BALLISTA TOURNAMENT [Archive] - FINAL FANTASY XI Forum

Urteil

10-29-2011, 09:22 AM

I am going to be hosting a 1 v 1 Ballista Tournament! Anyone is welcome to participate as the buy in will be 25,000, in addition to a 500,000g prize I will be furnishing myself.

The first place winner will also receive 50 x single pieces in a currency of their choice.

(Do not worry - as I will not be participating during the official proceedings and will be ineligible for the tournament prize.)
(However I will be up for battle, for anyone that wishes, after the event has finished.)

Anyone and everyone is welcome to join, the more people that turn out the better.

========================================
Where: Upper Jueno / Abdhaljs Isle-Purgonorgo

When: 11/5/2011 12:00PST|14:00CST|15:00EST|19:000GMT

Why: The Champion will recieve 75% of the entry fee + 500,000g + Bronzpiece Or Whiteshell Or 1 Byne x 50!

The champion will have the opportunity to face me in a special three round showdown after the tournament is concluded for a chance at an even greater prize!

You aren't wusses are you?! Well most of you are, but here's your chance!

(The remaining 25% will go to the runner ups.)

Rules:

Any job combination of any level is allowed to join, I personally suggest a 95 one.

Two hours are prohibited.
There are no items allowed during matches, and food is prohibited.

You are not allowed to change your main job.
However you will be told the main job of your enemy, you must immediately declare a main and sub job in /tell and this cannot be changed.
Both participants will have no knowledge of their opponents sub job selection, only main job.

You will be given time to recover hp/mp between rounds.

Both participants will be in a party, with witnesses to see vitals and discourage shenanigans.

All bouts will consist of two rounds, the first person to two victories is the winner.

TP resets before and between rounds, both participants start each round with 0% TP.

Both participants in a match will begin at their camp, and have two minutes to cast enhancing magic / prepare for the encounter, meet on the beach and begin fighting. Kill on sight.

If you do not make it to the beach and are not actively pursuing your enemy in two minutes you will be disqualified.

All matches will be held on the beach on the north side of the map, kiting is allowed and encouraged for jobs that must make use of it.

Running close enough to the Posten so that your enemy cannot pursue you is an instant loss, and you will be disqualified.

All matches are process of elimination, the brackets and matchups will be decided when everyone is present.

If you do feel that you wish to come send me PM or /tell me in game and show up on the desired day.

=========

Anyone, and everyone, even if you have me blacklisted I will not refuse you. I can not stress enough how little I care about who you are etc.

Feel free to show up and kill each other for money! (And Glory.)

**Notes**

For pet jobs you can go to your Mog House and recover your pet between rounds.

Remember! Utility is golden.

Resist gear is never a bad idea, its a GREAT idea.

/Sprint is there for a reason

Gear swaps penalize you, so use your brain and make an advantageous gear set, unless you're retarded.

If you have /ANY/ questions about PvP or ballista feel free to talk to me, I will be glad to assist you with basic questions about gear swapping, differences to the battle system, etc.

Tsukino_Kaji

10-29-2011, 12:32 PM

Pointless superfluous events. {No thanks.}
Also.
This is a coop game, not a PvP game.

MDenham

10-29-2011, 12:55 PM

I don't think anyone's going to change servers just for this, so maybe posting this in the Phoenix server forum would make more sense.

Alhanelem

10-29-2011, 02:04 PM

Would consider it if I was on your server and if it was normal ballista, not 1v1.

FFXI's PvP is not built or balanced for 1v1. party synergy is the key to success. Some jobs are at an inherent disadvantage in 1v1, so you'd only end up with the same few jobs no matter how many people participated, making it a rather uninteresting competition.

Opposing players should never be in the same party. What kind of "shenanegans" could people pull anyway?

This is a coop game, not a PvP game. This is a whatever-you-want-it-to-be game. You don't dictate what the game is or isn't. Some people like PvP as a "for-fun" activity, and it exists to throw said people a bone. You're fully welcome not to participate, but don't project your personal feelings about it on others.

Leonlionheart

10-29-2011, 02:09 PM

:< wrong server

Siviard

10-29-2011, 03:08 PM

People still Ballista??

That baffles my mind to no end. I'd rather play SOCOM to get my PvP fix tyvm

Leonlionheart

10-29-2011, 03:31 PM

People hate on ballista, and it's not for everyone.

However doing every now and then is quite enjoyable

Arcon

10-29-2011, 04:24 PM

Ballista is awesome, but I don't support this idea because the title is in all caps.

Tsukino_Kaji

10-29-2011, 06:19 PM

This is a whatever-you-want-it-to-be game.This from the kind of person who'd berate someone for their choice of sub?
You don't dictate what the game is or isn't.I didn't dictate anything, it IS a coop game. Otherwise there would be more PvP then some random corner in some hole that no one has cared about for the last 5 years.

Arcon

10-29-2011, 06:55 PM

I didn't dictate anything, it IS a coop game. Otherwise there would be more PvP then some random corner in some hole that no one has cared about for the last 5 years.

Assumption and fallacious implication. It is not a co-op game, and even if there wasn't any PvP at all, it still wouldn't be. There's competition at every corner, ironically even more so recently, despite SE's intentions. Ballista is just another form of competition. Not many have cared about it simply because there was nothing to gain from it, and people rather spend their time doing something productive than something fun, which has always been the case with FFXI and which is precisely what FFXI runs on, the desire from players to get better. That's why everyone is annoyed with current content, even though there's a massive number of things they could be doing for fun. And that's why Ballista was at its height when endgame people ran out of things to do and got the gear they were looking for. As to the thought of Ballista's popularity, while not recent, you apparently forgot that despite the lack of rewards, there were massive Ballista tournaments organized by SE, cross-server, with hundreds of participants each.

You're the typical hater that makes up reasons against something they personally dislike. Thankfully, most people already know that and ignore what you have to say.

uptempo

10-29-2011, 11:49 PM

Well said Arcon that idiot Tsukino_Kaji sounds like 99% of the valefor population bunch of morons. I'd love it if se added something that got people to want to do more ballista.

Good luck with this Urteil

willydemon

11-05-2011, 03:27 PM

While I am on the wrong server, and am not a fan of 1-vs-1 Ballista matches personally, I fully support the promotion of Ballista in all forms. I'd love to see another Ballista Royale Tournament. (I started playing shortly after they took place way back when). I would Ballista every chance I got, if only I weren't too lazy/antisocial to shout for people for official matches/Diorama matches. Some of the most memorable moments I've had playing this game were in Ballista. If nothing else, just boost the reward you get for completing an official match in a way similar to the boosts that Beseiged and Campaign Battles have received. And maybe cut some of the less popular caps (like 40 and 50, from my experience), and replace them with the more popular (as of a couple years ago, of course) 60 and uncapped official matches. More opportunities to Ballista during a given Earth day might help to increase attendance. :)

Good luck with your tournament, and may the cheapest best man/woman win!

P.S. - Really, I just want a Stars Cap. :(

Urteil

11-05-2011, 10:06 PM

P.S. - Really, I just want a Stars Cap. :(

Tomorrow is the big day, although there wasn't much activity on this forum it doesn't surprise me in the least, however I wanted to get the news out to as many people that might be interested.

Please enjoy this humorous video as an example of what not to do, and an example of most of the "skill" found in the FFXI community: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyal-oFeXwo

Also we have that guy going to be commentating on our matches and will be uploading them to youtube after it ends and a champion is declared.

nyheen

11-05-2011, 11:05 PM

iam a hard core fan of pvp or any form of ballista. used to be on that server for short time. wish i was there to join><. great you guys rec the battles. cant wait to see it! should of moved there just to join that tournament! good luck and kick some butt! :)

Selzak

11-06-2011, 01:47 AM

Pointless superfluous events. {No thanks.}
Also.
This is a coop game, not a PvP game.
Are you serious? >.>

This is an MMO, and it's the sum of its parts. I spend most of my time these days soloing currency in Dynamis, that's not coop.

I think it sounds like a lot of fun (PvP is still the most fun I've had in this game, even though it wasn't implemented very well), and the fact that you don't want to be a part of it doesn't make it pointless. Just because PvP makes you feel uncomfortable or maybe you never learned to do it very well doesn't mean it just doesn't count as part of the game and no one else is allowed to enjoy it.

In my experience, this sums up most people's feelings about PvP in FFXI:

I'm not good at PvP...oh well, no one cares about PvP so it doesn't matter. Wait, you're doing PvP? Stop, no one cares about that.

Alhanelem

11-06-2011, 06:29 AM

I didn't dictate anything, it IS a coop game. Otherwise there would be more PvP then some random corner in some hole that no one has cared about for the last 5 years.

There would be more PvP if it was designed better and more rewarding. That said, there are people out there who enjoy it for what it is. That of course does not mean that the people who enjoy it now don't want it to be better or that it couldn't and shouldn't be made better. It can be and it should be, and if it was, more people would participate. I know many people who do not participate not because they don't like PvP, but because of certain specific flaws in the implementation (e.g. gearswap restrictions, lack of attention to balance after major content updates). FFXI is no more or less a "coop game" than any other MMO, whether or not it has PvP elements. WoW has lots of PvP- but it still has lots of PvE too and it's still a "coop game."

This from the kind of person who'd berate someone for their choice of sub?I don't berate people for their choice of sub normally. In fact, I'm probably the first one to encourage people to try atypical subs. The rare exception is usually in jest or one of the very few combinations that have no redeeming qualities whatsoever (Usually pet job/pet job)
Considering I didn't berate anyone for their choice of sub in this thread, or anytime recently that I can recall, I don't know why you're trying to troll me here.

Urteil

11-06-2011, 01:45 PM

There would be more PvP if it was designed better and more rewarding. That said, there are people out there who enjoy it for what it is. That of course does not mean that the people who enjoy it now don't want it to be better or that it couldn't and shouldn't be made better. It can be and it should be, and if it was, more people would participate. I know many people who do not participate not because they don't like PvP, but because of certain specific flaws in the implementation (e.g. gearswap restrictions, lack of attention to balance after major content updates). FFXI is no more or less a "coop game" than any other MMO, whether or not it has PvP elements. WoW has lots of PvP- but it still has lots of PvE too and it's still a "coop game."

I don't berate people for their choice of sub normally. In fact, I'm probably the first one to encourage people to try atypical subs. The rare exception is usually in jest or one of the very few combinations that have no redeeming qualities whatsoever (Usually pet job/pet job)
Considering I didn't berate anyone for their choice of sub in this thread, or anytime recently that I can recall, I don't know why you're trying to troll me here.

TLDR;

?

Alhanelem

11-06-2011, 01:50 PM

TLDR;

?
If you can't be bothered to read a post, don't comment on it.

Urteil

11-07-2011, 10:09 AM

Gearswaps aren't a flaw, its the only reason PvP works otherwise you can rotate perfect resistance setups.

PUP/SCH is one of the scariest things in the game.
SMN/SCH SMN/PLD

If jobs use the right gear vs their enemy they can remove many of the enfeebling options and strengths that jobs like RDM/BLM/BLU possess.

1v1 is more balanced than people try to give it credit for, a team of 6 people who are nearly invincible 1v1 will destroy any other team as they are individually powerful and together unstoppable.

Either way we had a huge turnout, the livestream was packed and the activity on FFXIAH was buzzing with positive reception.

As far as rewards go I gave away 2,000,000g, which seems pretty rewarding. Of course I furnished it myself, but its pennies to me - what do I care.

Alhanelem

11-07-2011, 10:12 AM

Gearswaps aren't a flaw, its the only reason PvP works otherwise you can rotate perfect resistance setups.Gearswap restrictions have absolutely NOTHING to do with "resistance setups" and everything to do with abuse of blinking to make it difficult for people to target you. That is the only reason the restriction exists.

1v1 is more balanced than people try to give it credit for, a team of 6 people who are nearly invincible 1v1 will destroy any other team as they are individually powerful and together unstoppable.This paragraph makes absolutely zero sense at all. You're right, a team of people who are good at 1v1ing are likely to have an advantage over a team of people who aren't. That doesn't suddenly make team tactics unimportant. It's the combination of both your individual skill and your ability to work with your team that will decide the outcome. Just like in PvE, the combination of jobs you have in your party and the cooperation between them makes a huge difference- I would argue a much greater difference than your capability of 1v1ing someone.

Play a real match of ballista with several people and watch the better co-ordnated team win, regardless of how much the warrior on one team walks all over the warrior on the other one.

PUP/SCH is one of the scariest things in the game.It's hard to take you serious when you say things like this. Now, I won't say it's terrible, but it sure doesn't scare me.

Leonlionheart

11-07-2011, 08:32 PM

Byrth

11-07-2011, 08:43 PM

Why don't you just go Ballista each other on the test server?

Alhanelem

11-08-2011, 03:21 AM

So many haters over here.
I'm not a hater. I love ballista. But I like ballista itself, not duels. Whether you're playing PvE or PvP, the game was built on and balanced around party mechanics more than most MMOs. You can't judge someone's worthiness on the outcome of a duel by itself, especially if it's not a mirror match (e.g. war vs war).

Why don't you just go Ballista each other on the test server? Dang, why didn't someone think of this sooner? The test server is the perfect way to PvP across worlds :p

Camate

11-09-2011, 08:16 AM

Can I play?

Put me in coach! :cool:

Mirage

11-09-2011, 08:25 AM

Can I play?

Put me in coach! :cool:

Only if you persuade the devs to make another ballista royale!

Camate

11-09-2011, 09:12 AM

Only if you persuade the devs to make another ballista royale!

I will do my best :)

May the odds be ever in your favor!

Ophannus

11-09-2011, 09:24 AM

Would be fun to fight a GM. Let's see what abilities a GM can really do, always wanted to see what it feels like to get hit by a Judge Sword.

Zaknafein

11-09-2011, 09:41 AM

Dang, why didn't someone think of this sooner? The test server is the perfect way to PvP across worlds :p

Perfect if you play on pc. Ps3, and lolbox users are SOL as usual.

Leonlionheart

11-09-2011, 10:05 AM

No one's ever on the test server, let alone willing to do ballista D:

Urteil

11-09-2011, 10:07 AM

I'm not a hater. I love ballista. But I like ballista itself, not duels. Whether you're playing PvE or PvP, the game was built on and balanced around party mechanics more than most MMOs. You can't judge someone's worthiness on the outcome of a duel by itself, especially if it's not a mirror match (e.g. war vs war).

Dang, why didn't someone think of this sooner? The test server is the perfect way to PvP across worlds :p

Yea you can, I fight many jobs and tailor my strategies appropriately to consistently come out on top.

Jobs considered to be superior.

Urteil

11-09-2011, 10:08 AM

Can I play?

Put me in coach! :cool:

Next time it happens make a mule on Phoenix and you can be the official Referee!

Urteil

11-09-2011, 10:08 AM

So many haters over here.

Personally I'd kill for a ballista event over on asura. Some people to practice on, etc.

Maybe not 1v1, or atleast not such a liberal 1v1. 3v3 and 6v6 would be hella fun in a tight space

Has no one suggested 1v1 w/ rules?
Jobs vs certain jobs I.E. Caster Vs Caster (RDM Vs NIN, PLD Vs BLU, etc) and DD Vs DD (WAR Vs DRG, DNC Vs MNK)
Limiting enfeeble casts (One sleep per match, two gravity, or no silence allowed)

Sure said rules would change strategies but it would level the playing field quite a bit. Kind of like any trading card game or fighting game, in tournaments there are things that are not allowed (See: Yu-Gi-Oh black hole).

I've personally aspired to be both unbeatable in 1v1 and the biggest attribute to my team I can be during team matches.

In a world where COR has a decent shot to take out BLU's and RDM's, you find that people like to make bold claims against a system they have little to no understanding in.

DRG isn't strictly a DD it can heal itself easily and sub mage to just have a very powerful edge.
Everyone who isn't total crap on a martial job is going to run /sch to get magicla utility and be immune to sleep while HP above 50%, DNC/SCH with a strong evasion build can dispel pressure, aspir, drain, and cure themselves nearly to outlast any job in the game.

Enfeebles Oh God What do I do:

They already have this, its called resistance gear to remove enfeebling strength, and diminishing returns on enfeebles. This gear is very potent and it is very easy to gear to be nearly immune to any job casting the enfeeble you target, with only a RDM having a chance and thats if they are gearing specifically to land, which opens them up to physical/magical damage and ruins their pdt/mdt options.

WAR and MNK have it rough, but MNK at least has the option of mitigating nearly all physical damage on most jobs, and the ability to run resist sets with obscene damage (Spharai etc.) and get magical utility to wipe stoneskin, erase itself, and put on the dispel pressure.

There's ensilence weapons that can be obtained that are potent.

WAR - I have some builds using /sch and mp merits and the natural retarded DPS and DA chance of the job, but I'd have to tool with it more.

I destroy RDM's on my DRK all the time and its not because I can enfeeble better, or cast faster than them.

Leonlionheart

11-09-2011, 10:12 AM

They already have this, its called resistance gear to remove enfeebling strength, and diminishing returns on enfeebles.

I destroy RDM's on my DRK all the time and its not because I can enfeeble better, or cast faster than them.

Cool, but I don't care what you can do.

Simply limiting the use of those spells would allow a much wider variation of sub jobs and gear selections that wouldn't gimp people's inventory in the real game on pieces of gear you use once in a blue moon

not everyone only has ONE job lololol

Urteil

11-09-2011, 10:17 AM

You do realize I could just abyssea burn my jobs and claim I have them all and nobody would really be the wiser? But instead I'll stick to my principles of never leveling I job I don't intend to be Godly at.

Which I am, but the day you see another one rise up past the level of 49 (55 for BLM) you'll know exactly what's going on.

*If you can't be bothered to use the gear for PvP, then you deserve to lose? If you don't think the gear is important why are you stupid enough to go PvP, or talk about it.

Either way it probably takes up a grand 15 slots in my Mog Safe. Derp.

You know what, just forget it, don't 1v1. It saves me a bunch of time.

Yea come referee Camate, I think it would be cool and please try to get Ballista Royale to come back!!.

Darkwizardzin

11-09-2011, 10:43 AM

Simply limiting the use of those spells would allow a much wider variation of sub jobs and gear selections that wouldn't gimp people's inventory in the real game on pieces of gear you use once in a blue moon

Why should spells be forced to have a casting limit if its easy to just get 2~3 pieces of gear to solve the enfeebles that cause the biggest issue for the DDs.

Forcing mages to gimp themselves doesn't have a point if there is an easy way to counter the "Overpowered" spells.

Leonlionheart

11-09-2011, 10:46 AM

Didn't say the gear wasn't important in a strictly PvP setting, but having to gear for enfeeb resists is kind of stupid when most people's inventories are overflowing anyway.

Let's be honest, if SE was to do nothing but update ballista for the next year, do you not think that Sleep, break, -ga versions, bind, gravity, and the like wouldn't be gimped to hell? At least the cooldown would be doubled/tripled to resemble a mere image of psuedo balance. Strictly in PvP anyway.

The point is, losing out on the head slot to equip a green ribbon significantly reduces the effectiveness of close range jobs compared to the mage variety.

At most from the loss of a head slot BLM would lose INT, Elemental Magic Skill (No one's missing nukes in PvP, trust me) or like 1/tick refresh. WAR loses either 4pdt/4haste, 8 haste, or amounts of HP, VIT, PDT, and Haste.

Alhanelem

11-09-2011, 10:51 AM

Yea you can, I fight many jobs and tailor my strategies appropriately to consistently come out on top.

Jobs considered to be superior.
The amount of strategy that needs to be applied in a typical 1v1 fight is minimal.

I fight many jobs and tailor my strategies appropriately. It's not possible for every job to come out consistently on top against every other job, unless the opponent is purposely not giving his best.

The game is not balanced for 1v1. It's balanced for team play.

1v1 does not accurately gauge a person's knowledge of their job or their ability to use the job's functions to their fullest. In a team fight, many of the jobs you are 1v1ing would not be doing what they would be doing in a 1v1, and yet they are in the end just as if not more effective overall. Seems to me you might be unable to coordnate a party to achieve the greatest effect in a team fight, which is a totally different and infinitely more interesting beast, no matter how you perform in 1v1.

Darkwizardzin

11-09-2011, 10:52 AM

Leonlionheart

11-09-2011, 10:53 AM

Still not fair to my inventory

Edit 2: point is it's a problem with Ballista and a big reason why people don't do it

Darkwizardzin

11-09-2011, 10:55 AM

Still not fair to my inventory

no ones forcing you to do pvp. If you don't want to invest in the gil and -1 invintorys for pvp gear then don't do it. no one is forcing you to.

Leonlionheart

11-09-2011, 10:58 AM

no ones forcing you to do pvp. If you don't want to invest in the gil and -1 invintorys for pvp gear then don't do it. no one is forcing you to.

What if I do want to do it, don't care about the gil investment, but don't have 8 inventory slots to fill with resist gears?

Also, it's not like any of these gears are available often, if ever, on the AH or at NPCs. Let alone mats to make them.

Darkwizardzin

11-09-2011, 11:06 AM

What if I do want to do it, don't care about the gil investment, but don't have 8 inventory slots to fill with resist gears?

Also, it's not like any of these gears are available often, if ever, on the AH or at NPCs. Let alone mats to make them.

....well all I'm saying is the rules for a pvp setup shouldn't be set based on "a person's lack of inventory".

Also you can always farm the mats and find crafters... it's not an impossible problem to overcome.

Sesh

11-09-2011, 11:22 AM

The amount of strategy that needs to be applied in a typical 1v1 fight is minimal.

I fight many jobs and tailor my strategies appropriately. It's not possible for every job to come out consistently on top against every other job, unless the opponent is purposely not giving his best.

The game is not balanced for 1v1. It's balanced for team play.

1v1 does not accurately gauge a person's knowledge of their job or their ability to use the job's functions to their fullest. In a team fight, many of the jobs you are 1v1ing would not be doing what they would be doing in a 1v1, and yet they are in the end just as if not more effective overall. Seems to me you might be unable to coordnate a party to achieve the greatest effect in a team fight, which is a totally different and infinitely more interesting beast, no matter how you perform in 1v1.

I agree with this. A 1v1 battle doesn't determine ones "skill" on a job it really only shows their level of commitment to PvP. If you're a casual to once every 6 month PvPer, and you fight someone who tries their best to pvp every single day obviously the person who does it every single day is going to win. Why? Practice, macros, pvp gear, and overall preparedness.

Winning a fight in pvp against players that haven't taken the time to make macros without gear swaps, or get resistance gear or what have you is not an accomplishment, nor does it say anything about that players ability to use that job for the 99% of the content in the game that isn't PvP. At most, all that can be said is when it comes to 1v1 pvp 99.9% of the time the least lazy player wins which for some I guess makes them feel special.

As for ballista that isn't 1v1 based, who here used to ballista 7 years ago? Remember when agas didn't take shadows? Or when kraken club rngs we're wreaking havoc on everyone because they could sidewinder for full dmg 2 yalms away from you. Or those damn galka warriors and mnks>.> atleast for me, I can't remember his name, but I had one I especially loathed in particular. Group ballista brings such a different dynamic to light over 1v1, because it's about the actual game of ballista or brenner rather than epeen.

Alhanelem

11-09-2011, 12:15 PM

Let's be honest, if SE was to do nothing but update ballista for the next year, do you not think that Sleep, break, -ga versions, bind, gravity, and the like wouldn't be gimped to hell?Sleep and debuffs in general are already nerfed compared to PvE. There are caps on duration and you build resistance if hit with the same effect multiple times. (I'd argue the sleep duration limit should be lowered further though- sleep II basically eliminates you from the entire duration of some team fights unless you're poisoned)

Anyway- For me, it's the actual game of ballista that is fun. I like to have an objective to go with the combat. Brenner would have been a lot better if it was just flat out CTF without having to beat up the torch things.

Creelo

11-09-2011, 12:18 PM

I will do my best :)

May the odds be ever in your favor!

The Hunger Games. @____________________________@

Leonlionheart

11-09-2011, 12:28 PM

Sleep and debuffs in general are already nerfed compared to PvE. There are caps on duration and you build resistance if hit with the same effect multiple times. (I'd argue the sleep duration limit should be lowered further though- sleep II basically eliminates you from the entire duration of some team fights unless you're poisoned)

Anyway- For me, it's the actual game of ballista that is fun. I like to have an objective to go with the combat. Brenner would have been a lot better if it was just flat out CTF without having to beat up the torch things.

I agree with you for once, ballista beats the crap out of 1v1 in terms of how enjoyable it is. Balance is much more apparent, though still not close to really balanced. Team fights are always so much fun.

Urteil

11-09-2011, 12:51 PM

Anyone who doesn't say 1v1 doesn't involve skill has never battled a Red Mage.

The materials aren't available, they are easy to get the hardest one probably being Flawless Ribbon - Derp Limbus.

Since you don't want to put i the effort to be the best, leave being the best to the people who can afford inventory slots etc. and kindly sit down.

Hilarious cop outs, are cop outs.

But this doesn't take away from Team play being great too, I wish team play would come back in full swing.

Urteil

11-09-2011, 12:52 PM

Winning a fight in pvp against players that haven't taken the time to make macros without gear swaps, or get resistance gear or what have you is not an accomplishment, nor does it say anything about that players ability to use that job for the 99% of the content in the game that isn't PvP. At most, all that can be said is when it comes to 1v1 pvp 99.9% of the time the least lazy player wins which for some I guess makes them feel special.

Yea winning a fight against retards isn't an accomplishment.

Why was this idiot PvPing in the first place?

You mean the least lazy player would have the tools to be good?

Leonlionheart

11-09-2011, 01:23 PM

Yea winning a fight against retards isn't an accomplishment.

Why was this idiot PvPing in the first place?

You mean the least lazy player would have the tools to be good?

Too bad for you he's right

Urteil

11-09-2011, 02:07 PM

He's right that lazy people who are stupid enough to think that without getting gear for something they can be good, are shit? When that gear on the average is marginally easier?

Yea he is right.

Yea. Why are people who don't want to procure the gear even competing.

You don't not get PvE gear then go PvE.

These copouts are hilarious. But yes he is right. Lazy people fail at everything.

Sesh

11-09-2011, 02:10 PM

Why was this idiot PvPing in the first place?

Some people actually just want to have fun XD. Some people don't care if they win our lose it's just something to do that's different and catches their eye. Some people have never tried ballista/brenner/pvp before and thought it was time to try. Who knows... why does someone have to be an idiot to want to pvp? Or to do anything at all in a game they pay for each month? Just because you're not the best at something doesn't mean you're not eligible to participate.

You mean the least lazy player would have the tools to be good?

All players have the tools to be good, most just tend to move on with their respective FFXI lives and focus on goals that are important to them. PvP, while fun (and deserving of more support by SE) is not important enough to warrant the enthusiasm or effort you put in towards PvP by most FFXI players.

Alhanelem

11-09-2011, 02:13 PM

Anyone who doesn't say 1v1 doesn't involve skill has never battled a Red Mage.going against RDM is more about patience than skill. Takes a while to bring one down :p

two PLDs can take forever lol

Urteil

11-09-2011, 02:16 PM

Who says they can't participate? Of course they can.

The idiot is the person complaining about something when they don't get the gear, refuse to work at something, and then fail and are disgruntled.

All players don't have the tools to be good, which consist of attitude and determination, because there is this complaint about having to work at the gear needed and system in the first place.

And I don't expect any of them to win then, and they shouldn't be upset, surprised, or mad at the system.

I'm all about PvPing for fun but if you're doing it for "fun" then you give up any and all claim to validating or invalidating the system.

Urteil

11-09-2011, 02:19 PM

going against RDM is more about patience than skill. Takes a while to bring one down :p

two PLDs can take forever lol

It's definitely about buff removal, enfeebling evasion, and MP removal. A RDM fights through strong DoT damage and magic damage with powerful mp recovery that does not rely on offensive casting.

Jobs need to capitalize on strong burst damage and landing key enfeebles of their own, forcing the RDM on the defensive and overwhelming them quickly.

The longer a RDM fight goes on the more enfeebles that are landed, and a lot of jobs have a hard time sustaining themselves versus the DoT damage and recovery battles against a RDM.

The longer one fights a RDM the more slated they are to lose. The battle of patience is in the favor of the RDM, not a person fighting it, which is what I was talking about.

Leonlionheart

11-09-2011, 02:53 PM

The idiot is the personwho honestly thinks people who don't do PvP suck at ffxi. That's truly idiotic with PvP at the stage it is in FFXI.

I actually have quite a bit of resist gear now that I think about it simply from augmented aby items. Some that don't even appear on gear otherwise. Would I like to go into a PvP match and use offensive gear on an offensive job to augment it's role? Yes. Should that be an option? It should. There aren't many popular MMO's without good PvP anymore, and it's not like you even have to PvP in the first place. Increasing the interest in PvP would only bring more subscriptions, or more players back who loved it when it was more popular. So I arrive on my next point

@SE:
Consider this: A Ballista Moogle in each of the three main cities. Has a "Ballista Locker" for specific Ballista items and gear or just make a Ballista porter slip. Another good alternative would be a second inventory and equipment screen specifically for PvP, but that's starting to ask a lot.

Ballista Gear:
"Damage Mage Hat"
[Head] All Races
DEF:10~28 HP+10 MP+20
Latent Effect: HP+1% MP+2%
INT+1~6 "Magic Atk. Bonus" +0~5
Enfeebling Magic Skill +1~8
Enhances "Resist Silence" +1~5
LV 30 All Jobs
Cost: X Ballista Points(or whatever currency you want)(Latent active during ballista/brenner)

How hard is it to put in the numbers to a spread sheet for the gear, I mean honestly. I should think you put one dev on this task for about a day and he could finish it. Balance wise all this gear should be is existing gear that fits the job, with bonuses like "Reduces stun duration" or "Reduces Shield Bash recast" and more HP/MP/Regen/Refresh. You could fix a ton of balance issues through equipment (kind of like how this is done for PvE anyway)

How hard is it to make a moogle, and a vendor for this gear?

Just by adding gear specifically built for PvP think about all the people who have now gained interest in the event (Give it some sexy skins and there will be people who want it just for that). Think about the time they can now sink into PvP.

Of course there will be people who say "FFXI IS NOT FOR PVP, IF I WANTED PVP I'D GO PLAY LoL OR SOMETHING," but it's not like they have to do it. PvP gear would be useless in PvE.

This is probably falling on deaf ears, but it's been something I've wanted for FFXI for a while.

Edit: Also, "Request Teleportation" to current Ballista matches at the moogle?

Sesh

11-09-2011, 03:38 PM

I think first and foremost they have update the current ballista system. At the height of its popularity very very few players did 30, 40, or 50 cap official daily tournaments. Most of the popularity was 60 cap and 75 cap, but players ended up having to wait entire days for the 30-50 program to get done. Once the good caps came around it was usually 2 in the morning, which was fine because we loved ballista, but eventually enthusiasm to stay up late for the dying event was quenched.

They need to add a few things to really make ballista boom again in my eyes. Either new zones that focus on high cap pvp all the time, or change the current rotation to 60, 75, 85, 95, etc cap. New zones would be more effective though, if they were high traffic zones, it would attract a crowd for people to watch. There also needs to be an incentive for players to spend their time in ballista, 250k ballista points for comet or thunder V etc. would entice new players to try it and old players to dust off their weapons. Throw what Leon is talking about as well, and we could very well see a ballista revival.

Leonlionheart

11-09-2011, 03:57 PM

I agree with you about the cap changes.

The sad thing is that the current dev team completely ignores ballista, or is told to ignore it.

Even if this got player backing it would take over 6 months (more probably) to even start thinking about this as their current schedule is filled with VW updates, level 99, and old endgame updates like limbus, einherjar, nyzul, and salvage.

Really wish SE would give the FFXI dev's a leg to stand on

Draylo

11-09-2011, 04:56 PM

I honestly believe PVP revamp would greatly enhance the longevity of this game.

Alhanelem

11-09-2011, 05:56 PM

I'm totally all for special gear rewards for ballista (as long as those rewards are mainly effective *in* ballista, or help you participate (e.g. a teleport-to-next-match ring), or something that's purely for show, or something that may be useful outside but is for conveinence/utility, rather than power.

The only thing I spend ballista points on is opening Diorama Ghelsba. It would be really nice to have even a minor tangible reward available, it would have a potentially significant impact on participation.

I also agree that the lowest-level caps should be removed, and only have 60/75/no cap.

Also make the quest for license optional (and have it grant the ability to use the functional key items as a reward). It's a needless barrier to entry.

SNK

11-09-2011, 11:07 PM

I will do my best :)

May the odds be ever in your favor!

I would totally support another royale.

Urteil

11-12-2011, 05:20 AM

who honestly thinks people who don't do PvP suck at ffxi. That's truly idiotic with PvP at the stage it is in FFXI.

I actually have quite a bit of resist gear now that I think about it simply from augmented aby items. Some that don't even appear on gear otherwise. Would I like to go into a PvP match and use offensive gear on an offensive job to augment it's role? Yes. Should that be an option? It should. There aren't many popular MMO's without good PvP anymore, and it's not like you even have to PvP in the first place. Increasing the interest in PvP would only bring more subscriptions, or more players back who loved it when it was more popular. So I arrive on my next point

@SE:
Consider this: A Ballista Moogle in each of the three main cities. Has a "Ballista Locker" for specific Ballista items and gear or just make a Ballista porter slip. Another good alternative would be a second inventory and equipment screen specifically for PvP, but that's starting to ask a lot.

Ballista Gear:
"Damage Mage Hat"
[Head] All Races
DEF:10~28 HP+10 MP+20
Latent Effect: HP+1% MP+2%
INT+1~6 "Magic Atk. Bonus" +0~5
Enfeebling Magic Skill +1~8
Enhances "Resist Silence" +1~5
LV 30 All Jobs
Cost: X Ballista Points(or whatever currency you want)(Latent active during ballista/brenner)

How hard is it to put in the numbers to a spread sheet for the gear, I mean honestly. I should think you put one dev on this task for about a day and he could finish it. Balance wise all this gear should be is existing gear that fits the job, with bonuses like "Reduces stun duration" or "Reduces Shield Bash recast" and more HP/MP/Regen/Refresh. You could fix a ton of balance issues through equipment (kind of like how this is done for PvE anyway)

How hard is it to make a moogle, and a vendor for this gear?

Just by adding gear specifically built for PvP think about all the people who have now gained interest in the event (Give it some sexy skins and there will be people who want it just for that). Think about the time they can now sink into PvP.

Of course there will be people who say "FFXI IS NOT FOR PVP, IF I WANTED PVP I'D GO PLAY LoL OR SOMETHING," but it's not like they have to do it. PvP gear would be useless in PvE.

This is probably falling on deaf ears, but it's been something I've wanted for FFXI for a while.

Edit: Also, "Request Teleportation" to current Ballista matches at the moogle?

In a team match your desire is highly plausible if you have about 3 other people to support you, if you can pull this off go for it, is it the inferior choice? Depends completely on the setup.

In WoW you never have to PvP, they cater even more to PvE players by having two different gear sets, on my Deathknight I certainly have PvP armor from the current season, and PvE armor for raiding. You don't mix them, totally separate and since the "Go Play WoW" is always brought up, the reality is you 'never' have to PvP ever, if you don't want.

If you want to use the wrong gear for the wrong situation that's your choice but prepare to lose.

Just as there is wrong choices for all the things you do in PvE in PvP there are wrong choices and right choices.

Not different choices. Wrong choices, and right choices.

How can you quote one fraction of a sentence of a post, somehow think that holds validity, and then say you want to use the wrong gear for the job, and somehow you should be rewarded for victory?

If you want to go full DD setup go to a team match but you'll probably die because of no PDT and gearing totally wrong, just like how in PvE you can gear wrong during TP/WS.

You want to be rewarded for doing things incorrectly, so yes you have the option to be wrong and die easily.

The idiot option is picking the wrong gear and expecting to be rewarded with positive results, all I've heard is: I don't have inventory space, and, I don't have any idea what I'm doing but I still want to talk about how the system should be changed.

Yet you keep talking about Balance issues, weaving in and out of 1v1 and team scenarios, when you my good sir quite frankly haven't the slightest clue as to what you are talking about.

In a game where Corsair mostly thought of a back-line support job has an amazing chance at taking out even RDM's and DD's if executed to perfection - I think that's a pretty damn good system.

Feel free to exercise your 'option.'

Alhanelem

11-12-2011, 07:39 AM

Not really sure what your post has to do with the post you quoted. All I see is a suggestion that tangible rewards be offered for ballista as an attraction to those who might not otherwise participate. There are those of us who would like to see Ballista develop a bit more and not be seen as just a little minigame to smack your best friend around in.

As you pointed out, PvE and PvP in WoW each offer gear that is most desireable to the relevant crowd, and the best PvP gear is not the best PvE gear or vice versa. It's perfectly possible to have nice rewards for participation without them being out of balance with everything else.

Leonlionheart

11-12-2011, 09:28 AM

Well glad you replied, but again you didn't really say anything new.

Gearing for the situation is great, but what I'm trying to go for is situations where DD gear is actually useful and not completely stupid to use. 1v1 it's almost never useful (almost impossible for jobs without silence/sleep/gravity/bind/petrify to win, since kite/nuke will generally beat any DD) to gear for DD in most slots.

Another issue: how is it not a flaw that you have to gear for your opponent 1v1? There are way too many situations for balance to be possible in 1v1. Can be useful in 3v3+ but again depends on your party members and targets. The issue with gear is this: You have to gimp your DD output in several important slots to gain a chance to resist something that may or may not even be used in the fight, depending on the target. If the target has half a brain he can find ways around that particular defense. Pretty much impossible for certain DD jobs to beat RDM or BLM 1v1 (probably why SE hasn't installed a 1v1 system officially, since it's completely biased). In these matches you can't gear for MDT or MDB because you'll get ripped apart by enfeebs/DoTs, if you gear for enfeebs you'll get ripped apart by a good kite/nuke strategy.

What I'm trying to say is that this game needs gear specifically for PvP. Or did you miss the 95% of that post that wasn't pointing out your insane and stupid opinions on FFXI PvP? Silly to argue this stuff with you when you think the system is amazing and flawless because jobs that are lackluster in PvE are amazing in PvP, FYI that doesn't make balance in either PvE or PvP, as, like you and I both agree, they are different events.

Who can possibly think that a gearing system specifically for FFXI PvP is a bad idea? At minimum there would need to be 3 sets and various accessories, at maximum there would be a tiering system for your level in Ballista (not practical at the moment because the event isn't exactly popular).

With gear designed for PvP, and only obtainable through PvP, you could have stats like Haste +5%, Damage Taken -5% and Resist Sleep on a single piece and not have it be COMPLETELY overpowered in PvE.

Can't believe you're disputing this simply because I think you're a total tard

Alhanelem

11-12-2011, 11:03 AM

+1 for good, intelligent suggestions.

Now there are certain things we will fundamentally disagree on, but you're pretty much spot on here.

I just wish the community team would weigh in on this issue or at least let us know they've forwarded our feedback.

A little shot in the arm could do wonders for Conflict.

Leonlionheart

11-12-2011, 11:25 AM

Urteil

11-13-2011, 06:03 PM

Honestly gear is pretty much what propels players in this game at this point. I mean look at sky, before augments (after aby ofc) no one did it. Now it's actually very profitable to simply farm pops and sell in your bazaar again.

Why don't people do Ballista? Nothing rewarding but a sense of epeen that doesn't really matter elsewhere in the game. Put gear in there, boom. It would be flooded with interested players.

Most people who actually give PvP a shot are astounded by how fun it is, there's just nothing pushing players into it.

And as far as SE adding gear etc? Cool I guess but it would be nice if they put things in to ballista like massive amounts of cruor/exp/cosmetic items/useful teleports/a point system that allows you to obtain PvE gear/that wouldn't take away the need for people to go into PvE and pursue better gear. This way the game can use PvP to be an extension of PvE.

I hope they do add something, whether its titles, neat consumables, some type of gear. But then probably that gear would just be useful in PvP and that wouldn't bring anyone running over. For PvP to be popular especially on the scale you are advocating the reward needs to be applicable to the rest of the game. Oddly enough PvE gear is good PvP gear you just have to know what you are doing.

PvE gear is amazing PvP gear, and there is gear that is often overlooked and never used that finds amazing uses in PvP. What you want is a specific set of equipment just for PvP and I'm simply saying that it isn't truly necessary as these niche pieces of gear already exist. Just look for them.

There are pieces like Mekogai, twilight, alot of the AF2 etc. which you can then modulate your gear with these odd pieces to cover your ass, and the awesome thing is they aren't too terribly hard to obtain.

"How is it not a flaw that you have to gear for your specific enemy:"

Are you kidding? Picking the right tool for the job is a basic skill we do every day when creating gear sets, this is just an extension of that.

Your entire argument is based on your laziness and wanting to wear full DD gear in situations that don't call for it. In PvE you change your gear for the right situation and you meet failure when using the wrong gear.

All I hear is "I can't do this." "I don't want to gear properly." "I don't know what the hell I am doing."

Its really funny when I know a few warriors who do very well with hybrid setups /sch and use their retalatino and varied gear matchups to overcome this weakness. And in TvT they gear for straight DD but even then use pdt/mdt. Again they

You are by far the most incompetent PvP'er on the planet and yet act like your opinion should be taken seriously when you say the most amateur, dipshit things I've ever seen.

I don't think you PvP because if you followed 1/10 of your own advice or anyone did, they'd achieve such terrible results its not suprising why they would want to quit or hate the system.

Urteil

11-13-2011, 06:21 PM

Increasing interest in PvP is as simple as added the ability to select:

Seals, +2 Jewels/Cards/Stones, 15 AC to each member of winning team, 50,000 Cruor to each member of winning team, cosmetic(aura/title/name changing color).

If they added things similar to these it would instantly become popular again without any other adjustments being needed. (Although, those would be nice.)

Leonlionheart

11-13-2011, 08:12 PM

Leonlionheart

11-13-2011, 08:20 PM

You are by far the most incompetent PvP'er on the planet and yet act like your opinion should be taken seriously when you say the most amateur, dipshit things I've ever seen.

I don't think you PvP because if you followed 1/10 of your own advice or anyone did, they'd achieve such terrible results its not suprising why they would want to quit or hate the system.

I don't know how you came to this conclusion, I essentially agree with you as the game is right now. I'm not telling anyone to not gear for the situation. If you're fighting a RDM by all means use enfeebling resist gear. Bummer you're losing out on all that MDT cause they can nuke too. Hell the good ones can CDC your face.

I'm saying it shouldn't have to be that way.

Also, 1v1 is stupid. You're stupid for thinking it's balanced. Whoever was fighting those WARs is stupid for even giving them a chance. It's incredibly easy to take down a WAR in 1v1 for any mage, including NIN. DD v DD is a completely different game though.

Urteil

11-13-2011, 08:39 PM

I don't know how you came to this conclusion, I essentially agree with you as the game is right now. I'm not telling anyone to not gear for the situation. If you're fighting a RDM by all means use enfeebling resist gear. Bummer you're losing out on all that MDT cause they can nuke too. Hell the good ones can CDC your face.

I'm saying it shouldn't have to be that way.

Also, 1v1 is stupid. You're stupid for thinking it's balanced. Whoever was fighting those WARs is stupid for even giving them a chance. It's incredibly easy to take down a WAR in 1v1 for any mage, including NIN. DD v DD is a completely different game though.

The game isn't /really/ balanced anywhere, you think its better on the team v team level? One word: Corsair.

The fact is that many jobs can overcome other mage jobs that aren't strictly mages, Samurai is an excellent example, Corsair, Spharai Monk, Dark Knight, Paladin, Ninja.

Why would a RDM be going toe to toe with a good DRK or WAR, not very smart especially if they can put Dispel pressure and have a relic/high end weapon with the ever looming fear of WS. And retaliation would murder them.

Yes you just implied that a RDM would walk up to a warrior and eat retaliations with weapons in the 130+DMG range.

CDC? Who the fuck uses CDC in PvP, Sanguine Blade or go home, on RDM death Blossom for magic evasion down.

. . .

In reality its incredibly easy to take you down, warrior with sublimation, resist break and fighting in light arts to erase gravity etc itself has incredible Zerg potential. Slot in haste easily with 2x +3 resist earrings, and the simple use of MP merits and minimal gear can allow /sch's natural mp levels the Warrior a lot of breathing room especially if the enemy can't aspir back.

You don't want to use the right gear, you don't want to use MP merits. Then lose. You lose. Too bad, you didn't augment yourself correctly. Its your fault. However for a Warrior with Bravura, and top end gear and (here's the hard part) knows how to use it, its not /as/ hopeless as it seems. Hard? Yes, yes it is.

What, you don't gear specifically for PvE? Are you honestly saying that its stupid that you have to choose specific gear in specific situations? . . .

Warrior can progress very well against any DD job as they cannot be easily evaded in full accuracy gear, Retaliation cannot be countered, and the 2handed formula favors them like SAM and DRK for kicking evasion based jobs in the ass.

I agree warrior has it rough, but many jobs don't nearly have it quite as bad. Perhaps its warrior that needs specific attention, and I agree it does. Warrior honestly is kind of boring and while it does good damage (and it should its ALL the job has) I think it would benefit from some JA / trait buffs that gave it utility.

And even then that's 19/20. Pretty nice if you ask me.

Urteil

11-13-2011, 08:47 PM

How is it not a flaw that you have to gear for your opponent?

That's like playing Pokemon TCG and knowing that your opponent has a Water deck so you stack your deck with Thunder types. Seriously, it's actually cheating in competitions.

I have the gear, I've used the gear. Doesn't mean it's right that it has to be that way, or a good thing in any way.

Shooting for one piece benefits several situations for both mages and melees separately, made for PvP from SE; what's your issue with that?

The only equivalent we have here as far as your deck vs. deck thing goes - is you know the job of your enemy.

I don't have an issue with it, as long as the gear is useful in PvE too and doesn't only activate in PvP - you want to make one an extension of the other where the balancing comes into play with abilities/spells being modulated in the specific environment in which PvP happens.

Really though, I've been saying Warrior needs something nice for years, but if you really want to win on a DD try Samurai.

One day I sincerely hope through ingenious JA's, raw damage, or through WS updates they will get a GA WS that silences and addles, and stuns the enemy for a severe beat down.

I've never felt pride about killing a warrior and we both would agree rightly so, I'm more concerned with RDM, BLU, BLM, and Paladins with Aegis/Burtgang. Those are the enemies that I am concerned with fighting.

I would go so far as to give Warrior native regain, I am far more in your camp than you realize.

Alhanelem

11-14-2011, 04:48 AM

In most cases, skill can triumph over a gear difference. The alleged impact of gear is why everyone thinks 60 cap is better. In reality the balance is not that much different at no cap, with a few easily fixed exceptions. One of those exceptions (a weakness) was addressed (PUP) with the introduction of Deus Ex Automata at an early level, so that you don't have to go without your automaton for half the match if you get KO'd. BLU might be somewhat disproportionately strong uncapped, though there are still strategies to deal with it, especially in team fights- And I think the only real reason for this was they havnen't considered the new spells added since 75 cap.

I will continue to maintain and state that all of FFXI, whether it be PvE or PvP, was built to be a team game, and your ability to perform in 1v1 does not translate 100% into an ability to perform in team fights or in the game of ballista itself.