Refresh III

[tyrantsyn]

Seems like there's a lot of scaling for spells these days. So the question I'd like to pose to the RDM community today is "Could we use a new tier of Refresh?"

Seems like something that could be unnecessary. But at same time would have tons of utility.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I'm fine with getting Refresh III, only SE would deem it too powerful.

[cidbahamut]

Seems like something that could be unnecessary.
Pretty much this. MP isn't the issue it once was.

[Morgantisthedon]

Could be useful. I agree mp isnt as much a issue as it was before. Still +1 etc a tick or something could sway the tide of the battle. (although not by much if ever )

[Economizer]

"Could we use a new tier of Refresh?"

Why does Red Mage need a new tier? Make it based on skill!

As for a suggested formula for Refresh II to make it scale, I wrote up a bit of math.

You can get a current cap of about 376 points with an additional 70 point with a perfect gear set for Red Mage, and 16 points for merits. Assuming an additional seven points per level up to 99, you'd get 404, meaning 420+70 points in perfect gear for 490. However 15 of those points come from the pants so 475 would also be the cap assuming that 15 points means less then +1 refresh.

If the goal was just to keep Refresh II at the current 6MP/tic at 82, the level you get it at, then at 82, you have about 293 Enhancing Magic at cap. A good way to work with this would be having it work like the gain spells, and have skill have no effect below 300. That gives 175-190 relevant skill points to base the formula on, if keeping a base of 6MP/tic. One way to do this would be to have 30 skill per point increase, meaning 490 skill, or 475 skill with the AF3+2 pants would give 12MP/tic.

That said, it could just be made purely skill based - at the same 30 points per point increase this would be a max of 16MP/tic but with no base (but the current amount would be reached at a measly 180 skill). You could also have it purely skill based with a target of 12MP/tic with 40 skill per point increase.

The three previously suggested formulas with maximums assuming 99 cap having no new enhancing gear (unlikely) and a 7 skill per level increase (pretty likely):

12MP/tic target with 6MP/tic base: (Skill - 300) / 30 = X, 6 + X MP/tic
12MP/tic target with no base: Skill / 40 = X, X MP/tic
16MP/tic target with no base: Skill / 30 = X, X MP/tic

[Swords]

Because SE seems to be awfully touchy about messing with the formulas of magic spells, although a good skill based revamp would probably help all the mages in the long run.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Pretty much this. MP isn't the issue it once was.There's life outside of abyssea.

[Crimson_Slasher]

I dont feel this is needed either, id use the hell out of it if i got it though, but as it stands, outside abyssea, with relic head or refresh hairpin, emp+2 body, refresh subligar, serpentes, refresh 2 (with emp+2 pants bonus) and moonshade augment, we have a potential for 13/tic just like that. And atop that, you can still recieve outside forms of refresh (cor rolls, brd songs, diabolos favor) so i dont see it needed in party, and in solo use id be really spamming magic to use that kinda refresh up, though some of that wouldnt be used outside an idle set.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Pretty much this. MP isn't the issue it once was.

No reason for it not to be added then.

[cidbahamut]

There's life outside of abyssea.
Yes, and it isn't an issue there either. Good job making asinine assumptions there chief.

[Greatguardian]

Refresh 3 just means I can nuke more often between Converts while solo'ing on RDM. I'm down for that.

[Kristal]

More Enhances "Refresh" effect gear is more likely.
Or perhaps some kind of Augments "Refresh II" effect that increases Refresh II to give more MP/tick if MP is lower.

[Economizer]

Because SE seems to be awfully touchy about messing with the formulas of magic spells, although a good skill based revamp would probably help all the mages in the long run.

They've also stated there is a limited number of spells they can add. To be honest, I'd prefer if lower level spells remained relevant, and we didn't have to merit or buy another spell just because. But either way they do it would work ultimately.

[tyrantsyn]

More Enhances "Refresh" effect gear is more likely.
Or perhaps some kind of Augments "Refresh II" effect that increases Refresh II to give more MP/tick if MP is lower.

You know I would agree with you in going in that direction. But than we get something like temper out of the blue and suddenly Refresh III doesn't sound to far fetched to me. Nobody's really asking for it. So I wouldn't be surprised if it pop up.

[hideka]

I'm fine with getting Refresh III, only SE would deem it too powerful.

umm 1 bard can give technicaly a 18 tic refresh, and 21 if they sub rdm and refresh you...... so yea... i think rdm would do just fine with refresh III, i dont think SE could ever justify not giving rdm a 9 tic refresh spell.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

umm 1 bard can give technicaly a 18 tic refresh, and 21 if they sub rdm and refresh you...... so yea... i think rdm would do just fine with refresh III, i dont think SE could ever justify not giving rdm a 9 tic refresh spell.
Jobs could give 90 Refresh and they'd still justify not giving RDM a much lesser tier.

[tyrantsyn]

umm 1 bard can give technicaly a 18 tic refresh, and 21 if they sub rdm and refresh you...... so yea... i think rdm would do just fine with refresh III, i dont think SE could ever justify not giving rdm a 9 tic refresh spell.

Not a authority of other jobs and had no idea BRD could do a 18 tic refresh. Now I really don't feel bad asking for a higher tier. How about it Camate? Could you look into it for us?

[Economizer]

Now I really don't feel bad asking for a higher tier.

There are a limited amount of spells SE can include in the game with the current way it is coded, which means that a Refresh III now is one less spell you can get later! Now you can feel bad again!


Go skill based or go home, skill based suggestions for a new Refresh II formula:


The three previously suggested formulas with maximums assuming 99 cap having no new enhancing gear (unlikely) and a 7 skill per level increase (pretty likely):

12MP/tic target with 6MP/tic base: (Skill - 300) / 30 = X, 6 + X MP/tic
12MP/tic target with no base: Skill / 40 = X, X MP/tic
16MP/tic target with no base: Skill / 30 = X, X MP/tic


If you don't like these suggestions, make one of your own! If you think you can do better, maybe you can! Write the new Refresh II formula!

[ManaKing]

If there is a limit to how many spells each job can have, then we have about 30 more spells at least to catch up with BLU.

[Economizer]

If there is a limit to how many spells each job can have, then we have about 30 more spells at least to catch up with BLU.

Actually if you check the dats, you will see that FFXI is able to hold up to 4,294,967,296 spells. 4,294,966,598 of those spells are BLU spells or have been reserved for BLU. The rest are a combination of player spells, the null placeholder, and a monster spells that players can't use.

But seriously, we need a Refresh III as much as we needed Gain-STAT spells when Red Mage could have just gotten the Boost-STAT spells instead. Spell formula improvements are cheaper for your pocketbook, and easier to obtain! :(

[hideka]

yep bard gets +4 to all songs with 95 galljahorn and AF3 legs, not to mention +5 on the 99 version & legs.

so at 95,
balad = +5 refresh
ballad II = +6
ballad III= +7

with the durabala you can have 3 songs active AND have the galjahorn bonus active on all three of them.
that gives you a 18 tic refresh at 95, and a 21 tic refresh at 99. and you can even Marcato your ballad III to make your 95 ballad III's give 10 MP, and your 99's 11 MP, so the maximum ammount of refresh you can have at any given level via ballad alone at

95 : 21 Tic refresh
99: 25 tic refresh

so yea........ thats pretty intense mana regen. and not to even consider mentioning soulvoice.... idk how much it actualy ups refresh but im willing to bet its 50-100% increase.

so your looking at 31-42 Tic refreshes at 95 with soulvoice >_>

god... tired of typing lol.... NEEDS MOAR REFRESH III >:Q