Warping Directly To BCNM Circles

[svengalis]

Now I know SE does everything in their power to keep us playing this game FOREVER, one of their tactics: putting BCNM circles in far away places to add a time sync. Now I am one of those people who don't like to do BCNM because the main issue I have with them is the time it takes to long to get to them. Another is the terrible drop rates. I could deal with the terrible drop rates if I did not have to walk 10 miles to the circle. It would be nice if they were to let Shami or add an NPC that warps us directly to the BCNM circles even if it was for a fee(like a small amount of cruor or gil) if they wanted to.

[Dova_quetz]

They definitely should add this. That way RMT can get to bcnms easier so that they can flood the market with gil items again. Also, they should add a npc to warp you to where NMs pop. But not at anytime. Only right before its about to pop. Lord knows the run to Khim is dangerous. Also since we are letting laziness from real life transcend over into video games, I would like all fight mechanics to be done automatically as chances are high I'm going to win the battle anyways. I won't be as mad when nothing drops if i have to do 0 work.

[svengalis]

They definitely should add this. That way RMT can get to bcnms easier so that they can flood the market with gil items again. Also, they should add a npc to warp you to where NMs pop. But not at anytime. Only right before its about to pop. Lord knows the run to Khim is dangerous. Also since we are letting laziness from real life transcend over into video games, I would like all fight mechanics to be done automatically as chances are high I'm going to win the battle anyways. I won't be as mad when nothing drops if i have to do 0 work.

Some of us have a REAL life outside of the game that we have responsibilities to but hey I guess you don't.

[Dova_quetz]

Then don't play?


And sidenote RL card generally means the opposite

[Zaknafein]

Need to focus on a dictionary in real life. That way when you whine for nerfs in a nerfed game you'll know the difference between sync, and sink.

[svengalis]

Need to focus on a dictionary in real life. That way when you whine for nerfs in a nerfed game you'll know the difference between sync, and sink.

I'm sorry didn't know this was English 101.

[svengalis]

So I make a suggestion to move this game forward and enhance gameplay for everyone and you guys come in here and try to derail my thread? Do us casual players all a favor and go get a life please.

[Vold]

That way RMT can get to bcnms easier so that they can flood the market with gil items again. They already are. They've been doing VW to sell the high end synergy drops, on top of their cleaving for gil efforts, of course. I just love all the Querandomassortmentofletterss running around Quetz lately. They're making quite a bit of gil on the AH. I'm still trying to figure out why they're even bothering. Who's pathetic enough to have a need to buy gil these days raise your hands.

[Vold]

BTW I support ports to BCNM and have done so for a good 7 years. Mostly because I got sick to death of doing KC BC runs.

[Runespider]

Now I know SE does everything in their power to keep us playing this game FOREVER, one of their tactics: putting BCNM circles in far away places to add a time sync. Now I am one of those people who don't like to do BCNM because the main issue I have with them is the time it takes to get to them.

They won't change it, the timesink part is quite important but also the fact it's annoying to get their limits supply. If it was easy to get to the BCNMs vastly more people would do them and the drops would be worth far far less, which would mean they would be less worth doing anyway.

[svengalis]

They won't change it, the timesink part is quite important but also the fact it's annoying to get their limits supply. If it was easy to get to the BCNMs vastly more people would do them and the drops would be worth far far less, which would mean they would be less worth doing anyway.

Not necessarily. I just did one today for Brown Belt quest item because I didn't want to camp a 21-24 hour NM. I thought it was kinda ridiculous though that everytime I wanted to do it I had to walk all the way to Horlais Peak. This would also help with the spell situation that many of us have obtaining the new BLM spells.

[svengalis]

They definitely should add this. That way RMT can get to bcnms easier so that they can flood the market with gil items again. Also, they should add a npc to warp you to where NMs pop. But not at anytime. Only right before its about to pop. Lord knows the run to Khim is dangerous. Also since we are letting laziness from real life transcend over into video games, I would like all fight mechanics to be done automatically as chances are high I'm going to win the battle anyways. I won't be as mad when nothing drops if i have to do 0 work.

LOL at RMT seriously you need to get over it. They have been here for years and they are clearly not going anywhere.

[svengalis]

They definitely should add this. That way RMT can get to bcnms easier so that they can flood the market with gil items again. Also, they should add a npc to warp you to where NMs pop. But not at anytime. Only right before its about to pop. Lord knows the run to Khim is dangerous. Also since we are letting laziness from real life transcend over into video games, I would like all fight mechanics to be done automatically as chances are high I'm going to win the battle anyways. I won't be as mad when nothing drops if i have to do 0 work.

If it's easier for EVERYONE to do what makes you think RMT will be able to flood the market and control it? RMT play this game 24/7 they have all the time in the world so these long walks to these circles are no problem for them. I wouldn't be surprised if RMT were the only ones doing these fights for the spells.

[Arcon]

They definitely should add this. That way RMT can get to bcnms easier so that they can flood the market with gil items again. Also, they should add a npc to warp you to where NMs pop. But not at anytime. Only right before its about to pop. Lord knows the run to Khim is dangerous. Also since we are letting laziness from real life transcend over into video games, I would like all fight mechanics to be done automatically as chances are high I'm going to win the battle anyways. I won't be as mad when nothing drops if i have to do 0 work.

Yeah, and to hell with Horst, why should he warp you to the North Gustaberg maw? All those lazy people are ruining our game. What's another half hour to get there to enter the zone? And the Voidwatch warps, seriously? Do you really need to save an extra 20 minutes between each fight? Is your time that valuable? You're playing an online game for fuck's sake, so obviously not. And what about airships? Screw them, it's just a tool used by RMT to get around faster. And Chocobos! Don't even mention them. Just the other day I saw Galigg and Baligg on a Chocobo. Not one of them. Both. And movement speed gear! It's only sold by RMT in the first place. And at the same time it's used by them. They do twice the damage! All these lazy people are ruining our game. We were perfectly fine walking for 45 minutes to get to Jeuno, but no, they're too good for that. Now all of us are suffering. Check out that Dova guy, for example, he's obviously sustained severe brain damage. All the RMT's doing, I'm sure of it.

[Ladycandygem]

I would definitely be in favour of this change. I rarely do BCNMs, and a large part of this is because of the hassle of getting to the fight.

Even if they added a limit to prevent abuse, such as only being allowed one warp per game day, or real life day, it would be a welcome improvement.

[Ryce]

I don't do too many BCs anymore, but I don't mind the walk out there. It's one of the few remaining adventures in the game. Not that it's dangerous or anything... just an opportunity to revisit the old zones, one-shot the lowly NMs that used to harass you when you were a n00b, reexamine the map 10 times to make sure you're still headed the right way, and cap it off with a high-stakes boss fight. Ahh the good ol' days.

[Olor]

They won't change it, the timesink part is quite important but also the fact it's annoying to get their limits supply. If it was easy to get to the BCNMs vastly more people would do them and the drops would be worth far far less, which would mean they would be less worth doing anyway.


They are still limited by seals... so maybe people would use up their seals but after the initial push the supply would normalize again.

I support this suggestion.

[Kensagaku]

While I wouldn't mind such an implementation, as it would be a nice time-saver, I still disagree with the fundamental basis on it. To be honest? It's just a laziness factor. The other warps have purposes behind them: Abyssea warps are important because this is a whole huge dimension that's opened up and its inhabitants are begging us for aid. Voidwatch warps take priority because this is a horde of interdimensional beings that are trying to make their way into our world for Altana knows what reason. I haven't gotten that far in the VW cutscenes yet, having only just unlocked the Jeuno path for myself. Outposts? Nations set them up on purpose to allow travel between regions under their control.

BCNMs and the like, however, are areas within beastmen control. We have no control over these areas, so the nations have no reason nor means of bringing you there. These areas have no impact on a larger world, like Abyssea or Voidwatch, so no one cares enough to bring you there quickly. Pretty much, the orbs you are given from Shami are just monsters contained in spheres that you can release in one of the beastmen Burning Circles and fight to try and get whatever loot they may have on them. It's almost like the concept of Pokemon (an amusing metaphor, I suppose...), with you carrying the monster in a little orb to release whenever you want to, though this requires particular circumstances. Yeah, it's odd that the monster in the orb varies with the burning circle, but that's a little inconsistency I never found an explanation for.

Basically, the tl;dr is that while I'd like this, I don't feel that it'd have a proper reason for being implemented.

[Komori]

Technically, abyssea has no effect on our world IIRC. We could have just done diddly squat and let them all die and we could just jump into maws to warm up to all the dead bodies.

[Kensagaku]

Yes, but we're adventurers, paragons of justice and heroism and whatnot. We'd want to save at least one person... just so long as it isn't Brygid. She can die in a fire. Multiple fires. Please?

[Komori]

But you made it a point that BCNMs hold no value because they do not effect the world entirely. Yet Abyssea is a exception for moral reasons? I would assume that elimating any beastmen; infiltrating their strongholds and cutting down their numbers and defeating some of their bosses or exceptionally dangerous creatures would hold some purpose that they do not continue to wreak havoc or do not grow to even get the chance to. But that's just me, I don't think it would be too much to ask to make the warps or maybe add the warps and make new BCNMs based on more beastmen NMs, making the orbs instead of containing them, lure out the commanders in beastman forces.

[Luvbunny]

This is a great idea, and would make it very convenient. SE does not have to warp you directly in the BCNM area. All they have to is to warp you inside the zone. For example, they can warp you in the middle of the second floor map of Palborough Mines. You still have quite a walk, but instead 15 mnts, you only walk 5 mnts.

[Aeonk]

Far away? It doesn't take more than 10 or 15 minutes to get to any of the BCNM's.

Hell the hardest one is the one in Mine Shaft #2716, and that does feature a direct warp to the front door.

Just walk.

[Dreamin]

Ever wonder that people can just abuse this to do quick HELM run? If these zones can be instantly reached, yes, it'll greatly benefit a lot of players but it'll also greatly benefits RMTs who can just warp back and unload and then within a min be back at some of the best HELM spots. I'm actually okay'ed if this is something SE wants to do, it'll make many ppl's mule crafting a lot easier for sure (and benefit RMTs at the same time).

A better solution might be: instead of putting these BCNMs in these locations, why not just have most if not all the BCNMs be located within Jeuno similar to the chocobo racing (half of the challenege and fun are some of the BC/KS/KC/HKS-NMs are getting to the battlefields but yeah most are just a pain in the rear time sync).

[odihsa1]

1 vote against bcnm warps. they have made the game easy enough. go play halo or something.

also it is "time sink" not sync.
sync stands for "syncronization", it's a feature in this game
used to make everyone the same level. Level "sync".. <_<;

synchronism: the relation that exists when things occur at the same time

[Komori]

I never understood the "challenge" part to walking through a zone with two spells/two meds up that make you undetectable while you click one button to run in the same direction for ten minutes to get to the desired location. If you want challenge, ask them to make the actual battles harder, pretty much every RPG game I've played ends up giving you pretty much an instantaneous warp to any area after you get to a certain point in the game. Not just to this one or that one, but maybe I don't have a very broad spectrum.

Just be careful what you wish for when you wish for "challenge" because then you get time sinks like the whole BB thing, with the abysmal drop rates and multiple steps because you made SE believe that's exactly what you want.

[Olor]

Ever wonder that people can just abuse this to do quick HELM run?


lolHELM

r u kidding?

[Soranika]

Eh, I had a long winded post but it doesn't really matter at this point. No, personally do not support direct warping to BCNMs. It can and most likely will be abused for other purposes and would be made impossible to actually work like Assault warping. (going directly to staging points but unable to leave them, except for a get around at nyzul)

Just keep this in mind, as easy as it is to get around now, the time it would have taken to travel to BCNMs have mostly been DRASTICALLY reduced by all the other means of transportation that under mind travel by chocobo, airship, and even out post warping.

Also, lol at real life and I'm a casual player excuse.

[Arcon]

1 vote against bcnm warps. they have made the game easy enough. go play halo or something.

Yes, the great challenge of walking. Not all of us learn that when we're a few months old. Some, apparently, have even trouble with it as grownups (assuming this guy is a grownup, although not much to support that assumption atm).


sync stands for "syncronization", it's a feature in this game

If you correct someone on their spelling, do it right. It's synchronization.

The RL card, as little as I like to use it, is relevant though. Time sinks are the thing that keeps me and many people I know off this game the most. The sole challenge of this game should lie in exploring and fighting, not repetition. Getting through Beaucedine Glacier to Xarcabard and then to Castle Zvahl in the past was an actual challenge, learning how to get around, avoiding/fighting mobs, etc. However, I don't wanna have to do that every time I go there, because after a while it's no challenge anymore. I know to look out for true sight mobs and Amphipteres, I know where they are. After a while it stops being a challenge and starts being annoying. And SE obviously agrees with me, hence the warps to those zones after you've been there once. Same with OP warps, Horst warps, even Chocobos and Airships, hell even warp items like Tidal Talisman or teleport earrings, or even teleports themselves. All of those need something before you can use them first, do a supplies quest, be in the zone before, get the teleport gate crystal, etc. After you do that, you can get there easily. And it should be the same with this. Because there's absolutely no challenge in running for half an hour through Palborough Mines or Yughott Grotto, it's just annoying.

[Rie]

Most of them aren't that bad to get to, once you know your way.

If there was to be a direct teleport, maybe a quest where you have to sacrifice an orb per teleport quest(different orbs required for different BCNM locations) would make people think twice about which ones they really don't want to run to. The only one I would give up an orb for is likely Fei'Yin.

[Komori]

If auto-warps are so bad, I think they should take out abyssea warps and voidwatch because all of them seem to be in places easily reached already by OP or gaining a teleport from a WHM. Since everyone uses that reason for the BCNMs; make me able to sit in Jeuno and port people around all day and make a buttload of money, I like shiny things. I can live without it, but I surely don't do BCNMs, despite wanting to because I don't feel like wasting tabs and then OPing to San d'Oria and then using a charge on my chocobo whistle to then run another thirty minutes through a dinky cave for a poor chance at what I wanted in the first place, maybe if the drop rate was higher but right now; lolno.

[Rie]

If you spend 30mins getting to any of them, you're doing it wrong. Outside of Fei'Yin. I still get lost in Beauc. Glacier.

[Arcon]

If you spend 30mins getting to any of them, you're doing it wrong. Outside of Fei'Yin. I still get lost in Beauc. Glacier.

If you get lost in Beaucedine Glacier you're doing it wrong.

[Komori]

You can't make it through Beaudicine, when the path is pretty clear unless you have fuzzy vision. But you say something against me? Lol.

[Rie]

I wasn't entirely serious, it's my least favourite zone to navigate but I don't actually GET LOST. I'll take a wrong turn every now and then when not looking at the map.

I'm just saying, if you utilize movement speed items (sprinters shoes), JA's/gear, it doesn't take that long to get to, and 30mins is an extreme. I know not everyone has movement speed gear, but a pair of sprinter's shoes aren't too hard to get and will speed up any journey.

[Komori]

I shouldn't have to make room in my inventory for multiple movement speed items to get to a battlefield with terrible drop rates in less than twenty-thirty minutes either.

[Rie]

I'd assume any gear you have which grants movement speed+, you'd be wasting inventory/satchel space on already. 1 extra slot for a pair of sprinters shoes which can be used and then shoved back in satchel isn't a big deal to me personally.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Level a brd mule.

[Kristal]

Technically, abyssea has no effect on our world IIRC. We could have just done diddly squat and let them all die and we could just jump into maws to warm up to all the dead bodies.

Except dead people won't sell us empyrean armor or brews... Also, Abyssea has a major impact on Vana'diel.. literally. If Shinryu wasn't stopped, Abyssea's dimension would come crashing into Vana'diel. (Which makes me wonder.. if Lilith succeeded to wipe 'our' Vana'diel off the timeline, who would be left to fight the voidwalkers in Abyssea and Vana'diel?)

[Ladycandygem]

If you spend 30mins getting to any of them, you're doing it wrong.

It shouldn't take you more than 10 minutes to get to any BCNM. But never underestimate how long it takes other people in your group to get there. Somehow someone always seems to take forever. They don't have the nearest OP warp, or don't have a map of the zone and get lost, or get half way there and realise they forgot their orb.

I've even had a Voidwatch fight - where you can get a warp straight to the zone - where one person took 25 minutes longer to get to the fight than the first people to arrive. They didn't go AFK or anything - I don't know how it is possible.

The other thing I hate is where anyone in the BCNM when the chest is opened gets taken to a different area, and has a long run to get back. For example, having to run across half of Sarutabaruta, and then through Giddeus. What is the point of that?

[Rie]

I agree the exit locations are dumb. We usually have a BLM stay behind with the person opening the box, and everyone else exits. You can escape to directly outside Giddeus again, instead of having to run the whole way, you just have to redo the Giddeus part of the leg. Still kinda sucks but it does cut down travelling time somewhat. It gives people time to rest mp/unweaken (not so much an issue anymore) I guess. Yughott Grotto exit is a lot more forgiving than both Giddeus and Palborough though.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Test Server - Yes, Real server - No.

[Rie]

I've even had a Voidwatch fight - where you can get a warp straight to the zone - where one person took 25 minutes longer to get to the fight than the first people to arrive. They didn't go AFK or anything - I don't know how it is possible.


Sorry to derail a little, but I suspect these are the same people who took the boat to Nashmau with Einherjar start time 5mins away.

[Sparthos]

There is no reason you shouldnt be able to warp directly to the BCNM arenas if you've been there before and all BCNMs should exit you back at the start.

You're a sadist if you think walking to the arenas accomplishes anything.

[Aeonk]

There is no reason you shouldnt be able to warp directly to the BCNM arenas if you've been there before and all BCNMs should exit you back at the start.

You're a sadist if you think walking to the arenas accomplishes anything.

The Dev's have better things to worry about than expediting player laziness.

If you're too lazy to walk to the BCNM, you're probably too lazy to do them in the first place.

[svengalis]

The Dev's have better things to worry about than expediting player laziness.

If you're too lazy to walk to the BCNM, you're probably too lazy to do them in the first place.

You mean like updating chocobo racing a event that NOBODY does? Okay bro I'm with you there.

[Aeonk]

You mean like updating chocobo racing a event that NOBODY does? Okay bro I'm with you there.
I didn't say that was worth updating either.

[Sparthos]

The Dev's have better things to worry about than expediting player laziness.

If you're too lazy to walk to the BCNM, you're probably too lazy to do them in the first place.

Changing the exit coordinates and creating a direct teleport to a zone is what they've been doing with every Voidwatch iteration, give me a break.

The time wasted walking back and losing 15mins after every BCNM has nothing to do with desire to do the actual battles. Some BCNM walkarounds are longer than the actual battlefields.

[Soranika]

You mean like updating chocobo racing a event that NOBODY does? Okay bro I'm with you there.
Yet there's those that complain about lack of content and not doing the content that exist. =\ Only the Japanese players and a few western FF enthusiast actually care to explore what content exist in the game instead of bitching about it cause it isn't "interesting" enough or "rewarding". Granted though, it's how you personally feel about it, and personal feelings and opinions don't always match.

You want to know what the number one killer of BCNMs? It sure isn't the time it takes to travel there. It's the fact that many players don't even know anything about BCNMs that they can do. And the players that do? The excuse is 9/10 the same; "I don't have inventory space for lv.X0 gear."

Like I stated before, thanks to additional ways to get around the continents of Vana'diel, travel time has been drastically reduced. Direct warping will not make BCNMs more attractive. It'll only make it easier for people to get to the BCNMs like KSNMs 99 that people are already going in LARGE groups with MULTIPLE orbs. Or certain BCNMs for items people ARE willing to travel for. Forget the RMT excuse, you simply want to warp there to abuse it.

Oh right, but even when it's there, after the abuse is done, some of you will the first to complain about being bored in Jeuno cause you exhausted your current means of entertainment in less than a weeks time and wonder why you even still play, if you aren't even doing that already.

[Alhanelem]

They should just add a universal NPC in the mog house that lets you pick anything in the game from a list and jump striaght there. Let's add in some bot allies so you don't have to waste time finding people to party with. Then, let's get rid of the Online part and remove all that nasty lag. Then, let's make it so everything in the game can be done from the mog house without even having to leave it. Then we can go ahead and delete all the other areas since there's no longer any reason to go through them anymore.

[Sparthos]

They should just add a universal NPC in the mog house that lets you pick anything in the game from a list and jump striaght there. Let's add in some bot allies so you don't have to waste time finding people to party with. Then, let's get rid of the Online part and remove all that nasty lag. Then, let's make it so everything in the game can be done from the mog house without even having to leave it. Then we can go ahead and delete all the other areas since there's no longer any reason to go through them anymore.

Nice try but asking for convenient warps isnt equal to teleporting wherever you want.

Having to spend 15mins walking around Giddeus cause Balga's Dais has a dumb exit is bad design, period.

[odihsa1]

Yes, the great challenge of walking. Not all of us learn that when we're a few months old. Some, apparently, have even trouble with it as grownups (assuming this guy is a grownup, although not much to support that assumption atm).



If you correct someone on their spelling, do it right. It's synchronization.

The RL card, as little as I like to use it, is relevant though. Time sinks are the thing that keeps me and many people I know off this game the most. The sole challenge of this game should lie in exploring and fighting, not repetition. Getting through Beaucedine Glacier to Xarcabard and then to Castle Zvahl in the past was an actual challenge, learning how to get around, avoiding/fighting mobs, etc. However, I don't wanna have to do that every time I go there, because after a while it's no challenge anymore. I know to look out for true sight mobs and Amphipteres, I know where they are. After a while it stops being a challenge and starts being annoying. And SE obviously agrees with me, hence the warps to those zones after you've been there once. Same with OP warps, Horst warps, even Chocobos and Airships, hell even warp items like Tidal Talisman or teleport earrings, or even teleports themselves. All of those need something before you can use them first, do a supplies quest, be in the zone before, get the teleport gate crystal, etc. After you do that, you can get there easily. And it should be the same with this. Because there's absolutely no challenge in running for half an hour through Palborough Mines or Yughott Grotto, it's just annoying.
Well I didn't make any direct fag attacks on a person, they have made the game a lot simpler, And as old as it is and as many improvements bound to be made I Wouldn't personally mind or be surprised by a BCNM instant warp feature. But I do believe it is unnecessary.

Secondly, I didn't correct anyone on spelling. I corrected a few people on here in their use of the ENTIRELY WRONG WORD. not that that it would matter much? But it's good for people to learn. I can't make an offhanded rhetorical comment without a weird snarky criticism from somebody it seems ,

?to help people past just knowing how to walk is such a bad thing i guess? since I guess that's where it ends. ........Really?


yet you make a strong point , on the repetition. That I can agree with.
but no matter what they'll be a repetitive in this game like it or not, mog sacking, walking or taking a warp to get the same set of items and so forth, and the battles? well those get repetative too no matter what, it isn't just in what you have listed here either. and also no need to indirectly insult intelligence of another real person you don't know by saying they never learned to walk either.

and if i was you i guess id be a jack ass and make it a snarky personal attack towards you at this point in the post now then wouldn't I?

[Arcon]

and if i was you i guess id be a jack ass and make it a snarky personal attack towards you at this point in the post now then wouldn't I?

Yeah, sounds like something I'd do.

[Alhanelem]

Nice try but asking for convenient warps isnt equal to teleporting wherever you want. Actually, yeah it is. It's a slippery slope where every we get more convenient warps, people inevitably ask for even more convenient ones.

What's the point in having all the areas in between if we never need to travel through any of them?

[Soranika]

Actually, yeah it is. It's a slippery slope where every we get more convenient warps, people inevitably ask for even more convenient ones.

What's the point in having all the areas in between if we never need to travel through any of them?
Like people aren't already asking for more?

Able to warp to Abyssea Warps and use confluxes within. But it's not enough. So we have Voidwatch warps, which makes nearly all forms of previous travel and warping redundant.

I'm getting really sick of seeing all these threads around asking for for easier/direct warping that eliminates traveling and exploration. Lemme tell you, I did a BCNM20 (or was it 30, can't remember now) with a friend and one other random person who wanted tag along and he didn't even know the way through Giddeus. Drove my friend nuts too cause apparently he was speed hacking, whatever that is.

[Zumi]

Yes a warp npc would be good. Everything in FFXI has a teleport npc these days so why not seal fights.

[FrankReynolds]

Actually, yeah it is. It's a slippery slope where every we get more convenient warps, people inevitably ask for even more convenient ones.

What's the point in having all the areas in between if we never need to travel through any of them?

They could put stuff in those zones if they want us to use them. Otherwise, it would be a lot cheaper for the devs and players alike if they just put in a treadmill that you have to walk on for 20 minutes instead. Why design a whole zone just to make people annoyed at walking?

These are level 15ish zones BTW, its not like we are sneaking past true sight mobs to get to balga's. Warping there is not gonna hurt anyone.

[svengalis]

Actually, yeah it is. It's a slippery slope where every we get more convenient warps, people inevitably ask for even more convenient ones.

What's the point in having all the areas in between if we never need to travel through any of them?

You have played FF XIV right?

[Komori]

Yeah, doesn't FFXIV have camps darted around everywhere, so at any point; anywhere you can teleport to any of their outposts and the major cities you've visited?

[Soranika]

Yeah, doesn't FFXIV have camps darted around everywhere, so at any point; anywhere you can teleport to any of their outposts and the major cities you've visited?
That sounds mighty similar... to... FFXI? >.> Wait, I don't understand!

[Komori]

Except, in absolutely every area of FFXIV, there is at least one outpost, so you have a warp to any locaton and anything is a five minute walk. Which is all we're asking for with BCNMs, except for BCNMonry it's taboo?

[Alhanelem]

Seriously. We don't need teleports to every little thing in the game. There's more than enough ways to get around as it is. IMO if smelling the roses as you run by isn't appealing to you anymore, then you're playing the wrong game.

As I said before, we may as well not have all of these hundreds of areas if we never have to pass through them.


Which is all we're asking for with BCNMs, except for BCNMonry it's taboo? People aren't asking for a "5 minute walk." They're asking to be teleported straight to the BC.

And as far as FFXIV, the difference there is you can teleport to any aetheryte crystal AT ANY TIME except when you have enmity on something. you don't talk to an NPC to do it, it's as if every job has teleport spells. Still, you have to do a little walking to get to places. Nothing can teleport you to the precise spot of a quest or battle.

[Komori]

And when exiting the BCNM it's another 5-15 minutes unless you feel like wasting a Nexus Cape.

[Alhanelem]

I don't know of any BC area where it takes more than 5 minutes to circle around to re-enter (but really, the BC areas should at least have a device that takes you back to the entrance or a path, to facilitate repeated attempts... that I don't think takes anything too far.)

In general, one-way paths stink.

[Arcon]

IMO [..]

IMO you're wrong. Bringt it.

[Alhanelem]

IMO you're wrong. Bringt it.You can't spell 'bring' so your argument is invalid.

[Rie]

Giddeus was brought up, where it puts you in Sarutabaruta when you exit the BCNM area. Like I said earlier, when we do KS99's, we make sure a BLM stays behind to escape, which puts you at the Giddeus entrance again. Without that, it would take a bit longer than 5 minutes. An option to be taken to the entry point after the BCNM is completed would be nice, but I still don't think direct warps to the arena's are needed.

[Arcon]

You can't spell 'bring' so your argument is invalid.

What argument? You can't read, so you don't belong on forums. Also, your face.

[Alhanelem]

What argument? You can't read, so you don't belong on forums. Also, your face.
I can read. You can barely even produce a readable post. Blacklisted, next.

[FrankReynolds]

I don't know of any BC area where it takes more than 5 minutes to circle around to re-enter (but really, the BC areas should at least have a device that takes you back to the entrance or a path, to facilitate repeated attempts... that I don't think takes anything too far.)

In general, one-way paths stink.

Is this thread about walking in and out of the BC? I thought it was about getting there. At any rate, Smelling the flowers is fine when they are fresh and fragrant, and its your day off. The flowers were talking about are dungeons that we have been through a million times, and they haven't grown anything new. You can walk to work if you want. I prefer the freeway.

If it's your opinion that people should walk everywhere, you are free to do it. There are no mandatory warp NPC's that I am aware of. If you think that everyone should have to walk just because you like to smell the flowers, well...

Wouldn't it be easier to just take a screen shot that you could look at any time? The rest of us wanna fight monsters.

[Alhanelem]

Is this thread about walking in and out of the BC? I thought it was about getting there.The thread isn't "about" this per se, but it was a response to an erroneous statement made by someone.

I have no problem with walking to a BC area. I don't think we need teleports to them all. But, as an aside, the time wasted when groups want to make repeated attempts at a fight is a lot more needless and silly and could be addressed.


If it's your opinion that people should walk everywhere, you are free to do it.My opinion is that everyone should have to walk there, not that everyone else can teleport there while I walk.


The rest of us wanna fight monsters. Passing through the environment is part of the experience. There are already plenty of reasonable shortcuts all over the game world. We don't need 100 more teleports to every exact destination everyone could consider going to. Otherwise, there's no point to the vast majority of the game world existing.

[FrankReynolds]

we don't "need" to warp anywhere. We don't "need" to play games at all. Your opinion that everyone should take long tedious walks because you think that they should have to waste a certain amount of time in order to justify the existence of maps that have no other purpose is pretty much selfish.

The reason for the zones existing is for people to kill monsters for exp, farm, quest, missions etc.. If the only reason a zone exists is to make people waste time on the way to a BCNM, then it is waste of a zone. But that is not the case. You just want to walk everywhere out of a sense of nostalgia for the good ol' days when there wasn't much to do, but it still took forever to do it.

[Alhanelem]

certain amount of time in order to justify the existence of maps that have no other purpose is pretty much selfish. That's another problem of its own. They should have other (meaningful) purposes. But again, it's a highly probable slippery slope (even though it is one and its not that strong on its own), you demaind to teleport to this place and that place, eventually you'll want a teleport to any point of your choosing within any area- at which point all areas could be removed, and we could all do everything within the span of a single area. Even in other more modern MMOs, you still can't just teleport anywhere in the blink of an eye. Traveling is part of the game. Deal with it. There are plenty of shortcuts, teleports, and warps already and plenty of shortcuts to reaching most places.

It really doesn't take THAT long, and people don't do BCNMs so constantly that it's a major problem.


. But that is not the case. You just want to walk everywhere out of a sense of nostalgia for the good ol' days when there wasn't much to do, but it still took forever to do it.This isn't about nostalgia and the "good ol days." This is about laziness. Cmon, why can't I access the auction house while I'm in The Monastic Cavern? Why can't I warp to <pos> in <zone> where the <monster> are? I WANT IT NOW DAMMIT!.

[scaevola]

They definitely should add this. That way RMT can get to bcnms easier so that they can flood the market with gil items again. Also, they should add a npc to warp you to where NMs pop. But not at anytime. Only right before its about to pop. Lord knows the run to Khim is dangerous. Also since we are letting laziness from real life transcend over into video games, I would like all fight mechanics to be done automatically as chances are high I'm going to win the battle anyways. I won't be as mad when nothing drops if i have to do 0 work.

Will people please stop pretending enough people still play FFXI to support an RMT industry, much less an RMT industry large enough to actually care about?

Christ.

[Zumi]

They definitely should add this. That way RMT can get to bcnms easier so that they can flood the market with gil items again. Also, they should add a npc to warp you to where NMs pop. But not at anytime. Only right before its about to pop. Lord knows the run to Khim is dangerous. Also since we are letting laziness from real life transcend over into video games, I would like all fight mechanics to be done automatically as chances are high I'm going to win the battle anyways. I won't be as mad when nothing drops if i have to do 0 work.

The RMT are all in the Fear Dearg camp in Abyssea - Altepa I am guessing on every server selling FC leech spots for 500k for 5 hours or 800k for 8 hours. They could care less about bcnms lol

Pro tip if you go there yourself and start killing Fear Dearg a bunch when there are trying to FC for their customers they will pay you like 100k to leave them alone.

[Alhanelem]

Yes, this is off topic, but why are you so sure that everyone selling leech spots is an RMT?

[Ladycandygem]

Passing through the environment is part of the experience. There are already plenty of reasonable shortcuts all over the game world. We don't need 100 more teleports to every exact destination everyone could consider going to. Otherwise, there's no point to the vast majority of the game world existing.

If I ever want to look at the environment and go for long walks, I could do that at any time. If I want to do a BCNM, I want to do a BCNM. I don't want to spend time running past the same rocks again, I want to enter the battlefield and kill the monster. What is so bad about that?

I'd rather spend my time in game doing the things I want to do, rather than spending it traveling or waiting for slower people to get to the zone.

[Alhanelem]

I don't want to spend time running past the same rocks again, I want to enter the battlefield and kill the monster. What is so bad about that?What is so bad about walking there? If it is such a displeasureable experience, that just connecting one place to another is such an ordeal for you, it seems to me like too much fun has been sucked out of the game for you at that point. And if the level of tedium gets to that point for me, I'd almost certainly be moving on to another game at that point.

Again: If we eliminate all travelling, then we may as well just eliminate all areas. There's no reason for them to exist if you never have to go through them. There's convenience, then there's easy buttoning. This is easy buttoning. There's such a thing as too much convenience.

Let's make all the teleport spells all jobs, level 1, no MP cost. That would be really convenient. Let's make it so when you enter any area, there's an NPC right at the entrance that can teleport you to any point of interest in the area. Any ???, any NPC, any other zone line. That would be really convenient.
... If that sounds extreme, well that's essentially what you're asking for in this thread. If it doesn't sound extreme, then gosh dang, I don't mean to offend but you're lazy.

[Komori]

You make it seem like BCNM warps alone will condemn the rest of the game.

Like people don't already still have to run to various other places, I'm kind of worried for you that you seem to care for pixels so much that it upsets you when they are ignored. But they wouldn't be anymore ignored than they are now; will it kill me to walk through a zone, no. But alot of the times when I'm sitting in Port Jeuno; trying to find something that peaks my interest but isn't too much of a hassle for my current mood. I COULD have done a BCNM, but when your in a half-ass mood then you don't want to warp around and then run for another 5-15 minutes.

But not everyone will start doing BCNMs just because they're more accessible, people say it should be a requirement that you've already gone there; maybe even doing a quest to be able to warp there. That's work to be able to do something most games have in them. Most games let you teleport to each battlefield and you have to run anywhere besides a battlefield; which is pretty much all we're asking here, and what we already have elsewhere.

But I guess you; if you could would remove Chocobos, Teleport and Warp Scrolls too right? Confluxes, Horst and all of his compansions and anything remotely close to making travel easier on a player who has little time.

[Ladycandygem]

What is so bad about walking there? If it is such a displeasureable experience, that just connecting one place to another is such an ordeal for you, it seems to me like too much fun has been sucked out of the game for you at that point. And if the level of tedium gets to that point for me, I'd almost certainly be moving on to another game at that point.

There are fun parts to the game, but unfortunately for BCNMs to get to the fun part you have to run for 15 minutes. I want the fun parts without the tedium. Is that too much to ask for in a game? And generally I don't do BCNMs because of this tedium.


There's convenience, then there's easy buttoning. This is easy buttoning. There's such a thing as too much convenience.

There is a difference between easy and convenient. If I was asking that every fight be winnable in one spell, that would be too easy. Nobody is asking for that, and I am all for challenging fights. Running 15 minutes to get to a fight is not hard, just annoying.


Let's make all the teleport spells all jobs, level 1, no MP cost. That would be really convenient. Let's make it so when you enter any area, there's an NPC right at the entrance that can teleport you to any point of interest in the area. Any ???, any NPC, any other zone line. That would be really convenient.
... If that sounds extreme, well that's essentially what you're asking for in this thread. If it doesn't sound extreme, then gosh dang, I don't mean to offend but you're lazy.

Would it be so terrible if this did happen? Obviously you'd have to have been to an area before, so you can't just suddenly teleport somewhere you'd never been, but would it really break the game?

Games are supposed to be fun. Imagine you were playing Call of Duty but before every match you had to spend 15 minutes running to the zone. Nobody would play it. But in MMOs people have come to accept unnecessary time sinks. I don't think we should have to accept it, and we should be able to ask for improvements that will make the experience more enjoyable.

And even if they did put these teleports in, you don't have to use them. If you want a long walk to a battlefield to enjoy the scenery, you still could.

[Soranika]

Imagine you were playing Call of Duty

Ewww, no. Games like Call of Duty are about instant gratification, MMO's are not.

[Kaych]

I support the OP a 100%. Why this havent been implemeted years ago I have no idea.

The conserns about RMTs taking over the AH because of this warp-method is retarded IMO. SE shouldnt design a game around RMTs and hold back the gameexperience for many. They should find better ways to deal with RMTs instead...
In my experience people dont wanna do BCNMs and Avatar fights cos it is so far away. Some even never finish the lvl 20 avatar fights, just to be able to warp to the Cloister of Trials. The fact is that people want this and have been wanting it for years... not that you should have anything you want, but come on... you get 8 different warps inside 1 zone in abyssea >_>

Lastly, make it a challenging quest to be able to warp to the BCNM. Example: When you to have finished all the 4 cloudy orb BCNMs, you can warp to those locations if you need to do a cloudy orb BCNM. When you have finished all the sky orbs-bcnms you can warp to them if you need to do a sky orb BCNM and so on... Dont just give away the warp like the Abyssea warps, make people work for it!
And this way people will do new BCNMs, KSNMs etc because 'they wanna catch them all!'.

[Alhanelem]

You make it seem like BCNM warps alone will condemn the rest of the game.I totally admit it's a slippery slope, but it's a pretty probable one because they occasionally do make travel easier. But even after they do, people always ask for them to make it even easier.


But I guess you; if you could would remove Chocobos, Teleport and Warp Scrolls too right? Confluxes, Horst and all of his compansions and anything remotely close to making travel easier on a player who has little time. No, aboslutely not. I don't consider these to be too easy/lazy. Chocobos still have you moving through an area, and they can't go everywhere. Teleports require a certain job, have a cast time, and don't go to a wide range of places. Confluxes are limited to different spots within an area, and they have a cost. I'm not totally thrilled with them only because I think they are the cause of people suggesting we get instant teleports to everywhere else as well. People complained a lot less about stuff like this just a few years ago. The easier it gets, the easier people want it.


Most games let you teleport to each battlefieldList them? Most of the ones I've played either don't or their game world is too small for it, or their gameworld is too disjointed and requires teleports because there's no other way.
The last time I played WoW, you still had to travel to dungeons, other continents, etc. The only thing you can jump straight to are the PvP areas.
DDO, almost the entire game is situated within one big city or directly connected to it;
MapleStory has hardly any convenient travel unless you pay money for it (The game probably most in need of better travel) FFXIB has instant travel between certain fixed points, but you can't just teleport to where the battles are, you still have to do some walking.

There are BCNMs in a lot of different places. Consider how many warps are necessary. Consider the Summoner mini quests and how some people don't even use them for their intended purpose but as a means of free travel to hard to reach places. When you consider the location of the various BC areas, I think these would be abused to travel to these areas for reasons other than doing BCNMs, which is the main reason I don't like them. I suppose if you initiated the fight right at Shami and got warped into the arena itself so it couldn't be abused, it might work.

[FrankReynolds]

What slippery slope? Like building things players want into a game? Yeah. that would be terrible. RMTs aren't doing BCNMs. There is nothing to "abuse" in these areas. Warps are not easy mode. In a game where people insist that a vast portion of the population still plays on shitty PS2 graphics, looking at scenery is hardly an excuse.

[Alhanelem]

TL;DR: Yes, BCNM teleports is easy mode.


What slippery slope? Like building things players want into a game? Not everything some people want should make it into a game. It's what I call easy buttoning. People ask for something to make the game easier. They get it. Then they figure they got that, so they can ask to make the game even easier. Once all transportation easiness is provided, then they can start making the fights themselves easier and easier, until we start asking for the fights to start out beat the moment you enter them, because all that tedious monster killing takes too much time. Eventually, the game will just play itself so we don't have to.



Yes, that's ridiculous and over the top. But the point I'm trying to make is- I don't like it when most things get easy buttoned. When the game starts feeling more like work than a game, that's when it's time to move on. I don't mind some shortcuts here and there, e.g. making some of these lesser traveled areas faster to access (example: make the boat thing between zeruhn and palborough mines a two-way path), especially where imbalances exist (e.g. Horlais Peak is disproportionately more time consuming to reach compared to the other two). But I don't think we should be getting teleported straight to the BCs. At an extreme minimum, if there is a teleport you should have to use an orb and complete a battle at a given BCNM area once before you can jump there.


There is nothing to "abuse" in these areas.Yes, there is, as it makes certain places that are *supposed* to be remote much closer at hand. People already use the shiva mini-battle to get to fei'yin for other purposes instead of to actually fight shiva (whether it be low or high or the carby prep fight), which people who actually did the quest can't do- I consider that an abuse of a function for something other than what was intended. Some of the zilart mission BCs require navigating a maze or meeting certain conditions to be able to reach, being able to teleport to these would let you skip all that stuff that they intended for you to be put through- you could go there and do the mission instead of the BCNM. People say they want these for quick access to BCNM fights- even if that's all they really want, it can still be used for whatever you want to do in those places.

[Soranika]

You know what, in the mist of just running around doing random stuff and being like... not lazy and completing some Add-on missions, it dawned at me that this whole thing is completely stupid. Allow me to explain.

So far, thanks to Voidwatch, you can warp to some locations that other wise would have never been traveled too because traveling through certain areas suck. It's understandable. Now Voidwatch is going to be entering it's third chapter, but it's not the last one. What if... by some whacky chance, the third or forth chapter have Voidwatch rifts in Beastmen territory. Voidwatch officers will be obligated to warp you to the entrances of these places. Seems like a win for people wanting a faster way to BCNM locations since it does lower some travel time. ...Provided you do actually complete these voidwatch chapters to obtain the ability to warp to these areas.

[Karbuncle]

I don't know, Adding Warps to BCNM's is a Slippery slop.

Sure, first its warping to BCNMs, Next its Warping to Different Regions in the game for little to no cost (oh wait, Outpost Warps? Voidwatch Warps?)

Next thing you know GMs and RMT are having sex orgies in Whitegate with Colibri while spawning gil, ruining the economy, and Dupping Voidwatch Drops. You never know where it'll stop. Think of the Anarchy that will surely follow if we get BCNM warps.

RMT Will also surely reactivate their accounts to mass farm BCNM orbs now that they don't have to walk to the fighting areas.

So obviously this is a hideous idea.

Clearly this broom of tedium being shoved cleanly into our bowels is well worth it considering the alternatives of an Anarchist RMT and GM infested Vanadiel where Colibri Rape and Same sex marriages are allowed.







... If you haven't guessed by now I'm being completely sarcastic and have nothing but positive things to say about the OP.

[Komori]

Oh and not everyone does VW, I don't/haven't; so I don't even have the warps.

[Koren]

If the BCNMs were in areas in which there are mobs to actually fight through to get to the BCNM, I would say "No, no warping." simply because it would be akin to working towards a goal, i.e. fighting through hoards of monsters to fight and kill a boss. You know, dungeon crawling.

But let's be honest, to most of the BCNMs are nothing but low level fodder that you occasionally hit, nuke or otherwise murder along the way because the others in your group are lagging behind and it doesn't really matter if you reach the end 5 minutes early or 5 seconds early. Beyond that, all that's left is to enjoy the scenery and it's not as breathtaking the 50th time around. A lot of it wasn't breathtaking the first time around either.

Even if players are using it for a quick jump from town to the area, who really cares? They'd get there anyway. Mobs along the way are practically ambiance, they're part of the background at this point.

Just give a cost for the warp, but let it be free for people who are using it for BCNM access. Say trade an orb to the NPC and it says "Shami found another sucker for his magic rock disposal? Where you dumping that off?" returns orb and warps the player.

[FrankReynolds]

TL;DR: Yes, BCNM teleports is easy mode.
Yes, that's ridiculous and over the top. But the point I'm trying to make is- I don't like it when most things get easy buttoned. When the game starts feeling more like work than a game, that's when it's time to move on.

Why would I quit when they could just add a warp? Why would anybody quit over this? There is a difference between removing minor nuisances, and breaking the game. Only certain parts feel like work. the rest is fun. Making the game more fun and less work is a good thing no matter what derogatory term you apply to it. And BTW, easy button actually sounds positive despite what your trying to do with the term. I like easy button. That's why I play FFXI, not rugby.


Yes, there is, as it makes certain places that are *supposed* to be remote much closer at hand. People already use the shiva mini-battle to get to fei'yin for other purposes instead of to actually fight shiva (whether it be low or high or the carby prep fight), which people who actually did the quest can't do- I consider that an abuse of a function for something other than what was intended. Some of the zilart mission BCs require navigating a maze or meeting certain conditions to be able to reach, being able to teleport to these would let you skip all that stuff that they intended for you to be put through- you could go there and do the mission instead of the BCNM. People say they want these for quick access to BCNM fights- even if that's all they really want, it can still be used for whatever you want to do in those places.

This is all just silly. You don't know what they intended, nor do you have authority to say. You speak a lot as if you built the game. You didn't. There is no maze. Everyone has been there a thousand times. the graphics in these areas are pretty crappy. The mobs are low level and of no concern for anyone going to the BCNM. When they created this stuff, there was a need to create artificial difficulty in order to keep the content from being over done. They have added massive amounts of content since then, and no longer have that need.

[Eric]

When the game starts feeling more like work than a game, that's when it's time to move on.

You DO realize, that walking 15 minutes to a BCNM is the work, while the actual battle is the "fun", right? You sound like you're a little confused, sir.


Some of the zilart mission BCs require navigating a maze or meeting certain conditions to be able to reach, being able to teleport to these would let you skip all that stuff that they intended for you to be put through- you could go there and do the mission instead of the BCNM.Okay, then just make it a requirement that you must have already visited the BCNM at least once before you can warp there. That's how every single warp that already exists in the game works. Problem solved. People still have to "solve the maze."

I actually found it quite funny that this was one of the points you were trying to make, because it doesn't matter anyways. A majority of people already use the wikis(you know, like ffxiclopedia and gamerescape) to avoid having to do any of the brainwork themselves.



This is all just silly. You don't know what they intended, nor do you have authority to say. You speak a lot as if you built the game. You didn't.
Don't mind him. This seems to be a recurring theme with him.

Alhanelem seems to have some secret insight as to what the developers think, do, have done, and will do. (I've heard some rumors involving tinfoil hats and telepaths.)

[Soranika]

Oh and not everyone does VW, I don't/haven't; so I don't even have the warps.
Then I guess I can only assume the lot asking for these means of transportation haven't dwelved into voidwatch either to utilize the vw warping. As it stands, it covers a wide array of areas.


But that explains why no one has really commented on the abundance of easy travel via VW alone.

[Olor]

I never see anyone doing shouts for T1 VW....

[Aramaru]

I don't mean to be "that guy", but wouldn't this be abused as a way to shortcut around the world, and cheapen the actual teleport scrolls and outposts? I mean, there's the Lv20 Summoner trials, but those both require a tuning fork which consumes inventory space instead of being a key item like the normal ones, AND also forces you to play on Summoner.. and that's because it's pretty much neccessary for the job. How would you plan on restricting such a BCNM warp function so it isn't used to get around everywhere instantly?

P.S. While I am happy that there ARE quicker ways to get around in XI since I've returned to Vana'diel, I think SE has reached a happy medium with the choices. If they make too many teleports, it'll both cheapen the actual spells that do that, as well as result in the same problems Ultima Online and World of Warcraft have; absolutely nobody travelling anywhere, just instant-warping to the destination. "A million players and nobody's around.."..

[svengalis]

You know what, in the mist of just running around doing random stuff and being like... not lazy and completing some Add-on missions, it dawned at me that this whole thing is completely stupid. Allow me to explain.

So far, thanks to Voidwatch, you can warp to some locations that other wise would have never been traveled too because traveling through certain areas suck. It's understandable. Now Voidwatch is going to be entering it's third chapter, but it's not the last one. What if... by some whacky chance, the third or forth chapter have Voidwatch rifts in Beastmen territory. Voidwatch officers will be obligated to warp you to the entrances of these places. Seems like a win for people wanting a faster way to BCNM locations since it does lower some travel time. ...Provided you do actually complete these voidwatch chapters to obtain the ability to warp to these areas.

Here is the thing about VW npc's, they are just like every other warp npc in this game: they cannot warp you to areas you have not been to so I don't see what your problem is with a bcnm warp Ahlanehem if they all work the same way.

[Alhanelem]

Why would I quit when they could just add a warp?Hmm.

Step 1. Eliminate everything that feels like "work." That is, eliminate all travel times, all grinding, all tedious activities that get in the way of the parts you consider "not work."
Step 2. Play that "not work" content unobstructed for a while.
Step 3. "Not work" content starts to feel like work. Return to step 1.

The difference between work and fun is which pumps the chemicals into the reward center of your brain. But the more you do the thing that feels fun, the more of it you need to do to get that response, until it eventually doesn't work at all anymore. So eventually, instant warps to BCNMs won't be enough to keep you feeling entertained because the BCNMs themselves won't be fun.


You DO realize, that walking 15 minutes to a BCNM is the work, while the actual battle is the "fun", right? You sound like you're a little confused, sir.I'm not confused at all. Traveling and exploration is part of the experience, and can be enjoyable (or at least non-detrimental), especially early on in your game. Speaking generally and not just about these things, it's a game we're playing, not a job we're working at. If you feel like getting around and playing the game is like work, then it's clearly not that fun for you anymore and you should consider trying a new game. For me, the overall experience is what's fun. Not just the battles, not just the dialog, not just the any one piece of the game you'd care to mention. It's the whole package.


A majority of people already use the wikis(you know, like ffxiclopedia and gamerescape) to avoid having to do any of the brainwork themselves.What does using the wikis have to do with going through these areas. It's not just about "brainwork", it's about just plain work. These puzzles and encounters are specifically designed to gate your progress. Skipping past them completely undermines that gating concept. The content was specifically designed to require a certain amount of time to complete.


Don't mind him. This seems to be a recurring theme with him.

Alhanelem seems to have some secret insight as to what the developers think, do, have done, and will do. (I've heard some rumors involving tinfoil hats and telepaths.)It's not a "recurring theme" with me. I do not have any "secret insights." I simply logically conclude what is and isn't likely to happen based on what we already know and their past behavior. The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. Ask any expert in psychology or sociology.



P.S. While I am happy that there ARE quicker ways to get around in XI since I've returned to Vana'diel, I think SE has reached a happy medium with the choices. So much this, 1000 times. It's already way easier to get around than it has ever been. There are enough shortcuts and quick trips that the time required is not excessive. We really don't need a ton of extra warps.

[Soranika]

I never see anyone doing shouts for T1 VW....

Move to Bismarck. See VW shouts fairly frequent.


Here is the thing about VW npc's, they are just like every other warp npc in this game: they cannot warp you to areas you have not been to so I don't see what your problem is with a bcnm warp Ahlanehem if they all work the same way.
Really, I didn't know that. But I have a crazy ideal.... if you can't be warped to a place you haven't visited yet.... you could, I dunno, go to it! Why should anyway, say, the VW warp to Ifrit's Cauldron if they've never even bothered to get an airship pass to Kazham. Which odd considering you have to go to norg to even unlock it... STILL.

You're not basically suggesting people should be warped directly to BCNMs on the premise of avoiding traveling through areas to get there, but even to avoid travel period. Essentially, you'd like it to work like mini-tuning forks for SMN, who have the ability to warp directly to cloisters for the intended purpose of obtaining avatars at level 20 at minimum fame requirement. Cause you know, it was unfair to the job to get high fame and traveling at low levels as a smn through VERY dangerous areas to obtain the the single most important thing to the job. Of course some of us abuse that for later purposes by not using it as intended but that's a different story.

With that in mind, now I really don't support direct BCNM warps on the assumption that it should available for everyone, regardless of even traveling through the area prior.

I'm happy FFXI have gradually changed but it's moving to the point of just handing stuff over. Oh right.... your argument to justify it's not "handing" stuff over is the abysmal drop rates, it's still bordering instant gratification and taking the feeling of actual achievement and perception of worth out of the game.

[Kuvo]

Call me old fashioned but I like the travel aspect to BCNMs. To me it feels more like a mission and adventure. I love runing to the avatar fights too (eventhough i can warp there by the mini tuning fork) it again makes things feel more fun and exciting that i'm on my way to kill the Ice goddess or the devil god of fire and so on. Anyway I vote to NOT make bcnm or avatar fights warpable.

[FrankReynolds]

Hmm.



When these BCNMs were released, they had some of the best gear /items in the game. They no longer have that. The work / reward ratio is no longer in balance. Shortening the travel to them would correct that to some degree. Provisions can be made to ensure that the warps are not abused IE. only allowing people one teleport per orb purchased from shami or w/e.

Your burning desire to tell people they can't have improvements to the game is disturbing at best.

[Alhanelem]

When these BCNMs were released, they had some of the best gear /items in the game. They no longer have that. The work / reward ratio is no longer in balance. Shortening the travel to them would correct that to some degree.If this is (part of) the issue, then I would propose making better BCNMs in lieu of making them easier to access.


Your burning desire to tell people they can't have improvements to the game is disturbing at best. I have no such desire. But the devs have limited development time and I would rather it be spent on something more valuable.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I would rather it be spent on something more valuable.This will never happen and you know it.

[Unleashhell]

i read most of the topic but I'm a little short on time atm to finish the last couple. Anyway I think they should exit people from the BCNM right at the burning circle. I never understood the whole running around bit. its just a waste of time imo to wait on people. Granted some are close to the burning circle but like someone said why run across Sarutabaruta or even have to run back through Giddeus. just have the exit for everyone right at the Burning circle. Also as far as RMT are concerned they are limited to how many seals they have just like the rest of us.

[Alhanelem]

i read most of the topic but I'm a little short on time atm to finish the last couple. Anyway I think they should exit people from the BCNM right at the burning circle.This much I agree with.

[Anathiel]

I would love a warp to bc npc. If not directly from the city, then at least right inside the zone the bc is in. And I can't believe how some people will nay say anything. Its a great idea that makes bc's way more accessible and I couldn't see why people wouldn't be behind it, except for they immediately disagree with anything on the forums. Which seems to be the case.

[Alhanelem]

Not everything that would be great has to or should be implemented. Best example:

It would be great if they implemented the "Give me 100,000,000 gil" command in your moghouse on the live servers, as well as the future invincibility command. But nobody asks for that. If everyone had unlimited money, then money would be meaningless. Thus, we shouldn't get it.

I and others in this thread do not "immediately disagree with everything we see."
see this thread (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/17378-Einherjar-Limbus-Nyzul-Isle-Salvage-No-More-Proc-Systems%21%21) for sample proof

We've agreed on plenty of things. Just not this one.

[FrankReynolds]

They should make a KI that is consumed as soon as you enter a BC area. That way you lose it when he warps you, and you can't walk there to save it for later. No chance to abuse it. Just have shami issue it once per orb purchase, and not allow you to have more than 1 ki at a time.

[Eric]

This much I agree with.

Running around the BCNM is part of the overall experience. I enjoy it. It's also work. Stop asking for an easy button. Jeez.

[Arcon]

Running around the BCNM is part of the overall experience. I enjoy it. It's also work. Stop asking for an easy button. Jeez.

He just wants the game handed to him on a silver platter. People like him make everything easy not worth playing anymore.

[Laraul]

Running around the BCNM is part of the overall experience. I enjoy it. It's also work. Stop asking for an easy button. Jeez.

Hey you can always walk if you want regardless... the rest of us are really tired of it...

[FrankReynolds]

Hey you can always walk if you want regardless... the rest of us are really tired of it...

He was being facetious.