Blood Weapon is not a 2hr Camate, please help! [Archive]

Urteil

11-05-2011, 09:22 PM

If Scholar can solo Shinryuu on the Test server without a brew.

And besides that extreme example we have:

Chainspell
Hundredfists
Meiko-Kill-Everything

How can the dev's even consider Blood Weapon a two hour, and are there any chances to at the very least, extend the duration?

Or something? Damage multiplier. I mean at its best its a 10 minute ability.

Tabula Rasa lasts three minutes now, and I certainly can't go solo him with Blood Weapon.

I suppose the good news is that we can only go up from here because of how absolutley terrible it is.

*Oh and make perfect dodge, dodge ranged attacks, that's stupid.

Arcon

11-05-2011, 09:33 PM

*Oh and make perfect dodge, dodge ranged attacks, that's stupid.

I completely agree.

Cljader1

11-05-2011, 09:54 PM

I got a question for camate, camate is it because of the bloodweapon souleater kraken club combo on Absolute Virtue that our 2hr cant get an overhaul. I hope thats not holding us back...we need some adjustments to our 2hr, if you guys have any plans for this or are considering this can you please tell us

Greatguardian

11-06-2011, 02:16 AM

Damage multiplier

Lol.

Souleater.

Nynja

11-06-2011, 03:29 AM

Maybe its time you level a new job...?

Ophannus

11-06-2011, 03:50 AM

1) How does a SCH solo Shinryu now?
2) Spirit Surge is a pretty lame 2hr too, if the DRG is already getting haste/march, half of its allure is gone, then all it serves to do is give us +15STR and a small max HP boost. Our Jumps are gimped because it consumes our wyvern and the 20% Def down from Jump is 'meh' because it doesn't stack with Angon.

Babekeke

11-06-2011, 05:08 AM

Malamasala

11-06-2011, 06:16 AM

I'd assume it is same stupidity as with spirits.

If your 2 hour sucks (like spirits) it is a waste to update it since the time could be put on something that already works and make it better.

Observe that it isn't me that thinks this way, it is half the player base and developers.

Greatguardian

11-06-2011, 07:13 AM

The smart half.

Camiie

11-06-2011, 09:25 AM

Maybe its time you level a new job...?

One major problem with FFXI is this seems to be a serious answer to any imbalances.

Alhanelem

11-06-2011, 09:56 AM

If a job has a problem, that problem should be fixed. The solution to that problem shouldn't be "play a job that doesn't suck as bad."

Greatguardian

11-06-2011, 11:18 AM

One major problem with FFXI is this seems to be a serious answer to any imbalances.

Except this is how FFXI was designed to be played.

Alhanelem

11-06-2011, 11:20 AM

Except this is how FFXI was designed to be played.No, it's not. It's how Elitists want it to be played. They want the jobs they bandwagoned to stay the all-around best for everything and just ignore all the other ones.

It's in an elitists nature to play whatever jobs are viewed as the most powerful. We shouldn't be looking at <insert job here> and saying it sucks. They should be balanced. Saying <insert job here> is useful for this one fight that no one does is not justificaiton for things to remain the way they are. This applies to all jobs that are currently not in the spotlight, not any one in particular.

All jobs should have something they are valued for. There are several jobs whom the elitist community doesn't really value for anything, except possibly a voidwatch NM proc. And even then, the job isn't being valued for anything it does in particular.

Even if they specifically designed a particular encounter to be beaten by a party consisting of a BST, PUP, DNC, RDM, PLD and RNG, the elitist community would find a way to beat it with a few MNKs and a white mage and then tell the rest of the players that they must use these jobs to win.

You once said that the dev team specifically designs fights for particular job combinations to be the most effective. I wholly agree with that. It's only a problem when the current bandwagon jobs are still better even when the dev team built the encounter for other jobs.

Nynja

11-06-2011, 11:33 AM

One major problem with FFXI is this seems to be a serious answer to any imbalances.

If a job has a problem, that problem should be fixed. The solution to that problem shouldn't be "play a job that doesn't suck as bad."

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Phoenix/Urteil

He has ONE job leveled...

No, it's not. It's how Elitists want it to be played. They want the jobs they bandwagoned to stay the all-around best for everything and just ignore all the other ones.

If you werent meant to have multiple jobs leveled, then FFXI would be like WoW where you can only play one class per character.

Cljader1

11-06-2011, 11:56 AM

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Phoenix/Urteil

He has ONE job leveled...

If you werent meant to have multiple jobs leveled, then FFXI would be like WoW where you can only play one class per character.

So what if he deos have one job leveled, what does that have to do with anything? Blood Weapon still need to be fixed, stating that he has one job leveled is irrelevant.

Camiie

11-06-2011, 12:16 PM

If you werent meant to have multiple jobs leveled, then FFXI would be like WoW where you can only play one class per character.

It's an optional feature, not a requirement. You have THE CHOICE to level all 20 jobs on a single character. You can also choose to level only one (Yes I know people need their subjobs). It's for the sake of convenience.

It should not, in ANY way be used as a reason or excuse for game play imbalances. Each job should be treated as though it is the only job a person might want to play within its primary role or multiple roles when dealing with hybrids. Every job should have a place in whatever event a person might want to participate in.

And no, they don't all have to end up the same job. They CAN play differently and still arrive at the same or closely similar results. It just takes a bit of imagination and ingenuity from the players and SE.

Nynja

11-06-2011, 12:17 PM

If you looked at his posts on the boards, he emos EVERYWHERE about drk.

I emo everywhere too, but its about actual problems...not "WAH I LOVE DRK AND YOU MAKE IT SUCK U SUK SE".

Alhanelem

11-06-2011, 12:19 PM

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Phoenix/Urteil

He has ONE job leveled...

If you werent meant to have multiple jobs leveled, then FFXI would be like WoW where you can only play one class per character.
My last post wasn't really directed at Urteil. I fully agree that we're meant to take advantage of multiple jobs. Provided that you've done so, one or more of them should be desireable for a given event. All jobs that can be feasably fit into a particular role archetype should be competitive in that archetype. E.g. each job with an innate ability to heal (coming from the main job) should be able to be used when a healer is required. Each job who uses weapons for doing damage should be able to be useable when a melee damage dealer is needed. etcetera... SE didn't design the game with 20 jobs so that only 5 of them would ever be practical for your typical new content. Individual fights are each directed at various party makeups, but a whole new event with many fights / things to do should have something within them that each job can be considered useful for.

As far as DRK is concerned specifically, I think a lot of people would agree it's not up to par as far as its ability to do damage. DRK's current 2 hour is made for survival (though it lasts far too short to be useful, considering how slow 2H weapons are). DRK indeed does need some love, though not being a dedicated DRK, I won't claim to have an ideal way to improve it.

Perhaps the new merited 2-hour will be more offense-oriented.

Spiritreaver

11-06-2011, 01:00 PM

Greatguardian

11-06-2011, 01:15 PM

No, it's not. It's how Elitists want it to be played. They want the jobs they bandwagoned to stay the all-around best for everything and just ignore all the other ones.

It's in an elitists nature to play whatever jobs are viewed as the most powerful. We shouldn't be looking at <insert job here> and saying it sucks. They should be balanced. Saying <insert job here> is useful for this one fight that no one does is not justificaiton for things to remain the way they are. This applies to all jobs that are currently not in the spotlight, not any one in particular.

All jobs should have something they are valued for. There are several jobs whom the elitist community doesn't really value for anything, except possibly a voidwatch NM proc. And even then, the job isn't being valued for anything it does in particular.

Even if they specifically designed a particular encounter to be beaten by a party consisting of a BST, PUP, DNC, RDM, PLD and RNG, the elitist community would find a way to beat it with a few MNKs and a white mage and then tell the rest of the players that they must use these jobs to win.

You once said that the dev team specifically designs fights for particular job combinations to be the most effective. I wholly agree with that. It's only a problem when the current bandwagon jobs are still better even when the dev team built the encounter for other jobs.

Nah.

The Devs very clearly designed the game with the concept of switching jobs to suit your situation in mind. There is no "I want to come Summoner to everything" for them. It's, "What jobs work best here? Okay, go switch to them." The game is designed around the skill of the player and the ability to tactically discern what jobs fit what roles best in any particular situation. There is no need to separate player skill and job choice because they're meant to be the same thing. Good players know that they should come Warrior, Ninja, Monk, White Mage, Black Mage, or Blue Mage to Abyssea.

All jobs have some role, somewhere. It is not the Dev's fault, or anyone's fault, if a certain community chooses not to value what things that certain jobs are good at. I really do not give a shit about PUP's solo ability, because I don't need to solo anything. Summoner? Same thing. It is absolutely worthless to me because I choose not to assign value to those things that it is good at.

I'd really like an example of a fight that is very clearly designed to be handled with off-jobs that the "elitist community" (by this do you mean BG? Or who? I don't even know who this is supposed to mean) beats with Monks and tells everyone else to take Monks to, though.

I'll tell you right now, though, I definitely don't bring my Monk to everything.

Alhanelem

11-06-2011, 01:35 PM

Nah.

The Devs very clearly designed the game with the concept of switching jobs to suit your situation in mind.Um, yeah, that's what I said, you just used different words.

Okay, go switch to them." The game is designed around the skill of the player and the ability to tactically discern what jobs fit what roles best in any particular situation.The problem here is, at least according to the elitist fanbase, there are several jobs that virtually never are tactically discerned to be what fits best in a particular situation. If you don't tihnk that's a problem, then you'd be wrong.

There is no "I want to come Summoner to everything" for them. It's, "What jobs work best here? Okay, go switch to them."I agree with this. I'm also a firm believer that one or more parts of various content should have <insert job here> in the "what jobs work best here?"

Unfortunately, that isn't the case. Four or five bandwagon jobs are used for almost everything, no matter what the dev team designs them for.

Greatguardian

11-06-2011, 05:03 PM

The problem here is, at least according to the elitist fanbase, there are several jobs that virtually never are tactically discerned to be what fits best in a particular situation. If you don't tihnk that's a problem, then you'd be wrong.

You keep using this term. You keep bringing up these strawmen elitists. How about you figure out what jobs fill what roles well, objectively, and stop giving so many shits about what this perceived community thinks. I say perceived, because you would be damned surprised if you knew how tolerant and diverse the vast majority of BG is these days. The real elite players on there don't ostracize jobs for the sake of ostracizing jobs. When Summoner is ideal for something, these people use Summoner.

You care far too much about, what exactly? Your ability to join pickup parties? Play with friends and/or smart players for a week and you'll see just how sad this "oh noes elitist fascism" bullcrap is.

Edit: And as for bandwagons, blame casual content. I dare you to show me all these bandwagoners blitzing through Voidwatch Part 2 on bandwagon jobs.

When you design content such that a group of 18 orangutans of literally any job combination could win, no shit will people burn it down to its most efficient core. Diversity requires interesting, engaging, challenging content.

You don't need to sit around and tell everyone how "good" some C-string job can be in the hands of a good player. All of us "Elitist jerks" already know, because we have friends who come on those C-string jobs regularly and who could still demolish the vast majority of their "Supporters" on these forums. No shit, a good Blu can be really damn good. I know some really damn good BLUs. Point is, most people are not good at FFXI. And you know what happens when people are straight up not good at FFXI? They flock towards the biggest damn crutch they can find. There's your bandwagon. Quit blaming "Elitist Jerks" for bandwagon jobs. We don't tell you jack shit. People take flocks of shitty Monks to Abyssea because they'd wipe even worse on other jobs.

Cljader1

11-06-2011, 06:31 PM

Nah.

The Devs very clearly designed the game with the concept of switching jobs to suit your situation in mind. There is no "I want to come Summoner to everything" for them. It's, "What jobs work best here? Okay, go switch to them." The game is designed around the skill of the player and the ability to tactically discern what jobs fit what roles best in any particular situation. There is no need to separate player skill and job choice because they're meant to be the same thing. Good players know that they should come Warrior, Ninja, Monk, White Mage, Black Mage, or Blue Mage to Abyssea.

All jobs have some role, somewhere. It is not the Dev's fault, or anyone's fault, if a certain community chooses not to value what things that certain jobs are good at. I really do not give a shit about PUP's solo ability, because I don't need to solo anything. Summoner? Same thing. It is absolutely worthless to me because I choose not to assign value to those things that it is good at.

I'd really like an example of a fight that is very clearly designed to be handled with off-jobs that the "elitist community" (by this do you mean BG? Or who? I don't even know who this is supposed to mean) beats with Monks and tells everyone else to take Monks to, though.

I'll tell you right now, though, I definitely don't bring my Monk to everything.

Um...right...guy whatever you say

SNK

11-06-2011, 07:03 PM

Mavrick

11-06-2011, 11:12 PM

The way to fix Blood Weapon... remove DRK from K Club and Octave Club. Then un-gimp BW on the NMs that they gimped it on (like AV that was mentioned). Price will drop on K club, and rise on merc Kris, but that's not the end of the world. People might even try to get a ridill again.

If multi-hit weapons are the reason for the nerf, then the most reasonable solution would be to simply have BW only activate on the first swing of multi-hit weapons, however BW should still stack with Double Attack, Triple Attack, and Quad Attack. I'm not a dark but as a pld i can relate to drks when SE decided to delete the Atonement ws.

Daniel_Hatcher

11-06-2011, 11:25 PM

It is in the sense it's crap like most 2-hours.

Camiie

11-06-2011, 11:42 PM

Nah.

The Devs very clearly designed the game with the concept of switching jobs to suit your situation in mind. There is no "I want to come Summoner to everything" for them. It's, "What jobs work best here? Okay, go switch to them."

One problem with this though is they will stick gear for a certain job in an event where that job is not useful or welcome. I know SMN is probably an extreme example, but hell if anyone wanted my SMN for Dynamis or Salvage where a great deal of a SMN's most useful gear came from.

Maybe it's fine for you, but leveling 2 or 3 jobs to level cap just to gear the one you really love isn't necessarily fun for everyone. You remember fun right? Especially since once you level those other jobs you more than likely won't be getting to play your actual favorite anymore through any high-end content. You can play dress up in the MH, but I'm pretty sure that's not what most people have in mind when it comes to gearing their favorite job. That's been the history of FFXI as I have seen it. Yes, things have improved in that regard with newer events, and I hope they continue to do so.

But any future events need to be more inclusive of various jobs, not exclusive. Does it really make people happy when certain jobs are deemed "lol?" Wait.. don't answer that, it probably does. Would it really upset anyone if DRK was brought up to par and became interchangeable in its own unique way with other DDs?

Alhanelem

11-07-2011, 01:01 AM

The real elite players on there don't ostracize jobs for the sake of ostracizing jobs.Yet you seem to find it to be perfectly fine that <insert unpopular job here> isn't judged to be viable for all but one or two special cases.

It is absolutely worthless to me because I choose not to assign value to those things that it is good at.This is a problem, though apparently you don't seem to feel it is. If you don't feel you can "assign value" to things something is "good" at, then it needs to be adjusted until you CAN assign some value to it. Pet jobs in general are not meant to be just a solo crutch for less-than-pros or people who have no friends. If you can't find something relevant to you that a job is good at, then either something needs to be added which it IS good at, or the job needs to be adjusted until it IS good at something.

One problem with this though is they will stick gear for a certain job in an event where that job is not useful or welcome.I really agree with this. I find it to be common that a player wants to earn gear for a job ON that job. After all, if there is a reward for <job> in a particular fight or event, it stands to reason that the particular job should be able to be effective in order to obtain it. In general, the player isn't going to be happy if they find that everyone demands that they level up <insert other job here> in order to obtain gear for the job they're best at, only to not be able to use it again in the next time this situation comes up...
The way your post comes across doesn't do much to alter my perception of this "percieved" community. While you do have a more level head than much of the community you seem to be trying to represent, and i often agree with some things you say, it amazes me that you still find no problem of balance here.

Nynja

11-07-2011, 01:08 AM

I know SMN is probably an extreme example, but hell if anyone wanted my SMN for Dynamis or Salvage where a great deal of a SMN's most useful gear came from.

what?
Dynamis I agree with, as their AF2 is the best all around AF2 in the game...Salvage?

Greatguardian

11-07-2011, 01:58 AM

I guess all of those years that we had people come White Mage to sky, sea, and Limbus we were doing it wrong, because White Mage doesn't get anything of value from any of those zones.

Everyone should have just showed up PLD, DRK, and THF whenever we did Apollyon so that they could earn their Homam on the jobs that could use it.

Christ, the fallacy is strong with these ones. You don't want Everyone to be able to get gear on the job that uses it, you want Pet Jobs or You, personally to be able to get gear on the job that uses it. You know damn well that if everyone tried to do that, the game would implode because that's simply not how any of this was designed. You don't show up Summoner to try and get Summoner equipment. You kill things, and then you change jobs in your Mog House when you want to equip the gear you just got.

I'm really starting to get tired of this "We are forced to level these jobs" trope that people keep throwing around. I know damn well that it existed years ago, but I don't see any shells worth a damn doing it now. Of course, plenty of mid-tier "I think I'm way cooler than I really am" type linkshells still have crap like that, but it will absolutely always be the case that the nuveau riche are a few years behind the real elite in terms of style.

People shouldn't need to tell you to go level Ninja if you want to farm Empyreans. You have a conscious choice between doing things quickly, and doing things poorly/slowly. If you want to make things harder on yourself and those who are there with you, none of us are going to stop you - just sit back and wonder if your playing Summoner is worth wasting so much of your friends time.

Alhanelem

11-07-2011, 02:00 AM

You have a conscious choice between doing things quickly, and doing things poorly/slowly.If "doing things quickly vs doing things slowly" is a matter of picking Ninja over any of the 19 other jobs, then there is a balance problem in the game. Period.

(Even though it's really a total load of crap, and if I could just get someone with time to help farm up the pops, I could brew all my azdaja tusks in a day. I'm certainly not going to get those vacant bugard eyes fast on ninja. I did most of my sedna tusks in one shot, no ninja involved. Ninja certainly doesn't help any pre-abyssea trial go any faster either)

Greatguardian

11-07-2011, 02:04 AM

If "doing things quickly vs doing things slowly" is a matter of picking Ninja over any of the 19 other jobs, then there is a balance problem in the game. Period.

Herp derp Ninja applies to everything.

It's as if people really do intentionally ignore the vast majority of FFXI's content any time it suits them.

Edit: OH LOOK, A CHALLENGER APPEARS. YES, THERE ARE THINGS YOU SHOULD NOT BE ON NINJA FOR. HOLEE MOLEE, I THINK YOU MADE MY POINT FOR ME.

Alhanelem

11-07-2011, 02:09 AM

Herp derp Ninja applies to everything.

It's as if people really do intentionally ignore the vast majority of FFXI's content any time it suits them.

Edit: OH LOOK, A CHALLENGER APPEARS. YES, THERE ARE THINGS YOU SHOULD NOT BE ON NINJA FOR. HOLEE MOLEE, I THINK YOU MADE MY POINT FOR ME.
If what you mean is different from what you say, then you should try saying something else, because you obviously aren't saying what you really mean if my response elicits a post like this.

Most people aren't choosing between getting something done faster and getting it done slower. Most people are choosing between getting it done at all and not getting it done.

another edit:
just sit back and wonder if your playing Summoner is worth wasting so much of your friends time.The fact you consider playing summoner to be wasting other peoples time is a problem in of itself. This has been covered numerous times. If you don't think this is a problem, then you're just plain wrong. it IS a problem. Of course, I'm only naming jobs here because you did. I was speaking generally in my previous posts.

Greatguardian

11-07-2011, 02:28 AM

If what you mean is different from what you say, then you should try saying something else, because you obviously aren't saying what you really mean if my response elicits a post like this.

Most people aren't choosing between getting something done faster and getting it done slower. Most people are choosing between getting it done at all and not getting it done.

another edit: The fact you consider playing summoner to be wasting other peoples time is a problem in of itself. This has been covered numerous times. If you don't think this is a problem, then you're just plain wrong. it IS a problem. Of course, I'm only naming jobs here because you did. I was speaking generally in my previous posts.

Christ, I'm going to have to be incredibly specific every time I post then. It's not like I've stated 500,000 times on these boards that varying situations call for varying jobs. You're the one who seems to infer that Ninja or Monk can apply to everything in the game, which is just plain wrong.

Ninja is what you generally want to use if you're building Empyrean weapons, because it has red procs. That is the context it was brought up in. If cleaving is faster? Go cleave, screw Ninja. Summoner was also brought up in that same context, farming Empyrean weapons. If you're using a Summoner instead of Red procs, you're slowing everyone down by a huge margin. Point out where any of this starts sounding ridiculous, please.

I am talking single contexts where certain jobs are better than others. You are trying to extrapolate that context to the entire game and then say that it's unbalanced that the context encompasses the entire game. Do you see how you just might be being a little dense about this?

Using Ninja where a Summoner would be better is retarded. Using Summoner where a Ninja would be better is retarded. If you want to be retarded, no one is going to stop you. We're just going to wonder how you sleep at night dragging your friends out to help you with shit that takes 5 times longer than it should because you're being selfish and stubborn.

If you can't farm Briareus at all on Summoner, maybe that's because you don't have friends that are willing to be taken advantage of to such a degree and dammit, good for them.

Darkwizardzin

11-07-2011, 02:47 AM

I think people should take a deep breath, step back, and wait until the new 2hrs/old 2hr merits come out. There isn't much of a point complaining about this until then because SE isn't just going to work on this kind of thing atm (right now they are working on the relic +1 stuff and ect.).

Malamasala

11-07-2011, 03:33 AM

If a job has a problem, that problem should be fixed. The solution to that problem shouldn't be "play a job that doesn't suck as bad."

Funny how that has been my argument for 10 years on spirits, but nobody ever supported me on that. But you seem to have no problems thinking these ways about other content.

what?
Dynamis I agree with, as their AF2 is the best all around AF2 in the game...Salvage?

I think someone is insane because Salvage has the worst drops for SMN. I don't think they had anything except the occasional summoning skill that was even related to SMN.

Camiie

11-07-2011, 03:47 AM

what?
Dynamis I agree with, as their AF2 is the best all around AF2 in the game...Salvage?

Yes some of the Marduk set was useful for SMN. The comment you bolded was meant to refer to both Dynamis and Salvage.

Camiie

11-07-2011, 03:51 AM

I think someone is insane because Salvage has the worst drops for SMN. I don't think they had anything except the occasional summoning skill that was even related to SMN.

I'm the one you're referring to as insane. Not sure why you want to resort to name calling, but whatever. Don't know what I ever did to you.

Reiterpallasch

11-07-2011, 04:09 AM

ITT: Bad players that are bad at the game because they're bad think that one job being better than another at one facet of the game, suddenly makes that one job overpowered and all the others suck.

Every job is generally better at another for any given situation. In a game where we have 20 different choices, you can not make everything perfectly balanced to where they're all equally useful. What exactly would be the point in having 20 jobs then if they were all the same, with no strengths or weaknesses that set them apart from others...?

Luckily for all the bad players out there, you can change to a different job that actually is useful, so that you can get better gear for that your job that (get this) is likely going to be better suited towards another event.

So, SCH solod Shinryu and you can't? Who gives a flying @#$%? God forbid a job that hasn't been useful for a while is able to solo old content on the test server.

Camiie

11-07-2011, 04:46 AM

Every job is generally better at another for any given situation. In a game where we have 20 different choices, you can not make everything perfectly balanced to where they're all equally useful. What exactly would be the point in having 20 jobs then if they were all the same, with no strengths or weaknesses that set them apart from others...?

They don't have to be the same... This is what people don't get. They can play very differently and still end up being similarly effective. Maybe not exactly the same, but close enough where you don't feel you're gimping your party by bringing one job over the other. That's balance.

SNK

11-07-2011, 05:20 AM

If "doing things quickly vs doing things slowly" is a matter of picking Ninja over any of the 19 other jobs, then there is a balance problem in the game. Period.

Holy bananas it looks like you finally get it.

Cljader1

11-07-2011, 05:48 AM

With all the 2-hour abilities among the jobs, drk has a pretty bad one, a 2hr is surpose to save your ass and bloodweapon is not enough...I really like blood weapon but I just think it should be a regular Job Ability on a 15 min timer. Now I admit bloodweapon, souleater kraken club combo is very strong but there can be ways around this to increase drk's 2hr ability and reduce the effectiveness of the BW, SE kraken club madness.

Alhanelem

11-07-2011, 07:38 AM

Every job is generally better at another for any given situation. In a game where we have 20 different choices, you can not make everything perfectly balanced to where they're all equally useful.It's fine for different jobs to be better at different fights. I don't dispute that. However, they CAN TOO make everything well balanced (not perfectly, that's expecting too much) such that each job has value at something within the game- not all at the same time, but for different things. I do not nor would I suggest that they attempt to make it so any combination of the 20 jobs can clear everything with the same difficulty and/or speed- only that each job has meaningful fights in the game that they are capable of shining in. Especially in major content events that consist of a large number of battles / NMs / etc, across all of them, each job should be acceptable by the playerbase for one or more of the individual fights. The seal/crest/empty BCNM system is about the only content area of the game that really achieves this right now, though a large amount of its content is no longer relevant to the playerbase at large.

As an example-
A handful of BCNMs have charmable monsters in them, making BST an excellent choice for them
A handful of BCNMs are easily cleared by a single summoner even though more players are allowed.
A handful of BCNMs and BCNM-like fights are built to adapt to whatever job the player happens to be using.
A handful of BCNMs cater to jobs whose method of attack is spike damage/nuking.
A handful of BCNMs cater to jobs whose method of attack is damage over time.

I would argue that abyssea comes next closest to achieving a variety of content that different jobs excel in, but the difficulty of abyssea is for the most part pretty low, and the current bandwagon jobs can dominate a lot of fights that might have been meant to be cleared ideally with other jobs.

Voidwatch achieves a semblance of job balance, but it's extremely forced- different jobs are brought not for their battle capabilities, but purely to improve the odds of procing for more treasure.

TL;DR: Major content arcs are capable of having a variety of content which in turn can allow a variety of jobs to shine. There should not be any "useless" jobs, nor should there be any jobs that can completely dominate the entirety of the content.

Holy bananas it looks like you finally get it. I've been preaching that for a while now, but at least this means other people get it as well. There is absolutely a balance problem in the game if players are expected to only use one of a few jobs to clear almost everything in the game in a reasonable timeframe.

Greatguardian

11-07-2011, 08:24 AM

Mizuharu

11-07-2011, 09:01 AM

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/2904/1299310987619.gif

About sums up how I feel after reading 5 pages of this.

Lesson learned; I'll never go to a DRK thread again.

Alhanelem

11-07-2011, 09:38 AM

ITT: Some guy still honestly believes that there is a single job that dominates the entirety of content, and a corresponding useless job that has no use at all in the entirety of content.

You're strawmanning, son. Instead of actually responding to what those of us here are saying, you're applying ideas, views, and actions to this arbitrary "Elite Community" and then arguing with those ideas.Can you get any more hypocritical?

You're the one that's telling people who play PUP and SMN they need to play the popular jobs, and then you would have us believe that there isn't a minority of the jobs (It's not actually one, but a few) dominating the majority of content?

I am not straw-manning. Do you really even know what that is? I have responded to what you are saying with reasonable argument. In your responses, you twist what I said into a ridiculous extreme. I never said there was just one "useless job that has no use in any content whatsoever" nor that there was really only one job that dominated absolutely all content. YOU, yes YOU were the one who gave the bizarre absolute. YOU said "ninja" and suggested that doing things fast vs. doing things slow is a matter of picking one job vs picking any of the others. My recations are based on what YOU have said, and now you are backpedaling from that.

SpankWustler

11-07-2011, 09:49 AM

Urteil Posts about Dark Knight VI: The Unhappying - A less-than-harrowing tale of a young man lamenting the state of his Dark Knight that will make young and old alike want to just post a Friendship is Magic meme or something and quickly forget such a topic ever exists. Two stars, because the poorly scripted and rehashed plot is acted out very passionately by the lead.

I would argue that abyssea comes next closest to achieving a variety of content that different jobs excel in, but the difficulty of abyssea is for the most part pretty low, and the current bandwagon jobs can dominate a lot of fights that might have been meant to be cleared ideally with other jobs.

Voidwatch achieves a semblance of job balance, but it's extremely forced- different jobs are brought not for their battle capabilities, but purely to improve the odds of procing for more treasure.

You're missing the forest for the trees. If you look at Abyssea and Voidwatch together, you'll notice an almost completely different selection of jobs excels in the former compared to the latter and vice versa. While jobs are not infallibly balanced at the moment, I'd say it's better than it has ever been in the past due to the two extremes of Abyssea and Voidwatch.

In closing, here is a picture of a puppy dressed as a bumblebee to add some semblance of mirth to this thread.
http://hollywoodhatesme.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/bee-dog.jpg?w=300&h=199

Kimble

11-07-2011, 09:56 AM

Can you get any more hypocritical?

You're the one that's telling people who play PUP and SMN they need to play the popular jobs, and then you would have us believe that there isn't a minority of the jobs (It's not actually one, but a few) dominating the majority of content?

No, I believe he is telling people they should play the right job in the right situations.

There is no way to make an event that will make use of all 20 jobs sadly. Thats why they give us the power to change jobs without penalty.

Urteil

11-07-2011, 10:02 AM

No idea what most of you guys are talking about. This thread is specifically and only about how Blood Weapon sucks in duration and is very lackluster, lots of 2hrs have this problem but I was specifically talking about BW.

If you feel another one sucks go make another thread.

DRK is useful in lots of places, you're all the emo ones, but Blood Weapon sucks make it last 2 minutes or at least the entire duration of souleater.

Alhanelem

11-07-2011, 10:05 AM

You're missing the forest for the trees. If you look at Abyssea and Voidwatch together, you'll notice an almost completely different selection of jobs excels in the former compared to the latter and vice versa.It's perfectly fair to say different jobs excel in voidwatch than Abyssea- that doesn't change the fact that job variation is forced by the proc system more than it is encouraged by the nature of the battle itself.

I in fact agree that job balance is better than it has been in the past, though it's not a whole lot to do with those two events themselves.

No idea what most of you guys are talking about.We're largely talking about a tangent that the thread went off on.

I'm pretty sure most people agree that BW is a sub-par 2-hour. However, all jobs are getting a new 2-hour soon. For now, I would just hold out hope that the new one is better.

Nynja

11-07-2011, 11:24 AM

Yes some of the Marduk set was useful for SMN. The comment you bolded was meant to refer to both Dynamis and Salvage.

Marduk's Crackows 75 [Feet] All Races
DEF:20 MP+3% MND+10 Enfeebling magic skill +5 String instrument skill +5 Summoning magic skill +5 Enmity-4 Set: Enhances "Fast Cast" effect
LV 75 WHM BRD SMN

Nashira came out WAY before and had the summoning skill +5, and if you were ghetto and didnt have sea, I guess that extra +2 summoning skill over the 40k Aurore boots is really game breaking.
---

Marduk's Dastanas 75 [Hands] All Races
DEF:20 MP+2% MND+6 CHR+6 Adds "Regen" effect Enmity-4 Set: Enhances "Fast Cast" effect
LV 75 WHM BRD SMN

Nothing here is remotely useful, other than a regen idle piece.
---
Marduk's Jubbah 75 [Body] All Races
DEF:40 HP+3% MP+3% MND+12 CHR+12 Enhances "Fast Cast" effect Adds "Refresh" effect Set: Enhances "Fast Cast" effect
LV 75 WHM BRD SMN

SMN allready had access to plenty of refresh bodies...hurray fast cast?
---
Marduk's Shalwar 75 [Legs] All Races
DEF:32 MP+3% CHR+10 Healing magic skill +5 Wind instrument skill +5 Summoning magic skill +5 Enmity-4 Set: Enhances "Fast Cast" effect
LV 75 WHM BRD SMN

My mind is hazy on what came out first between ZNM and salvage...though my friends think it was salvage...anyways this offers another +2 smn skill over a pair of cheap austere slops. Once again, not game breaking, and were then obsoleted for smn to the Oracle Braconi with a similar skill+5.

---

Marduk's Tiara 75 [Head] All Races
DEF:17 MP+4% MND+3 CHR+3 Divine magic skill +7 Singing skill +7 Summoning magic skill +7 Enmity-3 Set: Enhances "Fast Cast" effect
LV 75 WHM BRD SMN

Skill+7...yet another mere +2 skill over AF1 head.

so this wonderful gear, that you're dubbing "most useful" offered a mere skill+6 over what was available at the time, which amounts to a 1-3 extra seconds of ward duration and an extra 6 MP when siphoning.

Camiie

11-07-2011, 11:57 AM

so this wonderful gear, that you're dubbing "most useful" offered a mere skill+6 over what was available at the time, which amounts to a 1-3 extra seconds of ward duration and an extra 6 MP when siphoning.

Seems odd to be so stuck on the point that there was something useful to SMN in Salvage. Maybe you don't think any of it was worth having for your SMN. Maybe I thought a few points here and there along with the MP was useful to mine. Maybe most stuff back then was side grades or minor upgrades.

I still don't see the point of harping on it. Shall I rephrase it for you? Ok, here, see if this meets your approval because lord knows I sure want to make sure I get it.

SMN was considered useless in Salvage, an event that contained gear a SMN may want to obtain for some sidegrades or a few minor upgrades.

Happy now? Geez... I sure hope so...

Alhanelem

11-07-2011, 12:24 PM

Seems odd to be so stuck on the point that there was something useful to SMN in Salvage. Not useLESS, but not especially useful either. And salvage offers a lot of work for such a marginal gain over existing summon magic skill pieces.

Wait, what was this thread about again?

Oh.

Leonlionheart

11-07-2011, 01:40 PM

Alhanelem

11-07-2011, 01:45 PM

Aren't two hours kind of niceties and not something you should hinge your strategy on?

The only situations where you focus your strategy on using your two hour is ye olde time zergs. In which case BW is among the best.

I don't care about two hours enough to really want the dev team to work on them over new abilities that would actually fix jobs.news for you: They're already working on 20 new abilities, all of them 2-hours.

The thing with BW is if you're using a 2H weapon, you attack too slow to get much out of it. The duration is just too short. Just changing the duration would already make it significantly better.

Nynja

11-07-2011, 03:27 PM

SMN was considered useless in Salvage, an event that contained gear a SMN may want to obtain for some sidegrades or a few minor upgrades.

Happy now? Geez... I sure hope so...

all mages in salvage need magic to be useful...smn to be useful needed abil (which means another melee is being useless untill it drops) or SJ (backup cure) to justify their existance...

Nynja

11-07-2011, 03:28 PM

The thing with BW is if you're using a 2H weapon, you attack too slow to get much out of it. The duration is just too short. Just changing the duration would already make it significantly better.

Hasso, Desperate Blows + Last Resort, March/march, haste...seems like you attack just fine.

Nynja

11-07-2011, 03:44 PM

you're all the emo ones

are you serious bro?

1-This thread
2- http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/16700-Dark-Knight-Fixes-Ever-going-to-happen
3- http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11543-JOB-ADJUSTMENT-MANIFESTO-SUGGETIONS-ARE-AWFUL-PETITION
4- http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12405-Official-Developer-Feedback-Forum
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12405-Official-Developer-Feedback-Forum
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11301-Dark-Knight-Magic
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11402-DEV-When-was-the-last-REAL-DRK-update-DEV
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11306-Fixes-to-Weapon-Bash
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/10874-Can-we-make-Diabolic-Eye-not-suck
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/10789-Absorb-Buff-and-Dark-Celerity
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/6126-Dark-Knight-and-Magic
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/5018-Dark-Knight-and-the-Dev-Team
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/3503-New-Job-Dark-Knight
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/442-Help.

What do all these threads have in common?
They were started by you, bitching about how drk sucks, how SE ignores drks because they love their bleeding hearts, and what YOU think would be proper fixes.

I tried to find a thread that you started that DOESNT pertain to how drk sucks and needs to be fixed...I couldnt find one.

Cljader1

11-07-2011, 04:42 PM

Hasso, Desperate Blows + Last Resort, March/march, haste...seems like you attack just fine.

What are you talking about?? so to get those buff's mainly you'll announce to your party that you'll about too bloodweapon please march and haste me...thats idiotic, the reason why your even blood weaponing is because either you are about to die or the party going to shit, the bard or whm dont have time to march and haste you for a 30 sec blood weapon, your not even a priority...nor should you be.

Nynja

11-07-2011, 04:46 PM

What are you talking about?? so to get those buff's mainly you'll announce to your party that you'll about too bloodweapon please march and haste me...thats idiotic, the reason why your even blood weaponing is because either you are about to die or the party going to shit, the bard or whm dont have time to march and haste you for a 30 sec blood weapon, your not even a priority...nor should you be.

If you're in a party and your mage cant cast fking haste on you, your party was doomed well before you needed to 2hr...

Cljader1

11-07-2011, 04:49 PM

are you serious bro?

1-This thread
2- http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/16700-Dark-Knight-Fixes-Ever-going-to-happen
3- http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11543-JOB-ADJUSTMENT-MANIFESTO-SUGGETIONS-ARE-AWFUL-PETITION
4- http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12405-Official-Developer-Feedback-Forum
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/12405-Official-Developer-Feedback-Forum
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11301-Dark-Knight-Magic
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11402-DEV-When-was-the-last-REAL-DRK-update-DEV
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/11306-Fixes-to-Weapon-Bash
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/10874-Can-we-make-Diabolic-Eye-not-suck
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/10789-Absorb-Buff-and-Dark-Celerity
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/6126-Dark-Knight-and-Magic
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/5018-Dark-Knight-and-the-Dev-Team
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/3503-New-Job-Dark-Knight
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/442-Help.

What do all these threads have in common?
They were started by you, bitching about how drk sucks, how SE ignores drks because they love their bleeding hearts, and what YOU think would be proper fixes.

I tried to find a thread that you started that DOESNT pertain to how drk sucks and needs to be fixed...I couldnt find one.

I fail to see what you offer to this thread, actually you offer nothing but constant derails if you dont like this thread or other threads like it then gtfo, we can do without your derails, half the time most of us dont even know what you are talking about and why you are even posting in this thread

Nynja

11-07-2011, 04:59 PM

half the time most of us dont even know what you are talking about and why you are even posting in this thread

Perhaps you should wipe the tears from your eyes and learn to read...
I dont know what part of "Urteil should level a second job so they can stop posting about how drk sucks" followed up by him going "emo?no u, stfu"" and then me listing every damn thread he's started in the drk forums exemplifying that all he does is create threads about how he thinks drk sucks is so hard to comprehend.

Cljader1

11-07-2011, 05:07 PM

Zarabeth

11-07-2011, 05:09 PM

I find it amusing that the OP mentions chainspell when SE has made RDM fairly useless now. They've given away all the stuff that made rdm unique while not giving us anything to compensate for the losses. As to BW I'm a DRK also (as well as RDM, WHM, THF, SMN, NIN) and I completely agree it needs an overhaul.

Darkwizardzin

11-07-2011, 05:16 PM

Perhaps you should wipe the tears from your eyes and learn to read...
I dont know what part of "Urteil should level a second job so they can stop posting about how drk sucks" followed up by him going "emo?no u, stfu"" and then me listing every damn thread he's started in the drk forums exemplifying that all he does is create threads about how he thinks drk sucks is so hard to comprehend.

.........

Urteil has every right to post what he feels about the job he loves to play... just like you have every right to say that it's your opinion that Urteil should level another job instead of whining about the one he always plays.

I'm siding with Cljader here if you don't like Urteil's posts then ignore them. Unless you somehow think that by posting your opinion your going to change how he feels... there is no point in even posting to begin with.

The reason Urteil posts this so much is because he feels that if he speaks out loud enough SE might listen. That being said... why do you feel the need to post your opinion about this? (I'm not trolling I'm really asking this question) because I don't see the point (Urteil isn't going to change because of it).

Cljader1

11-07-2011, 05:28 PM

Another thing Blood Weapon is 100% useless against undead mobs, thats ridiculous! On a whole super family of mobs drk cannot use its 2hr or system of drain spells and dreadspikes, I'm just amazed at the limitations placed on drk overall.

Alhanelem

11-07-2011, 05:45 PM

I fail to see what you offer to this thread, actually you offer nothing but constant derails if you dont like this thread or other threads like it then gtfo, we can do without your derails, half the time most of us dont even know what you are talking about and why you are even posting in this thread

It might be a 'derail' but he has a valid point. All you post is "make this or that about DRK not suck."

The job is not as horribly flawed as you're making it out to be. There are a variety of things they can do to improve it, but come on, even I am positive once in a while. Try out another job just for kicks, it will help give you some perspective on the situation.

Cljader1

11-07-2011, 05:48 PM

It might be a 'derail' but he has a valid point. All you post is "make this or that about DRK not suck."

Yep your right and I'm on topic

Daniel_Hatcher

11-07-2011, 06:06 PM

What are you talking about?? so to get those buff's mainly you'll announce to your party that you'll about too bloodweapon please march and haste me...thats idiotic, the reason why your even blood weaponing is because either you are about to die or the party going to shit, the bard or whm dont have time to march and haste you for a 30 sec blood weapon, your not even a priority...nor should you be.

Erm... As someone else said. It's the WHM's job to get Haste on at all times when engaged, and what's the point of having a BRD if to not do March?

Arcon

11-07-2011, 07:44 PM

Yep your right and I'm on topic

"On topic" doesn't mean it's good or productive. Attacking an author's credibility actually does serve a purpose, namely pointing out the lack of their objective judgment, which is applicable every time an issue is one of opinion, instead one of logic, which is the case here. There are no dislike buttons, and it's pointless arguing against an opinion, so the best thing to do if you disagree is to actually point out the bias of the author, so that the people reading it don't get mislead by their propaganda (especially SE). So in that case, yes, what Nynja said is on topic.

Leonlionheart

11-07-2011, 08:05 PM

news for you: They're already working on 20 new abilities, all of them 2-hours.

I know, and I'm quite displeased.

The thing with BW is if you're using a 2H weapon, you attack too slow to get much out of it. The duration is just too short. Just changing the duration would already make it significantly better.

Here's a tidbit:
513 delay (Apoc) minimum time per attack round: 1.71 seconds
Monk95 delay (vere) minimum time per attack round (Not 100 fists, true delay reduction cap): 1.77 seconds

Just thought you should know

Also, 100 fists sucks. That's actually something over 2s? per attack round

So I guess you guys are right, if you're only taking it in context of solo. But then in that case WAR's 2hour sucks, WHM's 2hour sucks, RNG's 2hour sucks (well it sucks in parties too) NIN's 2hour sucks, BRD's 2hour sucks, etc.

Cljader1

11-07-2011, 09:03 PM

"On topic" doesn't mean it's good or productive. Attacking an author's credibility actually does serve a purpose, namely pointing out the lack of their objective judgment, which is applicable every time an issue is one of opinion, instead one of logic, which is the case here. There are no dislike buttons, and it's pointless arguing against an opinion, so the best thing to do if you disagree is to actually point out the bias of the author, so that the people reading it don't get mislead by their propaganda (especially SE). So in that case, yes, what Nynja said is on topic.

The bias, the bias of what...this is a drk 2hr thread, if you dont like what the topic is about then leave...we wont miss you, whenever it is logic or opinion (either one deosnt matter) drk 2hr is still sorely lacking in performance...hopefully camate can shed a little light on what think developers are thinking about this issue

Camiie

11-07-2011, 09:23 PM

Arcon

11-07-2011, 09:41 PM

The bias, the bias of what...this is a drk 2hr thread, if you dont like what the topic is about then leave...

That's not how the world works. Why should we leave? If someone was painting poo-graffiti on your house, you wouldn't just "go away" and let them do their thing. You would speak up and possibly punch them. Punching, sadly, doesn't work over the internet, so we have to do the next best thing, which is outing you as the biased and ignorant posters you are. SE listening to you would make them waste time on your non-existant problems instead of using it on something that's important to the vast majority. This is our issue as much as it is yours, in fact, you made it ours. Stop telling us to go away, we have a right to be here and protest ideas that will upset us just as much as you have a right to post stupid ideas.

SNK

11-07-2011, 09:50 PM

You offer nothing to the thread please talk about the topic of this thread or just leave...I'm not interested in your derails

I don't see it so much as a derail as he's got a point. :|

P.S. I'm actually in 100% agreement with Alhanelem on this.

Hell hath doth frozen over.

hiko

11-07-2011, 10:50 PM

11-05-2011 01:22 PM=>

If Scholar can solo Shinryuu on the Test server without a brew.

And besides that extreme example we have:

Chainspell
Hundredfists
Meiko-Kill-Everything

How can the dev's even consider Blood Weapon a two hour, and are there any chances to at the very least, extend the duration?

Or something? Damage multiplier. I mean at its best its a 10 minute ability.

Tabula Rasa lasts three minutes now, and I certainly can't go solo him with Blood Weapon.

I suppose the good news is that we can only go up from here because of how absolutley terrible it is.

*Oh and make perfect dodge, dodge ranged attacks, that's stupid.

11-04-2011 08:35 PM

Hello.

Previously, we stated that we are developing something to the effect of “merit point category 3,” and we have an update to share with you all. (As stated in the previous post, this is in an early stage of development)

“Merit Point Category 3” is intended to strengthen two-hour abilities and we are also working toward adding new two-hour abilities (*)
*What are new two-hour abilities?

• We are planning to implement them to the test server in March 2012.
Please look here for a more detailed implementation schedule.
• The new two-hour abilities are scheduled to have completely different effects, rather than enhanced current two-hour ability effects.
• The new two-hour abilities will share the same recast timer with current two-hour abilities and we want players to choose them based on the situation.

Here is a revised order of test server implementation:
1. Raise the level cap to 99
2. Raise the maximum limit for merit points
3. Adjust merit points groups 1 and 2
4. Add new two-hour abilities
5. Add merit points group 3

We will let you know once we finalize all of the details.

2hr update was anounced before your post, you just ask them to fix something they already said they plan to fix

+before including some 2hr as overkilling ones, learn how they work(HF slower a full buffed mnk)

Vold

11-07-2011, 10:58 PM

With all the 2-hour abilities among the jobs, drk has a pretty bad one, a 2hr is surpose to save your ass and bloodweapon is not enough...No. We the players might treat 2 hour abilities as "save our ass" JAs but they're really not. They're 2 hour job abilities. Nothing more or less. And I'll say it again: BW is meant to be used in conjunction with Souleater to do severe damage. It is one of the very best 2 hour JA in the game. It's just not very useful in the hands of the average Joe who chooses not to pick up multi hit weapons for their DRK. Maybe that is enough to say the 2 hr sucks, but I'm a THF and NIN at heart above all else. I don't want to hear it when my 2 hour JAs have been "useless" for 10 years.

Nynja

11-08-2011, 12:33 AM

Urteil has every right to post what he feels about the job he loves to play... just like you have every right to say that it's your opinion that Urteil should level another job instead of whining about the one he always plays.

The reason Urteil posts this so much is because he feels that if he speaks out loud enough SE might listen. That being said... why do you feel the need to post your opinion about this? (I'm not trolling I'm really asking this question) because I don't see the point (Urteil isn't going to change because of it).

Then SE will give another Scarlet Delerium, and he can whine and bitch some more...just like the RDM's got Temper.

Another thing Blood Weapon is 100% useless against undead mobs, thats ridiculous! On a whole super family of mobs drk cannot use its 2hr or system of drain spells and dreadspikes, I'm just amazed at the limitations placed on drk overall.

Because drain stuff never works on undead...its not a cockblocking limitation. Most 2hr's have their own fk you:
Manafont/Chainspell are useless if you're Muted/Silenced without echo drops
Perfect Dodge isnt so perfect to rangers (in fact its basically invincible without the enmity boost, but you can still get shield skillups)
Meiyko Shisui offers nothing if your TP gets wiped after you use it
EES is EES
100 fists can actually get you killed just as fast if the mob you're fighting counters
Spirit Surge isnt so hot since most melee will cap their haste out and the def down on Jump doesnt stack with angon
Wild Card is "plz let me get my 2hr back"
Mijin is just a "dont want to wait 5 min to unweak"

So please...please....

whenever it is logic or opinion (either one deosnt matter) drk 2hr is still sorely lacking in performance...hopefully camate can shed a little light on what think developers are thinking about this issue

See my quote above...

Dfoley

11-08-2011, 12:42 AM

If Scholar can solo Shinryuu on the Test server without a brew.

And besides that extreme example we have:

Chainspell
Hundredfists
Meiko-Kill-Everything

Stopped reading right there, as I knew there wasn't going to be an intelligent post. You realize, that monk with 2x march (maybe even just 1x march with the new mini 2 hr ability) + haste spell has perma 2 hour right? So by definition it is more useless then your DRk 2hr as it literally does nothing from level 75+ while you at least have a gimp effect?

Greatguardian

11-08-2011, 12:47 AM

Oh, we're actually responding to Urteil's DRK ramblings now?

Lol.

Making a thread complaining about a universally crappy set of job abilities that the Devs have already acknowledged were shit and announced that they will be augmenting/fixing/replacing.

Then asserting that Dark Knight is the only job with a shitty 2hr.

The grass is always greener, broski.

Kaych

11-08-2011, 01:23 AM

Maybe its time you level a new job...?

One major problem with FFXI is this seems to be a serious answer to any imbalances.

Thank you Camiie. I completly agree ^_-

Malamasala

11-08-2011, 01:37 AM

I guess this is what SE is doing, but they and we need to ask ourselves "What is a 2-hour ability supposed to be?" Since it's under such a lengthy recast timer shouldn't it be a "broken" ability that has a very good chance of turning a fight around? Not God Mode like a brew, but something that in almost all situations would be very advantageous to yourself and/or your party? The cost being the 2-hour wait to use it again. That's what I expect a 2-hour to be. I'm not sure what the rest of you think. I'd like to hear your thoughts.

I'm still asking myself that over the tavnazia armor drops. So they think haste for some 3 minutes, is so awesome it needs 20 hours recast? They think refresh is so awesome it needs to have limited casts before you have to go find a new armor?

Sometimes it might be better to ask if they think at all, than what they think.

Morgantisthedon

11-08-2011, 06:32 AM

All I can say about this thread is wow. Nobody is ever happy about anything lol. If you noticed they are adding new updates to the future for merriting 2 hours and a second 2 hour ability. Until then we can only speculate. And as for Drk's 2 hour ability I still find uses for it as all 2 hours. (Hence they are not brew like abilities and dont guarantee you a win. Most are very helpful and do sway a fight) My suggestion would be to lower them to more a one hour ability and incoperate the new ones (not on same timer like you plan) as the new 2 hour ability. Because regardless of what players think every 2 hour ability of all jobs has very good use's. Its the format with which you use it and the dynamics of your group and understanding each others play skills. Thus verstile players who understand this know a 2 hour ability isnt the end all be all. After all we will still get players wanting more, which is fine for avid players wanting this or that to rule #1 job. Which will always happen I think true abilities come with being verstile and understanding dynamics of the game your group and your job. Sure we all want 2 hour instant one shot kill abilities. But each job has pros and cons to it same as its 2 hour ability. Understanding that is whats important. All are good and usefull given the right circumastances.

Valonquar

11-08-2011, 06:54 AM

lolDRK.

I can say that because I lived through the early years trying to scrape by as a DRG main.

Then again, for pretty much all of the endgame stuff I do, If I mention having everything leveled, no one EVER says to come as DRK, DRG, or most of the regular melee jobs outside of MNK, WAR, or rarely RNG. If I mention I have BRD or WHM leveled I may as well just stay on them.

Luvbunny

11-08-2011, 08:54 AM

They really need to do overall adjustment on this job, BADLY!!!! It's like they have very little clue on how to do it and keep doing halfway efforts in the past 10 years. Warrior, Sam and Monk are great perfect examples on how to do perfect fine tune on melee jobs. Those three are the best melee DD jobs so far with good useful abilities that sets them apart. Drk on the other hand is like a bastard frankenstein effort to fuse warrior with black mage and the result is neither this or that with a bunch of semi useful abilities and nothing specials on most of their spells. We need new sets of Dark exclusive spells other than absorb and abolish the elemental tier spells (these are pathetic, useless and NOT needed). The existing Dark Spells are good, just need more tweaks. Also for the love of god, give something useful on the AF3 please... Compared to other melee jobs, DRK AF3+1 sets are a bit underwhelming. Lastly just tweak their job abilities and it should be good. Minor updates but yet no one over there seems to even have the capabilities to do it.

Kimble

11-08-2011, 11:00 AM

DRK is like, one of the best DDs in VW. Its right up there with WAR, SAM, MNK, not below it.

Alhanelem

11-08-2011, 12:22 PM

DRK is mostly fine outside of abyssea. In abyssea, it gets trounced because of crit and crit damage dominance.

Greatguardian

11-08-2011, 12:40 PM

DRK is more than fine outside. That's really the worst part about all this whining.

Alhanelem

11-08-2011, 01:49 PM

DRK is more than fine outside. That's really the worst part about all this whining.

There are still things, such as the two hour, as well as other minor stuff, that could use adjustment. It's just not vital to the job's performance.

Hayward

11-08-2011, 01:59 PM

While I agree Blood Weapon needs a twist to it to make it worthwhile again without it being exploited (I also agree with removing the job from the Kraken Club or limiting BW to the 1st hit of a multihit weapon), I can't agree with the argument that Dark Knight is underpowered. There's no logical basis for it. With the tools that a Dark Knight has, I'm shocked the other jobs aren't looking for boosts to match it.

Here's some 2-hour abilities that need a look:

*Blood Weapon (too short for DRKs main weapons to be effective)
*Eagle Eye Shot (doesn't scale properly in terms of damage)
*Overdrive (Overload-prevention gear pretty much obviates this JA as things stand)
*Invincible (Let's have some truth-in-advertising if spells are going to continue to get past this JA)
*Perfect Dodge (see above. Spells I can understand, not so much when it comes to shots)
*Familiar (If Charming's a thing of the past, let's modify this to benefit the jug pets a little more)

Urteil

11-08-2011, 10:00 PM

Urteil

11-08-2011, 10:04 PM

Lol.

Souleater.

You need to go back to elementary school, Souleater doesn't multiply anything.

Sir. . . are you retarded?

Urteil

11-08-2011, 10:05 PM

Morgantisthedon

11-08-2011, 10:16 PM

I'd change if I got any serious opposition other than "shut up." Your arguments hold about as much water as 1ply toilet paper in a public bathroom.

Or if SE was like "Yea DRK is fine, suck it. In a dev response."

Last you'd be hearing from me.

Until then.

Because with things like BLU SAM RDM running around, SAM having plague on weapon Bash, BLU getting Doom and DRK getting Occult Acumen and SD. I'll continue posting about DRK and how little things on it make sense.

But don't worry! I am also aware of the other things in the game that make no sense to on other jobs, PLD not having a staple hate generation move for one, PD not working against bolts, Invincible not working against magic (or at least say this).

However this thread was about blood weapon.

Each job has pro's and cons same with 2 hour its how you work with and understand them ^^ :) Its not a once every 2 hour I get a brew button. Undertsanding each 2 hour abilities limits and capablities is key. As i stated in my post though depending on the new abilites we get as a 2 hour. Some these 2 horu abilities we get should move down to a 1 hour ability and them be our 2 hour not share same timer. Blood weapon specificialy is ok to me not best but has its uses. Same all other job's 2 hours.

Nynja

11-09-2011, 12:21 AM

Nice relic, oh wait.

I never updated my page for when my server got merged cause I stopped carring about ffxiah ranking, try looking at the Nynja on Gilgamesh.

let me help you
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Gilgamesh/Nynja

dumb fk...

Greatguardian

11-09-2011, 12:26 AM

You need to go back to elementary school, Souleater doesn't multiply anything.

Sir. . . are you retarded?

D0 += HP*0.12 = D1

D1 = D0*P where P is the proportion between base damage and HP*0.12

Souleater is a damage multiplier. Blood Weapon makes it a free damage multiplier.

:3

SNK

11-09-2011, 12:59 AM

Nice relic, oh wait.

Wow, way to totally stuff your foot all the way into your mouth...

Cljader1

11-09-2011, 01:15 AM

D0 += HP*0.12 = D1

D1 = D0*P where P is the proportion between base damage and HP*0.12

Souleater is a damage multiplier. Blood Weapon makes it a free damage multiplier.

:3

Soul Eater is not a damage multiplier idiot, it damage is 10% of the drk's maximum HP....where do you come up with bogus information and bogus math????

Yinnyth

11-09-2011, 02:43 AM

Soul Eater is not a damage multiplier idiot, it damage is 10% of the drk's maximum HP....where do you come up with bogus information and bogus math????

It's a % of the drk's current HP, not max HP. The actual % can vary with equipment. Where do you come up with yours?

Souleater + BW used to be the most overpowered combination in the game. With kraken club or (back before haste cap nerf) apoc, drk was far and away the most valuable DD for zerging DLord. It was souleater + BW that conquered AV and forced them to rebalance. Even on lesser stuff, SE+BW got used to solo the later CoP battlefields with mercurial kris. DRK is the only job to be directly nerfed on endgame bosses simply because of the staggering power that SE+BW provides. Lots of 2hrs suck worse than BW does.

That being said, the situations where BW is useful are not as diverse as the situations some 2hrs are useful. It also sort of lacks that "OH CRAP!" usefulness where you can pop it to save the day when something goes wrong. So in that regard, yes, it's weaker than the other heavy DD 2hr. But I'm hoping that's what the second 2hr release will be fixing.

Overall however, I don't think a 2hr tweak is what drk needs most of all right now. I think other areas of the job should be examined first.

Ciecle

11-09-2011, 02:47 AM

Soul Eater is not a damage multiplier idiot, it damage is 10% of the drk's maximum HP....where do you come up with bogus information and bogus math????

Can you come up with an actual mathy formula to rebuttal his claims instead of calling him an idiot please? some people are actually wanting to know the answer since you said his math is bogus...

btw from the wiki...
The Enhances "Souleater" Effect, found on Chaos Burgeonet/(+1), Gloom Breastplate, or Sable Cuisses, adds an additional 2% to the effect, dealing 12% of the Dark Knight's current HP instead of 10%. This enhancement does not stack from multiple pieces.

Arcon

11-09-2011, 02:54 AM

Soul Eater is not a damage multiplier idiot, it damage is 10% of the drk's maximum HP....where do you come up with bogus information and bogus math????

It's an ambiguous definition, since a percentage is always a multiplier (x% of y being y*x/100).

As was pointed out, nothing is broken. In fact, the only DD two-hour ability I know that can actually save a party is Meikyo Shusui (if it manages to kill the mob in that time), and occasionally Spirit Surge. Mighty Strikes also doesn't help much, same as Hundred Fists, and that's because these abilities weren't designed to save a dying party. They were actually designed to be able to prepare for harder fights (although Hundred Fists was all around badly designed). And if you prepare for those fights, Blood Weapon still excels, and not only with a Kraken Club. Even Ridill or Mercurial Kris DRK can put out ridiculous amounts of damage in that time. There simply is nothing to complain about.

Greatguardian

11-09-2011, 04:08 AM

Cljader1

11-09-2011, 04:35 AM

Don't worry. Some people just don't understand basic algebra. When you can define arbitrary variables, it is fairly simple to treat Souleater as a damage multiplier. You simply have to account for the fact that the coefficient is a variable proportional to the DRK's current HP and inversely proportional to the DRK's base damage/hit.

If Base Damage/Swing is 50, and you have 1000 HP, you are doing 170 damage/hit with Souleater+Blood Weapon. That is equivalent to a Damage Multiplier of 340%.

Yup. I'm an idiot.

Edit: For clarity, you are always able to rewrite Y = A+B as Y = A*C as long as you acknowledge that C is a variable based on the ratio between B and A. hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr high school maaaaath

Its just a straight 10% of the drk's current hp thats all....I dont know what type of math your trying to put out but its 10% of drk hp thats it, your formula didnt make sense and soul eater is not a damage multipier but rather a straight 10% of the drk current hp which is convert into damage and with bloodweapon it just augments the hp return

Greatguardian

11-09-2011, 04:45 AM

Its just a straight 10% of the drk's current hp thats all....I dont know what type of math your trying to put out but its 10% of drk hp thats it, your formula didnt make sense and soul eater is not a damage multipier but rather a straight 10% of the drk current hp which is convert into damage and with bloodweapon it just augments the hp return

How old are you? If you're <=16, I'd understand if you just plain haven't taken many math courses and I'll leave you be. Suffice to say, I'm not sure if I can explain it any more simply =/.

Y = Damage dealt with Souleater+BW.
A = Base Damage dealt w/o SE/BW
B = Damaged added from SE/BW = Current HP * 0.12

Standard equation for SE+BW damage is Y = A+B

This can be rewritten as Y = A*C as long as you define C to be:

C = (A+B)/A

Cljader1

11-09-2011, 04:46 AM

If Base Damage/Swing is 50, and you have 1000 HP, you are doing 170 damage/hit with Souleater+Blood Weapon. That is equivalent to a Damage Multiplier of 340%

Your wrong bud, if Base Damage/Swing is 50, and you have 1000 HP, you are doing 150 damage for the FIRST hit and not 170 damage/hit, its just a straight 10% increase to your base damage. Furthermore its 10% of drk's current hp, and bloodweapon will make the damage static because of the hp return of the 2hr

Greatguardian

11-09-2011, 04:48 AM

Your wrong bud, if Base Damage/Swing is 50, and you have 1000 HP, you are doing 150 damage for the FIRST hit and not 170 damage/hit, its just a straight 10% increase to your base damage. Furthermore its 10% of drk's current hp, and bloodweapon will make the damage static because of the hp return of the 2hr

1) We're only talking about Souleater in the context of Blood Weapon, so it is always the same damage per hit.

2) Enhances Souleater gear. It enhances the bonus to 12% of current HP. Why do I know more about DRK than you? Mine's 37.

3) Read my previous post if you still don't understand the math.

Cljader1

11-09-2011, 04:55 AM

How old are you? If you're <=16, I'd understand if you just plain haven't taken many math courses and I'll leave you be. Suffice to say, I'm not sure if I can explain it any more simply =/.

Y = Damage dealt with Souleater+BW.
A = Base Damage dealt w/o SE/BW
B = Damaged added from SE/BW = Current HP * 0.12 Wrong

Standard equation for SE+BW damage is Y = A+B

This can be rewritten as Y = A*C as long as you define C to be:

C = (A+B)/A

First off I'm a college professor, second how many times can I say your wrong its simple, change your value to 10% and then add in a variable that account for the drk's current HP and then your math formula will work. Basically right now, your souleater percentage is wrong and your missing a variable to account for the drks current HP. Get your math right before you try to use it as a argument or talking piont

Greatguardian

11-09-2011, 04:58 AM

First off I'm a college professor, second how many times can I say your wrong its simple, change your value to 10% and then add in a variable that account for the drk's current HP and then your math formula will work. Basically right now, your souleater percentage is wrong and your missing a variable to account for the drks current HP. Get your math right before you try to use it as a argument or talking piont

The Enhances "Souleater" Effect, found on Chaos Burgeonet/(+1), Gloom Breastplate, or Sable Cuisses, adds an additional 2% to the effect, dealing 12% of the Dark Knight's current HP instead of 10%. This enhancement does not stack from multiple pieces.

B also accounts for current HP. B = Current HP * 0.12.

What do you teach?

Cljader1

11-09-2011, 05:05 AM

1) We're only talking about Souleater in the context of Blood Weapon, so it is always the same damage per hit.

2) Enhances Souleater gear. It enhances the bonus to 12% of current HP. Why do I know more about DRK than you? Mine's 37.

3) Read my previous post if you still don't understand the math.

What are you talking about there nothing in you formula that accounts for outliners like gear...how can you give a formula with so many hidden values??? No one can solve a equation with hidden values in the formula, you failed to put any of that in your formula and as result your formula is bogus. Moreover the first formula you put up I believe you did it just to confuse people, however now you trying to clean it up but I'm sorry its still wrong simply based on the formula you have provided

Greatguardian

11-09-2011, 05:09 AM

Jesus Christ.

Is it that hard to understand that Y = A+B can be rewritten as Y = A*C when C = (A+B)/A?

Simplify the second equation and you just get Y = A+B, the only difference is you have a product there instead of a sum. Thus, a multiplier.

Please. Please. Please. Just go by the Math department and ask one of the profs there to run through the equation for you. This is really just getting ridiculous.

Cljader1

11-09-2011, 05:10 AM

B also accounts for current HP. B = Current HP * 0.12.

What do you teach?

Do not worry about it, Im just pionting out your math is wrong, and now your trying the place in all sorts of hidden values to clean up your argument. I have articulated and underlined your formulas and stated why they were off, there not much more to argue

Greatguardian

11-09-2011, 05:15 AM

I think I just got trolled.

God dammit.

Spiritreaver

11-09-2011, 05:50 AM

LOL

That whole back and forth reminds me of when i tried to explain Punnett Squares to a hopeless lab partner in Bio. He never got it either.

SNK

11-09-2011, 09:45 AM

First off I'm a college professor, second how many times can I say your wrong its simple, change your value to 10% and then add in a variable that account for the drk's current HP and then your math formula will work. Basically right now, your souleater percentage is wrong and your missing a variable to account for the drks current HP. Get your math right before you try to use it as a argument or talking piont

It's "you're" professor. Don't sit there and try and pull out your profession when you're making stupid spelling mistakes.

BorkBorkBork

11-09-2011, 11:09 AM

Do not worry about it, Im just pionting out your math is wrong, and now your trying the place in all sorts of hidden values to clean up your argument. I have articulated and underlined your formulas and stated why they were off, there not much more to argue

I'm guessing not an English professor.

TybudX

11-09-2011, 12:13 PM

First off I'm a college professor

There used to be a psychiatrist around here somewhere.

I'm guessing not an English speling professor.

ftfy :D

BorkBorkBork

11-09-2011, 12:29 PM

your right :(

Perhaps a P.E. teacher?

Zeroe

11-09-2011, 02:13 PM

Alright, not everyone can spell correctly, its just human error. This thread was designed to benefit and help improve upon Dark Knight, not slander others. As a community, we should be reflecting ideas on how either improve or adjust the job. Instead were going off topic, either saying the job sucks play a new one, or play a job that's designed for certain circumstances.

The major thing with Dark Knight is yes, were not totally broken. Were totally mediocre.
The things that should be adjusted our are recast timers on drain, a adjustment to Scarlet Delirium, lolzBlood Weapon, and how to make us actually benefit from casting spells.

I'm capped scythe skill, with armor that further enhances the skill, yet I pull a blood weapon, and get something like this:
Miss
Critical Hit! 709 damage
Hit! 330 damage

The blood weapon effect wears off.

Yes, blood weapon has its uses, but its short timer makes it useless. Compared to invincible, its a sick joke. Why drain health, when you can just negate it all together? Were not asking for the moon here, just a few fixes that will allow us to play our job how it was designed, as a "purveyor of pain".

Nynja

11-09-2011, 03:58 PM

Compared to invincible, its a sick joke.

PLD uses invincible at low HP to survive
Mob casts Meteor / death / any TP move that is non physical
PLD dies
Mob: lol

Wow, way to totally stuff your foot all the way into your mouth...

Seems he hasnt posted since lol...

Cljader1

11-09-2011, 04:50 PM

It's "you're" professor. Don't sit there and try and pull out your profession when you're making stupid spelling mistakes.

Nice spelling and grammar attacks on an informal forum bravo to you for correcting me

Cljader1

11-09-2011, 04:58 PM

drk need ad-least a longer duration on blood weapon, every drk dreads a miss while bloodweapon is on, if your lucky you can get 4 solid swings in before it wears off... is that enough to constitute a 2hr ability??

Cljader1

11-09-2011, 05:28 PM

SE said they will be giving the jobs new 2 hrs, what if drk was able to cast "Nightmare" which is a very potent bad breath spell which none of the status effects can be resisted for a 2hr ability. Under the 2hr duration the dark knight has access to the spell "Nightmare" for 30 seconds. That's something that could fit drk, hopefully camate can shed a little light on what they are planning for this job's future.

SNK

11-09-2011, 11:05 PM

Nice spelling and grammar attacks on an informal forum bravo to you for correcting me

If you're going to sit there sir and spout that your math is correct when a few people have explained to you it's wrong then by all means you're going to get called out on it.

Not knocking on your "profession" but if you're going to throw out the "Real Life" card then you should expect to have every angle of that card called.

Cljader1

11-10-2011, 03:27 AM

If you're going to sit there sir and spout that your math is correct when a few people have explained to you it's wrong then by all means you're going to get called out on it.

Not knocking on your "profession" but if you're going to throw out the "Real Life" card then you should expect to have every angle of that card called.

Sorry sir but his math is wrong, I already explained it...and If you knew how to read, he attacked me first calling me a 16 year old that haven't taking a math class, so I rebutted him...if you don't like how I rebutted him that sounds like a you problem.

Arcon

11-10-2011, 03:57 AM

Sorry sir but his math is wrong, I already explained it...and If you knew how to read, he attacked me first calling me a 16 year old that haven't taking a math class, so I rebutted him...if you don't like how I rebutted him that sounds like a you problem.

This is a showcase example of the Dunning-Kruger effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect) in action.

Dirtyfinger

11-10-2011, 04:40 AM

My IQ dropped after reading some of this thread, but then I remembered it was the DRK sub forum.

Yinnyth

11-10-2011, 09:53 AM

Sorry sir but his math is wrong, I already explained it...and If you knew how to read, he attacked me first calling me a 16 year old that haven't taking a math class, so I rebutted him...if you don't like how I rebutted him that sounds like a you problem.

His math is solid. Souleater can be expressed as a damage multiplier on a swing-by-swing basis through some basic algebra hocus-pocus. Granted, the multiplier varies based on the base damage of the swing, the amount of HP the DRK has, and any souleater bonuses/penalties, but this does not change the fact that the math he has presented is correct. Also, to pull a direct quote, he did not call you 16. He said:
How old are you? If you're <=16, I'd understand if you just plain haven't taken many math courses and I'll leave you be. Suffice to say, I'm not sure if I can explain it any more simply =/.He asked your age and then proceeded to explain why he was asking. His reason for asking being he simply can't comprehend why you don't comprehend the concept he's been attempting to explain, and age would be an immediate indication as to why. And for good reason, no less. It simply can't be said enough times, he was correct when he said:
Y = A+B can be rewritten as Y = A*C when C = (A+B)/A

Cljader1

11-10-2011, 11:59 AM

His math is solid. Souleater can be expressed as a damage multiplier on a swing-by-swing basis through some basic algebra hocus-pocus. Granted, the multiplier varies based on the base damage of the swing, the amount of HP the DRK has, and any souleater bonuses/penalties, but this does not change the fact that the math he has presented is correct. Also, to pull a direct quote, he did not call you 16. He said:He asked your age and then proceeded to explain why he was asking. His reason for asking being he simply can't comprehend why you don't comprehend the concept he's been attempting to explain, and age would be an immediate indication as to why. And for good reason, no less. It simply can't be said enough times, he was correct when he said:

But where is the variable that account for gear used to boost soul eater from 10% to 12%, its missing. For people to understand what he is talking about in his formula he needed to add a variable telling everyone that he was boosted souleater damage from 10% to 12% through the usage of gear

Spiritreaver

11-10-2011, 01:20 PM

But where is the variable that account for gear used to boost soul eater from 10% to 12%, its missing. For people to understand what he is talking about in his formula he needed to add a variable telling everyone that he was boosted souleater damage from 10% to 12% through the usage of gear

You are just being deliberately ignorant now.

ANY DRK worth his/her salt knows that base Souleater is 10% and that it becomes 12% with AF/AF+1 head. He shouldn't have to even bother saying that because its a given that EVERYONE at least has the AF head and uses it when they pop Souleater.

Come on ...:rolleyes:

Ciecle

11-10-2011, 03:26 PM

Maybe... Cljader1 didn't catch my quote... and it's from FFXIclopedia too :<...

But just in case, I have to quote it again just to make sure the logic goes through... cause Spiritreaver is right...

ANY DRK worth his/her salt knows that base Souleater is 10% and that it becomes 12% with AF/AF+1 head.

The Enhances "Souleater" Effect, found on Chaos Burgeonet/(+1), Gloom Breastplate, or Sable Cuisses, adds an additional 2% to the effect, dealing 12% of the Dark Knight's current HP instead of 10%. This enhancement does not stack from multiple pieces.

SNK

11-10-2011, 04:12 PM

Cljader1

11-11-2011, 04:48 AM

Quoted for emphasis. Is this sinking into you yet professor?

Some of you guys are idiots, no gear mention was in his formula so that makes it is bogus, bottom line....and you clowns have hijacked the thread long enough talk about drk blood weapon or just gtfo, last time ill address you clowns and your details if some of you clowns cant form a basic formula right no wonder your trapped in the box of a video game lol.

Moink

11-11-2011, 05:43 AM

You're right, Cljader1, it wasn't initially mentioned that the additional 2% wasn't explained in the math formula. It has, however, been implemented and explained in detail enough that if you haven't grasped that understanding then maybe you should go back to basic algebra... Then again I have a feeling you're just being a troll coming up with poor excuses to not understand such simple math.

Yinnyth

11-11-2011, 07:11 AM

Some of you guys are idiots, no gear mention was in his formula so that makes it is bogus, bottom line....and you clowns have hijacked the thread long enough talk about drk blood weapon or just gtfo, last time ill address you clowns and your details if some of you clowns cant form a basic formula right no wonder your trapped in the box of a video game lol.

He also didn't mention whether or not drk was a main job or a support job when providing formulas for how souleater damage works. If SE is used while drk is your SJ, it's only 5% of your HP added to the damage(though 10% is still taken from you). He also didn't factor any souleater resists... you know, in case it's souleater against AV. Since none of that was mentioned, clearly his math is bogus.

If someone arrives at a correct answer, yet does not show their work, this does not mean their answer is instantly invalidated. Particularly if they later go back and correct the issue you had/have grievances with and actually show where they got the questionable values from. Yes, that's right, he actually went back and told you where he got the 12% from, but for some reason, the fact that gear wasn't mentioned in his first post means that his statement is completely false? Let's re-examine it:

Y = Damage dealt with Souleater+BW.
A = Base Damage dealt w/o SE/BW
B = Damaged added from SE/BW = Current HP * 0.12

Standard equation for SE+BW damage is Y = A+B

This can be rewritten as Y = A*C as long as you define C to be:

C = (A+B)/A
Aside from the typo where he added a "d", I see no faults in his equation assuming that DRK is your main job and is wearing a piece of gear which enhances souleater. Incomplete? Well, yeah, unless he gets the full formula from the servers, his equation will never factor all possibilities into it. However, the assumption of DRK main and souleater enhancing gear was perfectly clear to everyone reading his post except for you. Then instead of admitting your brief moment of ignorance, you've doubled down by saying his failure to mention the gear invalidates every point he has raised. Then after him mentioning the gear which enhances souleater to 12% of HP, he's too late and the damage is already done; his formula is permanently bogus.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you're stupid. Hell, you're probably a relatively intelligent person, but even the smartest people make mistakes. However, it's important to admit the mistake so we don't go around promoting ignorance. If the person who is in the wrong refuses to admit it, it is up to the community to make sure the fallacy is properly dismissed before someone else gets the wrong idea.

Dart

11-11-2011, 09:31 AM

posting in a mildly entertaining thread

Nynja

11-12-2011, 12:32 AM

Why would you use souleater not in conjunction with any of the bonus pieces?

Dart

11-12-2011, 05:14 AM

no clue, i use the leg slot enhances SE gear in my SC. Not like its hard to do. (And i Suck at writing SC)

Spiritreaver

11-13-2011, 04:18 AM

Urteil

11-13-2011, 07:58 PM

I wasn't aware there were people who had no idea how souleater works.

There's like two pieces in the game that affect it, pretty easy stuff.

Dart

11-14-2011, 02:48 AM

3 that I know of, a body, leg, and head piece

Rezeak

11-14-2011, 05:08 AM

While i can agree Blood weapon could fit a 10-20 min ja now.

Tho imo i feel again the way DRKs say "ooo blood weapon is the worst 2hr in the game ect" just says /emo or i don't know how to use Blood weapon.

Blood weapon is still a really good 2hr infact it's prolly the second strongest in the game still (w/ capped haste)
(strongest in some cases)
And Hundred fist is the most useless 2hr in the game (w/ capped haste)

The issue w/ blood weapon is the duration and need for so many other buffs meaning it's hard to use.

The fix imo would be make Blood weapon have a 30% magic haste component so that DRK can alway be in capped haste w/ it.

Making the duration 60 secs w/ this would go along way.

Also worth mentioning as long as your swinging your pretty much invincible w/ 80% haste BW SE

Summary

Blood weapon should be a 10 min ja

or a 2hr w/ 60 sec duration and 30% magic haste component.