Wtf SE

[Cljader1]

Automatons may now learn the following spells:

Protect (I-V) / Shell (I-V) / Stoneskin / Haste / Phalanx / Erase / Absorb-Attri / Dispel / Dread Spikes / Addle / Regen IV
*Phalanx and Stoneskin will only be cast upon the master.
*Protect, Shell, and Haste will only be cast upon the master and party members.


This is a F*cking slap in the face, pups can learn "Dreadspikes" and "Absorb-Attri" in the next udpate...I just dont know what too say its unfair it not right I'm beyond angry!

[Soranika]

Why are you QQing over that.... automatons are an amalgamation of all jobs. I definitely don't see PUP replacing DRK any time soon.

[Cljader1]

Why are you QQing over that.... automatons are an amalgamation of all jobs. I definitely don't see PUP replacing DRK any time soon.

So its ok for pup to rip off drk's top tier dark magic and a brand new absorb spell we JUST got...while we fed spoon get Scarlet Delirium?? The only unique spell we have now worth mentioning is drain 2. Pup get a complete overhaul with like 20 new spells, and we cant get a hard look. With all there new spells that they ripped off others jobs but they take drk's BEST spells. Soon the only thing that ill have original for my drk is my apoc and redemption. Its a damn shame really, a automation casting dreadspikes on the puppetmaster, sometime im hard pressed to get off a dreadspikes on myself do to the long casting time.

Then you have idiots saying Scarlet Delirium is good, when a job like pup is get Dreadspikes, Absorb-Attri, Haste, Phalanx, Regen IV, new job traits, new job abilities etc. all in one shot. Absorb-Attri we just got it and pup gets it, no other jobs have blm's aga spells, why do we get screw out of our signatures spells???

[Elphy]

There is very few spells that are job-exclusive anymore and with each update the lines between jobs blur more and more so there is no need to get so upset. Take a deep breath and relax. SE is just trying to fix a job that, although fun, did need some tweeks since it did feel like they did it last minute when it was released.

Also remember that the spells an automation casts are not entirely under any sort of player control. Manuvers may point an automation in a direction but there is still no way to get an automation to use any specific spell so drk will still be able to better utilize thier signature spells. And as Soraninka said, automations have no 'job' per se. Yes some ppl call them whm or rng or pld but really the jobs these automations have are ambiguous at best. I tend more to think of them as healer, nuker, dd and tank since they basically are condensed versions.

ppl been lolpup for so long there really is no need to get ur panties in a twist over se trying to fix it. It's something they should have done long ago

[Cljader1]

There is very few spells that are job-exclusive anymore and with each update the lines between jobs blur more and more so there is no need to get so upset. Take a deep breath and relax. SE is just trying to fix a job that, although fun, did need some tweeks since it did feel like they did it last minute when it was released.

Also remember that the spells an automation casts are not entirely under any sort of player control. Manuvers may point an automation in a direction but there is still no way to get an automation to use any specific spell so drk will still be able to better utilize thier signature spells. And as Soraninka said, automations have no 'job' per se. Yes some ppl call them whm or rng or pld but really the jobs these automations have are ambiguous at best. I tend more to think of them as healer, nuker, dd and tank since they basically are condensed versions.

ppl been lolpup for so long there really is no need to get ur panties in a twist over se trying to fix it. It's something they should have done long ago

Well SE should give them there own unique spells and buffs, they did it with blue mage. Dont rip off dark knight and red mages, they outright gave them dreadspikes...they didnt need to do that, but slapping drks is the face seems to be the theme these days.

[Soranika]

You seem to want to ignore the underlining issue PUPs faced and how PUPs even operate just cause they got spells DRK have. The job has been a broken mess for years now. And these abilities are for the automaton themselves, not at the disposal to use by the PUP. I see nothing to complain about here. What are you gonna do when SMN get their new avatars, specifically Atomos with Soul Vacuum and/or Soul Infusion?

Also, no one said anything about Scarlet Diarrhea. And... since when have automatons been able to cast self buffs their masters? And since when does PUP like to take damage for spike affects?

Edit: If you're having an identity crisis just because PUP got DRK magic without even knowing the potency or effect to which automatons can use them, you need to reevaluate why you play the job.

[Economizer]

pups can learn "Dreadspikes" and "Absorb-Attri" in the next udpate...I just dont know what too say its unfair it not right I'm beyond angry!

A few updates ago when DRK got Absorb-Attri, I remember the majority of the THF community screaming bloody murder about a certain merited ability.

Shoot, if you really want to get technical, Scarlet Delirium was pretty much a rip off of Afflatus Misery at some level, maybe White Mages should be angry at Dark Knights as well.

And while we're getting mad at jobs that take unique job abilities/traits/features, we might as well delete Blue Mage, Corsair, Dancer, Scholar, Red Mage and Puppetmaster from the game.

I don't mean to be too harsh with the humor, but I don't think it is something to be too mad about (but feel free to fume, we all do) since it won't really affect Dark Knights all that much. Dark Knights will be the glass cannons we all know and love.

[Cljader1]

A few updates ago when DRK got Absorb-Attri, I remember the majority of the THF community screaming bloody murder about a certain merited ability.

Shoot, if you really want to get technical, Scarlet Delirium was pretty much a rip off of Afflatus Misery at some level, maybe White Mages should be angry at Dark Knights as well.

And while we're getting mad at jobs that take unique job abilities/traits/features, we might as well delete Blue Mage, Corsair, Dancer, Scholar, Red Mage and Puppetmaster from the game.

I don't mean to be too harsh with the humor, but I don't think it is something to be too mad about (but feel free to fume, we all do) since it won't really affect Dark Knights all that much. Dark Knights will be the glass cannons we all know and love.

DRK is not a glass cannon, if we were we'll be top zerger, top damage outputer with paper defense....instead drk is a mediocare meleers with paper defense...so in otherwords drk is glass shield meleer...with now only one worthwhile unique spell at there disposal drain II...and how long will we have that before its rip over to blm.

Scarlet Delirium is a rip of afflatus misery...are you serious? had you been smoking the stickiest of the inkiest...the too abilities have 2 entirely different functions. Plus most drks dont want that ability, SE can keep that trash, drks should get worthwhile abilities and SE should stop prostituting our spells to every tom, john, and harry who clamours for a update

[Soranika]

DRK is not a glass cannon, if we were we'll be top zerger, top damage outputer with paper defense....instead drk is a mediocare meleers with paper defense...so in otherwords drk is glass shield meleer...with now only one worthwhile unique spell at there disposal drain II...and how long will we have that before its rip over to blm.

Scarlet Delirium is a rip of afflatus misery...are you serious? had you been smoking the stickiest of the inkiest...the too abilities have 2 entirely different functions. Plus most drks dont want that ability, SE can keep that trash, drks should get worthwhile abilities and SE should stop prostituting our spells to every tom, john, and harry who clamours for a update
Afflatus Misery requires WHM to take damage to enhance Cura's cure potency, which had the potential to replace curaga as an mp efficient aoe cure. For esuna to work, you have to get hit by the ailment you want to cure for aoe erase. Pretty much requires you to take some kind of damage or ailment to actually work. Save for Afflatus Misery for Auspice and the fact that it's used in more than one way, Scarlet Delirium concept works the same way.

And DRK.... not a glass cannon? You've not met a Tarutaru by the name of Faceless.

[Cljader1]

Afflatus Misery requires WHM to take damage to enhance Cura's cure potency, which had the potential to replace curaga as an mp efficient aoe cure. For esuna to work, you have to get hit by the ailment you want to cure for aoe erase. Pretty much requires you to take some kind of damage or ailment to actually work. Save for Afflatus Misery for Auspice and the fact that it's used in more than one way, Scarlet Delirium concept works the same way.

And DRK.... not a glass cannon? You've not met a Tarutaru by the name of Faceless.

First of all your main job is SMN, so how do you know how drks feel? We just had our best spells ripped from us...I have never seen ANY job get there best spell ripped from them...How would you feel if drks got Odin, Alex and Atomos huh?? Yeah I said Atomos, because we just got Absorb-Attr on 9/19/11 and its already been ripped. So if drk got Odin, Alex and Atomos, how would you feel about that?

[Soranika]

First of all your main job is SMN, so how do you know how drks feel? We just had our best spells ripped from us...I have never seen ANY job get there best spell ripped from them...How would you feel if drks got Odin, Alex and Atomos huh?? Yeah I said Atomos, because we just got Absorb-Attr on 9/19/11 and its already been ripped. So if drk got Odin, Alex and Atomos, how would you feel about that?LOL Do you really have to ask? The advent of several BLU spells and SCH sucked a lot of advantage away from SMN in aoe buff area. Right now the only buff that we still have that hasn't been replicated yet is Hastega, but it's pretty relative to SCH's new 2hr, embrava. (Edit in: Also, a lot of buffs SMN can use are replicated through BRD and COR buffs as well, in tandom Garuda got Fleet Wind, which pretty much takes directly from BRD's chocobo marzuka.)

DRK already took Odin's lackluster thunder with the Twilight's Scythe's latent ability to cause instant death.
Alexander's perfect defense? A weaker, yet aoe version of PLD's two hour ability.
Atomos... isn't even out yet. The abilities is speculated based on the WotG story fight in which Atomos is summoned and used for.

It isn't as bad as you're making it out to be.

[Cljader1]

You're not making any sense are you really comparing twilight scythe to Odin and say drk is ripping off smn...you cant be serious. Your comparisons make no sense...until drks get to summon a avatar named Odin then you can talk because thats exactly what happen too drks...pup is going to be given a spell call dreadspikes and its cast automatically by the automaton whenever the puppetmaster gets hate...the puppetmaster doesnt have to worry about spell interruption they just hit a dark maneuver are keep on fighting...while we get scarlet delirium

[Soranika]

Oh jezz... You didn't get it. Lemme simply this for you then.

You bitching about PUP's automaton's getting drain-attributes and dread spikes would be like....

SMNs bitching years ago when SCH could aoe stoneskin and blink.
WHMs bitching about SCH stoneskin and blink natively.
RDMs bitching that SMN's diabolos Noctoskin giving.
DNCs bitching about wild flourish being ripped off by SAM's Konzen-ittai that gives the same chainbound effect.

I could go on but let's face it, as I stated before, PUPs are an amalgamation of many jobs depending on the frame and maneuvers used. DRK frame for automatons mimic DRK abilities, deal with it. All you're showing by your complaining is that you have a very poor understanding of how broken PUP has been and how the job even operates.

And as for your lol comment about the comparison between the twilight scythe's latent ability and Odin's ability, what other job has access to cause instantaneous death effect? Exactly. Many support jobs stole SMN thunder because they could do damn here everything SMN could do for a party WITHOUT having to spend time summoning and casting a ward blood pact every 45 seconds to a minute.

Edit: And what the hell? DRKs aren't really counted on for their drain-attri and dreadspike magic anyway. RDM QQing about WHM getting Addle seem to be more of a valid argument than this.

[Cljader1]

SMNs bitching years ago when SCH could aoe stoneskin and blink.
WHMs bitching about SCH stoneskin and blink natively.
RDMs bitching that SMN's diabolos Noctoskin giving.
DNCs bitching about wild flourish being ripped off by SAM's Konzen-ittai that gives the same chainbound effect.


What are you talking about, none of those are the jobs best spells, and those are not top tier job defining spells either, your comparisons are bogus. Why are you even in the drk forums, you offer nothing are far as i'm concerned your just an ant on the wall clamouring for attention, second of all you dont even play drk so how can you offer constructive criticism...wait I know...you cant!

[Economizer]

First of all your main job is SMN, so how do you know how drks feel?

Circumstantial Ad Hominem fallacy. It doesn't matter what job people play most in this game, we aren't incapable of empathy or understanding a simple position like this.


Afflatus Misery requires WHM to take damage to enhance Cura's cure potency

I said it was technically similar, but what I had in mind was the charge system (one hit being recorded) being exactly the same, and how it boosts Banish potency. Ultimately, the point was that complaining about the particular things he was complaining about was as absurd.

It still is absurd. No Puppet is ever going to be as useful as a Dark Knight at doing what a Dark Knight can do, unless the Dark Knight is terribly geared. Pets and NPCs never manage to cast spells as good as properly geared player characters.

[Nightfyre]

What are you talking about, none of those are the jobs best spells, and those are not top tier job defining spells either, your comparisons are bogus. Why are you even in the drk forums, you offer nothing are far as i'm concerned your just an ant on the wall clamouring for attention, second of all you dont even play drk so how can you offer constructive criticism...wait I know...you cant!

Have we really regressed to thinking that you have to play a job to understand it? Ridiculous. Dread Spikes isn't even particularly interesting for PUP, the job favors master damage moreso than BST or SMN and its pets aren't as sturdy. Absorb-Attri offers situational boosts to the pet but it's only part of the job's output, not the whole... and it's my understanding that you have to use a specific combination of automaton parts (Spiritreaver/Harlequin) to even gain access to the spells, which imposes its own limitations. DRK wasn't even the first one to get such a spell anyway, BLU has had Osmosis for over a year now and Voracious Trunk for years before that... you didn't see BLUs QQing about Absorb-Attri, get over yourself.

[Cljader1]

Have we really regressed to thinking that you have to play a job to understand it? Ridiculous. Dread Spikes isn't even particularly interesting for PUP, the job favors master damage moreso than BST or SMN and its pets aren't as sturdy. Absorb-Attri offers situational boosts to the pet but it's only part of the job's output, not the whole... and it's my understanding that you have to use a specific combination of automaton parts (Spiritreaver/Harlequin) to even gain access to the spells, which imposes its own limitations. DRK wasn't even the first one to get such a spell anyway, BLU has had Osmosis for over a year now and Voracious Trunk for years before that... you didn't see BLUs QQing about Absorb-Attri, get over yourself.

False information again on pups casting dreadspikes, you only need to have the blm head on thats it.

[Insaniac]

A few updates ago when DRK got Absorb-Attri, I remember the majority of the THF community screaming bloody murder about a certain merited ability. Not to nit pick but THFs weren't really complaining about DRKs getting absorb-attri. The problem was that like 2 days before SE announced the new spell they told us that putting aura steal on a separate, lower timer would be over powered and then they gave DRK the ability to absorb buffs on a 30-60 second timer. I just don't want THFs legitimate complaints to be lumped in with this thread.

[Kaizersan]

Actually unless you use a PDT setup it wont live long enough to use dread spikes since it needs to be a mage frame and it has to be on the top of the hate list which means the master can not attack it making its uses outside of abyssea pretty low. Just in case you didn't know a mage body is also needed not just the head the head only sets the spells it can cast the body holds the mp which the valoredge body and sharpshot body have no mp.

[Mizuharu]

You do realize that Dread Spikes is cast on the Automaton itself... Yeah? Save for Repairs/Drain I, it's the only way an Automaton can "cure" itself. The only spells that are casted that are originally self-target only are Stoneskin and Phalanx. Same goes for Absorb - Attribute; that the automaton casts it and it gains a status effect onto itself.


What are you talking about, none of those are the jobs best spells, and those are not top tier job defining spells either, your comparisons are bogus. Why are you even in the drk forums, you offer nothing are far as i'm concerned your just an ant on the wall clamouring for attention, second of all you dont even play drk so how can you offer constructive criticism...wait I know...you cant!

They are something that made the job unique though. And please stop pulling the "YOU DON'T HAVE THIS JOB LEVELED!!!!one!1" card. People can have alternate accounts. The one shown on here/ffxiah.com doesn't mean it's their only account. And now a days, with all the info on wikipedia and the test server, people can easily understand a job they havn't leveled.

It's not like PUP is suddenly getting access to every single spell a DRK has. The BLM frame can only cast
Elemental Nukes T1-5
Aspir I/II
Drain
Absorb - Attribute
Absorb - INT
Dread Spikes
Bio I/II
Poison I/II
Slow/Paralyze/Silence

And the DRK spells it does have access to are only on BLM frame; not like we're going to have a WHM casting Dread Spikes on us. It's going to cast Dread Spikes only if it is at the top of the hate list. I really see nothing wrong with that...


BECAUSE UR A PUP!

Quite. Also.


Why are you QQing over that.... automatons are an amalgamation of all jobs. I definitely don't see PUP replacing DRK any time soon.
I'm in your game, stealing yer ally spot.

[Spiritreaver]

This is a F*cking slap in the face, pups can learn "Dreadspikes" and "Absorb-Attri" in the next udpate...I just dont know what too say its unfair it not right I'm beyond angry!

I happen to be both a DRK and PUP 95(among other things) and even if you struck off the PUP from there, i don't see the need for your knee-jerk reaction.


So its ok for pup to rip off drk's top tier dark magic and a brand new absorb spell we JUST got...while we fed spoon get Scarlet Delirium?? The only unique spell we have now worth mentioning is drain 2. Pup get a complete overhaul with like 20 new spells, and we cant get a hard look. With all there new spells that they ripped off others jobs but they take drk's BEST spells. Soon the only thing that ill have original for my drk is my apoc and redemption. Its a damn shame really, a automation casting dreadspikes on the puppetmaster, sometime im hard pressed to get off a dreadspikes on myself do to the long casting time.

Then you have idiots saying Scarlet Delirium is good, when a job like pup is get Dreadspikes, Absorb-Attri, Haste, Phalanx, Regen IV, new job traits, new job abilities etc. all in one shot. Absorb-Attri we just got it and pup gets it, no other jobs have blm's aga spells, why do we get screw out of our signatures spells???

First, as said by others in this thread, PUP is a job who by its very nature mimics some of the abilities of other jobs. Been that way from day one.

Two, dmg-spikes are NOT new, nor are they job defining. RDM and BLM have had them forever(and incidentally the spells have been subbable forever as well) and PLD got their own version at the same DRK did. BLU even has a few.

Three, again as stated before in this thread, BLU has had not one but TWO versions of of absorb-attri since before SE backhandedly tossed DRK our version. And lets not forget THF which has to sink in merits for their version.


Well SE should give them there own unique spells and buffs, they did it with blue mage. Dont rip off dark knight and red mages, they outright gave them dreadspikes...they didnt need to do that, but slapping drks is the face seems to be the theme these days.

BLU does have unique spells, but the job does borrow several from other classes. Animated Wail(full strength Haste) and Battery Charge(Refresh 1.5)-both sharable with merits, some dispels, heals that when geared right rival WHMs, etc etc.

Again stated before, the lines between jobs is only going to continue blurring the higher in lvl we go.


You're not making any sense are you really comparing twilight scythe to Odin and say drk is ripping off smn...you cant be serious. Your comparisons make no sense...until drks get to summon a avatar named Odin then you can talk because thats exactly what happen too drks...pup is going to be given a spell call dreadspikes and its cast automatically by the automaton whenever the puppetmaster gets hate...the puppetmaster doesnt have to worry about spell interruption they just hit a dark maneuver are keep on fighting...while we get scarlet delirium

As of right now, exactly 3 jobs have access to some form of the Death spell. Guess which 3. Now guess which got it first....not DRK.

Touching again on dread spikes, for an automaton to cast it on itself(and no, the master gets zero dread spike joy) a few things need to happen.
1-The pet has to have hate-Admittedly not too hard after dropping a fat T5 nuke(btw 3 jobs in gave get those..)
2-The master needs to have at least 2 Dark manuvers(10 sec recat on manuvers btw) up(now speaking for myself this wont happen much for me as i'm pushing ice mans when i'm nuking on PUP-but thats just me)
3-The automaton has to actually cast the spell(again speaking for me, this one isn't too likely as after my auto pulls hate, i'm wiping hate asap-so no time for it to cast it)

I'll speak on Scarlet Del. farther down.


False information again on pups casting dreadspikes, you only need to have the blm head on thats it.

See above on how PUPs "instantaneously" get dread spikes up....


Scarlet Delirium blows. I don't like it. Its gonna take some serious retooling to get it up to snuff and make me want to use it. And the time spent fixing it could be better spent actually beefing up DRK. SE took some stylized deluded view on what they think DRK should be and needed, and spat out SD.

That said...

Using SE's gross misjudgment in giving DRK this JA in lieu of real buffs as a blanket to blindly lash out at another job in need of attention is both childish and undeserved. Part of the overhaul that PUP has needed for years has come in the form of mimicking 2 aspects of DRK's bag of tricks. 2 smaller aspects imo, especially seeing how in keeping with the trend with hybrids PUP won't be able to make use of dread spikes or abs-attri as well as a DRK.

Calm down and take a pause guy.

You don't like PUP? Don't like that its a hybrid job and is getting the hybrid treatment its been sorely lacking since SE threw the half-finished job at us when it was introduced? You find the automatons frightening? Clowns aren't you're cup of tea? Didn't like Kefka(think about it...)?

That's all fine and dandy. But at least when you overreact, be honest about it. Scarlet Delirium blows harder than Lewinsky and you're pissed about it. As am I and every other DRK i've talked to ingame. But one thing i'm not gonna do is go off half-cocked and cry every time another job gets actual adjustments.

I suggest you do the same.

[Laraul]

Why are you QQing over that.... automatons are an amalgamation of all jobs. I definitely don't see PUP replacing DRK any time soon.

What is "QQing"? I've never known the letter Q to be followed by an other letter than U. So it can't be a word. Other than that I'm at a loss.

Seriously WHY do people make up such words. I speak English and I have no idea what it means. The devs don't speak English... and you wonder why they don't listen...

By the way, the OP should probably use a better subject topic title than "WTF SE"... they could see it as "Well That's Fine Square Enix".

[Orenwald]

QQ is a crying face, so QQing means crying lol

[SpankWustler]

You shouldn't be so upset.

By the time the new spells and AI changes are "properly adjusted" and implemented on normal servers, I'm sure that Dread-Spikes and Absorb-Attri will share a recast with something far better for a puppet to cast and Puppetmasters everywhere will lament that their puppets have such spells at all.

[Dew]

Wait what? Drk is still a job? :O

[Soranika]

Didn't like Kefka(think about it...)?
Wait, who doesn't like Kefka!?


What is "QQing"? I've never known the letter Q to be followed by an other letter than U. So it can't be a word. Other than that I'm at a loss.

Seriously WHY do people make up such words. I speak English and I have no idea what it means. The devs don't speak English... and you wonder why they don't listen...

By the way, the OP should probably use a better subject topic title than "WTF SE"... they could see it as "Well That's Fine Square Enix".
Can't really say I'm posting for dev attention. Nothing I have to really offer would be of any interest to them anyway, generally speaking. Anyway, Orenwald pointed out the meaning below your question.

[Nezha]

Its a damn shame really, a automation casting dreadspikes on the puppetmaster, sometime im hard pressed to get off a dreadspikes on myself do to the long casting time.

I'm a diehard Puppetmaster and have played no other job from the day it came out... I'm not going to get into a long drawn out argument on who deserves what etc. but I just wanted to correct your statement above... The automaton may ONLY cast Dreadspikes on itself, not the Master. Our Automatons receiving spells from the jobs they were modeled after shouldn't be too big of the a surprise (Pro/Shell/Haste/Phalanx/Stoneskin/Addle/Dispel/Erase). Our 1000HP Black Mage Automaton recieving Dreadspikes and Absorb-Attri isn't gonna make him that much better at taking damage. But it's okay, I'm sure every job needs something to fume about... it has just been about our automatons from the day the job came out...


And to the person who replied above Dreadspikes only requires Automaton to have hate and "One" Dark Maneuver :)

[Mizuharu]

You shouldn't be so upset.

By the time the new spells and AI changes are "properly adjusted" and implemented on normal servers, I'm sure that Dread-Spikes and Absorb-Attri will share a recast with something far better for a puppet to cast and Puppetmasters everywhere will lament that their puppets have such spells at all.

Someone didn't read the test server findings~ All spells share a "recast" between what the spell type is (more or less.)

[Economizer]

Not to nit pick but THFs weren't really complaining about DRKs getting absorb-attri. The problem was that like 2 days before SE announced the new spell they told us that putting aura steal on a separate, lower timer would be over powered and then they gave DRK the ability to absorb buffs on a 30-60 second timer. I just don't want THFs legitimate complaints to be lumped in with this thread.

I'm quite aware of this and the circumstances surrounding it (I got to listen to not only the THF threads which I watch closely, but quite a few THF in game and in real life complain about it), but I think it is fair to bring it up as a comparison. The reason I think it is fair is that I was trying to show how ridiculous it is to be upset Puppetmaster will have a less useful version, when Thief had a much bigger issue (and yes, Absorb-ATTRI was just one of the many causes) that involved the ability that Dark Knight has, and also when the spell is not unique at all (perhaps I should have mentioned BLU spells like others in this thread, but I thought the THF - DRK issue was a major enough one to highlight it).

Ultimately, I was just trying to use some humor to reflect the fact that this thread is a tad ridiculous. That and maybe also trying to get Dark Knights to realize that Scarlet Delirium suspiciously shares behavior with Afflatus Misery in the way that damage charges build (I think they might share code in some way).

[SpankWustler]

Someone didn't read the test server findings~ All spells share a "recast" between what the spell type is (more or less.)

That's where the "'properly adjusted' and implemented on normal servers" part comes in. It's best not to underestimate the development team's ability to make once-functional automatons into drooling heaps of tea kettles, unwashed turbans, and twenty-first chromosomes.

Also, I'm more or less joking.

[Orenwald]

That's where the "'properly adjusted' and implemented on normal servers" part comes in. It's best not to underestimate the development team's ability to make once-functional automatons into drooling heaps of tea kettles, unwashed turbans, and twenty-first chromosomes.

Also, I'm more or less joking. Dude... Don't tempt them. The devs are listening :(

[Wolfandre]

This is how I imagine the OP during maintenance.



http://www.epiclol.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/forever-alone.jpg




What's next? U gettin mad over automatons gettin Scarlet Delirium?! Or maybe that Valoredge's weapon looks like a scythe? U mad u can't use a scythe and a shield at the same time too?

Onto something constructive....

For the automaton to need this spell to be cast would spell doom for the automaton anyway. It's got worse defense than you do, and less HP to boot. Dread Spikes just prolongs the inevitable: any BLM head automaton that needs to cast Dread Spikes is a dead automaton, and thusly, a bad PUP.

Disclaimer: I have yet to test this on Undine, so above post may not reflect actual data. They could have given automatons the old Dread Spikes and make me loldrk all the way back to 2006.

[Shadowsong]

This thread is full of win, tho it will die pretty soon unless that QQ DRK posts again

Sentence to make this look on topic: SE stole my BST's Charm, can I QQ over that? And on that note, wouldn't BST now be stealing from PUP with our "permanent" pets?
lol /popcorn

Also LOL at that person complaining about QQ. I think you should be more ashamed of yourself for not knowing a widely used FFXI meme, especially when it's used in about every single post on these forums

[Nightfyre]

BUT THE DEVS ARE READING, WHAT IF THEY DON'T UNDERSTAAAAAAAAAAAAAND

Except they're really not, I'd be willing to bet the community team translates general concepts more often than specific posts and that few if any of the actual devs read the English forums untranslated.

[Kaizersan]

Actually most of the info post on here from the Mods are just translated answers from the JP forum questions

[Atomic_Skull]

This is a F*cking slap in the face, pups can learn "Dreadspikes" and "Absorb-Attri" in the next udpate...I just dont know what too say its unfair it not right I'm beyond angry!

I'm a THF, welcome to my world.

[Rezeak]

This is a F*cking slap in the face, pups can learn "Dreadspikes" and "Absorb-Attri" in the next udpate...I just dont know what too say its unfair it not right I'm beyond angry!

In my opinion it's fair and DRK is my main job.

Either way if you really feel it's a issue i'd say go play pup and understand for them to use Dread spikes it costs alot more than a few mp.

As for the buff

With Dreadspikes a automation (espically the nuking one) never gets hate enough for it to be worth anything and even if it is it's still in the nuking frame and can't heal it's self so dreadspikes isn't that big of a deal anyway.

Absrob-Attri is basically a fancy way of saying dispel.

And if ya still pissed off then SE should remove absorb-attri b/cause it's just a form of dispel and is taking away from the jobs that have it anyway.

[Psxpert2011]

This is a F*cking slap in the face, pups can learn "Dreadspikes" and "Absorb-Attri" in the next udpate...I just dont know what too say its unfair it not right I'm beyond angry!

Man, when your in charge of development, I quest you can make the changes... maybe the majority of PUPs are content with this addition.


So its ok for pup to rip off drk's top tier dark magic and a brand new absorb spell we JUST got...while we fed spoon get Scarlet Delirium?? The only unique spell we have now worth mentioning is drain 2. Pup get a complete overhaul with like 20 new spells, and we cant get a hard look. With all there new spells that they ripped off others jobs but they take drk's BEST spells. Soon the only thing that ill have original for my drk is my apoc and redemption. Its a damn shame really, a automation casting dreadspikes on the puppetmaster, sometime im hard pressed to get off a dreadspikes on myself do to the long casting time.

Then you have idiots saying Scarlet Delirium is good, when a job like pup is get Dreadspikes, Absorb-Attri, Haste, Phalanx, Regen IV, new job traits, new job abilities etc. all in one shot. Absorb-Attri we just got it and pup gets it, no other jobs have blm's aga spells, why do we get screw out of our signatures spells???

Every job is special in their own way, who's to say it's not fair for a job to be inferior or superior just for bias reasons?? It just a automaton, jeez. Get over it lil-boys. I'm sure blms will get some historic/ancient spells.



~Another "LOL-thread", I suggest: Lock.

[Concerned4FFxi]

Pup is over powered and has been over-powered for awhile now, making it more over powered than it already was isn't fixing pup, it's unbalancing other jobs and insulting drks by stealing their best moves. The few things that makes my drk special were the dreadspikes/last resort combo. I always said I had hoped post 75 would give SE the chance to specialize each job but because of the skeleton crew on 11 instead of taking jobs post 75 and giving them specific abilities and spells to make them stand out more in their job you get this: a smearing of the job specifics and a non-specialized 20 job poo-platter.

Again, this is because 14 sucked when it was released, and they had to pull alot of staff off 11 to fix 14. Meanwhile, the skeleton crew on 11 tried to tackle everything with a minimalistic approach, the results are blurring the job lines. AT 99 my blu/rdm/blm/sch/whm/brd should be able to form mecha-zoid, because thats how it looks right now.

If your a DEV ask yourself if you would want to play this game right now, or if you rather play a gamewhich has 20 distinct jobs and abilites per job class.

[Nightfyre]

Pup is over powered and has been over-powered for awhile now
:confused:

[Winrie]

Pup is over powered and has been over-powered for awhile now, making it more over powered than it already was isn't fixing pup, it's unbalancing other jobs and insulting drks by stealing their best moves. The few things that makes my drk special were the dreadspikes/last resort combo. I always said I had hoped post 75 would give SE the chance to specialize each job but because of the skeleton crew on 11 instead of taking jobs post 75 and giving them specific abilities and spells to make them stand out more in their job you get this: a smearing of the job specifics and a non-specialized 20 job poo-platter.

Again, this is because 14 sucked when it was released, and they had to pull alot of staff off 11 to fix 14. Meanwhile, the skeleton crew on 11 tried to tackle everything with a minimalistic approach, the results are blurring the job lines. AT 99 my blu/rdm/blm/sch/whm/brd should be able to form mecha-zoid, because thats how it looks right now.

If your a DEV ask yourself if you would want to play this game right now, or if you rather play a gamewhich has 20 distinct jobs and abilites per job class.

If i was a dev id ask myself if i really wanted to continue reading forums with all the crybaby bullshit like the OP and this post that sounds like a mish mash of what people say with bad facts, pup over powered? are you f**king serious? if it was any sense of overpowered ppl would be using it. Secondly, giving a f'n automaton rdm spells and dreadspikes isnt warranting such a ridiculous nerdragefest this thread is, yes im talking to you OP. As it was said, pup is the least played job, its also the most useless in endgame content, so save the QQing for when a different DD steals your souleater or something worth complaining over christ.

[Cljader1]

Man, when your in charge of development, I quest you can make the changes... maybe the majority of PUPs are content with this addition.



Every job is special in their own way, who's to say it's not fair for a job to be inferior or superior just for bias reasons?? It just a automaton, jeez. Get over it lil-boys. I'm sure blms will get some historic/ancient spells.



~Another "LOL-thread", I suggest: Lock.

And I suggest you shut-up, I complished more in this game then you can probably ever dream to do...I do play pup it was my main job before I switched to drk. by the way I'm the one who did the testing and figuring what the attachment Schurzen did for the pup community, look me up on alla name CLjader I did boat loads of testing...I know very well how pup work so as I said I think you need to shhhh be quiet and go away

[Siiri]

I also do not think this is a big deal. It really should matter 0 to DRKs if a puppet casts absorb-attr or dread spikes. That being said, I do think there is an underlying current in this thread and the Spirit thread that Pup has gotten a huge amount of updates at the expense of other jobs. The question is, why are all these updates necessary. If this AI fix is what pup needed, it should have been done years ago. If I feel like it later I may pull out all the update notes, I think PUP has had a job adjustment every update for the past 2 years or so. With a skeleton crew, its time for other jobs to be updated. I hope this pup fix finally does it satisfactorily since the others apparently haven't. It's time to give the PUPdates a rest, along with the scholar updates. Fix the jobs the first time and move on.

[Spiritreaver]

I also do not think this is a big deal. It really should matter 0 to DRKs if a puppet casts absorb-attr or dread spikes. That being said, I do think there is an underlying current in this thread and the Spirit thread that Pup has gotten a huge amount of updates at the expense of other jobs. The question is, why are all these updates necessary. If this AI fix is what pup needed, it should have been done years ago. If I feel like it later I may pull out all the update notes, I think PUP has had a job adjustment every update for the past 2 years or so. With a skeleton crew, its time for other jobs to be updated. I hope this pup fix finally does it satisfactorily since the others apparently haven't. It's time to give the PUPdates a rest, along with the scholar updates. Fix the jobs the first time and move on.

Reading that got me thinking, so i went and did just that and had a good look at the version update notes for major version updates from the last 3 years. Very interesting read to see the changes that have been carried out over the yrs.
Version Update History Page (http://www.playonline.com/pcd/verup/ff11us/update.html)

I was really surprised to see that in that list of major changes over the last 3 yrs, the last time an update with job changes that was mostly about PUP happened was March 23, 2010. That was when PUP's HTH skill was bumped in addition to other little fixes. And even that wasn't a PUP exclusive update as SMN got some fixes and Alex/Odin as Avatars.

Aside from that, any other fixes/additions to PUP have been accompanied by fixes/additions to other jobs as well.

I agree that SE needs to just stop mucking about and settle issues asap instead of constantly picking at problems at times. But keep in mind that FFXI IS a mmo and as such its constantly changing. so there will always be a need for tweeks.

[Siiri]

Reading that got me thinking, so i went and did just that and had a good look at the version update notes for major version updates from the last 3 years. Very interesting read to see the changes that have been carried out over the yrs.
Version Update History Page (http://www.playonline.com/pcd/verup/ff11us/update.html)

I was really surprised to see that in that list of major changes over the last 3 yrs, the last time an update with job changes that was mostly about PUP happened was March 23, 2010. That was when PUP's HTH skill was bumped in addition to other little fixes. And even that wasn't a PUP exclusive update as SMN got some fixes and Alex/Odin as Avatars.

Aside from that, any other fixes/additions to PUP have been accompanied by fixes/additions to other jobs as well.

I agree that SE needs to just stop mucking about and settle issues asap instead of constantly picking at problems at times. But keep in mind that FFXI IS a mmo and as such its constantly changing. so there will always be a need for tweeks.

Yeah, that is the exact page I was looking for. Thanks. It appears 2011 is lacking though. I moderate our linkshell forum, and always post updates. This is one thing I found that I posted April 22nd of this year. Not sure when it was implemented, June maybe?

Puppetmaster
The following automaton attachments will be added:

Name Description
Heat Capacitor A fire-based automaton attachment.
Functionality: Erases all Fire Maneuver effects to restore TP.

Power Cooler An ice-based automaton attachment.
Functionality: Reduces MP cost in proportion to the number of Ice Maneuvers in effect.

Barrage Turbine A wind-based automaton attachment.
Functionality: Erases all Wind Maneuver effects to occasionally grant a Barrage effect.

Galvanizer A lightning-based automaton attachment.
Functionality: Increases chance of countering in proportion to the number of Thunder Maneuvers in effect.

The following weapon skills will be added for the Valoredge and Sharpshot frames:

Skill Name Frame Effect

String Shredder Valoredge Delivers a twofold attack.
Critical hit rate varies with TP.

Armor Shatterer Sharpshot Delivers a fourfold attack.
Additional effect: Weakens defense
Additional effect duration varies with TP.

This was a fairly large update to Pup, and was just a few months ago. I don't begrudge PUP being fixed, just wish SE would do it and move on to other jobs.

[Soranika]

Starting some where specific is better than starting everywhere and failing at it. Just as long as they don't forget the other jobs that need attention.

[Spiritreaver]

Yeah, that is the exact page I was looking for. Thanks. It appears 2011 is lacking though. I moderate our linkshell forum, and always post updates. This is one thing I found that I posted April 22nd of this year. Not sure when it was implemented, June maybe?

Puppetmaster
The following automaton attachments will be added:

Name Description
Heat Capacitor A fire-based automaton attachment.
Functionality: Erases all Fire Maneuver effects to restore TP.

Power Cooler An ice-based automaton attachment.
Functionality: Reduces MP cost in proportion to the number of Ice Maneuvers in effect.

Barrage Turbine A wind-based automaton attachment.
Functionality: Erases all Wind Maneuver effects to occasionally grant a Barrage effect.

Galvanizer A lightning-based automaton attachment.
Functionality: Increases chance of countering in proportion to the number of Thunder Maneuvers in effect.

The following weapon skills will be added for the Valoredge and Sharpshot frames:

Skill Name Frame Effect

String Shredder Valoredge Delivers a twofold attack.
Critical hit rate varies with TP.

Armor Shatterer Sharpshot Delivers a fourfold attack.
Additional effect: Weakens defense
Additional effect duration varies with TP.

This was a fairly large update to Pup, and was just a few months ago. I don't begrudge PUP being fixed, just wish SE would do it and move on to other jobs.

That list is from the May mini-update this year. I think this is why there are no other entries on that first page i linked. Here is the official work up

dev1010 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/5950)

LOL just noticed that the first job listed with changes was DRK. But then that tracks that everytime they update there will be smaller changes(relatively) but more frequently. DRK, RNG, and PUP were the main jobs adjusted there, tho RDM, WHM, and SCH got a new trait as well, and not forgetting the VIT changes that effected all jobs across the board some.

And here is a link to all the updates since SE swapped to the more frequent mini-updates

Implemented Changes List (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/forums/294-Implemented)



Starting some where specific is better than starting everywhere and failing at it. Just as long as they don't forget the other jobs that need attention.

I agree and just going back and spot-revisiting some of the adjustments/additions, SE seems to be trying. And even falling short here and there, i have to give a credit and say this is tons better than they were in the past.

[Shadowsong]

Pup is over powered and has been over-powered for awhile now, making it more over powered than it already was isn't fixing pup, it's unbalancing other jobs and insulting drks by stealing their best moves. The few things that makes my drk special were the dreadspikes/last resort combo. I always said I had hoped post 75 would give SE the chance to specialize each job but because of the skeleton crew on 11 instead of taking jobs post 75 and giving them specific abilities and spells to make them stand out more in their job you get this: a smearing of the job specifics and a non-specialized 20 job poo-platter.

Again, this is because 14 sucked when it was released, and they had to pull alot of staff off 11 to fix 14. Meanwhile, the skeleton crew on 11 tried to tackle everything with a minimalistic approach, the results are blurring the job lines. AT 99 my blu/rdm/blm/sch/whm/brd should be able to form mecha-zoid, because thats how it looks right now.

If your a DEV ask yourself if you would want to play this game right now, or if you rather play a gamewhich has 20 distinct jobs and abilites per job class.

I know this is English but I just... can't... comprehend. PUP overpowered? It's adequate if anything, and that's if the person using it is good and they are well geared. Give the puppet every ability in the game who cares, you can't even control it 100%.
Talking to the Devs like they are children is also not the way to get results (like they read this anyway with the crying in the OP)
As the jobs approach 99 you should anticipate much more generalization and blurring of the lines between jobs, not the opposite, and I very much prefer this. No longer are people forced to come RDM or PLD just because they had the job leveled.

It seems to me that perhaps it is time for you and the OP to stop playing the game? It's had a long run and maybe you need a game with more specialization and more frequent updates?

[Wolfandre]

The only reason PUP had so many updates is because of a back-and-forth that went a little like this...:

PUPs: SE! We're crying out! Our automatons are dumb as hell! Help us!
SE: Have no fear, PUPs! Here's more attachments!
PUPs: ...well, these are nice, but we still have this issue we're dealing with...
SE: Oh, that didn't fix it? What if we gave you higher skill in Hand-to-Hand?....and MORE ATTACHMENTS!! YEAH!! YOU GET AN ATTACHMENT!!! AND YOU GET AN ATTACHMENT!!!
PUPs: ........
SE: ....automaton Subtle Blow?
PUPs: ....................
SE: Ok, maybe we can work something out here....want some DRK spells?

So you see, the only reason Puppetmaster has had so many mini-pupdates is that SE didn't know how to fix our problems, and was giving us filler content until they knew how to best tackle our problem. (Even if this isn't that case, please just let me believe it.)

It's my favorite job. But I admit, it's needed work. And it's been a long time coming. Please just let us have this. We'll go away afterward. We promise.

[Kriegsgott]

By the way, the OP should probably use a better subject topic title than "WTF SE"... they could see it as "Well That's Fine Square Enix".

This made my day LOL!
just wonder why the most Threads ar about Flaming and how STUPID SE is and how the trying to Force people to play the other FF game because the ar Killing FFXI slowly but the wont play it because of *walltext*
why cant these people just quit and play some Free MMORPG's or probably WoW i heard this game is very easy to play and SE can finally stop making this game to Easy and feed all the poor unskilled people with nice stuff!

(yeah i know bad grammer but i'm sure everyone got the point i wanted to set)

[Afrohatch]

Didn't DRK get Break in the same update? I haven't seen any crying in the RDM or BLM threads over DRK getting it. If people were crying, it wasn't as bad as this guy's lol

[Urteil]

SCH can solo shinryuu without a brew on test server.


So can I have drain III and absorbs that don't decay now?

[Zemarin]

wow what a crybaby, i have drk man and pup... honestly i see this post pathetic. Please get over it, Absorb Attri is a ghetto dark magic version of Dispel... pups pet dont even have nether void either so they can never absorb 2.

Absorb attri/damage spikes are hardly unique. Absorb spells and Endark is.. and only drk has it. Case in point, please shut up.

[Cljader1]

wow what a crybaby, i have drk man and pup... honestly i see this post pathetic. Please get over it, Absorb Attri is a ghetto dark magic version of Dispel... pups pet dont even have nether void either so they can never absorb 2.

Absorb attri/damage spikes are hardly unique. Absorb spells and Endark is.. and only drk has it. Case in point, please shut up.

Soon as you opened your mouth you prove how idiotic you are...dreadspikes and absorb-attri use to be unique to drk and there very useful spells too drk, absorb stats spell suck...but even a clown is entitled to there opinion...I just cant wait the us drks get your comet next update ^^

[Soranika]

Soon as you opened your mouth you prove how idiotic you are...dreadspikes and absorb-attri use to be unique to drk and there very useful spells too drk, absorb stats spell suck...but even a clown is entitled to there opinion...I just cant wait the us drks get your comet next update ^^
In case you didn't read some other people's posts, BLU had had them first. Just saying...
And DRK won't get comet. But if they do, more power too them. Comet doesn't define BLM job. Historically speaking, DRKs are about their job specific abilities more than what magic they use. You should really take that to heart and put your energy asking for something better than scarlet diarrhea because last I check DRKs aren't a mage job.

[Urteil]

Darkblade.

Chaos Edge.

Contagion - gives all my status effects to the target. <--- Yes please.

[Cljader1]

In case you didn't read some other people's posts, BLU had had them first. Just saying...
And DRK won't get comet. But if they do, more power too them. Comet doesn't define BLM job. Historically speaking, DRKs are about their job specific abilities more than what magic they use. You should really take that to heart and put your energy asking for something better than scarlet diarrhea because last I check DRKs aren't a mage job.

drk have 44 spells at there arsenal how about we make some of them good, drks can already use "Impact" so Comet would be just a natural fit for drks. Drks have high elemental magic skill and we are sorely lacking in the elemental magic department we should make use of it. I think SE will give us the spell plus it make Occult Acumen more useful

[Urteil]

drk have 44 spells at there arsenal how about we make some of them good, drks can already use "Impact" so Comet would be just a natural fit for drks. Drks have high elemental magic skill and we are sorely lacking in the elemental magic department we should make use of it. I think SE will give us the spell plus it make Occult Acumen more useful


I want our magic to make more sense too especially with four tiers (Occult Acumen) devoted to it.

Why does our magic suck so much, obviously SE wanted us to cast more, so please give us spells for it.

[Afrohatch]

Give DRKs a spell that costs most of their MP pool so they can't cast anything else, please

[Soranika]

drk have 44 spells at there arsenal how about we make some of them good, drks can already use "Impact" so Comet would be just a natural fit for drks. Drks have high elemental magic skill and we are sorely lacking in the elemental magic department we should make use of it. I think SE will give us the spell plus it make Occult Acumen more useful
Comet and Meteor fits along the line of ancient magic that are only used by BLM (or in prior games Sage job). How is that a good fit for DRK?.... neverming... whatever you say.

[Economizer]

How is that a good fit for DRK?

Comet is a couple MP too cheap and casts a bit too long, but basically, with AF3 legs and OA TP boosts, any Elemental/Dark Magic spell that casts really, really fast, does at least one point of damage, and costs 400 or more MP would be a great spell for Dark Knight (less MP cost if DRK gets more tiers/gear boosts to Acumen).

I think a good idea for this would be a Death spell that costs 400 MP. It would be very low accuracy, but if resisted, it would do a guaranteed one point of damage, no matter what mob it is (except maybe undead).

Actually an Absorb-TP II spell would be better (maybe 2-3x the TP that is drained is granted?), but I think it is somewhat less likely then my previously mentioned Death spell.

[Soranika]

Absorb-TP II would seem to ruin the need of any other spell for OA then, right? Other than that though, I understand what Comet would be good for.

[Cljader1]

If drk get comet OA would yield back about 75-80% tp, that'll be great for drk thats even better than absorb-tp II, after comet you'll be near instantly ready to perform a weaponskill.

[Urteil]

Give DRKs a spell that costs most of their MP pool so they can't cast anything else, please

Alright and if it did that we'd get an instant WS. Works for me.

[Dart]

the amount of stupid in this thread is filling to the brim~

[Urteil]

Not as stupid as DRK's who think they are warriors~

[Urteil]

If drk get comet OA would yield back about 75-80% tp, that'll be great for drk thats even better than absorb-tp II, after comet you'll be near instantly ready to perform a weaponskill.

I know this doesn't matter since the casting time is retarded, but Impact gives 135%~ with AF+2 Boots and Oneiros Belt.


Bio II gives 7tp per cast /sam with Boots + Belt.

Its like SE almost had something with this trait, then totally blew it by making it not applicable to anything. Why would I not swing my scythe?

Just feels really half assed.

[Cljader1]

I know this doesn't matter since the casting time is retarded, but Impact gives 135%~ with AF+2 Boots and Oneiros Belt.


Bio II gives 7tp per cast /sam with Boots + Belt.



Its like SE almost had something with this trait, then totally blew it by making it not applicable to anything. Why would I not swing my scythe?

Just feels really half assed.

It is half ass, OA yields back to little tp, there should be a huge tp boost whenever a drk cast its elemental nukes.

[Dart]

Not as stupid as DRK's who think they are warriors~

lmao you make it sound like I never cast. Which is about as far from reality as it gets. I just like to tank so i do damage :)

[Urteil]

Oh man Thunder III.

I can't wait!


. . .

[Economizer]

It is half ass, OA yields back to little tp, there should be a huge tp boost whenever a drk cast its elemental nukes.

The issue isn't the TP gain rate - DRK gets ~25% of the spell cost back in TP with the right gear. This is not only the best of all jobs with the job trait, but it is fairly amazing - a 100 MP spell will net you 25 TP! No, the issue for Dark Knight is that the spells take a long time to cast compared to melee and interrupt melee.

Dark Knight could either use faster spells, or spells not interrupting melee cycles. Well, that or a bunch of mobs that you have to fight at range or can't hit with melee for parts of the fight and get to WS every 15-30 seconds (depending on what spells you are using). Ultimately, Dark Knight's nukes don't outpace melee damage from the TP phase - if they did, Dark Knights would nuke for TP instead.

A basic understanding of game mechanics and this thread would have never happened.

[Urteil]

If the spells take too long to cast, so they are never used, resulting in 0 tp gain. Thats insufficent tp gain.

If they were shorter to cast, but resulted in terrible tp gain and were never used. Thats insufficient tp gain.


So because of how the spells mechanically work, and the mechanics of the JA the 25% return isn't worth it because of the combination of crap casting time/damage of our magic/not being worth giving up melee swings.

Mechanics!

[Cljader1]

The issue isn't the TP gain rate - DRK gets ~25% of the spell cost back in TP with the right gear. This is not only the best of all jobs with the job trait, but it is fairly amazing - a 100 MP spell will net you 25 TP! No, the issue for Dark Knight is that the spells take a long time to cast compared to melee and interrupt melee.

Dark Knight could either use faster spells, or spells not interrupting melee cycles. Well, that or a bunch of mobs that you have to fight at range or can't hit with melee for parts of the fight and get to WS every 15-30 seconds (depending on what spells you are using). Ultimately, Dark Knight's nukes don't outpace melee damage from the TP phase - if they did, Dark Knights would nuke for TP instead.

A basic understanding of game mechanics and this thread would have never happened.

How can you get a 25% return rate for OA, Please explain this to me in detail and what gear augments OA besides AF3 drk boots?

[Urteil]

He's talking about Oneiros rope + Bale Sollerets +2. Also since OA is affected by store TP you get some crazy returns.

However the problem is the casting time, and the lack of a a few things, most notably Magic attack Bonus Tier I.

Our magic is slow and suffers form the lack of synergy in our job traits to boost, we have good gear but its just so slow and hinders TP gain when in theory this was supposed to enhance it.


The real way to make this work would be to give DRK the equivalent to Holy/Holy II, make it based on INT Dark Magic Skill and MAB and be done with it.

[Cljader1]

I didn't even know store tp affected OA, but ill be nice if they made and tier 3 nukes useful since SE insist on filling up are spell list with them.

[Leonlionheart]

Fix OA: Change TP gain to scale with both MP cost and casting time and have it increased proportionately to your current attack speed. Delay/Casting Time + MP/Tier of OA = TP gain.

Base Delay: 513(8.55s), casting Fire III (6s, 113 MP) would net you 16.3 TP (5 from Cast, 11.3 from MP), including a heavy STP set you would get 24.1 TP.

Capped Haste Delay: 102.6(1.71s), casting Fire III (6s, 113 MP) would net you 39.8 TP (28.5 from Cast, 11.3 from MP), including a heavy STP set you would get 58.9 TP. (Dealing 300 damage, if lucky, compared to around 4 melee hits doing 100~800 dmg each, this tradeoff would still be heavily underpowered and only used when proccing odd weapons in VW)

How is this overpowered when at most DRK gets (from gear) 5/mp tick back (severely gimping yourself if using refresh set in DD situations) and you'd run out of MP after 4~6 Fire III's?

Honestly DRG can get something around 40~80~160 TP just from Soul Jump(NA~DA~TA proc), and SAM can get like 110 just from Ikishoten+Zanshin(hasso) procs with Kikugosaku (inb4 masa or ->). WAR can get, theoretically, 100.2 TP in 3 seconds (in Abyssea, prime conditions, against a target with TA) with Retaliation + Apocalypse Atma. Asking for 60 TP in prime conditions while SEVERELY gimping your DPS isn't much to ask for.

[Urteil]

Fix OA: Change TP gain to scale with both MP cost and casting time and have it increased proportionately to your current attack speed. Delay/Casting Time + MP/Tier of OA = TP gain.

Base Delay: 513(8.55s), casting Fire III (6s, 113 MP) would net you 16.3 TP (5 from Cast, 11.3 from MP), including a heavy STP set you would get 24.1 TP.

Capped Haste Delay: 102.6(1.71s), casting Fire III (6s, 113 MP) would net you 39.8 TP (28.5 from Cast, 11.3 from MP), including a heavy STP set you would get 58.9 TP. (Dealing 300 damage, if lucky, compared to around 4 melee hits doing 100~800 dmg each, this tradeoff would still be heavily underpowered and only used when proccing odd weapons in VW)

How is this overpowered when at most DRK gets (from gear) 5/mp tick back (severely gimping yourself if using refresh set in DD situations) and you'd run out of MP after 4~6 Fire III's?

Honestly DRG can get something around 40~80~160 TP just from Soul Jump(NA~DA~TA proc), and SAM can get like 110 just from Ikishoten+Zanshin(hasso) procs with Kikugosaku (inb4 masa or ->). WAR can get, theoretically, 100.2 TP in 3 seconds (in Abyssea, prime conditions, against a target with TA) with Retaliation + Apocalypse Atma. Asking for 60 TP in prime conditions while SEVERELY gimping your DPS isn't much to ask for.

I like the idea but we both know its too complicated for them to implement.

I was just hoping for Holy/Holy II Dark Magic reskins and insta spell-tping thataway.

My ultimate dream was having Dark Seal boost the damage of our next Dark Magic spell, because its useless anyway.

But whatever.

[Dart]

Fix OA: Change TP gain to scale with both MP cost and casting time and have it increased proportionately to your current attack speed. Delay/Casting Time + MP/Tier of OA = TP gain.

Base Delay: 513(8.55s), casting Fire III (6s, 113 MP) would net you 16.3 TP (5 from Cast, 11.3 from MP), including a heavy STP set you would get 24.1 TP.

Capped Haste Delay: 102.6(1.71s), casting Fire III (6s, 113 MP) would net you 39.8 TP (28.5 from Cast, 11.3 from MP), including a heavy STP set you would get 58.9 TP. (Dealing 300 damage, if lucky, compared to around 4 melee hits doing 100~800 dmg each, this tradeoff would still be heavily underpowered and only used when proccing odd weapons in VW)

How is this overpowered when at most DRK gets (from gear) 5/mp tick back (severely gimping yourself if using refresh set in DD situations) and you'd run out of MP after 4~6 Fire III's?

Honestly DRG can get something around 40~80~160 TP just from Soul Jump(NA~DA~TA proc), and SAM can get like 110 just from Ikishoten+Zanshin(hasso) procs with Kikugosaku (inb4 masa or ->). WAR can get, theoretically, 100.2 TP in 3 seconds (in Abyssea, prime conditions, against a target with TA) with Retaliation + Apocalypse Atma. Asking for 60 TP in prime conditions while SEVERELY gimping your DPS isn't much to ask for.

oh thank god, i was starting to think that I was alone.

[Urteil]

oh thank god, i was starting to think that I was alone.

In reality his post/idea/method.

Would be amazing, but I fear its a pipe dream.

I'll continue sacrificing cats to my emo shrine to see if it comes about however.

[SpankWustler]

Fix OA: Change TP gain to scale with both MP cost and casting time and have it increased proportionately to your current attack speed. Delay/Casting Time + MP/Tier of OA = TP gain.

Base Delay: 513(8.55s), casting Fire III (6s, 113 MP) would net you 16.3 TP (5 from Cast, 11.3 from MP), including a heavy STP set you would get 24.1 TP.

Capped Haste Delay: 102.6(1.71s), casting Fire III (6s, 113 MP) would net you 39.8 TP (28.5 from Cast, 11.3 from MP), including a heavy STP set you would get 58.9 TP. (Dealing 300 damage, if lucky, compared to around 4 melee hits doing 100~800 dmg each, this tradeoff would still be heavily underpowered and only used when proccing odd weapons in VW)

How is this overpowered when at most DRK gets (from gear) 5/mp tick back (severely gimping yourself if using refresh set in DD situations) and you'd run out of MP after 4~6 Fire III's?

Honestly DRG can get something around 40~80~160 TP just from Soul Jump(NA~DA~TA proc), and SAM can get like 110 just from Ikishoten+Zanshin(hasso) procs with Kikugosaku (inb4 masa or ->). WAR can get, theoretically, 100.2 TP in 3 seconds (in Abyssea, prime conditions, against a target with TA) with Retaliation + Apocalypse Atma. Asking for 60 TP in prime conditions while SEVERELY gimping your DPS isn't much to ask for.

A far more simplistic way to implement this would be to just use the spell's recast reduction as a factor in Occult Acumen. The only big issue I can see popping up is that recast reduction caps at 50% but delay reduction caps at 80%.

Less ideal, but seems like a more realistic change somehow.