DRK Ws Entropy

[Urteil]

This weaponskill does subpar damage and has a poorly thought out effect, not to mention making no sense thematically with "Dark Knight."

I'm not sure why we can't get a WS that's better than guillotine. Why do you keep making these terrible clones that are useless in function?

It does not even "aspir" mp, it merley recovers MP. DRK is not a WHM or a RDM it does not recover things, it takes things from the target. At least with the terrible damage this WS does for 5/5 merits one would expect at the very least:


For it to steal MP.

DRK is not a WHM, or a RDM, or a PLD. It does not recover, it drains/aspirs/absorbs.

Make the WS steal MP from the target at the very least so it has some utility and is worth using in this small regard, and on top of that if we had some magic that was used readily it would be less baffling.


On that note I'm not quite sure when this WS will be used, DRK has little to no reason to consistently cast magic, because SE refuses to give us much in the way of casting.

Am I using my MP on some amazing Darkness based magical attack that you haven't released yet?

Why?
Why?
Why?

[Raelia]

Stealing MP still won't make it a better WS (You will never fully deplete a mob's MP pool, so what's the difference). I can understand the thematic argument though.

As it stands now it's actually worse than Guillotine just in damage terms, a WS we'll have gotten 39 levels prior! So long as the only use of the WS is for regaining MP, which a DRK should rarely require since Refresh is now accessible to all supports /RDM, the WS is practically worthless.


I ask: Why is DRK barred from having a critical hit WS? Leave Entropy as it is in terms of mods and multiplier and allow it to critical hit. With an INT mod it would be a very interesting WS to gear for and still rather regulated in damage, but also put DRK in much better territory in Abyssea and taking advantage of Blood Rage when in party with a WAR among other things.

SE seems to be following strange rules about developing new Scythe WS. Guillotine, Insurgency, and now Entropy are all four-hit WS with interesting effects but practically the same in form and damage. SE is so shy to give DRK's signature weapon, Scythe and only Scythe, a single decent WS that it now gets completely outshined by Great Sword for both single-hit WS damage and multihit WS damage.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

So..... You'd want it to be useless against certain enemies... right!!! Why?

[Chamaan]

The real question is why don't ANY of these WS crit?

[Raelia]

The real question is why don't ANY of these WS crit?
Because every other melee DD already has a crit WS. These new WS still perform well outside of Abyssea, even tending to outperform Empyrean WS. EXCEPT SCYTHE!

WAR: Ukko's Fury, Raging Rush, Rampage
BST: Rampage
NIN: Blade: Jin, Blade: Hi
THF, DNC (even BRD): Evisceration
BLU (and RDM, and PLD): Chant du Cygne, Vorpal Blade
MNK: Victory Smite, Ascetic's Fury
PUP: Stringing Pummel, V. Smite
DRG: Drakesbane
SAM: Is SAM, free and constant self-SC easily makes up for no Crit WS now.


With Scythe's completely stagnant WS progression, why doesn't it at least get the option of a crit WS to compete with what seems to be standard for every other melee DD in the game? I'm not proposing for Abyssea, but just in general at this point! Great Sword gets very high multiplier (fTP) weaponskills (on the order of 1.5-2x stronger than Scythe) so critical compatibility isn't a huge factor for GS being competitive, but Scythe is so constrained in the same that it now serves almost no purpose except 1. Silence from Guillotine and 2. MP recovery from Entropy. Even Quietus barely surpasses Guillotine!

Scythe gets out-Weaponskilled by Pet jobs FFS.

Anything that pigeonholed in FFXI tends to just be ignored.

[Vold]

People always forget about vorpal scythe because it's not Ukko's Fury or something.

Sad news about these WSs, though. Merit based. Not doing much damage. I guess the days of good ole questing for your rewards really is over. But perhaps with enough outcry about the related merit costs will get these new WSs the kind of damage they're going to need to be bothered with by players.

[Raelia]

People always forget about vorpal scythe because it's not Ukko's Fury or something.
We forget about Vorpal Scythe because even with crit buffs in Abyssea it still underperforms Guillotine.

That the level 60 Scythe WS is the gold standard for every WS the weapon type has is the long standing issue here. Now that Greatsword has a five hit WS for using with Souleater up, Scythe serves zero purpose for damage output.

SE giving Scythe another Guillotine clone is bordering on a sick joke.

[Urteil]

Because giving DRK spirit taker is retarded, glad you agree.

Catastrophe already doesn't steal HP, but at least when it can it does.

They gave DRK spirit taker, see it for what it really is, and the poorly executed farce of an attempt that it is.

[Urteil]

So..... You'd want it to be useless against certain enemies... right!!! Why?

You're right. Drain and Aspir should work on undead, so should catastrophe.


However DRK "recovering" things is silly, we take things.

[Raelia]

Remove the MP regain effect completely, keep the same animation, and make Entropy hit eight times (twice per swing of the animation) :3

Yes I'm serious. This would negate Double Attack and Triple Attack affecting the WS at all and you still only land all eight hits about 66% of the time with capped accuracy just like Asuran Fists. It makes gearing for the WS very balanced (Accuracy, Attack, INT) while still maintaining decent performance just like how Guillotine used to be but balanced against newer WS

Eight hits is not overpowered mind you. Torcleaver is 4.75 to 6.5 fTP and with a double attack becomes 5.75-7.5, triple attack 6.75-8.5, and a major portion of that damage will always land 95% of the time (capped accuracy 1st hit) so accuracy is not practically necessary for the majority of it's damage.

Entropy as an eight hit WS, however, would be subject to accuracy on each hit (only the first guaranteed to be 95%). Even with capped accuracy, this demonstrates about an average 5.3 fTP after miss rate is considered.

This would give Scythe and DRK the ultimate multihit WS for Souleater usage and general damage output, and returns to ye olde Accuracy standard for WS since the Guillotine era. It would actually be balanced against the current supremity of Torcleaver, doesn't require that DRK be added to the Critical WS Extravaganza, and allows extreme e-peen spike damage output with Souleater (without such being totally suicidal since the addition of Stalwart Soul, or just the same as Souleater+Guillotine used to be!)

[Babygyrl]

The real question is why don't ANY of these WS crit?

I think if these ws's were crit, they'd be too powerful.

[Urteil]

Remove the MP regain effect completely, keep the same animation, and make Entropy hit eight times (twice per swing of the animation) :3

Yes I'm serious. This would negate Double Attack and Triple Attack affecting the WS at all and you still only land all eight hits about 66% of the time with capped accuracy just like Asuran Fists. It makes gearing for the WS very balanced (Accuracy, Attack, INT) while still maintaining decent performance just like how Guillotine used to be but balanced against newer WS

Eight hits is not overpowered mind you. Torcleaver is 4.75 to 6.5 fTP and with a double attack becomes 5.75-7.5, triple attack 6.75-8.5, and a major portion of that damage will always land 95% of the time (capped accuracy 1st hit) so accuracy is not practically necessary for the majority of it's damage.

Entropy as an eight hit WS, however, would be subject to accuracy on each hit (only the first guaranteed to be 95%). Even with capped accuracy, this demonstrates about an average 5.3 fTP after miss rate is considered.

This would give Scythe and DRK the ultimate multihit WS for Souleater usage and general damage output, and returns to ye olde Accuracy standard for WS since the Guillotine era. It would actually be balanced against the current supremity of Torcleaver, doesn't require that DRK be added to the Critical WS Extravaganza, and allows extreme e-peen spike damage output with Souleater (without such being totally suicidal since the addition of Stalwart Soul, or just the same as Souleater+Guillotine used to be!)

I'm down, this whole mp recover through WS is retarded anyway. Make the WS hit hard.

If any WS should have done it, it should have been Infernal Scythe as a homage to FF Tactics.

[Raelia]

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/042f661204c63ba2f2ae2c1a230fcfac.png
DRK is now out-WS'ed by SMNs with Shattersoul. What a joke!

Let's get serious SE: Make Entropy eight hits (two hits per swing of the animation). Let DRK have it's glorious Souleater WS numbers again!

[Atomic_Skull]

Remove the MP regain effect completely, keep the same animation, and make Entropy hit eight times (twice per swing of the animation) :3

Yes I'm serious. This would negate Double Attack and Triple Attack affecting the WS at all and you still only land all eight hits about 66% of the time with capped accuracy just like Asuran Fists. It makes gearing for the WS very balanced (Accuracy, Attack, INT) while still maintaining decent performance just like how Guillotine used to be but balanced against newer WS

Eight hits is not overpowered mind you. Torcleaver is 4.75 to 6.5 fTP and with a double attack becomes 5.75-7.5, triple attack 6.75-8.5, and a major portion of that damage will always land 95% of the time (capped accuracy 1st hit) so accuracy is not practically necessary for the majority of it's damage.

Entropy as an eight hit WS, however, would be subject to accuracy on each hit (only the first guaranteed to be 95%). Even with capped accuracy, this demonstrates about an average 5.3 fTP after miss rate is considered.

This would give Scythe and DRK the ultimate multihit WS for Souleater usage and general damage output, and returns to ye olde Accuracy standard for WS since the Guillotine era. It would actually be balanced against the current supremity of Torcleaver, doesn't require that DRK be added to the Critical WS Extravaganza, and allows extreme e-peen spike damage output with Souleater (without such being totally suicidal since the addition of Stalwart Soul, or just the same as Souleater+Guillotine used to be!)

So basically you want a WS that's equal to Torcleaver for free.

[Raelia]

So basically you want a WS that's equal to Torcleaver for free.

As if Torcleaver is hard to get?

Torcleaver gives you ODD Aftermath. That's the difference. Scythe does not compete without this and they sure as hell aren't going to buff Quietus (the last laughable Scythe WS they added) at this point.

At the same time it would suffer much more performance falloff than even Torcleaver against higher level targets, with Quietus then being the fallback.

But I suppose you just want to pidgeonhole DRK into 'GS or GTFO'? Meanwhile GS just got a five hit WS to use with Souleater and/or Torc aftermath is still going, and also made all non-Caladbolg 6-hits a magnitude easier to maintain, you wanna talk about getting things 'for free'?

[Transam]

I will have to completely agree with all the frustrated DRKs out there. DRK was my main for over 2 years and eventually I just dropped the class truly believing that Square-Enix had improvements in store for every job EXCEPT Dark Knight. This has continually been the case with Insurgency and the newer 290+ skill elemental weapon skills for great sword and scythe. Every class has gotten some form of enhancement that I can honestly say I use on a regular basis when playing the job. DRK has not gotten anything impressive since Absorb-TP and Dread Spikes. I think the DRKs out there would like a weapon skill that would either have damage modified by TP (and not 300%, that's a joke) or doesn't need /THF to force a critical hit with sneak attack. I still want to play DRK and love the concept of the job. Cecil ftw! I just can't stomach the mediocrity of DRK. I don't need a weapon skill that has critical hits although it would be nice seeing as SE went through the trouble of giving DRK critical attack bonus and all. There's just so much about DRK that just doesn't add up. I just feel like there's no DRK fans out there in the SE development team.

[Detoxy]

This weaponskill does subpar damage and has a poorly thought out effect, not to mention making no sense thematically with "Dark Knight."

I'm not sure why we can't get a WS that's better than guillotine. Why do you keep making these terrible clones that are useless in function?

It does not even "aspir" mp, it merley recovers MP. DRK is not a WHM or a RDM it does not recover things, it takes things from the target. At least with the terrible damage this WS does for 5/5 merits one would expect at the very least:


For it to steal MP.

DRK is not a WHM, or a RDM, or a PLD. It does not recover, it drains/aspirs/absorbs.

Make the WS steal MP from the target at the very least so it has some utility and is worth using in this small regard, and on top of that if we had some magic that was used readily it would be less baffling.


On that note I'm not quite sure when this WS will be used, DRK has little to no reason to consistently cast magic, because SE refuses to give us much in the way of casting.

Am I using my MP on some amazing Darkness based magical attack that you haven't released yet?

Why?
Why?
Why?
Watch This Vid Entropy aint that bad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDUZGQTWvzc&feature=channel_video_title

[Daniel_Hatcher]

You need to think outside PvP, this game is not a PvP game.

[Ophannus]

WS that crit aren't that amazing outside of Abyssea, only the Empyrean Crit WS because they have a 15-20% base crit rate. Drakesbane is like 5% crit and with outstanding gear does maybe 900-2k(with a mean of like 1200) while Ukko fury does consistant 2600-3400 from what I've seen/noticed in my shell. Just cuz a WS crits doesn't mean it will be good outside of Abyssea.

[Mirage]

So basically you want a WS that's equal to Torcleaver for free.

100 merits
Free

Pick one

[Raelia]

100 merits

Having not taken a moment to total it up, I can now see that '1,000,000 exp' was not hyperbole XD

That's the equivalent of going from level 1 to level 80 now. All for one WS. Can we agree Entropy needs to be much better to be worth that?

[Clou777]

http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/042f661204c63ba2f2ae2c1a230fcfac.png
DRK is now out-WS'ed by SMNs with Shattersoul. What a joke!

Let's get serious SE: Make Entropy eight hits (two hits per swing of the animation). Let DRK have it's glorious Souleater WS numbers again!

ok now what atma was that with?

[Raelia]

ok now what atma was that with?

Not sure how much that matters. Show me someone breaking 5k with Quietus in Abyssea... or even 4k... or even 3k more than twice in a row...

Scythe is getting beat in WS power by non-Empyrean staff. Something is wrong.

[Urteil]

You need to think outside PvP, this game is not a PvP game.

Get half as good at me at PvE, link your forum account to a real character, or level beyond six then maybe your nonsense can be taken 3% seriously.

Just because you're terrible doesn't mean the "isn't" something, there's a good PvP system and pretty decent PvE system.

WS doesn't make any sense, anywhere.


L2Pnab.

[xiozen]

So much QQ over the new weaponskills... I maxed out Entropy and Resolution(sp), as well as Shinjin Spiral... tested all three...

My conclusions: Victory smite and Stringing Pummel will still be #1 for damage dealing--"however"--for longer fights, I can definitely see situational use for Shinjin, due to it's application of plague... so cheers for a weaponskill that provides strategic usage.

Entropy... My play style on DRK really appreciates this weaponskill. I tend to cast "ALOT" of magic, rarely do I spend time nuking unless in abyssea, lacking any other form of nuking magic for building azure lights, DRK can do that solo... my issue when doing this was running out of MP and spamming either the martellos (w/ their 12-20 min cooldown) hoping I have enough temp items or hoping to get chests with MP restoring items... thx to this weaponskill those days will be gone. The MP restore effect is AWESOME. DRK doesn't need another Guillotine. I am a DRK and I love the job... but having 2, 3 or 4 weaponskills that do relatively the same dmg is a little excessive. That being said: I don't believe the weapon skill needs to be changed in the slightest. /cheers from me SE

Resolution (sp)... apparently this weaponskill is for dmg...so that being said, I compared it to Torcleaver... and I was pleasantly impressed. The final numbers for dmg varied a little wildly, sometimes Resolution would do 1700 dmg w/ slightly more tp than the previous weaponskill, but the previous weaponskill would have done 2400 dmg... a little difficult to understand why such a huge difference when there was such a small variation in tp.

I tested H2H on pots--due to their natural weakness to blunt... then went to Altepa and tested Gsword and Scythe on Dhamels.

All 3 weapon skills were 5/5 in merits... I will definitely go w/ H2H 5/5... Gsword is a winner at 5/5 for DRK... unsure whether or not Entropy is worth 5/5. (The MP restored effect was potent... i was down to 30 mp and one 100+tp Entropy restored my mp pool to max (500+)). So far, that's my quick 1 hour run on the test server w/ those 3 weapon skills.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Get half as good at me at PvE, link your forum account to a real character, or level beyond six then maybe your nonsense can be taken 3% seriously.

Just because you're terrible doesn't mean the "isn't" something, there's a good PvP system and pretty decent PvE system.

WS doesn't make any sense, anywhere.


L2Pnab.

Haha, was worth it... now not worth it. I don't think you're as good as what you think you are... tragic!

To SE: Make it stronger, but DON'T make it an aspir effect like this person is asking for.

[Soidisant]

The WS just needs to be made stronger.

Either

Change the modifier to STR and first hit modifier to somewhere between 1.5-2.0
OR
Leave as INT modifier and make the first hit modifier 2.25-2.5


At the moment it is just Guillotine with MP recovery. And extra MP is not what DRK needs to bridge the massive gulf in damage between DRK and top tier DD's.

[Tohihroyu]

Why don't they just give drks the ability to use a staff? get Spirit taker way earlier... :|

Maybe its SE's way of making all scythe drk retire their scythes to use great sword & great swords only?

[hiko]

daniel_hatcher and soidisant are right, WS just need to do more dmg!

[Kitkat]

While the MP return is...ok, I can see why everyone is complaining about the damage from this WS. Not only do you have to gear far differently to enhance it, it still isn't nearly as good as sticking with Gsword WS. The only other good thing this WS has going for it is how it looks >.> but who uses a WS for its looks?

[Raelia]

So with news that Entropy is almost certainly 0.75 across all hits, this makes it weaker than Cross Reaper!

If it can be made 0.75 across all hits, changing Entropy to eight hits (two hits per swing) is exactly what's needed to make Scythe relevant again.

[Prothscar]

Then you run into a little issue called hit rate. The only acceptable solution is to increase the fTP straight up, maybe change the INT modifier to STR but that's not wholly necessary. If it means dropping the MP drain aspect, I doubt many DRKs would shed a tear.

[Raelia]

Then you run into a little issue called hit rate. The only acceptable solution is to increase the fTP straight up, maybe change the INT modifier to STR but that's not wholly necessary. If it means dropping the MP drain aspect, I doubt many DRKs would shed a tear.

At 0.75 a hit, eight hits would be a 6.0 fTP. Multiply that by capped 95% hitrate and you get an average 5.7 fTP. Consider that you can throw a +25 TP Bonus moonshade earring and at least 25% Double Attack rate at Torcleaver for 6.0+ fTP and it falls into a very nice balance since Entropy would need an accuracy build. The INT mod can stay because Accuracy will be most important.

Drop the MP Recovery. Make the WS hit twice per swing of the animation for eight hits at 0.75 fTP. Now Scythe finally has a decent WS and DRK is competitive with their signature weapon again.

[Neisan_Quetz]

New scythe weaponskill underperforming? Working as intended.

SE's just trolling you all at this point.

[Prothscar]

At 0.75 a hit, eight hits would be a 6.0 fTP. Multiply that by capped 95% hitrate and you get an average 5.7 fTP. Consider that you can throw a +25 TP Bonus moonshade earring and at least 25% Double Attack rate at Torcleaver for 6.0+ fTP and it falls into a very nice balance since Entropy would need an accuracy build. The INT mod can stay because Accuracy will be most important.

Drop the MP Recovery. Make the WS hit twice per swing of the animation for eight hits at 0.75 fTP. Now Scythe finally has a decent WS and DRK is competitive with their signature weapon again.

Much more elegant solution would still be to just raise the fTP altogether rather than having each hit count as two. 95% hit rate is costly to maintain on anything worthwhile.

1.75 fTP on the first hit and a standard 1.0 like most any other multihit WS would be enough.

[Raelia]

You will never have a 95% hit rate on an 8-hit weaponskill
Capped 95% accuracy on each hit. Duh? That's the point: It makes the need for higher and higher accuracy limit the weaponskill on very high level targets and allows Quietus to take over for more consistent damage.

For that matter though, capped accuracy comes out to landing all eight hits 66.3% of the time if you care to know.

Raising the fTP is a solution, but a boring one. Greatsword now has a 5-hit WS for application of Souleater. Give Scythe an 8-hit WS to truly be the balls-out weapon when using Souleater.

[Prothscar]

Capped 95% accuracy on each hit. Duh? That's the point: It makes the need for higher and higher accuracy limit the weaponskill on very high level targets and allows Quietus to take over for more consistent damage.

For that matter though, capped accuracy comes out to landing all eight hits 66.3% of the time if you care to know.

I already know, and that further compounds the issue that your solution is inadequate and a bloated way of taking care of the issue.

[kumo2121]

Watch This Vid Entropy aint that bad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDUZGQTWvzc&feature=channel_video_title

Hmmm that Entropy had a Triple Attack Proc in it, TP return was 22, instead of 20.

[Clou777]

Not sure how much that matters. Show me someone breaking 5k with Quietus in Abyssea... or even 4k... or even 3k more than twice in a row...

Scythe is getting beat in WS power by non-Empyrean staff. Something is wrong.

just matters because my main is summoner and we're going down in the ladder DD wise lately, would be nice to know how to up the dmg

[Clou777]

just been testing shattersoul also with all kinds of atma and i havent seen over 1500 dmg. how u got 5k i dont know, did you brew?

[Theytak]

just been testing shattersoul also with all kinds of atma and i havent seen over 1500 dmg. how u got 5k i dont know, did you brew?

It's got a 100% INT mod at 5/5, just whore out as much int as you can and use a moderate-high damage staff.

[Clou777]

It's got a 100% INT mod at 5/5, just whore out as much int as you can and use a moderate-high damage staff.

yea i stuck a load of INT atmas on at 5/5 and still 1000-1500 dmg

[Theytak]

yea i stuck a load of INT atmas on at 5/5 and still 1000-1500 dmg

What about your gear? and what weapon were you using? What was your total INT?

[Saiken253]

Why don't they just give drks the ability to use a staff? get Spirit taker way earlier... :|

Maybe its SE's way of making all scythe drk retire their scythes to use great sword & great swords only?

Yes, however years ago SE was worried about the fact that DRKs weren't using scythes at ALL. It has just about become that again with DRK. The reason for the worry? SE imagined that Scythes were DRK's signature weapon and people not using their signature weapon on DRK(in favor for GS or even GA) worried them.

Scythe Weaponskills, in general, need a boost.