[dev1042] Regen V

[Jile]

SE, You're kidding right? SCH gets Regen V and WHM doesn't?

I'm sure this will be fixed and giving lvl95 WHM Regen V before this goes live but
how could you not see career WHM's not getting upset by this? lol

[Glacont]

This maybe thier way as a trade off for not awarding Scholars Cure V.

[Economizer]

Mellow. Regen sucks for White Mages - our merit and gear options don't boost it enough, and White Mages don't get anything like Composure or Light Arts boosts to make the spell not gimp.

Regen isn't MP efficient for White Mages, and until they decided to boost it for Scholars, the cast time was terrible. In fact, I'm more upset that SE didn't fix the cast time on Regen spells back when Red Mage was roflstomping White Mage as a healer because of White Mage's massive MP issues back when Regen was MP efficient, years ago.

With the changes, Scholars are also getting all Regen spells before White Mage as well, the cast times are going to be reasonable, and Scholars will have it boosted under Light Arts. While Regen V would be nice just because it is always cool to have a higher tier, it won't kill us not to have it.

If you must, campaign for it, but I'm more hopeful that the pending cure formula changes will fix all cures more or less.

[hideka]

This maybe thier way as a trade off for not awarding Scholars Cure V.

this is exactly what they had in mind. they want SCH to be a purely supporting mage.

[SpankWustler]

White Mage is currently awesome at casting Cure spells. White Mage can cap or nearly Cure casting time reduction using very obtainable equipment, caps Cure Potency very easily, can add a brief Stoneskin with it's Cure spells, and gets amazing MP efficiency from cures using Orison Pantaloons +2. Depending on the change to Cure formulas that is coming eventually, White Mage may be even more awesome at Cure spells in the future.

All of this makes the Regen line very situational for a fully equipped White Mage. They'll become less situational with the casting time adjustments coming, but still not comparable to their usefulness at 75.

The plan of the Development Bros is to make Scholar awesome at casting Regen spells. With main-job tools like Perpetuance and Ascension and extremely less impressive Cures, Scholar is in a much better position to take advantage of Regen spells. Basically, they're trying to make something that's become a very minor part of White Mage into a major part of Scholar.

You'd have some grounds to complain if the Regen spells were still used by White Mage for superior MP efficiency, as they were at 75 in merit parties and dynamis and such, but that's no longer the case.

[Alhanelem]

SCH learns the regen spells earlier than WHM already. It makes perfect sense for them to get a higher tier one, especially considering that they are the masters of Damage Over Time in black magic, they may as well be the masters of Heal Over Time in white magic.

[Neisan_Quetz]

More like SE retcon'd Sch into learning regens sooner but yeah. (Regen 3 is still 66WHM/83 Sch on main server last I checked)

[Insaniac]

how could you not see career WHM's not getting upset by this? lol WHM is better at every single other facet of curing and will still be the only viable option for main healing almost everything. There's nothing to be mad about.

[Mirage]

I play WHM quite a bit and I have no problems with SCH getting stronger regen spells than we do.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

More like SE retcon'd Sch into learning regens sooner but yeah. (Regen 3 is still 66WHM/83 Sch on main server last I checked)

On Test Server with the new spell format it's:


Regen - Gradually restores target's HP.
MP Cost: 15 Casting Time: 1.5 Recast Delay: 12.0
Target: Party Member/Self / Type: White / Element: Light / Skill: Enhancing Magic
Jobs: WHM21 RDM21 SCH18

Regen II - Gradually restores target's HP.
MP Cost: 36 Casting Time: 1.75 Recast Delay: 16.0
Target: Party Member/Self / Type: White / Element: Light / Skill: Enhancing Magic
Jobs: WHM44 RDM76 SCH37

Regen III - Gradually restores target's HP.
MP Cost: 64 Casting Time: 2.0 Recast Delay: 20.0
Target: Party Member/Self / Type: White / Element: Light / Skill: Enhancing Magic
Jobs: WHM66 SCH59

Regen IV - Gradually restores target's HP.
MP Cost: 82 Casting Time: 2.25 Recast Delay: 24.0
Target: Party Member/Self / Type: White / Element: Light / Skill: Enhancing Magic
Jobs: WHM86 SCH79

Regen V - Gradually restores target's HP.
MP Cost: 100 Casting Time: 2.5 Recast Delay: 28.0
Target: Party Member/Self / Type: White / Element: Light / Skill: Enhancing Magic
Jobs: SCH99

Which is much more in line with SCH's original format of getting them first, and lets not use the argument WHM was out first...

[saevel]

Really need to add RDM to Regen III / IV. SCH can keep Regen V and the super effects of LA. And WHM has Cure V and Solstice.

[Jerbob]

This is ridiculous. White Mage has had regen mastery since day one and now SCH not only has much more powerful regen effects but a whole extra tier over White Mage? It's beyond rational comprehension, it really is.

I can appreciate that SCH has some issues with healing, I really can. We're in a transition period and SE clearly hasn't thought things through - some jobs are suffering, whatever your perspective on who needs what and so on. However, that does not magically (excuse the pun) give SCH the right to outright steal mastery of an entire line of spells from White Mage. I'm stuggling not to use the word "ridiculous" again, but there's really no other way of describing it.

SCH has always had trouble being unique because, let's face it, SCH is not unique. It's a job being pressed into a hole that's far too small for it. This is YET ANOTHER instance of SCH outright pilfering things from other jobs in a desperate attempt to make itself relevant, and I'm certain it won't be the last. Regen needs fixing across the board - not just new tiers but a complete overhaul - and giving SCH yet another so-called "speciality" (frankly what doesn't it claim as a speciality?) in Regen is not helping anyone. It's restricting the development of other jobs, it's demonstrating a terrible lack of creativity, and it's plain wrong.

Ridiculous, absurd, nonsensical, outright offensive - take your pick of adjectives while I quietly fume in the corner for what seems the thousandth time due to SCH.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

So much ; ; over something clearly SE had in mind when they introduced SCH... Hello Regen and Regen II.

WHM is so powerful, WAH!!! We want more power, but don't even think about giving our spells like Cure V away. Seriously, I'd rather a straight Cure V over Regen.. I propose a trade off. You can have crappy Regen V we'll have Cure V.

What's that? No chance! Oh, okay. We'll just have no means of curing other than the blatantly weak Cure IV. Seriously, priorities straight please!

[OuShiroHeart]

This is ridiculous. White Mage has had regen mastery since day one and now SCH not only has much more powerful regen effects but a whole extra tier over White Mage? It's beyond rational comprehension, it really is.

Actually, Regen was originally a RDM only spell.
February 5, 2003 Update (http://www.playonline.com/comnews/200302052327.html)　If you cannot read Japanese, first line is saying new magic for RDM added. Regen Lv21 and Refresh Lv41
In the level 70 cap update, WHM was given Regen, Regen II, and Regen III
July 17, 2003 Update (http://www.playonline.com/comnews/200307172028.html)

[Jerbob]

I stand corrected on the "from day one" comment but really, I think it's clear exactly what I was trying to say there. Regen has been White Mage's speciality since that level 70 cap update, reinforced with merit and gear choices along the way and by the lack of powerful regen magic for other jobs. It's very well established now.

This isn't a matter of White Mage becoming more powerful, it's about SCH's sticky fingers and the fact that White Mage should continue to be the best at one of its speciality lines of spells. If SCH was suddenly given all the tier II enfeebles and a new set of tier III ones, a trait to vastly increase sticking rate, and then have the audacity to claim that it was the new best enfeebler - there'd be outrage. This is no different.

Regardless of how people feel about White Mage, this is a shining example of a job not getting a spell or capability because SCH has got it first for whatever reason, and that is wrong. There's also the much bigger picture - Regen has been enhanced for SCH, and now it won't be properly fixed for White Mage and Red Mage because, hilariously and ironically, that would be copying SCH. Regen is nearly useless for those two jobs (who you've demonstrated have had them for nearly a decade) for various reasons, but now SCH has abruptly claimed mastery over them - and there was so much potential. People really cannot suggest that this makes sense.

I know that I'm whining and I appreciate that there is a small irony in that I'm arguing for White Mage to have new spells when it is already a strong job, but this is about the principle of the thing, and the aftermath for regen as a whole, rather than just about White Mage. I strongly feel that this goes deeper than that.

[SpankWustler]

The huge casting time reduction on Regen spells will apply to all jobs. It's not limited to Light Arts or anything, it's a change in the spells themselves. Casting time has been a big pitfall for Regen spells once Cures overtook them for MP efficiency (on White Mage), so a casting time adjustment is very welcome.

Also, White Mage's mastery of the Regen line falls pretty flat compared to White Mage's super-duper-double mastery of the far less niche Cure line. It is entirely possible the Development Bros thought things over and decided the best way to make Regen spells more useful would be to make a job with less awesome cures cast them.

I wouldn't mind having Regen V on White Mage, because bigger numbers are always better, but I'm not going to pretend it's presence or absence has much effect on anything. I don't think "Somebody took my thingy." really holds that much gravitas, so I see no reason not make some other job Grand Regen Master Flash or whatever.

[Fredjan]

This thread seriously has me laughing.

White Mage does NOT need Regen V. How many White Mages even cast Regen these days...? I do when the situation calls for it, but otherwise, guess what's preferred? Our sheer curing strength that no other job compares with, not our ability to use Regen. Scholar is an "over time" job, they SHOULD have mastery of the Regen spell-line, and I had a hunch they would long ago when they learned Regen I + II earlier than White Mage (just a hunch). Considering Regen III is being lowered from SCH83 to SCH59, they're making it clear.

As a career White Mage who has been playing for years, I was one of the people who ALSO suggested Regen V (See my SCH Feedback thread) to be given to Scholar, and this is coming from a career White Mage. It doesn't bother me in the SLIGHTEST that WHM's best Regen is Regen IV. What's unacceptable is RDM only having Regen II, they should have at least tier III at this point, IV would be nifty, but knowing SE, that won't happen, so I'd expect tier III just to be realistic.

White Mage MAY have been a "regen master" at 75, but here's why: They needed it, Red Mage didn't. Nobody invited them over Red Mages due to sheer MP "batteries" that RDM possessed and it was a way to conserve MP when you could justify an over-time cure.

[Jerbob]

The casting time reduction isn't really the point (though it is about time and most welcome). SCH having access to higher tier regen magic and the bonus effects of Light Arts is the primary thing I'm talking about.

SCH doesn't need Regen V, either. To do what people seem to want it to do - main heal in the place of a White Mage - Cure V would be necessary, or something along those lines as has been discussed at length elsewhere. The point is not whether any job needs Regen V - and to be honest, most spells that jobs get aren't necessary but just nice. Some are not so nice... cough Cura III cough...

I can appreciate that SCH can appear as an "over time" job, as much as I may disagree that such a definition has to encompass Regen considering the fact that they already have two unique over time effects, but that doesn't give it the right to immediately lay claim to spells that other jobs are, and should continue to be, the best at. The very fact that SCH has claimed Regen for its own means that we're never going to see Regen fixed for other jobs. Yes, at the moment Regen is pretty dire to say the least for both RDM and WHM. It doesn't have to be - a few tweaks and Regen can be an excellent pseudo-mitigation tool and regain its status as a highly efficient, low enmity effect. But now that won't happen.

I am also a career White Mage (regardless of what my profile thing may say - I looked at it once, it refused to change my displayed job and so I left it at that). I can also see the potential value of Regen with a few modifications. The fact that Regen is no use to us now is an indication that it needs to be fixed across the board, not confined to a single job. SE seems to think SCH needs help - fair enough. That help does not have to be a line of spells that has, for a very long time, belonged to one job. SCH has already taken enough.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

The casting time reduction isn't really the point (though it is about time and most welcome). SCH having access to higher tier regen magic and the bonus effects of Light Arts is the primary thing I'm talking about.

SCH doesn't need Regen V, either. To do what people seem to want it to do - main heal in the place of a White Mage - Cure V would be necessary, or something along those lines as has been discussed at length elsewhere. The point is not whether any job needs Regen V - and to be honest, most spells that jobs get aren't necessary but just nice. Some are not so nice... cough Cura III cough...

I can appreciate that SCH can appear as an "over time" job, as much as I may disagree that such a definition has to encompass Regen considering the fact that they already have two unique over time effects, but that doesn't give it the right to immediately lay claim to spells that other jobs are, and should continue to be, the best at. The very fact that SCH has claimed Regen for its own means that we're never going to see Regen fixed for other jobs. Yes, at the moment Regen is pretty dire to say the least for both RDM and WHM. It doesn't have to be - a few tweaks and Regen can be an excellent pseudo-mitigation tool and regain its status as a highly efficient, low enmity effect. But now that won't happen.

I am also a career White Mage (regardless of what my profile thing may say - I looked at it once, it refused to change my displayed job and so I left it at that). I can also see the potential value of Regen with a few modifications. The fact that Regen is no use to us now is an indication that it needs to be fixed across the board, not confined to a single job. SE seems to think SCH needs help - fair enough. That help does not have to be a line of spells that has, for a very long time, belonged to one job. SCH has already taken enough.

You keep saying this... The only thing WHM has is Regen Merits and a few pieces of equipment (Which SCH also has) over any other job. The merits most likely wont stay come the fixes they're doing to it and even if they do it doesn't make WHM the specialist of Regen. They proved with the Regen and Regen II levels this was SCH's expertise. RDM is supposed to be the expert of enfeebling but it doesn't stop other jobs BLM and WHM gaining all their enfeebles "Learning spells != Specialist."

You're just kicking and screaming for the fun of it.

[Jerbob]

I've not been rude to you and I'd appreciate it if you would do the same, thank you.

I have no problem with SCH having some proficiency in Regen, just as I have no problem with Red Mage having the same - and I'd certainly support them recieving Regen III, and possibly Regen IV. As you say, learning spells does not equate to being a specialist. Red Mage is a particularly unfortunate example at the moment, with the problems with enfeebling magic and Addle (which should not have been given to White Mage) but I can appreciate it as an example nonetheless, as Red Mage is significantly better at it as it stands. However, White Mage's "pre-SCH" state of learning an entire line of spells (and exclusively the top two tiers), having exclusive gear and merits to support those spells and having the ability (and need) to make good use of them, as White Mage has had in the past, not to mention this being the case for a very long time, was (and is) as good a claim to specialisation as any other in the game.

SCH learns Regen and Regen II at a slightly earlier level than White Mage, this is true, but as I understand it the actual potency is reduced until it reaches a cap at the level that White Mage learns it, which is certainly something to consider if this is the only claim to Regen that SCH has. Even without that point, pushing SCH's proposed speciality in Regen (again, amongst its not insignificant array of proposed specialisations) back to its inception does not change the point - that SCH has taken one of White Mage's specialities (as I have demonstrated) as its own instead of having any unique ones. If we do intend to consider the entire existence of SCH, it's clear, as you say, that it's a progressive thing. If I must say that this behaviour is a problem from the very beginning then I will do, and stick by it.

It's not just White Mage that has changed to make Regen less useful - indeed I'd argue that it's mostly support jobs and the nature of the game that has done that. Regen needs a significant boost to make it worth casting for any job. Whilst SCH is mopping up all the enhancements, this won't happen. White Mages not using Regen is not a reason for it to lose it as a speciality, it's a reason to fix it for everyone.

All I can see in SCH's favour for exclusive access to more potent and higher tiered Regen over other mages in general and White Mage specifically, respectively, is a need for more potency in restorative magic. There are lots of ways of dealing with that - this forum has many creative ideas. Stealing Regen specialisation from White Mage is just a lazy way of doing it.

Unfortunately it is midnight here so I must sign off. Good night!

[SpankWustler]

White Mage's role is that of a healer. I play White Mage because it's a mage that prevents people from becoming dead through various means, not to cast any specific spell or spells.

White Mage had lots of stuff for Regen spells at the level 75 cap because MP efficiency or longevity was vital to the healer role at level 75. Since then, a lot of things have changed. Cures are now very MP efficient for White Mage, and even if Regen spells were made more MP efficient than Cure spells again, MP efficiency is not as vital.

I think spells and abilities are seen too much as possessions and not enough as tools to fulfill a purpose or perform within a role.

[Glacont]

White Mages not using Regen is not a reason for it to lose it as a speciality, it's a reason to fix it for everyone.


Going by that line of logic, does that mean if I had a toy and after so many years I no longer play with it, then my little brother comes long and he's having a good time with my old toy; Enjoying it more than I am. As a result, I have the right to be angry about it? [If this is Truth, and how, through your eyes, things should be, how does that make Me sound?]

Keep in mind, I am not attacking You; I really am not, but, your reasoning appears flawed. Alot of jobs are getting shafted one way or another, but there comes a point where you have to accept the situation. Scholars will not take the throne from White Mages, however, SE is Bestowing the title of Back-up Healer to the Scholar. Regen V is a trade off for not giving them Cure V. This is how things are. No matter how many post you make, where you can provide strong view points, this will not change the matter; If anything you're only fustrating yourself to no end.

[Teraniku]

As a sort of career WHM in this game, Regen IV is overly situational and I only use it if the NIN tank is holding his own but has a little bit of damage. Throwing a haste, so he can get shadows up faster and then throwing a regen IV on him / her gives me time to not worry about them for a bit so I can concentrate on the DRG, DRK, or WAR.
(Notice I didn't include SAM, because of their Damage Mitigation abilities, put them at a lower priority tier, than the 3 DD's I listed)

[Alhanelem]

Stealing Regen specialisation from White Mage is just a lazy way of doing it.Nothing is being "stolen." White mage loses nothing from SCH suddenly getting a better regen spell, because most white mages don't even use the ones that exist as it is. Regen fits well with SCH's theme of efficiency over time. SCH has the most powerful damage-over-time magic on dark arts, so why not give it the most powerful healing-over-time magic on light arts??

It's absurd to call regen a "specialty" for white mage. That mostly ended when SCH came out and was given early access to those spells (and the "potency", or more accurately duration difference, is trivial and only lasts a few levels. What did white mage get to improve regen? 1 minor merit trait that not many people got, and one or two pieces of gear.

Really, almost no white mage other than one or two in this thread gives a rat's behind about this change. SCH and really also RDM both need a boost to support capability, and if we got Cure V, every white mage out there would be rioting and protesting over it. Regen is the perfect way to give SCH a little healing boost without infringing on WHM's status as the most powerful healer. Really, it doesn't- If someone gets hit for 1500 damage, a Regen V isn't going to take them out of the danger zone quickly enough. Regen is no substitute for a strong cure when heavy spike damage gets doled out. It's only offective against sustained damage over a period of time.

[Concerned4FFxi]

I play WHM quite a bit and I have no problems with SCH getting stronger regen spells than we do.

i approve this

[Jile]

Thanks for the response on my post.

Honestly I agree Regen is very situational but that said I use Regen quite a bit every time
I load WHM, especially for my puller's in abyssea parties just to add an extra bit of aid
while they grab mobs or when someone is going to pop a NM and pull it back to a group.

It's not as critical to have now vs level 75, no argument here - but it does get used
and another tier of Regen would have been nice and used on my WHM if it were being
given to us.

Cleric's Briault + Orison Mitts +2 + max merits = 39HP/tick for a maximum of 975 HP
over 75 seconds for a cost of 82mp. Situational as it may be, it still has value.

Now compare that to Regen5 from a SCH which gives 64hp/tick and costs 100mp.
So far I have not seen the max duration posted anywhere so I don't know the total
of how much it can heal but a 40% increase on hp per tick is substantial and if the
duration is the same 75 seconds, that would be 1,600hp recovered.

So yeah, perhaps I'm looking back at the value from level 75 for Regen4, but Regen5
would be used by most(all?) WHM's if it were as MP efficient as it appears at first glance.

(edited to 1600hp recovered.... I really should not reply when I need sleep lol!)

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Thanks for the response on my post.

Honestly I agree Regen is very situational but that said I use Regen quite a bit every time
I load WHM, especially for my puller's in abyssea parties just to add an extra bit of aid
while they grab mobs or when someone is going to pop a NM and pull it back to a group.

It's not as critical to have now vs level 75, no argument here - but it does get used
and another tier of Regen would have been nice and used on my WHM if it were being
given to us.

Cleric's Briault + Orison Mitts +2 + max merits = 39HP/tick for a maximum of 975 HP
over 75 seconds for a cost of 82mp. Situational as it may be, it still has value.

Now compare that to Regen5 from a SCH which gives 64hp/tick and costs 100mp.
So far I have not seen the max duration posted anywhere so I don't know the total
of how much it can heal but a 40% increase on hp per tick is substantial and if the
duration is the same 75 seconds, that would be 4,800hp recovered.

So yeah, perhaps I'm looking back at the value from level 75 for Regen4, but Regen5
would be used by most(all?) WHM's if it were as MP efficient as it appears at first glance.

If you're including equipment then for SCH it's 69 HP per tic as the +2 hat gives +5 regen, 81 under SCH's 2-hour.

[Dantedmc]

With 64, 69, or 81 hp/tick I don't see where he is getting 4,800 HP from regen V over 75 seconds. 75 seconds should be about 25 tics so...

39 x 25 = 975 (Whm)
64 x 25 = 1600 , 1280 / min or 20 tics
69 x 25 = 1,725, 1380 / min
81 x 25 = 2,025, 1,620 / min

69 hp / tic really isn't that great imo. It should have atleast been 100hp/tic and even then I don't think it would have been enough. I'm not really a fan of regen spells at this point in the game with how much damage monsters deal.

[Jile]

Good lord I am too tired to be typing replies LOL! Yes you are very correct, its 25 ticks, I did rage-math and just 64x75.... edited my post but good lord I need to be more awake from now on to reply.... going to bed LOL

[Daniel_Hatcher]

With 64, 69, or 81 hp/tick I don't see where he is getting 4,800 HP from regen V over 75 seconds. 75 seconds should be about 25 tics so...

39 x 25 = 975 (Whm)
64 x 25 = 1600 , 1280 / min or 20 tics
69 x 25 = 1,725, 1380 / min
81 x 25 = 2,025, 1,620 / min

69 hp / tic really isn't that great imo. It should have atleast been 100hp/tic and even then I don't think it would have been enough. I'm not really a fan of regen spells at this point in the game with how much damage monsters deal.

I don't disagree, with current endgame being most hits around ~300 and TP moves (which are not really TP based) for MUCH more, 100 HP is the bare minimum needed to make the line actually useful. I was just being pedantic on it should include equipment for both to be 100% clear.

The only way I see HoT working is via the Helix line, 300 HP per helix tic.

[SpankWustler]

Now compare that to Regen5 from a SCH which gives 64hp/tick and costs 100mp.
So far I have not seen the max duration posted anywhere so I don't know the total
of how much it can heal but a 40% increase on hp per tick is substantial and if the
duration is the same 75 seconds, that would be 4,800hp recovered.

I assume 64 is including the bonus Scholar gets from Light Arts, so Regen V would most likely restore < 48 HP a tick on White Mage before figuring in equipment and such. Still a step up over Regen IV, but not that drastic.

If the Stoneskin effect from Solace is added in and Regen V is assumed to remain at 64 MP a tick, Regen V would only be a smidgen over twice as MP efficient as a good Cure V. Twice as efficient is significant, but I'm guessing it's not the enormous difference one would expect just looking at "4,800 HP recovered".

Edit: I knew that number seemed too big. So, yeah, Cure V would actually be far more MP efficient than Regen V and I believe several other cures would beat it as well.

[Francisco]

I don't see the big deal.

People talk about how broken WAR and MNK are, how they obsolete PLD tanks, etc...

Fact is, these jobs are only allowed to do what they do because of how amazing WHM has become.

[Lawliett]

SE you're kidding me right? BLM gets Meteor and not WHM?!

I'm sure this will be fixed in a future update or I will ragequit the game. kthnx.

[Jile]

SE you're kidding me right? BLM gets Meteor and not WHM?!

I'm sure this will be fixed in a future update or I will ragequit the game. kthnx.

You seriously made that your first post?

If you don't understand why someone would have concern about a spell that has been a
long time used spell being omitted then ask questions rather than troll, please.

[Camate]

In regards to Regen spells, we don’t have any plans to limit them to scholars only, but we are looking to largely reduce their casting time for scholars. As long as no critical bugs crop up, we’re hoping to implement everything in the next Test Server update so you can test it out (recast timers won’t change).

Here is a compiled list of the content:


■Testable content in the next Test Server update

•Reduction of Regen magic casting time
•Regen IV will be learnable by scholar at level 79 and the learnable level for Regen III will be lowered from 83 to 59
•Addition of Regen V (SCH level 99) as a scholar-specific spell
•As a scholar-specific effect, a Regen potency/effect duration bonus will be added to Light Arts


■Content being looked into for future implementation

•Make the effects of cure skill and MND larger, increasing the amount of cure potency
•As a scholar-specific effect, the effects of Regen will be extended to players outside of the party

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Erm... we know this already?!

[Fredjan]

In regards to Regen spells, we don’t have any plans to limit them to scholars only, but we are looking to largely reduce their casting time for scholars. As long as no critical bugs crop up, we’re hoping to implement everything in the next Test Server update so you can test it out (recast timers won’t change).

Here is a compiled list of the content:


■Testable content in the next Test Server update

•Reduction of Regen magic casting time
•Regen IV will be learnable by scholar at level 79 and the learnable level for Regen III will be lowered from 83 to 59
•Addition of Regen V (SCH level 99) as a scholar-specific spell
•As a scholar-specific effect, a Regen potency/effect duration bonus will be added to Light Arts


■Content being looked into for future implementation

•Make the effects of cure skill and MND larger, increasing the amount of cure potency
•As a scholar-specific effect, the effects of Regen will be extended to players outside of the party

I can picture White Mages complaining already, especially on the last part.

Yet I'm not one of the White Mages complaining.

I honestly feel the regen cast time reduction should apply as a generic change and not limited to Scholar itself, but that's my only thought on that matter. Rest I quite approve of.

[Economizer]

■Content being looked into for future implementation

•Make the effects of cure skill and MND larger, increasing the amount of cure potency


If anyone wants to talk about formulas and effects of such a change, there is a thread for this that recently started. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/17433-Cure-Formula-Changes?p=231878&viewfull=1#post231878) /plug

Anyways, we know most of this. As a bit of a note, the Regen outside of party thing sounds new, and the cure potency thing is just more detailed. On the test server Regen casts faster for everyone (but I kinda feel this is how it should be, only bitter they didn't do this years ago when WHM was the one getting stomped) although perhaps Light Arts or some SCH thing will make it even faster?

[Ashay]

In regards to Regen spells, we don’t have any plans to limit them to scholars only, but we are looking to largely reduce their casting time for scholars. As long as no critical bugs crop up, we’re hoping to implement everything in the next Test Server update so you can test it out (recast timers won’t change).

Here is a compiled list of the content:
■Testable content in the next Test Server update
•Reduction of Regen magic casting time
•Regen IV will be learnable by scholar at level 79 and the learnable level for Regen III will be lowered from 83 to 59
•Addition of Regen V (SCH level 99) as a scholar-specific spell
•As a scholar-specific effect, a Regen potency/effect duration bonus will be added to Light Arts
■Content being looked into for future implementation
•Make the effects of cure skill and MND larger, increasing the amount of cure potency
•As a scholar-specific effect, the effects of Regen will be extended to players outside of the party

Okay, so when is SCH getting that scholar-specific Refresh III? I can handle SCH learning Regen III and IV earlier than WHM, but I don't see why WHM can't learn Regen V as well by Lv.99. And why is the bonus effect with Light Arts scholar-specific? Most WHMs sub SCH, and having that enhancement would make Regen more useful all around. I sincerely hope the Healing Magic Skill and MND adjustments aren't SCH specific.

[Economizer]

Say what you will about the Regen changes, as long as everyone else gets the faster cast times that are current on the server, it shouldn't be too bad (although if there is anything to absolutely fume about it is that they never gave a single thought towards reducing the cast time on regen spells back during the RDM roflstomp), since you'll be able to cast them without someone dying because you weren't able to cure for two years while it casted.


I sincerely hope the Healing Magic Skill and MND adjustments aren't SCH specific.

It isn't. On the off chance it is, Phanauet Channel will be so full of bloody mortarboards that you can walk on it.

[Ashay]

It isn't. On the off chance it is, Phanauet Channel will be so full of bloody mortarboards that you can walk on it.

Well, that's somewhat of a relief. Every job with healing magic should receive the adjustments. I noticed that Regen IV is usable with Accession for WHM on the test server, so that's one nice bonus.

[Helel]

Like they said earlier, they're adjusting cure formulas to compensate for their incomprehensible stance on whmonly cure V. I added the incomprehensible part obviously, but honestly, SCH-specific regen makes them look even more ridiculous in limiting cure V to whm only.

1. Why change cure formulas at all when you can simply give other jobs cure V. This is just dumb.
2. Why does SCH only get 1 tier of regen specific to SCH. WHM (for whatever retarded reason) gets two tiers of cures that are specific to WHM. There's plenty of other examples: every job/rdm now has access to refresh, but no worries, RDM gets one tier higher. It's almost always one tier, and yet WHM still gets two tiers all to itself. Why...?

Someone on the dev team has a serious fetish for WHM or something, because logically these jobs/spells do not make sense at the moment.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Okay, so when is SCH getting that scholar-specific Refresh III? I can handle SCH learning Regen III and IV earlier than WHM, but I don't see why WHM can't learn Regen V as well by Lv.99. And why is the bonus effect with Light Arts scholar-specific? Most WHMs sub SCH, and having that enhancement would make Regen more useful all around. I sincerely hope the Healing Magic Skill and MND adjustments aren't SCH specific.

You're kidding right? SCH learns Regen's earlier, and learns Regen V at 99, therefore WHM can't learn it. Light Arts bonus is obvious, WHM already gains all SCH's bonus's under Light Arts, every job should have a buff for their only abilities. WHM has had it to good for too long now.

[Eric]

ITT: WHMs bawwwing about stuff that doesn't matter at all because they will still get picked over SCH and RDM for healing every single time.

[Annalise]

I can picture White Mages complaining already, especially on the last part.

Yet I'm not one of the White Mages complaining.

I honestly feel the regen cast time reduction should apply as a generic change and not limited to Scholar itself, but that's my only thought on that matter. Rest I quite approve of.

I don't even use regen anymore on white mage. So lackluster these days

[Fredjan]

I don't even use regen anymore on white mage. So lackluster these days

I barely ever use it, cures are so MP efficient anymore especially with /SCH that it doesn't matter.


ITT: WHMs bawwwing about stuff that doesn't matter at all because they will still get picked over SCH and RDM for healing every single time.

That sums it up well. I could just see the outrage that'd occur if this were Cure V instead, and even if those jobs did get that, anyone doing a serious (key word: serious) event SHOULD want a White Mage healing them anyway, regardless.

WHM has it so easy now that people complain for the sake of complaining at times, I'd have to say.

Does SCH really -need- Regen V? No. Considering the levels they changed III and IV too, I figured it'd be obvious they'd get it, showing the "mastery" of the spell line, and as a SCH myself, I definitely welcome the addition.
Is it a nice addition to the job's "niche"? Yes along with the adjustments in general that they're doing to the Regen spell line on that job.
Will it make people want SCHs more? I doubt it. SCH can out-nuke Black Mage with the same spell and people STILL want Black Mages overall.
What would be an extremely awesome use of the spell? Combining it with Embrava, you're looking at over 150 HP a tick. (Regen IV + Embrava for me was 134~).
Does White Mage need it? No. It'd just be a "cute" addition like Cura III, a spell that won't even be used with much frequency.
Should RDM be stuck with Regen II at this point? No. I'd complain more about that than WHM not getting Regen V.

[Raksha]

As a lvl 95SCH and a lvl 49WHM, I agree that the regen changes should apply to all jobs, and the light arts stuff should apply to anyone that uses light arts.


If you're not going to make it consistent, then don't do it all I say.

[Ophannus]

Regen is kinda pointless when the mob is hitting you for 300+ per hit. The damage dealt invalidates the 1-2 ticks of regen HP, you're better off waiting till the player is below 75% HP and throw out a Cure 5 than to have them ride Regens. Regens heal massive amounts of HP over time but since HP can drop down to 20-30% in a single TP move and a single Cure 6 brings you back to 100%, what good is Regen?

[Ophannus]

Regen is awesome when the damage sustained is close in value to the regen's HP/tick, but when it far exceeds it, it's hardly noticeable. It doesn't really sustain a tank, it only delays the time before the WHM will need to Cure V or Cure VI them. Regens+Cure IV will never be enough to sustain anything endgame.

[Economizer]

If you're not going to make it consistent, then don't do it all I say.

Based on earlier news, I was under the impression that Light Arts would give a light effect of the buffs Scholar gets since it is something like half-potency or so, and Scholars get the full effect. That said, while it would be neat if it worked this way, meh. The only thing I think we're getting for sure is faster Regen spells for all jobs who cast it, but even if that doesn't happen for all jobs, which would be wrong, I don't think it is a reason to stop the Regen changes at this point. Still, I guess that's the reason it is on the test server.

[Kaizersan]

Well from my testing light arts Regen V with Embrava on heals over 100+ a tick which really helps out esp when you use Perpetuance to extend it's duration.

[Cljader1]

Okay, so when is SCH getting that scholar-specific Refresh III? I can handle SCH learning Regen III and IV earlier than WHM, but I don't see why WHM can't learn Regen V as well by Lv.99. And why is the bonus effect with Light Arts scholar-specific? Most WHMs sub SCH, and having that enhancement would make Regen more useful all around. I sincerely hope the Healing Magic Skill and MND adjustments aren't SCH specific.

LoL its funny to see all the whms crying about a new Regen spell for sch, as a drk we had a lot of our spells ripped from us and whms came in our forums and told us to stop whining, whm kept the precious cure V and now they are still bitching about sch getting regen 5. Rdm had regen several months before whm, whm ripped regen from rdm, and now sch is the master of regen. The whining whms get over yourself, you were never entitled to regen V SE kept cure V and VI whm only and still you whine there's tons of whm only cures get off sch back they need and should have regen V and maybe even regen 6.

[Theytak]

LoL its funny to see all the whms crying about a new Regen spell for sch, as a drk we had a lot of our spells ripped from us and whms came in our forums and told us to stop whining, whm kept the precious cure V and now they are still bitching about sch getting regen 5. Rdm had regen several months before whm, whm ripped regen from rdm, and now sch is the master of regen. The whining whms get over yourself, you were never entitled to regen V SE kept cure V and VI whm only and still you whine there's tons of whm only cures get off sch back they need and should have regen V and maybe even regen 6.

I can't decide whether I want to swallow my pride and agree with you, or just make fun of you for your continued perpetuation of the "Drks are emo" stereotype, that normally comes as more of a joke but seems to be the real deal in your case.

I'll take the third option: HEY LOOK, A DANCING PUPPY!

[Ashay]

LoL its funny to see all the whms crying about a new Regen spell for sch, as a drk we had a lot of our spells ripped from us and whms came in our forums and told us to stop whining, whm kept the precious cure V and now they are still bitching about sch getting regen 5. Rdm had regen several months before whm, whm ripped regen from rdm, and now sch is the master of regen. The whining whms get over yourself, you were never entitled to regen V SE kept cure V and VI whm only and still you whine there's tons of whm only cures get off sch back they need and should have regen V and maybe even regen 6.

Yeah, because I'm so sure I was one of the WHMs on the DRK forum telling you all to stop complaining. I didn't realize it was such a sin to post an opinion on something in a game I've been playing for a long time.

Bottom line is, Regen is a huge part of WHM. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be Regen Effect merits, there wouldn't be multiple pieces of equipment that enhance Regen. Cleric's Briault +2, Enhances potency of "Regen" II. Where's that at for RDM or SCH? Don't get in my face talking about the job when you clearly have no idea.

I cast Regen IV a lot and find it to be pretty useful for the things I do in game every day, so yeah, it's a blow not getting Regen V. Considering SCH isn't even getting Regen IV until this next update, it's just kind of funny. You'd think they'd give Regen V to SCH at Lv.95 and WHM at Lv.99, but no, they clearly have other plans even though they've been pushing that Regen be more useful all along.

In the end, I don't really care for Regen V that much. I can still use Regen IV, and it'll be usable with Accession come the update so that's great. My one reserve was that I was hoping the Regen buff with Light Arts would be for SCH sub as well, but it's not.

[Cljader1]

Yeah, because I'm so sure I was one of the WHMs on the DRK forum telling you all to stop complaining. I didn't realize it was such a sin to post an opinion on something in a game I've been playing for a long time.

Bottom line is, Regen is a huge part of WHM. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be Regen Effect merits, there wouldn't be multiple pieces of equipment that enhance Regen. Cleric's Briault +2, Enhances potency of "Regen" II. Where's that at for RDM or SCH? Don't get in my face talking about the job when you clearly have no idea.

I cast Regen IV a lot and find it to be pretty useful for the things I do in game every day, so yeah, it's a blow not getting Regen V. Considering SCH isn't even getting Regen IV until this next update, it's just kind of funny. You'd think they'd give Regen V to SCH at Lv.95 and WHM at Lv.99, but no, they clearly have other plans even though they've been pushing that Regen be more useful all along.

In the end, I don't really care for Regen V that much. I can still use Regen IV, and it'll be usable with Accession come the update so that's great. My one reserve was that I was hoping the Regen buff with Light Arts would be for SCH sub as well, but it's not.


Would you feel better if Regen V was called Healing Helix instead? Hate to burst your bubble but this was in the work for a long time, sch's wanted and needed a Healing Helix and SE agreed and gave it to them in their own way. Instead of a Curing Helix, SE decided to do the same thing by giving them a higher tier regen with a sizable Light Arts Boost. Do you understand how hard it is to heal on sch? Regen power is part of sch's arsenal heck its even in their 2hr Embrava, furthermore there a direct JA that increase regen's duration. Sch is clearly more equip to use the spells, whms should focus on cures and schs will support you with powerful regens.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Yeah, because I'm so sure I was one of the WHMs on the DRK forum telling you all to stop complaining. I didn't realize it was such a sin to post an opinion on something in a game I've been playing for a long time.

Bottom line is, Regen is a huge part of WHM. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be Regen Effect merits, there wouldn't be multiple pieces of equipment that enhance Regen. Cleric's Briault +2, Enhances potency of "Regen" II. Where's that at for RDM or SCH? Don't get in my face talking about the job when you clearly have no idea.

I cast Regen IV a lot and find it to be pretty useful for the things I do in game every day, so yeah, it's a blow not getting Regen V. Considering SCH isn't even getting Regen IV until this next update, it's just kind of funny. You'd think they'd give Regen V to SCH at Lv.95 and WHM at Lv.99, but no, they clearly have other plans even though they've been pushing that Regen be more useful all along.

In the end, I don't really care for Regen V that much. I can still use Regen IV, and it'll be usable with Accession come the update so that's great. My one reserve was that I was hoping the Regen buff with Light Arts would be for SCH sub as well, but it's not.

Doesn't change the FACT it was a RDM spell first, then given to WHM, now to SCH. Deal with it.

They didn't remove your merits, they still work. WHM is just inferior to SCH now where Regen's are concerned.

[Aleste]

As a white, i feel like it's a little bit of a slap in the face to have regen merits and enhances regen on our relic body only to not have access to the highest tier regen spell.

Though, the scholar in me is saying that giving them cure V would be too overpowered. Regen spells fit nicely into the type of mage that scholar is, so I guess them having Regen V will be a welcome change.

Now what to do with my regen set/merits....

[Theytak]

Yeah, because I'm so sure I was one of the WHMs on the DRK forum telling you all to stop complaining. I didn't realize it was such a sin to post an opinion on something in a game I've been playing for a long time.

Bottom line is, Regen is a huge part of WHM. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be Regen Effect merits, there wouldn't be multiple pieces of equipment that enhance Regen. Cleric's Briault +2, Enhances potency of "Regen" II. Where's that at for RDM or SCH? Don't get in my face talking about the job when you clearly have no idea.

I cast Regen IV a lot and find it to be pretty useful for the things I do in game every day, so yeah, it's a blow not getting Regen V. Considering SCH isn't even getting Regen IV until this next update, it's just kind of funny. You'd think they'd give Regen V to SCH at Lv.95 and WHM at Lv.99, but no, they clearly have other plans even though they've been pushing that Regen be more useful all along.

In the end, I don't really care for Regen V that much. I can still use Regen IV, and it'll be usable with Accession come the update so that's great. My one reserve was that I was hoping the Regen buff with Light Arts would be for SCH sub as well, but it's not.

Given how basically all of whms gear and abilities are centered around the "Cure" line of spells, with the next largest focus probably being the "barelement" spells, I think you, and everyone else trying to claim the same thing, are pulling "Regen is a huge part of WHM" out of your ass. At this point in the game, regen isn't a huge, big, or even medium sized part of whm. Regen is a small part of whm's immensely powerful healing repertoire that most whms don't even bother making use of due to its lack of efficiency relative to other healing methods, primarily cures. Whm easily caps cure potency, something that is far more difficult for all the other jobs with cure spells, and even takes it a step further by totally bypassing the cure soft and hard caps via cureskin. Whm is also far, far, far more efficient with group heals than the other jobs with the ability, especially sch, due to how accession doubles mp cost and casting time. Whm loses absolutely nothing on any front by sch getting regen V.

Oh, and since you guys all want to complain about sch stealing something from whm (regens), I'd like to call your attention to how whm completely stole something from sch. Both are even present in merits! I'm talking about how whm's "Boost-" line of spells pretty much copied and then totally dwarf sch's Cat2 Merit Stormsurge. Sch's can give +7 to a stat at best, with 5 merits. Whms can give +15 to a stat by sneezing, and with the available enhancing gear, will be able to pass +20~25 at 99. Do I really care about this? No; however the comparison stands.

Seriously people, enough whining. You're starting to sound like a bunch of angsty melee rdms bitching about how they're not recognized for the fact that they want to pretend to be a melee class.





....*dives for the fox hole*

[Ashay]

Would you feel better if Regen V was called Healing Helix instead? Hate to burst your bubble but this was in the work for a long time, sch's wanted and needed a Healing Helix and SE agreed and gave it to them in their own way. Instead of a Curing Helix, SE decided to do the same thing by giving them a higher tier regen with a sizable Light Arts Boost. Do you understand how hard it is to heal on sch? Regen power is part of sch's arsenal heck its even in their 2hr Embrava, furthermore there a direct JA that increase regen's duration. Sch is clearly more equip to use the spells, whms should focus on cures and schs will support you with powerful regens.

Yes, I have Scholar leveled, so I realize that healing can be a challenge for the job. I was all for Scholar getting Cure V. It's getting tier V black magic so I don't see why it's not getting Cure V.

I said before that I don't care much about Regen V, but I'd like to know why SCH as a support job won't get the buff to Regen while under Light Arts. As Raksha said, why limit it unnecessarily? Given that SQEX has been pushing Regen's importance, which is what I've been mentioning all along, you'd think they would want to allow every job the ability to enhance the spell in any way possible. SQEX is making the spell a huge part of WHM by having merits for the job, and equipment that is specific to WHM.

Also, it's not hard to cap Cure Potency for jobs with Cure spells unless you mean PLD. Surya's Staff +3 is +23%, Heka's Kalasiris is +15%, Augur's Gloves are +4%, Tatsumaki Sitagoromo can have +5% in augments, not to mention Roundel Earring which is another 5%.

[Economizer]

I can't decide whether I want to swallow my pride and agree with you, or just make fun of you for your continued perpetuation of the "Drks are emo" stereotype, that normally comes as more of a joke but seems to be the real deal in your case.

He's refering to a thread where he complained about Puppetmaster getting some of the Dark Knight spells. While I don't remember if I highlighted the fact that Puppets can cast Cure V/VI and nobody really thinks they can outheal even someone subbing White Mage, I do remember I thoroughly destroyed the complaints in a logical and sound manner, and then have got to watch him complain about it up and down the Dark Knight threads just because the job I listed as "main job" on my profile happens to be White Mage.

I'm sure he's reading this, thinking about how much more he is going to complain about having his complaints routed, and I'd like to remind him that Afflatus Misery and Scarlet Delirium share a lot of traits suspiciously in common (I happily remember pointing this out on several occasions because I am suspicious they share some code on some level - not because I would care in the remotest sense that another job could use it or something designed to be crappy like it is).


Bottom line is, Regen is a huge part of WHM. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be Regen Effect merits, there wouldn't be multiple pieces of equipment that enhance Regen. Cleric's Briault +2, Enhances potency of "Regen" II. Where's that at for RDM or SCH? Don't get in my face talking about the job when you clearly have no idea.

Scholar is getting bigger buffs to Regen spells then we are with Light Arts, does that make it more of a part of their job then ours? To be honest, I wish they never had the Regen Effect merits, and I hope they delete them in favor of something else, because they certainly would have never reduced Regen cast times just for White Mage, or it would have been done ages ago before SCH was ever a job. If there is anything to be mad about here, I'd say it is that and that alone.


I cast Regen IV a lot and find it to be pretty useful for the things I do in game every day

Why? It is MP inefficient and takes ages to cast. Please tell me you don't have merits in it. D:


They didn't remove your merits, they still work.

They should remove them, and give us something else. Not even because of this change, but because it sucks... well not as bad as Divine Seal and Banish Effect merits do, but sheesh. Of all of the jobs, I don't think any other Category 1 is as easy to decide as White Mage.


Given how basically all of whms gear and abilities are centered around the "Cure" line of spells, with the next largest focus probably being the "barelement" spells, I think you, and everyone else trying to claim the same thing, are pulling "Regen is a huge part of WHM" out of your ass.

To be fair to White Mages complaining about this, nearly 20% of White Mages had merits in Regen (http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/guide/development/census/10/3.html) for the 10th Census data.

I'd like to think this was a result of not having AF3 pants yet or something, or because they don't feel the need for cure cast time merits. I suppose if you didn't want cure cast time merits, and your choices (obviously you chose Barspell effect) were Regen effect, Banish effect, and Divine Seal recast I think the choice would be obvious (of a White Mage's five merit choices, Regen potency isn't the worst... let that sink in a moment).

Anyways, I can basically say that while some anger about this change is understandable (I was a bit miffed that they changed the cast times now instead of ages ago - plus, I still haven't seen Red Mage get even Regen III yet!), I don't think it is unfair for Scholar to get Regen V.

I know that the minority of people coming in here just to say "haha every WHM evar are upset 3fsefeopoo?AFF?A CURE V!!!!11" don't represent the majority of people (a good portion of which are career White Mages) who calmly explained to the OP that Regen V isn't really going to make Regen spells not suck for White Mages, but I shudder to think that someone might think they do. I'm not one of them.

[Ashay]

Why? It is MP inefficient and takes ages to cast. Please tell me you don't have merits in it. D:

I don't have Regen Effect merits, though I might merit it if we had 15 as a limit for group one. I have Cure Cast Time 5/5 and Barspell Effect 5/5. I like to use Regen IV when the need arises for small cures here and there, because it's more effective while fighting weaker monsters, personally. I usually enfeeble enemies a lot, so Regen gives me a bit of time to do so, and I'll toss Cure III or IV if I need that Stoneskin to bide some time.

[Cljader1]

Well its good to see that there are whms that understand what SE is doing, SE deliberately made sure they did not step on whms toes by dishing out cure V to sch. So what they did instead is enhance the niche for sch to be a support mage, by increasing sch healing capabilities through different methods but at the same time keeping whm king at its job. As a career drk I can appreciate a sch hitting me with a potent regen it would allow me to use my souleater more often without the worry of hp loss. With all of this being said SE still need to address rdm curing, because its still horrendous.

[Economizer]

I don't have Regen Effect merits, though I might merit it if we had 15 as a limit for group one. I have Cure Cast Time 5/5 and Barspell Effect 5/5.

I think this is more of a consequence of the other two choices sucking more then Regen Effect though. Maybe if the Divine Seal recast merit floored the recast at 3~5 minutes (or less) or the Banish effect merit did um... (okay I don't know how they'd fix that) then we'd be more inclined to choose different choices. Well, more inclined if they gave us fifteen merits at least.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Once I'm close to capping cure cast time without them (which won't be for awhile without VW body/Relic+2 head) I'd drop cure cast merits maybe for regen, and if there was 15 merits I'd probably do Divine Seal Recast too.

[SpankWustler]

Once I'm close to capping cure cast time without them (which won't be for awhile without VW body/Relic+2 head) I'd drop cure cast merits maybe for regen, and if there was 15 merits I'd probably do Divine Seal Recast too.

I'm under the impression, from the latest version of Cleric's Cap +2 that I saw in Julian's .dat listings last week, that it only affects the "Cura" line.

Clr. Cap +2 Rare Exclusive
Head
DEF:31 MP+35 VIT+7 MND+7
"Cura" casting time -10% Enmity-7
Lv90 WHM

Yeah, I was disappointed too.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Oh boy... well it seems Surya's Staff+4 gets another -2% casting time... I'll have to go over all the pieces needed later. It probably means Heka's Kalasiris or Nefer+1 then...

[OuShiroHeart]

I'm under the impression, from the latest version of Cleric's Cap +2 that I saw in Julian's .dat listings last week, that it only affects the "Cura" line.

Clr. Cap +2 Rare Exclusive
Head
DEF:31 MP+35 VIT+7 MND+7
"Cura" casting time -10% Enmity-7
Lv90 WHM

Yeah, I was disappointed too.

It is cure.
ＣＲキャップ+2
防31 MP+35 VIT+7 MND+7
ケアル詠唱時間-10% 敵対心-7
Lv90～　白
ケアル=Cure, ケアルラ=Cura

[Seiowan]

Speaking as both a White Mage and a Scholar, I'm rather pleased to see Scholar get Regen V as a unique spell. As a White Mage, be honest with yourselves now, how often have you really cast Regen spells? In all likelihood, it was either a long time ago or only done for rare events where curing simply wasn't enough.

For those White Mage prima donna's still complaining, I just have two words for you. Afflatus Solace.

Face it boys and girls, this one job ability has transformed the class into the ultimate healer. Every single healing spell grants damage mitigation, we can remove multiple statuses in an instant using Sacrifice and we can power up our Holy spell to make it actually worth the MP cost. It's a very powerful tool in itself, and that's before I mention Afflatus Misery and Esuna.

The point is, Regen or no Regen we've got it pretty good. There is no competition right now, and while that might be great for the white mages, it's not doing scholar's much good. In my mind, Scholar is practically screaming for adjustments that make them stand out. They're not Black Mages, and they're no White Mage either. They're neither and yet both. They have little identity of their own, and that's where they need the most adjustments.

My only gripe, if there is to be one, is that Regen V needs to be considerably more powerful if it's to make Scholar's into viable healers.

[Raksha]

Also, it's not hard to cap Cure Potency for jobs with Cure spells unless you mean PLD. Surya's Staff +3 is +23%, Heka's Kalasiris is +15%, Augur's Gloves are +4%, Tatsumaki Sitagoromo can have +5% in augments, not to mention Roundel Earring which is another 5%.

I must've missed this, but sch can't use roundel earring and heka is almost nonexistant. in order to cap cure potency sch has to equip basically every piece of cure potency gear it can get (including scenario gear).

[Neisan_Quetz]

23% Staff + 3% fylgja+1 + 5% serpentes + 4% Oretenia's is 35%, heka's would be capped, 5% from cap with NQ Nefer and you'd need to waste ASA legs but not head.

New goliard legs is 7% if it matters but no clue on how to get it yet.

[Raksha]

23% Staff + 3% fylgja+1 + 5% serpentes + 4% Oretenia's is 35%, heka's would be capped, 5% from cap with NQ Nefer and you'd need to waste ASA legs but not head.

New goliard legs is 7% if it matters but no clue on how to get it yet.

i had forgotten about the new cape, but that is basically all the cure potency gear that sch can equip (without scenario rewards).

[Neisan_Quetz]

Don't worry though, Rdm has it almost as bad, they just don't need scenario rewards. For balance, Sch can Aurastorm and Rapture!

[Raksha]

Don't worry though, Rdm has it almost as bad, they just don't need scenario rewards. For balance, Sch can Aurastorm and Rapture!

SCH also has emp+2 hat, but if you use that you lose the cure potency on MKE cap /sigh.

[Alkimi]

I like to use Regen IV when the need arises for small cures here and there, because it's more effective while fighting weaker monsters, personally. I usually enfeeble enemies a lot, so Regen gives me a bit of time to do so, and I'll toss Cure III or IV if I need that Stoneskin to bide some time.

Assuming using Light Arts and all the gear to enhance the two:

Regen IV = 875HP healed over 75 seconds for 74 MP
Cure V = 1050HP healed instantly for ~69 MP and a 367HP stoneskin effect for 30 seconds.

So if fighting weaker monsters, taking gradual damage, aren't in danger of getting hit for heavy damage, and the WHM is busy doing other things then yes Regen may be worth it but personally I really don't bother. It's still less efficient than cures and in the limited situations where you can use Regen you are probably better off having a BRD/WHM heal you.

[Alhanelem]

Cure V is 134 MP base, not 69. HP per MP using your cure amounts = 7.83
Regen IV is 82 MP base, not 74. HP per MP = 11.82

Regen IV is significantly more MP efficient.

If you want to throw in light arts, it affects both spells, as does the MP cost down strategem. But this is really about SCH main, and considering SCH doesn't have Cure V, Regen V will be a reasonable alternative to Cure IV when the healing need isn't ultra-dire (e.g. the target isn't going to die in 1 more hit)

[Alkimi]

When used with Orison+2 legs it costs around 69 MP

[Alhanelem]

When used with Orison+2 legs it costs around 69 MP
Only if none of the cure amount is wasted to filling the target's HP, and only if you have this item. Also, this is a thread about Scholar and Regen, and not White Mage. Even if SCH ever got Cure V, it would not have the Orison +2 legs.

[Economizer]

Also, this is a thread about Scholar and Regen, and not White Mage.

The OP was complaining that WHM didn't get Regen V, so ultimately, this is a thread about both White Mage and Scholar.

White Mage gets the AF3+2 legs, and has Cure V, so not having Regen V isn't that big a deal.

Scholar does not get those things, and thus Regens are more MP efficient for it, and is getting Regen V.

[Prothscar]

Overarching MP efficiency is not job dependent.

[Mirage]

Cure V is 134 MP base, not 69. HP per MP using your cure amounts = 7.83
Regen IV is 82 MP base, not 74. HP per MP = 11.82

Regen IV is significantly more MP efficient.

If you want to throw in light arts, it affects both spells, as does the MP cost down strategem. But this is really about SCH main, and considering SCH doesn't have Cure V, Regen V will be a reasonable alternative to Cure IV when the healing need isn't ultra-dire (e.g. the target isn't going to die in 1 more hit)

Counting cureskin, the MP efficiency is actually around 10.2 HP per MP, and the cureskin is very relevant in a main healer scenario. This is also before counting orison pants +1/+2.

Also, pants +1/+2 makes makes light arts more valuable when casting cures than it normally is. Assuming you get back 52 MP per cure 5, your net MP use will be 83 without light arts, and 70 with light arts. That's roughly a 16% decrease in MP cost rather than the usual 10%.

This acceleration of MP-decrease is also enhanced by the use of divine seal and penury. using the same values as before, Penury causes Cure V to cost 9 mp, divine seal 18 mp, and using both makes you actually gain 43 mp (edit: apparently not!).

The above examples are calculated using 100 mnd, 80 vit, 396 healing skill, 50% cure potency and orison pantaloons +2.

My math might be a bit rusty, and I sometimes have a tendency to forget about small but vital parts of calculations. Feel free to point out errors or inaccuracies if you find them.

[Economizer]

and using both makes you actually gain 43 mp.

Sadly, no. The AF3+2 pants can only reduce the cost of a spell to 0 MP, they cannot make you gain MP. I was somewhat sad when I heard this too.

[Mirage]

Aw. Well that sucks. It wouldn't really be overpowered in either case, as you would only be able to do it like once every 8 minutes (assuming divine seal merits, but who's crazy enough to do that?).

Looking at the numbers again though, seems like Penury Cure5, Penury Cure5, Divine Seal Cure5 actually saves you 330 MP (assuming no overhealing), while combining a divine seal and penury (if it actually had worked) only would have saved you 278 MP, so it wouldn't have been a smart thing to do in most cases anyway.