Odin

[Juri_Licious]

I've used Odin 10+ times, and even though i'm near other enemies, i've never seen this move hit more than one target.

Is this due to skill level? Not sure what i'm doing wrong.

[Soranika]

Summoning Magic effects avatar accuracy, however it doesn't save Odin from the very horrible accuracy of his ability when you're using it on more 3+ mobs. Also the conal range is very VERY narrow. So in sort, Odin sucks. You're not doing anything wrong.

[Lilia]

when i start abyss and have no light i have the feeling odin sucks with 1+kills,
but when i have light (near cap) odin kills rly good. Anyone have that too, or i think that only?

[Soranika]

I'm sure atma has mostly something to do with that. I don't really know though. I haven't had a reason to use Odin. In fights where he'd actually be useful, Diabolos' astral flow blood pact surpasses him still.

[Babekeke]

Part of the problem, is that you may not have realised that it is conal, and not 360' AOE. I always try to uyse it at full MP even on trash mobs too, and get ~50% death rate most of the time.
Note: It has a decent range, so the best way to get more mobs inside the cone is to cast from further away.^^

[Juri_Licious]

Just have to say, thank you guys for the help so far it's gladly appreciated.

Now, he's an image below the red dot is suppose to represent the player and the black bars are the cone.
I'm guessing I did the cone right but i'm not sure, I need some kinda diagram on how i'm suppose to utilize this move to it's full potential.

If the graph I did was right, which one is the closest to Odin's "Conal" move?

http://i.imgur.com/70nQR.png

[Soranika]

Gonna have to say the third one unless there's been some changes I don't know about.

[Dreamin]

Easy solution: dont use Odin.

He's completely useless to any NM worth anything. And for regular mobs, there's no reason to use him at all. Even for people who still do Abyssea SMN burn. You'll be better off using regular avatar's 2hr if you feel you must burn that 2hr. The ACC on Odin is such a joke that it really proves SE's main strategy behind VW/WoE drops: RANDOM.

[Papesse]

Odin always deals 5498 damage on the higher tier VWs mobs (Kaggen, Pil etc) at high HP so it is not completely useless, at least in the Voidwatch second chapter.

[Soranika]

Doesn't that account for barely 2% HP at the most for them though? Seems only justifiable if time is running dangerously low and you're on the last one for the day/night.

[Papesse]

More 3-4% but even if it could deal 9999 it will still be very situational, as are most if not all of the 2h in the game.

[Malamasala]

Doesn't that account for barely 2% HP at the most for them though? Seems only justifiable if time is running dangerously low and you're on the last one for the day/night.

Odin only works at start of fights since it is % of current HP. So it can never be used in emergencies during a fight, only as an opener to kill something faster.

[Rukkirii]

I sent off your feedback regarding Odin’s accuracy and the range of his ability to the dev. team. They informed us that they do not have plans to increase the accuracy or the range due to the fact that his ability instantly kills enemies. They would like players to use this ability depending on the situation, such as whether to take the risk of reduced accuracy because of multiple enemies or have a higher chance at landing if there is just one enemy.

[Alhanelem]

I sent off your feedback regarding Odin’s accuracy and the range of his ability to the dev. team. They informed us that they do not have plans to increase the accuracy or the range due to the fact that his ability instantly kills enemies. They would like players to use this ability depending on the situation, such as whether to take the risk of reduced accuracy because of multiple enemies or have a higher chance at landing if there is just one enemy.
The dev team needs to understand that the rest of the avatar 2-hour abilities can also instant kill many enemies- they however do not miss when hitting more than one target.

[Soranika]

That's saddening news.... In most applications where Odin might be useful, Diabolos comes out doing better or just no real purpose to use either of them under Astral Flow.... ever. Could at least increase the amount of damage dealt to NMs to break past 9999 dmg barrier. It's been proven that we can deal over that amount.

[Deadvinta]

The Devs need to realize that if they're going to make a TWO-HOUR RECAST ABILITY be hit-or-miss, they need to have something to fall back on for the miss. Why cant Zantesuken just do darkness damage if it misses, like when trying to use him on many bosses in previous Final Fantasy titles.

[Dais]

I sent off your feedback regarding Odin’s accuracy and the range of his ability to the dev. team. They informed us that they do not have plans to increase the accuracy or the range due to the fact that his ability instantly kills enemies. They would like players to use this ability depending on the situation, such as whether to take the risk of reduced accuracy because of multiple enemies or have a higher chance at landing if there is just one enemy.
Thank you for conveying this to the devs so quickly Rukkirii. Even if their answer is unsatisfactory it helps to know they have heard what we have to say.

I'm really not sure why they insist on making the accuracy of zantuseken so low. Do they really expect us to be pleased with using our 2hour on ONE pact instead of three, using ALL our remaining mp, and still having the attack kill only a single -maybe two if your lucky- monsters with under 10,000 hp. To me that is only really useful against extremely high level non-nm uragnites. Any astral flow other than alexander is already a corner case situation, why must they be bad even is the rare times they get a chance to shine?

[Soranika]

Maybe it proves Odin was just a fanservice for us to shut up about "SE, y u no give us new avatars?"

[Cabalabob]

I sent off your feedback regarding Odin’s accuracy and the range of his ability to the dev. team. They informed us that they do not have plans to increase the accuracy or the range due to the fact that his ability instantly kills enemies. They would like players to use this ability depending on the situation, such as whether to take the risk of reduced accuracy because of multiple enemies or have a higher chance at landing if there is just one enemy.

fair enough on the accuracy, i can understand not wanting to just throw acc at us for instant death, but we should at least be able to enhance it through our own methods, i used odin with 3 m.acc atmas and pet: m.acc equipment and out of 10~ mobs it only effected 6 and hit 3, so either odin isn't affected by atma or he's not affected by m.acc.

as for not improving the range, that makes no sense, they want us to choose whether to use it on one mob or multiple mobs, WELL THEN LET US USE IT ON MULTIPLE MOBS! we don't actually get that choice cause even if the mobs are standing shoulder to shoulder the mob you targeted is still the only one that's in range.

if they insist on keeping it the way it is, it's just not worth having it on a 2hr timer, what we have is a blindfolded guy on a horse swinging a sword around and rampart II. they should be put on a separate ability like BLU's unbridled learning with a 10 min recast tops.

[Dreamin]

Maybe it proves Odin was just a fanservice for us to shut up about "SE, y u no give us new avatars?"

Exactly my view regarding Odin and our 2hr abilities in general. They clearly have no idea how typical SMN feels about SMN's 2hr (Alexander being the only real useful thing out of all now).

[Soranika]

Exactly my view regarding Odin and our 2hr abilities in general. They clearly have no idea how typical SMN feels about SMN's 2hr (Alexander being the only real useful thing out of all now).
Yeah. I really feel like there's absolutely no reason for Astral Flow to be so horrible. It detracts from what SMN have stood for in pretty much every FF game to date... Except XII and XIII.... they handled summoning HORRIBLY in my opinion. Maybe it stems to the concept of the way SMN are from XI.

[Dekusuta]

Yeah. I really feel like there's absolutely no reason for Astral Flow to be so horrible. It detracts from what SMN have stood for in pretty much every FF game to date... Except XII and XIII.... they handled summoning HORRIBLY in my opinion. Maybe it stems to the concept of the way SMN are from XI.

Summoner's can't be too powerful because it will break the game.

I think with the recent game changes, instead of making avatars like Odin that at one point in 2009 was all the rage because it would deal 9999 damage and knock 10% off the grind NMs to speed up kills, they should revise summoners to be more self sufficient and boost astral flow as an extended ability.

So shift the discussion away from (the next wasted 2hr Astral flow avatar with 1 buff or 1 ability) to a more powerful class of avatars that can be used for an extended period of time with the use of Astral flow.

Imagine Odin with regular summon perp, summonable only with Astral Flow, but sticks around for the duration until he is killed, dealing decent damage, perhaps with certain Wards and Rage pacts that are considered 'useful' to the group.

That would make Odin useful and AF useful and desirable without breaking the game.

Now, apply this idea to other new avatars.

[Soranika]

It's not about being too powerful through. It's about doing the relative proportionate damage. I'd be fine right now at 95 if an astral flow blood pact does 3 to 3.5k of unresisted damage to a regular mob that's weak to it. 2k to 2.5k at the most against NMs weak to the element of the per astral flow blood pact. When you consider the average damage (I don't have the math on this. >< Can refer to others for it.) on average blood pacts, it's not to much to ask for them to do at least 500 - 1k more damage over average blood pacts with out consideration of blood boon. I shouldn't be doing 2.6k average with a merit blood pact and 1.5k with an astral flow.

On to that, I some what agree. I don't mind having 3 minutes to control avatars like Odin under astral flow vs just one use per 2hrs (or less with COR 2hr, revits, or ISL in abyssea). Honestly, if he could prove his worth over other avatars, I wouldn't care if we couldn't even control his actions directly with a set AI. Go in, trample stuff, use one or two blood pacts then finish with the two hour ability if he's uncontested some what like the espers in FFXI. That would make him unique enough in his own right. Of course, that would never happen. Apparently Odin is useful some where, according to the Rep. I guess it comes down to figuring out where.

[Dekusuta]

I haven't used Odin in a long time, but does it still take up to 10% damage on most NMs?

[Soranika]

I haven't used Odin in a long time, but does it still take up to 10% damage on most NMs?
I think that's 10% at the most and those are generally weak to dark element. Kinda working off what I've been told. I used Odin against an NM once and cried. D:

[Dekusuta]

I think that's 10% at the most and those are generally weak to dark element. Kinda working off what I've been told. I used Odin against an NM once and cried. D:

Yeah Odin is most effective when NM is fresh as the damage formulae appears to be based on actual HP not total HP and it appears to decrease in damage exponentially below HP% thresholds. Unscientific but when we used to Odin spam certain NMs, NM below 80% health is usually see weak returns.

That said, 3-4 SMNs have opened Odin against Odin (Einherjar) before and we took 15~25% off (I can't remember if it was 15 or 25%) but it did shorten our run significantly.

I'm just not sure how the rules are now.

[Clou777]

easy fix for odins 2hr.... change it altogether so odins usual 2hr is darkness AoE like all the other avatars but has a chance to instant kill, say for example you use odin to deal darkness aoe to a group of 10 mobs, and ends up with 7 mobs taking darkness dmg and 3 of them being instant killed, can also use it this way for single mobs like having a 30% chance of instant kill and 70% chance dmg. NM targets obviously only take darkness dmg.

there ya go... FIX

[Zemarin]

Seriously are ppl nit-picking? None of the suggestions will make odin any better and nothing is wrong with it to begin with. His narrow path is better, helping him not miss on humungous pulls. Odin is better to use for killing slept adds that you didn't want than any other avatar. IF any avatars need a change its the celestial ones >_>

Also i think he was designed the way he is so 4-10 scrub smns cant just role in and take off 40% of a nms hp that would be dumb, I'm glad he dont turn nms into easy mode >_>.

[Malamasala]

Maybe it proves Odin was just a fanservice for us to shut up about "SE, y u no give us new avatars?"

No. Odin was to give us "New avatars that can stay out longer", don't you see it? At least that was what we all were waiting for those 2 years it took to add them.

[Dreamin]

Seriously are ppl nit-picking? None of the suggestions will make odin any better and nothing is wrong with it to begin with. His narrow path is better, helping him not miss on humungous pulls. Odin is better to use for killing slept adds that you didn't want than any other avatar. IF any avatars need a change its the celestial ones >_>

Also i think he was designed the way he is so 4-10 scrub smns cant just role in and take off 40% of a nms hp that would be dumb, I'm glad he dont turn nms into easy mode >_>.

Yup, ain't nothing wrong with Odin in that my regular BP will do more dmg on a more consistent basis without it being a once every 2 hr ability.

In any meaningful cases where an SMN 2 hr ability is called upon now, it would be for Alexander and wont be Odin.