Phoenix The Terrestrial Avatar Of Life.

[Brightshadow]

While I know that Square Enix is still working on Cait Sith and Atomos I always thought that Phoenix would be a great addition to the game. Now I know that in the storyline supposely she is dead, but the lore can always be added on to and I think that Phoenix would provide players with a new epic fight, and would provide Summoner very fun new tools to utilize in parties.


Quest

A Legend Awaken

Requirements: COP 7-5/Phoenix Feather
Starting Area: Tavnazian safehold
Starting NPC: Despachiaire
Key Items: Essence of Life (BCNM keyitem)

~Quest Summary~
Despachiaire wants you to take a Phoenix Feather to Parradamo Tor and use the Cradle of Rebirth to transform the feather into a Essence of Life in hopes of reviving Phoenix.


Flames of Rebirth
Requirements: A Legend Awaken/Essence of Life
Starting Area: Tavnazian safehold
Starting NPC: Despachiaire
Key Items: Whisper of Rebirth

~Quest Summary~
The Legendary Fiery Bird of life has Spoken to you, and Requested for you to take the essence of life to Celestial Nexus.

~Battle~

Phoenix (Level 85)
(Im horrible with gear ideas don't kill me for what I put as the stats lol)

Rewards
-A pact with Phoenix
-20,000 Gils
-Phoenix Bow (Level85,Lower enemy defense per hit by 5% Cap 100% ~DMG99~) (RNG/SAM)
-Phoenix Necklace (Level85, Gives Reraise Effect 10%) (All Jobs)
-Phoenix Murasame (Level85, Gives Enfire/+Auto Regain ~DMG101~) (SAM)
-Phoenix Staff (Level85,Reduces Recast and Casting time for Raise and Reraise in half ~DMG85~) (SMN,BLM,WHM,SCH)

Battle Scenario
-Phoenix has two hybrid elementals assist her (Light&Fire element)
-Phoenix uses Rebirth Flames at 25% HP only once. and she is revived when defeated at full HP. (Cannot be dispel, could be stunned.)
-Phoenix uses on the player with the most Enmity Steel Wing.
-Phoenix uses on players that are out of range alone Fireball.
-When Phoenix uses Melioration Squawk she will use more Bloodpacts.
-Phoenix uses Hellish Flames when she has more than +3 Members on her.
-Phoenix Scorching Spuawk increases fire base damage. (Including AF)
-Phoenix does not use her Tear Bloodpacts.
-Phoenix Elementals are never revived.


Phoenix Avatar Form

Summoning Level
-Level 1

Element
-Strength:Fire
-Weakness:Water

Spell Cost/Perp Cost
-15 MP to summon.
-Same Perp Cost as Diabolos.

Avatar Favor
-Regain (1~4TP)

Bloodpacts

1.)Rebirth Flames (Astral Flow)
-Level: 1
-Bloodpact Rage
-MP: All
-Effect: Does Moderate Fire Damage + Gives all party members Reraise, and the ones that are dead Raise.

2.)Fireball
-Level: 3
-Bloodpact Rage
-MP:11
-Effect: Deals Fire Damage to the target.

3.)Phoenix Tears
-Level 27
-Bloodpact Ward
-MP: 100
-Effect: Raises all party members (Raise tier is based on Summoning magic skill.)

4.)Melioration Squawk
-Level: 45
-Bloodpact Ward
-MP: 124
-Effect: Gives all Targets within range Refresh,Regain,and Regen.

5.)Steel Wing
-Level: 65
-Bloodpact Rage
-MP: 102
-Effect:Causes Physical Damage, additional effect lowers defense.

6.)Scorching Spuawk
-Level: 73
-Bloodpact Ward
-MP: 192
-Effect:Gives effect of Firestorm to all party members.

7.)Fiery Wing
-Level: 77
-Bloodpact Rage
-MP: 153
-Effect:Causes Fire Damage, additional effect burn.

8.)Altana Tears
-Level81
-Bloodpact Ward
-MP:200
-Effect:Gives Reraise to all party members.

9.)Hellish Flames
-Level: 90
-Bloodpact Rage
-MP: 201
-Effect:Causes AOE fire damage.

10.)Solar Flare
-Level: 99
-Bloodpact Rage
-MP: 321
-Effect:Causes heavy damage to the target, additional effect of TP reset.

[Brightshadow]

-Adjusted some bloodpacts.
-Adjusted Phoenix battle section.

Let me know what you guys think ^^

[Soranika]

Interesting.... although I do not agree with the method of obtaining.

[Brightshadow]

What don't you like about it the quest? or the Quest Progression.
What do you like the most about phoenix? I see alot of potential for her Especially for endgame.

[Soranika]

BLeh nevermind, I scannedit without reading everything. Ignore me. >.< I'm tired.

[Cabalabob]

ehh.. i'm a bit iffy about the quest, i mean in CoP Tenzen had to sacrifice like.. half a country or something to summon phoenix, did he not know he could just chuck a feather into a rock? lol

a while ago i thought it would be cool if rather than summoning phoenix they could have given smn the ability to summon Tenzen's GK (like the bound weapons summoners have in oblivion) and given it a special weapon skill like the one Tenzen used on the airship fight give it something like an auto-reraise aftermath which duration varies with tp, make it a fire ele weaponskill acc based on our summoning skill, or something like that

[Soranika]

Equipment augmented with Phoenix's power say what!?

[Brightshadow]

Cabalabob
ehh.. i'm a bit iffy about the quest, i mean in CoP Tenzen had to sacrifice like.. half a country or something to summon phoenix, did he not know he could just chuck a feather into a rock? lol

a while ago i thought it would be cool if rather than summoning phoenix they could have given smn the ability to summon Tenzen's GK (like the bound weapons summoners have in oblivion) and given it a special weapon skill like the one Tenzen used on the airship fight give it something like an auto-reraise aftermath which duration varies with tp, make it a fire ele weaponskill acc based on our summoning skill, or something like that

Lol well if you want to kill a billion monsters I guess its ok, I was thinking of adding that section lol but it sounds like a unnecessary grind.

[Tohihroyu]

If anything I'd rather travel to the far east to get her, not just climb to the top of a tower or something. (or go to a repaint area >_>)

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Not this again... /sigh


Now I know that in the storyline supposely she is dead,




Asking "Why can't we summon Phoenix?" is like asking "Why can't we resurrect Aeris?"

[Brightshadow]

Even though the merge happened it is only a portion of Phoenix not her true form, similar to a avatar.

[Shadotter]

Erm, I think it implied that it was her true form, she actually died, but then chose to merge instead. As for summoning the katana, she left the katana when she died.

[Dreamin]

If anything I'd rather travel to the far east to get her, not just climb to the top of a tower or something. (or go to a repaint area >_>)

I will be willing to give up any hope of getting any more new Avatars if SE gives us a real Far East with a CoP-like storyline where we can adventure in (none of these Abyssea/WoE/VW zones please though).

[Soranika]

Wow, I'm so glad no one foolishly used the Fenrir defense.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Even though the merge happened it is only a portion of Phoenix not her true form, similar to a avatar.

Problem 1:




Problem 2:

[Soranika]

Problem 1:




Problem 2:



Shsss! Stop speaking logic. No one here seems to care that bahamut and phoenix are nothing more than plot devices.

[hideka]

ummmmm i dont remember selthus EVER merging with phoenix >_> its been a long time since i did COP so i could be wrong....
and i think tenzen's country did it wrong.. taking life shouldnt invoke the power of an avatar that is meant to bring life......

[Soranika]

ummmmm i dont remember selthus EVER merging with phoenix >_> its been a long time since i did COP so i could be wrong....
and i think tenzen's country did it wrong.. taking life shouldnt invoke the power of an avatar that is meant to bring life......Bahamut destroy's Tenzen's sword, which released the little essence of Phoenix left. Instead of her going back to the mother crystal, she gave her power to Selthus instead.

And if you what Tenzen's country wrong, look at the suffering Odin called and what both he and Alexander inflicted to those over Aht Urghan.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Sun.
Why dose pheonix have to be terrestrial and not celestial?

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

ummmmm i dont remember selthus EVER merging with phoenix >_> its been a long time since i did COP so i could be wrong....






and i think tenzen's country did it wrong.. taking life shouldnt invoke the power of an avatar that is meant to bring life......

The entire point of the Phoenix, the bird that is reborn from its own ashes, is the cycle of death and rebirth. And for the rebirth of Phoenix in FFXI, it takes the deaths of many mere mortals to balance thing out.

That cycle was then broken when Phoenix's light never actually got back to the crystals, as mentioned above.

[Zeargi]

Two words: TIME TRAVEL. There are many ways around story points if you think about it. I mean Fenrir is dead at the start of the story, but can be brought back to life. So why should it be any different for the the embodiment of Rebirth? If you want to make it harder why not have the Eyes of (Insert Element) from Waking the Beast, Whisper of the Moon, Whisper of Dreams, and if you want to get real crazy throw in a Carbuncle's Ruby; All of which will be required to open the battle field. Travel back to some battle field in Wings of the Goddess or Travel to Castle Zvahl Keep (The Crossroad of Fate). I mean, let's be honest... It's a fantasy game, ANY thing is possible. Heck, Why not fight Phoenix in some place in Abyssea.

[Tohihroyu]

No, no, no No more Abyssea PLEASE.


And chances are she is dead in Abyssea too.

[Soranika]

LOLOL if anyone bothered to actually pay attention to the storyline of abyssea, Shinryu absorbed Selh'tues which means he also absorbed the remaining energy of Phoenix.

Seriously... plot devices.... gawd people should read books. Yeah yeah I know, completely irrelevant to the game...

[Zeargi]

LOLOL if anyone bothered to actually pay attention to the storyline of abyssea, Shinryu absorbed Selh'tues which means he also absorbed the remaining energy of Phoenix.

Seriously... plot devices.... gawd people should read books. Yeah yeah I know, completely irrelevant to the game...

Maybe not everyone's got to that point yet. Maybe people are on the mission right before the Shinryu fight... :/

[Soranika]

LOL, sorry. Didn't mean to spoil anything.

[Tohihroyu]

LOLOL if anyone bothered to actually pay attention to the storyline of abyssea, Shinryu absorbed Selh'tues which means he also absorbed the remaining energy of Phoenix.

Seriously... plot devices.... gawd people should read books. Yeah yeah I know, completely irrelevant to the game...

Most people just spam anything story related because "LOLOLOLOL I DUN WANNA REED DIS GAME ITS NOT A BOOK I ONLY CURR ABOUT DA REWARDZ" there was a topic like this actually...someone demanding you should be able to skip all cut-scenes entirely & just get the reward

[Soranika]

Playing the wrong game if you don't care for the story. =\

[Myrrh]

What all threads for new avatars are like

"F**K STORYLINE, I WANT THIS SUMMON. JUST MAKE A CONVENIENT PLOT DEVICE TO GET SAID AVATAR. I DON'T CARE IF IT GOES AGAINST THE MAIN STORYLINE. I DEMAND IT AND I SHOULD GET IT. SE IS STUPID. READING IS STUPID."

[Zeargi]

LOL, sorry. Didn't mean to spoil anything.

You are forgiven :3 Once I beat Abyssea, I'll tell more so on my thoughts.

[Bearstar]

true pheonix is dead, she is the red light that opens the gate to Sea. But of course Fenrir was resurected as well. But I think unless SE really really really thinks this thru, a Pheonix summon would just be a gimic.

And I agree Tohi, SE need to stop messing around and give us a new expansion! Hope the PS2 isn't the reason they've been twiddling their thumbs. If it is why don't they make a ps3 version or make a super hard drive that plugs into the PS2 just like the original hardrives Playstation made once upon a time.

And also Seth always had Pheonix's power remember he was resurected by her when he died 10k years ago. Does no one remember the cs where Prishe holds her pendant to the Promathia statue?

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

I mean, let's be honest... It's a fantasy game, ANY thing is possible.

And they all* involve deus ex machina and/or Mary Sue.

Anything is possible in fantasy. Not everything is possible in good fantasy.

*OK, not strictly all of them. Just the ones that don't end in "And then everyone dies."

[Zeargi]

And they all* involve deus ex machina and/or Mary Sue.

Anything is possible in fantasy. Not everything is possible in good fantasy.

*OK, not strictly all of them. Just the ones that don't end in "And then everyone dies."

Yes, and there's a fine line, but if the game gives the avenues, then I don't see the dilemma. I been thinking about. Everyone keeps say that it takes sacrifices to restore the Phoenix, but I don't think that to be 100% true. I believe it more so that it requires energy, because when you break it down, Carbuncle is doing the exact same thing for Fenrir. The only difference for Tenzen is that he has no Celestial Avatars in his homeland and it's quite clear that not all the Terrestrial avatars agree with Carbuncle's methods. Noone really knows what happens to the Phoenix to get her to the state she's in now (E.I. Turned into a great katana). Which is why I stand by Time Travel or Abyssea's BC: Abyssea - Empyreal Paradox. If you use the Wings of The Goddess route, then you're not messing with current events, and who's to say She didn't get the way she is because of SMNs taking too much of her power (Ehh! Good thought!). And from what I've understand from playing the Abyssea missions and quests, there are multiple dimensions just they don't really cross. But as the arena states it's a Paradox, so things in it don't need to be 100% fact.

[Soranika]

You're looking to much into the name of it. It's nothing more than the home of the fifth mother crystal. Which was destroyed by Shinryu in Abyssea. Atomos is the general reason for realm distortion between time and space.

[Babekeke]

I had actually always assumed that SAM would get some sort of affinity with Phoenix, kind of Tenzen-Style, rather than SMN. Perhaps with the lvl 99 GK WS or something.

[Soranika]

I had actually always assumed that SAM would get some sort of affinity with Phoenix, kind of Tenzen-Style, rather than SMN. Perhaps with the lvl 99 GK WS or something.
Considering SMN can summon Odin outside of the normal means to which he been known to appear before characters in the story, it would be hard to expect that too.

But generally I look at in the same way that a lot of clothing and equipment we see on NPCs are unobtainable. I STILL want to know where I can body piece like the one Nanaa Mihgo wears.

[Jerbob]

There are so many factors that are involved in our pacts with avatars that a simple "Phoenix is dead" argument just doesn't suffice as an excuse, in my opinion.

Firstly, we don't know what death means to an avatar, nor do we actually know that she has been completely destroyed in any meaningful way. The events leading up to and during CoP simply show her as massively weakened, not dead. It's never stated that the sacrifices in the East are required to "keep her alive", simply that her ability to manifest in her current form depends on them. We can't even sure that her return to the Crystal would have "killed" her, nor the events in the Empyreal Paradox. Phoenix is essentially a god, after all, and she doesn't have to follow the rules that lesser beings do.

Secondly, most of the avatars are or have been severely incapacitated at some point, possibly excluding Carbuncle (depending on whether his poem is "canon") and Diabolos. Fenrir isn't exactly up and about until the completion of the Windurstian nation missions, yet he can be contacted with a "power injection" courtesy of Carbuncle's guidance for people who've never completed those missions. The Celestial Avatars have been in the deepest of slumbers for literal ages, yet Summoners can use the merest fragments of their power to do amazing things. It seems that a dead, sleeping or incapacitated avatar is still perfectly capable of sending us the tiny trickle of their energy required to summon an aspect of them.

Last and certainly not least, Phoenix is the very essence of resurrection and rebirth. To say she's dead with any level of finality is somewhat shortsighted, as is implying that she can't come back if she is dead.

Personally, I'd like to see a quest that involves reviving the sacrificed in the Far East as a motivation for, and result of, Phoenix's resurrection. Carbuncle seems like a fairly amiable individual so I'm sure he'd be up for donating a bit of astral power to "jump start" Phoenix and let her resurrect herself. As Phoenix's own power grows she could release the donated lifeforce of the sacrificed - and it'd make me feel a whole lot more comfortable about the whole thing, lol

I suppose the tl;dr version is simply - being "dead" is relative for an avatar, and if any avatar is "dead", Phoenix is the least likely to be worried about it. :P

[Babekeke]

Firstly, we don't know what death means to an avatar,

My avatars die all the time. Then I re-summon them.

[Zeargi]

Firstly, we don't know what death means to an avatar

Not that I disagree with you, but the first time you open the quest to fight Fenrir, Carbuncle states that they are creatures of Vana'diel and not like the other Gods. But I do agree that the may not be bound totally to death, or in any case this avatar for certain.

[Tarage]

I support this idea. I would love to have Phoenix. I've always wanted a strong light avatar, even though we might get that with Cait Sith.

[Divinechild]

I may have another reason why se doesn't want to release bahamut and the pheonix.
It's a pattern, Besides the six celestial avatars (fire,wind,water,ice,thunder,earth) se hasn't released any new avatars other than light and dark types.
carbuncle- light
fenrir-dark
diablos-dark
Alexander-light
Odin-dark
and soon...
Cait Sith-light
Atomos-dark.
I think going by this history pattern, this is one of their main reasons for not releasing bahamut or pheonix other than those other people have mentioned. Bahamut if released would either have to be a non-element type or fire type and pheonix would have to be a fire type. Food for thought?

[Saiken253]

So many good ideas to include Phoenix into SMNs arsenals! 1 idea that I have is something similar that you do for Fenrir(or had to do the 1st time). Collect the whispers from all the avatars(this time including fenrir and diabolos as well), but that's not all. Maybe having to retrieve several explicit items(one of which would be a phoenix feather, and other items that symbolize fire/life maybe 5 different items) and trade them to a new NPC with the whispers in your inventory. The NPC makes a new item that's meant to be a conduit. You then go to a secluded location(as with all the avatars) and you trade the new item to the spot. It then uses up all your whispers and there's a CS where the avatars are summoned and transfer power to the conduit in order call forth the power of phoenix. Could even get selt'heus involved and if you do, the energy created could possibly be sufficient in calling forth more power from Phoenix(i.e. awakening more of her power) that is released from Selt'heus in the form of Phoenix(albeit not her full power most likely, but still strong enough to be a prime avatar in this state. She then shows her gratitude and requests a fight to see if you are worthy of controlling her power. Her fight shouldn't be anything less than difficult. Have some "prime avatar" gimmicks for her like, she Auto-reraises randomly(but a minimum of 2 times) like Aerns but, anyone within 25~30 of her take decent~moderate fire/light damage. I like many of the abilities that have been posted for her, but I would think her 2hour should be a little more powerful. I think it should be like RR4ga(raise with no weakness and fully healed; with a few buffs like haste, atk/acc/matk/macc/whatever else would be proper) however, using her specific 2hour ability should wipe Astral Flow status.

I know these may bee farfetched ideas, but we're trying to make this game better and better, not keeping it exactly where it is. Change can be good, and we need to be the ones to make it(and hopefully have these ideas reach SE's ears)

[Pebe]

Since we are talking about phoenix, I thought I would share with you guys the phoenix quest I submitted for the stratics quest contest a few years back.

http://ffxi.stratics.com/php-bin/show_content.php?content=30944

It can be found at this link, titled Holy resurrection by Pebe. I'm sorry about the grammar errors in advance. I was rushing to turn it in and my proof reading failed. Also stratics used a different word format than I did so some of the spacing got messed up in certain places. Enjoy.

[Pebe]

Lol after rereading it myself, I facepalm at some of my characterizations, think I was 16 when I wrote this.

[Saiken253]

Regardless of the grammatical errors, I actually enjoyed this. This would be a really good way of employing a quest that can string Phoenix into being a summon for us. (while will keeping to the lore of this game). And of course updating her abilities for today's game ;D I would totally make a petition for this to be made real.

[Dohati]

yeah phoenix is never going to be able to be summoned in present-day vana'diel... which is why we go to the past in the WotG areas to find her! i don't see any reason why she can't be alive during the crystal war. they never really specified /when/ she died and got sucked into a GK. actually, when WotG first came out, my initial reaction was, "yay! an excuse to get phoenix!!"

[Dohati]

LOLOL if anyone bothered to actually pay attention to the storyline of abyssea, Shinryu absorbed Selh'tues which means he also absorbed the remaining energy of Phoenix.

Seriously... plot devices.... gawd people should read books. Yeah yeah I know, completely irrelevant to the game...

technically promathia absorbed selh'teus, creating shinryu :o juss' sayin'

[Dohati]

because the CoP plot actually directly states that phoenix is a terrestial avatar. they list all the terrestial avatars including bahamut, diabolos, carbuncle, fenrir, and phoenix. i can't think of the cutscene name, or exactly at what point in the story it is, but if it helps any, i think it takes place in the hospital in upper jeuno.

EDIT: forgot to quote, but somebody asked why phoenix has to be terresstial, and not celestial :X

[Saiken253]

did anyone read that taru's link? the way he described it would work quite well. Selt'heus doesn't NEED phoenix to be alive, he only had her reside within him so that she wouldn't die(?). And if you say he's become the planet's protector, PSHH! he's not doing a very good job of that! I think he would relinquish Phoenix to a highly trusted person(such as yourself) if it meant that Phoenix could be revived. Using the power of the mothercrystals, power from the other terrestrial avatars and a tear of the goddess Altana would probably be enough energy to fuel the resurrection of Phoenix. The far east probably didn't have anything such as these to utilize in Phoenix's revival, so they used what they could.

[Dohati]

*SPOILERS* selh'teus died by absorbing a massive amount of emptiness, at which point phoenix merged with him and they were both reborn as a single entity. i did read that link though. it was interesting, but i wasn't 100% thrilled with it, mostly because it just sounded ridiculously difficult to complete, and it still just doesn't quite work out with the plot. the only viable way i could see us getting phoenix is getting him in the crystal war era, but i dunno why they haven't thought of that yet, so obvious... <.<

[Saiken253]

so true haha! I truly do not want Cait Sith. he/she is not going to be any use imo =\ will just be a cute thing that follows us around when we're bored/not doing anything. Especially if they're basing her off of the WotG cait sith and it's abilities. Phoenix or go home i say!

[jeffanddane]

Wouldnt it be a cool idea to obtain pheonix in wotg before tenzen locked her in his blade ?

[Saiken253]

Well, since WotG is supposedly both the past and an alternate reality, it would still work out in the "normal time"!

Tenzen is such a womanizer! The above post is a great example!

[Myrrh]

How about no on the Pheonix and we get a real Avatar? You know what we don't need at 99? More crappy Light Bps and a stupid (re)raisga. If you're dying so much that you even need to use something like that then having it won't help whatsoever.

[Saiken253]

it's not just (re)raisega~ Phoenix will basically be a more magically inclined version of Ifrit with more enfeebling and enhancing with her(enfeeb/enhances that we don't have already, or more potent versions or something). Cause let's face it, who uses ifrit all that much? :<

Plus, this could bee a way to help with our damage as well(seeing as Phoenix is a "higher grade avatar" of sorts). Using better formulas for her specifically simply because she's who she is(an avatar that rivals Bahamut in power).

Cait sith will only be a disappointment, I can see it :<

[Divinechild]

Why do people keep referring to pheonix as a light avatar?? Does no one know mythology?

Wikipedia: The phoenix or phenix (Greek: Φοίνιξ Greek pronunciation: [ˈfiniks], is a mythical sacred FIREBIRD that can be found in the mythologies of the Arabian, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Chinese, Indian and (according to Sanchuniathon) Phoenicians.

In previous Final fantasy games such as 7 and 8 pheonix is also fire, which is Final fantasy mythology.
In FF11 pheonix is given the color red, the light she gives off is red ( I.E the flames that come from the katana)

Ffxiclopedia: Tenzen has the Phoenix Blade, which contains the Flames of resurrection--Phoenix's life essence. She is believed to be worshiped in the Far East.

It just so happens she has the power to reraise after death,and some of her move have a reraise effect on others. She's not supposed to be a light avatar. (Example Only) how titan merited BP Geocrush has an aditional effect of stun even though stun is a thunder type move.

[Psxpert2011]

What don't you like about it the quest? or the Quest Progression.
What do you like the most about phoenix? I see alot of potential for her Especially for endgame.

Phoenix should be a multi-quest accomplishment like some odd little rewards we used to obtain...the only difference with this is, smns will be over-powered and loved forever! XD


ehh.. i'm a bit iffy about the quest, i mean in CoP Tenzen had to sacrifice like.. half a country or something to summon phoenix, did he not know he could just chuck a feather into a rock? lol

a while ago i thought it would be cool if rather than summoning phoenix they could have given smn the ability to summon Tenzen's GK (like the bound weapons summoners have in oblivion) and given it a special weapon skill like the one Tenzen used on the airship fight give it something like an auto-reraise aftermath which duration varies with tp, make it a fire ele weaponskill acc based on our summoning skill, or something like that

That's why the quest seems too irrelevant and unreasonable. I don't think we can challenge something that has passed away although there's legends of Phoenix bloodlines which (pass down their power) are the emphesis of rebirth and life( I really didn't know how to word it). Summoners don't really use the celestial being anyways, they summon a portion of their power from the realm which they dwell(whether living or dead/asleep).

I heard many stories of the Phoenix, they're usually female of their breed/race... They're A-sexual and need no partner to breed. They lay their egg to pass down their power and bloodline and live for thousands of years. Their species( as rare as you can imagine) are born from a nest of the deepest fire, under extreme heat and pressure. Many legends are made for the Phoenix, SE can just make up anything they like.


LOLOL if anyone bothered to actually pay attention to the storyline of abyssea, Shinryu absorbed Selh'tues which means he also absorbed the remaining energy of Phoenix.

Seriously... plot devices.... gawd people should read books. Yeah yeah I know, completely irrelevant to the game...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>S P O I L E R S ! ! ! ! ! !<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Haven't completed anything yet, thanks alot =P

[Myrrh]

Spoilers, Darth Vader is Lukes Father since I'm guessing you haven't seen that either.

[Saiken253]

I also agree on this part. We don't fully summon the avatars; we summon a portion of them. Also they can give us their power whilst dormant/dead because they transcend the confines of us mere mortals. In fact, many of the avatars are dead if you read their lore. Fenrir was dead and he was supposed to be the avatar that saved all of Windurst. Shiva was once an elvaan(i'm assuming simply because of how she looks) Queen that died in her exile after being betrayed by her uncle. Leviathan was killed by himself(the lore explains it!), and so on.

And phoenix is much more powerful then them. SE is just being lazy and not wanting to completely design a good avatar(and they are probably afraid that she would replace Ifrit, which she will).

Anyone saying that we can't have Phoenix because she's "dead" or that Selt'heus has absorbed her aren't thinking of the possibilities of what the avatars are capable of. They have so many loopholes to be able to implement her.

Again, SE is lazy. They probably want to gut this game too haha

[Dreamin]

I also agree on this part. We don't fully summon the avatars; we summon a portion of them. Also they can give us their power whilst dormant/dead because they transcend the confines of us mere mortals. In fact, many of the avatars are dead if you read their lore. Fenrir was dead and he was supposed to be the avatar that saved all of Windurst. Shiva was once an elvaan(i'm assuming simply because of how she looks) Queen that died in her exile after being betrayed by her uncle. Leviathan was killed by himself(the lore explains it!), and so on.

And phoenix is much more powerful then them. SE is just being lazy and not wanting to completely design a good avatar(and they are probably afraid that she would replace Ifrit, which she will).

Anyone saying that we can't have Phoenix because she's "dead" or that Selt'heus has absorbed her aren't thinking of the possibilities of what the avatars are capable of. They have so many loopholes to be able to implement her.

Again, SE is lazy. They probably want to gut this game too haha


Do Windy Nation Mission if you haven't already because ...

Fenrir came back at the end.

[Saiken253]

I have completed all the stories haha... but that somewhat further solidifies an argument that if Fenrir can come back, Phoenix definitely should be able to even though she's been fused into Selt'heus.

I just don't want a gimmick summon like Cait Sith(cause that's what it's going to be) and another lame 2hour summon. I want a powerful summon(definitely replacing ifrit as the fire summon, and could possibly replace garuda for our go-to summon of choice). I'm sure all of us are tired of seeing Garuda as well(and other players). Plus, Phoenix would revitilize people's interest in SMN(and maybe cause more people to support improvement to the job, which needs it badly in a party setting).

[Dreamin]

I agreed. I would rather us get a real useful avatar. Anything but another 'Odin'.

[Teraniku]

Not this again... /sigh






Asking "Why can't we summon Phoenix?" is like asking "Why can't we resurrect Aerith?"

Fixed that for you.

[Saiken253]

And who says unmerging phoenix from selt'heus would result in his death? If he's supposed to be some great protector he isn't doing a very good job haha. I think with enough preparation and utilizing all the great magic that we have available in our realm, we should be able to revive her. Tenzen's country had to sacrifice so many people because they didn't have any other options; we most definitely do where we are.

[Strife]

If Tenzen and his people could restore a fraction of Phoenix's power from killing a few hundred/thousand people couldn't she be fully revived from half the world dying in Abyssea? Yeh I know Shinryu gulped down Selh'tues but we kill Shinryu so all that essence or whatever could be released. There are always ways for a creative writer to work within the mythology of a story and still change the status quo ante. If it's done in a clever way the most exciting part of a story is when what you thought could never happen happens! This is fantasy and fantasy by definition is only limited to your imagination. Besides calling the bird that is the embodiment of resurrection dead and saying we can't have it for that reason just seems silly and incomprehensible to me.

Trying to petition SE by saying lets replace Ifrit with Phoenix will never work, SE has said time and again it is their desire that all avatars be used. The position I would like Phoenix to fill would be that of a healing avatar that also has some decent damage- maybe not the best- on both regular hits and BPs as at the moment I can keep Carby out and do basically no damage or if I use my regular DD Bps I have to switch avatars if I want to do a worthwhile cure which takes to long. Also it doesn't matter how strong your alliance is a raisega AF would be great for those times when someone misses a stun and a mob gets it's move off that wipes half the alliance, especially if that raise comes without weakness or a reduced timer. What I would really love to see though is a new class of summons somewhere between spirits and avatars that have partial autonomy and can cast/ use weaker abilities on their own without costing summoners MP like spirits but can also be forced to use a BP at the cost of MP like avatars. That though is a topic for another forum lol.

[Dohati]

whether she ever gets a physical form in ffxi or not, it sure is neat to imagine! i came up with a couple ideas of how she might look.
http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/Rayiblu418/GuardiansofVanadielcolor.jpg
http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo244/Rayiblu418/selhteusandphoenixcolor.jpg

[Dekusuta]

Or they could just add lvl 95/99 bp tiers on all existing avatars and not have to devote art staff + testing staff to it.

I mean, there's literally a cheap way of adding something to the job that would be embraced by the community and instead SE is dinking around with shitty fenrir/diabolos pacts and elemental changes and telling us to like it.

I remember a few months ago I made the very modest suggestion of allowing stout servant damage reduction to be counted before the 50% pdt is applied so the modifier wasn't halved and I got flamed by some for asking too much. I think I feel entirely justified now because clearly, SE is content giving BSTs everything and SMNs nothing.

[Babekeke]

If we did get Phoenix, it would be a 2 hour only mob. Resurrects all party members with no weakened effect and restores all HP/TP to full.

At best.

Probably wouldn't restore TP. Probably wouldn't allow no weakened. Probably wouldn't restore HP to full.

Yay

[Dohati]

of course i'd want something that can follow me around, but thats better than nothing <.<b when it comes down to it, i just want a physical manifestation of phoenix to be my homie.

[Tannlore]

If I get phoenix I want to have wings and glow like Selh'teus does! :D Make ME the avatar!

[Saiken253]

lol~ a self-manifested summon to make us better than Ukko wars! I say {Yes, please.}

[Xaven]

good thought i love the idea of it. would be nice to have a regain favor. really hope something like this does soon happen D:

[Saiken253]

And you know what? in the early days of FFXI there was(and technically still is) a LOT of story from SMNs. more than probably half the jobs in the game(Or probably closer to all!)! This might be why they haven't added new stuff for SMN and are unwilling to. I would love Phoenix so much, have always loved that summon and it's one of my favorite mythical creatures.

Just wait, SE is secretly developing her as we speak and are going to ninja-add her without saying a word and wait to see how long it takes us to find out haha.(me being blissfully optimistic and wishful)

[Badieh]

Just wait, SE is secretly developing her as we speak and are going to ninja-add her without saying a word and wait to see how long it takes us to find out haha.(me being blissfully optimistic and wishful)

No really... that's what they did to Diabolos.

[Jamesy]

wouldn't phoenix be fire and light elements?

[Saiken253]

@jamesy

Yes, yes she would and I would love it. Been waiting for a fire summon that's worth using and a light avatar that's used for more than healing(sounds like another avatar we have already? :O).

[Kristal]

Phoenix is not dead. The final cutscene from CoP shows that. A single feather falling at Blueblade Fall, looking out over the old Tavnazian Marquisate. (I suspect Phoenix and Tavnazia are linked in a future expansion, possibly the Last Stand, but that theory floats on a single falling feather.)

[Nightstrike]

We where able to revive Fenrir by bringing the whispers together in carbuncles ruby and that was used to help Fenrir regain his strength. So why not something in a similar matter, but still not enough to fully revive Phoenix, but enough for her to lend us her power in the form of a 2 hour only like with Alexander and Odin? Like with the previous games, she comes in, revives/heals, and in some cases put's up auto life(pretty sure this happened in at least one previous game), and deals fire damage to your enemies. And all we see of her is a burning image on the ground in her shape, and maybe a faint ghost like image over it. Or maybe just the ghost image is the first one is to much for the dev team. :P

[Dreamin]

We where able to revive Fenrir by bringing the whispers together in carbuncles ruby and that was used to help Fenrir regain his strength. So why not something in a similar matter, but still not enough to fully revive Phoenix, but enough for her to lend us her power in the form of a 2 hour only like with Alexander and Odin? Like with the previous games, she comes in, revives/heals, and in some cases put's up auto life(pretty sure this happened in at least one previous game), and deals fire damage to your enemies. And all we see of her is a burning image on the ground in her shape, and maybe a faint ghost like image over it. Or maybe just the ghost image is the first one is to much for the dev team. :P

Just say NO to anymore 2hr ONLY Avatar please.

1 Odin is lol enough, we dont need any more 2hr only avatar (we know we're getting another 2hr only avatar on the way already).

[Draylo]

Odin should have been the only 2hr avatar imo.

[Saiken253]

omg please never again suggest another 2hour summon... they're completely useless. Odin is only "good" on trash mobs. Even then, a BLU/BLM/WAR does it way better than what he does. Alexander really should have been a normal avatar; I would suggest that he be completely stationary and give him extended range on all his BPs(at least the BP:Rs), I really wouldn't mind that. It would be sooo much better than what he does now.

The new 2hour summon that we're getting, Atomos, is going to be garbage unless: 80-99% of the mob's stats(and i mean every single stat from attributes to attack bonus, accuracy, mab, DEF, I mean everything) is absorbed and then given to the ENTIRE ALLIANCE. Maybe to keep it somewhat balanced, make the 99% have to use 95~100%(probably 100%) of our mp and scale it down with less MP used. IMO, I believe the rest of our pet's 2hr BP:Rs should have a similar quality in that: every 200 MP that we use above the base requirement to activate our 2hr BP:R we get +5~10 MAB(it costs 198 MP to be able to initiate the BP at 99).

Phoenix would be such a godsend for SMN if she were called as a perpetuated avatar. as for Cait Sith, here's how that avatar is going to be: We unlock it and play around with it, amused by it's cuteness, and realized that(unless it has anything that's worth-while like a regain favor, which is most likely no, and it's abilities bring something that can be utilized like amnesia that actually lands on anything that's not a trash mob) we will then "store it away" and it'll never see the light of day until we want to be amused and go back to using our Nymph/Priestess/Serpent/Giant/Sage(90% the nymph).

Phoenix has so much more potential for SMN than anything else(in this game) that is within the realm of possibility of us obtaining. She is not dead, for she cannot actually be killed. That is her lore.

[Divinechild]

So ive been watching the thread and there seems to be 3 reasons why people think the Pheonix should be kept from us.
Warning this post is riddled with spoilers.

1. She's dead. The game is full of mission and quests where people and even an avatar come back from the dead in some form or another. Examples include Fenrir, those 2 guys from zilart, Eald'narche and his brother, the Kuluu that restored The Book of the Gods,Lilisette(she was wiped outta existance),Ghosts etc i could go on forever. Why can't a mystical creature of Rebirth Be reborn?

2. She's merged with Selh'teus. Again the game is full of creatures/spirits (although usually evil) taking over people's bodies. Usually we fight them and drive the spirit off. But the point is there a way to seperate the 2. Not many examples off the top of my head but that girl from the fellowship quest in feiyin, odin's rider you free him, that guy the shadowlord went into in WotG, can't really think of any more right now.
Since the Pheonix isn't evil she should be able to leave him easily.

3.Altering the storyline, or convenient plot twist just to give us what we want. This is the most rediculous of them all. SE alters the storyline all the time. Hearme out on this one. When we were playing Zilart and CoP how come we never saw a BLU or PuP or Cor walking around or heard any of the NPCs talking about them. So we are to believe they never left Whitegate. And no one heard of them. SE did an expansion and added to the storyline of the game. Same With those maws and WotG they just appeared one day, how come we never saw those. And those Dancer NPCs in Upper jueno and That Pup in Bastok .
All the years of playing and those just appeared. The point i'm just trying to make is that it's a game the story can be expanded upon and changed easily and as SE sees fit.

If they can do that stuff all the time there is no reason why they couldn't continue on to a Phoenix rebirth quest/story addition.

[Saiken253]

Yay someone finally summarized everything i wanted to say!~

<3u Divinechild

[Divinechild]

Yay someone finally summarized everything i wanted to say!~

<3u Divinechild

aww shucks

[Badieh]

So ive been watching the thread and there seems to be 3 reasons why people think the Pheonix should be kept from us.
Warning this post is riddled with spoilers.

1. She's dead. The game is full of mission and quests where people and even an avatar come back from the dead in some form or another. Examples include Fenrir, those 2 guys from zilart, Eald'narche and his brother, the Kuluu that restored The Book of the Gods,Lilisette(she was wiped outta existance),Ghosts etc i could go on forever. Why can't a mystical creature of Rebirth Be reborn?

2. She's merged with Selh'teus. Again the game is full of creatures/spirits (although usually evil) taking over people's bodies. Usually we fight them and drive the spirit off. But the point is there a way to seperate the 2. Not many examples off the top of my head but that girl from the fellowship quest in feiyin, odin's rider you free him, that guy the shadowlord went into in WotG, can't really think of any more right now.
Since the Pheonix isn't evil she should be able to leave him easily.

3.Altering the storyline, or convenient plot twist just to give us what we want. This is the most rediculous of them all. SE alters the storyline all the time. Hearme out on this one. When we were playing Zilart and CoP how come we never saw a BLU or PuP or Cor walking around or heard any of the NPCs talking about them. So we are to believe they never left Whitegate. And no one heard of them. SE did an expansion and added to the storyline of the game. Same With those maws and WotG they just appeared one day, how come we never saw those. And those Dancer NPCs in Upper jueno and That Pup in Bastok .
All the years of playing and those just appeared. The point i'm just trying to make is that it's a game the story can be expanded upon and changed easily and as SE sees fit.

If they can do that stuff all the time there is no reason why they couldn't continue on to a Phoenix rebirth quest/story addition.

Ha ha! HELLO!

[Divinechild]

Ha ha! HELLO!

LoL Badieh, i can't tell if your happy or if its sarcasm.

[Divinechild]

just another example of them altering adjusting storyline
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/20992-CoP-dialogue-no-longer-true.

[Badieh]

LoL Badieh, i can't tell if your happy or if its sarcasm.

Oh no, it's a good thing. It's like when your at church or at a presentation and the speaker says something truthful, or something that everyone needed to here, you say "HELLO!" because you agree with them. A "Hello!" moment.

[Divinechild]

LoL oh Yeah

[Saiken253]

I'm hoping this thread gets enough attention so the devs look at it and at least entertain the tthought of a perpetuated phoenix >.<b

[Dallas]

Kingdom Hearts is an established universe with links to FF, give us Summon Simba.

[Badieh]

Kingdom Hearts is an established universe with links to FF, give us Summon Simba.
.
LOL!

[Saiken253]

eff that~! Give me Tinkerbell! She'll make all the WHMs cry muahahahaha! or or Genie! Grant me the wish of banning Tanaka from FFXI! and giving all SMNs what they want for the job! and lastly for my final wish... improve all the other jobs with what the players are asking for! okgo.(yes i know i could combine 1&2, but i dun feel like separating them)

[Badieh]

Now I kind of feel like pulling out the old Kingdom Hearts game.

[Zinato]

Kingdom Hearts 10th anniversary this year, 3D scheduled sometime in the year. Plus, Japan will be getting a collector's set which I can only guess has Final Mix. I wonder does anyone think Camate knows a guy, who knows a guy, who knows a guy who knows a guy, that could tell the Kingdom Hearts team to please give us those in English as part of the anniversary? Such wonderful improvements to the original games but my brain can only handle foreign mode so long before I get a headache.

[Saiken253]

Wait better yet! Let's summon Cloud. his lvl70BP:R should be Omnislash and is a 8-hit attack that does x5crit damage. mwahahaha

But seriously Phoenix {Yes, please}

[Teraniku]

To put a Phoenix Quest in a nutshell:

1. Get quest from Prishe who states that you need to go see Koru-Moru in Windy about Phoenix.
2. Koru-Moru tells you that Carbuncle wants to restore Phoenix and you need to go to the Summoners Circle in La Theine Plateau to talk to him.
3. Carbuncle tells you to gather the items to create the Astral Rebirth Receptacle. (Gather 3 items then return to Carbuncle to create)
4. Then you need to go to Cid in Bastok to find out where the Airship that Tenzen used Phoenix to save our butts in CoP.
5. Go to Aht Urghan Whitegate to find out where Airship is.
6. You find out that someone is trying to stop you from resurrecting Phoenix and fight their lackey for the 1st piece of Phoenix Force (sorry couldn't resist the X-Men reference)
7. find the other areas and gather / fight to get the Phoenix essence.
8. Take the Completed Astral Rebirth Receptacle to the top of Paradammo Tor in Attowa Chasm (not called the Cradle of Rebirth for nothing lol)
9. Fight phoenix to gain it as an Avatar as per the Avatar fights.
10. Enjoy having another Avatar that you can only use once every 2 hours (more than likely)