The reason for -23 seconds BP timer on relic+2

[Malamasala]

Anyone that can figure it out?

I'd like to think they are removing the cap and we'll have a blast in the future.

But my negative experience with SMN updates says that they just want to give us even more options for which pieces to macro in to get to the -15 cap.

[Clou777]

where does it say anything on relic +2?

[Soranika]

If it's on. The full set, then two things come to mind. They're either increasing -BP timer or recognized that no one would wear the full relic +2 set, thus making options for gear mix matching.

Or it could be a typo blunder... Either way, if this is on the test server, then it's better to have the discussion there.

[Dreamin]

Same reasons why SE has it for MNK to have more than +26% haste without trying?

[Clou777]

how do u know theres a -23 BP set?

[Annalise]

Random kind of pointless ramble but something that I thought about in regards to the set...

I think the -BP being -23 on a single set or armor is a bit different than monk getting more than 26% haste easily, though. The haste on Monk (or any other job for that matter) exceeding cap is mixed and matched between various armor sets. To me, if the cap is still going to remain -15 BP timer and they put -23 on the set, that seems a bit pointless and not well thought out on their end. It makes sense to exceed the cap mix and matching gear, but (and I could be wrong here) I think it seems kind of odd to exceed the cap with one gear set.

To me if you're going to use Monk as an example that would be like putting 30% haste on the Tantra +2 gear, so that wearing the full set grants over the haste cap and is simply wasted. That would be like making a five piece armor set with massive PDR on it that exceeds the cap, making wearing the full set pointless.

Granted, there are few sets of armor aside from Empyrean that someone will wear the full set of... (e.g. people would wear full usukane or morrigan or homam) but looking at the gear as -a set- it's kind of odd.
I don't think there is any other armor set in the game to my knowledge where the full set has a trivial stat on it because it exceeds the cap. There is no set that by itself exceeds the cap on +/- Enmity, haste, store TP (though I don't know that this has a cap, we may not be able to hit that high), subtle blow, MDR, PDR, DR, Cure potency, dual wield, fast cast, -song, or anything else that I can think of.

The Summoner's +2 set would be the only set in the game that exceeds a cap on something and thus has some trivial stats in the sense of using the whole set. For the 100th time in this post... I just think that's odd.

[Sasaraixx]

Confirmed on the JP forum today. The set will not break the -15 second cap.

The cap is already so easy to reach, and unlike Haste gear, you really don't have to sacrifice anything to get the full benefit. You can simply swap to your Ward or Rage gear before the pact goes off. You're also not really saving inventory space either.

Let's hope the +3 stats are better. It's really hard to find a macro piece for Rage pacts because the Empyrean set is so good.

[Sargent]

Relic +2 Horn and Feet are still decent, depending on the Blood Pact. +2 hands are still the best skill hands, and +2 Body actually beats Caller's +2 provided you can shift the -1 perp elsewhere (i.e. Nashira hands). Where we all want the BP delay cap removed, I doubt it's gonna happen.

[Sasaraixx]

As individual pieces they are fairly nice, but you lower the chances of the AF3 set bonus from proc'ing. I also don't know if a 6% crit rate is better than 10% damage + higher chance of the set bonus. This is all for damage of course.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Sincerely doubt 6% crit rate will beat 10% BP damage.

[Sasaraixx]

Sincerely doubt 6% crit rate will beat 10% BP damage.

/nod Agreed.

[Annalise]

I think Sargent meant as an idle piece (as in letting your avatar melee in it), and not as a bloodpact piece, hence the mention of the perpetuation.

If you have a free avatar with either, the new relic body beats caller's +2 for avatar auto-attack, and caller's beats relic for bloodpact.

[Dekusuta]

From what I could find, here are the +2 stats.
http://www.zam.com/forum.html?forum=250&mid=132165259645782159#3

Seems really haphazard, and I hope it's adjusted. It is as if the abyssea team all left to work on FFXIV and they rehired the old FFXI team from 2006 to design their version of the ultimate Job gear, by 2006 standards.

And why are we losing Avatar Enmity+ from our +1? Not enough lines in old relic gear for stats? Overall the relic +2 seems to have a lot less to offer than empyreans in terms of amount of stats in a single piece.

Here are some of my impressions (depressing... most of it)

Summoner's Pigaches +2 has enhance Avatar Attack, Adding Crit +6% or another stat that boosts damage would have helped. Instead we get magic Crit. I would still keep my Empyrean for the set bonus. And to add insult, the occasion where I do use this piece, for physical BPs, I LOSE the extra enmity. UGH!

Summoner's Horn +2 has -3 Perp, but We lose 2 refresh from Caller's +2, which given a refresh build would be counter productive. A well geared SMN with trial staff can easily get +5 refresh with -1 perp to spare assuming they bump up perp by 1 again at 99.

Unless they plan to boost avatar perp significantly for no real reason other than to punish summoners and gimp us even more, the horn is situational at best. MAB bonus is nice, but again, it forces you to choose between AF3 set bonus and this.

Overall this feels a lot like AF+1 being added into Limbus after they introduced Relic+1. A few situational pieces will be good, but most of it will be ignored.

Really disappointing. I hope they 1) Add a set bonus to Relic +2, rejig the stats so they make more sense and really give us 1 or 2 must have pieces rather than more sidegrades, for a lvl 99 gear too.

Also note the shock (a real one) that SE seemingly forgets to add a refresh piece to the SMN relic set again. I mean, this is only the third revision to the set, 4th if you include the AF which had a bunch of stats that were downright dangerous to our job, like -enmity on the avatar.



Edit: RE: -23 BP delay, it's possible that while the cap hasn't changed, there will be an ability, summon or buff that will allow us to break this barrier for a short burst.

-25 seems like a nice round number. And SE will add in a piece wiht -2 and place it in some new battlefield or NM

[Annalise]

I thought they said it would have two upgrade stages. I also thought I read somewhere it was increasing the base stats of what's already on there, and then something new on top of it. So these could only be stage one so far.

[Dekusuta]

I thought they said it would have two upgrade stages. I also thought I read somewhere it was increasing the base stats of what's already on there, and then something new on top of it. So these could only be stage one so far.

That's possible, but stage 1 empyreans are in many ways already better than this.

Would you take 5% boost to damage from BP from Caller's +1 body to a 6% roll of the dice on crits?

Also while WHM get's Enhance Regen II on their body piece, it does not appear SMNs get upgraded Enhance Avatar Attack II or Enhance Avatar Acc II on ours, something that may tilt the math to using these pieces. Further more, we lose avatar enmity +2 on both legs and feet (really puzzling...) and none of the pieces get a refresh stat.


What the Summoner set is lacking are interesting stats and workarounds to existing problems like more refresh intead of -avatar perps due to the odd way perp is counted and short of major bump in perp, more -perp is just wasted.

On another note I'm still holding out hope the BP timer cap is broken somehow through a timed ability, avatar buff or spell.

[Annalise]

That's possible, but stage 1 empyreans are in many ways already better than this.

Would you take 5% boost to damage from BP from Caller's +1 body to a 6% roll of the dice on crits?

Also while WHM get's Enhance Regen II on their body piece, it does not appear SMNs get upgraded Enhance Avatar Attack II or Enhance Avatar Acc II on ours, something that may tilt the math to using these pieces. Further more, we lose avatar enmity +2 on both legs and feet (really puzzling...) and none of the pieces get a refresh stat.


What the Summoner set is lacking are interesting stats and workarounds to existing problems like more refresh intead of -avatar perps due to the odd way perp is counted and short of major bump in perp, more -perp is just wasted.

On another note I'm still holding out hope the BP timer cap is broken somehow through a timed ability, avatar buff or spell.

I mean adding something completely different onto it for the second stage, and not just increased stats. It's possible they could add something entirely new.

[Malamasala]

I can feel how SE will add cure potency and MAB as the new special and unique +3 bonuses. I mean, that is what they put on all our other armors they keep adding.

[Tannlore]

Horn looks promising for MAB usage. The Emp +2 set bonus is good and all, but still a roll of the dice for activation (thank god not as bad as the new relic body +2's crit). Would be interesting to see if the more consistent/reliable boost from the +2 relic horn is enough to lose that small piece of the Emp +2 bonus.

RNG is.... random and if the RNG gods are not on your side, your RNG based damage will suck. Sometimes you get lucky.. sometimes you don't. Test server needs to come back up so I can test moar!

As for the BP timer thing, SE did say they were looking at giving us an ability that cuts our BP timer down. This might end up being the only reason to get this set lol. I'd be curious to see what the "merit" augments look like that I've read about. I haven't seen those yet.