More Xbox 360 options, config & more.

[Juri_Licious]

The Xbox 360 is lacking a few config options that are currently on PC. Adding these would make playing on it that much better of an experience.

Misc on PC




Misc on 360




Character Models Displayed

With this in the game, it will solve so much of the issues on the 360 with slowdown during Campaign, Besieged, Abyssea or just open fields & towns.

Other Graphical Options

Shadows
Weather
Clipping Plane
Animation Frame Rate
Footstep Effects

What I mentioned earlier for slowdown, these will help as well.

PlayOnline Viewer App

Alright, the easy stuff is out of the way, but i'm not through yet.
Another thing that would be very useful for the Xbox 360 is some form of PlayOnline viewer for digital download. With FFXI discs becoming scarce and no longer being made this is a good option to turn to.

It's pretty annoying already to have to put in the disc, when the disc itself doesn't really do anything because, you install everything to a blank section on the Xbox 360 that you normally wouldn't be able to find. Plus, the disc is only used for the PlayOnline viewer. Wouldn't it make sense to add a digital version for the playonline viewer so we aren't required to use a disc that's only really used for installs?

This can be done a few ways.

1. Games on Demand
2. Xbox 360 App (Like Rockband Store & Halo Waypoint)
3. A method I don't like but i'll suggest it anyway. Do an update for the client via an Xbox update that lets you install the playonline via as an App from your disc to your Xbox 360.

[Leonlionheart]

Homemade fix:

Buy a PC

[Juri_Licious]

Homemade fix:

Buy a PC

I'm on my PC right now.

[wildsprite]

buying a PC doesn't change that the XB360 version still needs a disc when it shouldn't need it

[Luso]

I think that the reason for the PC version having more options is that every PC is different spec-wise. The need to change certain options for better performance is needed. For the 360, since every console is the same and the system is well more than capable of running this game, there is no need to change any option you mentioned.

However, yes, it does slow down a lot when loading zones and during certain events like Campaign and Besieged. In which case, this is a design problem. I'm sure that it might alleviate the problem some if the number of models that displayed could be reduced, but I doubt that it's the system (spec-wise) itself causing it.

I think that the disc is only needed because it's to prevent people from getting the game for free in a sense from other players. It's there just to prove that you have the game and it's an unnecessary catalyst needed to boot the game. So I agree with the Games on Demand option, because even PSU is now available on it and it was the same as XI: it needed the disc to be present even though the whole game was installed in order to be playable.

[Juri_Licious]

I think that the reason for the PC version having more options is that every PC is different spec-wise. The need to change certain options for better performance is needed. For the 360, since every console is the same and the system is well more than capable of running this game, there is no need to change any option you mentioned.

However, yes, it does slow down a lot when loading zones and during certain events like Campaign and Besieged. In which case, this is a design problem. I'm sure that it might alleviate the problem some if the number of models that displayed could be reduced, but I doubt that it's the system (spec-wise) itself causing it.

I don't think it's that. I think it's because they never updated the PlayOnline viewer for Xbox 360.
Proof of this is the fact that the Xbox 360 version was able to still use Debit Cards long after they added those secure checks for Verified Visa & etc.

Those Misc things would greatly help out the Xbox 360 and isn't hard to implement as the client is nearly identical. (i've tinkered with it)

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Proof of this is the fact that the Xbox 360 version was able to still use Debit Cards long after they added those secure checks for Verified Visa & etc.

Unrelated. 3-D Secure requires access to an honest-to-God web browser, which neither the PS2 nor the Xbox 360 had, let alone one that could be run at the same time as a game.

[Juri_Licious]

Unrelated. 3-D Secure requires access to an honest-to-God web browser, which neither the PS2 nor the Xbox 360 had, let alone one that could be run at the same time as a game.

Even before the Verified by Visa thing, you could not use a debit card on the PC.

[Atomic_Skull]

Background Aspect Ratio

Being able to set your ratio on a whim would be excellent.

Exactly how would this be useful? It's not like a PC where literally any resolution is possible, FFXI on Xbox 360 knows the correct aspect ratio by the resolutions defined in the HDTV standard.

[Kaisha]

Because the 360 only supports three resolutions? 480/720/1080i&p

480p is 4:3, the other two are 16:9. If you try to force the 360 to use any other non-standard resolution via a VGA connection or what not the 360's built-in scaler will kick in and compensate.

There's zero need for an aspect ratio setting unless for some reason you're running a widescreen display that cannot do anything above 480p, to which I ask why are you gaming on a 360 in the first place.

[Luso]

When releasing games on the 360, Microsoft also has a policy set into place that any game produced for their system must be at least 720p. Like Kaisha said, sometimes the games are then up-scaled to 1080p, resulting in a better but not true version of "1080p". So, even if POL for the 360 client is outdated, to even have attempted to release FFXI on the 360, they had to apply a an HD filter to the game.

And SE has regarded the 360 version as HD in the following excerpt:

"If you are using a 1024x resolution or higher with the Windows version or using the HD mode for Xbox 360, these changes to the macro palette will be automatically switch over."

So, unless I'm mistaken, the message was referring to the use of macro pallets that would not fit in the screen if you were not using a sort of widescreen resolution. And I'm pretty sure that, again, you can't be in widescreen mode on the 360 if you're using 480p or below.

[Juri_Licious]

Dunno, seems like here it supports 16x10.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/14/xbox-360-fall-08-dashboard-update-adds-16x10-widescreen-expand/

Anyways, here is 480p on Xbox 360 and 720p

The menus seem to better, i'm not really sure if this is full 720p or not. Doesn't look that way to me. I could be wrong though, if i'm wrong, i'll edit the first post and remove the screen thing.

-edit-

Actually, I forgot we're talking about aspect ratios and not resolutions.
I'm not entirely sure that's 16x9 for game itself (not the menus).

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Because the 360 only supports three resolutions? 480/720/1080i&p

480p is 4:3, the other two are 16:9.

First off, you forgot 480i, but that's done with hardware (e.g. the SDTV/HDTV switch on your component cables) rather than in the firmware.

Secondly, if you choose 480p in the firmware, you're given a second option of picking between 4:3 and 16:9. I forget if this option is also given in 480i, but I know it's there for EDTV.

Whatever the case, this is all firmware settings and inaccessible from within any games.

[Leonlionheart]

buying a PC doesn't change that the XB360 version still needs a disc when it shouldn't need it

Step 2: Play on PC
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit

[Atomic_Skull]

First off, you forgot 480i, but that's done with hardware (e.g. the SDTV/HDTV switch on your component cables) rather than in the firmware.

Secondly, if you choose 480p in the firmware, you're given a second option of picking between 4:3 and 16:9. I forget if this option is also given in 480i, but I know it's there for EDTV.

Whatever the case, this is all firmware settings and inaccessible from within any games.

Most games just assume square pixels when rendering and don't need to know the aspect ratio. 640x480, 1280x720 and 1920x1080 all have square pixels. Almost all resolutions used today do, because almost all displays in current use have discrete pixels which are square. Back in 2003 when CRTs were still in widespread use some commonly used resolutions had rectangular pixels e.g. 1280x1024 on a 4:3 display.

However FFXI's use of a defined aspect ratio probably comes from it's origin on the PS2 where 4:3 and 16:9 were both 640x480.

The additional resolutions beyond 480/720/1080 supported by the 360 aren't necessarily supported by games. What actually happens is that the game renders in 720 (few 360 games render in 1080) and then the image gets resized for the Xbox 360's output resolution, same way it works with a 720 game and 1080 output resolution.

The reason most 360 games use 720p is because it renders the screen in tiles using internal RAM on the GPU. This i much faster than using external memory, but if there are too many tiles then collating them offsets the speed advantage.

[Juri_Licious]

Step 2: Play on PC
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit

The way keep posting in this thread is as if it's PS2 limitations or something.
The limitations at hand here are the the port itself, not with the 360's hardware requirements.

I don't play on the Xbox 360 myself, (I use to) but I have friends that do and would love these miscs options that are absolutely easy to implement.

[Juri_Licious]

Removed the aspect ratio thing because these pics pretty much prove it exists on the 360 version automatically.
Amazing how clear the image is on PC compared to the 360.


Wish they used the 360 resolution like this.



The last two images quality were lowered due to size.

[Kaisha]

Wow, you got to be kidding me. They didn't even bring over the bump mapping on the 360 port?

That's making for the lighting differences and the lack of texture 'detail' in the 360 shot. I 2box on two separate machines here, one with it on, one without (stupid laptop), and you'll be surprised how different some locations can look without it.

The lighting in half the BC zones is entirely different, and in some cases, like the La'Loff Amphitheate, a different colour mood as well.


Also keep in mind your PC screencap is running at a different gamma/contrast level than your 360 shot, which is why the PC one looks a little more 'vibrant'.

[Juri_Licious]

Wow, you got to be kidding me. They didn't even bring over the bump mapping on the 360 port?

That's making for the lighting differences and the lack of texture 'detail' in the 360 shot. I 2box on two separate machines here, one with it on, one without (stupid laptop), and you'll be surprised how different some locations can look without it.

The lighting in half the BC zones is entirely different, and in some cases, like the La'Loff Amphitheate, a different colour mood as well.


Also keep in mind your PC screencap is running at a different gamma/contrast level than your 360 shot, which is why the PC one looks a little more 'vibrant'.

I didn't think about it since the 360 gets that slowdown already. It would be a nice feature though.

Also, yes I do know about the gamma levels, I was talking about how clear the image is.
One example would be to look at Ironclad Gorilla.

[Atomic_Skull]

Removed the aspect ratio thing because these pics pretty much prove it exists on the 360 version automatically.
Amazing how clear the image is on PC compared to the 360.

360


PC



Wish they used the 360 resolution like this.




The last two images quality were lowered due to size.

Menus on the 360 version are larger in 720p than on the PC version?

[Alhanelem]

I sort of wonder why the interface is restricted to a smaller area of the screen (e.g. further from the edges on the 360 version in HD mode. The whole reason for the large buffer zone at 480i/p is because old tube TVs wiould often cut off a significant portion of the edges of an image, especially in the corners. But modern TVs and monitors don't have this problem.

(Referring to some of the comparison images- i never actually played on the 360 nor do I intend to- MMOs should not be on fixed-hardware platforms)

[Kaisha]

You want a TV-safe-area regardless of resolution being outputted.

Another problem with some screens is overscan also, and you wouldn't want the interface just being tucked out of the way.

[Alhanelem]

You want a TV-safe-area regardless of resolution being outputted.

Another problem with some screens is overscan also, and you wouldn't want the interface just being tucked out of the way.
Not one TV out there capable of outputting 720p needs a "TV safe area." I haven't met a single flat panel screen that cuts off the edges of images like tube TVs used to.

[Leonlionheart]

Menus on the 360 version are larger in 720p than on the PC version?

Sacrifice gameplay for graphics

No thanks.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Not one TV out there capable of outputting 720p needs a "TV safe area." I haven't met a single flat panel screen that cuts off the edges of images like tube TVs used to.Good 'ol CRT. Sitting next to 38" right now.
If they're having problems with the image being cut off on something flat, it's not the TV's fault, it's what ever is outputting the image.

[Kimikryo]

I dont care if you have more options in misc on PC than on 360, I barely change any options on 360 that dont NEED to be changed.

But for the Launching Play Online just with Disc Problem:
Since the disk isnt "just" used to boot, but keeps spinning, the disks get "damaged" (whyever) quick. Most other games you dont have as long in you 360 as the FFXI disc. My 360 starts to say "Disc damaged or unreadable" which really annoys me like nothing else. Your Game disk is damaged on PC? You can download it, install the game, and delete it again. Your Game disk is damaged on non modded 360? Go buy a new disk, oh they dont sell it anymore where you from? Sucks to be you eh?

When logging in and out between mules btw. it sounds like the disk tray is being accessed by the game. but it is possible tha this just is a coincidence

[Alhanelem]

Good 'ol CRT. Sitting next to 38" right now.
If they're having problems with the image being cut off on something flat, it's not the TV's fault, it's what ever is outputting the image.
Tube TVs should no longer be accomodated- None by themselves can recieve current over-the-air broadcasts anymore without a converter box, and are all but obsolete in the US and probably Europe. We recently had a charity group pick up donations of random stuff- The one thing they don't accept is TVs, as tons of people have tubes they don't use anymore but nobody wants (and you usually have to pay a fee to throw them out)

Having all media (TV, movies, video games) designed around current TV standards only will accelerate that obsolescence like it should. It absolutely is the TV's fault, because it's a flaw of those TVs' designs that they can't display meaningful information too close to the edge of the screen- not a flaw of the image being put on it. No modern TV or monitor has this problem.

Also, the fact that today's panels are cheaper than tubes ever were, makes it relatively easy to keep up with the Joneses.

Effectively xbox users see less of the most useful area of the game screen than PC users do at the same resolution.

[Juri_Licious]

HDTVs don't get cut off unless you have one of those early HDTVs that are component only and are pretty much 200 pounds.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Since the disk isnt "just" used to boot, but keeps spinning, the disks get "damaged" (whyever) quick.

Unless the drive itself is faulty or the disc is extremely poorly manufactured, accessing optical media in and of itself won't damage it, no matter how long you do it. The drive motor will give out long before the disc itself.

This is a red herring, though, as if the disc was truly bad, wiping the Xbox's hard drive and reinstalling wouldn't be possible (let alone fix the problem, albeit temporarily).

[Laraul]

I sort of wonder why the interface is restricted to a smaller area of the screen (e.g. further from the edges on the 360 version in HD mode. The whole reason for the large buffer zone at 480i/p is because old tube TVs wiould often cut off a significant portion of the edges of an image, especially in the corners. But modern TVs and monitors don't have this problem.

TVs have some overscan... monitors don't. This hasn't changed. Overscan is very prevailent on sets that have a native resolution of 720p. And this includes the vast majority of TVs.

Honestly I don't mind overscan. Some say it's bad but since broadcasters and deverlopers always have to compensate for overscan I see no reason for it's immediate departure.

This is from Wikipedia...

Microsoft's Xbox game developer guidelines recommend using 85 percent of the screen width and height, or a title safe area of 7.5% per side.

[Kimikryo]

Unless the drive itself is faulty or the disc is extremely poorly manufactured, accessing optical media in and of itself won't damage it, no matter how long you do it. The drive motor will give out long before the disc itself.

This is a red herring, though, as if the disc was truly bad, wiping the Xbox's hard drive and reinstalling wouldn't be possible (let alone fix the problem, albeit temporarily).

I have to add, I started playing FFXI on a releasy 360, we all know of the problems with those disc drives back than, so maybe it was that.

Still, I'd be glad, if I wouldn't need to have my ffxi discs spinning in the drive all the while my secondary acount is with his bazaar wherever.

[Atomic_Skull]

Not one TV out there capable of outputting 720p needs a "TV safe area." I haven't met a single flat panel screen that cuts off the edges of images like tube TVs used to.

Some LCD and plasma TV's particularly 720p ones have overscan. Almost all 1080p LCD and PDP TVs have a "display entire image with no overscan" option. Almost all projection TVs regardless of resolution have overscan in the projection hardware.

Note also that almost all "720p" LCD TVs are actually using 1366x768 panels.

[JiltedValkyrie]

XI on Xbox 360 will automatically resize to 800x600 and 1024x748. I've used both before and the menu becomes incredibly smaller as if it were running the PC version which I normally use anyway in 1080p.

[Camiie]

Even before the Verified by Visa thing, you could not use a debit card on the PC.

I've never paid for FFXI with anything but a debit card since 2004.

[Alhanelem]

I've never paid for FFXI with anything but a debit card since 2004.
Same here. A debit card has always been useable (as long as it's a real debit card with the visa/mastercard logo... Bank/ATM cards with no logo are a different matter)

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I've never paid for FFXI with anything but a debit card since 2004.Then you're lucky that in 05-09 all you're money wasn't stolen.

[Camiie]

Then you're lucky that in 05-09 all you're money wasn't stolen.

If only I was that lucky with everything else!

[Greatguardian]

Plenty of people couldn't use a debit card, you might have had a special one.

I've been paying with a Visa debit for 8 years. Maybe the issue was with your bank, because SE certainly didn't have a problem accepting debit payments before VbV.

[wish12oz]

PC




PROTIP: When you log in on PC with windower, press F11 to turn off ambient lighting.

[luckyman]

Having purchased Final Fantasy for Xbox and then later the Wings of the Goddess Expansion, to my dismay both disks were ruined within a short amount of time. I then purchased it for PC since it doesn't have the same disk problems that the 360 had. Yet, I would still love it if FFXI was a download on Xbox Live's Games-on-Demand section. Since I have to share the computer with my wife and kids, having an extra playing option wouldn't be so terrible. I thought it would be fairly simple to find a 360 disk. I went to the POL website and it said both the windows and 360 version was under 10 dollars. I then click on the 360 version to find a retailer to purchase it from and 2 of those don't work. The one that does work (the Amazon link) the used disks are around 30 dollars and new imports are over 100. I was blown out of my seat. I couldn't believe it. Now that my 360 has the 250 GB hard drive, I am more than willing to download the game if it were available in that option. I don't want to throw away another 30 or more dollars on a disk that will end up as a cup holder in a month. Maybe make it a surprise to all of us 360ers for the holidays :) *hint hint

Please SE, make the Ultimate Edition or Abyssea Edition available for download on Xbox Live and no longer require a disk. Please. Please. Please.