Sword Weaponskills

[hideka]

please for the love of god, put Seraph blade, Red lotus blade, and Sanguine blade into RDM accessable Weaponskills... im sick of having to sub warrior if i want to use a decent elemental weaponskill.

[ManaKing]

Would be nice. I was hoping we could get some decent elemental WSs for the next update. No idea if we will get them. I'm just going to point out that we already get Eviseration and CDC, so unless they are going to make something super broken, they aren't going to beat those two for physical WSs. We might as well get some diversity.

[Kristal]

I always found it odd that RDM is capable of enchanting his own blade with elemental magic (enspells) but is unable to use elemental sword weaponskills... we can use elemental dagger weaponskills, yet RDM can't be found on the magian dagger trials (not even the elemental trials)...

Not having Vorpal Blade I understand, that's a WS suited for heavier sword-using melee classes while RDM favors the more nimble swords (and daggers). But Sanguine Blade?

[hideka]

my sentiments exactly. and for the record, evisceration SUCKS outside of abyssea when compared to dancing edge and what not.

i personaly dont think the new sword weaponskill is going to be a damaging weaponskill. anything stronger then CDC will break PLD & RDM sword users, i mean come on, we can already toss on a Kclub and CDC every 5 seconds.

the new sword weapon skill will probably be akin to what i suggested on my weaponskill suggestion thread. it will either drain MP, convert damage done into MP or enfeeble the target.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

my sentiments exactly. and for the record, evisceration SUCKS outside of abyssea when compared to dancing edge and what not.

i personaly dont think the new sword weaponskill is going to be a damaging weaponskill. anything stronger then CDC will break PLD & RDM sword users, i mean come on, we can already toss on a Kclub and CDC every 5 seconds.

the new sword weapon skill will probably be akin to what i suggested on my weaponskill suggestion thread. it will either drain MP, convert damage done into MP or enfeeble the target.

RDM won't get it, it looks like a 5-hit physical WS... Bleh!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH7PY6YjMSY&feature=player_embedded

[hideka]

rdm better get it. ill be fucking pissed if we get gypped again.

[Swords]

rdm better get it. ill be fucking pissed if we get gypped again.

Oh not only will we not get it, they'll nerf something else or take something else away in the process.

[ManaKing]

There will be hell to pay if that WS is PLD, BLU, WAR, DRK MAIN ONLY. What WAR or DRK uses a sword anyways? I mean really SE, the EX garbage was annoying at best back in the day.

Yeah Eviseration isn't that great outside of aby, but at least we can get on Mandau if we want to use daggers. The delay is low and the +Attack is great. If someone wants to scoff at Mercy Stroke, go ahead, but just realize that Mandau is the strongest DPS 1h in the game. Now if this new Dagger WS is also available to RDM since they clearly are doing WS by Weapon and not by job....

[Neisan_Quetz]

Rdm always gets Ex dagger weaponskills... that are elemental.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

We'll know tomorrow if RDM gets either, both or none.

I'm hoping for the sword as we've not received a new sword one since 75 not including Chant du Cygne.

[ManaKing]

I want both. Versatility and Flexibility is supposed to be the point of RDM. It's not like we can use both at the same time. There is no reason not to give us both except discrimination.

GIVE US BOTH

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I want both. Versatility and Flexibility is supposed to be the point of RDM. It's not like we can use both at the same time. There is no reason not to give us both except discrimination.

GIVE US BOTH

I want both, but at a choice I'd pick Sword over Dagger.

[Economizer]

Seraph blade, Red lotus blade, and Sanguine blade

I can even understand Red Mage not getting the first two, it never made any sense with Sanguine Blade. Red Mage gets Aeolian Edge SE!

Dark Knight might be a good sub for Red Mage, but it sucks that Red Mage has to sub it for this WS.

[tyrantsyn]

Weapon skill adjustments where announce back in july. And said to be coming soon. Now were looking at new WS and no adjustments yet. I wonder what happen to them?

[hideka]

We'll know tomorrow if RDM gets either, both or none.

I'm hoping for the sword as we've not received a new sword one since 75 not including Chant du Cygne.


Actualy we technicaly havent learned a single "Skill gotten" weaponskill since spirits within. everything we have after spirits comes from either weapon skill points, or weapon exclusive.

[Lilia]

Thank you , Thank you SE !!!!

Sword and Dagger V^.^

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Thank you , Thank you SE !!!!

Sword and Dagger V^.^

It's quite a good sword WS too, I'm surprised. SE actually went again their Norm.

[ManaKing]

You can have up to 3 of the new WSs fully merited so we should be on both.

[Kitkat]

Might just be ne, but so far Dagger WS seems to be better than the sword WS in my experience. Killing EP Aern in Sea I'm seeing 1600~2k with Ext, but only 1400~1600 so far with Requi.

In Abyssea (Vunkerl) using RR/GH/Apoc I was doing 2500~3800 with Ext, and didn't break 2k with Requi. Going to try slipping on Allur in place of GH and see if that helps it since it is a mnd mod.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Might just be ne, but so far Dagger WS seems to be better than the sword WS in my experience. Killing EP Aern in Sea I'm seeing 1600~2k with Ext, but only 1400~1600 so far with Requi.

In Abyssea (Vunkerl) using RR/GH/Apoc I was doing 2500~3800 with Ext, and didn't break 2k with Requi. Going to try slipping on Allur in place of GH and see if that helps it since it is a mnd mod.

As a random test I was getting 2100~ on easy prey outside Abyssea in just RDM empyrean. (not got any gear on the tester server for RDM)

[Kitkat]

Yeah, only time I got close to 2k was if I held tp to 200%+ with requi, but this is using gear that is setup for cdc/evis. Just seems odd cause for either WS I have roughly the same mnd or agi total outside of abyssea. Because of the mods being so heavy on these WS I wanted to try an atma setup more inline with the actual WS. Being that I had GH on it may have askewed the results for abyssea WS comparison a great deal.

Based on what the descriptions say and what test are showing sword should be stronger. I'm just chalking it up to small sample and biased sample at the moment.

[Seriha]

From what I've been piecing together, though Req info is still on the scarce side, is that dagger will probably be our better option for fodder ( ;_; ) without CDC while Req may situationally beat CDC on higher defense prey due to the ATK boost that apparently corresponds with the TP (and let's face it, ATK is one of RDM's shortcomings). Question from here is going more MND heavy is appropriate, STR/ATK, or some combination (Ogre Ledelsens +1 representing with their 5 MND and 12 ATK). Nonetheless, I've been fishing for something between CDC and Vorpal for a while now, and we seem to be getting things close to that.

Just torn on how I'd invest given merit point restrictions. I typically played a wider job spread including RDM, BLU, DRK, THF, WHM, BLM, and WAR. I feel like I can get away with not picking up Staff, Marksmanship, and Archery, but that's still 11 WS to split amongst since even lesser used jobs for me like NIN, MNK, SAM could still see improvements over old options. </3 SE for this.

[Greatguardian]

It's a pretty easy question. 100% WSC with Alpha=0.85 means 1 point of MND = 3.4 points of STR until fSTR cap, where STR becomes worthless. Attack is still meaningful, STR is really not unless you have it in significantly larger quantities than MND (unlikely).

This assumes 5/5 merits in the WS to get 100% WSC.

[Seriha]

Wish I could putz about to see what kind of gear combos would shine. MND isn't hard for us to come by, but I'm always wary about any kind of physical WS in RDM's hands, even if this one is a bit different than the norm.

[Kitkat]

Well, depending on what you are willing to give up, Morrigans has a mix of Str, mnd, att, and acc. Thing is, neither legs or feet has the +att. Feet has 3str and 10mnd, ogre is 5mnd 12att, and if acc is an issue Ragers has acc and att. Legs options fall to Tumblers for att (or dusk), morrigans for 3str 10mnd, and there was one other pair that were ok (think add-on augmented legs), but can't recall what off hand. I'd wager that Morrigans body compliments this well (have been using mine when using sword, but have yet to test using appropriate rings/earrings), Antares for greater accuracy if it is an issue, or possibly augmented body (though I think this is better suited for tp body slot atm).

Just have to see how each performs, can't say I've ever thought of putting that much work into rdm ws set, but since it is a blu ws also I have to keep it in mind x.x

[Neisan_Quetz]

Well considering the new Nyzul gear they should be overhauling salvage sets as well, would like to see how those come out.

[hideka]

Wish I could putz about to see what kind of gear combos would shine. MND isn't hard for us to come by, but I'm always wary about any kind of physical WS in RDM's hands, even if this one is a bit different than the norm.

erm... i can hit 1.4k Death blossoms in dynamis xarc w/o an almace...... rdm can do just fine with phys ws :P just got to gear right.

[Neisan_Quetz]

And soon you can watch a Whm piss all over that with a 1 damage wand (assuming SE leaves the new WS the way they are).

[Seriha]

erm... i can hit 1.4k Death blossoms in dynamis xarc w/o an almace...... rdm can do just fine with phys ws :P just got to gear right.

I've done 1800+ DBs, myself. There's no getting around RDMs starting at a relative deficiency compared to other jobs when not having an A or higher combat skill, no native traits like ATK or Crit boosts, and while Temper, Composure, and Gain-STR/DEX as needed are welcome, we've also got the monkey wrench of heavy subjob dependency and shortcomings of a cast load for potential swings over time. We're best suited for magical WS, especially with gear that's come with the cap increases, but A.Edge isn't really good for 1v1 and we obviously don't get Sanguine without a specific sub, and even then its damage isn't too high without atmas backing it.

Much as I hate to say it, while 1400 may've turned some heads at 75, with other jobs breaking 3k without too much trouble, it's not surprising we're never looked at for martial prowess. This is also why I look at whatever melee attention RDM gets with heavy scrutiny. Too little, and nothing changes about community perception and acceptance, to the point you get others cry out "Wasted dev time!" like with Temper. We've not really hit the other end of the spectrum with insane brokenness, but for how long some of us have been around and throwing RDM's flaws at SE and asking for attention, the time for baby steps has passed, be it mage or melee. I'll never say RDM is dead or in the grave as some might, but I can say it's not as fun as it could be, be it in concept or performance.

[Kitkat]

I often wondered myself why rdm didn't get Sanguine blade natively, but the others I already knew it was because rdm wasn't meant to have very efficient prowess. I did notice one thing about Sanguine blade however, that some seem to not notice at all, the WS has a high Enmity generation compared to most elemental WS. Even doing as little as 700 damage with the WS resulted in a easy shift of hate from someone who had established hate already into the fight.

Other than this I can't see why rdm wouldn't have it natively as it complements the build of the job already. ~shrugs~ Then again that is SE for you.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

And soon you can watch a Whm piss all over that with a 1 damage wand (assuming SE leaves the new WS the way they are).

WHM is SE's plaything, I'd expect nothing else.

[ManaKing]

I often wondered myself why rdm didn't get Sanguine blade natively, but the others I already knew it was because rdm wasn't meant to have very efficient prowess. I did notice one thing about Sanguine blade however, that some seem to not notice at all, the WS has a high Enmity generation compared to most elemental WS. Even doing as little as 700 damage with the WS resulted in a easy shift of hate from someone who had established hate already into the fight.

Other than this I can't see why rdm wouldn't have it natively as it complements the build of the job already. ~shrugs~ Then again that is SE for you.

I pull hate with Sanguine Blade all the time so long as I'm trying. If RDM were a tank, it would be perfectly suited towards it. Unfortunately RDM doesn't have a proficient roll, so asking for it to even be a tank is stretching it.

Fun for solo work though.

[Kitkat]

After further testing, this time in a mnd heavy setup (95+32str 80+64mnd 698 att with RCB, and 7%DA) I have to say I'm impressed with the sword WS. 1800@12%, 2100@13%, 2500@15% (@x% = tp returns at 100% ws use). Once again used on Aern for control purpose, same ones I fought first time around. Gain-Mnd was utilized.

I then compared this to CDC numbers in that usual WS setup (95+84dex 95+14str 717att 7%da) resulting in 2777@14%, 2084@13%, 2178@12%. (once again these are at ~100% tp ws use).

I plan to check out numbers at 200% and 300% later on, but this is a fairly nice WS when geared for it so far. I'll also be testing it on higher def mobs vs cdc later on too.

Note: This was not at the absolute high for mnd I could attain, I am trying to balanc mnd/acc/att in the set, but were I to go straight out mnd I could probably go as high as +82mnd, but at a loss of 32att and ~12accuracy. I will also test if stacking mod and ignoring att is worth while being it has a 100% mod at 5/5 and also seeing if adding in more att would be better also.


Edit: After going to crabs in VI [s], which are DC (lvl 93-94) and check Low eva and def (high def with gaurd up) I started my testing a new.

Buffs used:
Haste
Composure
Gain-Mnd (dex for CdC comparison)
Temper
Enthunder
Phalanx

Debuffs used:
Gravity II to gain full amount of TP return as possible in low acc situations. My accuracy did not appear to be capped for full mnd build.

Constant stat in all sets:
7%DA

With 666att, 80+82mnd and 95+15str I saw lows of 480@7% 750@12% with guard up. Without guard up I saw 940@7% 1048@11%, 1475@13% and 1560@15%. This was using RCB. The obvious problem I ran into the most with this was accuracy. Gearing MND straight out works great on fodder where accuracy, fstr, and pdif aren't an issue. I say this due to numbers I saw fighting Aern using this same setup. Peaks reached upwards of 2700@15% and averaged at 2300@13%

With 698att 80+64mnd, 95+32str Lows were 803@12% and 730@11% with guard up. Without The averages were similar to previous, only scaling slightly higher 984@7%, 1130@11%, 1493@13%, and 1576@15%. Seems possibly my fstr was in question from prior numbers and the addition of att helped out nicely also.

Finally, with 725att, 80+46mnd, and 95+26str lows came out to 852@12% with guard up. Without averages were 1004@7%, 1190@11%, 1530@13% and 1668@15%.

CDC comparison (same stats as above CDC) low with guard up 1000@11%. Without guard up 1128@6%, 1134@10% 1934@14%. Sow while it doesn't seem to beat CDC outright it is still a good WS none the less from what I am seeing. These are all relatively small test samples and should be taken with a grain of salt. Def a cut above DB, but not quite a CDC from what I am seeing. I don't have enough of the gorget/belts to test this part so someone else would have to do that sadly.

[Luvbunny]

Weapon skill adjustments where announce back in july. And said to be coming soon. Now were looking at new WS and no adjustments yet. I wonder what happen to them?

They were too busy chanting and praising on how great Tanaturd vision is for FFXI and brainstorming many devious ideas on how to keep players grind on more content with minimal drops, nerfing jobs right and left, while making sure that FFXI go into meltdown mode so that people would want to migrate to FF14...

[ManaKing]

They were too busy chanting and praising on how great Tanaturd vision is for FFXI and brainstorming many devious ideas on how to keep players grind on more content with minimal drops, nerfing jobs right and left, while making sure that FFXI go into meltdown mode so that people would want to migrate to FF14...

No one plays FFXIV. The game is bad. Anyone that played FFXI and then moved to FFXIV went back to FFXI or stopped playing FF online. Unless FFXIV looks pretty much exactly like FFXI at some point, no one is going to want to play it.

Yes I'm using absolutes. But seriously, the game is horrible.