[dev1042] Level Cap Increase (BST Related)

[Garota]

I noticed this subject matter has not been touched upon yet. So, I need a career BST aficionado to explain something to me please.

Last I remember, there was a poll for all of you guys to help the Dev Team decide on a jug pet. This pet was "supposed" to be based on overall player feedback... Instead, it turned out they decided on an Adamantoise, Apkallu and by "popular demand (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/1697-What-new-Jug-Pets-would-you-like-to-see-91-99?p=212722&viewfull=1#post212722)"... A Hippogryph... Not a Scorpion... Devs must have a phobia of them.

But then... In the most recent job adjustment notes for the test server, there will actually be a 4th pet (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/17017) added to the latest entourage of jug pets. Because everybody loves froggies... Since these "unevolved" Poroggos typically have no TP attacks, I honestly don't know how Kermit is going to be of any use... What are you guys supposed to do with your "Sic" or "Ready" commands? (Which ever one is used for summoned jug pets... I'unno...)

So what I'm getting at is... Why are they implementing a frog rather than a scorpion? Why haven't any of you spoken up about this yet? Are Devs intentionally adding a frog for no good reason? Are they really listening to anything we have to say or disregarding player feedback?

This silly amphibian better Pokévolve into a full grown frog that can charmga all nearby enemies or something...

[Mavrick]

I did a few runs on the test Sever with the new jugs. The TP Abilities have been disabled. (Seriously... what is the point of the test serve?)


Well lack of TP abilities aside I was generally unimpressed with the new jugs. Adamantoise Max HP seems to be around 4200. Has slow movement speed. He has decent melee stats however he is lacking Double attack and any other notable offensive traits so I guess he is PLD/RDM. Hippo's HP seems to be around 4900-5000. Hippo is just another version of Dipper, apart from higher HP and movement speed I did not see any notable gap in performance between the two of them. Based on the blank "Fire" based TP ability in his Ready List I assume he will get the Boost ability so only time will tell. Appkallu and frog are a complete and utter joke. Apkallu... there has to be something to this jug that I am missing. He has very slow movmemnt speed, he is mnk but will not always attack twice during an attack round, and his attacks are absolutely pitiful... Vs Amun Turtle is doing 150~190, Hippo is doing 110~130, the Apkallu is doing 40~45 and 100 crtical hits. Frog is a little better than Apkallu but that is not saying much, he has slightly higher attack speed but no where near enough to make up for his low attack rating, lack of TP abilites and lack of offensive traits.

New Pet food is available on test server:
Pet Food Theta
Level: 96
MND 137
recovers: 1911 HP
No +Reward gear was used

[Dreamin]

A lot of us spoke out and is still waiting for a real clarifications from SE, but apparently they got their head caught in the sand and trying to pretend that we dont exists and will go away quietly.

Have a look:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/1697-What-new-Jug-Pets-would-you-like-to-see-91-99

[Xilk]

when they added the frog, they said it was kinda just a mascot pet... its not a serious type pet at all. someone suggested it during the poll, and I guess dev's liked the idea. It was announced that it would be available at level 23, and not a serious battle pet, but only added for fun.

its purchased from npc also, not crafted.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Hippogryph needs to be checked with fire damage. Fire spells were doing less that 100 a whole lot.

[Garota]

A lot of us spoke out and is still waiting for a real clarifications from SE, but apparently they got their head caught in the sand and trying to pretend that we dont exists and will go away quietly.

Have a look:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/1697-What-new-Jug-Pets-would-you-like-to-see-91-99

Oh yeah, I know there is an entire thread dedicated to how it got started and what happened after the poll. But I was mostly referring to why there hadn't been a more direct reaction to the matter. Such as a [dev1042] response. I'll admit I'm lazy and didn't feel like digging through PAGES of posts just to find the answer.


when they added the frog, they said it was kinda just a mascot pet... its not a serious type pet at all. someone suggested it during the poll, and I guess dev's liked the idea. It was announced that it would be available at level 23, and not a serious battle pet, but only added for fun.

its purchased from npc also, not crafted.

But yeah, guess this is more the answer I was looking for. Nevertheless, thanks guys. :) The feedback was much appreciated.

[Lordscyon]

~BST POWER~

Let your inner BEAST out!

[Olor]

how is the apkullu doing the same dmg as mascot frog? That's pitiful.

[Xilk]

Yeah, mascot frog is not currently capped at 40 like they first said. Its dd is comparable to the lvel 90 jugs... well at least its base damage is. I've not tested it vs high level pets yet. don't know what the attack range is.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I noticed this subject matter has not been touched upon yet. So, I need a career BST aficionado to explain something to me please.

Last I remember, there was a poll for all of you guys to help the Dev Team decide on a jug pet. This pet was "supposed" to be based on overall player feedback... Instead, it turned out they decided on an Adamantoise, Apkallu and by "popular demand (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/1697-What-new-Jug-Pets-would-you-like-to-see-91-99?p=212722&viewfull=1#post212722)"... A Hippogryph... Not a Scorpion... Devs must have a phobia of them.

But then... In the most recent job adjustment notes for the test server, there will actually be a 4th pet (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/17017) added to the latest entourage of jug pets. Because everybody loves froggies... Since these "unevolved" Poroggos typically have no TP attacks, I honestly don't know how Kermit is going to be of any use... What are you guys supposed to do with your "Sic" or "Ready" commands? (Which ever one is used for summoned jug pets... I'unno...)

So what I'm getting at is... Why are they implementing a frog rather than a scorpion? Why haven't any of you spoken up about this yet? Are Devs intentionally adding a frog for no good reason? Are they really listening to anything we have to say or disregarding player feedback?

This silly amphibian better Pokévolve into a full grown frog that can charmga all nearby enemies or something...I can't believe you made anotehr thread for this. EVERY VOTE WAS ACCOUNTED FOR. It doesn't matter that the english forums have 50,000,000 votes for scorpion, that still only adds up to 1 tally for scorpion. They decided on popularity per forum, not by numbers of single votes. Doing so kept it fair. All you're doing is dragging it out, complaining, and wasting dev time. Making up some incidious plot that doesn't exist. Hippo won, it's done, get over it.
The frog has nothing to do with any of this. It's a novelty item they added for novelty's sake only.

[Garota]

How should I know? Plus, I'm not REALLY complaining, I'm not a BST. I'm not some bum who sits around and reads and replies to every post in forums. Look at my post count and look at yours. I have less important things to do, such as ask questions for you to troll. But thanks to you too I guess. I understand how the US Electoral College System works but... I still don't understand how they did the votes here. Perhaps you can elaborate.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

We'll use an arbitrary number, 50. So let's say the total number of votes for the scorpion on the english forums was the said number. We'll be arbitrary again and say the other got 30 and the hippogryph got 20. Now we'll continue this line and say in the JP forum it was 25 hippo, 20 other and 15 scorp and the other forums came up with 15 hippo, 10 scorp, 5 other.
Now this DOSE NOT add up to 75 scorp, 55 other and 50 hippo. It adds up to; English scorp 1st, other 2nd and hippo 3rd, JP hippo 1st, other 2nd and scorp 3rd, and Other hippo 1st, other 2nd and scorp 3rd. Which gives you Hippo first and scorp last. This is how they kept it fair. So simple with the forums that have smaller post counts get an equal say in the matter. As apposed to the english forums that have threads with counts higher then the other forum's total post count all together, because the people here can't shut up about about things like why relic should always be better then everything in the game just because if it's not, it would dimish their person achievement. This is the same reasoning why I say bickering and draging out the scorp is petty and a waste of time even though it lost fair and square.
Nothing against you, just see it as yet another "why didn't you count our votes thread." They're becoming as incidious as the "let us change our names" threads. It seems you missed the guy who comes back and posts replys to himself demanding a dev go out of their way to answer him so he can fee justified in some way against sometihng that's already lost. Infact these are the same people who started the "are we just wasting our time" thread in the general disscussion because they couldn't figure out how the vote worked even though they were plainly told.

[Sharnak]

Form my test Adamantoise is seem like to Slugs pet it's very high resistant to water base magic, I bring it try with VNM T2 Yacumama, It's get hit form nm en-water like 0-2 dmg (i use 1 food to kill this) , also it's very ideal pet to tank Krabkatoa, when i try it's very resist to bubble shower and also i really feel that it's resist to poison form venom shower, i think with Harden Shell it's may bet for nice tank pet in some case. too bad i run out of pet food (left only 3 when start fight it) else i think it's very possible to solo Krabkatoa with some of jug. The worst point of this turtle is it's movement speed is very slow, even no any movement speed i need to keep wait it.

[Selzak]

I can't believe you made anotehr thread for this. EVERY VOTE WAS ACCOUNTED FOR. It doesn't matter that the english forums have 50,000,000 votes for scorpion, that still only adds up to 1 tally for scorpion. They decided on popularity per forum, not by numbers of single votes. Doing so kept it fair. All you're doing is dragging it out, complaining, and wasting dev time. Making up some incidious plot that doesn't exist. Hippo won, it's done, get over it.
The frog has nothing to do with any of this. It's a novelty item they added for novelty's sake only.
How does that "make it fair"?

Assuming that is the way they handled this, that was a very stupid way to do it. Especially considering that only one other forum even voted, and they only had 1-2 pages of (disagreeing) votes.

Also, I like how you bolded the statement that every vote was accounted for, then described a system in which every vote is not accounted for. If I could make it through your second wall of drivel I'm sure I could explain the fallacies in it too, but I'm not doing that to myself on a Saturday.


Regardless, I bet the Hippogryph will be cool and I'm certain the Turtle will be an interesting tank. The fact just remains that the poll thing was very unfair, and if it's brought up I will always reiterate that.

[Camate]

Just wanted to pass along some additional information on the new familiars.



Toad: Level 23. There are no abilities that can be used. Seems like the attack delay is the same as a level 76+ pet, making me think the real level is around 75.


As we have mentioned previously, when considering that this pet is supposed to just be a mascot-type pet, it’s planned to be the cheapest of all familiars. Following this, we feel like the current stats are not really appropriate.



Apkallu: Level 76, monk type. Only able to use Beak Lunge and Wing Slap. I would really have liked to use Yawn and Frigid Shuffle. Pretty disappointed as this is the first bird type pet. Are you making adjustments and planning to add this later?


We are planning to make this a pet that is easy to obtain and will be balancing its power accordingly (Planning to make it cheaper than Yuly).

With that said, we believe it would be too overpowered for it to have Yawn and Frigid Shuffle.



Hippogryph: Level 86, thief type. Triple Attack activates as normal. Able to use Jettatura, Choke Breath, Back Heel, and Fantod. Really happy with the stats, but disappointing that they can’t use the Dispel ability, Nihility Song. I feel like the regular attacks powered up by Fantod are stronger than Back Heel. Was this adjusted making it weaker? Also it shows that Back Heel requires one charge, but it actually takes two. Is this a test server bug?


Back Heel requires one charge, Fantod requires two.
We felt Nihility Song was a bit overpowered, so we removed it. Apologies!
Jettatura completely ignores resists currently, so we are planning to adjust this. There is also a chance that we remove it completely.



Adamantoise: Level 96, high attack power, high defense, and slow. Definitely a turtle. Can use three abilities: Harden Shell, Turtle Stomp, and Aqua Breath. Does not have access to Head Butt, Tortoise Song, or Earth Breath. Turtle Stomp is just a normal physical weapon skill. Was it only certain NMs that had the added effect of defense down? Breath is capped at 400. While you can’t use the abilities for kited battles, seems like this guy makes a good tank.


We are planning to make a couple adjustments and we’re also thinking about strengthening Aqua Breath.

[xbobx]

"We are planning to make this a pet that is easy to obtain and will be balancing its power accordingly (Planning to make it cheaper than Yuly). ""

How can I say this politely. What a %*#^$*#^ comment. Every jug is cheaper then Yuly. Congrats, easier to obtain is less then 100k a stack lol? I hope you meant the sheep. I am going to assume that you didn't mean Yuly because that would be a very dumb move on SE's part.

Jugs are Bsts main weapon, they should never ever be over 20k a stack.

[Sparthos]

Just wanted to pass along some additional information on the new familiars.



As we have mentioned previously, when considering that this pet is supposed to just be a mascot-type pet, it’s planned to be the cheapest of all familiars. Following this, we feel like the current stats are not really appropriate.



We are planning to make this a pet that is easy to obtain and will be balancing its power accordingly (Planning to make it cheaper than Yuly).

With that said, we believe it would be too overpowered for it to have Yawn and Frigid Shuffle.



Back Heel requires one charge, Fantod requires two.
We felt Nihility Song was a bit overpowered, so we removed it. Apologies!
Jettatura completely ignores resists currently, so we are planning to adjust this. There is also a chance that we remove it completely.



We are planning to make a couple adjustments and we’re also thinking about strengthening Aqua Breath.

No offense to Camate but these are a bunch of nerfs akin to getting a lump of coal in a well dressed box.

So the Toad is going to be stripped of any melee capability for the sake of being a mascot-type pet. Ok, why isn't this just a job emote then? The pet will have absolutely no practical purpose if stripped down further except to eat inventory slots.

Can a mascot not fight back?
Can't players just pick the pet they like the most and make it their mascot?

This makes no sense, especially coming off the scorpion and ruszor being snubbed which were equally wanted by players.

@Apkallu - Cheaper than Yuly pretty much means within the range of a number of other pets which is pretty much anything between 4k/stack to 50k/stack. Ok, fair enough.

Why is Yawn "overpowered"? Nazuna has Sheep Song which is not only the same element as Yawn but also doesn't require facing the Apkallu to land. This is simply confusing given previous decisionmaking.

Frigid Shuffle "overpowered"? Again this requires facing the Apkallu, the paralyze effect isn't very special compared to other classes and it'd most certainly be set at 2-3 charges. How is this ability even noteworthy?

@Hippogryph

Nihility Song is dispel ability and is limited to a Ready timer and TP, how exactly is this overpowered especially given the decision to give Puppetmaster a dispel attachment and the ability to use Dispel via the automaton? Is the timer, TP requirement and decision to give up damage (by not using Fantod/Back Heel) balancing force enough?

These overpowered abilities are just confusing.

@Turtle

Removing Head Butt is confusing. Wouldn't that help tanking if that's where this jug is supposed to be used? The ability to use a faux-bash everytime you've got TP up isn't exactly amazing when compared to other classes.

[Tawnee]

"it would be/was too overpowered" is becoming the new "ps2 limitations"

[Areola]

Wait a sec... did we just trolled? There trying to justify the apkallu being crap by saying it will be cheaper then dipper? That Sir does not sit well with me. Then they might remove Jettatura because it works? unlike feral howl that will never work when it could actually help. /sigh SE

[Vold]

Just wanted to pass along some additional information on the new familiars.



As we have mentioned previously, when considering that this pet is supposed to just be a mascot-type pet, it’s planned to be the cheapest of all familiars. Following this, we feel like the current stats are not really appropriate.



We are planning to make this a pet that is easy to obtain and will be balancing its power accordingly (Planning to make it cheaper than Yuly).

With that said, we believe it would be too overpowered for it to have Yawn and Frigid Shuffle.



Back Heel requires one charge, Fantod requires two.
We felt Nihility Song was a bit overpowered, so we removed it. Apologies!
Jettatura completely ignores resists currently, so we are planning to adjust this. There is also a chance that we remove it completely.



We are planning to make a couple adjustments and we’re also thinking about strengthening Aqua Breath.

I...um...I....Iiiiiiii...um...I... I don't understand.

[Madteddybear]

.....
SE never ceases to amaze me with their imcompetence...
-Toad a mascot ? - Nice now this is WoW. Please dont even put it ingame.. makes me a sad panda..
- Apkallu part its a joke or something ? the pet sucks hard... not even with those "overpowered moves" will do a shit
- Hippo seems only decent pet they have done on this update to come, i bet will be costly though.
- Turtle.. idc if walks slow, if the trade off is, that its a good tank pet, but its far from be a even a decent pet, slug or even NN tank better than it -_-, will prolly cost a kidney also.

Please Dear SE erase the f... Toad and Apkallu ( idc we dont have birds pets ) and add some good pets, Scorp like the most people wanted and not the " 1 vote per Region crap... " you guys can have your toads, i dont give a f.. about mascots... like 99% of people.

Anyway , dunno why i waste my time saying this, SE only reads Jps forums, guess is the dissapointment that got me after read the nosense Official post from SE.

Oh , well we still have Blue magefor the fun :D

[Areola]

.....
SE never ceases to amaze me with their imcompetence...
-Toad a mascot ? - Nice now this is WoW. Please dont even put it ingame.. makes me a sad panda..
- Apkallu part its a joke or something ? the pet sucks hard... not even with those "overpowered moves" will do a shit
- Hippo seems only decent pet they have done on this update to come, i bet will be costly though.
- Turtle.. idc if walks slow, if the trade off is, that its a good tank pet, but its far from be a even a decent pet, slug or even NN tank better than it -_-, will prolly cost a kidney also.

Please Dear SE erase the f... Toad and Apkallu ( idc we dont have birds pets ) and add some good pets, Scorp like the most people wanted and not the " 1 vote per Region crap... " you guys can have your toads, i dont give a f.. about mascots... like 99% of people.

Anyway , dunno why i waste my time saying this, SE only reads Jps forums, guess is the dissapointment that got me after read the nosense Official post from SE.

Oh , well we still have Blue magefor the fun :D

I approve this message

[Theomega]

I'm just throwing this out there but is there any word on that Guttler specific Jug Pet that was mentioned as a possibility a few months back.

[Sparthos]

I'm just throwing this out there but is there any word on that Guttler specific Jug Pet that was mentioned as a possibility a few months back.

So that's where the Scorpion or Ruszor will go!

[Dreamin]

I'm still laughing regarding the bird going to be cheaper than Yuly right now.

I'm afraid to even think the cost for Hippo and Adamantoise going to be if the cost of Apkallu is worth mentioning that will be below Yuly. Wondering will the Hippo be 2-3x the cost of Yuly? Adamantoise? Dont know about others, but there's not many pet jug that cost more than Yuly right now here.

Please tell Tanaka "Thanks for the laughes". Guess my BST going to be in the deep freezer now.

[SpankWustler]

We are planning to make this a pet that is easy to obtain and will be balancing its power accordingly (Planning to make it cheaper than Yuly).

Every jug pet commonly used above level 75 is cheaper than Dipper Yuly, and the majority of them also do more damage than Dipper Yuly or have more useful Sic commands. I don't understand why Dipper Yuly is used for this comparison, or the weird standards the development team have for jug pet price VS jug pet performance.

Am I missing something? Is the Apkallu a Thief in spite of every other member of his or her species following the path of punching stuff and being a Monk?

I feel like someone has just informed me that he's going to pee on me while I'm asleep because the Martians who live in his shoes are banging out telegraphs on his toenails. He tries to explain that dispensing his urine onto those who do not want it is the only way to make them stop, but that just makes the whole thing even more nonsensical.

TL;DNR Version: I do not understand the comparison at all. I do not understand the need for or reasoning behind such a comparison, either.

[Karbuncle]

Camate, No one hates you, We hate the Devs answers.

I'm upset about the other answers... because...welll

1) Terror being removed/Nerfed from Hippo. Stupid. Its Stun. Nothing more, nothing less. its not broken. Stop trying to oversell it SE

2) Sleep/paralyze on Apkallu being too powerful? Hello Soporific, Sheep Song, and Roar? Those aren't too broken, and at least 2 of those are attached to some bad-ass pets. And we all know Apkallu, as a Monk pet, Is going to set ass. All Monk pets suck.

3) Turtle and no Head butt = Lame. But i can get over it. Its about as annoying as the slug though, What with the slug having no 1 Charge TP moves.

I'm not upset about the toad, Frankly I don't know how all of you seemed to miss the previous topic he made about the Toad before it was even released. He mentioned that the Toad was an additional side project considered a Mascot (Recommend by JP no doubt). It wasn't chosen over Scorpion or what have you, It was a completely different project.

If you wanna be pissed Scorpion or Ruszor weren't added, Blame the Hippos.

[SpankWustler]

Camate, No one hates you, We hate the Devs answers.

Truer words have never been spoken.

[Helel]

"We are planning to make this a pet that is easy to obtain and will be balancing its power accordingly (Planning to make it cheaper than Yuly). ""

How can I say this politely. What a %*#^$*#^ comment. Every jug is cheaper then Yuly. Congrats, easier to obtain is less then 100k a stack lol? I hope you meant the sheep. I am going to assume that you didn't mean Yuly because that would be a very dumb move on SE's part.

Jugs are Bsts main weapon, they should never ever be over 20k a stack.

Are you serious? Have you never played RNG before?

[Sparthos]

I'm not upset about the toad, Frankly I don't know how all of you seemed to miss the previous topic he made about the Toad before it was even released. He mentioned that the Toad was an additional side project considered a Mascot (Recommend by JP no doubt). It wasn't chosen over Scorpion or what have you, It was a completely different project.

If you wanna be pissed Scorpion or Ruszor weren't added, Blame the Hippos.

The thing about the toad isn't even that it's being added but that SE has basically told us that it will be useless as soon as it launches.

It's a huge slap considering that many jug pets are sitting under cap in obscurity, that some people have their own mascots (I like the Diremite or Black Mandy personally), that dev time could have been used to implement the pets players wanted and that this pet will be completely and utterly pointless. If they wanted to add a Toad then it should have been an /emote.

Does a mascot really have to have no purpose?

[Vold]

I'm not sure how a mascot is supposed to work? Is it just going to follow us around everywhere we go? Will we be able to call it and a regular pet at the same time? Will we be able to summon it in town? Will it do tricks when you stand still for a period of time? I hope it's something more than a call beast pet that doesn't do squat but stand there and follow you around like a cat or dog.

[Stabbytabby]

The sheep already has Light-based sleepga and costs next to nothing. Hobbes has a non-facing-based aoe paralyze AND is an actual DD.

This looks like a bunch of pets I'd expect to use once then never again. You gave BST a feeble 'end game' weaponskill and now we can expect some feeble melee pets too. Great, well, back to 2007 I guess...no invites, no love. Oh, wait, no charmables anymore too. Superb.

Can you please ask the devs why the rich get richer (BLU, etc.) and the jobs that are considered 2nd or 3rd tier (BST, RDM, etc.) get beaten down more?
(And no, I can't explain what's up with pup...lottery win? ;) )

[Dmer]

Even if they added a jug for every mob in the game, gave them every TP move possible, and sold them from an NPC for 1 gil each, BST will never be what it was until we get new content with charmable mobs to use as pets.

Jugs used to be the "oh shit" pet used to keep an angry mob from eating your face when you had too many failed charms in a row. The total lack of charmable mobs in any end-game area/event now has taken all the fun and thrill out of this job. So give us as many gimped jugs as you want because they are all gimp compared to an actual charmed pet anyway.

[Xilk]

Wow, this information is grossly disappointing, and doesn't really match up with the explanations.

I don't really care much about the toad. I never expected to use it anyway. I was surprised it could go to such high level on the test server. If it kept it's current dd and level... well it might actually be 1/2 decent to tank on heavy magical casting nm's... but we have other options for that. I never expected anything from it..

The apkallu is the most disappointing. Yawn too overpowered? cheaper than yuly (everything is cheaper than yuly, understandably so). If it doesn't have yawn, its going to see as much action as flowerpot merle... meaning none.
Keeping yawn off this pet means its completely worthless, you may as well relegate it to toad status.

Nihility song... I understand that getting nerfed. I know we already have an AoE dispel on Broncha.. but Nihility song dispels everything. Mutliple status buffs everything in range. I would rather see this changed to a single buff removal than see it removed completely. Removing jetattura would be a complete shame also.
Hippogryph is going to be the most popular jug. Its a bird type, its thf, and it has improved movement speed. It seems plenty of players forget/don't realize that we are getting 2x bird type jugs... unfortunately we don't have a serviceable aquan at max level.

Adamantoise, I'm not terribly worried about. As long as there isn't a huge nerf that they are keeping quiet about, small adjustments should be fine. Its a good pet as it is... the slow movement speed is really annoying though... especially if you are used to running around w/ skadi feet. I won't be dragging him around a zone, but I will plant him to tank some big fights.

[Alhanelem]

With that said, we believe it would be too overpowered for it to have Yawn and Frigid Shuffle.Because anything that might be useful enough to be "worth using" would be overpowered, wouldn't it?

Given how little BST is used, it deserves to have some strong abilities.

"We thought this would be too cool for people to have, so we removed it."

[Sparthos]

Nihility Song only removes one buff, it isn't a complete dispel.

[Babekeke]

You can bet your bottom dollar that you won't be able to show off your 'mascot' in towns, either (apart from Al Zahbi and WoTG, of course)

[Mavrick]

The sheep already has Light-based sleepga

Just a little correction. Sheep's version of sheep song does not appear to be light based, it is most likely dark. I was unable to get it to land on a group of ~6 EP skeletons while doing trials.


Even if they added a jug for every mob in the game, gave them every TP move possible, and sold them from an NPC for 1 gil each, BST will never be what it was until we get new content with charmable mobs to use as pets.

Be what it was? you mean camping in the middle of nowhere soloing 5k/hr and pet-burning NMs? becuase that is all BST was ever good at, and if this is what you want bst to become then consider the job dead. I agree that call beast is pretty weak, but charm isn't really all that better. Simply placing charmable monsters in serious content zone will not resolve much of anything. All charm has over call beast is higher Max HP, and a disposable pet with random Sic attacks. Once again, this is only useful for exp'n or pet-burns, which is not the direction the game is heading. Charm would need a significant boost to be useful in the current gaming environment.
If you want to improve charm....

- Give me a charmable tiger with a potent Aura Double Attack.
- A charmable Scorpion with a decent +critical rate and +critical damage aura.
- Mandragora are weak pets, but give if they added new unique pet with useful aoe buffs (haste,regain,ect) they would make exceptional pets for "Serious" content areas.
- Charmable Lynx mob with an aoe version of Frenzied Rage (Attack Boost+20%).
- Give me a scenario where BST can charm the weaker NM baby adds that spawn from mega bosses.
- I want to be able to select TP abilites when using charm...
- I want a Charm II that has a significantly longer charm duration, and prevents "Even Match" (and lower) pets from attacking my pt if charm misses or wears off.

Add some of these adjustments to charm and then more people would take it seriously... oh and bst-main only please.

I see a lot of people crying for Scorpion and Rugzor jugs.... but considering lack luster Adamantiose, Hippo, Bird are and a frog mascot just for laughs.. I have a feeling any pet they add now is going to be equally as worthless... the problem is not with the pets.... it's SE's idea of balance... (looks at WARs)

Personally, I think frog and bird jugs fits the job perfectly. As we move outside of Abyssea and towards Voidwatch and 99 content, BST is quickly becoming more and more of a joke. You spend gil out the ass spamming Reward and Dawns to keep your pet alive while taking 1500~2000 damage from AOEs and getting pelted for 500~900 damage from normal melee attacks from serious NMs... All the while using pet that contribute nothing to the fight barring a 1 min decoy should the tanks go down or lose hate. Take a look at PUP's most recent updates, now look at what bst has gotten in the last +8 years.... and we still cannot zone with jugs! BST just don't seem to be a high priority job.

[deces]

Tanaka is like a turd just wont flush!

[Karbuncle]

The thing about the toad isn't even that it's being added but that SE has basically told us that it will be useless as soon as it launches.

It's a huge slap considering that many jug pets are sitting under cap in obscurity, that some people have their own mascots (I like the Diremite or Black Mandy personally), that dev time could have been used to implement the pets players wanted and that this pet will be completely and utterly pointless. If they wanted to add a Toad then it should have been an /emote.

Does a mascot really have to have no purpose?

How did I become an Elvaan.

And its not that I Don't agree with you, I'm just wondering why Everyones suddenly shitting themselves over something that was announced quite openly weeks back that they were giving us this useless pet.

I mean, I'm all for it having some use, But they told us from the beginning it would be a cheap useless pet so I knew what to expect. My only amazement is that more than half of you seemed to have missed it.

I'd of preferred an actual Poroggo Caster, We need a pet that can nuke :|, for the lulz? Plus Water Bomb?

[Madteddybear]

Its not that we get a mascot jug that its totally worthless what really piss people, its about the bad joke of say that other 3 they adding are overpowered with the missing WSs...

The Toad should be called from separate ja, Could it be as Follows :
- Square Enix Bad Joke : Call forth a Toad to "Fight" by your side that will be completly useless,still will make JP comunity happy since they asked, and since we cant make BST half ally helpful it better than nothing.

People saying people angry cause they think toad taking the place of scorp or ruszor, are getting it wrong, the point is they giving a mascot instead of give BST better jugs than the crap they relased , before update BST to make it ally friendly like they said a few months ago they will..
Seems like BST will remain like the job to chill out on your free time with no events etc, or to solo some old content nms and bcnm for the fun.
Thank you so much for this update SE, cant wait for it.

[Mavrick]

How did I become an Elvaan.

And its not that I Don't agree with you, I'm just wondering why Everyones suddenly shitting themselves over something that was announced quite openly weeks back that they were giving us this useless pet.

I mean, I'm all for it having some use, But they told us from the beginning it would be a cheap useless pet so I knew what to expect. My only amazement is that more than half of you seemed to have missed it.

I'd of preferred an actual Poroggo Caster, We need a pet that can nuke :|, for the lulz? Plus Water Bomb?

Did you even read the posts?
People are upset because SE thinks things like aoe dispel, sleep and paralyze are over overpowering... it ridiculous because other pets already have those abilities and they work even better because mobs don't have to be facing the pet. They nerfed the turtle's offensive abilities making them all but useless, and they plan on nerfing the already underwhelming pets even more by removing some of the already weak tp moves. Also the bird jug..... even with all the abilities.... what the hell is the point of the bird jug!? It so craptastically weak... and it has reduced movement speed for extra "lol" factor. I find more use in the frog than the bird.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Wait a sec... did we just trolled? There trying to justify the apkallu being crap by saying it will be cheaper then dipper? That Sir does not sit well with me. Then they might remove Jettatura because it works? unlike feral howl that will never work when it could actually help. /sigh SE

A pet that has no good TP moves, no triple attack and no TH.... I should hope such a crap pet should be cheaper than an actual useful one.

[Karbuncle]

Did you even read the posts?
People are upset because SE thinks things like aoe dispel, sleep and paralyze are over overpowering... it ridiculous because other pets already have those abilities and they work even better because mobs don't have to be facing the pet. They nerfed the turtle's offensive abilities making them all but useless, and they plan on nerfing the already underwhelming pets even more by removing some of the already weak tp moves. Also the bird jug..... even with all the abilities.... what the hell is the point of the bird jug!? It so craptastically weak... and it has reduced movement speed for extra "lol" factor. I find more use in the frog than the bird.

Did you even read the posts?

Theres quite a few people complaining about how awful the Frog pet is. What I'm saying is we knew it was going to be awful from the beginning... They spelled out that he'd be a useless cheap jug pet

[Xilk]

Just a little correction. Sheep's version of sheep song does not appear to be light based, it is most likely dark. I was unable to get it to land on a group of ~6 EP skeletons while doing trials.



sheep song IS light-based. I've slept many many dark based mobs w/ it.....
It is quite effective against them.

Even if it was straight out resisted by ep skeletons... your 1 example would not be any bases for sheep song being dark based...

[Theomega]

So that's where the Scorpion or Ruszor will go!

God I hope not. If they are going to put a Guttler specific pet out I would hope it is a Roc type mob at least that would fit with the history of the weapon.

[Mavrick]

sheep song IS light-based. I've slept many many dark based mobs w/ it.....
It is quite effective against them.

Even if it was straight out resisted by ep skeletons... your 1 example would not be any bases for sheep song being dark based...

I do not know which mob you did your test on. But like I said, I used sheep song on a group of "SIX" ep skeletons and they all evaded. Just to be certain I went to Xaracard and grouped up 10 "Too Weak" Skeletons and Sheep Song'd all of them THREE times and this is how my log reads.

NurseryNazuna uses Sheep Song but misses the Lost Soul.
The Lost Soul evades.
The Lost Soul evades.
The Lost Soul evades.
The Lost Soul evades.
The Lost Soul evades.
The Lost Soul evades.
The Lost Soul evades.
The Lost Soul evades.

Next Stop: Sky

Engaged Light Elemental, Used Sheep Song...
NurseryNazuna uses Sheep Song.
The Light Elemental is asleep.

Engaged Dark Elemental, Used Sheep Song.
NurseryNazuna uses Sheep Song but misses the Dark Elemental.


Now its possible that all 10 "Too Weak" skeletons resisted my 3 attempts at Sheep Song every time.... but there is no way you can dispute sheep song landing on a EP Light Elemental but missing a EP Dark Elemental... I can only conclude that Sheep's version of Sheep Song is (most likely) dark based and you were only eye-balling your results and going on the assumption (as did I and many others) because BLU's version happens to be Light Based.

[xbobx]

Are you serious? Have you never played RNG before?

95 leveled ranger, and I think the price of ammo is a series problem in the game also. In fact I would like to seem ranger ammo taken out of the game and ammo damage is added to your bow based on your level. They destroyed the ammo market. Just take it out.

[Sparthos]

Did you even read the posts?

Theres quite a few people complaining about how awful the Frog pet is. What I'm saying is we knew it was going to be awful from the beginning... They spelled out that he'd be a useless cheap jug pet

It's really a double whammy since not only are the new jugs crippled but they throw in an absolutely worthless pet absolutely free. The bad news of crippling the jugs is only compounded by further explaining the need for this forced mascot that no one will reasonably use outside a one time 'lulz' event.

BST has fundamental issues at endgame that have yet to be addressed however if SE believes that Sleepga/Paralyga/Dispelga are overpowered then the class is lost.

MNK pets suck which means that Apkallu will most likely never see the light of day, Hippogryph is Yuly clone and Adamantoise might be a decent tank... on EPs.

[xbobx]

They only threw the toad jug in there because of the voting screwup. They somehow thought that would make us happy. They prove they don't give a crap about anyone but what the JP say, we catch them on it, they give us a toad.

all better.

[Rubicant82]

It is my humble opinion that a Beast Pet should be able to use ANY MOVE that the mob itself can use with the same modifiers of the appropriate level. It is absolutely offensive to players for the dev team to tell us "we thinks that this is overpowered so we are not going to give the players (you know the people who PLAY THE GAME AND PAY FOR IT) what you want because we think it is bad"

ummm... do any of the dev team understand what customer service is?

Deny your customers what they want and they will find it somewhere else.

[SpankWustler]

Having come to terms with the existence of the weird jug pet pricing analogy, I decided to read the rest of the development team's thoughts.


With that said, we believe it would be too overpowered for it to have Yawn and Frigid Shuffle.

I don't understand how "360 degree gaze" versions of abilities two of our jug pets already have in normal Area of Effect form (Nursery Nazuna's Sheep Song and Gorefang Hobs's Roar, respectively) would be overpowered abilities for a new jug pet. How cheap is this thing planned to be such that it will be so awful? Is the Apkallu's jug going to be crafted using partly chewed bubblegum and dirty tufts of Galkan back hair found in the streets of Bastok after a mid-summer molt?


Back Heel requires one charge, Fantod requires two.
We felt Nihility Song was a bit overpowered, so we removed it. Apologies!
Jettatura completely ignores resists currently, so we are planning to adjust this. There is also a chance that we remove it completely.

Making Nihility Song a single target dispel that removes one buff wasn't an option? Making Nihility Song require three charges wasn't an option? Really? Please adjust Jettatura rather than simply removing it. Please.


We are planning to make a couple adjustments and we’re also thinking about strengthening Aqua Breath.

I'm glad to hear that Aqua Breath may be strengthened. At this point, it doesn't make sense for the version used by monsters to be capped at 400 either. Four-hundred damage isn't that much nowadays.

[Faithful]

The people running this game really do have no clue it seems. I've never before considered quitting this game as much as I have in the past couple months. Level 99 was a chance to fix a ton of issues with some of the less popular jobs, but from the sounds of things bst are going to be in the same boat at 99 that they were in at 75. I fun job for few but shunned by the masses. That's not really the way an mmo should be.

[Luvbunny]

This just convinced me that the developer really does not play this game enough to remotely even understand what the players want from them. They read this forum, we gave them feedback, and yet, they choose to ignore or do nothing about it. This new info on the beast pets are just downright, how to say it politely, stupid. They keep saying they don't have enough manpower to do "Actual Much Needed" adjustments, but yet have plenty of time to create useless jugs pets, with useless abilities. Jug pets should be reasonably CHEAP, not free, but not over 80k a stack either. Why not try to ADJUST this??????

Speaking of adjustment, the developer are notoriously known for having a massive utter hate and ignorance toward pet based jobs (PUP won the lottery - and Pld, Drk, Drg, Smn, Rdm just kept being ignored, and dumbed down further and further).

[Olor]

"Cheaper than Yuly" is an insult when we are telling you guys that the Apkullu is useless.

[xbobx]

"They keep saying they don't have enough manpower to do"'

This always cracks me up. Hello, it seems you decided to cut your support for this game drastically and you are stupid enough to admit it, but somehow I don't see my monthly subscription be cut proportionately.

Either support this game like you did before or cut the price, there is no discussion to be had here. We FFXI players are not willing to fund your FF14 failure. I hope I am speaking for everyone. I just love how we enabled FF14 to be free all this time for those 32 people that play it.

but thanks for the Toad. I am sure we will enjoy never using it.

[Glamdring]

Just wanted to pass along some additional information on the new familiars.



As we have mentioned previously, when considering that this pet is supposed to just be a mascot-type pet, it’s planned to be the cheapest of all familiars. Following this, we feel like the current stats are not really appropriate.



We are planning to make this a pet that is easy to obtain and will be balancing its power accordingly (Planning to make it cheaper than Yuly).

With that said, we believe it would be too overpowered for it to have Yawn and Frigid Shuffle.



Back Heel requires one charge, Fantod requires two.
We felt Nihility Song was a bit overpowered, so we removed it. Apologies!
Jettatura completely ignores resists currently, so we are planning to adjust this. There is also a chance that we remove it completely.



We are planning to make a couple adjustments and we’re also thinking about strengthening Aqua Breath.

Hate to say I told ya so about dumming down the jugs so I'll just let Camate do it for me...

[Glamdring]

It is my humble opinion that a Beast Pet should be able to use ANY MOVE that the mob itself can use with the same modifiers of the appropriate level. It is absolutely offensive to players for the dev team to tell us "we thinks that this is overpowered so we are not going to give the players (you know the people who PLAY THE GAME AND PAY FOR IT) what you want because we think it is bad"

ummm... do any of the dev team understand what customer service is?

Deny your customers what they want and they will find it somewhere else.

You damn skippy, been wanting baleful gaze on my lizards since day 1

[Luvbunny]

Ah the best way to show support is not supporting FF14 and don't bother to subscribe to it. Let it go down to history as one of their biggest blunders ever :) As a company, it is quite surprising to see how they intend to kill their cash cow and keep insisting to save the Titanic that is sinking deep into the ocean...

[Jeubond]

I'm sure that SE don't really ever intend to let FFXI die completely, they must be aware that for many of us FFXI is where our hearts and minds are and if they don't then they need to wake up and smell the roses !
To release a newer version of FF online [I cannot bring myself to mutter it's name . . . ] and have it only playable on computer whilst expecting any PS3/XBox console owners to wait another year before they play it is in business terms sheer stupidity. [had it been available to play at the same time across all fields might have enticed me away from FFXI but not now]

However I digress, I can only agree with some of the above posts and feel like many that while we have not had our main JA's actually stolen from us they are only usable if lucky, on a part-time basis only.
Sure there are times when they can come in handy but how I miss the days of fighting T/VT's or nm's and praying that my next Charm wouldn't backfire.
Having said that would it not have been possible to have added some of the better aspects of jugs to charmed pets too and beef up some of the old Bst spots for us to play around in and that way placate some of us ? I refer of course to giving charmed pets the tp abilites for each type as opposed to Sic which for me never gave the result either expected or wanted.
There are other JA's it would have been nice to see carried over but no point in wasting time or space moaning, I'm sure SE do listen but how committed they are to keeping FFXI alive is an unknown factor at this time.
Be nice to hear how long they intend to keep it alive and any future plans if possible with a guarantee to boot.

[deces]

I'm wondering why only one of our pets had a custom skin after all this time. I think it is patetic how much effort SE puts into the looks of our jugs, and NM for that matter.

[Zaknafein]

Wow.... Rewind a couple months, and everyone was excited. A chance to add our support in the process of choosing a new jug pet. <Thinks to self> "Wow SE seems to be listening to us more lately. They seem to be taking a genuine interest in the game as a whole, and what we want out of it."

Then came the vote debacle.... and the subsequent no explanation.. just ignore everyone routine..

Now this info on the jugs we ARE getting... quite disappointing.

I never had any intention of leaving for 14 even if it had a solid launch...which it didn't obviously.

I had no interest in starting over from scratch after 8 years.

Someone in upper management at SE needs to understand that 11 is in desperate need of additional development staff. I get it. The game is 10 years old. However, the amount of work the small dev team is being asked to cope with is unacceptable.

I appreciate the work being done to old content. I like old content. I like VW also, but lets be real. After doing each VW fight a few times it becomes work. Mainly because the drop rates are laughable, and someone's mule gets the rare piece of gear three fights in a row.

The game is MISSING the "competitive edge" That is what allowed HNM to be entertaining for so long. The fights were repetitive. They were simple, but you got to compete. Searching for DI/SW was fun against rival LS's. Reintroduce some 99 HNM's. Revamp, and centralize PvP in a hub area *cough* White Gate *cough* . It will PAY DIVIDENDS. We're in desperate need of a break from the relentless grinding of AF3, Empies, VW, WOE.. grind grind grind I say!

If SE is pennywise, and pound foolish they will have two problems. FF14 is busted, and never going to be what they had hoped for b4 launch no matter what is done to it. If 11 doesn't get some serious attention it will continue to dwindle away (unnecessarily) to the point where it is not worth updating.

For the people on the fence about staying with 11 because they are no longer enjoying themselves. How many do you think will transition to 14 after they have seen what's become of it's predecessor? "Hmmm.. should I invest my time into a failed launch shaky product thats manufacturer has a track record of ceasing to care about their MMO's after 8 or so years?"

[ShadowHeart]

ya good old courier carrie is cheaper then dipper but i still wont use it LOL!!
dipper has th3 and high evasion = more pet survivability and with th a little extra farming useage.
they made the chigoes easier to attain then it would make the prices viable....
but only one pet for level 96+ really sucks :s but being a beast for so many years now i am not shocked lets hope new zones / areas allow taming again at least. I miss the charm throw run release charm panic.... where is the zoneeeee LOL

[Rukkirii]

Greetings and thank you for your patience! We received some information regarding your feedback that is being discussed here, so I wanted to make sure you all saw it.





The frog pet will be useless for damage. If it’s a mascot pet, it should be able to be called in town.

The intention of adding the toad to beastmaster’s pet array was to include a fun, mascot-type pet that you could walk around with. Due to this, its fighting proficiency has been set low.
I understand everyone’s requests to make it possible to call this pet in towns, but currently if it is not a specially created battle area, such as Al Zhabi, it is not possible for monsters to enter. In the case that we allowed players to summon their pets within towns, the number of characters in these areas would increase significantly and would exacerbate congestion problems, similar to what Port Jeuno has been experiencing. For this reason, calling pets within towns is not easy and we appreciate your understanding on this.



Why can’t Apkallu receive Yawn when Nazuna has Sheep Song and doesn't require having a player face it in order to use? Also, why is Frigid Shuffle considered overpowered when there are other classes and pets that can use Paralyze (Soporific).

We decided to cut the abilities that inflict status ailments to enemies due to the fact that we have armed Apkallu with high HP, Subtle Blow, Counter, Store TP, and a special form of attacking.
If you are looking to paralyze your opponent, please consider using the Coeurl familiar. (The Dev. Team would like beastmasters to select their pets based on the situation and battle strategy.)



Why is Nihility Song considered overpowered when PUP automatons have a Dispel attachment, which does not cost TP and has no Ready timer. I am upset that Jetattura is being removed. I do not feel that these abilities are overpowered and wish the Dev. team would just adjust the abilities instead.


The opinion that these abilities are not overpowered is a subjective take on the situation. In order for the Dev. Team to look into this they would like more specific evidence. The reasoning behind calling it overpowered is because Hippogryphs are already armed with a high rate of evasion, triple attack, and very powerful special attacks. Adding abilities that inflict Dispel and Terror would make them too powerful.

In the case you would like to use Dispel, we recommended using the Eft familiar.



I’d like the Adamantoise pet to have Headbutt to help with being a tanking pet, since it seems like that is this pet's purpose.


We are planning to adjust Adamantoise a bit more. Though we will not be adding Head Butt, we are looking to increase the power of Aqua Breath a bit.



Since there is only one level 96+ jug pet scheduled for implementation, does that mean we will be able to tame and charm pets in upcoming content?

As written in the job adjustment manifesto, the focus of adjustments currently will revolve around familiar pets.

[Helel]

I don't play BST at all, but I'm just curious... what is the point of the JA Charm? Seems like it's more useful as a dynamis proc than an actual useful ability (in and of itself).

[Vold]

I don't play BST at all, but I'm just curious... what is the point of the JA Charm? Seems like it's more useful as a dynamis proc than an actual useful ability (in and of itself).Back before Abyssea and the level cap raise Beastmasters would use charmed pets for exp because call beasts were extremely weak in comparison. It also made financial sense when you never really needed to cure charmed pets. BST charming is a lost art. But I don't see many people missing it with all the short comings of it these days with how well off call beasts are now.

[Koroma]

I don't play BST at all, but I'm just curious... what is the point of the JA Charm? Seems like it's more useful as a dynamis proc than an actual useful ability (in and of itself).

Cant help but reply to such a comment lol.

charm is bst main ability always has been, taking charm away from bst for abyessa was like taking cure away from whm, but it seems acording to Rukkirii not only will they not fix this massive bug but it will be the status quo for future content.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Back before Abyssea and the level cap raise Beastmasters would use charmed pets for exp because call beasts were extremely weak in comparison. It also made financial sense when you never really needed to cure charmed pets. BST charming is a lost art. But I don't see many people missing it with all the short comings of it these days with how well off call beasts are now.Actualy, HQ tigers made exelent pt DD through the 60s.

[Alhanelem]

(The Dev. Team would like beastmasters to select their pets based on the situation and battle strategy.)Then the dev team should do something to make it a little easier to go between different pets..


but it seems acording to Rukkirii not only will they not fix this massive bug but it will be the status quo for future content. It's not a "massive bug"; it's an intentional design shift for the job. It also allows them to give you types of pets that wouldn't have been given in the past.

[SpankWustler]

While I still think the Development Bros' logic is a bit loopy when it comes to balancing some things, I appreciate that somebody took the time to explain the thought that went into things. Thanks for that.

For Ready commands in general, I have to wonder if the Development Bros realize how little value Ready commands that only do damage have for most if not all players. Compared to all but the worst players, Beastmaster pets gain TP slowly and their damaging Ready moves are not very...well...damaging. As of such, Ready moves are generally used for strategic purposes.

This makes me very curious about the Hippogryph's "very powerful special attacks". I want to believe that Fantod can actually make it kick someone's face in with the next TP move used, but I have this nagging feeling it's just a matter of the Development Bros and myself having drastically different ideas about the meanings of "very powerful" and "special" and maybe even "attacks".

If the Development Bros are inclined to defend their decisions like this, though, I'm willing to have faith.

[Areola]

I wish the Dev team would just tell us what direction there trying to take with the job. If they did that maybe we could start to understand why there making all of these seemingly stupid decisions*cough*cloudsplitter*cough*.

The job is just a mish mash of randomness, its a below average dd its not a very good tank and its support abilities are based off pet TP and ready timers(witch is a joke). Yes bst can do a lot of stuff but it doesn't do any of it well.

All these updates and all this dev team "too powerful" crap is kinda making me want to stop playing bst. Its all just BS thrown in a blender and served to us in jugs.

[Xilk]

Thanks Rukkirii,
This is a really helpful update.

This makes me alot more curious to look at the apkallu again. StoreTP ? I'm going to have to see how spur affects apkallu differently than other pets.

I should have noticed the store tp before really. That IS interesting for a mnk typ to have. I did note in our ZAM testing thread that apkallu is getting 6.2 tp/hit, which is more than you would expect from a mnk. Normally a mnk would be 4.8/hit.
About a 30% increase... so its like it already has store tp 5. Wow. last I saw spur w/ ferine feet made that same boost. I hope it stacks... but either way, its the sam level of store tp on a mnk pet... What else is in this "special way of attacking I wonder".

You've piqued my curiosity some more ^.^

The triple attack from Hippogryph is much more obvious than Yuly. I guess I should test more specifically. There was some theory that ladybug only have the triple attack during daytime. I never confirmed that. However, the hippo dd and movement speed are points where it exceeds Yuly.

with the focus on familairs, I would REALLY like shorter call beast in many situations. Not for the tanking so much as the abilities.

[Zaknafein]

Certainly keeping my fingers crossed that the new merit axe skill will exceed rampage. Cloudsplitter was such a kick in the nuts w/o a brew active it would be nice to spam a new sexy multihit crit WS for bst. It's what I want for christmas.

[xbobx]

I tried the new ws on my ranger and it did 1300, that was no food, not in abyessa with no real DD equipment. Someone was testing on bst in dynamis and was doing over 2-2.5k with it.

So that will make a huge difference.

[Mavrick]

We decided to cut the abilities that inflict status ailments to enemies due to the fact that we have armed Apkallu with high HP, Subtle Blow, Counter, Store TP, and a special form of attacking.
If you are looking to paralyze your opponent, please consider using the Coeurl familiar. (The Dev. Team would like beastmasters to select their pets based on the situation and battle strategy.)


Well it looks like (from the developer's point of view) that the aim for the Apkallu is to be a tanking pet (.... yet another useless tanking pet......). In Abyssea any pet can tank with atma buff and provide far more DD capabilities that you get with the bird, not to mention powerful enfeebling abilites and/or self buffing abilities. The Sheep can full time Berserk with a 25%~50% cut to defense, very low evasion, 0% guard, 0% counter and still full time tank a large majority of NM's in abyssea all while under 50% HP. Why should I use Apkallu? Even when he gets 3 attacks in, (kick attack?) its still only a fraction of the damage from sheep/rabbit/Tiger and they can all tank just as well. Counter/Guard does not seem to activate anywhere near enough for you to be able to switch out defensive atmas for offensive ones on powerful enemies, and it certainly does not make up for the horribly low damage output and lack of useful TP abilities. I fail to see why BST would want to use this pet over any of our other pets... Dragonfly, Lizards, eft can all tank and deal better damage yet you don't even see BST walking around with those pets ... There is a reason why we start fights off with our strongest DD pets and then switch to Dipper at the last 1~3%. The only reason to start a battle off with a weak pet is for elemental resistances. Apkallu resist water... just like Turtle, Fungar, Slug, Leech... all of which are superior DD pets with superior TP Abilities and/or have resistances to multiple elements.

The developers have stated on multiple occasions that they are focusing on voidwatch content and moving away from abyssea and they want BST to be more party oriented. So I'm a little puzzled that we are still getting tanking pets which are now overkill in abyssea at 99 and are only useful for lv 75 content... Is there no attempt to make BST useful outside of Abyssea and lv 75 content areas? Vs strong enemies, lack of useful TP abilites or any special/unique characteristics means our pets simply auto-attack and die.

With full -DT atmacites Turtle was the only pet that had any staying power against VW foes the likes of Akvan, Pil and kaggen. Of course, any non-water/Earth based magical attack would drop his HP like a 2-ton brick, but as far as phsyical attacks are concerned he handled them pretty well and he would usually survive 3~4 mins provided you spam the hell out of dawns, rewards and healing salves. After seeing the newly updated Aqua breath doing ~1100 damage at full HP to EP foes I was excited to see how it would do against high level foes. Unfortunately, after multiple attempts at or close to full HP, aqua breath was only doing ~50 damage to VW NMs. 3 mins recast for 50 damage, this level of crap can only be expected from BSTs..., Tortoise Stomp missed in 5/5 attempts so I just stopped caring.

Apkallu on the other hand was taking 200~+300 from normal strikes, counter/guard may as well not exist and he was hitting for a wonderful 10-35 damage, went down pretty fast even with his ~+5900 HP. Hippo? evasion had very little (if any) effect and he took just as much damage, and lasted only slightly longer than Apkallu... None of my pets could put a dent into these NM's. Now obviously jug pets aren't meant to tank VW nor deal any respectable amount of damage, but I have to ask the developers, with the current tools (or lack there of) available to BST, exactly what roles do they expect BST to play at 99? Are we to expect the same level of performance from "The Last Stand" and the dungeon crawls contents that were mentioned for 99? Or are we simply only expected to soloing abyssea, dynamis and other level 75 content? Does the development team actually test these jugs against high level enemies? or do they simply walk into W.Sarutabaruta and do all there testings there? I find it hard to believe that anyone on the development team would bring BST jugs into a serious fight and come out saying that the abilities are too powerful so I can only assume that all BST testing is done on level 0 mobs.

[Sparthos]

Id love for the dev team to respond to the above post.

[Xilk]

I bet we can find a situation where apkallu is just perfect pet for bst to use.

[Yinnyth]

We decided to cut the abilities that inflict status ailments to enemies due to the fact that we have armed Apkallu with high HP, Subtle Blow, Counter, Store TP, and a special form of attacking.

Special form of attacking? You mean like permanent formless strikes? Piercing-type damage? It just looks cute because it's a freaking penguin slapping a dragon?

Dev/community rep ambiguity when addressing the players has always been a large source of frustration, and now that there are players who actually work as testers, it just seems counter-productive. The most common form of it being "X has been adjusted." leaving us to wonder if it got buffed, nerfed, or side-graded (given a different tactical advantage). It makes me wonder if SE talks like that around the office.

"Hey, Bob, company policy has been adjusted."
"So we get the longer lunch breaks we've been asking for?"
"..."
"...no? Urm... new TPS report coverletters?"
"..."
".......am I fired?"
"..."
"Well, I'll test that by seeing if I get a paycheck next month."
"..."

[Glamdring]

1st off, i don't see were people are seeing tanking on the penguin from the mod's post. I see a DD pet, of the monk variety. Maybe one that hits harder than the mandy, our current mnk pet, and hopefully counters a bit better.

Personally, I've always used the jugs situationally, I just plan my situations around a 2 hour pet. I must be the only one out there that still pays attention to intimidation too, because I am VERY happy to get a bird; not happy that it seems like such a pathetic pet considering what it has the potential to be, but happy we at least HAVE one...

As to the charm comments, apparently I'm the only bst on any server that plays outside Aby because I use it all the time. I love GoV and find charmed pets leave me with 0 down-time. they also work just as well, if not better, than jugs because their TP abilities actually accomplish something. I also like not being forced to break out my wallet to play.

As to pets being made for tanking and bst being party friendly... how? Our pets are less effective than a pld holding hate as the game is currently played and I can pull hate off a pld with my brd/whm and a staff. Every party I go to now my bst is relegated to DD, and of course a damage soak for "Needles" type of attacks. If you want my pet to tank then the penguin MUST get yawn, and it needs to work on the party. Sorry, I see us still being awesome for solo on most non-magical mobs but only mediocre for parties.

[Glamdring]

Ah the best way to show support is not supporting FF14 and don't bother to subscribe to it. Let it go down to history as one of their biggest blunders ever :) As a company, it is quite surprising to see how they intend to kill their cash cow and keep insisting to save the Titanic that is sinking deep into the ocean...

the problem is that it's 11 we've got a problem with this time. And I deleted my 14 char after a week and won't give them another chance at my wallet. Just bad design, from initial concept all the way thru implementation. I'll take 11 any day over it, but that doesn't mean I'll let stupidity pass just because it's in the game that i actually LIKE.

[Xilk]

bst in party situations? well the only abilities that stick out to me are Gerard's tp moves. Corrosive ooze is 33% attack and def down on the mob. These are huge boons to the whole party. Blu's are happy to get the -33% def debuff in a new spell.

Purulent ooze for the first 10% of NM's life is quite nice for a party also. They are rather unique abilities that bst can bring to the table. BSt used to be uniquely capable for crowd control... but that was around charm.. and not very practical now.

I can't think of any other bst abilities that are particularly good for a party.... Killer Instinct... but thats been there for awhile.

Also, don't forget that hippogryph is also an avian... and its a sweet dd pet.

[Yinnyth]

BSt used to be uniquely capable for crowd control... but that was around charm.. and not very practical now.

I would personally like to see charm come back into vogue for new events, and I would like to see it retro-actively added to old events. Granted, I don't play bst, but I'm observant enough to know they've been getting the shaft for a while. I remember the first time I entered Abyssea and was exploring, my first major thought was literally "Finally an endgame event where BSTs actually have mobs to charm." because I saw tigers and sheep and bunnies. Silly me.

The whole idea of entire families and zones of enemies being immune to charm is even more stupid than the idea of zones classified as "dungeons" being immune to chocobo mazurka. Granted, there are many mobs in the game which should be completely immune to charm. NMs? Sure. But EVERY GOOBBUE IN THE GAME? What was the reasoning behind that? And enemies charm players, so storyline-wise, it is clearly possible for beings of sufficient sentience to be charmed, so why are all beastmen outright immune? It should be examined as a matter of balance, not a matter of precident.

[Xilk]

OR, if the beastmaster type mobs are immune to charm... why can't player beastmasters be immune to charm? :P

[Xilk]

I"ve been toying w/ apkallu. Does good damage... but really can't figure what the "special way of attacking" is...

[Olor]

Apkallu on the other hand was taking 200~+300 from normal strikes, counter/guard may as well not exist and he was hitting for a wonderful 10-35 damage, went down pretty fast even with his ~+5900 HP. Hippo? evasion had very little (if any) effect and he took just as much damage, and lasted only slightly longer than Apkallu... None of my pets could put a dent into these NM's. Now obviously jug pets aren't meant to tank VW nor deal any respectable amount of damage, but I have to ask the developers, with the current tools (or lack there of) available to BST, exactly what roles do they expect BST to play at 99? Are we to expect the same level of performance from "The Last Stand" and the dungeon crawls contents that were mentioned for 99? Or are we simply only expected to soloing abyssea, dynamis and other level 75 content? Does the development team actually test these jugs against high level enemies? or do they simply walk into W.Sarutabaruta and do all there testings there? I find it hard to believe that anyone on the development team would bring BST jugs into a serious fight and come out saying that the abilities are too powerful so I can only assume that all BST testing is done on level 0 mobs.

I'd really like an answer on this, cause frankly if my BST is going to forever be useless to my LS and my parties, I might just have to retire it. It's nice to be able to solo monsters - but people on NIN and DNC and THF can often solo most of the same stuff AND they are useful and desired for group content.

Honestly, I'm so dissapointed with how BST is being left to rot. I mean, I totally get PUP needed its PUPdate, but BST is really no better off than PUP when it comes to being wanted in group activities - and it has a lot of versatility where BST is lacking (being able to do magic damage).

If the Devs expect us to get invites to parties so we can use 1 debuff every five minutes, they need to stop plugging their ears and listen to the playerbase.

Either stop nerfing or removing most of the abilities from our pets, or if we are expected to constantly switch pets - lower the call beast timer and reduce the cost of jugs

[Glamdring]

bst in party situations? well the only abilities that stick out to me are Gerard's tp moves. Corrosive ooze is 33% attack and def down on the mob. These are huge boons to the whole party. Blu's are happy to get the -33% def debuff in a new spell.

Purulent ooze for the first 10% of NM's life is quite nice for a party also. They are rather unique abilities that bst can bring to the table. BSt used to be uniquely capable for crowd control... but that was around charm.. and not very practical now.

I can't think of any other bst abilities that are particularly good for a party.... Killer Instinct... but thats been there for awhile.

Also, don't forget that hippogryph is also an avian... and its a sweet dd pet.

Xilk, I never said we were useless in parties, just mediocre. that means we get a DD slot so we're competing for that slot with all of the other DD out there that are not "must-haves" for whatever the event in question is. We'll also be passed over for other jobs that are preceived as better for that event.

I was using my bst in Aby shell to tank mobs and letting the rest of the LS work procs, but that doesn't work since we went to 95, because the proccers are pulling too much hate for my pet to consistently get it back in a hurry. The same issue happens in any other party. Yes, there are some things my pet brings to the table in other events, but mostly it's the ridiculous amount of time it takes my pet to die with the HP pool from hell coupled with my -pet pdt set. Given that damage mitigation can also be accomplished by just killing the mob faster and I just believe other Dd are gonna get the nod... unless the guy building the party is a fan of beast.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I was using my bst in Aby shell to tank mobs and letting the rest of the LS work procs, but that doesn't work since we went to 95, because the proccers are pulling too much hate for my pet to consistently get it back in a hurry.This is the fault of the proc'ers, not your pet. It's liek the blm that can't furgure out he's there to yellow stuff, not kill stuff. So he ends up using inane nuking atmas and you have to wait 6 hours for him to get MP back because he can't land a freeze right. The same aplies to the "DDs." If they're there to proc, they should be using atmas to proc and there for not pulling an unessicary amount of hate.(I.e. DON'T TP ON THE PROC MOB!)

[deces]

This is the fault of the proc'ers, not your pet. It's liek the blm that can't furgure out he's there to yellow stuff, not kill stuff. So he ends up using inane nuking atmas and you have to wait 6 hours for him to get MP back because he can't land a freeze right. The same aplies to the "DDs." If they're there to proc, they should be using atmas to proc and there for not pulling an unessicary amount of hate.(I.e. DON'T TP ON THE PROC MOB!)
You need to go learn how to spell.

[Mavrick]

Yeah i forgot about the slug. He is truly in a league all on his own. We may have lost our edge with corrosive ooze now that Blu's also gain def-33% enfeeble, but Slug is still pretty useful in serious fights. He is actually more durable than the turtle due to his moderately high defense and ridiculous magic resistance. Pity we don't have more pets like him.




BSt used to be uniquely capable for crowd control... but that was around charm.. and not very practical now.
I would personally like to see charm come back into vogue for new events, and I would like to see it retro-actively added to old events. Granted, I don't play bst, but I'm observant enough to know they've been getting the shaft for a while. I remember the first time I entered Abyssea and was exploring, my first major thought was literally "Finally an endgame event where BSTs actually have mobs to charm." because I saw tigers and sheep and bunnies. Silly me.

The whole idea of entire families and zones of enemies being immune to charm is even more stupid than the idea of zones classified as "dungeons" being immune to chocobo mazurka. Granted, there are many mobs in the game which should be completely immune to charm. NMs? Sure. But EVERY GOOBBUE IN THE GAME? What was the reasoning behind that? And enemies charm players, so storyline-wise, it is clearly possible for beings of sufficient sentience to be charmed, so why are all beastmen outright immune? It should be examined as a matter of balance, not a matter of precident.

Well in order for crowd control to work, SE would have to encourage people to charm adds, instead of simply sleeping them, killing, or holding them in some far off distance. I've already toughed on this, but imagine fighting a mega boss NM that suddenly pops a "substantially weak" tiger NM that is charm-able. That's pretty much an instant win for BST, get a little more creative and give him some useful unique TP abilites and/or potent aoe-aura effects and your certain to see charm/guage/tame become useful again. SE is just being lazy, the BCNMs "Come into my parlor" and "Wings of Fury" are great examples of how charm can play a strategic role in serious battle content. There are a lot of things they could do with charmed pets, unlike jugs, you don't have to worry about a powerful charm pet breaking game balance in another zone/content area.

[Vagrua]

The intention of adding the toad to beastmaster’s pet array was to include a fun, mascot-type pet that you could walk around with. Due to this, its fighting proficiency has been set low.

I don't see this pet ever being used if it has no special abilities or fighting proficiency. Why not just make it a regular pet over a mascot? (The mascot dresspheres in ffx-2 were at least useful.)



Adding abilities that inflict Dispel and Terror would make them too powerful.

One terror every 2-3 minutes for 1-5 seconds is overpowered assuming it's not resisted?




I can't think of any other bst abilities that are particularly good for a party.... Killer Instinct... but thats been there for awhile.


Feral Howl is actually a nice stun move for party situations such as when a doll is about to explode. It just sucks that it doesn't work on anything higher than EXP mobs.

[SpankWustler]

I"ve been toying w/ apkallu. Does good damage... but really can't figure what the "special way of attacking" is...

I'm confident the phrase "special way of attacking" is just vague language obscuring something obvious. It's a long-time favorite of people working on FFXI.

I'd bet my favorite eyeball that the phrase just means "The apkallu punches like a Monk. Punch punch!"

[Xilk]

I've been toying w/ apkallu more on test server. Beak Lunge and wing slap are so completely lackluster that there is no point in the store tp trait. I mean sneaking in a sam level store tp trait on mnk pet is kinda interesting... but then you remove anything it would be good for. The damage for the 2x ready moves are not noticeably better than normal hits... they probably will be a bit better on something w/ high def... but I don't want a mnk jug on a high def mob in the first place.

The apkallu is a good mnk dd type, otherwise.. it hits fast and frequently (h2h & 'beak attacks'" but really what is the point in store tp when the ready moves are so useless... 2 charges for stun, 1 charge for big knock-back. well, I guess you can keep a macro for the knockback as a spell interruptor... and it might be semi reliable if you aren't using /dnc for stun.. I'd rather lose the store tp and get some more useful ready moves. The store tp is a waste as it is. Otherwise, beaklunge and wing slap should get a boost.

There might be other bonuses hidden in there... but if so, they are hidden so well, they may as well not even exist.

[Rukkirii]

Why is the development team heading in the direction where BST only use jug pets?


Recent content contains a lot of areas with monsters that cannot be charmed as well as confrontations where summoned pets will be dismissed upon entry. Since it would be difficult for beastmasters to perform with only their Charm ability, we wanted to make adjustments to add familiars and make it so they can select their pets based on the situation.

Of course, you will still be able to use monsters that were charmable up to now since they are still roaming the lands of Vana'diel.



Can the devs. make it easier to change between different pets?


Making it easier to change pets means a reduction in the call beast ability's duration, so this would be a difficult problem.

From the beginning, familiar pets have had strong attacks and durability, so being able to constantly summon these pets would make it so a variety of monsters could be defeated with only a pet. Also, depending on the situation, if beastmasters were able to constantly change pets, it would make it possible for them to do everything.




We would like more damage dealing pets, instead of tanking pets, so that they can be more useful in parties.



When adding new pets, we design them by adding a special feature to them such as high attack or high defense. In the future we will be adding more pets, and among these new ones there will be an opportunity to introduce some strong attacking pets.

[Dreamin]

So you limited us to only Jug Pets but not willing to give us a faster call timer. So basically you're telling the BST community to go and play a different job.

If the Jug is all we can use in all 'RECENT CONTENTS', then you need to be sensitive to the fact that our call beast timer is limiting us to the point where we basically cannot use BST as a job in these contents.

[Luvbunny]

This is just laughable - they could make BST shines and better, but they refuse due some "content balancing" issue. Reducing the call timer to 3 mnts won't break the game, summoner can call pet every one minutes, and poor puppetmaster and dragoon have a much longer timer and have to just deal with it. Yes we want beastmaster to be able to do everything, it is time for them to shine for once.

[Olor]

Hi Rukkirii, first of all, I appreciate the answers you're giving us, but Dreamin has it correct - you can't have it both ways - where you say "oh if you want that ability use this pet!" but then make the call beast timer so limited that we can't switch pets in a reasonable fashion. No other job is limited to 2 or 3 abilities at a time (and at any time at least 2 of them suck completely)

Have you guys actually used these ready abilities? Most of them suck. Then you take all the good monster skills off jugs, and make most of the reasonably decent ready abilities cost 3 charges. It is infuriating. I hate to break it to you, but a move which costs TP, and is on a timer needs to do more than 10 extra damage to not suck. Most ready abilities do less damage than a critical hit. I don't think anyone really uses most of the ones that don't have debuffs. I sure as heck don't.

And in content like WoE - it costs SO MUCH MONEY to be a bst. Just ridiculous amounts - the biggest reason being that pet food is disgustingly expensive, and if you don't use it every time the timer is up, your pet dies and you can do NOTHING for 1-2 minutes.

If you want BST to get invited to groups you can't have them standing around doing nothing for 1-2 minutes because their pet died. You don't limit summoner to 1 pet every 5 minutes - and with all the -perp gear (nevermind in abyssea) MP is not very limiting - and PUP can get their pet every minute - so why the long cool down on call beast? It isn't reasonable - especially with things like those birds in WOE flux 9 that do a max HP down effect and kill your pet in like two hits. It really sucks to spend 30K per run and get nothing but logs and ingots as a reward 95% of the time.

I don't see how it is balanced to make a BST pay 5K+ to buy the pet that can paralyze, make them get at least 100 tp to do it, and then restrict them from using any other pet skill for minutes at a time.

If RDM doesn't get invited for Paralyze that is not on a ridiculous recast timer and doesn't require feeding the boss TP, (AND THEY CAN BUFF AND USE OTHER DEBUFFS) why the heck would anyone invite a BST to their party when they are less useful?

[Dreamin]

This is just laughable - they could make BST shines and better, but they refuse due some "content balancing" issue. Reducing the call timer to 3 mnts won't break the game, summoner can call pet every one minutes, and poor puppetmaster and dragoon have a much longer timer and have to just deal with it. Yes we want beastmaster to be able to do everything, it is time for them to shine for once.

Just to correct here, there's no timer limit on how fast you can call another 'pet' for SMN. You can immediate release and summon a different avatar. Or any other spirit. And even if you insists on resummoning the same Avatar, there's only a 30s recast for any of them. [For those that are not familiar with SMN, all pets are summon as magic and the only timer associated with those are magic cast and recast timer and not JA timer].

[Olor]

This is just laughable - they could make BST shines and better, but they refuse due some "content balancing" issue. Reducing the call timer to 3 mnts won't break the game, summoner can call pet every one minutes, and poor puppetmaster and dragoon have a much longer timer and have to just deal with it. Yes we want beastmaster to be able to do everything, it is time for them to shine for once.

Deus Ex Automata allows you to call your auto. It has a 1 minute cool down. Although the pet will start with almost no HP unless they were at full when you dismissed them - autos can also heal themselves pretty much infinitely with no pet food required and PUP gets oils as well. Our only pet that can heal itself is hard-capped healing (based on LL's HP) once every 3 minutes.

[Xilk]

Thanx again Rukkirii chan.

Thank you for addressing these concerns in the bst community. Its fantastic to hear that this level cap increase will not be end of new jug pet choices!

I think SE's team is on a great track to add variety of abilities in the ready moves and traits of the different pets. There are alot of ideas out there for jugs. I"m sure we'd love to see ruzsor, opo-opo, hecteyes, and many other mobs for jugs.
Keep up the great work! REmember event he naysayers love the game (we keep paying subscription and playing it afterall!)

I don't think the Call Beast ability needs a shorter recast. However, it would be nice if starting a voidwatch battle or similar would reset the call beast ability.

[Helel]

So nobody is going to comment on VW procs--the real reason this is a problem? Pet procs are basically impossible or near impossible to proc, and even then it's usually a waste of time. Outside of VW, who cares...? BST can hold its own without a pet.

SMN is completely useless without a pet so I'm not sure why anyone is comparing them to BST. They're so dissimilar it doesn't make any sense. Or do people actually melee T3 VW mobs with their staff?

PUP is closer to what a BST does, so basically the discussion that we should be having is: what is the difference between a BST and a PUP, and how does that difference play into the summoning of pets. Stop talking about SMN.

[Dreamin]

People invite or let BST go to VW?

[xbobx]

Relax everyone, SE knows best, just like a smothering parental figure.

[Granny]

lol monsters that were charmable years ago for old content are still there people!!!!!! so we can still charm!!! omg ya that sure is a happy note to point out when people are asking why cant we play bst and charm for all content for like the last 24 levels abd final leg of the game.

[Vold]

I like how people are arguing that they can't call their pets fast enough to solo hard stuff while just about every other job can't solo hard stuff either. I was killing Vrtra last night. Boy it would have been nice to call pets faster because I could have soloed it then. Or maybe faster reward timers would work, too. Help me solo the universe SE.

I would love these changes. Can't deny it. But I know it'd be so broke afterwards with how strong call beast has become. You'd think we wouldn't have much to complain about with the ability to spam DMs these days.

[SpankWustler]

Thanks for keeping feedback coming! It is much appreciated.


When adding new pets, we design them by adding a special feature to them such as high attack or high defense. In the future we will be adding more pets, and among these new ones there will be an opportunity to introduce some strong attacking pets.

I think pets being more suited towards taking damage rather than dealing damage goes a little deeper than "high attack or high defense". Being vastly better at absorbing damage than dealing damage is pretty universal across all jug pets.

Pets are huge, meaty bags of HP with a -87.5% Damage Taken cap. Every single jug pet has these properties, even if some have more HP than others. Some have strong elemental resistances in addition to this. I don't think anyone could ever complain about the ability of even the flimsiest jug pet to take damage.

Looking at the offense of all jug pets, they have their auto-attack function and their auto-attacks and the ability to auto-attack. The best Ready command for damage is currently Nursery Nuzuna's "Rage", because it affects the sheep's auto-attacks. All direct-damage Ready commands are currently on par with two auto-attack rounds at best.

The damage from these auto-attacks is very good against lower level and lower defense stuff, but falls off of a cliff against anything with decent defense and about a half-dozen levels above the pet. Being that there is no command to cram a Red Curry bun down a normally herbivorous sheep's throat or hurl a whole Marinara Pizza +1 between a ladybug's mandibles in hopes of finding a mouth of sorts, there's not much a player can do to soften this massive drop.

If Beastmaster pets are meant to be brick walls of HP that can deal some damage to some enemies, then mission accomplished and full-speed ahead. If Beastmaster pets are meant to be balanced between offense and defense, then something is not working out.

[Pebe]

Can BSTs not charm all the high level 80-100+ mobs outside abyssea? There were some VT crawlers to 95 in crawlers nest for instance. Most dungeons now have really high level monsters (95+). Are these uncharmable? I don't see why they would be. I don't play BST, but I see BSTs complaining about not being able to charm and I'm confused. I understand the whole not being able to charm in abyssea frustration but, I don't get the problem outside abyssea. The only problem I see is not being able to use charmable pets in VW because of the pet dismiss thing.

[Dreamin]

BST can't charm in both WoE and VW. The more 'recent' events. As for outside zones mobs, sure you can charm them. But for what? Exp? Farming? Most of us that are complaining are specifically complaining about the call beast timer because of VW and WoE. That's the context in which we're complaining about BST.

[Airget]

I think the issue is people are under the assumption that Charm will never be used again. It's just that in the content that has been released it just hasn't been possible to implement charm. Honestly though I don't know why BST complain the new jugs they have been getting have had such powerful beast at their command that I think at this point they are spoiled by what they have now.

The only suggestion I can consider though that could work is perhaps this.

"Exchange" -Releases current beast and replaces it with new jug that has same % HP of last pet-
Recast 1 min.

So basically say you want to call another pet, you use Exchange, your white rarab with 75% HP leaves the field and it's replaced by a adamantoise with 75% HP. At least with this concept you wouldn't have a mean to just resummon faster but an option to exchange your pets out if you want to use a move that's not available on another pet. I would think that this could be the best compromise, since lowering the Call Beast command would be bad if BST are ever in a spot where they can make use of Charm again.

[Zhronne]

Of course, you will still be able to use monsters that were charmable up to now since they are still roaming the lands of Vana'diel.
Up to level 75, more than up to now I'd rather say...

[Aldersyde]

If they're going to make jug pet abilities procs for voidwatch, then it seriously needs to be streamlined to 2 or 3 jugs...between jug recasts, ready charges, and the AoE damage abilities, if a ready move is a proc, you may as well just forget about procing and just kill it.

So hard to believe that SE doesn't see this when they spew on about job balance issues. There has to be a way to change pets faster than call beast on a five minute timer, that is if they actually want ready abilities being used as proc in voidwatch. As it stands, its ill-thought lip service in trying to include bst in the event.

And stop making pets vanish when vw mobs are popped. I'd really like to hear the case for 'job balance' there.

[Zaknafein]

Newsflash. The hint tells you what jug to use.

[Aldersyde]

Newsflash. The hint tells you what jug to use.

Hoorah! That totally fixes the other issues with the ready recast, heavy AoE, AND jugs vanishing upon the spawning of a VW.

Why couldn't I see it before?

[Daniel_Hatcher]

if beastmasters were able to constantly change pets, it would make it possible for them to do everything.

A method used by SMN...... right!!!

It's cool though, it's expected where BST is concerned. We've learned we have to deal with the retarded ways SE does the job.


Jug pets can't zone, yet EVERY other pet can. Wasting a fortune in places like Abyssea and on Missions.

Call Beast has a silly recast timer because it'd be OP if it didn't.

Reward also has a daft recast timer when it's not suffered by any other job, but hey it's been alleviated by "Dawn Mulsum" which is 10k each.

"Run Wild" is a worthless ability

Jug Pets are not cheap yet in newer content we now need to have a load of them as they are not only weakness but depop on EVERY voidwatch pop.


Thanks SE!

PS. Why not just use PUP's style where Call Beast is, if your pet has 100% of it's HP when you leave then it reset's Call Beast's timer. That'd stop the soloing issue and help in things like Voidwatch.

[Olor]

SMN is completely useless without a pet so I'm not sure why anyone is comparing them to BST. They're so dissimilar it doesn't make any sense. Or do people actually melee T3 VW mobs with their staff?



What are you talking about? Unless you count being a gimp "useful" a bst is useless without their pet as well.

[Olor]

I like how people are arguing that they can't call their pets fast enough to solo hard stuff while just about every other job can't solo hard stuff either. I was killing Vrtra last night. Boy it would have been nice to call pets faster because I could have soloed it then. Or maybe faster reward timers would work, too. Help me solo the universe SE.



For me it isn't about soloing at all actually - it is about being useful for a group and being able to do events like WoE without going broke. It is also about them saying "we decided to give you nothing but crappy abilities on this pet, because you can use a different pet instead!" - if the answer to having sucky abilities is to swap pets they need to make pets easier to swap.

[xbobx]

The answer is what someone already said, make a ability like deus ex. That was very smart. let them call beast every min but the pet only has 10% hp or something, they have to rely on stay or reward to fill it. This stops bst from soloing anything but allows them not to be gimped for long period of times.

But as usual, SE fails to see the simple solution when they actually design the solution already, even if it was 4 years too late.

Now for the cost. Jugs should not cost 120k a stack, npcs should sell all jugs at a set price. This keeps crafters in line and not exploiting bsts. If the items are too expensive because people dont farm, because people don't anymore, at least you can buy a stack of dipper for 50k off an npc.

[Sharnak]

The answer is what someone already said, make a ability like deus ex. That was very smart. let them call beast every min but the pet only has 10% hp or something, they have to rely on stay or reward to fill it. This stops bst from soloing anything but allows them not to be gimped for long period of times.

But as usual, SE fails to see the simple solution when they actually design the solution already, even if it was 4 years too late.

Now for the cost. Jugs should not cost 120k a stack, npcs should sell all jugs at a set price. This keeps crafters in line and not exploiting bsts. If the items are too expensive because people dont farm, because people don't anymore, at least you can buy a stack of dipper for 50k off an npc.

for dipper, as one who use to try to syn it i must say it's because of material is very trouble farming, Lesser Chigoe is very very trouble to get one. I use my 95thf with steal+ set try steal it form sheep in ToU area and take about hr just get 3 of them (As you know steal is 5 min cool down and it's very trouble success rate) . As long no any other nicer ways to obtain Lesser Chigoe, i'm sure that price will not come down easily.

[Luvbunny]

Agreed, jug pets should be easily obtainable - or at least the crafting materials should be all obtainable from npc - this will encourage crafting yet keep price in check. Making jug pets similar to avatar and automaton would be a great idea to save on cost. Frankly there are many things they can do to improve BST, but SE seems to have an allergic reaction whenever you bring the subject of pet based jobs - they get seizure, and claim lost memory, unable to respond and just leave us exactly where we are. In another news, they are adding 1500 heavy metal plates for magian trials because... that is just so easy and "extend" years of game life.

[Koroma]

alot of good points but all i really been complaining about the last 14? months is charm, make charm work in abyessa and future events. It seems like a super common sence thing to ask but then again im asking ppl who dont have the man power to let bst pets zone.

[Phogg]

for dipper, as one who use to try to syn it i must say it's because of material is very trouble farming, Lesser Chigoe is very very trouble to get one. I use my 95thf with steal+ set try steal it form sheep in ToU area and take about hr just get 3 of them (As you know steal is 5 min cool down and it's very trouble success rate) . As long no any other nicer ways to obtain Lesser Chigoe, i'm sure that price will not come down easily.

There is a much easier way to farm lesser chigoes than stealing them. You can harvest them in Grauberg (S). You can easily get over a stack in an hour there once you know where the points are.

[Juilan]

One of my biggest gripes of bst aside from jug only has been the master can only seem to say engaged to the monster that the monster or the master has last hit. In situations like dynamis this could have bad results, think staggering multiple, where someone else could steal a monster. Could there be a way for the pet and master to have claim on different monsters?

[Olor]

Newsflash. The hint tells you what jug to use.

so you stand around the whole battle being useless and waiting without a pet (because you can't keep your pet through confrontation status) hoping maybe you might be needed for a proc.... so in other words BST is a proc that you're better off just hoping doesn't happen because it means dead weight in your alliance...

[Annalise]

Making it easier to change pets means a reduction in the call beast ability's duration, so this would be a difficult problem.

I think it would make sense if Call Beast functioned similar to Activate and Call Wyvern.

If you release a jug pet at 100% HP, it should reset the Call Beast timer.

Not really a fix or anything, but it should at least make it a little easier to switch between jug pets, without spamming jugs.

[Zaknafein]

so you stand around the whole battle being useless and waiting without a pet (because you can't keep your pet through confrontation status) hoping maybe you might be needed for a proc.... so in other words BST is a proc that you're better off just hoping doesn't happen because it means dead weight in your alliance...

That about sums it up..yes. I wouldn't worry too much about it though. I've never seen a bst in any of the more "professional" groups I've done VW with. Saw pup once or twice, but never a bst. Maybe bst could get into a shout group for some of the lower tiers. Any of the harder ones though bst just isn't practical. As you suggested bst is viewed as "dead weight" for a variety of reasons.

[Phogg]

I think it would make sense if Call Beast functioned similar to Activate and Call Wyvern.

If you release a jug pet at 100% HP, it should reset the Call Beast timer.

Not really a fix or anything, but it should at least make it a little easier to switch between jug pets, without spamming jugs.

I submit you should also get your jug back. A friend came up with a new ability that would restore your jug pet and your call beast timer, its called "Stuff Pet".

[Chamaan]

Could always give bst a DEA type JA with a 1m cooldown that only works with minijugs and summons those stupid frogs they're trying to foist off as mascot pets. Make the minijugs cheap and stack to 99. You wouldn't have a heavy DD but at least you'd have a pet to snarl your hate onto and help you do some melee. Then they could add more minipets and minijugs. Like Tiny Dhamels, Itty Bitty Apkallu, Adorable Adamantoises, and Wee Behemoths.

[Olor]

That about sums it up..yes. I wouldn't worry too much about it though. I've never seen a bst in any of the more "professional" groups I've done VW with. Saw pup once or twice, but never a bst. Maybe bst could get into a shout group for some of the lower tiers. Any of the harder ones though bst just isn't practical. As you suggested bst is viewed as "dead weight" for a variety of reasons.

Well it is something to worry about if the content specifically is designed to make bst useless and the devs don't want to do anything about it.

If at the very least you didn't lose your pet with confrontation status you might be able to do a little damage and if your proc comes up you can tell it to leave and call another. When doing multiple pops it wouldn't be very convenient but a heck of a lot better than it is now.

[Zaknafein]

Like some people in this thread, and others have mentioned Beast needs a JA that allows you to "put away" a pet if it is at 100%. That would come in handy in many events, and would hardly be game breaking.

[Olor]

I would prefer a ja that allows you to call a new pet with same HP as the old one

[Dreamin]

Easiest solution is for SE to just shorten the damn recast timer on call beast to 1-2min. Seriously, if they still thinks that's game breaking ("BALANCE ISSUES"), then SE clearly doesn't even play BST in any of their 'recent events'.

[Zaknafein]

Easiest solution is for SE to just shorten the damn recast timer on call beast to 1-2min. Seriously, if they still thinks that's game breaking ("BALANCE ISSUES"), then SE clearly doesn't even play BST in any of their 'recent events'.

While that would help in voidwatch it would make bst practically invincible on older content including abyssea. Personally the bandwagoning of Bst in dynamis is more than enough. We don't need that in more places.

[Areola]

Easiest solution is for SE to just shorten the damn recast timer on call beast to 1-2min. Seriously, if they still thinks that's game breaking ("BALANCE ISSUES"), then SE clearly doesn't even play BST in any of their 'recent events'.

What are you talking about? SE don't play bst at all <_<.

[Dreamin]

dont think it'll change anything for both abyssea and dynamis or other older content so to speak. There ain't really anything that is hard enough in those places where the existing timer is already more then enough. However, in situations like in VW and WoE, 5min timer basically excludes BST in both of those events (granted, no one invites BST to VW anyway but that's beside the point).

[Ultimare]

I've been preaching about bst's party versatility for some time. I'm not all that sure how procing works in vw (I don't get to participate much because I'm a bst), but I've been to a few Hahava fights that seemed to drag on for quite some time after all the lights were full. It seemed like any job would have been more useful than bst. All our pets can really do is feed the target TP. Our job's ability to actually assist the party or deal damage to the monster just feels really limited. I was one of the ones who would have LOVED to have seen a scorpion, that I could have adjusted my gear to throw death scissors out as fast as I could gear down my ready timer. I would have settled for more of an assisting pet like a dhalmal that could spam powerful cures, lower defense (somehow doubt this would work on mobs like Hahava or HNMs) and raise stats. What I get... is the ability to run in with my best DD pet... The sheep, Lulush, or Gorefang, and maybe get 500dmg rampages and 200-300dmg foot kicks or razor fangs. The damage might get a little higher if I could get some Atmacite or something... but people would have to actually want me there. Pretty much any group I join with doing anything seriously, I get told "change jobs or gtfo".

On a positive note, I did fork out the 50K for a single hippo to level up with and Fantod was a bit of a surprise. With a 2 double attack bonus atma, I was getting a reasonable amount of double/triple attacks doing 500-800 damage a hit, and with critical hits pushing into the 1000s on trees in abby-altepa. I don't quite like how getting the most of fantod rests on hoping for double/triple attack or critical hits, but just having that potential there is enough for now, but outside of abyssea, without atma, this is going to loose all it's glory. We still need something that can contribute to VW and such...

Misc. Comments:
-Shhhhhhh. Don't comment on SE's pole. Sure, it doesn't seem all that fair considering 5,000,000 individual opinions of us US folk only weighs 1 point against the what could have been potentially lesser individual opinions regarding the matter, but our own government is set up in a similar way with States and Electoral votes. I bet this was some SE employee's racist joke, designing there pole like this, so that when we got all upset about it and talked down about it, we inadvertently bad mouthed our own government. The joke is on you, sir, for we are not communist and can and often will do so freely. I'm kidding. It's all a coincidence, I'm sure.
-Has anyone else tried using Fantod, then using a Zoolter's hat to try to stack it with Back Heel? It didn't seem to work for me. It only did about 500, which wasn't really different from other back heel's I landed. I wonder if it's boost doesn't last long enough or if it somehow canceled it.
-If anyone still has a Bryne laying around and decides to wear it while using the ninja job emote and has the new frog jug summoned Masashi Kishimoto is going to file copy right infringement.

Note: I misread the post about the hippo from the rep, so I adjusted my post accordingly upon review.

[Dreamin]

You have stated exactly the problem (at least for VW). BST for the most part is too weak to bring as the 'killer DD' to rush in to finish off the NM in VW once lights are cap. While proc on BST pet does happen from time to time, but thanks to the fact that these only affect BLUE (more item), YELLOW (EXP) and GREEN (CRUOR). Which most (99.99%) VW pt that are going for gears (is there any other reason to do VW?) wont care much about (some party will kill NM after Red Capped). This is why in almost all VW pug, you'll see that they would 1st fill out ALL MAGIC proc slots 1st (BLM, RDM, DRK, SCH, WHM, BLU and NIN) and then just fill in the other slots with tank(s) and DDs. Different types of DDs are desirable only because of the fact that they added more proc (and freeze the NM). Same reason for SMN usually dont get invited unless PD or EA are need/desirable. Same as PUP (although with the changes, it's quite possible PUP might get some more invites now but I highly doubted it).

BST is now basically the most unwanted (and undesirable) pet jobs now. Our timer kill us for event like WoE and even for VWs (although we dont get invite to VW for reasons I explained above). Sure there might be some LS or PUG that might want to include BST for whatever reason, but for the most efficient and easiest setup, that's more or less the 'template'.

Before ppl that jumps in and go off, consider this, would you want to spend only 2hr - 1hr on shout to form the group and 1hr to kill the NM 4x or would you want to spend 3-4hr since each fight would be 30min+. And dont forget that everytime you drag out the fight, you always run the risk of the NM gets off something nasty - i.e. Pil spam immune mode, Kaggen spam Death, etc.

It's very disheartening to see how SE is dealing with BST (and SMN to a lesser extend) after seeing how they finally fixed PUP. (no question that PUP been screwed for the longest time).

[Ketaru]

It's very disheartening to see how SE is dealing with BST (and SMN to a lesser extend) after seeing how they finally fixed PUP. (no question that PUP been screwed for the longest time).

Unfortunately, with the newfound prevalence of soloing things like Abyssea or Dynamis, the rest of the playerbase is once again convinced that BST is fine because it can solo. Listen to people talk and it is clear people in this game still genuinely believe the job was introduced to be a solo job. To their credit, soloing can achieve a lot more in this game than ever before.

But Voidwatch just demonstrates that, the more the game has changed, the more it has stayed the same really. BST is still a weak group play job. And the only reason it is invited to some content like Abyssea EXP parties is because all jobs have the potential to be powerful to the point of irrelevance. I'd say the job is also quite useful for new Burning Circle battles. But nobody does those. (on the other hand, look at all those people mad that BST is a desirable job for the new level cap fight because Snarl is working as intended. Har, har. Suck it up, invite the BST for those brief 10 minutes, and go back on to holding your longheld beliefs that the job is useless).

Never mind the job still lacks any inherent Job Traits or Abilities that promote TP gain or a power house weaponskill. To put this in perspective, even RDM has these now in the form of Temper and Chant du Cygne. Glances at the discussions going on in the other forums includes the usual culprits when it comes to talking about damage dealing: WAR, MNK, SAM, DRG. When will we see the day that BST will be recognized among the pantheon of damage dealers? Haven't got hopes for it because, as the history of this game suggests, the only people who care about BST are BSTs.

[Xilk]

Do a /sea all bst sometimes.
Compare it to other jobs online at the time. Bst has risen alot in popularity.

[Mavrick]

Do a /sea all bst sometimes.
Compare it to other jobs online at the time. Bst has risen alot in popularity.

By number yes, currently 2nd place on my server behind whm.
But Desirability is still a major problem for anyone wanting to do serious events. Outside of very specific scenarios, BST is still the "Okay we have all our important jobs covered so you can come Bst..." job.

VW has pretty much deteriorated to a Proc + Zerg spam fest with little to no strategic elements, so I doubt BST would ever be popular in such an event now.

[Louispv]

Do a /sea all bst sometimes.
Compare it to other jobs online at the time. Bst has risen alot in popularity.

And they all leached it to 99, wear full aurore, a glyph axe and a bloom buckler/ chopper. They get on it for 2 hours a day to solo dynamis, then go back to their useful job to do everything else.

[Zaknafein]

Personally I find it hilarious that people who used to laugh at Bst, and never invite it to anything now bandwagon the hell out of it. Gross to anyone who is a long time Bst, but no less hilarious.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Do a /sea all bst sometimes.
Compare it to other jobs online at the time. Bst has risen alot in popularity.Currently whm280, thf200, blm184, mnk176, war154, bst140.

[Xilk]

bst is usually 2nd to whm on bahamut lately.