way to weed out silly suggestions and look towards something more doable and within the confines of the job than wishful thinking out of personal fantasy that doesn't fit the game or job.


i shouldn't feed you.
If you're assuming I'm a troll on the basis that I disagree... -shrugs- Think what you will. I'm not a very agreeable person to begin with.

[Calysto]

well, since you say you are not trolling(and just as a reply/derail)...

what got me was you were disagreeing with everything on this thread, while nothing seems really wrong with the op suggestions(to me), neither really silly or not doable since pretty much everything already exist.

guess we just don't think about that the same way.

i aggree some suggestion are silly, but often because the posters go too much into details/exemples(like some here).
the general idea may need some work, but there's way to do something with it.

i just don't want "weed out" as i don't know what can bloom from it,
i'd rather water it, and watch as others people do the same, hoping in the end it'll be a pretty flower :p

in the end, it's SE that really weed out, sure they'll look at your big tree, but if it doen't please them, all your garden will have is a stump. i'd rather have it with a flower path.

[Tannlore]

in the end, it's SE that really weed out, sure they'll look at your big tree, but if it doen't please them, all your garden will have is a stump. i'd rather have it with a flower path.


*pokes his head in for undesired off-topic comment*

Personally, I'd rather it be like the giving tree! Stump so I can sit myself down on when I'm old! To heck with flowers!!!

*Shakes fist*

*teleports out*

[Sonshou]

This thread sparkles me with new idea.

I think it would be nice if our 2hr BP has 0 reuse time.

First when we use those BP all MP are drained, and these BP has minimal MP cost.
The only way we can use it right away is to use Ether. but then there is dely when using Ether
So it doesn't make SMN over power if they take away the reuse time of 2hr BPs

For DNC their sub ability sharing the same timer can have different reuse time, so there is not a technical difficulty in there.

I know this might not improve SMN a lot, but this is my idea to empower SMN a tiny little bit.

[Soranika]

This thread sparkles me with new idea.

I think it would be nice if our 2hr BP has 0 reuse time.

First when we use those BP all MP are drained, and these BP has minimal MP cost.
The only way we can use it right away is to use Ether. but then there is dely when using Ether
So it doesn't make SMN over power if they take away the reuse time of 2hr BPs

For DNC their sub ability sharing the same timer can have different reuse time, so there is not a technical difficulty in there.

I know this might not improve SMN a lot, but this is my idea to empower SMN a tiny little bit.
Uh, yes. Yes it does. Well implying it does if astral flow blood pacts actually did the damage that it said it does. Bare with me.

There are many ways to instantly recover MP than what there use to be. At 95, SMN need a minimum of 190 MP to fire off a blood pact ward. It would take multiple hi-ethers to recover that amount. At 10 seconds for each use, it'll take 40 seconds just to use one, maybe more with the delay between item use offset by refresh. Hi-ether +3 in two, bring it around 20-25 seconds. No smn in their right mind would turn to pro-ethers so let's trade up.

Elixirs restores 25% in 10 seconds of use, given item delay, around 12 seconds to use that blood pact. Average SMN has around 1.5k which translate into around, if not over 375MP restored. This allows a an astral flow blood pact to fire off every 12 seconds.

Now let's look into the abundance of temp items.
Most of these temp items that can restore MP in Abyssea and VW (were a SMN will be mostly active these days), can be used in a second flat without item delay.

Now also, do not forget Blood Pact: Rages and Wards share their each global timer, respectfully. Considering that there are no Ward astral flows (Alexander's Perfect Defense does not share Blood Pact ward timer, Nor does Odin share rage), the originals do. Unless SE goes in to fix the it where the astral flow blood pacts under rage are separate on timer, being under your version of Astral Flow would make all Blood Pact: Rages spammable for the duration of 3 minutes or for how many times one can quickly get their MP to 190, which isn't hard.

Alternatively, if the blood pact timer for Astral Flow was fixed to have it's own timer, one could spam just that, or use astral flow blood pact, recover MP, follow up with rage because the blood pact timer is nil, then for the timer and go in and do the same thing.... or just keep spamming the Astral Flow blood pact because why the hell not? That way wouldn't fix things, it would make the job even more uneven to the point of being broken than what it's currently leaning towards. Granted, I see use with crowd control, but through the use of astral flow just isn't viable enough to use it as such.

The way Blood Pacts work from DNC is widely different. Astral Flow blood pacts seem to have been the way they are for restraint reasons. Lest not forget that because Astral Flow blood pacts share that same global timer, they are effected by Blood Pact timer reduction gear.

[Economizer]

I think it would be nice if our 2hr BP has 0 reuse time.

SMN + Hvergelmir.

SMN/SAM (For SMN/RDM, replace the extra Sekkanoki / Myrkr / Bloodpact with Convert / Bloodpact).


Refresh or Receive Refresh
Astral Flow
Bloodpact
Myrkr
Meditate
Bloodpact
Recieve Shikikoyo
Sekkanoki
Myrkr
Bloodpact
Myrkr
Bloodpact
Recieve Devotion or Shikioyo + Myrkr
Bloodpact
Repeat previous two steps up to three more times (or more if you are shuffling people in and out of your party).
Use any temp MP restoration items, and Vile Elixir, Vile Elixir +1 you have.
Bloodpact
Repeat
Use any wing items (temps first)
Myrkr
Bloodpact
Repeat last three steps up to two more times.


I think that with the animation delay of your avatar, you'd run out before you could perform everything in this list even, although with the list I could see being able to use 10~15+ Bloodpacts, ignoring time limits. Even assuming a 15 second delay between each Bloodpact, you'd be able to use a Bloodpact about 11 times (10s delay means around 16 times with some leeway).

So the question is, is 10-15 Bloodpacts overpowered?

[Seyes]

Huh ?! I didn't think my post would start WWIII ^^;

Really Soranika, you think my ideas are so crazy ? I saw many and many others that are "dream-like". Callysto was right on one thing, it's just few general ideas that I wanted to give, like seeds that dev will examine and decide how feed them to let them grow up as they think better.

Yeah my benediction-like for Carbuncle was not my better idea, so what ? Our radioactive squirrel loves to heal us, that's why I take this benediction idea but I'm not dev'... They have to "over-think" our ideas lol

And about Fairy, yeah you're right... No storyline for that.... and we're going to have Atomos and little cat ... so what again ? Do you really think each avatar got his wonderful and very looooong storyline ? No... So why Fairy would have one ? They can make us a little 2-3 quests-storyline with the pixie in Grauberg or anythig else, I don't care... Again, dev have brains (don't worry about mine -_-) so let them suprise us... I really think Fairy could be a surprising avatar ^^

[Malamasala]

So the question is, is 10-15 Bloodpacts overpowered?

Well it depends. Is it 10-15 Bloodpacts, or a party of 18 SMNs doing 180-270 pacts? This game after all seem to always be balanced based on if you brought 18 of a job.

[Saiken253]

and then the NM does an AoE to kill all the Empy SMNs that are meleeing yay~

[Economizer]

NM does an AoE to kill all the Empy SMNs

Not too hard to get TP safely, and you don't have to be remotely near a mob to use Myrkr. Empyrean SMN are quite safe.