Ideas for DRG updates [Archive] - FINAL FANTASY XI Forum

Ophannus

03-13-2011, 01:18 PM

1) Change the formula of Elemental Breath to only factor in MAX HP, like Healing Breath instead of Current HP. It's unreasonable to keep the Wyvern at maximum HP for high Elemental breath numbers. Instead make the ACCURACY of Elemental breath depend on wyvern current HP instead of its potency.

2) Give Wyverns the same -50% PDT that Avatars have. Aren't dragon scales/skin supposed to be one of the most durable things in Fantasy games? If not that, give Wyverns like 3 or 4 tiers of Stout Servant. Avatars take 50% less physical damage but they are resummonable at a very low cost, Wyverns have low HP and are a 20 minute recast.

3) Cap the amount of HP Spirit Link uses to heal your Wyvern such that the amount of HP Spirit Link takes from the Dragoon can NEVER exceed how much the Wyvern is healed by. The current Spirit Link formula will eat 400-500 HP from the Dragoon even if the Wyvern is at 99% HP. If I want to change to Wyvern HP gear and Spirit Link 150 HP for my next Smiting Breath, I don't want to sacrifice 400-700of my own HP to heal 150 of my Wyvern's. Normally Spirit Link multiplies the amount of HP it takes and adds to the Wyvern such that if you have 2HP you can still Spirit Link for like 70-100, but it's lame if the wyvern is 999/1000 HP and you SL to heal 1 HP but lose 600 HP.

4) Make Restoring Breath targetable. It's so annoying that Restoring Breath activates on the Wyvern, then the AI heals the person in your party with the lowest Current/Max HP ratio. If I'm in a party and the RDM converts and the party gets hit with an AoE Restoring Breath will target the RDM instead of a melee. Since the RDM's out of range the skill fails and I have to wait 60 seconds. Let us target party members with it so it isn't wasted.

5) "Soothing Breath"- Commands your wyvern to remove a status ailment. Removes Poison/Blind/Paralyze on target party member.

6) During Spirit Surge, allow Spirit Jump and Soul Jump to be enhanced as if the Wyvern is still alive. Since we fuse with the wyvern, there's no reason why these two Jumps should be weaker than Jump/High jump. Also add secondary enhanced effects to these jumps during Spirit Surge. Jump adds Def Down, High Jump erases all TP and Super Jump negates 50% of the enmity of the person behind you. Add cool effects to the new Jumps too.

7) Pommel Bash- Delivers an attack that can stun the target. Requires a Polearm. Seriously the other 3 Knight classes have a 'bash' 'circle' and 'killer' 'breaker' ability but we still lack a 'bash' move that stuns.

8 ) Make another JA besides Spirit Surge that incorporates the 'Holy Crest'. Seriously the whole Holy Crest thing was a HUGE plot point in the DRG quest and it's almost completely ignored in our skill set.

Burmecia

03-13-2011, 01:29 PM

I really like these ideas. They aren't unrealistic either in my opinion, and I know I've wished for some similar updates to dragoon akin to the ones you've posted up (namely a dragoon stun ability, though I imagined it to be a type of jump personally).

What do you imagine as an ability for your 8th suggestion though?

CrystalWeapon

03-13-2011, 02:00 PM

/agree. I was actually thinking about the whole defense idea you had when I read over the other thread about aoe's wiping wyverns. These are actually really decent ideas for improving the job.

Zigou

03-13-2011, 09:11 PM

/Agreed too , nice ideas there , and really hope Se will look into this.

All are usefull, and so few as been done last few years to improve our Pet, please SE <3

Ophannus

03-13-2011, 11:18 PM

For the 8th suggestion I was thinking of something like an AoE Attack Speed Boost that stacks with other haste and just provides a free 5-10% attack speed bonus without affecting TP gain like Hasso for players in range. It could last 30 seconds like Conspirator/Warcry/Blood Rage/Rampart with a 5 minute recast.

Anucris

03-15-2011, 12:28 AM

love the ideas and ill add a few. throw in a bad breath type attack for the wyvern, make "strafe" increase breath potency (i.e. 10%/merit, seems like a lot but your 200 flame breath would only go up to 300 with maxed merits/370 w/right gear and maybe a decent 600+ when u have DB ready). as far as accuracy goes they rarely do much more damage because of the natural weakness of the wyverns breath attack.
and sure smiting is once a minute, but the natural delay to u and your wyvern along with it being as weak as a regular wyvern attack makes no reason to use it.

Anucris

03-15-2011, 01:56 PM

Im also going to throw in replacing the "food effect" bonus on empyrean body armor given to wyvern. I see this as pretty lame and really never use food anymore. This is where there could be a "Wyvern HP +20%, Damage Taken -25%, Dragoon PDT -20%, Enhances Wyvern Breath (HB4,EBII)" or even adds regen 10/tic and regain 5/tic effects to wyvern

Actually gives me an idea. Wyvern could really use a regain passive trait that goes up with levels 1/tic more per 20 levels so 1/tic at lvl 1, 2 at 20, 3 at 40, 4 at 60, and 5 at 80+

Wolfe

03-15-2011, 05:10 PM

1) This is something that not many people even acknowledge, one of those small tweaks that can make a HUGE difference.

2) DRG should be able to call their wyvern every 10 minutes. That 20 minute recast timer might have been a HUGE improvement back when it was originally their 2 hour ability. But wyvern are able to die a LOT more easily now. A DRG has to kill themselves to keep their wyvern alive so that they can utilize their new jumps AND keep up with the damage that other jobs are putting out. Without a wyvern, most DRG are useless. Especially with the new jumps.

3) That is something that I have always hated about the Spirit Link ability. I generally have to ask a mage to fully heal me so that I can Spirit Link, then get fully healed, again. Redundant much?

4) It's also an issue that if you use this and the monster dies before it gets pulled off, the ability "fizzles." Which can make or break a live or dead DRG.

5) Only downfall here is you can be paralyzed when using it, and so can your wyvern if they have paralyze on them as well. So you get to have two times to hope that it gets pulled off without being paralyzed. That could prove to be incredibly annoying.

6) That is something that they should have thought of right from the release of the new jumps. It just makes sense.

7) No, we get Leg Sweep... Yeah, I am kind of embarrassed that I said that.

8 ) What's "Holy Crest?"

I know I have heard about it for years, and there are .dat mods that people have for PC already, where you can change your wyverns color. This just makes sense. You can change the name, why not color? Make it official already, even if you have to do a stupid quest for it, I know I would. Puppetmasters can change the color/equipment of their automatons. And why is it that your wyvern never grows up, even a little? Why not make DRG transform into a dragon like creature when they use their 2 hour. They are supposed to merge together, right?

And make the 2 hour abilities last longer for DRG, if you are not going to reset the recast timer for "Call Wyvern," at least make the 2 hour a little more worth it.

Scenario: I just got into a party, one of the noobs just aggroed a bunch of mobs, I know I can take them, but I have to 2 hour to save my life.

GREAT! I survived...

Now my wyvern is gone for another 15 minutes...

Was it worth it? Yes, I didn't die. But I might as well have a 15 minute weakened status on me.

EDIT: And what is up with Healing Breath III? You learn it at level 40... And that's it. That is the best curing ability you get from your wyvern? Comparable to a Cure III, even being able to cast it repeatedly at level 90 with Restoring Breath, you gave DRG a Cure III with a 60 second recast timer at level 90. Try saying that out loud, because I know it may have sounded good on paper, but when you say it out loud, it just sounds insulting.

Bladewolf

03-15-2011, 08:48 PM

Koj

03-15-2011, 10:48 PM

I love your idea of soothing breath! On the other hand there could be an enfeebling breath such as malboros : Bad Breath!

Gorp

03-16-2011, 02:47 AM

EDIT: And what is up with Healing Breath III? You learn it at level 40... And that's it. That is the best curing ability you get from your wyvern? Comparable to a Cure III, even being able to cast it repeatedly at level 90 with Restoring Breath, you gave DRG a Cure III with a 60 second recast timer at level 90. Try saying that out loud, because I know it may have sounded good on paper, but when you say it out loud, it just sounds insulting.

Wyrm armet, or saurian helm, both give the equivalent of HB4. Now when my wyvern is fully xp lvl'd in a zone, he will HB me for around 800 hp, without equipping any other wyvern hp+ gear. With wyv hp gear, I can get it to 1k easy. That means I can, in abyssea, get around 1/3 of my hp back every 60 seconds from my wyvern...

I doubt we will ever see another tier of HB, that is one thing that will unbalance the DRG job. If you think your HB is weak, go get some wyvern hp+ gear and buy yourself a new hat. Macro stuff in for restoring breath and you'll be a lot happier.

I'd personally like to see improved wyvern "remove" breaths for /mage - poison, blind, paralyze are fine, but I'd really like remove silence :)
I can see them giving us a /ja that would allow non-/mage to remove breath. making /mage pretty much redundant, but we'll see.
But yeah, some sort of quest path that modded the wyvern's model in game would be nice. Colour alone would be something, but I'd much rather he got a bit bigger ;)

Anucris

03-16-2011, 10:09 AM

umm i use saurian helm with a bit of wyv HP gear and get mid 400-high 500's usually i dunno where ur getting 800 and 1k. with DB i maybe can get 1k, I dont think HB4 would be unbalanced considering how hard mobs hit in abyssea and endgame areas. its not surprising to be hit for 150-350 on average. and u can barely make that up with a somewhat "slow" HB (we already must be Half health. how much more of a gimp u want?)... our job just isnt very soloable anymore. + there are so many status effects that ruin the fragility of being able to activate your HB and /nin is too risky to avoid those status effects. the solo capabilities was my fav part of drg. lately ive just felt too reliant on others.
fighting a rabbit in abyssea the other day soon as i hit 1/2 hp i got smacked with a tp move and 1 immediate hit after finished me before HB got off....it was a sad day.

Wolfe

03-16-2011, 05:56 PM

Maxbebop

03-17-2011, 06:08 AM

I remember back in FanFest 06, an idea to equip thw wyvern with armor was given, and the Dev team replied that it was a good idea and they were gonne try to do it, where is it? i know i can equip my pup with attachments, why cant we equip armor to our wyvern to enhance its abilities or something similar to pup? i would like to see something like that in the future..

Ophannus

03-17-2011, 03:45 PM

We don't need wyvern armor, our wyverns are floating D50 swords that are fairly accurate and add damage on top of our already stellar damage. Making breath damage static with accuracy based on Max HP would heighten overall damage from breaths per weapon skill. Wyverns get acc bonus III from the virtue of having DRG as a main job so their acc is pretty decent. Instead of adding stupid armor which they already said wouldn't have anything visual due to animation/ps2 limitations, give us a trait at level 95 called 'Heraldry' that adds stats from equipment to wyvern(HP/MP don't transfer, but STR/DEX/VIT/AGI/INT/MND/CHR/EVA/ATT/ACC/Haste/ will, transfering traits like double attack and store TP complicate things and could be abused so just limit it to base/standard attributes leaving out special attributes and traits as well as HP/MP for balance purposes. This would give a tremendous boost to wyvern defense.

The only thing wyverns need otherwise is a -50% damage taken trait like avatars to make them more resistant to aoe attacks. Or since avatars get -50% physical damage, give wyverns -50% magic damage. Or maybe make it so that 'if wyvern receives damage from an attack and is not the main target of the attack, damage taken is significantly reduced.' So AoE attacks which aren't centered on the wyvern are weakened on the wyvern.

OMEGA_HACK

03-19-2011, 04:17 PM

I agree I wish there would be gear that enhances the Wyvern that the wyvern can equip.

Some effects on the armor could be basic ones:
Haste+
Subtle Blow+
HP+
TP Bonus+
Att+
Acc+
Magic Att+
Magic Acc+

As well as more unique ones:
Healing Breath Potency+
Elemental Breath Potency+
Breath casting time- (faster triggering)
Healing Breath delay- (recast timer)
Elemental Breath delay- (recast timer)

Even if it were only 4 pieces of the Wyvern that had armor (Head, Tail, Body, Wings) it would be better than nothing. Also it might allow the DRG's armor to actually focus more on enhancing the DRG and his/her abilities than having to 50/50 everything with their Wyvern for mediocre increases.

I agree while the "Wyvern gets food effect" is pretty unique and special, it really lacks in terms of potency in comparison to the other Empyrean sets for the other jobs. I would've rather seen Wyvern Regain+5, Healing/Elemental Breath Potency+25%, or something else that is more direct.

But back to the OP, I agree with just about all that is listed. I feel that the Holy Crest idea is lost after the DRG quest, we see it when we 2hr (I assume that is the Holy Crest that shines around us) but even spirit link (Holy Crest that binds the Dragoon with the Wyvern) doesn't even show case the Holy Crest in the animation...

I honestly would be on the fence with HB4 though, HB3 can potentially hit in the 1k (my highest being 1.2k) relatively easily with the introduction of Abyssea and the newer gear with the Wyvern HP+ and Breath potency+ gear. But I would love it if we got Elemental Breath II, and I feel it's something that we could use to help even us out on dmg.

Anyways thats the end of my spiel.

Anucris

03-20-2011, 09:18 AM

revising the "wyvern granted food effects" ability on empyrean body armor would be amazing as it is now it irritates me to cross-eyed rage as its sooooo lame and i dont use food. if i did it would only be for my wyvern of which i will see little to no change. the food effects idea was Horrible! I mean most of us get nothing from it.

Sonshou

03-23-2011, 12:30 PM

For me, I like to see an alternative way to restore wyvern HP other than Spirit Link.

I think Spirit Link is too radical, deal a spike damge to the dragoon to restore wyvern HP.

I like to see a Dot version of Spirit Link, let say transfer 50/100HP a tick to wyvern and will break upon wyvern HP is full.

wise use for both spike dmg and dot dmg to restore wyvern can help both the dragoon and the healer in pt.

I don't even mind if both share a same timer.

Ophannus

03-24-2011, 09:28 AM

Honestly Lancer's Plackart +2 is one of the best, if not the best body piece for any melee right now. The 'Grants Wyvern Food Effect' is a nice bonus that didn't have to be there honestly. How is it lame? Giving your wyvern 6-8 STR and +90 attack or +HP for Breath potency when solo seems pretty awesome to me.

Ophannus

03-24-2011, 09:34 AM

I just thought of the best way to fix Wyvern survival issues. Make Call Wyvern a variable recast based on level and let us 'charge' "Call Wyvern" like Strategems.

Call Wyvern
Level 1: 20 Minute Recast; 1 Charge.

Level 50: 15 minute Recast; 2 Charges.

Level 90: 10 minute Recast; 3 Charges.

I think this is fair. So at level 90 you could hold 3 Call Wyvern charges plus the one you have out.

Anucris

03-24-2011, 11:58 AM

umm not bad I think the charges alone would be good or the time alone. and I've come around on the food effect even though its not always so great it is nice.

Madheo

03-24-2011, 05:37 PM

One thing i wanted to see for years is the wyvern grow up... wyvern seems so small for an hi lvl !

Thinking of a cap50 solo BCNM for a medium wyvern after some kind of quest, like SMN20 and avatars fights, you could train your wyvern VS another wyvern and it could take its medium form 24h after... This could be the moment to learn new abilities too...

Next and last step @ lvl 90 or 95 would be great to complete the job with another quest, and an alliance fight vs a wyrm and take its final form at next tailly... It could have its best breath ability and maybe could have some pet command as BST, PUP or SMN...

Ophannus

03-25-2011, 01:43 AM

I would like to see the Wyvern grow up but not get much larger just because it's distracting to have a giant dragon following you all the time that would obscure view. Perhaps if they just become lengthier and more fearful looking instead of cute and squishy, just as long as they're not literally a Seiryu following you around.

Madheo

03-25-2011, 06:19 AM

Not a wyrm behind you, but having sont kind of longer horn, spikes on tail and back and i'd say 2x longer body

Evilaion

04-04-2011, 07:17 AM

Going to be a real slap in the face if all we get when we reach level 99 is the ability to change our wyverns color. I mean yea its nice but if people are only asking and spaming about color/size that is all we are going to get.

Lets talk about ability and traits/merits etc.

Merit Ability - Speed Surge <Name Taken from FFXIV>. Haste +4%/Att+15/Vit +7.(For dragoon and wyvern)
Duration: 3mins
Recast: 15mins
Each Merit Lowers Recast by 2mins 30 secs

Lancer: Non-Elemental Attack does double damage(Based off Attack/Str). Damage is then converted into HP/MP
Recast: 5mins
Duration: Instant

Ophannus

04-04-2011, 11:00 PM

We won't get Lancet.
English: Spirit Surge
Japanese: 竜剣
Romanji: Ryuuken.
Translation: Dragon Sword

Ryuuken is what Lancer/Lancet/DragonSword were called in the Japanese versions of FF9/FF10/FF5 respectively, so Spirit Surge=Lancet/Lancer.

Evilaion

04-06-2011, 02:21 AM

K. Just rename it something else.

Swords

07-04-2011, 03:43 AM

Dunno if anyones mentioned it already, but would it be considered unreasonable to want Restoring/Smiting Breath abilities to work with the Wyrm Armet.

Reiterpallasch

07-04-2011, 08:46 PM

Dunno if anyones mentioned it already, but would it be considered unreasonable to want Restoring/Smiting Breath abilities to work with the Wyrm Armet.

Seeing as they already work with wyrm armet (and all other forms of breath enhancement, wyvern HP+ etc), I'd say no, not unreasonable at all.

Swords

07-05-2011, 01:18 AM

I guess I was just having a bugged instance that night then, tried it on more than a few occasions with the wyrm armet equipped and the bloody thing always used healing breath III, so I just assumed it didn't work. XD

Reiterpallasch

07-05-2011, 06:57 PM

Healing Breath III is as high as it goes, whether you use the armet or not. This applies to both procing as /mage as well as through restoring breath.

Kaiichi

07-06-2011, 06:03 PM

Okay 1st off, no, just no. Live the little guy the same size. I don't need/want eveyone with a pet Fafner. as for the origanal OP, I like the ideas. But how about lowering the lv of the breath commands? really? it takes 90 levels to finnaly ask, "hey little one, you think you can toss me a cure?" + why done we get anything 50 to 75? that 25 lvs of the same old stuff. maybe atk bouns 2?
Oh, and just to put this out there, when the lv 90+ merits come out, can we merit pets? Plz?

P.S. sorry if this came off rude... but a lager wyvern is more fail than a moogle only job in a poorly made FFT.

noodles355

07-10-2011, 05:49 PM

Anucris

07-11-2011, 01:02 PM

umm not bad I think the charges alone would be good or the time alone. and I've come around on the food effect even though its not always so great it is nice.

umm noodles355 did u not see this comment over 3 months ago? at the time i just didnt use food anymore, but after trying it out some it seemed well worth it. so stop sucking and read the info before u post. + full emp +2 is not gimp

noodles355

07-12-2011, 02:23 PM

umm noodles355 did u not see this comment over 3 months ago? at the time i just didnt use food anymore, but after trying it out some it seemed well worth it. so stop sucking and read the info before u post. + full emp +2 is not gimp
If you fulltime it, it is. You could be geared out of your asshole, but if you can't utilise the gear affectively then you are still a gimp.
Note: this is a statement on the argument "full +2 is not gimp", and is in no way a comment on whether you use your gear effectively or not.

Diemond

07-18-2011, 07:01 AM

DRG
every jump should have its own timer. this will enhance drg DD capability and make the jumps more of a for front of the job.
Parry rate for lance should be higher
Wyvern
implement a slot system for wyvern like the one for pup's. I would love to armor up my little guy. using synergy to create armor with various color options to personalize our partners. give our wyvern 4-6 slots to add pieces that have benefits such as: add HP, add DEF, add double att, add magic def, enhance wyvern breath....etc

being that wyverns are flying creatures. I would like to see them stop taking damage from ground strike type aoe's. this also goes for drg's in mid highjump and soul jump

Coldbrand

07-18-2011, 02:09 PM

All of these are actually pretty good ideas that shouldn't be difficult to implement.

noodles355

07-21-2011, 09:09 PM

Mookie

07-25-2011, 11:23 PM

Yeah status ailment breathes would be soooo cool. Paralyzing breath, Petra breath, slow breath, blinding breath. Depending on what you subbed your wyvern would give different breaths.

/war = Att down Breath
/drk = Paralyzing breath
/thf = gravity breath
/nin = slow breath
/mnk = blind breath
/pld = Def down breath
and so on...

Anucris

07-26-2011, 12:28 PM

everybody macro's gear. comments that are not common sense please. and unless ur macroing for WS, HB u should have +2 on. i love hitting for 1400-1900 every now and then (10% comes more often than u think). the bonus on full +2 is great.

Anucris

07-27-2011, 03:09 AM

Not to mention the individual bonuses per piece. I actually wouldn't even bother someone who Did full time it. Ur only counter argument would've a full haste set in which case most mobs go down in 3-4 attack rounds at the most so full haste is only necessary in longer fights. Congrats to all drg with full +2. And sorry if u don't have it noodles

noodles355

07-29-2011, 02:51 PM

Ur only counter argument would've a full haste set in which case most mobs go down in 3-4 attack rounds at the most so full haste is only necessary in longer fights.LOL
whitetext

Anucris

07-30-2011, 06:05 AM

Glad I made my point. Btw 4 of the 5 pieces were in ur ideal WS set. I don't have twilight helm or I'd use it also.

noodles355

07-30-2011, 04:25 PM

If you're point was you're an idiot and don't know why haste is worthwhile even at low numbers or on quick fights, then yes, you made your point.

Anucris

07-31-2011, 03:03 PM

seriously u think haste makes much difference on a 2-3 swing fight.... sure its worthwhile and everyone needs a haste set, but theres no reason care so much about pple running around with only 18% haste, i saw a 90 drg today with a lvl 77 lance. i wasnt mad at em. i felt sorry for em. i always liked helpin other drg out

noodles355

08-01-2011, 05:30 PM

Being the best you can for a DD = being able to kill mobs as quickly as possible. That's it. Even if a fight only takes 2-3 sings per melee, if the melees are at 26% haste, they will kill it faster than if they were at 18% haste.

Generalisations, exceptions exist etc, but over time they will average faster fight times. A proper haste set increases your damage than using 5/5 AF3+2. It has been tested and proven. It's even obvious just from doing some basic maths of the stats, yet you still use 5/5 Af3+2. You're using worse armor than stuff which is easilly available just because it's rare. Essentially, you're wearing a big purple denali bonnet. If you think shit rare item > good common item, then you're already a lost cause.

You helping other drgs out sounds like the blind leading the blind.

Reiterpallasch

08-02-2011, 07:37 PM

10% comes more often than u think
Well, actually (this is gonna blow your mind) it comes 10% of the time. But you TP in 5/5 AF3+2, so not like you know any better.

Anucris

08-10-2011, 09:39 PM

Yeah I like my stronger and DA +4% gloves over my aces most of the time. So what. The set is very nice. And if u think it's crap then don't get it. And yeah 10% is 10%. That's such an intelligent comment and never said I always tp in 5/5. I said everyone needs a haste set. I could pop on 30%+ haste if it wasn't capped. Point is I don't gripe at pple who do. Do u argue just to argue or something

noodles355

08-11-2011, 09:58 AM

Well you said "10% comes more often than you think". I think 10% comes 10% of the time, so it obviously doesn't come more often than I think on average does it?

You basically just said "I like wearing my Denali Bonnet. So what?" we're not arguing for the sake of arguing. We're arguing with you because it's not ok to say "This more difficult to obtain, but worse option is ok". That's what you're doing. You can buy Dusk Gloves and perle legs off the AH for dirt cheap. Suggesting it's ok to use AF3+2 for TP over those is just wrong. They are worse. The problem is when you say It's ok to do so, other people who come and read the forum will think it's ok too.

tl;dr It's not cool to say "i'm ok with gimping my damage so I can wear something shiney and rare, so you can to!" Just cus you are happy being a gimp doesn't mean you should lead other people down the same path.

You may like to gimp yourself by using something rarer and shiney but don't bring other people down with you.

Ophannus

08-11-2011, 11:45 AM

AF3+2 gloves might be useful in the future for TPing if new gear comes out and we can make up the haste loss in another slot, but until then, Timarli or Dusk+1 are better.

Ophannus

08-11-2011, 11:47 AM

Back on topic, it'd be nice if Wyverns got a trait that acts as a permanent Migawari effect. If the dmg dealt to the wyvern exceeds like more than 75% of it's max HP, damage is anulled(which wouldn't be much considering how low its HP is)

Anucris

08-11-2011, 09:11 PM

Anucris

08-11-2011, 09:24 PM

Migawari effect is ok. But in the end -DT might be a little better because now ur worried about being 2 shotted. And I ur in the fray fighting those aoe it can happen often. Of course u can be 2 shotted with -DT but every hit will do less. Those aoe that take 4-6 probably wont kill it wyv the whole fight. I dunno tho cause the migawari effect is like not even being hit. This will take a little more thought but good idea

Ophannus

08-13-2011, 12:04 AM

Have just been spamming empyrean item NMs the past week and I've realized DRG doesn't need a dmg buff. From Drakesbane spam with 5hit+Corsesca+2 build I still rip hate off VS MNKs and Ukon WARs especially when the WAR is getting hit+losing hate and I follow up with a triple attack triple crit proc at 500 dmg per hit. The problem comes when I get hate and third eye is wiped in a second or two, leaving my completely defenseless, 3min super jump isn't enough.

noodles355

08-13-2011, 03:26 PM

The discussion was never about what was better. And it's ok for me to say what I want. U still not have full +2 set noodles. So sad. And is ur ws set still so weak? With all that +1 and all. Point is there good not crap especially nice for ws. And u can still have 26% haste without takin up the glove slot and in that case it would be dumb and a waste. And everyone knows a maxed haste set is best for tp dunno why u think u gotta educate pple on what they already know. Do u ever post any good ideas noodles or just go through forums trolling? On most forums ur arguing with someone. Ur pathetic and don't know it all.
Just stop. Put down the spade and stop digging yourself a hole.
Options for 26% Haste not using gloves:
AF3+2 Head 6%. Relic+1/Timarli Body 2%. Bullwhip 7%. Ace's/Bestia 4%. AF3+2 Feet 5%. AF3 Back 1%. Blitz Ring 1%.

Do you know why that set is absolutely terribad? Let's examine it in detail.
You're not using one of Goading Belt, Ace's Leggings, or AF3+1/+2/Askar/Aurum Body. That means you don't have a 6 hit.
To get that 6Hit, you'd need Rose Strap. Meaning you're not using Pole Strap.
You're using Lancer's Pelerine instead of Atheling Mantle which is better.

The whole point is you wanting to use the +2 Hands. The point of that is for 2 things: The 5/5 set bonus, and the 4% DA. You can't get the 5/5 set bonus because you need to use a Haste body piece and a haste leg piece. You gain 4% DA from the hands but you lose 5% DA from not using Pole Grip and Athelling Mantle. A terrible option all togeather

You could use Zeleus Tiara over AF3+2 head. However with Bullwhip and AF3+2 feet you still need 6% more haste. Meaning haste +4 legs, AF3 back and blitz ring.
What you've basically done here is go:
AF3+2 head > Zeleus
Ace's hands > AF3+2
Atheling Mantle > AF3
Whatever ring > Blitz. Let's say Pyrosoul Ring.
Everything else stays the same. Now, let's compare those sets:
You still have 3/5 set bonus. You still have 26% haste. You have a 6hit.
You gain 1% DA and 15 Accuracy. You lose 1-2 fStr and 51 Attack. Accuracy is almost always capped on anything you'd bring Drg too, so you're looking at 1% DA vs 1-2 fStr and 51 Attack. Assuming 7% DA from other sources and how about a 30%TP/20% Jump/50% WS damage split as that heavilly favours the DA over the attack. 1% DA will give 0.9% increase to you're total DoT
Say you have 650 Attack, against an enemy 7 levels above you with 400 Defence. Adding 50 Attack will be a boost of 7.7% to your TP phase, which is 30% of your total DoT, that's a 1.54% increase to your total DoT.

Notice: I didn't take into account the 1-2 fStr you lose.
I used a TP/Jump/WS ratio that favours DA over Attack/Str.
I used a high attack value. With no buffs you're Attack in TP set will be only around 550~ish. This diminishes the affact of +Attack.

So I heavillly favoured the DA and yet it still lost.

In conclusion: You're just wrong.
How does it feel to know that someone who never plays drg, who has worse gear than you is still a better dragoon then you could ever hope to be? You are a shining example of the old phrase "Has all the gear, but has no idea".

Edit: Oh, and I forgot about the newish Haste/DA/TA legs, which you would use in the Ace's hands set alongside blitz ring. At this point the other option is completely beaten into the ground.

Best 6hit TP set for standard lance would probably be AF3+2 head, body and feet, ace's hands, the haste/da/ta legs, bullwhip, atheling, blitz, rajas, brutal and whatever neck and 2nd earring.

Moonbaq

08-14-2011, 02:01 PM

I feel that DRG should have a couple perks

1) possibly giving the dragon more than just a breath ws.

2) i think it would be nice if we could tell our pets to attack & return, giving us more options to attack multiple mobs

3) I think Dragons should be able to be called when using it as a sub job

4) though it would probably happen everytime you use a ws make dragon breath attacks skill-chainable

5) Lastly let you drain HP as you hit a mob with a jump attack...

just some thoughts in mind

Anucris

08-15-2011, 12:24 PM

Wow u wasted a lot of time on that and I'm def not reading that much lol

Anucris

08-15-2011, 12:26 PM

noodles355

08-15-2011, 05:09 PM

Wow u wasted a lot of time on that and I'm def not reading that much lol
I'll shorten it down for your simple brain: You lost the argument.
AF3+2 for TP are fail. Every build with AF3+2 hands and 26% haste is shit compared to a 26% Ace's Hands set.

You know, a bigger person would have stepped up and said "Wow, guess you were right. Oh well, now I know" or something similar when someone provided detailed and thought-out infomation and proof to try and show you a better way of playing. There's infomation there which would help you make decisions to become a better drg, yet you want to ignore them? If your ego is so large that you can't admit you were wrong and take the infomation in order to make yourself a better player then that's just too bad.

It amazes me how hard some people find it to actually admit they are wrong.

Anucris

08-16-2011, 01:52 AM

I'm not wrong. This started because u were rude then I bragged about having full +2 and knew u didn't from a diff post and u got upset. I tp in af3 head, body, feet, dusk+1 gloves, aces pants and goading. I'm waiting on the fuzhelm body from voidwatch boss for 26%. So I deal with 24 for now unless I just want to use more. But yeah ur just beating a dead hoarse by saying haste is good. No sh*t sherlock. I just been jerking ur chain cause u must have something shoved way up ur rear and act like a butthole. Ur info is usually good tho. Common sense but good. Troll. Some drg with full +2 just like playing around with it sometimes like while farming dark rings. Not everything is life and death

noodles355

08-16-2011, 01:56 PM

I took issue with you stating 5/5 af+2 is fine as if it was. I could give a shit about what you do playing about. The problem is when you spout bullshit like that on a forum where other people come to read and get advice. If you said "i play about in it" I couldn't have cared less, but just sating it's good or fine is a irresponsible thing to do if you know better.

Also why do you use Goading? Are you using other STP options to make a 5 hit? If not then use Bullwhip. It's stupid easy to get.

Anucris

08-16-2011, 10:08 PM

I got a bullwhip. My LS got me one I usually use it on LS runs for serious time but I'm usually stuck rdm. Otherwise I want that body to use with goading so as to at least get away from those negatives. And yeah I got tp+12 lance which u can build 5 hit with. Is really good even though it lacks in some areas

Anucris

08-16-2011, 10:10 PM

Of course my empyrean isn't done or I'd be using it. Will have it soon tho. Sorry bout the 5/5 af3 thing thought it was understood u would just be messing around in it.

Ophannus

08-17-2011, 02:13 AM

Some kind of self buff or debuff on enemy that increases damage that isn't Angon would be nice. For example Konzen-ittai is such a powerful JA for SAM and it's a 3 min cool down. If SAM can Konzen-ittai+Fudo for 3k dmg with 3k light then Fudo again for 3kdmg with 4k light, then by comparison Soul/Spirit Jump need to be like 1 min recasts to make the damage comparable. Or give DRG some kind of Attack+ boost JA like Berserk. Even Tier2 Wyvern breaths that do 2-3x the amount of damage they do now. Seriously SAM is bannanas with Konzen-ittai, that move should have been a 10min recast, 3 minutes is insane for a self SC considering SAM can already self SC with Sekka and/or meditate.

For DRG how about a JA that once activated allows the next multi hit weapon skill to get full TP back from additional hits after the first. This harkens back to pre Penta nerf DRG when Penta gave 16%TP on the first hit and 16% for each hit afterward which was then nerfed to full TP for first hit and 1 tp for hits after. Give it a 3min recast so DRG can Drakesbane and get 80% TP back from it then we can WS shortly again after. Another option is to give DRG multiple "Save TP" traits. This trait exists but only with certain Atmas, and it gives +10 TP back on any WS you use and procs 100% of the time and differs from Conserve TP which randomly gives back a random amount of TP.

noodles355

08-17-2011, 07:49 PM

Of course my empyrean isn't done or I'd be using it. Will have it soon tho. Sorry bout the 5/5 af3 thing thought it was understood u would just be messing around in it.
I'm just really anal about two things: firstly, that more difficult to obtain, yet worse options are ok over easy alternatives for anything other than messing about (The mis-understanding we have). And secondly, people who post interpretations and guesses as facts. Both simply because when you look at it as a newbie coming to look around and get infomation, the infomation they get will be bad and/or misleading.

Anucris

08-17-2011, 11:48 PM

Just not that many newbies these days. The ones who r usually have played before and r just starting back. But yeah I get what u mean

Anucris

08-17-2011, 11:56 PM

Yeah Ophannus that would be cool. Even a trait that gives 10 tp back per xtra hit. Say first gives regular tp then 3-4 more hits ur setting at 46-56 tp would be cool. And maybe it would work as a multiplier on ws like CT where u get 3x the tp back cause it's 3-fold. So like 48 tp. And then that random conserve tp trait we got could just be icing on the cake when it kicks in popping us up to 60-90 tp not like it triggers that often(I don't know the %). This would lvl drg back out with sam. But since drg are meant to hit harder but not quite as often than sam a DMg boost might seem more likely. Finally

Ophannus

09-08-2011, 01:58 PM

For the next patch I'd like some kind of sustained effect JA for DRG as the only sustained effect JA we have is Ancient Circle. WAR can pop Berserk,Blood Rage,Retaliation,Aggressor,Restraint before a fight to buff themselves up, DRG has nothing to use on itself to buff up before a fight. Something like Berserk for DRG that lower Wyvern Breath accuracy or would be like Sabre Dance but give +Att or Haste at the cost of locking breaths or something would be totally great for HNM fights.

Would personally love some kind of JA like Berserk though since DRG mainly subs SAM for survivability and 5hit while SAM subs WAR and gets DA/Berserk and WAR main subs SAM and benefits from both job's abilities. DRK subs SAM too but they have +Att boosting JA/traits. In comparison DRG's Attack rating is average because we dont have Attack Bonus VI like DRK and we don't have Berserk like SAM/WARs and WAR/SAMs or MNK/WARs.

You could argue "Well then if you want Berserk, then sub /WAR!" but the thing is MNK, and SAM all use Warrior subjob because their MAIN job has abilities to mitigate damage via Counter/Guard/Seigan etc... DRK subs SAM but they have +Attack traits and +Attack JA's and Dread Spikes on their main job. DRG lacks those abilities so we rely heavily on Seigan from /SAM. From this, we lack any attack boosting abilities like Berserk/Warcry/Last Resort/ that MNK,DRK,SAM get from using /WAR or their main job.

Dragon Rage
Duration 3 minutes
Recast 5 minutes
Enhances attack but renders Healing Breaths unusable.
(Attack +20%)

Dragon Skin
Duration 3 minutes
Recast 5 minutes
Reduces physical damage taken and increases enmity but renders Elemental Breaths unusable. (Physical damage reduction gradually decreases with each hit taken. )

The above abilities would allow for DRG to sub /SAM and benefit from a way to increase our attack or defense abilities just like how WAR/SAM SAM/WAR DRK/SAM MNK/WAR can.

noodles355

09-08-2011, 07:18 PM

Would personally love some kind of JA like Berserk though since DRG mainly subs SAM for survivabilityI sub /Sam for Hasso.

Ophannus

09-09-2011, 02:19 PM

Other melee that sub SAM get Hasso too but also have Berserk/Souleater/Last Resort/Blood Rage/Retaliation to further enhance their attack and have other non merit abilities they can pop before a WS to enhance the damage. Would be nice to get a single sustained effect buff to use during our TP phase to enhance Attack or +JA Haste. Why should only SAM get a JA haste, their specialty is WS/SCing. Give DRG a 1 min duration 3 min recast +15% Haste boost or something. Or to be in more line with the job, give buff breaths to our wyvern that enhance our attack/accuracy or haste to add a further incentive to keep our wyverns alive. Maybe a "Wyvern's Favor" type ability, increases the DRG's attack/accuracy/attacks speed but at the cost of weaker breaths, or another one that lowers Jump recasts but slows wyvern delay/attack.

Sotek

09-09-2011, 07:36 PM

Dragoon already has a (now infinite duration) job ability which adds 1~140+ damage per swing, 1~400+ damage per weapon skill, 1~400+ damage every minute, Cure V every minute, an extra source of TP and makes Jumps 100% critical hit.
It's called Call Wyvern, look it up some time.

Actually Jumps as well can count towards reasons why Dragons shouldn't get a stance ability that everyone seems to want. Sure they're not actual stances, but all other stances like Hasso and Berserk do is increase your damage or haste for a time, Jumps deal damage and are brilliant sources of TP (haste being there to increase your melee speed adn thus TP gain) - and not exactly a low amount these days - which is basically what stances boil down to. Jumps give you 20~60TP these days depending on Double/Triple attack and I very regularly see 800~1,2k damage ones even outside Abyssea, all that happens instantly where as the haste and str from Hasso is going to take hours to ever match that kind of damage and TP boost, hours in which Dragoon could have done well over 30 more and that's just only counting one Jump when you have access to two. Even if you take low end numbers like ~20TP and ~400 damage, Spirit/Soul Jump far out do any stance ability in the game. Berserk is typically only used for weapon skills, and I'm fairly certain Elemental Breath can make up for that when they Wyvern isn't dying, with Elemental Breath being something you can spam every minute and every weapon skill I think it will far exceed Berserk in terms of damage after this update.
Dragoon gets at least three job abilities that increase its potential greatly while taking nothing away from it, aside from Super Jump - which is defensive - no damaging Jump has a draw back like -defense on Berserk and Call Wyvern does the absolute opposite of taking something away from the job and adds a curative element to it. Dragoon already has by far the most unique and best stance ability in the game; assuming this update makes Wyvern survivability a reality, Dragoon is pretty much complete short of Super-Mega-Ultra Jump at Lv.99.

Only thing I can possibly ask for at this point is Lancet, and not the crappy classic HP/MP drain move that has absolutely no place in FFXI (unless they add a new merit system where you need a job leveled to unlock an ability, but the ability is not limited to that job). A pet command that deals damage and drains HP and TP to the Wyvern. HP and TP are great for stronger Elemental Breath, TP is great for Healing Breath and the TP is also potentially useful for TP gain via Spirit Link. It would be a relatively small buff that would be very useful.

Ophannus

09-10-2011, 02:35 AM

Sotek

09-10-2011, 03:24 AM

At the very least I want some kind of defense bonus for DRG main. Something like Fan Dance or Sentinel because besides a 3min super jump DRG has nothing for defense as a main, every other melee has *something* defensive or damage mitigating. Even Retaliation counts as the counter gives TP which ends the battle sooner and thus reduces damage taken. Case and point watch how a Ukon WAR with Retaliation acts as Damage Mitigation against a Hundred Fists Chloris.

No they don't. Dark Knight, Ranger and Thief have nothing natively to my knowledge. If Hide/Camouflage count, so does Super Jump. If Dread Spikes/Drains count, so does Healing Breath. Besides that, Dragoon isn't meant to be a tank, so I see no reason why it should have the ability to act as such. Rather than damage mitigation we have hate mitigation so the only possible way you should die on Dragoon is through AoE moves, and with a sturdy Wyvern and regular Healing Breaths that's impossible even if your mages are ignoring you.

Ophannus

09-10-2011, 02:59 PM

No they don't. Dark Knight, Ranger and Thief have nothing natively to my knowledge. If Hide/Camouflage count, so does Super Jump. If Dread Spikes/Drains count, so does Healing Breath. Besides that, Dragoon isn't meant to be a tank, so I see no reason why it should have the ability to act as such. Rather than damage mitigation we have hate mitigation so the only possible way you should die on Dragoon is through AoE moves, and with a sturdy Wyvern and regular Healing Breaths that's impossible even if your mages are ignoring you.

Ranger isn't a melee, it's a ranger. Being out of range from AoE/hits. Dread Spikes and Healing Breath are not the same, one mitigates damage, the other restores HP. Dread Spikes are passive like Stoneskin/Phalanx/Sentinel, Healing Breath is not. Thief has A+ evasion and +70 evasion from bonuses, THF can tank easily.

Just because DRG isn't a tank doesn't mean we shouldn't get something to help us not die so easily besides a 3 min hate shed. Last I checked the only 2 tanks in this game are technically NIN and PLD yet SAM and DRK have been able to tank almost every mob in the game with Third Eye/Dread Spikes/Shadows. MNK isn't a tank yet they have Counter/Perfect Counter/Dodge/High Evasion/High HP and Guard. SAM isn't a tank but they can counter and dodge with third eye and have high evasion. WAR has Defender and Retaliation. DRK has Dread Spikes and the difference between /WAR and /SAM is smaller for DRK than it is for DRG since DRK has high att already and plenty of JA/Spells to boost their damage.

Ophannus

09-10-2011, 03:03 PM

Anucris

09-10-2011, 04:46 PM

i hate when pple exaggerate jobs capabilities or list Top notch ideal stats when not every fight is an EP BIRD mob with +50%DA and 1000 HB with 0 delay from casting the spell till the cure hits the drg. (this not directed at anyone i just see it all the time.)

Drg could use a dmg mitigation for when wyv get paralyzed/slept/petrified/blah blah... and could use a lil more soloability on tougher mobs.

drg could use an attack buff stance. so when ur doing your 3 WS's in a row they hit that much harder. ws/jumps/ws/SL/ws. or meditate if u go /sam but im /rdm most of the time

drg could use another jump instead. cause well... drg players love jumps and the satisfaction NOW effect that Sotek was talking about... lol 4-5 ws in a row yes please (with da/ta luck)

i like the idea of an ability that does def buff to drg and offensive buff to wyv. (vice versa woulda been nice, but wyv are not gonna need def buff now :). )
thank you SE for that

a lot does rest on the new jumps. and they put us back in the game. not ahead.

and yes our little sidekick is very handy and overlooked

noodles355

09-10-2011, 09:00 PM

Read the old dev notes. Hasso and Seigan were as much as, if not more, of an update to the /Sam sub for other jobs as it was to Sam main.

Yes, a sustained effect ability would be more, however I think drg's design is that of instant use, instant dmg, instant TP gaining abilities. Not that I agree with the concept. I would love to see DRG abilities from previous FFs, and sustained abilities as well. After all, my love for drgaoon stemmed from Freya in FF9 who had heaps of cool and unusual abilities.

Ophannus

09-11-2011, 03:17 AM

noodles355

09-11-2011, 03:13 PM

noodles355

09-11-2011, 03:14 PM

DRG hardly had abilities in old games. Lancet/Lancer/Dragon Sword exist in FFXI as "Spirit Surge" just like how Darkness/Dark Wave exist in FFXI as "Souleater". The only other abilities from past Dragoons would be FFT/FFTA/FF9 stuff .Almost every job had hardly any abilities in earlier games, it wasn't just Dragoon. Excluding magic of course.

Ophannus

09-13-2011, 12:09 AM

Spirit Link granting 50% of the Wyvern's TP to the Wyvern is very underappreciated but has awesome potential it's just that it's hard to use. We generally use Spirit Link to heal our wyern and if we're using weapon skills every 20-30 seconds or keeping ourseves alive with Restoring or Healing Breath, the Wyvern's TP is constantly being depleted with each breath used. If there was some kind of Pet Command that allowed Wyverns to stop using TP on breaths, it would be wonderful. Afterall it seems like the 20-80% TP the wyvern spends on Elemental Breaths/Healing Breaths hardly make any noticable difference on Elemental Breath accuracy or Healing Breath potency anyway. This Wyvern TP would be better spent being transferred to the DRG as a free TP battery with Spirit Link if it were more reliably present.

noodles355

09-13-2011, 01:14 AM

Spirit Link is hard to use for TP gain for the simple reason that Wyvern's never get more than 1-2 attack rounds in before you WS again. It's use is basically limited to popping yourself over TP if though some reason (mob hitting you) you end up at 96-99%TP.

Wyverns dont spend 20-80% TP on breaths. They spend 8-16% TP. As I said they never get more than 2 attack rounds in befor you're ready to WS again unless you're holding TP.

Martel

09-13-2011, 03:32 AM

The point in this case, isn't how much tp the wyvern gets before we ws again, but how much would he have every 3 mins when we spirit link. IF, of course, they weren't blowing all their tp every breath.

Which I think was the point of Ophannus' post. If we had a JA/pet command that would prevent wyvern from using their TP when they use breath attacks, how much TP would we get per spirit link? I'd think that after 3 mins of melee'ing, a wyvern would almost certainly have 300 TP. Giving us an instant additional WS.

Not quite as useful as meditate, as it requires the wyvern to have been melee'ing for some time. But still, it'd actually make the TP transfer aspect of spirit link viable as a DD boost.

Wyvern TP gain. IIRC(and I'm not all that sure I do, so correct me if you know better), wyvern's have basic polearm attack delay. Meaning 396 delay. With /sam's STP that equates to 11.7 tp/hit every 6.6 seconds(assuming you didn't spirit link haste/marches over before) So in 3 mins a wyvern would get in 27 hits. 11.7*27=315.9 TP. Giving us an extra 150 TP every 3 mins, if the wyvern has been melee'ing that whole time.

Well, I'm all for a JA to prevent wyvern from expending TP on breaths. The potency boost on HB is small, and I doubt the TP to M.acc on ele breaths is very much.

Ophannus

09-13-2011, 03:54 AM

Wyverns dont spend 20-80% TP on breaths. They spend 8-16% TP. As I said they never get more than 2 attack rounds in befor you're ready to WS again unless you're holding TP.

You are severely spoiled by Abyssea if you think we get 100% TP in the time the Wyvern has hit twice on a consistent basis.

noodles355

09-13-2011, 09:17 AM

You are severely spoiled by Abyssea if you think we get 100% TP in the time the Wyvern has hit twice on a consistent basis.I have Haste and Hasso. I wouldn't called that spoiled. Go put an /echo <pettp> macro line in your WS macro.

Ophannus

09-13-2011, 01:37 PM

Haste and Hasso still equal a 5-6s gap between swings. I doubt you get 5 hits before your wyvern has gotten 2 unless you're getting real lucky with OAT procs.

noodles355

09-13-2011, 08:29 PM

You're getting hit by the mob most of the time. You have jumps. You have meditate. You have conserve TP. One of the above will happen most of the time. Coupled with the fact you should have about 50% haste. Coupled with the fact that it takes the wyvern so long to use it's breath that you've already gotten off a swing before it's actually fired it from the last WS.

The times when the abiliity is useful is when you're close to 100%TP so it'll save you an extra swing. The only way you should be in a situation where you've ended with 95~99TP is if you're being hit by the mob, meaning the first clause from above is already true.

Go put an /echo <pettp> line in your WS macro. Tha majority of the time the wyvern wont have over 20~TP. the times when you need to use spirit link for that extra boost over 100%TP, it will have even less than normal because you will have gotten TP faster than normal as well (through being hit.)

Ophannus

09-14-2011, 05:34 AM

You're getting hit by the mob most of the time. You have jumps. You have meditate. You have conserve TP.

If you are truly WSing every 15 seconds as you say, all of the above abilities will be expended pretty darn fast. Also if you're fighting anything of any kind of worth like Voidwatch, you will die very, very fast expending your TP like that, which is why I think DRG could use an ability or two like fan dance to make us a bit more durable compared to MNK/SAM/WAR/DRKs in addition to what we get from /SAM (the same that WAR and DRK get from /SAM but also have their own abilities too to reduce damage over time)

Anucris

09-14-2011, 09:59 AM

spirit link for TP. easy concept

outside abyssea. not very useful. 5-20 tp

in abyssea. considering u use vv, rr, apoc, (wyv has triple att, and regain) + u are waiting on proc a lot, u run in and ws, jumps, ws, SL for at least 100% tp and ws.
so in abyssea its a nice well to be tapped. even if u just stand around by the time the recast is up you'll get plenty of tp

something to make it a little better out of abyssea would be very welcome.. ur WASTING wyvern tp by letting it augment a breath a few points. it should never be expended during breath's so that it is more useful as tp bump few points on breath < another drg WS (almost wish this werent so true, little boosts from things in this game are often SSOOOOO subtle and small, like boosting breath attacks in this way, day/weather bonuses to en-spells (1-3 xtra dmg usually depending if u get one or both boosts) things like that are irritating

noodles355

09-14-2011, 11:51 AM

In abyssea you use Sanguine Scythe, Razed Ruins and Apocalypse.

If you are truly WSing every 15 seconds as you say, all of the above abilities will be expended pretty darn fast.If you have some sort of selective reading disability then I apologise. Let me re-state it for you:
Spirit link as a TP tool is for pushing you up over 100%TP when you've ended up close to 90% earlier.

If you're not taking damage, the only thing that will make it the case that you're ending up at 90~95% TP is Conserve TP. Conserve TP has a 25% proc rate iirc. Out of those procs sometimes it will give you enough extra TP to knock off a hit to 100%, sometimes it wont. Thus the times it wont are the minority. The majority of the time you will not have a use for spirit link.

The majority of the times you will have a use for spirit link is when you are being punched in the face and gaining extra TP due to damage taken. In these cases you will TP to 100% significantly quicker than normal. In these cases the wyvern wont have TPd as quickly.

I'll make it really nice and clear:
The times when you need spirit link to push you over 100%TP are:
When you are face-tanking for extra TP
When conserve TP procs
When you use Spirit or Soul Jump, and didn't plan your gear well enough to account for lost STP on the Jumps.

In all of these cases you will be gaining TP much quicker than normal and the wyvern will not.

If you have expended all your abilities, aren't getting punched in the face and didn't have a conserve TP proc and actually have to sit there and swing fully to 100% TP then yes, the wyvern will have more TP than I stated, however in this instance it is irrelevant as you wont need the extra TP to push you over 100%. The wyvern will never get enough TP (36-40% if you're using 5 hit or 30-34% if 6 hit) to knock a complete hit off your xhit build by the time you are one hit remaining to 100% TP.

I hope that clears it up for you.

Also if you're fighting anything of any kind of worth like Voidwatch, you will die very, very fast expending your TP like thatSuper Jump is on a 3 minute timer.

OMEGA_HACK

09-14-2011, 05:43 PM

Want a defensive ability/trait? How about if we die with the Wyvern still alive we get auto Full-Raise (no weakness either) at the cost of killing the Wyvern and Call Wyvern get +10 min on the timer (not exceeding the 20min recast cap), call it Dragonheart (oh hi there, that was something that was native to Dragons in a very familiar FF title :D)

Also I agree, using Spirit Link as a form of drastic TP gain is a little over rated...especially when DRK have something called Absorb-TP which I believe can be used in quicker intervals than SL and can usually gain the DRK more than what SL would gain for a DRG. (Just making this a point to consider when speaking of functionality vs. practicality vs. potency).

Honestly, I feel Stances for the Dragoon is long over due, the job really needs something to pull us away from the "DRG is defined primarily by what subjob it has equipped" I would really love people to consider /drg as well, stances could do that. But stay away from the attack increase, give us something different.

Offensive stance could be something like a small haste boost (on par with Hasso) when you have a pet out accompanied with an increase in Crit Hit damage+15% and Crit Hit rate+5% (this part is not dependent on whether or not a pet is out)

Defensive stance could be increases rate of parries (grants Tactical Parry) for 2-handed users as well as upon successful parry has a chance to stun the target. Something like that would be neat and DIFFERENT. Make them subjob-able and now we might see pup/drg, smn/drg (melee smn lol), bst/drg or even see new ways for sam to tank with sam/drg. Either way it becomes a job that COULD be used as a subjob also it would add to the main job. Ok, I'm done just thought I would stop in and put in my 2 cent on the subject.

Ophannus

09-15-2011, 01:34 AM

/SAM was supposed to be the /NIN for 2h users except instead of giving a comparable trait or Utsusemi-like spells to buff to 2h users like Dual Wield they gave us Seigan/Hasso. This was all well and good, but now 1h users like DNC BLU and THF have their own Dual Wield and don't NEED to sub NIN for protection or to equip 2 weapons anymore. I wouldn't mind JA's that enhance 2h weapons for DRG so we don't rely 100% on only /SAM's abilities. Like I keeeeeep saying WAR/SAM and SAM/WAR get the cream of the cream in terms of JA/traits. DRK and DRG would both love to have Berserk and DA but we sacrifice those for Med/Hasso/Sekka/Store TP while SAM and WAR sub eachother and get everything a 2h user could ask for. DRK vs DRG both benefit highly from SAM but DRK benefits SLIGHTLY less from /WAR vs a DRG subbing /WAR because they already have Attack Bonuses up the wazoo and tons of ATT/DMG boosting JA/Spells. DRG lacks any stances outside of subjobs and /DRG is pointless. If WAR/SAM can get seigan/third eye/retaliaion/zerk/hasso/DA etc why can't DRG get its own JA stance +Haste or +Attack boost so we have something in addition to what /SAM provides? WAR and SAM abilities are so perfectly synergistic that those two jobs and their subs are amazing together than DRG's abilities seem weaker in comparison. SAM can self skillchain like crazy and do extremely high damage in a short amount of time Chainbound>Fudo does 4k with 4.5k Skillchain damage and if they used sekkanoki they can double light, then meditate and WS a few more times while zanshin+DAing and +25% WS dmg from Overwhelm etc. DRG just needs a offensive stance and a defensive stance. Everyone's getting one, even WHM got Afflatuses, NIN got stances too with Yonin/Innin.

noodles355

09-15-2011, 02:10 AM

Ugh.
Drk benefits significantly less from /war than drg due to a 3 minute Last Resort.
Drk benefits significantly more from /sam than a drg due to a 3 minute Las Resort with desperate blow merits.

Yet another posted on the forums, who being proven wrong, wont step up and say "whoops, guess you were right and I was wrong" but instead ignores it and moves onto the next topic. Cool.

Also bitches need to stop saying Fudo+Konzen Ittai does like 8k dmg. Fudo does not average 4k per WS. You get a lucky Triple attack proc with maxed pdif with zerk up and overwealm triggered in abyssea then sure that shit can happen but it aint the fuckign norm and you need to stop thinking it is. As my bro marshal said, you need to step "back to reality" (we real close).

Ophannus

09-15-2011, 08:59 AM

Auto-crit for Spirit/Soul Jumps during 2hr would be welcomed change, in addiiton I'd like Jump/High Jump to uncouple their recasts with Spirit/Soul Jumps during that time so we can use all 4.

Drk benefits significantly less from /war than drg due to a 3 minute Last Resort.

I agreed with this as noted by:

DRK vs DRG both benefit highly from SAM but DRK benefits SLIGHTLY less from /WAR vs a DRG subbing /WAR because they already have Attack Bonuses up the wazoo and tons of ATT/DMG boosting JA/Spells.

DRK has Souleater, higher attack and STR than DRG, Last Resort and Endark all which makes Berserk less of a drastic change in pDIF compared to DRG which lacks any pDIF boosting abilities besides Angon, which benefits everyone and is only useful on one mob every 3 minutes and fits under a debuff and not a buff. For this reason WAR and DRK benefit more from /SAM and DRK benefits less from /WAR and more from /SAM. Every 2h benefits more from /SAM than DRG does but it's really the only option for DRG. If we had a native offensive and defensive stance or self buff DRG would be more synergistic with /SAM than it is now.

tldr: DRG has to choose between frequent but weaker WSing and higher haste vs more DA and stronger WS whereas other 2h jobs get the best of both with their MAINJOB/SAM because whatever offensive/defensive ability that /SAM lacks, their main job makes up for i.e Berserk,Warcry,Blood Rage,Retaliation,Aggressor,Last Resort,Souleater,Endark,Dread Spikes,Attack Bonus VI,Absorb-STR,Absorb-TP,Critical Attack Bonus,Stun,Weapon Bash,Drain,DrainII.

Ophannus

09-15-2011, 09:18 AM

I love how SE made Lancer in FF14. That's my idea of a 'complete' class. It has use and utility. It has the equivalent of Desperate Blows in JA form that also gives Drain Daze on all of your attacks. It has a Trick Attack ability, it has the equivalent of Zanshin/Store TP for FF14 as well as a Third Eye- like ability called Diversion.

Some examples of abilities they could rename and implement in FFXI from FFXIV's Lancer job.

Speed Surge: Wield your weapon deftly, increasing auto-attack speed. Hitting the target inflicts an enfeebling status which grants attacking party members the ability to absorb HP.(Implement this without the drain samba effect though)

Diversion Create a diversion capable of absorbing close-range attacks. (implement this by letting the Wyvern "Cover" us from spells/TP moves/attacks could be good in conjunction with Steady Wing.)

Ferocity Trigger an adrenaline rush, increasing the power of your next attack. (This was pretty good in FF14, in FFXI it could be like a +15% critical hit damage boost for 30 seconds making it good for WS or Jumps)

noodles355

09-15-2011, 11:32 AM

Drk benefits significantly less from /war than drg due to a 3 minute Last Resort.
I agreed with this as noted by:

DRK vs DRG both benefit highly from SAM but DRK benefits SLIGHTLY less from /WAR vs a DRG subbing /WAR because they already have Attack Bonuses up the wazoo and tons of ATT/DMG boosting JA/Spells.
I retract my statement about Drk benefitting significantly more from /Sam than Drg as I'd forgotten that last resort gives 25% haste and that's the JA cap so wont stick with Hasso. But yes, as you later went on to mention in your argument it is a pretty significant difference due to endark, last resort, attack bonus traits, etc.

Ophannus

09-15-2011, 12:38 PM

It would seem when SE doesn't want to add a new tier of a spell they just release gear that enhances the spell. For example we haven't gotten Stoneskin II but there's at least 4 or 5 pieces that Enhance Stoneskin's potency/cast speed, one piece for Aquaveil and several for bar spells. I'm assuming we won't be getting Healing Breath IV and the new belt coming out that Enhances Wyvern Breath is testimant to that. Seems like we get Healing Breath IV via upgrading III with equipment and through increasing the Wyvern's HP. This increase is so potent that if they gave us a stronger base Healing Breath, DRG would start getting invites as a healer instead of a DD. (Since WHMs typically save Cure 6 for when the tank is in red/orange, a well geared DRG/Mage with HP Atma and Dragonrider can make an excellent substitute healer dolling out 1.1k HBs with 1.8k DB HB's.)

Ophannus

10-01-2011, 04:11 AM

Soothing Breath could even be something like Curing Waltz, a breath that removes one negative ailment on a target or yourself. Maybe even make Wyrm Armet or Deep Breathing remove multiple ailments(2-3).

Yugl

10-02-2011, 02:21 PM

How about an ability to double the effect of all JTs? That would be a beastly.

Anucris

10-04-2011, 12:35 AM

Well if it was main job only it would be really weak. +10 more ATT and +30 acc (not necessary). Only area it might help is conserve tp. But prolly not

Anucris

10-04-2011, 12:37 AM

Gottaa think bigger or you won't get much. Ive listed lots of abilities and traits before. I'll make a full list later when I'm not on phone

Yugl

10-04-2011, 06:26 AM

All JTs meaning subs included. I really just want a lot more sTP; it's not a genuine idea for improving DRG.

Ophannus

10-04-2011, 08:57 AM

I'd like a trait like that occasionally transfers Wyvern TP to the Dragoon during a hit. Maybe 10% chance that when a Wyvern lands a hit, the DRG will gain TP instead of the Wyvern.

Also more gear that we can equip to enhance the Wyvern when we call it out like Wyrm Mail, that doesn't require us to keep the armor on for the wyvern to gain effect. Maybe AF2+2 set effect can grant the Wyvern Parameter Boost without needing Experience Points, making it useful for areas where Wyverns cant gain EXP or during HNM fights. Equip full AF2+2 then Call Wyvern and the game registers it as if the Wyvern Gained 1000 experience points and will be summoned in it's stronger state boasting higher resistance, HP, etc. The Wyvern paramter boost is nice for exp/merit parties but has no value during real fights when the heightened stats would be welcomed.

Yugl

10-04-2011, 01:39 PM

Could be meh or really good depending on implementation, but I could see wyverns gaining a samba-like effect that grants an assortment of buffs to the DRG, which is similar to spirit surge.

Ophannus

10-04-2011, 02:16 PM

I'd like Smiting Breath to be changed so that the Dragoon can select the breath used ala Quick Draw. This way the Dragoon has complete control over which breath is used for such things as procing in Voidwatch. For example, the other day the pink Mandragora Voidwatch NM in Sarutabaruta was weak to "Water elemental Wyvern breaths"; however being a Mandragora, Wyverns will almost never use Hydro Breath but will instead use Flame or Frost Breath...

Yugl

10-05-2011, 02:09 PM

Technically, you should be able to manipulate that via Ninjutsu/Threnodies.

Ophannus

10-06-2011, 07:22 AM

I don't know if the Breaths are adaptive meaning they change based on current weakness but based on the mob's family/class weakness. For mobs or NMs that change their weakness depending on day or TP moves or dust cloud animations, Wyvern AI doesn't seem to account for such.

Yugl

10-06-2011, 10:44 AM

While testing Skillchain elements, it was found that Wyvern breaths tend to follow the same pattern. Hence, mob's resistance (Those colorful icons your equip menu has) determines Wyvern's choice of attack. Otherwise, the pet should default to flame or frost breath (The two elements skillchains start with).

Ophannus

10-07-2011, 10:39 AM

A step in the right direction for adjustments to Spirit Surge would be

-Making it add Job Ability Haste instead of Magic Haste would be welcomed..
-Allowing Spirit Jump and Soul Jump receive 'Wyvern Presence benefits' i.e Critical Hit guaranteed/Increased TP gain as if the Wyvern was alive despite the ability dismissing your Wyvern.

I know SE is thinking about making old jump relavent again but the bonuses to the new Jumps are too useful. The only way they could make old Jumps useful is if they either consolidated all Jumps into one recast, giving a universal recast timer and charges similar to Quickdraw and readjusted all their effects OR make Jump recast shorter than Spirit Jump recast despite sharing the same timer; similar to Collaborator/Accomplice. If Jump was 30 seconds and Spirit Jump was 90 and Jump had a special bonus like shedding hate of the person behind us, it might be a tad more useful than it is now. But the 'hate being shed from the person behind you' thing is kind of useless since Dragoons are rarely put in the same party as a mage in an alliance so the situaitons in which a DRG would need to shed a WHM or BLM's enmity would be limited to very small party situations. Giving them other effects like Stun/Terror/TP Drain Daze/ etc would be more useful

Bayohne

10-14-2011, 06:56 AM

Wanted to "jump" in here (get it?) and give our dragoons some cool tidbits on what's in store for them.

After we complete our highest priority tasks of adjusting puppetmaster, scholar, and the firepower of warrior, we would like to add on to the adjustments we made to Wyverns in the 9/19 major version update by adjusting dragoons themselves. We'll be sure to let you know all the details once they become finalized!

Also, this may not be implemented at the same time as the dragoon adjustments, but we plan on adding "Healing Breath IV" to Wyverns and increasing the number of status ailments that can be cured by "Remove Breath."

Kalilla

10-14-2011, 07:04 AM

You misspelled scholar ; ;

Bayohne

10-14-2011, 07:36 AM

No I didn't! Sorry, I was lower-casing it and... I don't know what happened. Please forgive me, acholars. (._.)

Ophannus

10-14-2011, 07:49 AM

Yay! I hope you guys have considered some of the things in this thread:

-Spirit Surge adjustments(Letting Spirit and Soul Jump deal critical htis and increased TP as if the wyvern was present) and changing the haste bonus to Job Ability Haste.
-Adjusting Elemental Breath to be based on wyvern max HP to make using elemental breaths easier
-Allowing Restoring Breath to be used on target party members instead of the wyvern AI deciding based on HP. Sometimes we may not want to heal the BLM in our party above 50% if theyre low on purpose to use Sorceror Ring or something.
-Soothing Breath pet command to allow wyvern to use a "Remove Breath"
-A self buff stance that enhances attack or haste or something similar to Hasso. Something askin to Last Resort/Berserk/Hasso that other melee receive that increases their attack or attack speed. DRG relies solely on its subs for these abilities which are usually weaker than the main job's.
-Pet command called Refrain or something that increases Wyvern Attack and Accuracy but locks Elemental breaths. This would also allow the DRG to make better use of Spirit Link's TP transfer, as of now it's hard to use Spirit Link for that purpose since the Wyvern will lose all TP when it uses Elemental Breaths when we WS.

Dragoon is a decent offensice job but other melee jobs just have more to utilize. The sheer number of ways a SAM can self skillchain now is astounding, coupled with Tachi Fudo they can do absurd amounts of damage not to mention Overwhelm is amazingly powerful in of itself adding 20% WS damage for no reason when infront of the target. While Spirit Jump and Soul Jump are amazing and we're greatful for these, DRG need just a little more. Either by uncoupling the shared timers of the jumps, lowering the recast universally, adding a new jump that shares timer with Super Jump that could deal massive damage, or stances like Berserk/Last Resort/Hasso/Souleater, some job ability with a moderate duration that enhances one or more of the following: Attack/Attack Speed/Critical Hit Rate/Critical Hit Damage/Store TP. Or maybe a job ability that gives us an increased "Conserve TP" value since DRG seem to receive that trait before anyone.

A critical attack bonus trait couldn't hurt either, we could make more use out of it than DRK can so I don't see why we don't get it. DRG could use a unique job trait of its own. As discussed in other threads a trait called "Piercing Attack" could be a low %(5-10%) chance to ignore a portion of the target's defense when it activates. It could be the "Double Attack/Kick Attack/Triple Attack/Zanshin" type trait for DRG in that it activates passively during auto attacks and can activate during a WS. It could just be a "Ignores 50% of the mobs defense" when activates or something, and may proc on WS or Jumps. Or can make it instead a JA stance that we talked about where for 2-3minutes all our attacks will ignore 20-30% of the target's defense. This fits more of the style of DRG than something that raises attack actually. WAR's style is increase attack through berserk. DRG"s could be to ignore defense through this JA.

Thala

10-14-2011, 08:44 AM

Wanted to "jump" in here (get it?)

I don't get it...

Ophannus

10-14-2011, 11:17 AM

Healing Breath 4 might be a bit strong. Currently with every piece of Healing Breath potency gear available to DRG, my healing breath does 601. That's 601 HP every 60 seconds at the cost of nothing except having my Wyvern alive. That's in essence a hateless/non interruptable and free Cure V. With Deep Breathing fully meritted, I can cure well over 1k HP every 5minutes. I dare say that if Healing Breath IV is significantly stronger, we may be entrenching on other healing job's territory as a DRG/RDM right now in Abyssea with HP atmas can dish out 900-1k healing breaths without Deep Breathing on players in range under 50% HP(this is more...way more than poor RDM or SCH can heal). If Healing Breath IV is going to heal 800+ with the gear I have now plus any new gear that enhances Healing Breath more, plus Wyvern HP bonus from level ups, it might be a wee bit overpowered, especially for solo. Compared to DNC that spends 80%+TP to heal themselves for 800 or WHMs that spend 150+MP. Perhaps instead of adding Healing Breath IV, reduce the recast of Restoring Breath to maybe 45 or 30 seconds?

Wyattearp

10-14-2011, 11:46 AM

It would be nice if there was a way to allow drg to be able to select our wyverns breath when using smiting breath, similar to blood pacts for smn's, but its dumb in voidwatch to know what breath is a proc and not be able to trigger it.

Lancil

10-14-2011, 11:51 AM

I would love to have a "Soothing breath" command for my wyvern. If we get healing and smiting then why not.
I'd love to get healing breath IV but can't help to think it will be broken. Perhaps we could also get a piece of gear that "augments call wyvern" (Relic+2 I'm looking at you) which calls your wyvern with the full exp bonus.

Yugl

10-14-2011, 03:56 PM

I don't get it...

I think he means commit suicide? OMG BAYOHNE IS GOING COMMIT SUICIDE!

Healing Breath 4 might be a bit strong. Currently with every piece of Healing Breath potency gear available to DRG, my healing breath does 601. That's 601 HP every 60 seconds at the cost of nothing except having my Wyvern alive. That's in essence a hateless/non interruptable and free Cure V. With Deep Breathing fully meritted, I can cure well over 1k HP every 5minutes. I dare say that if Healing Breath IV is significantly stronger, we may be entrenching on other healing job's territory as a DRG/RDM right now in Abyssea with HP atmas can dish out 900-1k healing breaths without Deep Breathing on players in range under 50% HP(this is more...way more than poor RDM or SCH can heal). If Healing Breath IV is going to heal 800+ with the gear I have now plus any new gear that enhances Healing Breath more, plus Wyvern HP bonus from level ups, it might be a wee bit overpowered, especially for solo. Compared to DNC that spends 80%+TP to heal themselves for 800 or WHMs that spend 150+MP. Perhaps instead of adding Healing Breath IV, reduce the recast of Restoring Breath to maybe 45 or 30 seconds?

They suffer additional costs at the benefit of faster cast time, independence from an non-curable pet, the ability to heal from max distance, the ability to choose the target, and not require a gimp sub to repeat cures in less than the recast time of restoring breath.

@SE: You should make DRG a mix of DD and support with the primary goal of overall, rather than individual, damage increase. Abilities such as angon are the sole reason we remain relevant in most events and given the difficulty of competing with WAR, MNKs, and SAM, this seems like the optimal solution. However, I would prefer such abilities to come in the form of buffs because unless we're fighting a single mob with tons of HP, the benefit of angon diminishes from 50% of the battle to 10% or less on average.

Ophannus

10-15-2011, 09:34 AM

I just hope they've decided against adding hate-shed properties to Jump/High Jump for the player behind the Dragoon. I can say with 100% confidence that I have not once ever used Spirit Surge+Super Jump to ever shed hate of someone in the party, nor have I ever heard of any DRGs doing this. It's too impractical for two reasons:

1) They share timers with other jobs that are INFINITELY more useful. Even if a WHM in my party got hate, it would benefit everyone more for my to Spirit or Soul Jump to get the extra TP needed to WS the hate off the mage rather than to shed their hate. Using the Spirit or Soul Jump for extra TP makes the mob die faster.

2) Most of the time the mages are around 22 yalms away from the party,nowhere near the Dragoon, thus the hate shedding element on it would be hard to use unless the hate shed was for the player behind the DRG up to 25' away or something. Otherwise the WHM would have to coordinate to run behind the DRG relative to the mob when they get hate and wait for the Jump.

3) 90% of the time the mage that gets the hate is in another party, as mages usually are in the tank party or their own party with a COR or BRD for refresh/rolls.

4) No DRG will store his shared Jump timer and contribute less damge in the off chance a mage goes durrrr let me spam curaga 4 back to back.. The DRG's main priority is to deal damage so chance are they will be using Spirit/Soul Jump as soon as the timers are up meaning Jump and High Jump would never be used.

If the Devs are DEAD SET on making Jump and High Jump relevant at 80+ here's what they need to do:
Either of the following would be plausible solutions:
1) Separate timers. Really this isn't very overpowering considering how fast MNK and NIN attack and how much TP WARs get from Retaliation and Double Attack. Jumps dont even do that much damage outside of Abyssea. Spirit and Soul Jump do 350-450ish damage. Jump/High Jump do 150-300ish on Voidwatch mobs, really this isn't that big of a deal.

2) Combine ALL Jumps and give them a universal shared timer with a Charge system like Quickdraw/Ready. Give it a 30-60 second recast and hold 3 charges and update the abilities of each type of Jump making them all useful and unique for different situations. Like make Soul Jump give more TP, but Spirit Jump does more damage, Jump can stun and High Jump sheds your own hate while doing some damage. Something along those lines and having the Wyvern out makes them all crit or something.

AoiX

10-15-2011, 09:09 PM

I already posted this on the DRG Manifesto. But since we are going for new ideas on this thread might aswell post is here.

Here some ideas I got after reading the DRG Manifesto thread:

Jumps:

All jumps have at the moment one thing in common: They all attack from above. How about adding jumps that don't attack from above, like a jump that goes over the enemy and pierces it from behind? This way Jumps that go behind the target can have other kind of effects or even reset hate on mobs or confuse enemies for a few seconds.

Wyverns

Wyverns have an advantage of mastering breath attacks. How about using this to their advantage and after a breath attack granting them the effect of En-Breath for a limited time. This could also be linked with Deep Breathing where the Wyvern has a powerful breath attack and it's effect ends with the en-breath effect.

Polearms

Dragoons are not just masters of Jumps and Wyverns, they also excel in Polearm mastery. Taking this into account how about adding different job abilities that take advantage of what a polearm can do. Example: Pierce Enemy makes the target bleed giving a damage over time attack and maybe add a gravity effect on the target. Something similar to Shield Bash, Weapon Bash but unique to the Polearm class and of course Dragoon.

Just some ideas, hope they are interesting.

Ophannus

10-16-2011, 03:10 AM

You'd have to clarify what En-breath means.

Ophannus

10-18-2011, 01:11 AM

Anxiously awaiting these DRG boosts so I can get to testing them! :D

Ophannus

10-18-2011, 10:31 PM

Something cool would be a JA that pays homage to pre-nerf Penta Thrust and allows the next multi hit WS to return full TP per hit. So if Drakesbane gives you back 20 for the first hit and 1 tp for subsequent hits, instead you'd get 20+20+20+20 which would give you 80%. On a 5min recast, this would be like a Sekkanoki for DRG mains.

Yugl

10-26-2011, 08:18 AM

A JA to grant an attack bonus, similar to tachi: Gekko, to all PT members would be cool. Similarly, improving PT member's TP return on WS either via extra TP gain per additional hit or a static value would be cool. Another JA or stance might actually grant people an additional hit on their next WS. Just a few thoughts, but the overall theme seems to be the inducement of extra hits and pdif bonuses.

ihm

10-28-2011, 07:40 PM

I gotta say, I do like your ideas.

Something I'd love to see is Lancer/Lancet/Dragon Sword, its always been my second fave DRG move obviously after jump, but it never was featured in XI which I thought always sucked. For those who don't know/remember, it used to drain a decent amount of hp and mp from the enemy.

On your idea of using the Holy Crest, something akin of Rei's Wind (From IX) would be cool, around a 30-60 second duration, 10-20 minute recast, 20+hp/tick regen, possibly tie it into the Relic bonuses as well... would be pretty sweet imo...

Ophannus

10-28-2011, 10:21 PM

Spirit Surge is our Lancet/Lancer/Dragon Sword. Spirit Surge in the JP version is called Ryuken(Dragon Sword).

Reiterpallasch

11-01-2011, 04:40 PM

I wouldn't mind seeing angon reworked as a job ability. Instead of the JA itself causing defense down by expending an angon, have the job ability just grant the ability to use different angon which have various effects.

Defense down, evasion down, attack down etc. Make them craftable, with HQ versions that have more potent effects.

Yugl

11-02-2011, 01:40 AM

Workable, but consider inventory and cost if doing so. Angon has the dual problem of being more expensive than arrows and cannot be stacked into 12x 99.

noodles355

11-02-2011, 08:15 AM

Inb4
SE: Here's 5 more versions of Angon for you with 5 new ammunitions!
Players: Awesome!
<One week later>
Players: 6 inventory slots sucks! You gave Cor and Nin universal tools/cards, give us universal angons too!

Ophannus

11-02-2011, 11:48 AM

From what Camate said, DRG had priority of getting buffs along with SCH THF PUP and WAR(nerfs) but all the former have been accounted for except the DRG boosts, when are we gonna get word of them! It would be a huge downer if after all this wait the only boosts they're adding are just lame enmity reduction of players behind us during Jump and High Jump(more worthless than Bully before it was fixed).

Also I imagine if they added new types of angons they'd have to weaken the effects of the Def Down effect or DRG might be too powerful. It would also overlap with other -stat effects like steps and feint etc. Angons were built in real life to have those flanges on them so that when the enemy blocks a thrown angon with their shield, they're unable to use their shield anymore. The angons were heavy and the flanges were angled away from the tip meaning they were impossible to remove by pulling them out. Due to this, the shield user had to abandon their shield that now has a heavy 5-foot pole sticking out of it. This is why Angon lowers def in ffxi. An angon that lowers m.def or accuracy wouldn't make much sense.

Ophannus

11-02-2011, 12:00 PM

One of the things I would LOVE is if they expanded Smiting Breath to be like Phantom Roll/Quick Draw in that once you select "Smiting Breath" it opens a list showing all the Elemental Breaths the wyvern has(Flame,Gust,Frost,Sand,Hydro,Lightning) and we can manually choose which breath to be used. This would help a million times over for proc'ing in Voidwatch and for magic bursts. Let the wyvern continue to use a random breath on WS but let us actually select the one we want to use with Smiting Breath. If they add debuffs or stat-down effects to Wyvern breaths, it would allow the DRG to select which one they want to be used, the same way a Corsair can select which Elemental-Shot to use with Quickdraw. By the same token, let us select the party member to use Restoring Breath on.

Jryan

11-02-2011, 06:56 PM

I would like to see 4 things for DRG
1- random elemental breaths in Voidwatch, because my wyvern always uses frost breath on Kaggen for example.
2- enfeebling breath on wyvern.
3- make shock spikes on Gungnir worth having. My shock spikes rarely even stun the mob that is hitting me. Maybe upgrade it to ice spikes with a potent paralyze?
4- attach special job abilities to relic / mythic / empyrean weapons at Lv. 99.

Ophannus

11-05-2011, 11:41 AM

Wonder what our new 2hr will be. They said completely different effects, so since Spirit Surge is a sustained effect with multiple attribute enhancement, I'd like a single use instant ability like a Hyper Jump. There is a really nice looking Jump animation in the .dats that looks exactly like a Super Jump except the polearm is thrown down followed by a crazy cool blue colored Fusion-Like explosion. I can post the .dat file # if anyone wants to view it on Altanaviewer, I hope that's our new 2hr or our new Jump that shares timer with Super Jump 96+

Ophannus

11-07-2011, 01:02 PM

If DRG gets anything out of thisa update, I pray it's at least a sustained buff that enhances our DD abilities or TP gaining abilities!

cidbahamut

11-09-2011, 02:21 AM

If DRG gets anything out of thisa update, I pray it's at least a sustained buff that enhances our DD abilities or TP gaining abilities!

This.

I love my wyvern to death, but I'd rather not put all of my eggs in one basket so to speak.

noodles355

11-09-2011, 02:25 AM

Drg TP gain is hardly slow.

Ophannus

11-09-2011, 04:43 AM

It isn't but why not make it even better?

noodles355

11-09-2011, 08:29 AM

Balance..?

Ophannus

11-09-2011, 10:01 AM

Our WS damage is behind WAR SAM MNK NIN DRK(Torcleaver) RNG. Drakesbane is nice but doesn't put out more than 1500 very easily on VW wheras Ukko does 2000-2800 with ease. So if we can't come close to their WS damage at least let us beat them in WS quantity to make up for it with even faster TP gain. Let SAM be the king of TP through JAs like Sekkanoki/Meditate/Store TP/Hagukre. Let DRG be the king of gaining TP through instant attacks like Jumps. So a universal decrease in jump timers or adding more jumps to give us TP would be sweet.

cidbahamut

11-09-2011, 11:03 PM

Balance..?

Balance? In my Official Forums?

noodles355

11-10-2011, 12:40 AM

Our WS damage is behind WAR SAM MNK NIN DRK(Torcleaver) RNG. Drakesbane is nice but doesn't put out more than 1500 very easily on VW wheras Ukko does 2000-2800 with ease. Pulling numbers completely out of your ass there I see.

Ophannus

11-17-2011, 11:21 PM

The Dev team said DRG was a priority in terms of adjustments but so far they've updated SCH WAR PUP THF like they said they would and are implementing Level 99 and level 96+ spells and abilities on the test server soon but still no word on DRG adjustments yet, getting worried that they scrapped it...

Thonuwan

11-18-2011, 04:33 AM

It is very possible that another update will be given that gives more detail about JA's. I know that this said that it as listing the SUM and COR additions as JA but to me they seem more like spells. This idea is also supported by the fact that no other jobs had mentions of JA additions and changes.

Ophannus

11-18-2011, 07:17 AM

But that would be for the 99 level cap. SE said they were going to adjust DRG pre 95. If we're only getting things 96+ that isn't "adjusting DRG" like how they said, that's just business as usual for level caps. They said they were going to be buffing SCH(They got Light Arts boosts), THF(Bully was upgraded, TH procs on WS), PUP(New AI and attachment buffs) and WAR nerfs and DRG was included in the list of jobs with adjustment priority.

Thonuwan

11-18-2011, 11:53 AM

Ah, I see the distinction now.

Ophannus

11-19-2011, 11:21 AM

Wanted to "jump" in here (get it?) and give our dragoons some cool tidbits on what's in store for them.

After we complete our highest priority tasks of adjusting puppetmaster, scholar, and the firepower of warrior, we would like to add on to the adjustments we made to Wyverns in the 9/19 major version update by adjusting dragoons themselves. We'll be sure to let you know all the details once they become finalized!

Was kind of hoping this would be implemented BEFORE the 99 cap increase. Anything we get 96+ isn't a readjustment, it's just regular business as usual for level cap increases.

I figured THIS would be for level 96+

Also, this may not be implemented at the same time as the dragoon adjustments, but we plan on adding "Healing Breath IV" to Wyverns and increasing the number of status ailments that can be cured by "Remove Breath."

Tsukino_Kaji

11-19-2011, 07:24 PM

Ideas for DRG updatesJumps that do not share timers please.

Meldity

11-22-2011, 12:42 PM

MODS you probably get sick of hearing this but i'm one of those Gungnir holders that terribly regrets his decision for not getting a Ryunohige and so i'm going to drop my complaint in your box here.

1.) Gungnirs aftermath shock spikes not only do almost near to 0-20 damage but it doesn't even stun the mob, and even on once in a blue moon the chance for it to stun a monster is less than 0.5% on any mob I've fought solo. This including easy prey mobs.
2.) Drakesbane still beats Geirskogul in damage EVEN WITH Gungnir being at lvl95(including the 20-25% damage boost), and the sad part is that Drakesbane beats its damage in EVERY SITUATION POSSIBLE.

Can you please do something about my Gungnir's Geirskogul to a certain point where it will actually be useful in some situation? I mean if you're going to make my weapon unique and give Gungnir its own weaponskill why not make it actually a viable option when it comes to a battle with anything?

I just want an update where I don't have to regret my decision of getting Gungnir anymore. :[
And I'm pretty sure that anyone on drg forums can hands down agree that Ryunohige beats Gungnir in almost any situation as Ryunohige can even par in terms of damage with even Ukko's Fury or Metatron Torment.

Fellow dragoons, heed my call!

Ophannus

11-23-2011, 09:30 AM

I think the Development team should REALLY look into changing the Shock Spikes of Gungnir. Gungnir is the laughing stock of the entire game. Mandau and Ragnarok get a critical hit bonus, Apocalypse gets a major haste boost, great axe gets damage taken% down. And then there's Gungnir which gets Shock Spikes. Before I ask that the Development Team remove Shock Spikes aftermath and replace with something more useful, I'd REALLY like to know the psychology of its intention! Did they think that Shock Spikes might be useful for if the Dragoon happened to acquire hate?(Even though this was before the 2hand update and our best WS was Wheeling Thrust which also did like 400-500 damage). Even so, the shock spikes back then still did 0-18 damage and rarely stunned anything over Even Match. I under stand DRG is a pet class and having a strong aftermath might have seemed overpowering, but even Guttler has an Attack+10% Aftermath.

In addition to the promised DRG updates could you replace Shock Spikes on our relic with something akin to Excalibur's "Additional Effect varies with HP" but with "varies with Wyvern HP". This way our Aftermath would grant us an enthunder(but really nonelemental like Excalibur's enlight" effect that adds damage equal to 25% of our Wyvern's Current HP.

Ophannus

11-24-2011, 03:27 AM

Furthermore, I don't understand why Geirskogul is modified by AGILITY. Not only does Gungnir have a really awful altana-foresaken aftermath, but the modifier happens to be Dragoon's >lowest< base attribute. Why!? This is becoming a really awful pattern with Dragoon it seems. Camlann's Torment has a VIT modifier yet Victory Smite, which is used by MNKs has a STR modifier. DRG has higher STR than MNK and MNK has higher VIT than DRG yet MNK gets the STR mod and DRG gets the VIT mod.

Geirskogul doesn't even need a damage boost, just change the modifier to 60% STR instead of 60% AGI and replace the shockspikes aftermath with "Additional Effect: Damage varies with Wyvern HP".

Tsukino_Kaji

11-25-2011, 02:41 PM

Dev answer: Use Drakesbane. lol

Amador

11-27-2011, 04:21 AM

As a Gungnir owner I have to say most of this is true.

The Shock Spikes IMO seem to be broken. They don't even stun, I can't recall the last time they stunned something. 100%-300% they seem utterly useless.

AGI60% Is quite funny. I was upset when I saw this too, not only is it the DRG that lacks a major amount of AGI as a base attribute but so does our equipment. An ideal AGI set up has around +45 at the very most. Which is ridiculous considering how much STR certain jobs, including DRG.

I would love to see a change, an actual balance that shows a little more definition to the job and a little more respect to it.

It makes you wonder how the devs truly view jobs in this game, if they just have a text outline or have actually gone through their own story quests and experiences the jobs first hand to see what is missing and what isn't. Other jobs get favored for popularity rights, and get swarmed with ideas and updates regarding little aspects here and there. Yet they never look at the whole picture and focus on a specified role.

Ophannus

11-27-2011, 09:06 AM

I feel like the Devs really don't care about DRG and I'm not being biased. If you look at the history of DRG updates we've really come a long way from having to /heal and lose TP to heal the Wyvern's HP between fights before they gave us Spirit Link or changed Call Wyern to a 20min timer. Then there's Spirit Surge. A rushed attempt at a '2hr' to replace Call Wyvern. It lacks focus or thought and the only good thing about it is it heals us and gives us a haste boost(albeit a magical one which makes it worthless if we have March or Haste up). The Jump Defense Down is pointless with Angon and it doesn't even grant the Wyvern bonus for Spirit or Soul Jump so it's actually detrimental now to our damage gain to even use Spirit Surge these days.

Then there's the little things I noticed over the years. DRG is supposed to be a Knight job in terms of armor class. That mean's it's supposed to fit along with PLD/DRK/SAM but for years we were stuck with RDM's armor class(leather,scale) we still can't use chainmail to this day, though NIN can. NIN can wear Royal Knight Chainmail and maintain high evasion but DRG, the job that stresses mobility and Jumping miles into the air has terrible evasion and fights dragons in leather armor? How is a far eastern ninja more qualified to wear Royal Knight Chainmail than a Dragon Knight, the highest Royal Knight possible?

Speaking of little things, there are 3 earrings in TOAU buyable with IS. Chaos Earring, Priest's Earring and Haten Earring. All 3 of these earrings grant a latent effect while under Arcane Circle, Holy Circle or Warding Circle respectively. Interestingly there isn't one for Ancient Circle. DRK SAM PLD and DRG are all knight jobs, we all get Killers,Circles and a Breaker(Dragon Breaker/Sepulcher/Arcane Crest/Hamonoha) and Bashes. Oh wait, DRG doesn't get a Bash. Would it kill the devs to throw in a level 15 Pommel Bash or a Bash Jump that does no Damage no give TP but stuns the mob? Then there's traits. DRK=Attack Bonus specialty PLD=Defense Bonus Speciality SAM= Store TP Specialty DRG= Attack Bonus1/Accuracy Bonus 1 for years, and that was our ONLY traits. They gave us Conserve TP and Accuracy Bonus II and III recently but it would be nice if they gave us either Accuracy Bonus up to VI like PLD/SAM/DRK or at least gave us Attack Bonus III so we'd be Half and Half with Attack Bonus and Accuracy Bonus traits. Conserve TP is neat and all but it's mostly a novelty. Would be nice to receive a unique job trait that can proc on normal hits like a Kick Attack/Double Attack/Zanshin except it could ignore defense for a hit and stack with WS>

Meldity

11-27-2011, 12:44 PM

Oh well i'm just throwing this out there in hopes it turns out to be a good idea.

Seems like devs want drg to use angon yet gungnir for most of the time, replaces angon once you put it on the mob anyway. Not only that it reduces it down to 30s when you have angon capped at 1:30 seconds and that is very tedious..

Why not give Geirskogul a def down property similiar to Metatron Torment and Garland of Bliss? And maybe something to replace shock spikes and gungnir's def down property.

Amador

11-29-2011, 02:35 AM

The reality of it all isn't just about Angon or Gungnir at all.

There are a handful of weapons to use, the fault lies within the Dragoon itself and the lack of damage it's been given.

Compare a DRG's combat traits to that of WAR and SAM, or even MNK. It's non existent. DRG recently got a ATK Bonus II Trait. Cute, but sadly 13 attack isn't anything at all.

We lack core traits that provide a boost to us.

We need something that further increases our attack, not accuracy. Our damage overall, abilities which promote this and the ability to better do things with our Wyvern.

Thus far we've been given: Restoring Breath, Smiting Breath, Atk Bonus II, Crit Def Bonus(Lolwut?) Acc Bonus III, Shared Timer Jumps, a Frontal AOE WS, an Empyrean that's bolsters looks more than practicality and Empyrean Armor that while insanely good, doesn't stack up to what they gave other jobs.

Why is it that as a Pet Job we have to be weakened more so simply because we are a pet job?

Just recently we were given a Pet that can survive slightly longer. Does it perform better in battle? Not really, does it absorb useful buffs when we use spirit link? Sometimes "Wyvern's Hasso Effect wears off!"

A number of jobs were given: Increases Critical Hit Damage, Increase Critical Hit Rate, Attack Boosts that surpass Attack Bonus II, and really destructive WS's.

Why is it that Dragoon is still using the same WS's from: 2006(ToAU) Isn't that a bit shameful and unimaginative of the FF Dev focal team?

I love Dragoon, but it sucks to be able to call out that this game is focused towards 6-7 jobs vs the other 13-14 jobs that are in the world of Final Fantasy 11.

This job could be adjusted and made better in one update. They fear backlash and 'over power' but in reality that's what they have been doing to jobs like: SAM WAR RNG MNK over the years repeatedly month after month to the point where it's easy to call it out. This isn't to flame SAM WAR RNG MNK. However, the lack of attention a lot of jobs not just DRG receives is ridiculous.

Ophannus

11-29-2011, 03:47 AM

I made some neat suggestions some pages ago, look em over. But I'm starting to worry that the devs aren't going to buff DRG at all specifically but just give something new to every job for 96+ and then retroactively turn around and say that that was our 'adjustment' even though we were going to get it anyway.

Was figuring that they would adjust DRG's power firstly(Like how they added Konzen-ittai to SAM a few months ago for SAM65, then add new stuff for 96+. There's SO much room to add stuff for DRG! We get like no traits between 51 and 78 and no job abilities between 50 and 78. Can they remove Critical Defense Bonus with Critical Attack Bonus?

DRG specializes in multi hit critical WS and our new Jumps deal critical damage! WAR gets their AF3 feet that buffs Crit damage AND they get Critical Attack Bonus, why not DRG too! ; ;

Amador

11-29-2011, 07:22 AM

That isn't the only thing, let's not forget they were planning/are planning to give WAR a frontal 100% Critical Hit Ability.

DRG would benefit more from a Critical Damage Boost, or a Critical Hit Rate Boost. This is true, DRG to this date is very naked when it comes to abilities, and job traits. They want to add in: Healing Breath IV next and feel that this alone is enough.

I really expect and hope that DRG gets more towards itself as far as being a better damage dealer, and offensive player. Crit Def Bonus was a mistake. During that update other jobs recieved Critical Hit Damage, and other such traits.

The original plan was to make WAR live longer right? Why didn't they give them the Crit Def Bonus and us the Attack Damage up? Is it truly essential that war can reach the 100% Critical Hit Damage cap? It's just silly and unplanned as they choose to implement job traits. Very unbalance and unorganized. Small dev team or not, I really wish they'd show interest in other jobs rather than the same ones update after update.

Ophannus

11-29-2011, 07:36 AM

Healing Breath IV is a huge mistake. For one, my Healing Breath III does 602 right now with 1k+ Deep Breathing and without any more gear it'll probably increase to ~620-630 and 1100 by the time DRG hits 99 from the Wyvern gaining more HP. With Wyvern HP Bonus my HBIII does around 750ish and DB buffs it to 1280. This is ENOUGH. If healing breath IV increases my breath power to the 850-900 range why not give RDM Cure V? DRG would technically be a stronger healer than RDM if we receive HBIV simply because our Breaths are fast, cost 0-5mp and create no enmity and can't be interrupted except with Amnesia. They already gave BLU potent cures and now they want to give DRG, a damage dealer, the equivalent of Cure 5.5. There's no need. A 600 HP cure from Healing Breath III is plenty fine for me because it's a free Cure 5 for myself every minute as /SAM which is way more than any other DD including MNK's Chakra.

SE wants to give WAR a crit100% for the next hit JA similar to how other jobs get a 'mini 2hr' aka Manawell/Spontaneity/Sekkanoki etc.

DRG is a good DD but other DDs are better because they have so many JAs that specialize them. SAM has a half dozen ways to self skillchain and a few traits and JAs to increase the damage of said SCs. WAR specializes in strong powerful weapon skills and they have numerous ways to enhance their own damage, gain TP quickly while dealing damage. MNK maintains the specialty of hitting multiple times per attack round, gaining ridiculous amounts of TP and dealing incredible damage over time(a very short amount of time). DRG seems to specialize in quick instant hits that ignore delay(jumps) but we're limited to 2 of these every 1.5-3 minutes. Compared to how often a SAM can self SC, how fast a MNK attacks, how strong a WAR's WS are, these jumps effectiveness aren't as strong. Reducing their recast or removing the shared timer would be heaven for us and would put us up there with the other strong DDs. Let DRG have a specialty and let it be having quick, strong, instant damage dealing JAs that have a host of effects. Jump=Stun High Jump=Sheds own hate Super Jump=Remove hate completely Spirit Jump/Soul Jump= Crit+more TP with Wyvern out. Could even make a final Jump deal massive damage, give 5x TP but sacrifices the Wyvern like Spirit Surge does.

Amador

11-29-2011, 07:54 AM

Correction, other DD's are better because they gain access to Berserk and Warcry easily while keeping a 5 hit - 6 hit easily and still being able to benefit from Hasso and Seigan.

It's not just a simple difference, it's the difference of over 200 Attack points. It's ridiculous.

Ophannus

11-29-2011, 11:32 AM

Other DDs meaning WAR/SAM and SAM/WAR, the perfect combos because both get DA/Attack Bonus/Hasso/Seigen/Third Eye/Sekkanoki/Meditate/Berserk/Aggressor/Warcry. The other JAs they get 49+ are icing on the cake. Extremely powerful combination of abilities that DRG can't compare with any sub, but /SAM beats /WAR so we're forced into that, but I'd love me some +25% Attack and +10% Double Attack... SAM and WAR are lucky because they keep their 5 hits and still get Berserk and Hasso.

Ophannus

11-30-2011, 12:57 AM

The new Polearm WS looks nice, it looks like a 4 hitter, but I somehow doubt it will be Critical Hit unless SE is awesome and makes it a slightly better Drakesbane. It'll probably be Damage varies with TP or Ignores Defense. Only way it'll beat Drakesbane is if it's a 4 hit Crit WS with a high fTP and STR50% DEX50% WSC. The animation is awesome so I hope they do make it better than Drakes

Yugl

11-30-2011, 01:20 PM

Ophannus

12-01-2011, 01:18 AM

If it is better than Drakesbane, incoming WAR and SAM using it too. Especially WARs that don't have Ukkos, I can see them putting on a high dmg Polearm and going to town with a 4 hit crit WS and theirs will probably outdamage ours since they have DA/Berserk/Bloodrage and SAM's will too since they have Overwhelm and can spam it with all their TP JAs.

Amador

12-03-2011, 04:44 PM

I still push for DRG as influencing the PT's overall damage rather than the DRG's own damage since it's clear that SE intends to make WAR the top DD, which effectively pushes competing DD out of relevancy where damage is the only concern. Given the incoming multi-hit WS and DRG's personal familiarity with multi-hit WS (Or the "2h MNK" as SE might imply given MNK and DRG commonalities). One might suggest, for example, granting a damage bonus (Either in the form of fTP bonus or ATT multiplier) to additional hits (And DA/TAed hits) of a WS.

I can't seem to agree with that, I would hate DRG to fall behind that badly while it's neglected completely on abilities, traits, and performance. While other jobs whom get constant attention, benefits and the above simply use DRG as a utility.

Angon, and now Enemy Critical Evasion Down.

There's no rhyme or reason to this. There's no reason why all jobs can't partake in being able to provide to their fellow party member to be better and more efficient.

They've even stated it in previous dev posts on how they want to focus more on the Dragoon itself the next time they update it, and not on the Wyvern. To beef the Dragoon itself, it's in need of it. Quite simply that.

As far as the Stardiver comments, it wouldn't take much to beat out Drakesbane. It's only a 4.0ftp 50% STR Crit WS.
Stardiver is 100% STR 4 hit, unfortunately it's 3.75 fTP. If it was a 4.0 it'd more than likely match and beat Drakesbane out of Abyssea on Average. If it was a 4.25-4.50 fTP ws it would destroy Drakesbane.

Half and Half mods such as 50% Str and 50% Dex wouldn't mean much, except a little extra damage here and there from gear that shares both attributes such as Rajas Ring. You'd still gear for Str regardless.

Stardiver has potential to be a crazy WS. Either through means of the new Nyzul +5 gear, and or through a change in it's current formula.

Regardless of which way it goes, I still say DRG needs attention in it's trait and ability department. Otherwise, how long till it gets to the point where party set ups for events are simply: WAR WAR WAR WAR COR SCH? SAM SAM SAM SAM COR SCH? Same scenario, but if they continue this "Beef up certain jobs", and "allow other jobs to beef up those certain jobs more" then there's going to be no versatility to this game at all.

Unless of course the new AV is a giant Colibri.

Ophannus

12-06-2011, 01:52 AM

DRG isn't meant to out DD or be on the same level as WAR and SAM. Otherwise DRG would be overpowered. The reasoning is we sacrifice part of our damage because we have things like Super Jump which eliminates all hate and makes us invincible for about 6 seconds, Restoring Breath..a hateless, uninterruptable, fairly quick and MP-less Cure V every 60 seconds(wayyyy better than Chakra or Waltz considering its free and hateless). So to balance out the fact that we're not up there with SAM and WAR which only have damage abilities, we have some limited support capability and debuffing abilities to enhance ourselves. DRGs are pretty good DDs we're probably #4 under WAR/SAM/MNK which is fine considering those jobs are pure DDs with no support abilities really, DRG has healing, angon and a pet so it's fine with me that our damage doesn't match theirs.

The damage disparity between DRG and those other 3 DDs jobs isn't as wide as say DRK BLU THF RNG or PUP, keep in mind.

Furlow

12-08-2011, 08:58 AM

Pretty long thread to read through entire thing, but here's my thought and hopefuly not already said. I realy think Wyverns should Join their masters on the jump.

Idea of changing colors for Wyvern is awsome, I do think slight looks would be pretty cool so not all so Uniform. Like slight changes on the head fins, maybe a spiky looking form. Or even a tattered wing look. Comboing that with more color variations realy would make for some uniqueness.

noodles355

12-11-2011, 07:36 AM

As far as the Stardiver comments, it wouldn't take much to beat out Drakesbane. It's only a 4.0ftp 50% STR Crit WS.
Stardiver is 100% STR 4 hit, unfortunately it's 3.75 fTP.Stardiver is 3.00ftp. Each of the 4 hits has 0.75ftp, instead of normally only having 0.75ftp on the first and 1.00 on the rest. The Enemy Crit Down is only 5%. In short, the WS sucks. @%$& you SE.

Ophannus

12-11-2011, 08:38 AM

Ophannus

12-11-2011, 08:42 AM

Also, just like Reamlizer is going to be the strongest club WS for those without Hexa(read as non WHMs), Stardiver is going to be the strongest weapon skill for those without Drakesbane(read as non DRGs). So I think these WS are mostly for other jobs rather than the main job as SE demonstrated by weakening Club and saying it's for nonWHMs rather than WHM. This WS isn't DRG specific, it's SAM/DRG/WAR, and were Stardiver as strong or stronger than Drakesbane, SAM or WAR would probably make better use than DRG with it(not every WAR has Ukkos so many would just throw on Polearm and take advantage of Stardiver if it was another strong multihit-crit ws)

Ophannus

12-11-2011, 11:35 AM

According to Studio Gobli, Drakesbane has a 20% Attack Penalty. And I do mean Drakesbane, not Stardiver. Discuss.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www32.atwiki.jp/studiogobli/pages/25.html&ei=dRXkTv2YJqTl0QGP-8DIBQ&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CFQQ7gEwAw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dstudiogobli%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1366%26bih%3D585%26prmd%3Dimvns

noodles355

12-11-2011, 11:49 PM

The 5% hasn't been confirmed only speculated. His parse showed ~7.5% and he only did 49 trials, to get an accurate reading, someone needs to do at least 1,000 trials, so it could be 10%+ we have to test it more.It's between 5-9%.

According to Studio Gobli, Drakesbane has a 20% Attack Penalty. And I do mean Drakesbane, not Stardiver. Discuss.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www32.atwiki.jp/studiogobli/pages/25.html&ei=dRXkTv2YJqTl0QGP-8DIBQ&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CFQQ7gEwAw&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dstudiogobli%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1366%26bih%3D585%26prmd%3DimvnsDoesn't surprise me. I always thought Drakesbane numbers were lower than they should be. I put it down to a zero/very small crit rate boost at 100%TP, but an attack penalty also makes sense.

Ophannus

12-14-2011, 05:10 AM

If they're not going to give us stronger weapon skills, at least remove that Attack penalty on Drakesbane so it can compete better with Victory Smite/Ukkos Fury/Fudo. One of DRG's biggest problems is Attack and having negative attack penalties on our best weapon skill is awful.

Ophannus

12-16-2011, 09:29 AM

Woul kill for a Pet Command to stop the Wyvern from using Elemental Breaths when executing a TP move so I can steal its TP with Spirit Link more often. Adding that property to Spirit Link was a nice gesture, but its hard to use when a DRG uses WS so often and the Wyvern only has like 6% TP at any given time. Also capping the amount of HP the DRG loses when using Spirit Link so I dont lose 800 HP to give my Wyvern 50 when I wanna dismiss it or something. Or even traits like Stalwart Soul that reduce the % of HP lost during Spirit Link would be awesome.

Ophannus

12-16-2011, 11:15 PM

I wonder if we got Accuracy Bonus IV this 96+ since most jobs got new traits like Crit Attack Bonus III, Dual Wield III, Fencer V etc. I bet the only trait we got 95+ is Critical Defense Bonus II cuz that helps DRG so much -_-

Would be really really great if DRG got their own special job trait how like DRK and SCH have Occult Accumen. DRG did get Conserve TP along with DNC but its effect is inconsistent and unreliable compared to Double Attack/Store TP etc..

Removing Critical Defense Bonus and replacing it with Critical Attack Bonus would be a step in the right direction. Giving DRG Critical Defense Bonus is like giving THF "Magic Attack Bonus". DRG does not tank and we RARELY take hate (considering our Weapon Skills deal MODERATE damage compared to WAR/SAM/MNK, it's more likely THOSE jobs would take hate and receive direct melee damage, not a DRG. Therefore it completely boggles my mind as to why DRG has Critical Defense Bonus. DRG can make much better use of Critical Attack Bonus trait than DRK since DRK has no critical hit abilities or weapon skills but DRG has Spirit Jump, Soul Jump, Drakesbane and Skewer.