ps2 Server must die soo we can live

[Lordscyon]

Dear Square enix It is time too STEP UP your game there is alot of NEW MMO games coming out the Market that might kill ffxi.

What i am saying is I hate too see FFXI Vanish Due too Ps2 Limitation.

Think about it this game has alot of potential too become better than what it is, due your self a favor and just Remove ps2 Servers.

A) You will bring more Customers That want too buy ffxi since you will proably make alot of new content that people will be curious too play this game.

B)Give PS2 Players(6 month NOTICE) ahead of time too upgrade there units too PC OR XBOX360 + reward those players by doing so a free ffxi game item.

C) It's 2011 they will understand.

[Greatguardian]

Most new features being released for the FFXI UI are 360/PC exclusive.

It's pretty obvious that they're content to leave PS2 players where they are and upgrade the other clients bit by bit. It's just difficult to do when the game is coded for the PS2 and then given a windows/360 wrapper.

[Juri_Licious]

I just wish they would say something regarding this for once.
I wonder how that poll turned out?

[Soranika]

PS2 server.... There's a server dedicated to PS2?

[Morgantisthedon]

The dev team stated that new areas and stuff are not limited by Ps2 so this thread is a repeat of all ps2 related stuff. I am on SE side with this if they made the product for ps2 I would stand by it regardless if you cant buy or find disks for it. I myself use 360, ps2 and pc. Plus know many people who use ps2.
Plus we dont need what system you use affliation reminds me of racial profiling ..... YOu all on 360 over here ... you all on pc over here... and you all on ps2 well u get to go to this island ... Just saying. We all play the game it is our option what we play on what conusil. If certain options are made for 360 or pc and not ps2 thats fine but trying to oust ppl because our ps2 still works or force us to quit or go somewhere is simply wrong.

[Zumi]

You realized that FFXI is structured around PS2 architecture. To improve the game SE would not only have to drop PS2 but recode a large part of the game. They said before that doing something like this would be like making a whole new game and they didn't want to do it.

[Leonlionheart]

Should drop PS2 out of principle. PS2 players are like beggars holding on to your ankle not letting you move forward.

Best way to deal with them is to kick them off!

[Atomic_Skull]

You realized that FFXI is structured around PS2 architecture. To improve the game SE would not only have to drop PS2 but recode a large part of the game. They said before that doing something like this would be like making a whole new game and they didn't want to do it.

They also said that making a PS3 version would be "too hard". Yet somehow porting FFX to the PS3 is not "too hard" despite being based on an earlier revision of the same graphics code.

I'm not so sure that the game is as tied to the PS2 as people think, most applications that use wrapper classes to work with specific platforms are fairly agnostic about what platform they're running on except for the wrapper code. I think the real problem with FFXI isn't that they're using a wrapper, it's that their wrapper is slow and inefficient. Consider that DirectX 8's fixed function pixel and vertex shaders (Shader Model 1.0) are much less powerful and flexible than the PS2's vector units. It's likely that they had to replace some of the code that used the VU's on the PS2 with software on the PC because Shader Model 1.0 wasn't able to duplicate the functionality of the PS2's VU's (FFXI does use Shader Model 1.0 for something though). A new wrapper written for DirectX 9 and Shader Model 3.0 wouldn't have that problem.

[cidbahamut]

Most new features being released for the FFXI UI are 360/PC exclusive.

It's pretty obvious that they're content to leave PS2 players where they are and upgrade the other clients bit by bit. It's just difficult to do when the game is coded for the PS2 and then given a windows/360 wrapper.

All the more reason for them to get off their asses and start the arduous process of recoding stuff now, rather than later.

[MojoJojo]

These threads, posts and the odd signature still make me chuckle. Dropping the PS2, if SE ever would do it, would accomplish very little. Some folks seem to think SE would wave some magical wand and create a whole new game if they just sever this PS2 cancer......wishful thinking. Adding a few token changes to the menu or whatever is about the only thing you'll see with or without the ps2. Even though SE loves to rehash their flagship title (Final Fantasy) I'd say there's a snowball's chance in hell they're going to totally recode this game (or half recode) for the current clients, with off chance they might snag a few new customers here and there.

Trying to get new zones (reskinned or otherwise), abilities and spells is like pulling teeth, and people are dreaming of a totally new game? It's not ps2 limitations, its dev-team limitations, which basically point towards financial limitations (from current low client base, or siphoning off for FFXIV) Atomic_Skull kinda makes it sound like SE could make the pc version much prettier without having to deal with ps2/xbox, and they haven't/won't right?

Now i have a ps2 and a laptop i run 2 characters with. If they dropped ps2 support i wouldn't bat an eye and find another way to run my 2nd character, so i'm not defending ps2 out of bias. I'm just saying this dead horse has been beaten pretty bad, and people are delusional if they think this one thing will help ffxi rise like a phoenix.....maybe i'm just pessimistic.

[Atomic_Skull]

Atomic_Skull kinda makes it sound like SE could make the pc version much prettier without having to deal with ps2/xbox, and they haven't/won't right?

If they updated the PC version to DirectX 9 then that would almost certainly carry over to the 360 version as well. Updating to DirectX 9 isn't about prettier graphics it's about eliminating glitches on modern PCs and better efficiency e.g. full shadows not slowing your system to a crawl. (although they could make it look nicer with some rendering tweaks).

If SE were to release a PS Vita version of FFXI they would have to recode the client for OpenGL because the Vita does not have DirectX (it's not a windows platform). And SE would have known this before even investigating the possibility. They must at least be willing to consider it or they would never have investigated it in the first place.

[Rhianu]

Like people have said, it isn't just support for PS2 that's holding FFXI back, it's the fact that the entire game is programed around the limitations of the PS2 infrastructure, and that infrastructure wouldn't change even if they dropped PS2 support. And recoding the engine to use a newer infrastructure would be a ridiculously expensive and time-consuming project, and it just wouldn't be worth it for them to pour that much time and money into a decade-old game.

SE is totally rebuilding FFXIV because it's still brand new and they think such a project has the potential to increase the future revenue of FFXIV. But FFXI? FFXI is too damn old. Giving FFXI a Version 2.0 facelift like the one FFXIV is getting would not substantially increase revenue from FFXI, so there's no justifiable reason for SE to do it.

[Spiritreaver]

Dear Square enix It is time too STEP UP your game there is alot of NEW MMO games coming out the Market that might kill ffxi.

What i am saying is I hate too see FFXI Vanish Due too Ps2 Limitation.

Think about it this game has alot of potential too become better than what it is, due your self a favor and just Remove ps2 Servers.

A) You will bring more Customers That want too buy ffxi since you will proably make alot of new content that people will be curious too play this game.

B)Give PS2 Players(6 month NOTICE) ahead of time too upgrade there units too PC OR XBOX360 + reward those players by doing so a free ffxi game item.

C) It's 2011 they will understand.

Maybe its the impending holiday season, or maybe its my meds kicking in, but your post reminded me of Ralphie's theme that he turned in the movie A Christmas Story.

[Dohati]

i play on ps2 and pc, but i really don't care what happens to the ps2 as long as they make more content. personally, i'd love another full-blown expansion, even if they didn't make a ps2 version of it. that would mean that ps2 players would get left out of much of what would probably be the most popular content, but they could still play the game. on that note, if dropping ps2 is what it takes to get a new expansion, please do it!

[tyrantsyn]

I'm sure even PS2 players could agree that if the content in the game could be expanded by dropping ps2 support. It would be worth wild to up grade to another system for it. But that content would have to be pretty massive.

[Spiritreaver]

First let's say that the following is an axiom: If you are posting on this forum, or even able to browse the net currently and read this post, you are able to play FFXI on a format other than PS2. I personally have FFXI installed on one of my PCs, my PS3 and my PS2.

That said, when will people get it through their heads that the following idea is unrealistic when dealing with SE and isn't not going to happen anytime soon if ever?


I'm sure even PS2 players could agree that if the content in the game could be expanded by dropping ps2 support. It would be worth wild to up grade to another system for it. But that content would have to be pretty massive.

Not picking at tyrantsyn per se, but just seeing the sentiment yet again urged me to post.

Its been said everywhere, including this thread i might add, that the PS2 is not the problem. Its the architecture of the game that is the base issue. The PS2 was first sold in '00 i think-almost 12 yrs ago now. And as FFXI was initially developed for play on both the PS2 and the PC, the guts of its program is loaded with PS2 specific code.

So all the PS2(and by extension PS3 players) suddenly disappearing form the picture achieves absolutely nothing. The game's program is still an old hybrid beast with all the same issues.

Now can SE rework a Windows compatible version of FFXI from the ground up that lacks PS2 functionality? That answer is of course they can. Will they? Anyone with common sense that has been a customer of SE in relation to FFXI for any length of time can answer that - no.

IMO the only chance of FFXI getting the full rework-job needed to actually make dropping PS2 support an option is if XIV's failure is ever fully complete and that title is scrapped. And come on guys, SE is like a dog with a bone on this issue. They are going to just keep pouring cash down that games gullet well past the bounds of insanity until it becomes something even half decent.

Now finally after yrs of ppl begging for UI updates to PC clients, SE is making small steps forword. I think it will continue this way for a while and gradually PC players(xbox guys as well) will get some convenience updates. But its not going to ever be the overwhelming changes ppl are clamoring for.

As much as i love the game, its just too old at this point. And SE has been stubborn too long about even considering the issue.

[Elexia]

Dear Square enix It is time too STEP UP your game there is alot of NEW MMO games coming out the Market that might kill ffxi.

Every MMO and offline game was said to kill FFXI ever since 2003. FFXI must be on it's..200th life by now? If it was to be killed it would have been killed when WoW came out, you know, that MMO people said would kill XI in 2004?

[BurnNotice]

I won't repeat what others stated about the PS2 Limitations. In fact, it plays no factor to the reason why new content (not recycled) hasn't been available. Speaking of which, if I am not mistaken, but didn't SE state that they will be releasing NEW CONTENT (this include new areas never before seen) coming in 2012? This may not be an expansion, but it is brand-spanking new stuff.

[Greatguardian]

Technically, Walk of Echoes was a new zone with new content, too. So much potential...

[Leonlionheart]

Everyone realizes that no matter what, PS2 space limitations will always remain right? So as we might be able to get a new zone right now, once the client reaches 10gb, it's done.

So, SE is saying to you "Hey look what we can do right now!" but they aren't telling you that adding this zone, or that graphic brings FFXI closer and closer to a standstill, and it's not too far off. At some point, either the PS2 has to go, or FFXI has to go.

[Spiritreaver]

Everyone realizes that no matter what, PS2 space limitations will always remain right? So as we might be able to get a new zone right now, once the client reaches 10gb, it's done.

So, SE is saying to you "Hey look what we can do right now!" but they aren't telling you that adding this zone, or that graphic brings FFXI closer and closer to a standstill, and it's not too far off. At some point, either the PS2 has to go, or FFXI has to go.

OK...its 2013. The last OEM spec PS2 dies. So what now? There are no more PS2s. They are all gone. Kaput. Can SE now start rolling out all the awesome things i have seen ppl ask for?

Not without reworking the game and removing all the PS2 bits.

And again i ask, for this now 12 yr old game, you really think SE is going to retool FFXI?

Put group-think down for a second ppl and just think...


What's holding FFXI back? One thing, SE itself. SE is now, has in the past, and unless they wise up, will be in the future as well, the only thing holding back FFXI. I mean we saw a little taste of what FFXI could have been all along with Abyssea content, but 'Old SE' is coming back with a vengeance now(IE. Voidwatch, ridiculous reqs for minimal rewards, timesinks for the sake of having them, etc.)-and its bringing the pain.

They threw out "PS2 limitations" so many times over the years, no one thought to look any deeper. And if we had we'd have seen sooner that that infamous phrase really meant "We can make the changes that you are requesting, but because we don't feel like it and are already diverting large amounts of resources from FFXI to make another MMO(instead of properly setting this new project up on its own and putting serious thought into building new FFXI content), we won't."

[Kaizersan]

I know all of you are really wishing this would happen but it won't Sony didn't revamp EQ after EQ was declining they just made a totally new EQ with some of the same stuff from the old one which is some what how 14 is to 11 and realistically you have a better chance at it raining 100 dollar bills all over the US then you do of SE dropping PS2 and doing a total remake.

[Vold]

I know all of you are really wishing this would happen but it won't Sony didn't revamp EQ after EQ was declining they just made a totally new EQ with some of the same stuff from the old one which is some what how 14 is to 11 and realistically you have a better chance at it raining 100 dollar bills all over the US then you do of SE dropping PS2 and doing a total remake.Yes and how well exactly did EQ2 do again?


Do we see now why this "newer is better" logic is flawed in the MMO department? No? Okay. Why does WoW still have 11 million subscriptions? There has been a ton of new MMOs since it's release years ago. Do we see now why this "newer is better" logic is flawed in the MMO department? No? Okay. No winning this debate so I'm out. Got better things to do than debate flawed logic.

[Leonlionheart]

OK...its 2013. The last OEM spec PS2 dies. So what now? There are no more PS2s. They are all gone. Kaput. Can SE now start rolling out all the awesome things i have seen ppl ask for?

Not without reworking the game and removing all the PS2 bits.

And again i ask, for this now 12 yr old game, you really think SE is going to retool FFXI?

Put group-think down for a second ppl and just think...


What's holding FFXI back? One thing, SE itself. SE is now, has in the past, and unless they wise up, will be in the future as well, the only thing holding back FFXI. I mean we saw a little taste of what FFXI could have been all along with Abyssea content, but 'Old SE' is coming back with a vengeance now(IE. Voidwatch, ridiculous reqs for minimal rewards, timesinks for the sake of having them, etc.)-and its bringing the pain.

They threw out "PS2 limitations" so many times over the years, no one thought to look any deeper. And if we had we'd have seen sooner that that infamous phrase really meant "We can make the changes that you are requesting, but because we don't feel like it and are already diverting large amounts of resources from FFXI to make another MMO(instead of properly setting this new project up on its own and putting serious thought into building new FFXI content), we won't."

I never even said anything about asking for new awesome things.

I agree completely, SE's attitude is the problem. If you read the second section, you'd have realized the tone was pretty much saying exactly what you said.

Still at some point PS2 has to go, once that crutch is gone they will have less and less of a public excuse to fail FFXI. Either way, no matter what the PS2 will either die, or FFXI will die.

[Keyln]

Every MMO and offline game was said to kill FFXI ever since 2003. FFXI must be on it's..200th life by now? If it was to be killed it would have been killed when WoW came out, you know, that MMO people said would kill XI in 2004?

It's an annual thing. First it was WoW, and then Guild Wars, and then Rift, and then Everquest II, and now Star Wars: The Old Republic.

Heck, Everquest is STILL going on, even after 12 years strong.

[Atomic_Skull]

I know all of you are really wishing this would happen but it won't Sony didn't revamp EQ after EQ was declining

Actually they did, twice. There are been two client and graphics updates to EQ since EQ2 came out.

[Kaizersan]

Yes and how well exactly did EQ2 do again?


Do we see now why this "newer is better" logic is flawed in the MMO department? No? Okay. Why does WoW still have 11 million subscriptions? There has been a ton of new MMOs since it's release years ago. Do we see now why this "newer is better" logic is flawed in the MMO department? No? Okay. No winning this debate so I'm out. Got better things to do than debate flawed logic.

Sorry but EQ2 didn't do so well not because it was newer it was because the game was a beast when it came to vid cards at the time not many people were willing to shell out the cash to play it and plus give it some time and there will be a new WoW it is just the way things go and it will do just as well as the old WoW.

[Kaizersan]

Actually they did, twice. There are been two client and graphics updates to EQ since EQ2 came out.

I don't know it looks the same to me since all those years ago when I played it maybe a bit better but not as much as people are expecting them to do with FFXI.

[Kaizersan]

Oh and Guild Wars 2 looks better and plays better and is going to be setup way better then Guild Wars so there is an example of newer is better.

[Rhianu]

It's an annual thing. First it was WoW, and then Guild Wars, and then Rift, and then Everquest II, and now Star Wars: The Old Republic.

Heck, Everquest is STILL going on, even after 12 years strong.
It isn't just FFXI that people keep saying is going to get killed, either. It happens to every MMO. Even WoW can't escape it. The mainstream media has attributed the term "WoW killer" to every MMO released since 2005. Seriously, anytime a fresh new MMO comes out, everyone says it's going to kill every other MMO on the market. Of course it never actually happens, but that doesn't stop people from saying it.

Occasionally an MMO will flop and get shutdown (Auto Assault is one example), but these are games that were failures right out of the starting gate, and never had a period of genuine profitability. MMOs that get shutdown usually kill themselves -- they don't get killed by other games.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

It's an annual thing. First it was WoW, and then Guild Wars, and then Rift, and then Everquest II, and now Star Wars: The Old Republic.

Heck, Everquest is STILL going on, even after 12 years strong.No one ever thought RIFT was going to ammount to anything and it never has.

[Leonlionheart]

No one ever thought RIFT was going to ammount to anything and it never has.

Well it's amounted to about as much as FFXI has, they had the same peak subscribers, and it's only in it's first year.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Well it's amounted to about as much as FFXI has, they had the same peak subscribers, and it's only in it's first year.Most do that, WoW clones for WoW players an what-not.

[Dohati]

ffxi doesn't need a complete makeover. more expansions, more areas, more content, more mission lines. pleeeeeeease :< the only reason ps2 has to go is spacial limitations, but kick it to the curb!

[Keyln]

No one ever thought RIFT was going to ammount to anything and it never has.

Missing the point. The point is that someone will go something like, "FFXI is doomed because X game is coming out unless SE does Y.".

[Rhianu]

Most do that, WoW clones for WoW players an what-not.
Actually no, they don't. Warhammer, for example, has a subscriber base significantly lower than FFXI's, as does Age of Conan, and several others.

Also, the most recent numbers I heard for Rift is one-million subscribers, so actually Rift is the most successful MMO to be released in the last five years. I think that ought to count for something.