[DEV 1035] Puppetmaster changes

[Etrigan]

First off Love the changes, but there are a few things I think could be improved upon.

add Phalanx and Stoneskin to the Soulsoother C-1000 head (or at least stoneskin if going with the argument of Phalanx = rdm / pld spell)

the only other thing is that the Stormwaker Y-700 Head seems to spam through spells, I figured this would happen and it is happening in accordance with the new spell casting rules. I get a buff, then a cure, then debuffs the mob, then nukes, and then typically throws several debuffs at the mob until another timer is ready to be used.

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Semi Related
Possibly add an ability and item combo that makes the next spell AOE. This would work great for Buffs and Nukes alike. With the item it would go in the Ammo slot (where we keep our oils), consume one each time we use the ja or however you want to do it, and say doubles the MP cost. ( Would love to be able to give parties AOE Phalanx and Stoneskin )

That's all I had time to play around with this morning, I will be looking at the Sharpshot, Valoredge, and Harlequin frames this evening.

again Thank you for these changes.

*edit* forgot to mention Absorb-Attri shows in the log as (magic 243)

*edit 2* removed brain fart information for perfectionists

[Dfoley]

I dont mind the spammy nature honestly. DAD still works so the extra debuffs and buffs are very welcome.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Phalanx isn't a SCH spell, sub-job does not make it belong to said job.

[Etrigan]

Phalanx isn't a SCH spell, sub-job does not make it belong to said job.

so sue me for having a brain fart :P

[Daniel_Hatcher]

so sue me for having a brain fart :P

Consider it done. :)

[bliz1643]

Just wanted to say Thanks to the team for making Pup Better <3 the changes... :)

[xiozen]

Tested and approved. This is the way puppetmaster should have been from the beginning... some observations from a few hours of testing:

ValorEdge (Head/Body) tanked extremely well. Barely took any damage, most of the hits were "0" using Analyzer, Armor I/II, BarrierModule and Equalizer
It appears the best combination to solo with is the Stormwaker, believe it or not... that frame/head combination gives the Master (Stoneskin,Phalanx, Protect, Shell, and Haste), as well as casts Tier IV spells (I believe it also casts Thunder V)
Haven't experience this yet but the Spiritweaver Head/Harly body casts Dreadspikes, but only on itself, not the Master.
Whitemage frame doesn't appear to cast stoneskin on the master--but as usual it can cast up to Cure VI and Addle.

Still have to experiment with the Sharpshot frame and even more w/ Spiritweaver.

So far... all WIN....

Possible issue: Harly head/Harly Body doesn't appear to cast spells "AT ALL"... could be wrong but this may need to be revisited.

[Shinron-PUP]

I think pretty much everything from this update is perfect for puppetmaster and should be implemented as soon as possible, but just three issues that I see that should be patched up is:

*Making it so that when equiping Harliquin Head to either Harliquin Frame or Stormwaker frame, it can cast.

*When Harliquin Head can cast, adding Dread Spikes to it also.

*Making it so that Dread Spikes is prioritized over Absorb-Int as the first spell casted by Black Mage pet and Harliquin Frame + Black Mage Head

Square Enix did a fantastic job turning the job around, and now we can actually say it's a formidable and versitile job on the battlefield.

[Kysaiana]

I can attest to Harlequin not casting anything with any combo of attachments or lack there of.

The AI is vastly improved compared to what it was. My only issue is that there is now no way to prioritize cure spells since they changed the nature of the attachment. I grabbed a bunch of dolls in sky and let them beat me down to red HP and my auto decided I needed haste instead of a cure with nothing but a light maneuver up.

Over all, though, I'm very pleased with the changes.

[xbobx]

"*Making it so that Dread Spikes is prioritized over Absorb-Int as the first spell casted by Black Mage pet and Harliquin Frame + Black Mage Head"

Please disregard this idea, Dread spikes is a defensive spell, absorb Int is offense, Offense for more dmg/less resistance first, dread spikes when it takes hate.

[Theytak]

"*Making it so that Dread Spikes is prioritized over Absorb-Int as the first spell casted by Black Mage pet and Harliquin Frame + Black Mage Head"

Please disregard this idea, Dread spikes is a defensive spell, absorb Int is offense, Offense for more dmg/less resistance first, dread spikes when it takes hate.
I was going to disagree at first, but then I remembered that now that the global recast has been reduced and that dark and elemental magic should theoretically have separated timers, absorb int won't be totally useless for increasing damage. Before, since a lot of the benefit would decay before you ever actually got a nuke off, there was no point to it, but now since you can theoretically get 3 ice maneuvers up within 10 seconds of casting absorb int, it actually has a use, other than lowering the target's int for your blm buddies' e-peen nukes, lol

[Kaisha]

Dunno about you guys, but I really feel they should make Pro/Shell master-only, it'll be an MP sink otherwise. That or make it the ~ra version.

Shame that's not the only problem with the job, the spell priorities are way out of whack.

[Treyd]

Dunno about you guys, but I really feel they should make Pro/Shell master-only, it'll be an MP sink otherwise. That or make it the ~ra version.

Shame that's not the only problem with the job, the spell priorities are way out of whack.

From what I remember hearing, the auto only casts Protect/Shell on others with a Water Maneuver active so it should be a non-issue. I like have the option to buff others.

That aside, I also just wanted to chime in and say that so far I am loving most of the changes to the attachments/AI. Soulsoother actually feels like a useful tool rather than a buggy gimmicky Cure VI bot. That isn't to say that it's perfect. Status cures STILL come before Cures, and under certain circumstances the puppet gets a little Erase happy...

Even if the changes make it through as is... It is still a huge step in the right direction. Now to test RDM frame...

[Nezha]

Automaton Functionality Change Suggestions:

-Issue where when Harlequin Head is equipped with Harlequin Frame or Stormwaker Frame, it does not cast magic.

-Issue where Soulsoother prioritizes Erase/-na over Cure, when masters HP is red.

-Issue where Soulsoother continually cast Erase in an attempt to remove Sleep status effect (which does not work) or to remove "Aura" type status ailments.

-Issue where Stormwaker prioritizes Stoneskin over Cure, when masters HP is red.

-Issue where Soulsoother and Stormwaker continually cast Silence on mobs (with MP) that do not cast magic.

-Issue where Spiritreaver uses Absorb-Attri to absorb and override one of his enhancements for a (usually weaker) enhancement (i.e. Casts Dreadspikes => Casts Absorb-Attri => Gains Blaze Spikes [10-15 dmg spikes])

-Making it so that Stormwaker ONLY cast elemental magic while under the effect of Ice Maneuver ( because of their long casting times and for the sake of MP conservation and hate control)

Attachment Related Change Suggestions:

-Extending the current effect of equalizer to Magical Damage, recalculating the current effect of equalizer, or repurposing Equalizer all together, so it isn't completely overshadowed by Armor Plate I/II

Additional (but not dire) Suggestion: (Me being hopeful)

-Adding Dark Magic (Dread Spikes) and/or ranged attacks to Harlequin Frame and or revamping him in a way that makes him a inticing option (aka Onion Knight Frame).

-Providing another means of prioritizing Automaton TP Abilities outside of Elemental Maneuvers (Possibly Non Elemental Maneuvers [Offensive/Defensive Maneuver], or a TP ability setting menu.

-Strengthening Cannibal Blade or adding an occasional "Drain" effect to Shield Bash while equpped with the "Hammermill" attachment instead of Slow effect and/or 100% Shield Bash Accuracy (In general, any alternative means to heal Valoredge Frame [Current Options: Cannibal Blade, Repair, Role Reversal, and maybe Auto Repair Kit I/II, if you count/use those as a serious means of keeping Valoredge alive]).

[Kiakasha]

-Issue where when Harlequin Head is equipped with Harlequin Frame or Stormwaker Frame, it does not cast magic.

I noticed this also, will test more later.

[Dfoley]

Okay wtf. I have to rant about the still terrible ai.

1) Global recast is 10 seconds
2) Cure recast is 15 seconds
3) Enfeeble recast is 10 seconds
4) -na and enhancing are taking priority over healing

This is all just unacceptable.

There is 0 point in a 15s recast timer on cure when the global recast is 10 seconds.
You will see cure(wait 10)>enfeeble(wait 10)>cure(wait 10)

Even with damage guage on, you cannot get cure to 10 seconds or lower, and thus cure will always be 20 seconds apart.

CURE NEEDS TO PRIORITIZE OVER EVERYTHING. I dont know how many times we need to say it, but cure needs to be the number 1 priority. I dont care if the global recast timer is up,


If I am at 20% hp and cure is 2 seconds away...dont cast an enfeeble/enhancing/na...wait 2 seconds then cast cure
If I am at 20% hp and cure/na/enhancing/enfeebling are all available (regardless of attachments) cure needs to take priority.
There needs to be a way to turn enfeebling off on the WHM or RDM pet, I would suggest damage gauge attachment +1 or more light maneuvers stops all enfeebles (sorry dia, if we want you, we wont use damage gauge)

[Stigmar]

Tested the new changes last night pretty impressed valoredge was able to sit and tank a nm with a couple of oils tossed on it and replicator on 3 wind manas, my only concern is with the buffs haste protect shell i feel atleast haste should be under a wind trigger rather than a light trigger I am going to test later if the bug of it casting silence on a mob with mp which does not cast is still there and the bug where if your emfeb and down to say 1 hp, will it cast cure or status removal.

Also Maintance am not really sure if this any use as repair as far as am aware did remove status debuffs could of just been sleep but perhaps why not just make it Repair II with Curing that frame and removing the debuffs at the same time would save wasting 2 oils and just use the one, I will give it more of a play around later today but i get the feeling it will end up like cool down total waste of a ability (I still believe cool down should be a lvl 30 - 40 ability)

All in all puppetmaster get ready to hear every other job complain about how over powered we are because we get no love anyway lol

[Dfoley]

my only concern is with the buffs haste protect shell i feel atleast haste should be under a wind trigger rather than a light trigger

I am going to test later if the bug of it casting silence on a mob with mp which does not cast is still there and the bug where if your emfeb and down to say 1 hp, will it cast cure or status removal.

Also Maintance am not really sure if this any use as repair as far as am aware did remove status debuffs could of just been sleep but perhaps why not just make it Repair II with Curing that frame and removing the debuffs at the same time would save wasting 2 oils and just use the one,

I will give it more of a play around later today but i get the feeling it will end up like cool down total waste of a ability (I still believe cool down should be a lvl 30 - 40 ability)


Might want to go read the post in the pup forum or the already posted bugs/feedback..


1) All buffs (including haste) are water, not light
2) Yes it is still silencing mobs like beetles/crabs with mp and no spells, it even addles them now
3) It is now prioritizing buffs > -na > cureing unless you have 2-3 light maneuvers up. Dont bother testing, you will die with haste up and no cures!
4) You can already repair + remove status ailments using af gear, no need to add repair 2
5) Cool down is actually very useful....for testing stuff on the test server, other then that, yeah its still worthless.

[Stigmar]

Well done some testing since then you dont need water for buffs to go off light will trigger them water I believe is only for party buffing but yeah SE still need to address the issue with its Priorty in curing this could be one massive headache in party situations. Clearly the Soulsoother and stormwaker ai still need fixing.

Only one good thing i did notice spiritreaver didnt decide to go on a aspiring spam fest which is atleast one step in the right direction the only thing i still wish they would address is the deployment range but meh

And i feel your missing the point with my repair 2 comment do you really want to be using 2 repair oils one for Repair and one Maintance in theroy your statement pretty much just proved that maintance is a waste when you can already achieve it with normal repair so why not just make a enhance version of repair and be done with it

[Dfoley]

I am not missing it... maintenance is on its own timer, and separate from repair, you only use it when repair isnt up. That is its key feature. If erase/repair aren't up then at least its another option.

Even then eraser >>> maintenance

[Theytak]

what you're both forgetting about maintenance is that, unlike AF boots Repair and Erase, maintenance can remove multiple status effects (1 for nq oil, +1 for each level of HQ oil, so oil+3 removes 4 effects). It also doesn't cost us any maneuvers (though since they changed eraser to light only, that's a lot less of an issue). Honestly, I almost never use repair to remove status effects, so I have no idea whether it only removes one or if it wipes out anything on it's list (I always just used eraser and rarely ever let my puppet get hit with multiple enfeebles anyway. If it did, I'd just leave 'em), but either way leaves maintenance as an alternative for other situations.

If only 1: use maintenance when you have multiple buffs to remove, or when you need to remove a single debuff without wasting your repair timer

If it clears: use maintenance when you need to remove 1~2 debuffs without losing your ability to repair for HP.