Ocelomeh Gear

[Riggs]

Ok looking for help here, is this gear worth it?

I recently bought the head piece and don't notice any difference between it and the af3 +1 head. Sneak attach does hit for a couple of extra points but thats all.

The body armor is selling for 5 mil + and thats allot to spend on some thing that might not be better than the af3 +2 body.

Does any one use these are they worth the price?

[Delvish]

Looking at them both side-by-side, if you have capped gear haste without the body (or can feasibly substitute it elsewhere) I would say the Harness is a better deal. More DEX, equal STR, and Double Attack make it a much nicer piece. The hat though, purely WS use. I believe the bonnet to be better for TP purposes due to Triple+3%. It really depends on the set bonus that I am unfamiliar with. Just eyeballing, I'd say the Ucelomeh gear are both fair macro WS pieces, however the Empyrean +2 set would win out during TP, particularly 5/5 set with the Triple spam.

[noodles355]

I recently bought the head piece and don't notice any difference between it and the af3 +1 head.Welcome to FFXI. 90% of gear upgrades wont make a noticable difference. Do you notice an increase in damage from upgrading +1 head to +2? Or from upgrading Dusk Gloves to Dusk Gloves +1? No, you wouldn't have (and you're kidding yourself if you think you would). The key word is "noticable" - you may not notice an upgrade's addition to your damage, but that doesn't mean it's not there. Just that it's too difficult to see with the naked eye. This is why people use parsers.

In regards to your question, do you not swap gear around when you play thief using macros? Ocelomeh Harness is worse than AF3+2 Body when you're TPing, but it is better than AF3+2 Body during weaponskills. So in answer to your question of which is better: Both. Use Af3+2 for TP and Ocelomeh for WS. There is no reason to only use one of the bodies for both TP AND WS if you have both available - use gear swaps.

For the head, Ocelomeh is better than AF3+1 (1% More Haste, 2 Less Acc), but worse than AF3+2. It is the probably one of the best available heads for SA, TA and SATA. It is also a decent WS piece, however outside abyssea Aias Bonnet is probably better.

You could potentially use Toci's Harness in a TP set with Ocelomeh Headpiece +1, Dusk Gloves +1, AF3+2 Legs and Ryuga/Dusk+1 Feet. But I wouldn't bother with Ocelomeh Harness, it'd be spending millions of gil for almost certainly a side-grade.

[Insaniac]

Ocelomeh gear is a side grade for THF. Get it if you like feathers. I refuse to buy stuff that I know will go down in price but if I did own the +1 head I would only use it for SA/WS. I think Loki's probably beats the body for WS but I will do that math if I ever get a Toci's to use. For now I will pretend it doesn't exist like all VW gear. Short answer: No it's not really worth it if you have anything else to spend gil on.

[noodles355]

Ocelomeh should beat Loki's for Evisceration and Mercy Stroke. It destroys it for Dancing Edge, and I'm unsure on Rudra's Storm. Toci's Harness beats everything for all Thf WS ever. It's just that damn amazing.

I have also been putting off buying Ocelomeh Headpiece. It is an extremely good SA/TA head piece, but the price is still dropping.

[Riggs]

Toci's harness does look amazing but coming from an ls that averages 3 ppl during peak times alas it will never be mine.

I'm actually amazed that there are ls's still out there big enough to do vw, i havent been in an ls that big since about 5 years

[noodles355]

I've had a successful Pil pickup in the past. That was a one-off though. One of the biggest factors towards defeating Pil is taking his shield down. So if you have 3-4 Cors then you should be ok. The Cor's need to be good Cors though with capped/high marksmanship skill and good gear (and wildfire doesn't hurt) otherwise QD will resist and hit for shit.

Incidentally, I've had 3 Aliyat Chakrams from Pil -.- do not want.

[Insaniac]

Ocelomeh should beat Loki's for Evisceration and Mercy Stroke. It destroys it for Dancing Edge, and I'm unsure on Rudra's Storm. Toci's Harness beats everything for all Thf WS ever. It's just that damn amazing.

I have also been putting off buying Ocelomeh Headpiece. It is an extremely good SA/TA head piece, but the price is still dropping.
I think destroys is a strong word. It's really pretty situational for everything but MS and even when it does win it's by a small margin. Yes, I know this is a game of marginal increases but I have had to start counting "annoyance to obtain" and "does it allow me to drop another piece of gear" as a factors in what pieces are better. For what I and I think most THFs use the job for Loki's is just as good. If someone want's to load up a spread sheet and prove me wrong I would be pretty interested in looking at the numbers.

[noodles355]

Destroys is the correct word. Loki's Kaftan is crap for Dancing Edge. AF3+2 is better than Loki's for Dancing Edge. The rest of those statements were based on the spreadsheet. Loki's beats prtty much everything (I didn't bother checking Rudra's Storm).

[Insaniac]

Unstacked DE maybe. I use my Skadi for DE but I only use it unstacked since I have MS.

[noodles355]

Putting it into the spreadsheet now:
Inside abyssea:
Stacked SAWS:
Mercy Stroke: Toci's > Ocelomeh+1 > Ocelomeh > Loki's > Hecatomb +1
Dancing Edge: Toci's > Loki's > Ocelomeh+1 > Skadi >= Ocelomeh
Rudra's Storm: Loki's > Toci's > Ocelomeh+1 > Ocelomeh
Evisceration: Loki's > Toci's > Ocelomeh+1 > Ocelomeh

Unstacked:
Dancing Edge: Toci's > Ocelomeh+1 > Ocelomeh > Skadi
Evisceration: Loki's > Toci's > Ocelomeh+1 > Ocelomeh

Outside Abyssea:
Stacked SAWS:
Mercy Stroke: Toci's > Ocelomeh+1 > Ocelomeh > Hecatomb +1 >= Loki's
Dancing Edge: Toci's > Ocelomeh+1 > Ocelomeh > Loki's >= Skadi
Rudra's Storm: Toci's > Loki's > Ocelomeh+1 > Ocelomeh
Evisceration: Toci's > Ocelomeh+1 > Loki's >= Ocelomeh

Unstacked:
Dancing Edge: Toci's > Skadi > Ocelomeh+1 > Ocelomeh
Evisceration: Toci's > Ocelomeh+1 > Ocelomeh > Loki's

All but Rudra's was with Mandau, Rudra's with Twashtar. So Toci's is absolute No.1 outside abyssea, and Kftan beats it only for Evisceration/Rudra's Storm inside abyssea. I'm surprised Skadi came out ahead of Ocelomeh for unstacked DE to be honest, I wasn't expecting that.

[Insaniac]

Could you post what the actual projected numbers are?

[noodles355]

No because I can't be bothered to re-open spreadsheet, put all combinations in again just to appease you. If you really care then do it yourself.

[Insaniac]

No need to get touchy champ. I was just genuinely curious and I can never get those spreadsheets to work. Just based on what you posted I can tell the difference in most of those situations is very minute. Loki's falls between Toci's and the NQ/+1 in a lot of SA situations which means the difference is less than what could be made by 1 str/dex and 10 att. I'm sure for stacked TAWS loki's wins on everything but maybe mercy stroke.

So, without knowing the actual numbers, inside abyssea, Loki's wins hands down for any non-mandau THF. Outside Toci's pulls ahead but by what looks like a small margin on everything but MS. Consider that Loki's will be better for every WS but maybe MS when stacked with TA and Toci's becomes more situational.

Don't get me wrong I would love to get a Toci's but it's not SOOO much better that I'm going to make Pil PUGs every day until I get one. I consider it a side grade because the truth is another piece of gear is more useful in more WS situations.

[noodles355]

Sorry if the reply sounded hostile or touchy, wasn't intended to be. You're right about Loki's > Rest inside abyssea. Without opening the spreadsheet again (and wasting a microsoft office trial use) I remember off the top of my head that Toci's beat everything else by a significant margin outside abyssea, it wasn't a small boost.

[MiriOhki]

I broke down and got the Ocelomeh headpiece +1 (most expensive piece of gear I've ever bought) to go with the Toci's I finally got the night before last, mostly for my Dancer, since it does have one thing that is almost completely unmatched: +7 haste on a headpiece. Only the Zelus Tiara has more and that's at a -5 evasion. Oce+1 gives you the haste plus all other nice things to go along with it. As it stands, I'm already over the haste cap by an easy margin for Ninja, close to it with Dancer (And that's without haste hands: I usually use Augmented Etoile +2s and Charis +2s macroed in for reverse flourish/weaponskills) and quite a few other jobs can get some good use out of it. I can't really see putting the gil into an Oce. Harness or even a +1, but that headpiece is a very nice little piece of work and though it may be a bit steep in price, it's hard to feel buyer's remorse for shelling out for it, especially if you can luck out on a Toci's.

[Ophannus]

I've only had THF for about 6 months so far but can someone explain to me why Dancing Edge is being mentioned at all? I thought it was inferior to Evisceration and Exenerator?

[SpankWustler]

I've only had THF for about 6 months so far but can someone explain to me why Dancing Edge is being mentioned at all? I thought it was inferior to Evisceration and Exenerator?

Someone exhumed this topic from a dank and dusty crypt. Extenerator didn't exist on the normal servers back in November. Maybe not the test server either, but I'm not so sure there.

[Babekeke]

I've only had THF for about 6 months so far but can someone explain to me why Dancing Edge is being mentioned at all? I thought it was inferior to Evisceration and Exenerator?

Outside abyssea DE > Evis. Personally I always stack Trick with Exen, and SA with Evis inside, and DE outside. Solo, I'll use DE outside or Evis outside, unless I need the acc down from Exen. I don't have RS or MS yet (apart from on lollatantdagger).

[Arcon]

Outside abyssea DE > Evis. Personally I always stack Trick with Exen, and SA with Evis inside, and DE outside. Solo, I'll use DE outside or Evis outside, unless I need the acc down from Exen. I don't have RS or MS yet (apart from on lollatantdagger).

Things have changed a lot since 75, now Evisceration will win on many things outside too. Critical hit rate is generally higher due to the DEX changes, except for VW content. And even without that, gear that boosts both critical hit rate and damage is available in massive quantities, along with THF's natural Critical Attack Bonus trait, which gives a 14% increase to critical hit damage all by itself. Perhaps a stacked Dancing Edge would still win, but even that I'm not sure of. Probably depends on the gear available.

[Babekeke]

Things have changed a lot since 75, now Evisceration will win on many things outside too. Critical hit rate is generally higher due to the DEX changes, except for VW content. And even without that, gear that boosts both critical hit rate and damage is available in massive quantities, along with THF's natural Critical Attack Bonus trait, which gives a 14% increase to critical hit damage all by itself. Perhaps a stacked Dancing Edge would still win, but even that I'm not sure of. Probably depends on the gear available.

I actually had a feeling this might be the case >< I guess for unstacked it probably evens out that DE still wins since not all Evis are going to crit, and those ones are particularly weak.

Back to the topic of Oce+1 head as a tp piece...

In another thread, Karby pointed out that (on the spreadsheet at least) taking 23% haste from gear with 4/5 AF3+2 and Relic+2 feet, actually beats any other capped haste setup...

Looking at the stats if you swap out 3 AF3+2 pieces and replace them with Oce +1 head, Toci's Harness and Brego Gloves the difference in stats compared to Karby's proposed set is:

-5 acc
+10STR
+10att
+3Double Attack
+18AGI
and a nice sphere effect for your friends (and if you're with anyone else wearing the set you move up to 25% haste).

I haven't put them side-by-side in the spreadsheet though, as I can't remember where it was >.>
I should imagine that this setup will come out on top though. The only real downside being no set procs from AF3+2

[Ophannus]

I mean I could kind of see DE being good just cuz not only does it have a higher fTP but it's also an extra hit over Exenerator, but the 85% AGI mod might push DE ahead I guess.