Pupdate 10-28-2011

[Dfoley]

Looks like they are adding the pup changes to test server today. Please use this thread to post findings. I will edit this first post to keep it update with the new info we find.

I go to work now but should have plenty of time this weekend to test all this delicious goodness ;-)
*All credit goes to original testers. I will not take full credit for anything other than compiling.

AI
Spell priority (no maneuvers)
enhancing>Na> Healing > Regen > Enfeebling

Enhancing: Phalanx/Stoneskin (Storm only) > Protect >Shell > Haste
Enfeebling: slow/poison 2/ blind / bio 2/ paralyze/ silence / addle

For soul soother:
at 100% hp no maneuvers
Enhancing: Protect >Shell > Haste
Enfeebling: slow/poison 2/ blind / paralyze / bio 2/ silence / addle
Cure:

For stormwaker
Enhancing -> Elemental -> enfeebling
UNLESS
elemental can one shot
ice - paralyze
fire - addle
dark - blind > bio 2
earth - slow
wind - silence



Spell casting timers:
Assuming casting time is the same for all frames, if found other wise please report
Global: 8 sec
enfeebling: 8 (would cast as soon as global recast was up)
enhancing: (stone skin/phalnax/protect/shell/haste): ~ 15 sec
regen -15s
cure -15s (soul soother)
-na -20s
nukes - 30 sec (with blm)

spell triggers:
Absorb attri - blm head only - mob must have buff + drk maneuver
Enhancing - water
dispel - rdm head only
dread spikes - blm head only- double dark + top of hate list
stoneskin -IS effected by Enhances "Stoneskin" Effect Gear
phalnax - consistantly absorbs 31 damage against 1000 Needles

Attachmenst:


Shock absorber - 283 stone skin at 95 (was 100) on 3 occasions it absorbed 350-363 damage
auto repair kit 2: ----- Harlequin Frame
1 light: 12 HP/sec
2 light: 24 HP/sec
3 light: 37 HP/sec
----- Valoredge Frame
1 light: 12 HP/sec
2 light: 25 HP/sec
3 light: 38 HP/sec
----- Sharpshot Frame
1 light: 11 HP/sec
2 light: 22 HP/sec
3 light: 34 HP/sec
----- Stormwaker Frame
1 light: 10 HP/sec
2 light: 21 HP/sec
3 light: 32 HP/sec
2 light: 21 HP/sec
3 light: 32 HP/sec



reactive shield - The new description says increases counter atk damage, that's an error. The attachment does what the original post by camate said, "Added a bonus to the amount of spike damage dealt based on the frame’s skill level" (does 54-57 at 95)
flame holder - raise magic mortar from 355 to 415 with 1 fire maneuver, someone else can do ftp calculations,,,, raised armor shatter from 2430 to 2650
replicator - adds shadows based on the number of maneuvers when hp <50% (<75% with damage gauge) 0/3/7/9 shadows??? (was 2/3/4)
drum magazine - 20/15/10/5
volt gun - 6 / 23/ 37 / 73 (on easy pray worm) 43/x/x/90 on ep bluffalo
Mana Booster: By Maneuver: 0/1/2/3 -> 10%/25%/35%/45% fast cast
steam jacket - +5% from current 30/40/50/65 (according to jp)
Armor plate 1
0 earth mav -5% pdt
1 earth mav -7.5% pdt
2 earth mav -10% pdt
3 earth mav -15%pdt
Armor plate 2:
0 earth mav -10.2% pdt
1 earth mav -15% pdt
2 earth mav -20% pdt
3 earth mav -25%pdt
damage gauge ???
inhibitor : 5/15/25/40 store tp (was 5/10/15/20)


New ability/oils:
Maintenance
2 min reuse
not on the same timer as repair
Consumes repair oil as expected

Stout servant 2
At 95 apparently we got Stout servant 2
466/500 1000 needle = 6.8% pdt aka stout servant 2

repair oil +3
restores 40% of hp
40/tic regen for 120s



Bugs:
Harle no longer casts
Still spams silence on crabs
whm trys to erase sleep (instead of cure to wake)
reactive shield - chat log is buged (mashera begins to use .. ) (mashera gains fire spikes)
replicator - mash uses .. (same as reactive shield)
error msg while casting absorb attri
casts na before cures

[Dfoley]

WHM spell cast priorities with no manuevers

Protect v
Slow
Poison 2
Shell v
Haste


(slow then poison, 4 seconds apart no maneuvers up)

Magic mortar does around 400 dmg at 95 with full hp

[Zhronne]

Anybody noticed any sort of reduction in MP cost?
How "spammy" is the AI? Like the old bugged Harlequin one?
Would really love to hear more opinions about the possible MP issues that could come from this, hoping to hear positive replies implying there's no need to worry :P

[Dohati]

WHM spell cast priorities with no manuevers

Protect v
Slow
Poison 2
Shell v
Haste


(slow then poison, 4 seconds apart no maneuvers up)

Magic mortar does around 400 dmg at 95 with full hp

it probably considers DoT it's own category so it wouldn't be mixed up with other enfeebles or dark magic. like poison/bio/dia on one timer, paralyze/slow/blind/addle on another, and aspir/drain/aspir2 on another.

[Dfoley]

At work at the moment but here are my thoughts at the moment.

1) The minimum delay between casts of any type seems to be 4 seconds. (Aka protect -> 4s ->slow ->4sec ->poison 2)
2) It enhances the master and not the pet (without maneuvers), never got it to shell/protect/haste itself and buffs seem to be a 10s recast (hard to tell without a time stamp in the log will parse this weekend).

I wouldnt say its spammy, its just finally getting to where a regular player would be. Only a regular player cannot unload on buffs/debuffs/heals then Deactivate/activate deploy for full mp.

There appears to be no change in mp consumption, which doesnt bother me at all, nor do I think there needs to be. Even on WHM.... worse case scenario you deactivate (with less than 100% hp) DEA -> pet cure 5s itself -> deactivate activate deploy -> full hp/mp pet again.

[Zhronne]

4s might be enough to avoid exagerate spamming of spells (i.e. mp consumption).
Should check if some attachment can make those 4s reduced.

Tactical Processor? Mana Booster? Damage Gauge?

Having to resort to ADD to compensate for possible Mana issues is definitely not something I was looking forward to. If anything, I would have loved for SE to kill ADD once and for all, but since they released Deus Ex Automata I figure that would be kinda hard to do =/

[Lessina]

Could anyone get the Harlequin to cast spells? Even with maneuvers mine would just walk around and hit things. Also tested Drum Magazine for a short time, With Scope and Three Wind maneuvers he was using RA's pretty frequently and I didn't see him miss. With Haste Attatchment it also builds TP absurdly quickly.

[Theytak]

Prioritizing Slow and Poison over Haste is going to be -really- annoying if that's how it ends up. Anything the puppet won't be able to land slow or poison on will instantly negate our flashy new self haste, unless they also got rid of the "I don't care if I'm fighting something with 10,000,000 earth resistance, I will cast slow and and you will like it" stubbornness (I've had it happen even with scanner equipped, though admittedly not as frequently).

However, a 4 second Global recast is so beautiful that I want to cry.

Oh, anyone gotten their hands on Oil+3 yet? Should confirm it's regen potency while we have the chance. Theoretically it should be 40 hp/tick over 40 ticks (2 minutes), for 1600 HP restored, before guignol, 48hp/tick with guignol for 1920 restored, not even touching the cure effect.

Also worth testing: The magic Mortar floor; ~400 at 100% HP for which frame? is it ~400 for harlequin as well as stormwaker, or are they different due to harlequin having more HP (meaning the floor is affected by max HP), and also does the damage scale upward from the damage at 100%, or does the damage plateau until your puppet is down 800/600/400 HP? (100/200/300% TP respectively)

And if possible, could someone use notvaloredge to test the new PDT on the armor plates vs cactuars? should be fairly straight forward to test, you'll just have to account for stout servant's -5%. Basically, Damage with 0/1/2/3 maneuvers for each individually, and then again with both, and we'll have all possible PDT values.

Oh, and where does dreadspikes fall in the priority? I assume it'll be dark maneuver to proc, and I'm hoping it's #1 now, over absorb-int/attri/aspirspam/drain, but it'd be nice to know for certain.

Ugh, I really need to download the test server...

[xbobx]

They say water Manuevers is what triggers protect and shell, maybe once you have protect and shell on it will trigger haste next?

[Theytak]

They say water Manuevers is what triggers protect and shell, maybe once you have protect and shell on it will trigger haste next?

theoretically then, wind maneuver should hopefully trigger haste. However if you're referencing the clarification in response to the patch notes, they said you need a water maneuver to trigger p/s being cast on your party, not to be cast. It's always been that way for -na's, so it's not really surprising.

[xbobx]

Either way, the point of a test server is to test. The fact that they don't release info on how the AI was changed, what triggers what etc shows how stupid the developers really are.

How the hell are you supposed to properly test something if they hold back such vital testing criteria.

[Dfoley]

Ill test very well this weekend be assured of that.

It isnt prioritizing slow/poison over haste.

I deployed and on a single target that was the order of spells
protect
slow
poison 2
shell
haste

it just means the order for beneficial spells is protect -> shell -> haste and it has to wait 10 sec inbetween in which time it casts enfeebles if they are available.

[Theytak]

They say water Manuevers is what triggers protect and shell, maybe once you have protect and shell on it will trigger haste next?


Ill test very well this weekend be assured of that.

It isnt prioritizing slow/poison over haste.

I deployed and on a single target that was the order of spells
protect
slow
poison 2
shell
haste

it just means the order for beneficial spells is protect -> shell -> haste and it has to wait 10 sec inbetween in which time it casts enfeebles if they are available.

Well, that also means that it doesn't prioritize enhancing magic over enfeebles, since if it cast slow and poison II before it cast haste, it's easy to infer it prioritizes them. However that could also be me/us not understanding how they have the individual recasts split up.

edit: also, wow at a 2GB ZIP file. I'd forgotten how big FFXI's filesize has gotten.... lol

[Xelnok]

Well, that also means that it doesn't prioritize enhancing magic over enfeebles, since if it cast slow and poison II before it cast haste, it's easy to infer it prioritizes them. However that could also be me/us not understanding how they have the individual recasts split up.

edit: also, wow at a 2GB ZIP file. I'd forgotten how big FFXI's filesize has gotten.... lol

If you think about it protect is the first spell cast, which is an enhancing spell, best test would be to deploy, get protect and shell then fight a new mob and see what it casts first, it looks as if haste is priority three, so if you have protect and shell, haste should be the first cast.

Just my speculation, hopefully it will work that way

[Theytak]

They say water Manuevers is what triggers protect and shell, maybe once you have protect and shell on it will trigger haste next?


If you think about it protect is the first spell cast, which is an enhancing spell, best test would be to deploy, get protect and shell then fight a new mob and see what it casts first, it looks as if haste is priority three, so if you have protect and shell, haste should be the first cast.

Just my speculation, hopefully it will work that way

here's hopin'. atm I'm wondering how in the world there can't be an easier way for them to implement the test server, that doesn't require an effective reinstallation of the game... 2 hours for the first of three zip files? Jesus. I know I have a slow connection, my DLs cap out at 300 KB/s for like, 10 minutes at a time, if I'm lucky, but still...

[Lessina]

I don't think Wind triggers Haste, with Wind up it would still cast Protect and Shell first.

[Dfoley]

All enhancing were water and the priority was protect >shell > haste

And if it casts protect > slow poison > shell that means it IS prioritizing enhancing over enfeebles.
The way to test it:
Deploy with no maneuver (see what it casts)
retrieve
wait 10-15sec
repeat

If enhancing is priority over enfeebling (which i am 99% sure it is) it will do protect -> shell -> haste

It was only enfeebling at all because the recast on enhancing wasn't open.

[Shotaro1]

A tiny bit off topic, but still about the update. I hope these changes can change some peoples views, and end the hatred and bashing on how "bad" pup is. Alot of complaint i hear is the not so smart AI of the whm, and now that is its improved, I hope people will accept pup more now.

Im very excited about the changes, and cant wait for the update to go live in the real servers

[Zhronne]

Messing around with it a bit, a few things I noticed, please correct me when I'm wrong:

1) It still keeps on casting Silence on mobs that cast no spells (for instance, buffaloes in Aby-uleg)
2) It only uses Cure5 and Cure6 like today's update reports, no trace of Cure4 like the post we got some weeks ago. Only time I saw it cast Cure3 it's because it was out of mp
3) It uses C5 and C6 in a kinda random way. Never saw it use C6 when I was missing only a bit of HP (and this is good) but it happened a few times I was missing a good chunk of HP, automaton has lot of MP, and he still decided to use C5 instead of C6. Odd...


Need some testing of Harlequin and Stormwaker now :D

[Zhronne]

A tiny bit off topic, but still about the update. I hope these changes can change some peoples views, and end the hatred and bashing on how "bad" pup is. Alot of complaint i hear is the not so smart AI of the whm, and now that is its improved, I hope people will accept pup more now.

Im very excited about the changes, and cant wait for the update to go live in the real servers
It's looking nice for small parties, so far.
Wouldn't really rely on that for end-game events though, of course. Can always play DD there, and would be awesome to mess around with sharpshoot if only they gave us a higher deploy range.

[xbobx]

the cure 4 I think was a typo, just like I believe the new ability, their notes say 90 sec i think but its 2 mins.

Please try harly, I still have a funny suspicion that harly is the one that casts dread spikes and absorb spells,

[Theytak]

Messing around with it a bit, a few things I noticed, please correct me when I'm wrong:

1) It still keeps on casting Silence on mobs that cast no spells (for instance, buffaloes in Aby-uleg)
2) It only uses Cure5 and Cure6 like today's update reports, no trace of Cure4 like the post we got some weeks ago. Only time I saw it cast Cure3 it's because it was out of mp
3) It uses C5 and C6 in a kinda random way. Never saw it use C6 when I was missing only a bit of HP (and this is good) but it happened a few times I was missing a good chunk of HP, automaton has lot of MP, and he still decided to use C5 instead of C6. Odd...


Need some testing of Harlequin and Stormwaker now :D

1: the devs seemed pretty happy with "equip the scanner" as an acceptable answer for that problem, even though it really isn't. I doubt they changed that.
2: I haven't seen cure IV since I got cure VI, outside of low MP cures. My puppet just kept randomly doing what it did with Cure IV before, but did it with Cure V, so again, I doubt that's changed.
3: I'm assuming you're testing in abyssea? Don't forget that abyssea cruor buffs, specifically the HP buff, fucks with HP% triggers something awful.

But more importantly, DOES IT @%@#%!#!$ing PRIORITIZE CURES OVER NAS?!

[Theytak]

It's looking nice for small parties, so far.
Wouldn't really rely on that for end-game events though, of course. Can always play DD there, and would be awesome to mess around with sharpshoot if only they gave us a higher deploy range.

Schs: "Please give us Haste, we really need it."
Rdms: "I wanna play pink mage again! gimme Cure V!"
Schs: "I wanna be useful for healing again, gimme Cure V too!!"

SE: "Ok, we'll give Cure V, VI, AND haste to another job besides whm!"

Schs&Rdms: "WOOOHOOOOO!!!!"

*SE adjusts stuff*

Pup: "Oh nice, my cure V and VI are now down to a 4 second recast as opposed to 30, and my puppet can hasteme and my party now!!"

SE: *trollface*

Note: This post is meant to be entirely satirical and does not in any way reflect my opinions on whether schs and rdms should or should not receive access to Cure V and/or haste (in the case of sch).

[Dfoley]

The cure 4 thing was a typo, the original jap comment said cure 5/6.

[Zhronne]

The cure 4 thing was a typo, the original jap comment said cure 5/6.
Uhm I must have misread Camate's follow up, because the way I got it he just forgot to add Cure VI, and not mistakengly putting 4 in place of 6.
Wouldn't it have been better if the automaton were able to cast C4 OR 5 OR 6? Altough I guess we can't complain, having it use C5 situationally is still better than C6 spam as we had before.

Oh and the C5 in place of C6 mixup I described earlier happens more often than I thought, altough it might be because of cruor buff like someone already said. Should try outside I guess.

[Theytak]

Uhm I must have misread Camate's follow up, because the way I got it he just forgot to add Cure VI, and not mistakengly putting 4 in place of 6.
Wouldn't it have been better if the automaton were able to cast C4 OR 5 OR 6? Altough I guess we can't complain, having it use C5 situationally is still better than C6 spam as we had before.

Oh and the C5 in place of C6 mixup I described earlier happens more often than I thought, altough it might be because of cruor buff like someone already said. Should try outside I guess.

Well, it doesn't really matter all that much outside, given that Cure V is more than enough to keep me going as a galka, if I trigger a cure at 50% HP (Cure Vs average ~800ish, I have 1400~1500ish HP outside of abyssea at 95). I'd try to figure out the issue in abyssea, but I can't for the life of me remember how the cruor buff caused issue exactly.

[Lessina]

Please try harly, I still have a funny suspicion that harly is the one that casts dread spikes and absorb spells,

Harli was the first puppet I tried, I couldn't get it to cast spells at all. All it does is Auto-Attack.

[Dfoley]

Well yes, of course it would be best if it casted cure 4 5 or 6, but I was just clarifying that the original time camate translated it, he missed it and changed it from 5 or 6 to 5 or 4 (iv vs vi).

Also it may be using cure 5 instead of 6 'randomly' if the recast time on 5 isnt up.
4 seconds between global recast
x seconds between healing spells
Each healing spell has its own recast time

Once we figure out how often it can cast healing spells (10s for enhancing) we can determine if its just the recast time they gave to cure vi.

EG

10 seconds on healing magic recast
15 seconds on cure 6 recast

that would cause cure 6 - > cure 5 -> cure 6

Good posts, plenty for me to test this weekend. :-)

[Zhronne]

Yeah, thought as much. Might have been something concerning the internal recast of the single spell (C6 in my example).

[Siviard]

Just a slight observation I made thus far.

I am in Abyssea-Grauberg killing Sinister Seidel (Pots) right now.

I had a pot sleep me, and my WHM puppet spammed Erase, which of couse, has no effect on removing Sleep status.

But on the bright side, anytime Haste wears off, puppet puts it back on. Anytime the mob is silenced and then becomes unsilenced, puppet casts silence on it again. When Regen IV wears off, puppet puts it right back on. It's freaking sweet! But yeah, the whole "WHM puppet spamming Erase on the master who is slept" will need to be adjusted.

[Annahya]

Schs: "Please give us Haste, we really need it."
Rdms: "I wanna play pink mage again! gimme Cure V!"
Schs: "I wanna be useful for healing again, gimme Cure V too!!"

SE: "Ok, we'll give Cure V, VI, AND haste to another job besides whm!"

Schs&Rdms: "WOOOHOOOOO!!!!"

*SE adjusts stuff*

Pup: "Oh nice, my cure V and VI are now down to a 4 second recast as opposed to 30, and my puppet can hasteme and my party now!!"

SE: *trollface*

Note: This post is meant to be entirely satirical and does not in any way reflect my opinions on whether schs and rdms should or should not receive access to Cure V and/or haste (in the case of sch).

Excellent post. I laughed quite hard at that.

[Theytak]

10 minutes until the last zip file is downloaded. I vote we have a pup get together on Undine tonight. We can have a BBQ and stuff. I'll bring the shit for s'mores!!! We can laugh at our puppets while we eat them and their gooey, messy deliciousness, because if they even touched the s'mores we'd spend a week degunking them. Then they laugh at us because we all look like we're 5 year olds, covered in chocolate and marshmallow.

actually I think I have some marshmallows somewhere, andI KNOW I have hershey's bars and graham crackers.... I need to make this happen nao.

edit:

To the tune of Kumbaya;

We are pups, yah devs, We are pups;
We are pups, yah devs, We are pups;
We are pups, yah devs, We are pups;
O Devs, We're all pups.

We're all laughing, Devs, We are pups;
We're all laughing, Devs, We are pups;
We're all laughing, Devs, We are pups;
O Devs, We're all pups.

No More crying, Devs, We are pups;
No More crying, Devs, We are pups;
No More crying, Devs, We are pups;
O Devs, We're all pups.

Ghatsaad's Swearing, Devs, We are pups;
Ghatsaad's Swearing, Devs, We are pups;
Ghatsaad's Swearing, Devs, We are pups;
O Devs, We're all pups.

Yea We're singing, Devs, We are pups;
Yea We're singing, Devs, We are pups;
Yea We're singing, Devs, We are pups;
O Devs, We're all pups!

[Dragonlord]

Our new stoneskin is 283 damage reduction. Hit 1 w/o SS up = 466. Hit 2 w/ SS = 183.

[Kaizersan]

is that the spell or the attachment ss

[Dohati]

Just a slight observation I made thus far.

I am in Abyssea-Grauberg killing Sinister Seidel (Pots) right now.

I had a pot sleep me, and my WHM puppet spammed Erase, which of couse, has no effect on removing Sleep status.

But on the bright side, anytime Haste wears off, puppet puts it back on. Anytime the mob is silenced and then becomes unsilenced, puppet casts silence on it again. When Regen IV wears off, puppet puts it right back on. It's freaking sweet! But yeah, the whole "WHM puppet spamming Erase on the master who is slept" will need to be adjusted.

yeah, they should make puppets cast cure1 (if the master isn't hurt) as a remedy to sleep like it uses -na spells in response to their respective status effects. i mean as long as we're messing with puppet AI...

[brayen]

Our new stoneskin is 283 damage reduction. Hit 1 w/o SS up = 466. Hit 2 w/ SS = 183.

i cant make heads or tails of what you have said here, could you please clarify?

[Chamaan]

He's saying that he took a hit for 466 without Stoneskin, then one with Stoneskin up that did 183. But those numbers don't account for the RNG in the damage formula. Won't know exact value until someone tries it at cactuars.

[Dragonlord]

Sorry, to clarify, im talking about the attachment shock absorber, since SE changed the formula from the straight 100 dmg. And this test was on 1000 needles. half dmg hit me, half on automaton.

[Zhronne]

Doubt they will adjust that just like they won't adjust the spamming debuffs on mobs immune to that, or silencing mobs who cast no spells >_>

But hey, we can't ask for everything, can we?

[xbobx]

anyone try flameholder change? could make VE on par with SS since harder to get a fire up for ap

[Shinron-PUP]

I tested harliquin head/frame... Apparently Harliquin head is the root source of why he isn't casting (Harliquin Head doesn't cast) (Someone should report this). If you switch to Stormwaker head + Harliquin frame, he casts just fine. By the way, Dread spikes/Absorb Attirbute (Dark manuevers) are on BLM Head frame, Addle (Fire manuevers?) is on BLM/RDM, Dispel (Dark manuevers) on Stormwaker Head, Stoneskin/phalanx Stormwaker Head only, Haste on Stormwaker/Soul Soother.

*Also cool side note:
Harliquin Body + BLM Frame is the new DRK frame. He uses Dread Spikes/Thunder V and down spells/Bio/Drain/Aspir/Absorb Attri/etc.
He tanks extremely well too. I soloed Awahando with him in Abyssea.

[Shotaro1]

I tested harliquin head/frame... Apparently Harliquin head is the root source of why he isn't casting (Harliquin Head doesn't cast) (Someone should report this). If you switch to Stormwaker head + Harliquin frame, he casts just fine. By the way, Dread spikes/Absorb Attirbute (Dark manuevers) are on BLM Head frame, Addle (Fire manuevers?) is on BLM/RDM, Dispel (Dark manuevers) on Stormwaker Head, Stoneskin/phalanx Stormwaker Head only, Haste on Stormwaker/Soul Soother.

*Also cool side note:
Harliquin Body + BLM Frame is the new DRK frame. He uses Dread Spikes/Thunder V and down spells/Bio/Drain/Aspir/Absorb Attri/etc.
He tanks extremely well too. I soloed Awahando with him in Abyssea.

Halequin frame + blm head? Your automaton solo tanked Awahando?

[Zargosa]

I tested harliquin head/frame... Apparently Harliquin head is the root source of why he isn't casting (Harliquin Head doesn't cast) (Someone should report this). If you switch to Stormwaker head + Harliquin frame, he casts just fine. By the way, Dread spikes/Absorb Attirbute (Dark manuevers) are on BLM Head frame, Addle (Fire manuevers?) is on BLM/RDM, Dispel (Dark manuevers) on Stormwaker Head, Stoneskin/phalanx Stormwaker Head only, Haste on Stormwaker/Soul Soother.

*Also cool side note:
Harliquin Body + BLM Frame is the new DRK frame. He uses Dread Spikes/Thunder V and down spells/Bio/Drain/Aspir/Absorb Attri/etc.
He tanks extremely well too. I soloed Awahando with him in Abyssea.

I tried just the regular Diremites in the area, it was nice but not solo tank awahondo nice :o What atmas were u using?

[Shinron-PUP]

I used stoneskin (Attachment)/replicator/dread spikes alternation for blocks along with Atma of Ducal Guard, Minikin Monstrosity, and Sea daughter. Pet was down to take 40 minimal dmg (I also have a -22% Physical dmg taken set from magian H2H + Sheperds Necklace + Anwig Salade (Moogle Kupo Event head). I would use my Capello +2 during magic moarters/Tactical Switch to give Magic Moarter a good dmg boost. Was doing around 1000~1800 Magic moarters because I kept my pets hp around 30%. I also used volt gun/blaze spikes for additional dmg when dread spikes was down.

The fight takes a few tricks

[Dfoley]

updated first post with news from others + 2 hrs of testing

still have a lot of attachments to go

[Harkin]

Something of note, I was playing with the Tactical Processor on the Soulsoother and noticed that it gives a noticeable decrease in time between casting of different spell types when they are all ready for casting. Kinda weird having it be so useful after not having a clue what it did for so long.

[Dfoley]

You will have to elaborate.

Just tested with / without it and I see no difference with 3x ice up. Pretty much as soon as global recast is up its casting for me.

On a side note
New repair oil = win
new drum magazine = total win ....unbelievable how good it is now

[Dfoley]

i need to test the

armor plate 1/2
cure/na/regen recasts
elemental recasts

still rest is a bit to mathy for me to test (emnity on strobe etc), but am going for food/chores for a few hours so if anyone wants to test this and post it ill add it to the first post

[Harkin]

This is what I mean. The effect isn't this pronounced, the picture is just to illustrate the point. Each of the blue bars represents the recast times for each type of magic (spell casts at beginning of bar, can cast again at the end). The time reduction isn't very large, not saying you're going to get Chainspell-like casting or anything, but with three ice maneuvers it was a noticeable difference (at least to me).

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/287/tactproc.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/12/tactproc.jpg/)

[Zhronne]

Thanks Dfoley for editing the first post making it more and more awesome.
Small suggestion: edit the description on Replicator and Reactive Shield. For someone who read the original posts it might be clear, but for someone who didn't it probably is pretty unclear.

Thanks again for all the good work, keep it up man!
/thumb up

[Siviard]

Just let myself get beat on by a Goblin DRK in Newton Movalpolos to test some things out.

1. I let myself get into RED hp
2. I made sure I had debuffs on me (in this case I had Bio and Absorb-CHR on me)

I put up 1 Light Maneuver and Deployed. WHM Automaton used ERASE instead of CURE.

[xbobx]

HAHAHAHAHA when will SE learn. Well add that to the bug report, tell them AI is still stupid

[Theytak]

Just let myself get beat on by a Goblin DRK in Newton Movalpolos to test some things out.

1. I let myself get into RED hp
2. I made sure I had debuffs on me (in this case I had Bio and Absorb-CHR on me)

I put up 1 Light Maneuver and Deployed. WHM Automaton used ERASE instead of CURE.

for clarity, what attachments did you have equipped?
the only ones that should matter are damage gauge, optic fiber, and vivi-valve, but for the sake of bugs, the whole list would be safer

[cloverlief]

If Status Ailment and Cure have a separate cast category does cure cast very shortly after erase?
If so then maybe it is not a bug?

[Theytak]

If Status Ailment and Cure have a separate cast category does cure cast very shortly after erase?
If so then maybe it is not a bug?
It's a bug because there's no way the puppet should still be so retarded as to priority status removal over cures. SE said they fixed the AI, and if this is fixed, it's no fucking different. /denial

[Shotaro1]

It's a bug because there's no way the puppet should still be so retarded as to priority status removal over cures. SE said they fixed the AI, and if this is fixed, it's no fucking different. /denial

Oh thats not good...thats probably the #1 thing that was hated about the WHM automaton, was that is would -na your or something before a cure....come on SE, you were on a roll, keep it rollin!

[Theytak]

so, I'm on the test server now. The only problem is that I can't go 5 minutes without alt tabbing out of habit. /rage

[Siviard]

I did have Optic Fiber, Damage Gauge, and Vivi-Valve all equipped, to answer your question.

[Siviard]

If Status Ailment and Cure have a separate cast category does cure cast very shortly after erase?
If so then maybe it is not a bug?

Unfortunately I couldn't see if it could Cure me right away, I died 2 hits later.

But the major issue here is that despite the fact my HP was in the red, it still prioritized Erase to rid me of debuffs first instead of curing me to keep me alive.

[xbobx]

probably dumb question but how do you change the resolution on test server, where are the options?

[Devnull]

probably dumb question but how do you change the resolution on test server, where are the options?

I did it in the registry, used this page as reference:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Graphics

In the registry, at HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\PlayOnlineUS\SquareEnix\FinalFantasyXITestClient
*edit* my windows 7 is 64 bits, so the exact location might change...

option 034, change to decimal, put it at 1.

[Theytak]

I got my puppet to cure over -na, finally. It took 3 light maneuvers, but she did it. Got this to work with no attachments, damage gauge alone, and vivi-valve alone, but haven't tried it with anything else. That's a lot of stupid.

For that test: Deus with soulsoother set, no attachments. role reversal, deactivate, activate for full HP/mp, poison pot from the GM moogle, then deploy/retrieve on various mobs around the batallia-jeuno zone to see if I could get anything other than poisona. If I could get my hands on some blinding potions that would be a lot more conclusive in my eyes, as the puppet -could- prioritize poisona due to it removing a dot and poison -normally- being a lot more potent when you're at 330 HP than it is from a poison pot.

Also, the puppet -won't- over write a lesser protect or shell. /sch, Puppet cast pro and shell 5, I canceled protect, cast protect II, and my puppet cast haste. probably the same with shell, will test that in a minute.

edit: also did some testing with auto repair kit II: No change to the HP% increase that I can see, but the regens got increased across the board.

----- Harlequin Frame
1 light: 12 HP/sec
2 light: 24 HP/sec
3 light: 37 HP/sec
----- Valoredge Frame
1 light: 12 HP/sec
2 light: 25 HP/sec
3 light: 38 HP/sec
----- Sharpshot Frame
1 light: 11 HP/sec
2 light: 22 HP/sec
3 light: 34 HP/sec
----- Stormwaker Frame
1 light: 10 HP/sec
2 light: 21 HP/sec
3 light: 32 HP/sec

Also, is there some sort of pup-test-data-linkshell? If so, I can haz pearl? If not, I'll go make one, send me a tell for a pearl and I'll sack you, and we can get a better flow iof information going. I can't write stuff down while testing because I don't have any space at my desk for pencil/paper, so if I could share info with someone that DOES, I could get stuff done a lot faster than I am having to log out every 10-15 minutes to compile data x.x

[Tarumage]

I got my puppet to cure over -na, finally. It took 3 light maneuvers, but she did it. Got this to work with no attachments, damage gauge alone, and vivi-valve alone, but haven't tried it with anything else. That's a lot of stupid.

Well - That's nothing new. On live servers the puppet will Cure over -na with 3x light maneuvers.

[Theytak]

Well - That's nothing new. On live servers the puppet will Cure over -na with 3x light maneuvers.
that was my point.


Also, I've got a shell made for pup testing. Send Theytak a tell if you see me on while you're testing and I'll run you a pearl. It'll make testing shit a lot easier for everyone once we're all linked up like that.

[Nezha]

Thanks for the compilation Dfoley. I wanted to add some suggestions based on the testing I've done (this will be quick). Not sure how to post so Devs will see, so if we could compile known issues and focus our suggestions cleanly and clearly so that they can be considered for reimplementation that would be awesome!

Issues: -Eqipping Harlequin Head with a either Harlequin Frame or Stormwaker Frame results in an non-casting Automaton (To clearify I believe the fault is in the head).
-Issue where Automaton casts "Silence" on mobs who resistances are too high to even silence or that do not cast magic and simply have MP.

Suggestions: -Scaling the potency of Shock Absorber depending on amount of HP or simply by frame, where Stormwaker/Soulsoother/Spiritreaver would benefit the most, then scaling downward: Sharpshot > Harlequin > Valoredge.
The now universal 283 damage seems befitting for Valoredge seeing as he has 2000+ HP and very good DEF, but for Stormwaker/Soulsoother/Spiritreaver with only ~1000 HP this blocks a hit and maybe two if your lucky of a worthy opponent. Other suggestion which might be easier to implement as a Universal ~350 Stoneskin which is the old( or possibly still) the Stoneskin Hard Cap. The for the sake of the argument that "Puppetmaster is overpowered" which I do see coming (and which I will say I disagree with) I believe scaling is a better option.

- Revamping "Equalizer". It really lost in purpose in the shadow of the Armor Plates which are now PDT-. Suggestion: Recalculation of damage absorbed by Equalizer or extending its effect to "Magical Damage" also instead of only "Physical Damage".

- Revamping Cannibal Blade or some other form of sustaining Valoredge. Looking at all the frames, he had the least change in performance. I know that one might argue that the new armor plates was a large boost in Valoregde performance, but I would disagree only because Armor plate may be utilized by all frames, and there for it was therefore a boost in Universal Automaton Survivability, which I really appreciate, but as for Valoredge by himself... he only recieved a 100% Shield Bash accuracy attachment. My other suggestion would be allowing him more TP per hit, so that he may WS or use Cannibal Blade more often or boosting Turbo Charger so that the Valoredge accumulates TP at a rate that would allow him to sustain himself with the current Cannibal Blade calculations. Another option would be while equpped with Hammermill, it would add a proportionate Drain effect to Shield Bash or a possible Aftermath such as "Regen" after Shield Bashing. Or going back to another argument just allowing him Cure I-IV? (If anyone has any other creative and feasible suggestions for Valoredge that would be great.)

[Theytak]

Stormwaker priorities:
Enhancing -> Elemental -> enfeebling
UNLESS
elemental can one shot. Tried it against bunnies outside sandy and all caroline ever did was nuke, unless I got two really close and got a deploy out before the elemental recast was up.
In sky vs pots/birds/dolls: enhancing -> elemental -> enfeebling -> Enhancing -> elemental -> enfeebling
In ronf vs bunnies/worms: Elemental -> enhancing -> enfeebling

Elemental's recast feels like it's the same as enhancing, so 10~12 seconds.

As for healing, I tested with soulsoother; activate -> role reverasal -> fight some shit to get my HP down a bit more, but not triggering cure. Once ready, Deploy -> cast random spell -> light maneuver -> cure V -> role reversal -> some enfeeble -> cure V, so Healing's recast will be 5~8 seconds. Not 100% on the exact because it may have waited for cure V's recast instead of overcuring with cure VI, so I'll test a few more times to be sure.

had no attachments equipped for the stormwaker testing, but vivi/damage/optic/ark, scanner/tactical/manabooster/tranq, mana tank/mana converter/heatsink/stealth screen (basically my typical SS build, plus TP for the sake of curiosity) for the soulsoother testing.

Also, tested with both: you can't force addle on anything without MP, same as silence. Additionally, is anyone else feeling like they fucked with the maneuver priority set up? I can't get anything I KNOW works to work, and the fact that the puppet prioritizes Poison II over Slow now is aggravating me.

My stormwaker enfeeble order vs pots, and dolls (birds it opened up with a nuke after casting stoneskin despite the bird having > 75% HP, but it was close so I'm considering it a fluke) was something like:
Poison II -> Slow -> Blind -> Silence -> Paralyze -> Addle (Silence and Addle were only against pots, but they WERE in those positions. Additionally, a wind maneuver could NOT force silence against pots, but DID force slow. I'm gonna play with it some more, but it feels like they fucked something up.

[Kaizersan]

Ok here some of the testing I have done with pdt attachments against 1000 needles

95 pup
Valoredge
Attachments Armor 1 Armor 2 Analyzer
0 earth mav 332
1 earth mav 296
2 earth mav 255
3 earth mav 205

Attachment Armor 2
0 earth mav 355
1 earth mav 330
2 earth mav 304
3 earth mav 279

Tested both against many 1000 needles numbers came up the same all the time note both these tests only had those attachments listed and no outside pet pdt gear.

[Devnull]

Has anyone got to test if a cure is started to cast on you, is it cancelled when a mob dies? I know this sorta irritated me the few times it happened.

[Kaizersan]

yes it still stops casting if the mob dies

[Dfoley]

So with stout servant on none ve frame with non armor plate, 1000 needle starts at 466 (6.8%<---- means we got rank 2 at 95 :) ).... what is ves additional bonus? I want to say it was 10 or 15 %.

Either way.


Ok here some of the testing I have done with pdt attachments against 1000 needles

95 pup
Valoredge (-12? pdt innate +6.8 stout servant 2 = 18.8)
Attachment Armor 2
0 earth mav 355 - 29% pdt (-10.2% pdt)
1 earth mav 330 - 35% pdt (-15% pdt)
2 earth mav 304 - 39.2% pdt (-20% pdt)
3 earth mav 279- 44.2% pdt (-25%pdt)


Once i find the innate out for VE ill update the main post

[Theytak]

from testing with my stormwaker in sky, vs pots, I'm fairly confident they totally fucked up casting priority. I only ever got caroline to open with silence once, and that was with no maneuvers active. I also got poison II and slow as openers with no maneuvers, and I never once got silence with a wind maneuver, only slow. The only static thing was addle, which was always last. stormwaker cycled randomly through all of the other enfeebles between nukes, and so did soulsoother, and I couldn't get any priority maneuvers to work 100% of the time. Occasionally they'd work, occasionally they didn't.

This all held true both with and without scanner/tactical/anything else.

[Dfoley]

I have been able to get different enfeebles to cast first with soul soother, maybe its just the rdm helm

[xbobx]

too bad, I can see rdm helm really being a great puppet to solo with, help speed up kills etc.

[Siviard]

I'm on the Test Server now, but I see a bunch of unfamiliar names. Are you all using your mains, or using mules?

I know I saw Shinron on the test server b/c I know his main on Fenrir. But how about everyone else?

[Nezha]

Pet Innate Physical Damage Taken -% & Armor Plate I/II TEST:

Innate: Stormwaker Frame: 6.8% | Harlequin Frame: 13% | Valoredge/Sharpshot: 19.2%

Armor Plate I: 0 = 4.6% (5%) | 1 = 6.6% (7%)| 2 = 9.8% (10%) | 3 = 14.8% (15%) (Rounded Numbers in Parenthesis)

Armor Plate II: 0 = 9.8% (10%) | 1 = 14.8% (15%) | 2 = 19.8% (20%) | 3 = 25% (25%)

Theoretical Calculations for Valoredge frame: MAX gear PDT- = 22%, Innate PDT = 19.2%, Armor Plate I & II w/ 3 Earth Maneuvers = 39.8% (40%)

MAX PDT%-: 82%

[Nezha]

This number seems high though all my calculations for PDT were repeated multiple times and done consistantly. It makes me wonder if there is a -PDT% Cap for pets and also when using Ducal Guard in Abyssea does it just add to a cap or do 50% damage reduction of the remaining damage after the 82% is subtracted . . .? More testing to be had here!

[Dfoley]

Pet Innate Physical Damage Taken -% & Armor Plate I/II TEST:

Innate: Stormwaker Frame: 6.8% | Harlequin Frame: 13% | Valoredge/Sharpshot: 19.2%

Armor Plate I: 0 = 4.6% (5%) | 1 = 6.6% (7%)| 2 = 9.8% (10%) | 3 = 14.8% (15%) (Rounded Numbers in Parenthesis)

Armor Plate II: 0 = 9.8% (10%) | 1 = 14.8% (15%) | 2 = 19.8% (20%) | 3 = 25% (25%)

Theoretical Calculations for Valoredge frame: MAX gear PDT- = 22%, Innate PDT = 19.2%, Armor Plate I & II w/ 3 Earth Maneuvers = 39.8% (40%)

MAX PDT%-: 82%


Those are the same numbers I came up with as well. (see first post)
The hawt part is the 6.8 for the mage frame. That means we got stout servant 2 (added to main page) some time between 90 and 95.

It should be 6.8 + 12 % for VE so 18.8 ish (which is pretty much the 19.2 you reported)


Depending on how gear stacks with attachments, I know the gear cap on pets it -50% pdt however if its like summoners you add he innate to that cap so VE should be 19 +50 as the cap.

Should be easy enough to check. VE + 3 earth manuevers = 58 (should cap at 50 if its all considered gear)

If the cap is 70 then you would need the anwing/magian claws to cap.


Good stuff guys keep it coming and I will update the main post as often as I can


Edit: Yes I test on Gilmour (my mule) feel free to send me tells (off to test new magic mortor formula and flame holder on bunnies!)

[Psion]

The cap for pets PDT is 87.5% last I checked, as opposed to players capping at 50%.

[Dfoley]

Okay i have some data for some math people

Inhibitor: was 5/10/15/20 store tp
Tested using soulsoother (wiki says 400 delay)

0 attachments
0 10 20 30 40 51 61 71 81 91 102
Confirms 400 delay

inhibitor 0 fire maneuvers
0 10 21 32 42 53 64 74 85 96 107
+4 store tp would be
10.7 21.4 32.1 42.8 53.5 64.2 74.9 85.6 96.3 107
Okay, so 0 maneuvers = is 4 store tp (says it used to be 5, so -1???)

inhibitor 1 fire maneuver
0 11 23 35 46 58 70
+14 store tp would be
0 11.7 23.4 35.1 46.8 58.5 70.2
Okay, so 1 fire maneuver = +14 (was +10, so +4 from what it would be)

inhibitor 2 fire maneuvers
0 12 25 38 50 63 76 88 101
+24 stp
0 12.7 25.4 38.1 50.8 63.5 76.2 88.9 101.6
So 2 fire maneuvers is +24 store tp (was 15, so +9)

inhibitor 3 fire maneuvers
0 14 28 42 56 71 85 99
+38 store tp
0 14.2 28.4 42.6 56.8 71 85.2 99.4

I am going to assume
1) Delay is 400 (screw you wiki n your bad formulas)
2) it is 4/14/24/38 store tp

[Dohati]

Just let myself get beat on by a Goblin DRK in Newton Movalpolos to test some things out.

1. I let myself get into RED hp
2. I made sure I had debuffs on me (in this case I had Bio and Absorb-CHR on me)

I put up 1 Light Maneuver and Deployed. WHM Automaton used ERASE instead of CURE.

sometimes that could be a good thing. i don't have a problem with that is the next spell is going to be cure. like if you had a really bad paralyze effect on a mob that hits super duper hard, and you cant get utsusemi off, i'd say paralyna might help more than cure. and with a recast delay on -na spells, that'd keep them from not curing you at all like they would do in the past like if the mob had ice spikes.

[Dohati]

- Revamping "Equalizer". It really lost in purpose in the shadow of the Armor Plates which are now PDT-. Suggestion: Recalculation of damage absorbed by Equalizer or extending its effect to "Magical Damage" also instead of only "Physical Damage".

i really like this idea, and i highly agree that equalizer needs to be changed/enhanced since there are now three PDT attachments

[Dohati]

since stormwaker head is the only one to get stoneskin and phalanx, i wish they had lower priority for elemental magic. the stoneskin effect would be excellent for soloing with ninja sub, but i wouldn't want my puppet wasting all her MP on nukes... or please just give soulsoother stoneskin. <3 i don't see the problem with it since real whms have afflatus solace.

[Theytak]

since stormwaker head is the only one to get stoneskin and phalanx, i wish they had lower priority for elemental magic. the stoneskin effect would be excellent for soloing with ninja sub, but i wouldn't want my puppet wasting all her MP on nukes... or please just give soulsoother stoneskin. <3 i don't see the problem with it since real whms have afflatus solace.

Aside from wasting mp, if you have any MAB attachments fit it'll hurt your hate control too. The nice thing about soulsoother is that no matter how much it cure bombs you, it hardly ever pulls hate, but once you get rolling with stormwaker, if you engage will all your buffs up the first thing it'll do is THUNDARFOARDURPHURP.

Aso for the delay issue with stormwaker frame, I'll go try valoredge since it's got a different delay and see if that's any better. I honestly don't know where/when the 400 delay for harle/stormwaker/sharpshot was figured out, but it was forever ago, so that it might not be totally accurate isn't to surprising (and we can test this on the live servers, which will be a lot more accurate given various limitations of the test server)


I'm on the Test Server now, but I see a bunch of unfamiliar names. Are you all using your mains, or using mules?

I know I saw Shinron on the test server b/c I know his main on Fenrir. But how about everyone else?

Right click their forum name, view profile, then look at their characters. That'll tell you which character has 95 pup unless they have a bajillion jobs at 95 (it only shows 3, iirc). For the record, I'm still Theytak on the test server. xbobx is shuffles, and I think dfoley is gilmour (sp?). If anyone else uses a different name on the test server compared to the forums, they'll have to speak up.

edit: wtf happened to the tp formulas on wiki? when the hell did someone change their format and remove all sorts of random shit that as far as my math said, was still correct? :confused:

[Dfoley]

Gonna redo my calculations with the bg wiki tp formulas

[Dfoley]

Okay i have some data for some math people

Inhibitor: was 5/10/15/20 store tp
Tested using soulsoother (wiki says 400 delay)

0 attachments
0 10 20 30 40 51 61 71 81 91 102
Confirms 400 delay

inhibitor 0 fire maneuvers
0 10 21 32 42 53 64 74 85 96 107
+4 store tp would be
10.7 21.4 32.1 42.8 53.5 64.2 74.9 85.6 96.3 107
Okay, so 0 maneuvers = is 4 store tp (says it used to be 5, so -1???)

inhibitor 1 fire maneuver
0 11 23 35 46 58 70
+14 store tp would be
0 11.7 23.4 35.1 46.8 58.5 70.2
Okay, so 1 fire maneuver = +14 (was +10, so +4 from what it would be)

inhibitor 2 fire maneuvers
0 12 25 38 50 63 76 88 101
+24 stp
0 12.7 25.4 38.1 50.8 63.5 76.2 88.9 101.6
So 2 fire maneuvers is +24 store tp (was 15, so +9)

inhibitor 3 fire maneuvers
0 14 28 42 56 71 85 99
+38 store tp
0 14.2 28.4 42.6 56.8 71 85.2 99.4

I am going to assume
1) Delay is 400 (screw you wiki n your bad formulas)
2) it is 4/14/24/38 store tp

okay theytak, thank you for pointing out the wiki formula is off. here is the final results which confirms the 400 delay and confirms 100% of data points

[Dfoley]

That leaves:
flame holder
damage guage
strobe
reactive shield by level
analyzer

[Theytak]

Inhibitor: Done using valoredge, Base TP/hit 9.3

Inhibitor, 0 fire maneuvers: 9, 19, 29, 38, 48, 58, 67, 77, 87, 97, thus 9.7 tp/hit, which is due to Store TP +5 (same as it was originally, thus it's unchanged)

Inhibitor, 1 fire maneuvers: 10, 21, 31, 42, 53, 63, 74, 84, 95, 106, thus 10.6 tp/hit, due to Store TP +15 (originally +10, so 5 stp increase)

Inhibitor, 2 fire maneuvers: 11, 23, 34, 46, 58, 69, 81, 92, 104, 116, thus 11.6 tp/hit, due to Store TP +25 (originally +15, so 10 stp increase

Note about this last one: Caroline borked it up the first try, but that bork up still allowed me to get an accurate number. Due to how much tp/hit is, it's a bit annoying to get the last couple of numbers since the puppet will randomly WS. The highest I've gotten is 9 hits, and the numbers held true to that point. If anyone can pull off getting all 10 to confirm 100% that would be nice, but I don't want to deal with the headache since the math is already clear enough.

Inhibitor, 3 fire maneuvers: 13, 26, 39, 52, 65, 78, 91, -fuckup- 102 (third fire maneuver wore off a second before the hit), however given that 2 fire maneuvers is 11.6 TP/hit, 3 can't be anything other than 13.0. If it were 13.1, the 2 fm hit would have resulted in 103 TP. Additionally, I ran through again and got the following: 13, 26, 39, 52, 65, 78, 91, 104, 117, WS, which further solidifies this one. 3 FM is 13.0 TP/hit, due to Store TP +40 (originally +20, so 20 stp increase)

tl;dr:
Inhibitor:
0 FM: STP +5
1 FM: STP +15
2 FM: STP +25
3 FM: STP +40

Basically they gave it turbo charger's scaling.


That leaves:
flame holder
damage guage
strobe
reactive shield by level
analyzer

Strobe's values are gonna be annoying to test, but given how they changed inhibitor, we can assume with moderate safety that they changed strobe in the same manner, from enmity +5/10/15/20 to enmity +5/15/25/40.

Reactive shield testing is simple enough, it's just gonna take forever to do. Also, you need to stay clear that it's affected by the puppet's SKILL level, not the puppet's actual level. Assuming either

A: Melee for Valoredge, Ranged for Sharpshot, Magic for Stormwaker, and for Harle, it'll be impossible to test which individually affects it since all our skills are capped and all of harly's skills are capped at the same level (and I doubt 30 skill from cirque pants+2 and merits will make any difference)

or B: Universally by Melee skill, or less likely, by magic skill (ie valoredge and sharpshot will have shitty returns with it, but from playing around yesterday this doesn't -seem- to be the case)

Analyzer testing, I would assume is probably easiest to test via thousand needles spam (I'd say get a blu and try it in diorama for a base line, since getting cactuars to -spam- thousand needles is not exactly easy.

Damage Gauge, and Manabooster's exact fast cast values are pretty much impossible to test accurately on the test server, so until it goes live we won't be able to know for certain.

Flame Holder is also gonna be tricky, but that's less to due with the test server and more to do with how fucking difficult it is to test pet ws fTP values since we can't just SA WS test it like we can player WS. I'll play with this after I finish my magic mortar testing and see if I can't at least get a general idea of the values.

Also missing from your OP:
Elemental Recast is the same as Enhancing (they're separate timers, but the same length), and healing/na recasts are the same length, but shorter than elemental, ~6 seconds.

and we still need to do some work with magic mortar (I'm gonna do that next)

[TimeMage]

You guys are simply awesome, thanks a lot for the testing. Keep up the good work!

Oh, and you may want to mention anything that remotely resembles a bug in the Test Server subforum thread, so that we make sure the community reps see it.

[Theytak]

Preliminary findings, Magic Mortar can be resisted, and has a HIGH rate of resistance.

Harlequin Head, Stormwaker Frame, 1051 HP (only HP boost was animator +1) 10 WS vs level 0 wild rabbits in west ronfaure. Variance in TP has no effect on damage.
Magic Mortar: 91, 365, 365, 91, 365, 91, 91, 365, 365, 91. 91 = 1/4 damage (91x4 = 364, + decimal rounds up to 365 since it's taking a quarter of an odd number)

HYPOTHESIS (Read: NOT proven fact, but rather, educated guess as to what the out come will be based on 5 and a half years of playing pup and crunching pup numbers, that I will attempt to confirm/disprove via testing)

Base damage = current automaton melee skill, but can be resisted based on current TP. 100% TP: 50% chance of dealing 1/4 base damage (~1/12 max HP), 200% TP: 25% chance of dealing 1/4 base damage (may be 1/2, I'll have to do some testing here to determine if it's the same resistance or not), 300% TP: 0% chance of resistance. Additionally, base damage is added cumulatively to the damage dealt based on missing HP.

If anyone else wants to test this theory too, more data will always be welcome.

edit: due to me being a dumbass, I JUST noticed that harle/waker has 365 melee skill. I changed heads to valoredge (for more light slots) to boost HP, but noticed the change in melee skill to 370, so I figured wtf. I tried it. Result? 370 damage. Took off cirque +2 pants, damage? 360. So Magic Mortar Floor = Current Auto Melee Skill.

Of course, there's more to it than that, since people are reporting numbers in the 400s, but vs tw bunnies in ronf, the damage is 100% consistent. I still have a lot more things to test, though

edit 2: ok, the 100~200 TP resistance window applies to ALL damage for the ws. I used DEA to activate with 31% HP, then proceeded to do 20 more magic mortars. damage was again consistent, but was also , again, resisted literally half the time. 10 ws came out 811 damage, 10 came out 200 damage. I've never seen magic mortar resist before, and I don't think I've read anything about anyone getting magic mortar to randomly do 1/4 damage vs anything normal... I'm flabbergasted.

Additionally, I tested with increasing the puppet's max HP by 200, and base damage didn't flinch, it was static 370 damage (when it didn't resist for 92 damage) with valorwaker and af3+2 pants at both 1051 HP and 1267 hp.

What the fuck did they do to this ws...

edit 3: done testing for today, magic mortar has given me a migraine.

edit 4:

Ok, smn's have blood pacts, bst has sic/ready, drg has w/e their forced breath JA is called. I want some pup love. Let's axe cool down in favor of something like this:

Striking Maneuver: The Player chooses one of the weaponskills currently available to the automaton and forces the automaton to execute it. The automaton must have at least 100 TP for this ability to be successful.

Get rid of random weaponskilling at random TP%. Get rid of maneuver priority. Just give us WS like all the other g'damn pet jobs have, simple, easily controlled, and so much less aggravating.

[Dfoley]

tl;dr:
Inhibitor:
0 FM: STP +5
1 FM: STP +15
2 FM: STP +25
3 FM: STP +40

Interesting that i would get 5/14/24/38 with soul soother. Maybe it depends on the frame?



Also missing from your OP:
Elemental Recast is the same as Enhancing (they're separate timers, but the same length), and healing/na recasts are the same length, but shorter than elemental, ~6 seconds.

and we still need to do some work with magic mortar (I'm gonna do that next)

With which head? Or are all heads on 15 sec for elemental spells now?

Same with other spells are they all independent of the head now?

[Theytak]

Interesting that i would get 5/14/24/38 with soul soother. Maybe it depends on the frame?



With which head? Or are all heads on 15 sec for elemental spells now?

Same with other spells are they all independent of the head now?

the fact that you got 5/14/24/38 can be attributed to the probability of the frames not actually having 400 delay, and rounding errors in your math somewhere, 5/14/24/38 makes absolutely no sense and is completely unlike anything SE would do. As for whether the casting times are different, I hadn't thought of that. That's something we'll need to look into. My comment though was related to stormwaker head.

[Dfoley]

updated first post with inhibitor and casting times

[Dfoley]

Figured out the store tp thing, missing a parentheses was causing it to floor to early.

I am getting the same values of 5/15/25/40 with 400 delay

[Dfoley]

Cure magic on soul soother is as low as 15 sec as high as 20
global recast is exactly 10 seconds (possibly whats blocking healing)
enfeebles are 10 sec

enhancing > healing.... 25% hp and it casts haste on me instead of cure....wtf


/rage face

reported this as a bug, im so sick of the stupidity. This should never have happened. Between this and a global recast for spells, its screwing our automaton over hardcore.

[Dfoley]

okay, this is beyond frustrating.

Trying to test damage guage and how it is supposed to reduce the recast on cures.

The issue is that base recast is 15 seconds, global recast is 10 seconds

99% of cures are landing at 20s with/without it because at 10s global recast is up but cure recast isnt, so it goes to casting enfeebles/buffs/na.

We really need damage guage to:
1) actually prioritize cureing (aka if it could cure/na/haste....make it pick cure)
2) stop wasting mp on enfeebles when light maneuvers are up

best i can tell:
damage guage -1/-2/-3/-4 seconds of cures

cures are 15 sec recast -> with 1 light i can get it down to 13 if the mob stays debuffed >< with 3 light up i cant beat the global recast of 10 seconds so it has to be longer than that (-4 would put you at 11 second recast).

[Dfoley]

enhancing recast is >10, <20

global recast is making this a pain to test

[Dfoley]

OKay, found a use for tactical processor.

Took 20 time stamps for casting, range was from 8-12
With tactical processor it was from 8-10 with 0 ice man up
with tactical processor + 3 ice it was between 8-9 sec recast

Global recast (for whm and rdm) is 8 seconds minimum

[Dfoley]

30 sec cool down on nukes (blm head)

[xbobx]

that is not good

[Dfoley]

Okay not sure how to calculate fast cast sense i am NOT a mage :-p

Text for start of cast - time when pet turned yellow - time when msg showed in log


no MB 13 - 24 - 28 (11 sec till yellow 15 sec till msg)
mb +0 40 - 50 - 54 (10 sec till yellow 14 sec till msg) (10% ~ 6.6%)
mb +1 36 - 44 - 48 (8 sec till yellow 12 sec till msg) (28% ~20%)
mb +2 49 - 56 - 00 (7 sec till yellow 11 sec till msg) (36%~ 26%)
mb +3 45 - 51 - 55 (6 sec till yellow 10 sec till msg) (45%~ 33%)


So depending on how you calculate fast cast (to the yellow aura around pet, or until the text log) 3x ice is either 45 or 33%, which stacks with optic fiber ><. You know, just in case your testing.

With rounding and errors it is most likely:
10/25/35/45

edit : my table looks like balls...

[Babekeke]

Shouldn't this thread have gone into the test server forum?

[Spiritreaver]

Shouldn't this thread have gone into the test server forum?
While the info on bugs/things broken/flat out screwed up should be reported in the test server forum, i think that the good hard testing and communication between the actual players is fine right here where it is.

No need to clutter up the test server forum with anything other than the hard-ish conclusions of what is NOT working as intended. And that info is being hammered out here. Of course that's just my opinion.

And a quick thanks to all you guys doing the rigorous testing. I'd be doing some myself if i hadn't been feeling half-in the-grave the last month. Keep up the good work guys/gals.

[Blueyes]

Get rid of random weaponskilling at random TP%. Get rid of maneuver priority. Just give us WS like all the other g'damn pet jobs have, simple, easily controlled, and so much less aggravating.

I would like to add that I do agree with this. A few days ago I was having fun with Sharpshot in Zeruhn Mines and a few too many times my automation would use Barrage just before deciding to weaponskill, hardly giving me any time at all to put a Wind Maneuver back up, which would then result in the automaton using Daze due to Thunder Maneuver being up. I could be throwing in Dark Maneuver to make sure at least Armor Piercer goes off as a backup, but I found myself hesitant to use anything more than Wind Maneuvers to make sure Armor Shatterer would trigger reliably. Or else I would need to always be on guard to throw a Wind Maneuver back up when TP is ready. In general it's problematic and it shouldn't be so stressing to make sure the automaton works the way we want it to.

[Dfoley]

Shouldn't this thread have gone into the test server forum?

If you go actually look....
there is a thread in the bug section where theytak and I have reported the bugs and a second thread in the feedback section where we have complained/suggested things that we have concluded from here.

The vast majority of the things in this thread dont need to be reported to the developers. They already know the % of armor plate and fast cast on mana booster, that is more beneficial for the community

[Dfoley]

Update on JP thread about known issues:

1) Cure still not being priority: Their response "use a damage guage + 2 or more light maneuvers to make cure take priority". They are considering lowering it to 1+ light maneuvers

2) They know about it trying to erase sleep (not sure about it trying to erase aura affects)

3) harle head + harle body wont cast. And harly head + any body (mage or range) wont cast or range.

4)They are still recommending using scanner to test a mobs resistance while casting silence on mobs ><

5) something about shield bash, and it not going off in time unless its a long casting spell.

[Dohati]

4)They are still recommending using scanner to test a mobs resistance while casting silence on mobs ><

would that actually do anything about your puppet casting silence on regular crabs etc? i'm guessing absolutely not

[Lessina]

Fooling around with the Drum Magazine, Each wind seems to cut off about 5 seconds of RA delay. With Turbo Charger and Pantin Dastanas SS was making a Ranged Attack and a Melee Attack at about the same time. No swing of the weapon would display, but an attack would be made in the chat log.

[xbobx]

Lol they are considering it? Hello SE it shouldn't be that way in the first place you tools.

[Dfoley]

Fooling around with the Drum Magazine, Each wind seems to cut off about 5 seconds of RA delay. With Turbo Charger and Pantin Dastanas SS was making a Ranged Attack and a Melee Attack at about the same time. No swing of the weapon would display, but an attack would be made in the chat log.

From first post in thread

drum magazine - 20/15/10/5 <-- will need to go back and confirm now that i can do times better.

[Theytak]

Update on JP thread about known issues:

1) Cure still not being priority: Their response "use a damage guage + 2 or more light maneuvers to make cure take priority". They are considering lowering it to 1+ light maneuvers

2) They know about it trying to erase sleep (not sure about it trying to erase aura affects)

3) harle head + harle body wont cast. And harly head + any body (mage or range) wont cast or range.

4)They are still recommending using scanner to test a mobs resistance while casting silence on mobs ><

5) something about shield bash, and it not going off in time unless its a long casting spell.

1) *Sigh* that's just stupid. It should be the exact opposite; we should need a maneuver to prioritize -na's, over cures, not the other way around. HEALING MY HP is ALWAYS more beneficial to my survival than removing a status effect when under 50% HP, and almost always more beneficial over 50%. There is not a single healer in this game who would honestly choose to blindna/paralyna/silena/cursna/viruna/stona/erase/poisona INSTEAD of cure IV/V/VI when the target in question is in red HP. Not one, INCLUDING NPC FELLOWS. The fact that this is apparently the INTENDED way automatons work is not an acceptable answer. I'm not going to be happy with it until it's Cure > status removal at all HP%, with status removal becoming top priority if, and ONLY if there are more water maneuvers than light maneuvers.

2) Honestly though, if they can fix this to what it should be, casting Cure I when slept, I'd be hard pressed to believe they can't make the cure selection a little more intelligent, especially given that npc fellows have had the exact cure selection we've been asking for for years. If the automaton can determine which specific nuke from stone I to thunder V will remove the remaining HP of a monster (if unresisted), there's no reason it shouldn't be able to also determine the inverse for players; which cure is needed to restore x amount of missing HP.

3) Good, it's a bug. At least it makes testing magic mortar more convenient by removing offensive spells from morethan one head/frame combo (VE/storm beingthe other), thus allowing a little more freedom with attachment selection for testing.

4) This whole "well just equip scanner and that should fix it" crap is absolutely unacceptable, and they need to realize it. We shouldn't be required to waste slots to fix an AI problem that shouldn't exist in the first place. It's like preventing the player from casting certain necessary spells if they don't have a piece of gear equipped. I don't mean like impact from twilight cloak, I mean like a whm having to have full AF (including af weapon) equipped in order to cast any cure spell. It's just obnoxious.

5) no idea.

[xbobx]

I think we just have to come to terms with that fact that the remaining staff of FFXI are family members of top SE executives that took programing/customer service/project management through an internet course and were unemployable at Capcom, Sony etc.

[xbobx]

Lol why did this get moved

[Nezha]

New update on Puppetmaster Automaton Testing:

-Phalanx consistantly absorbs 31 damage against 1000 Needles.

-Automaton's Stoneskin (casted on Master) IS effected by Enhances "Stoneskin" Effect Gear!

-Automaton's Shock Absorber seems to absorb random amounts between 279-283 damage though on 3 occasions it absorbed 350-363 damage...

Theoretical Calculations: Stone Gorget + Earthcry Earring + Haven Hose + Siegel Sash = 420 Damage Absorbed + 31 Phalanx = 451 Damage Shield!

More to come so stay tuned!

[Babekeke]

Lol why did this get moved

Because everything in this thread relates to things only relevant on the test server, which is what this forum is for.
Strange that the mods didn't add a comment when they moved it though.

[Gael]

-Phalanx consistantly absorbs 31 damage against 1000 Needles.

-Automaton's Stoneskin (casted on Master) IS effected by Enhances "Stoneskin" Effect Gear!

-Automaton's Shock Absorber seems to absorb random amounts between 279-283 damage though on 3 occasions it absorbed 350-363 damage...

Theoretical Calculations: Stone Gorget + Earthcry Earring + Haven Hose + Siegel Sash = 420 Damage Absorbed + 31 Phalanx = 451 Damage Shield!

Phalanx is affected by masted gear ?
(a pup can get +50 enhancing skill with gear)

[Dfoley]

Because everything in this thread relates to things only relevant on the test server, which is what this forum is for.
Strange that the mods didn't add a comment when they moved it though.

Sounds more like someone like you requested it to be moved without reading the threads already in the test forum...

Being as nothing in this thread is relevant to either the feedback or the bug threads already created that already contained all relevant information.

[Nezha]

I'm pretty sure this won't work, seeing is I have no enhancing skill to begin with anyway. If there was an "Enhances Phalanx Effect/Potency" Gear then yes, but my Phalanx/Stoneskin potency are calculated from the Automaton's Magic Skill and affected by "Enhance Stoneskin Effect" gear since I take the effect of Stoneskin. I believe the same would be true for Stoneskin-ga cast by a SCH (i.e. Stoneskin calculated from SCH's enhancing magic + whatever Enh. SS Effect the receiver has (and/or caster?) has.

[Nezha]

I wanted to take the moment to thank SquareEnix for the changes they have made thus far. I have only been posting my suggestions and haven't taken any time to express my gratitude. I am in the process of actively updating and compiling any bugs/suggestions/etc. that I come across in-game, in-forum, or by word of mouth that has been tested by other PUPs on Undine or in the PUP-Testing LS (FashionSenseless).

To the people wanting Stoneskin and/or Phalanx on Soulsoother

I hope SquareEnix DOES NOT add Stoneskin and/or Phalanx to Soulsoother frame. This would be awesome... it really would, but it would steal Stormwakers new-found light. Instead add Protectra(I~V)/Shellra(I~V) to Soulsoother for when the PUP is in a party. Before, Stormwaker was a pretty unused frame beside when alternating between Stormwaker & Spiritreaver frame for double nukes during the downtime of Deactivate.

Attachments:

Most of the attachments as there are, are great, though I think Damage Gauge/Equalizer/Strobe (giving Strobe a reduced recast time when using Fire Maneuvers, such as how Barrier Module is to Shield Bash) could be a bit better.

If SE could only do/fix/change one more thing between now and Lv.99(beside what they have already done)

I would love to see either a revamp of Harlequin in the case that they will not make any new Head/Frames (giving him access to dark magic/ranged attacks via a Bow/Gun he pulls out, or maybe his has pops off and he uses an arm cannon (lol *jokes*)) or a final automaton (he could be a universal automaton, but this might defeat the point of revamping Harlequin, so every pet has a purpose and is an inticing option, so instead a new pet job concepts: MNK, (True) DRK, (True) PLD, SAM (I don't think any other job could be feasibly implemented or created without upsetting the balance between jobs such as DNC, BRD, COR, NIN, etc. even though I'd love them).

As for the new Puppetmaster two hour:

Two Automatons is what I'd really like to see (of course the second Automaton being active only for the time limit of the new 2hr ability). I'd imagine it Summoning Ovjang or Mnejing (or Alexander *jokes* lol even though he is a pseudo-Automaton... really just want to see summoners flip out for even suggesting this lol <3) this could be completely random or chosen, and the Ovjang/Mnejing would either operate completely independently, the effect of elemental maneuvers would be shared in between both automatons, or after choosing a maneuver you would then choose a target (Mnejing/Ovjang or your own Automaton to take the effect of the maneuver).

I really can't image what our new 2hr could be besides two automatons, seeing as SquareEnix opened that can of worms with Empress Nashmera (which by the way, if you guys [SE] are planning on making a final AF set (aka AF4), something like Nashmeras white outfit wouldnt be horrible... enough with the rediculous colors, I want to be proud in my gear >.>). I would NOT like to see our pets recieve respective two hours(i.e. Eagle Eye Shot, Benediction, etc.) due to the fact that it would upset the balance I know SE wishes to maintain between jobs and I'm getting a little tired of recycled content.

Another extended idea is that for all jobs (WAR,MNK,PUP,etc.) the new two hour has two different effects or an added effect when combined with the original two hour (i.e. Might Strikes + (New WAR 2HR) = One ability, while (New WAR 2HR) alone = another ability or lessered effect that the the combinded version.

Other Puppetmasters merits I foresee/would be useful|awesome|etc.:

-Merits to reduce recast of "Maneuvers" (all or by element)

-Merits to increase the duration of "Maneuvers"

-reducing "overload" rate via merits [can never have enough overload rate down especially with the new PUPdate coming :)]

-new JAs (We only have 8 [incl. Maintenence, not incl. Overdrive (2hr)])

-merits that Reduces Automaton decision making time (i.e. Time interval between spells, abilities, and TP ability usage)

-Reducing Automaton Attack Speed/Ranged Attack speed delay

-Enhancing the effect or reduces recast of Tactical Switch and Maintenence(Such as adding regen effect to Maintenence)

-Meriting Deus Ex Automata so pet is spawned with more HP/MP

-Merit that boosts the effect of all equipped attachments by X%

-Merits that Boost Automaton HP/MP amounts

-Merits that give Automatons access to new spells/job abilities/weapon skills

-More merits being able to be added to Category I and II (Lv. 75) Merits

Can't really think of anything else here...

Anyone elses thoughts?

[Dfoley]

Where as I would hate to see 2 pets as a two hour. It would just bring on tooooo much pain and complication.

[Nezha]

I think theoretical options above aren't complicated at all. Plus Ovjang and Mnejing are awesome state-of-the-art Automatons that probably have abilities that exceed the realms of our ordinary Automatons.

[Kristal]

I think theoretical options above aren't complicated at all. Plus Ovjang and Mnejing are awesome state-of-the-art Automatons that probably have abilities that exceed the realms of our ordinary Automatons.

They got HD televisions in their head :D

[Dohati]

I think theoretical options above aren't complicated at all. Plus Ovjang and Mnejing are awesome state-of-the-art Automatons that probably have abilities that exceed the realms of our ordinary Automatons.

people who havent done the ToAU missions will have no idea who they even are, and there's no reason we should have access to commanding them. thats like prishe coming out and smacking the mob around a bit every 2 hrs. that being said, i do like the 2 automaton idea, but it just doesn't make sense really since with the ffxi lore, your automaton is kinda like a spirit that inhabits the robot bodies you provide for it and it doesn't seem like it could be in 2 places at once, inhabiting 2 frames.

[Babekeke]

Sounds more like someone like you requested it to be moved without reading the threads already in the test forum...

Being as nothing in this thread is relevant to either the feedback or the bug threads already created that already contained all relevant information.

In which case, you created another thread that wasn't required... because both the other threads already contain all of the relevant information. In your own words.

[Dfoley]

/sigh troll face. How can someone pretend to be such a know it all when they clearly know very little about forums ;-/.

/insert log i hate trolls post

/delete post and realize i am just feeding the troll

Okay bob take it away cause you said it best

[esoR]

@nezha - most those covered by more merits, would be better served by adding new gear/attachments. splitting up our possible amount of merits into adjusting (individual) maneuver recast would probably severely limit the trade off of something much more useful, and could probably easily be implemented in lvl 99 gear.

[brayen]

What is the obsession with a 2hr that uses 2 pets? i find it very silly. It would be on par with having the OLD drg two hour. Fact remains the puppet is the lesser damage dealer of the pair adding a 2nd one for a small duration will be next to worthless. If you want to shoot around a viable 2hr beef up overdrive, make it boost attachments permanently[while 2hr is active] w/o needing maneuvers, make it have a worthwild duration, stuff like that would be much more reasonable. best i can see form 2 puppets is getting extra nuking powers when you arn't meleeing something as a master.

[Camate]

Howdy! Sorry for the delay on this information about puppetmaster!



Will anything be done about the order of magic casting (Enhancing magic > Status Ailment healing magic > cure-related magic)?

Actually, with the current system, by having more than two light maneuvers, curing becomes priority. In order to make it even easier to use, we will be looking into adjustments to ease up on the requirements a bit and make it so cure-related magic is a priority when having more than one light maneuver.


There seems to be a bug where the automaton tries to use Erase to cure Sleep.

We have confirmed this is indeed a bug, so we will be fixing this.


Depending on the frame/head setup, magic and ranged attacks are not taking place properly, is this a bug?

As you have pointed out, we determined that there is a bug where magic and ranged attacks are not being executed properly when using certain combinations of frames/heads. We will be fixing this.



It seems like the frequency of Cure V use has gone up, but at times when Cure VI would be better, for example, when I use HP boosts in Abyssea, my automaton casts Cure V. How is this being determined?

The decision of which cure to use is based on the ratio of the player’s max HP to the amount of damage sustained, so in the case of boosting your HP in Abyssea, Cure VI will not be used too often. We will be making adjustments so when you have a Damage Gauge equipped, Cure VI is selected when your HP falls below a certain point.


Soulsoother behavior after being called is quite strange. Sometimes it just stands there not casting and the reactions are very slow.

We tried testing this out but didn’t see any of the listed symptoms. If there are similar cases, please let us know the specifics so we can help out.


Is it possible to make the reaction time for Shield Bash faster? I can’t stop WS and magic. Actually, I don’t think it even reacts to magic…

After checking this out I found that when facing high level monsters, it will only react to magic that takes a while to cast. We will try to make adjustments so that automatons will react with Shield Bash for magic, except those that have extremely short cast times.


Why is my automaton pretty much only casting Silence for enfeebling magic, especially on notorious monsters that resist it?

After checking this out, it appears that the behavior of their enfeebling magic is a bit off and we corrected it. We made it so that when equipping a scanner, the magic usage would be more accurate. This goes for all enfeebling magic and not just Silence.

These adjustments and bug fixes will be implemented with the next test server update.

[Dfoley]

Actually, with the current system, by having more than two light maneuvers, curing becomes priority. In order to make it even easier to use, we will be looking into adjustments to ease up on the requirements a bit and make it so cure-related magic is a priority when having more than one light maneuver.

Could you make it just a single light maneuver and not 2+. There really is no reason to have 2 light maneuvers up just to make sure its healing... In fact, if you could do the following:
1 light maneuver with damage gauge equipped stops all enfeebles and makes cure> status cures (aka blindna) > enhancing.

I dont know about you but if i am at 25% hp i really dont need haste > blindna > then cure.



After checking this out, it appears that the behavior of their enfeebling magic is a bit off and we corrected it. We made it so that when equipping a scanner, the magic usage would be more accurate. This goes for all enfeebling magic and not just Silence.

How about you make it so it stops casting silence on mobs like crabs/beetles that have no spells as well while at it. Please please please!

[Ciecle]

Will SE make oils stackable to 99 with the JA maintenance coming up?

[Psion]

Agreed, make it so that with ONE light maneuver, cure casting is prioritized over everything. There is absolutely no reason to make it different. Forcing us to put up another light maneuver when we're in the red is added delay and risk of dying, and that's assuming we aren't even paralyzed/slept/terrorized/something that prevents us from using another light maneuver.

I mean, come on, we're talking about red mage and white mage automatons here. The primary purpose of a healer is to... well, heal. By default, soulsoother should prioritize curing magic over everything else, and red mage should prioritize it with one light maneuver.

This really shouldn't be a difficult concept to grasp. Come on Camate, threaten the dev team with your pom pom or something until they change it to requiring 0-1 light maneuvers only, to force healing magic as top priority. We shouldn't have to risk overloading with a frame just to make it do what it's primary purpose is, and no, cooldown is not a valid substitute when people's lives depend on you.

We believe you can do it!

[brayen]

Could you make it just a single light maneuver and not 2+. There really is no reason to have 2 light maneuvers up just to make sure its healing... In fact, if you could do the following:
1 light maneuver with damage gauge equipped stops all enfeebles and makes cure> status cures (aka blindna) > enhancing.

I dont know about you but if i am at 25% hp i really dont need haste > blindna > then cure.



While i agree that 2 light is WAY over the top just to make sure it is performing right, i think removing all enfeebles with the set up would be bad. prioritize the casts sure but would suck to lose out all enfeebles just to make sure you can get your cures.

[Babekeke]

How about you make it so it stops casting silence on mobs like crabs/beetles that have no spells as well while at it. Please please please!

And apply the same to fellowship NPCs! (please). Though I think it won't be possible, since the current coding appears to be that if a mob has mp, pet will cast silence. Crabs and beetles are generally Paladin mobs.

[Kristal]

Does the automaton still try to cure aura/sphere status effects on the test server? I've fought a few mobs like Amun on the normal server (solo, PUP/NIN), and it's rather annoying the automaton is trying to Poisona a debuff that's expiring within 2 ticks AND is reapplied the next tick anyway...

Also, what IS the term SE uses for the continuous aoe effects? Players usually use "aura", but some newer gear has similar effects called "sphere".

[Dfoley]

Yes it still tries to cure aura status, I don't think there is a way to code for it not to since the status is "poison" and not "Aura: Poison" the pet just sees poison and tries to cure it.

I would love for it to be different, but I think we might be stuck with that.

[Cyranda]

If Cooldown is a prelude to attachments that increase overload chance (through focus on reusing maneuvers or just increasing burden per maneuver), they should be absolutely amazing and not just fiddling with numbers or stealth normalizing of damage.

I remember saying this back in September, and though I thought about it in relation to attachments, I knew the developers were going to try to do something to force PUP to use Cooldown despite PUP objections to the ability. It's the case of a developer designing an ability and, instead of listening to players who say they don't like it, trying to make it "attractive" by making it a critical ability and doing something obnoxious in the process.

In the case of having to put up three light maneuvers to get the WHM puppet to prioritize healing, that's just ridiculous. Two isn't much better. Why on Vana'diel would the developers think it was a good idea for a PUP to spend a minimum of ten seconds (20 with 3 maneuvers) trying to get a WHM puppet to do its primary duty in addition to making sure that it also can't have both a dark and an ice maneuver while doing so (thereby not allowing it to refresh its MP or spend less/cast faster). What else should a PUP with a WHM automaton be doing? Certainly it shouldn't be trying to get the puppet to actually Cure someone for far longer than that person probably has to live and then risking making it stand there casting Protect/Shell/Haste or removing status effects if an ability with a 3 minute Cooldown isn't up.

What kind of engineer/goldsmith (or whatever Ghatsad is) would design a WHITE MAGE whose last priority is to cast Cure? One who likes to see other people die?

[Treyd]

Yes it still tries to cure aura status, I don't think there is a way to code for it not to since the status is "poison" and not "Aura: Poison" the pet just sees poison and tries to cure it.

I would love for it to be different, but I think we might be stuck with that.

The weird thing is this: When I am inflicted with paralyze, the auto casts paralyna to cure it. When I am inflicted with a paralyze "aura" the auto casts Erase for no effect. It has to be seeing something differently between the two. I wouldn't think it would be too hard to home in on this difference, similar to how they plan to fix the erasing sleep problem.

I can still manage a cure between erases so it's not game-breaking, but if we're going to do all this testing we might as well try to get everything we can right!

[Laxedrane]

Preliminary findings, Magic Mortar can be resisted, and has a HIGH rate of resistance.

Harlequin Head, Stormwaker Frame, 1051 HP (only HP boost was animator +1) 10 WS vs level 0 wild rabbits in west ronfaure. Variance in TP has no effect on damage.
Magic Mortar: 91, 365, 365, 91, 365, 91, 91, 365, 365, 91. 91 = 1/4 damage (91x4 = 364, + decimal rounds up to 365 since it's taking a quarter of an odd number)

HYPOTHESIS (Read: NOT proven fact, but rather, educated guess as to what the out come will be based on 5 and a half years of playing pup and crunching pup numbers, that I will attempt to confirm/disprove via testing)

Base damage = current automaton melee skill, but can be resisted based on current TP. 100% TP: 50% chance of dealing 1/4 base damage (~1/12 max HP), 200% TP: 25% chance of dealing 1/4 base damage (may be 1/2, I'll have to do some testing here to determine if it's the same resistance or not), 300% TP: 0% chance of resistance. Additionally, base damage is added cumulatively to the damage dealt based on missing HP.

If anyone else wants to test this theory too, more data will always be welcome.

edit: due to me being a dumbass, I JUST noticed that harle/waker has 365 melee skill. I changed heads to valoredge (for more light slots) to boost HP, but noticed the change in melee skill to 370, so I figured wtf. I tried it. Result? 370 damage. Took off cirque +2 pants, damage? 360. So Magic Mortar Floor = Current Auto Melee Skill.

Of course, there's more to it than that, since people are reporting numbers in the 400s, but vs tw bunnies in ronf, the damage is 100% consistent. I still have a lot more things to test, though

edit 2: ok, the 100~200 TP resistance window applies to ALL damage for the ws. I used DEA to activate with 31% HP, then proceeded to do 20 more magic mortars. damage was again consistent, but was also , again, resisted literally half the time. 10 ws came out 811 damage, 10 came out 200 damage. I've never seen magic mortar resist before, and I don't think I've read anything about anyone getting magic mortar to randomly do 1/4 damage vs anything normal... I'm flabbergasted.

Additionally, I tested with increasing the puppet's max HP by 200, and base damage didn't flinch, it was static 370 damage (when it didn't resist for 92 damage) with valorwaker and af3+2 pants at both 1051 HP and 1267 hp.

What the fuck did they do to this ws...

edit 3: done testing for today, magic mortar has given me a migraine.

edit 4:

Ok, smn's have blood pacts, bst has sic/ready, drg has w/e their forced breath JA is called. I want some pup love. Let's axe cool down in favor of something like this:

Striking Maneuver: The Player chooses one of the weaponskills currently available to the automaton and forces the automaton to execute it. The automaton must have at least 100 TP for this ability to be successful.

Get rid of random weaponskilling at random TP%. Get rid of maneuver priority. Just give us WS like all the other g'damn pet jobs have, simple, easily controlled, and so much less aggravating.



Based on this, sounds like to me they turned magic mortar into a true elemental weaponskill. Have you tried to test it with tranquilizer, loudspeakers, manabooster, and mattk or macc claws? Might also be worth checking if it does amber in abyssea now.

[autobot]

Soulsoother should have priority of curing without light maneuvers period especially if you are below 80% hp. Its a whm head. Status removal should come second, only gaining priority with 1 or more water maneuvers only taking priority if more water maneuvers are used than light when hp is below 80%. When HP is above 80% i think its reasonable to have status removal/enhancing above curing priority. In no way shape or form should this head not have 100% curing priority when HP is 50% or less. Im not going to tell my WHM to wait till i get into critical before they cure me.

Stormwaker should prioritize enfeebles, healing with a light maneuver, then enhancing with a water. And as above when HP is below 50% it should have 100% priority for curing. No RDM is going to enfeeble over keeping their party members alive.

Spiritreaver should prioritize nuking over everything unless MP is below 20% or possibly lower. A dark maneuver should throw drain/aspir as priority (providing it has less ice maneuvers), then enfeebles. If my puppet needs MP that badly I'm most likely just going to deactivate anyway.

Whichever head is equipped should always have highest priority for whatever job its mimicking. If the purpose of maneuvers is to change the behavior of the puppet then we will do so with the use of those maneuvers. We dont need the puppet doing useless things over important things. Healing should never take a back seat to anything especially in low HP situations.

And i really dont see how its hard to get this right. In FFXII with the use of gambits my party members knew exact priority of what i wanted over what and this should be no exception especially with curing.

[Chamaan]

I hate having to ask more than once for a Whm to cure me. I love when I don't have to ask at all. That's what you're effectively telling us we need to do: ask our puppets more than once to do the job we geared them to do. Soulsoother should require 1 maneuver to prioritize curing above all else, Stormwaker 2, and Damage Gauge should lower the requirement by 1 maneuver just from being equipped.

The automatons are supposed to have their AI modeled after the finest mages in the Empire. I've always thought that this meant that the Aht Urhgan Empire had the stupid mages to ever pick up a staff. Now you're tinkering with the AI, make it not suck, yeah? If you really want us to use Cooldown that badly, lower maneuvers to 5 seconds. Or give us a Hasso style stance for our puppets that doubles burden per maneuver. Just give it to us and see how it works out, I mean that's the point of the test server, isn't it?

[Dohati]

And i really dont see how its hard to get this right. In FFXII with the use of gambits my party members knew exact priority of what i wanted over what and this should be no exception especially with curing.

yeah, i've actually been thinking about this specifically. if SE can't make automatons do what we want, then why don't we just get puppet gambits? then everyone can be happy with their automatons' priorities. change them at the automaton workshop in whitegate or something.

[autobot]

Gambits for the automatons would be great. It would still give that customization that PUP has, plus its like you are "programming" your puppet which still fits the style of it being a machine. And the maneuvers are still useful in the way that you use them to override the gambits you have in place to further customize for the battle at hand.

At least this way if we can put curing above everything else or whatever else we want.

Still though it shouldn't be this hard to use logic to see how things should work. Especially when it comes to using the red and white heads. We use these for the purpose to receive cures, otherwise we use a different head. I think even the Fellows have a better curing AI than automatons. at least they cure when you take damage.

You really shouldn't need more than one maneuver in any case to get it to do its most basic use like nuking or curing. Reduce the timer on maneuvers and that will become more understandable but having to wait 10 seconds (for 2 maneuvers, 20 if you don't already have one up) can mean life or death. I never understood why maneuvers had such a long recast anyway. I think 2-3 seconds is long enough. Spam your maneuvers too much and you overload, so its not like you can sit there spamming over and over again anyway. And cool down would have a purpose.

[Psion]

I hate having to ask more than once for a Whm to cure me. I love when I don't have to ask at all. That's what you're effectively telling us we need to do: ask our puppets more than once to do the job we geared them to do. Soulsoother should require 1 maneuver to prioritize curing above all else, Stormwaker 2, and Damage Gauge should lower the requirement by 1 maneuver just from being equipped.

The automatons are supposed to have their AI modeled after the finest mages in the Empire. I've always thought that this meant that the Aht Urhgan Empire had the stupid mages to ever pick up a staff. Now you're tinkering with the AI, make it not suck, yeah? If you really want us to use Cooldown that badly, lower maneuvers to 5 seconds. Or give us a Hasso style stance for our puppets that doubles burden per maneuver. Just give it to us and see how it works out, I mean that's the point of the test server, isn't it?

See, now this is what I'm talking about. Better yet, make maneuvers 1 second recast, which lets us spam maneuvers if needed, and also makes cooldown useful. Hasso type stance sounds neat too, or better yet a stance that doubles burden generated, but allows our pet to be hit with songs/AoE buffs/sambas/etc like any other party member. If you did that, I can gaurantee cooldown would find use.

And yes to the lowrering light maneuver requirement to 1 or 0 for forcing cure. Honestly, I saw what you said about damage gauge lowering the requirement by 1 maneuver by being equipped, so that with your suggestion of stormwaker needing 2 and then damage guage lowering it to one... But I don't trust the dev team to see that, considering they're still pulling this crap on us. Lower it to 1 or less for both frames I say, because obviously it would be less work than recoding damage gauge even more, and less chance of a lost in translation error.

[Tetsujin]

hate to bug the devs like this but... how soon will we see these updates implemented into the non-test server gameplay?


Also, for what it's worth I think that these adjustments are worthy of celebration. There's obviously a lot of work put into making these adjustments, so I'm in hardly a mood to complain/ask for more. Keep up the good work!

[Nezha]

-Current function of Damage Gauge-

Soulsoother [Stormwaker]:

0 Maneuvers: Enh. > Enf. > Cure [Enh. > Enf. > Elemental > Cure]

1 Maneuvers: Enh. > Cure > Enh. > Cure [Enh. > Cure > Enh. > Cure] (Cuts off Enf./Ele. magic from this point onward unless Cure timer down and all buffs are up)

2 Maneuvers: Cure > Enh. > Cure > Enh. [Cure> Enh. > Cure > Enh.]

3 Maneuvers: Cure VI > Cure V > Enh. > Cure V [Cure IV > Cure IV> Cure IV] (Until Masters HP reaches a certain threshold, then returns to using Enh./Enf. again even with 3 Light Maneuvers. This threshold is a lower HP percent for Stormwaker (~50%) than Soulsoother (~75%))

Overrides:

-If the monster can be one shotted Elemental Magic will override everything

-If Cure recast is not ready in time for Global Cast Soulsoother moves on to Enh. (If buff is missing) > Enf. and Stormwaker moves on to Enh. (If buff is missing) > Enf. > Ele. ---- This is most apparent with Soulsoother + 3 Light Maneuvers, Soulsoother will Cure VI > Cure V > then Enh(If buff is missing)/Enf. because Cure V recast is down and master doesn't meet the requirements for Cure VI > then Cure V again.

Suggestions:

1) Force Cure VI, even if master doesn't meet the requirements if Cure V recast timer is down and master is in need of a cure

2) Give Soulsoother access to Cure IV if master doesn't meet the requirements for Cure VI and Cure V recast timer is down.

3) Shift Damage Gauge "up" such that:

0 Maneuvers: Enh. > Enf. > Cure

1 Maneuver: Cure > Enh. > Cure > Enh. (Cuts off Enf./Ele. Magic from this point onward unless Cure timer is down and all buffs are up)

2 Maneuvers: Cure > Cure > Enh. (because of recast timers)> Cure (Cuts off Enh./Enf./Ele. onward unless cure timer is down)

3 Maneuvers: Cure > Cure > Cure > Cure (recast timers short enough for constant cure spamming)

---For those who believe haven't found a use for Cooldown (and I will say I did before also), you will definitely need it as well as other Overload Supressing gear/attachments next update, from testing the new attachment fixes (mainly speaking of Armor Plate I/II for PLD, Drum Magazine for RNG, and hopefully Damage Gauge if it gets fixed WHM and RDM frames), I find that the with 3 maneuvers + whatever attachment, the automaton performs near perfectly (exactly how'd we'd want/expect) and proportionately less with less maneuvers.---

Near Perfect Pet operation:

PLD tanks with near capped PDT-% (with proper gear) [82% to be exact, while cap is 87.5%)

RNG Ranged Attacks with 1-2 sec between the end of one ranged attack and the start of another [5 sec delay between the start of one ranged attack and the start of another to be exact]

WHM/RDM (if damage gauge is fixed) Prioritize Cure over EVERYTHING and have recast times short enough to spam Cures (i.e. Cure > Cure > Cure > Cure > continuing indefinitely or until MP runs out.)

[Dfoley]

Few issues with this... as I could not reproduce this...any you are missing -nas


-Current function of Damage Gauge-

Soulsoother [Stormwaker]:

0 Maneuvers: Enh. > Enf. >-na (and will continue to -na untill all debuffs are gone)> Cure [Enh. > Enf. > Elemental > Cure]

1 Maneuvers: Enh. > -na (and will continue to -na untill all debuffs are gone)> Cure > Enh. > Cure [Enh. > Cure > Enh. > Cure] (Cuts off Enf./Ele. magic from this point onward unless Cure timer down and all buffs are up)

2 Maneuvers: -na (and will continue to -na untill all debuffs are gone)> Cure > Enh. > Cure > Enh. [Cure> Enh. > Cure > Enh.]

3 Maneuvers: Cure VI > Cure V >-na > Enh. > Cure V [Cure IV > Cure IV> Cure IV] (Until Masters HP reaches a certain threshold, then returns to using Enh./Enf. again even with 3 Light Maneuvers. This threshold is a lower HP percent for Stormwaker (~50%) than Soulsoother (~75%))




As you can see the -na is a significant inhibitor to healing.
As far as 2 maneuvers I am not sure yours is correct because I was still getting haste at 25% hp with 2 light maneuvers up.



Suggestions:

1) Force Cure VI, even if master doesn't meet the requirements if Cure V recast timer is down and master is in need of a cut

2) Give Soulsoother access to Cure IV if master doesn't meet the requirements for Cure VI and Cure V recast timer is down.Fine with those two, as they make perfect sense when you consider what a real whm would do.

3) Shift Damage Gauge "up" such that:

0 Maneuvers: Enh. > Enf. > -na> Cure

1 Maneuver: Cure > -na/Enh. > Cure > Enh. (Cuts off Enf./Ele. Magic from this point onward unless Cure timer is down and all buffs are up)

2 Maneuvers: Cure > Cure > -na/Enh. (because of recast timers)> Cure (Cuts off Enh./Enf./Ele. onward unless cure timer is down)

3 Maneuvers: Cure > Cure > Cure > Cure (recast timers short enough for constant cure spamming)Pretty sure this is what you, me, jinte etc have all been saying from the start, just including -nas for clarity. If you are using a damage gauge with light maneuvers, no one wants enfeebles, they want that dang cure to save their life! Please dev's realize this.

[Nezha]

As far as 2 maneuvers I am not sure yours is correct because I was still getting haste at 25% hp with 2 light maneuvers up.

Did you mean 3 light Maneuvers? For two light maneuvers I was consistantly getting Healing > Enh. > Healing > Enh. where as one light meaneuver is Enh. > Healing > Enh. > Healing, which is pretty much the same thing if you just shift them up one spell. And not to mention I was in abyssea with HP+ Atmas on so I would have a lot more HP to be cured.

We can do some testing together if you online on the TServer. But how I did it was Deus > Role Reversal > Deactivate > Activate > Light Maneuver > Light Maneuver > Deploy and Record Spell Casts. Did this 5 times with the same result.

The only wierd one was 3 maneuvers for RDM frame because sometimes he Cure IV spam, and others he did some Enh. in between, but I noticed he only Cure IV spam until a certain HP threshold and then began to operate as if he only had 2 light maneuvers up even though there were three.

Thanks for adding the -na ... I just tested against Bats so they don't give many status effects. And your right about -na being a big inhibitor, if I do anything serious on the test server I don't really trust/rely on Soulsoother as much as I do my evasion gear/Stormwaker's buffs/status ailment healing items.

[Treyd]

On a testing Soulsoother note, has anyone actually gotten it to protect/shell/haste a full party or even 3+ members? I've done limited testing but have only gotten it to buff whoever the mob was currently targeting(similar to the way it does regen). If anyone is interested in testing I'll help if a time is set up for it.

Edit for random griping: Is there a way to change my main job on my profile to PUP 95? Getting tired of seeing RDM 91 when I rarely play it... -.-

[Dfoley]

harle works again! he was casting this morning for me with the updated test server. Shame they didnt post what the changed/fixed for pup so we know what to test.

[xbobx]

SE seems to have no clue at all how testing should work. SE to test properly it involved dissemination of information. Hello?

[Camate]

Just wanted to let you all know we confirmed a couple more issues with puppetmaster.




This is in regard to Soulsoother C-1000 malfunctioning.
The first enemy I confirmed this issue with was the crab from Walk of Echoes #1. This bug occurred even against weak opponents. The automaton would stop for about 3 seconds while facing the opponent right after summoning or cast a lot of spells after throwing down against the enemy. Attachments don’t seem to make a difference.


The above is from a post on the Japanese forum and we were able to confirm this bug, and we are working on a fix.



First, I feel like the effects of flame holder haven’t been changed.
Secondly, when you stack a wind maneuver with a drum magazine equipped, the rate for ranged attacks is not shortened.


This is also in regards to a Japanese post (above), but regarding flame holder, upon consultation with the development and QA teams, we decided that the effects of flame holder did not need any adjustment. Thus, for now the effects of flame holder are unchanged.

We confirmed a bug with drum magazine, so we are working on a fix. After this fix, the attack speed for ranged attacks will be slightly shortened when one wind maneuver is used. We will let you know when this change is implemented on the Test Server.

Please continue to let us know if you notice anything odd on the Test Server.

[Treyd]

It also appears that they fixed the auto trying to erase aura effects and sleep with the newest test server update. Good job SE! Now just make it easier to prioritize cures over -na and I'll be happy.

[Psion]

You mean cure over -na AND buffs. <_<;

[Treyd]

You mean cure over -na AND buffs. <_<;

Actually, I think they did something with that too already. Test it for yourself to make sure, but with haste off and about 50% HP I was able to get Soulsoother to cure before haste.. I made sure all timers were up.

[Dfoley]

Someone else needs to check but I was unable to get it to silence/addle beetles with any amount of maneuvers. So if someone can check crabs that would be great.

[Theytak]

Someone else needs to check but I was unable to get it to silence/addle beetles with any amount of maneuvers. So if someone can check crabs that would be great.

partial v i c t o r y ?

[Kaizersan]

Just tested it with scanner on it does not use silence or addle on crabs or beetles.

[Dohati]

Someone else needs to check but I was unable to get it to silence/addle beetles with any amount of maneuvers. So if someone can check crabs that would be great.

was this with or withour scanner? either way, freakin awesome!

[Kaizersan]

was this with or withour scanner? either way, freakin awesome!

You need the scanner on to get it to not cast those 2 spells on crabs and beetles.

[Juilan]

Just wanted to let you all know we confirmed a couple more issues with puppetmaster.




The above is from a post on the Japanese forum and we were able to confirm this bug, and we are working on a fix.



This is also in regards to a Japanese post (above), but regarding flame holder, upon consultation with the development and QA teams, we decided that the effects of flame holder did not need any adjustment. Thus, for now the effects of flame holder are unchanged.

We confirmed a bug with drum magazine, so we are working on a fix. After this fix, the attack speed for ranged attacks will be slightly shortened when one wind maneuver is used. We will let you know when this change is implemented on the Test Server.

Please continue to let us know if you notice anything odd on the Test Server.

Could you post the orginals too next time for us multilinguals?

[Dfoley]

Could you post the orginals too next time for us multilinguals?


What are you asking for? In his post he translated the original comments with the original posters names? What else is there to include?

And yes it was with scanner equipped. Without scanner it will cast them once all other debuffs are exhausted but wont move them to the top with wind/fire maneuvers so its still nice.

[Dohati]

What are you asking for? In his post he translated the original comments with the original posters names? What else is there to include?

And yes it was with scanner equipped. Without scanner it will cast them once all other debuffs are exhausted but wont move them to the top with wind/fire maneuvers so its still nice.

wait... does that mean they'll put silence and addle last on the list when the mob is a blm or something? /facepalm

[Dfoley]

No, havent tested it on mages yet, but on crabs/beetles its last unless you have scanner

[xbobx]

sounds like we are more or less good for this to be implemented on live server, little tweaks can be done later

[MDenham]

What are you asking for? In his post he translated the original comments with the original posters names? What else is there to include?He wanted to look at the untranslated versions of the posts. That's what the little double-arrowhead in a blue rectangle at the beginning of a quote is for, though: it links to the original post.

I'm not sure if it's sad on person X's part or sad on SE's part when person X doesn't trust SE's translation. :D

[Dfoley]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/16452-dev1035-%E3%82%B8%E3%83%A7%E3%83%96%E8%AA%BF%E6%95%B4%EF%BC%9A%E3%81%8B%E3%82%89%E3%81%8F%E3%82%8A%E5%A3%AB-%E3%83%86%E3%82%B9%E3%83%88%E3%82%B5%E3%83%BC%E3%83%90%E3%83%95%E3%82%A3%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E3%83%90%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF?p=221913#post221913

Worlds longest link, thanks to jp characters.

[Kristal]

Yes it still tries to cure aura status, I don't think there is a way to code for it not to since the status is "poison" and not "Aura: Poison" the pet just sees poison and tries to cure it.

I would love for it to be different, but I think we might be stuck with that.

If the automaton can see duration of debuffs (might need Damage Gauge), it could ignore those with a very short time time remaining.
Although with the new casting timers, it might not matter much. It'll still cast Poisona on that Aura: Poison, but it'll follow up with Cure VI shortly afterwards, right?

[esoR]

^slightly related, but referring to stona, puppet still does stona > cure? that is the only spell i feel should be prio'd over cure, since if you're waiting while being petrified, you're probably going to die regardless... actually, this brings up another question, since i'm not quite clear on previous explanations. are cures on a separate timer or a healing magic timer? (including cures/na's) it sounded like enhancing/elem/enfeebs were on their own timer for each category.

if cures are indeed on a separate timer than the other healing spells, that would certainly be interesting.


edit: re read OP, works as i thought.. wording confused me first time. disregard~

[Dfoley]

^slightly related, but referring to stona, puppet still does stona > cure? that is the only spell i feel should be prio'd over cure, since if you're waiting while being petrified, you're probably going to die regardless... actually, this brings up another question, since i'm not quite clear on previous explanations. are cures on a separate timer or a healing magic timer? (including cures/na's) it sounded like enhancing/elem/enfeebs were on their own timer for each category.

if cures are indeed on a separate timer than the other healing spells, that would certainly be interesting.


edit: re read OP, works as i thought.. wording confused me first time. disregard~

Well the issue with stona is that if you are 2-4 hits from dieing, it doesn't matter if you are stone/poison/diseased/slowed etc. It should always cast cure 5~6. Then you have 10-12 hits before you die, and ample time to cure the status ailments.

Currently it will stona -> wait 10 sec -> cure 6 (if you have less than 3 maneuvers). Which is more than enough time for a mob to kill you.

[Dohati]

if the mob hits hard enough, and you need utsusemi to be able to survive more than like 3 or 4 hits... i'd prefer stona. then, i could attempt to hold my own until cure was ready. less relevant, but you can't guard while petrified either.

[esoR]

thanks for the info. i'm usually /nin and save Role reversal for those situations, but everyone's different.

[Camate]

Puppetmaster adjustments cont.

Flame holder
We feel that the current stats and functionality aren’t reasonable when considering the space needed to equip this attachment. With this said, if we were to make so the power is shared with other attachments (for example, making it so it doesn’t consume a Fire Maneuver, as was suggested), we would have to increase the capacity cost to be higher than it is currently.

However, since I believe that attachment uses differ from person to person, instead of the above adjustment, we are looking in the direction of adding a different attachment that has similar stats to the Flame Holder so you will be able to choose the proper one to use based on the situation. (The addition of this attachment is planned for after the level cap increase to 99.)

Also, when there are changes made with Test Server updates, we also update the content posted in the “Testing In Progress” forum, but the development team and QA team have been testing and making adjustments up to the last minute, more than you can imagine.

As a result, there may be times that we cannot announce the specific changes right away and we appreciate your understanding. (Don’t worry, we aren’t trying to hide anything!)

[Dfoley]

Also of note, was the the next test server update should include the change in the healing priorities in regards to recovering hp, light maneuvers, and -na spells.

Previouslly it was 3 light in order to make cure > na. Previouslly they had mentioned it would be more than 1 (aka 2+ maneuvers).

I really think this should be reconsidered and be 1 + light maneuvers. I am not sure why camate didnt translate it as it was part of the previous post.



Flame holder
v1 Higher capacity cost - doesn't consume maneuvers
I dont think most people could justify using it at all if the capacity cost went up. Also would this be weaker than the current one?

v2 same capacity cost - consumes maneuvers
Personally if you have both as an option, v2 better be a larger affect per maneuver since you sacrifice more to use it.


Either option
Both are terrible in regards to fire maneuvers triggering the wrong WS.

Suggestion
With flame holder equiped (only) - Fire maneuver triggers the strongest available (highest level) ws only. No fire = normal trigger, so cannibal blade would still be dark on VE. The only issue is WS with fire as their normal trigger. And if you want to trigger an inferior WS I am all about making it harder (Fire + water maneuver), a combo that wont be used often in a situation where you are looking to use flame holder

[TimeMage]

Suggestion
With flame holder equiped (only) - Fire maneuver triggers the strongest available (highest level) ws only. No fire = normal trigger, so cannibal blade would still be dark on VE. The only issue is WS with fire as their normal trigger. And if you want to trigger an inferior WS I am all about making it harder (Fire + water maneuver), a combo that wont be used often in a situation where you are looking to use flame holder

This would be awesome, seconded.

Also, if Flame Holder + Inhibitor were up, the auto would only SC if it could use its highest damaging WS. Win/win if this happened.

[Alhanelem]

It doesn't really bother me that fire maneuvers are consumed by the flame holder, what bothers me is that you can't use it effectively without making the automaton use an undesireable WS. The power/attributes of the attachment itself are okay (other than it doesn't seem to affect Cannibal Blade if I'm not mistaken). It's only the mechanics.

[xbobx]

Dfoleys flameholder suggestion, me like. I firmly believe we need a way to force those weaponskills. I hate shooting off a bone crusher by accident.

[Theytak]

Puppetmaster adjustments cont.

Flame holder
We feel that the current stats and functionality aren’t reasonable when considering the space needed to equip this attachment. With this said, if we were to make so the power is shared with other attachments (for example, making it so it doesn’t consume a Fire Maneuver, as was suggested), we would have to increase the capacity cost to be higher than it is currently.

However, since I believe that attachment uses differ from person to person, instead of the above adjustment, we are looking in the direction of adding a different attachment that has similar stats to the Flame Holder so you will be able to choose the proper one to use based on the situation. (The addition of this attachment is planned for after the level cap increase to 99.)

Also, when there are changes made with Test Server updates, we also update the content posted in the “Testing In Progress” forum, but the development team and QA team have been testing and making adjustments up to the last minute, more than you can imagine.

As a result, there may be times that we cannot announce the specific changes right away and we appreciate your understanding. (Don’t worry, we aren’t trying to hide anything!)

Again, I'm going to propose that instead of adjusting flame holder in any way, you adjust how the automaton performs weapon skills.

As it stands, the automaton will perform weapon skills in an INCREDIBLY unintelligent manner, both with and without the inhibitor (the inhibitor changes how it does weapon skills, but it changes it to an equally unintelligent and undesirable method). Without the inhibitor, the automaton will randomly WS between 100 and 300 TP, with the likely hood of WS increasing with how much TP it has (I have only ever once had my puppet hold TP to 300%, but wow was I annoyed), typically this results in the puppet wasting 30~70 TP every WS, occasionally more when it decides to hold past 200%.

Additionally, because we have to use maneuvers to force specific WS, we're limited on our ability to use maneuvers for what they're intended for, enhancing our attachments. A perfect example of this is Valoredge and Cannibal Blade. I've played pup since the week of the ToAU release, and not once have I ever equipped valoredge with a dark attachment, since it has no mp and the only non-mp related dark attachment, smokescreen, is counter productive to valoredge's survival when using cannibal blade (lower acc means slower TP gain, meaning fewer cannibal blades to heal itself). Despite this, I pretty much constantly need a dark maneuver on my puppet if it's survivability is at all in question.

I can understand using maneuvers to determine spellcasting, but when bst, smn, and now even drg have the ability to choose their pet's ws (or at least WHEN they ws, in the case of charmed pets), the fact that pup is still using this bass-ackwards method of WSing is really aggravating x.x

I know it wouldn't be something quick to implement, but is giving us our own way to at least force a specific ws in the manner drg got with smiting breath, or ready (on a shorter recast, given how pup ws compare to jug pet ws) can't be so unreasonable/undoable that it won't ever happen.

[Kysaiana]

I almost never equip flame holder for all the reasons everyone else has stated. The miniscule gains you get from using it don't outweigh the pain in the butt it is to get it to actually work with the WS you want.
If they aren't going to allow us to pick the auto's WS from a menu, I wish they'd at least change what maneuver prioritizes what WS. If you want say, Valoredge to get HP back you would want to use regen and Cannibal Blade. But since light maneuvers prioritize Bone Crusher, you have to use two dark maneuvers to get it to use Cannibal Blade, which as Theytak said, have zero use on Valoredge.

I'm thankful for all the AI tweaks that are going to implemented soon, but it still feels like this job should be call "Puppet Suggester" rather than "Puppetmaster"

[Theytak]

I often find myself wondering who is the master, and who is the puppet

[Treyd]

I may be alone on this, but to me flame holder seems like it would be one of the last attachments I'd worry about adjusting. I usually am able to slip it in on Valoredge and Sharpshot(due to only needing one fire slot) for a small WS boost and I like it that way. Auto WS are already decently strong and somehow I can't imagine them getting too much stronger without "adjusting" something to compensate. Not to mention the time that you are building triple fire you don't have as much haste, double attack, etc on the puppet.

Just doesn't feel like most of the time it would be worth the 20 extra seconds to build fire. Now if maneuver recast was shorter that would be a different story. That's what I'd rather push for.

Off topic slightly: I keep trying to get my puppet to cast buffs and have split timers on the non-test server and it is depressing me. This update needs to be implemented soon. Please? :(

[Dfoley]

Id be fine with an ability on a 10 minute timer that 'sets' your ws.

Aka:
Tactical Prowess
10 minute duration 10 minute reuse
Pick the ws from a menu and that is the only ws it will use for the next 10 minutes!

Then you no longer have to worry about ANY maneuvers for ws and can do maneuvers based on the desired affect on the pet, and not what ws might accidently fire.

Just a crackpot suggestion, I have 1000s more... but everyone is sick of it as is any ways.

[xbobx]

I just want /pet "Armor Shatterer" <t> seems even simpler. I know it is possible since you can do those macros with bst jug TP moves. I hate sitting there saying, would you go poppo, go dammit, then it waits till mob is 2 percent and does a 3k ws. why thanks poppo you idiot. Only other option is to pull the puppet off and lose dmg also.

[Dohati]

if they did make it where you could choose your automaton's WS, i would only be happy with that if the automaton would still WS the way it does now unless you hit the desired WS from a list first. sometimes, i'm too busy with other stuff to tell my puppet exactly what to do at the same time. maybe make it where to automaton will use a WS on it's own after it's TP is above 150 so you have ample time to select one from the list, but if you don't feel like spamming <pettp> or are just too busy to have to manually select WSs, you won't have to wait too long for your puppet to WS. honestly though, if they change automaton WS selection whatsoever, I would just want to be able to decide what maneuver triggers what WS, or select the priorities for which WS comes first with no maneuver up, or if theres more than 2 or 3 different WS-trigger-maneuvers up.

[Theytak]

I mean, I can kind of understand why we don't have access to menu WS, given that our puppets possess the ability to WS spam on their own (as was the case before the burt nerf) given enough regain/haste/store TP, and given how powerful some of the WS are (Armor Shatterer, Armor Piercer, String Shredder, and Cannibal Blade (first three for damage, CB due to its no miss no hate moderate damage nature). If we suddenly found ourselves only able to let our puppets WS every 60 seconds like bsts and smns (I know it's less with gear/merits, but still), our damage would take a pretty massive hit.

That said, maneuver-forced ws is just way to wonky and hindering of a system to be useful.

[Xianra]

I'm sure it has been mentioned in this thread already, but please (please please!):

Allow me to be able to deploy at a greater range. It's silly that I have to run up and then back to get my Auto to cast at max range. It puts me and my auto in needless danger, not to mention that it is cumbersome.

Don't cancel my buffs and cures if the enemy dies mid-cast. If they are cancelled, the timer should be available for immediate recast since the spell was never used to begin with.

As mentioned above, the Flame Holder's potency is already limited by the auto's WS selection being tied to active maneuvers. Thus, unless we were given more direct control over the WS of choice, it is not overpowered if you reduce the elemental capacity needed to equip.

Thanks for your consideration!

[esoR]

the issue with canceling spells is the puppet is deployed on a temporary target, and not on a static target. it's engage target is canceled so it goes directly into passive mode. if we had an ability to deploy on players, this issue would no longer exist, atleast for healing puppets. it would probably apply for nuking though.

[Xianra]

I also want to add my 2 cents to the light maneuver / cure priority issue. Forcing us to use 2 light maneuvers just for decent automaton AI really limits the use of other attachments, since our hands are tied and we can no longer use a variety of maneuvers to maintain the automaton. All this does is just add to our frustration when we die because a maneuver dropped a second too soon and the automaton's AI went flying back to the dark ages.

[Kaizersan]

Yea at the most it should be 1 Light Maneuver to put cure on the top of the list.

[Dfoley]

Ask and ye shall receive... devs commented in jp today that it was changed to 1 light maneuver with damage gauge equipped.

DEA
light maneuver
cure 5
win


DEA
no maneuver
protect/shell/haste


Didn't get to test enfeeble priorities, but cure does take place over enhancing now with 1 light maneuver.


Also tested drum magazine with timers today:

20 sec no attachment
17/14/11/5 with attachment, pure unadulterated win.

[Camate]

During last week’s test server update, we implemented an adjustment to automatons so that curing is prioritized when you have one light maneuver.

Please check it out on the test server and let us know your feedback!

[xbobx]

We love it, no other feedback needed. Now make it live please... Now... right now.... please....

[Darkvalkyr]

Thank you SE. ^_^

[Zhronne]

Pretty satisfied, despite the Scanner needed to avoid the Silence on mobs with mp but not casting spells and similar situations, and also despite the fact some attachments could have used a 1 elemental unit reduction, but all in all really awesome update.

Now please make so the 8 Ashu Talif attachments can be obtained through other means, or at least ease up the pre-requisites to access the BC and to obtain chests!

[Xianra]

Wow, this really made my day! Thank you so much for the adjustment!

[Theytak]

We love it, no other feedback needed. Now make it live please... Now... right now.... please....
This. Dear god this.


Pretty satisfied, despite the Scanner needed to avoid the Silence on mobs with mp but not casting spells and similar situations, and also despite the fact some attachments could have used a 1 elemental unit reduction, but all in all really awesome update.

Now please make so the 8 Ashu Talif attachments can be obtained through other means, or at least ease up the pre-requisites to access the BC and to obtain chests!

I agree, so long as they aren't added to Voidwatch, or Ob. Ob's already got plenty of crap, and the voidwatch drop system is absolute garbage, and will result in the people who actually get the attachments probably just dropping them because their pup is level 0.

[Spiritreaver]

During last week’s test server update, we implemented an adjustment to automatons so that curing is prioritized when you have one light maneuver.

Please check it out on the test server and let us know your feedback!

Made my day!

[xiozen]

Thank you!!! THANK YOU!!!! THANK YOU!!! SE Devs!! My hard earned money... <<You can have this.>>

[brayen]

very nice, seems at least that feedback was heard.

Has someone tested this function? they did their part now lets test the work they put in!

[Dfoley]

very nice, seems at least that feedback was heard.

Has someone tested this function? they did their part now lets test the work they put in!


Ask and ye shall receive... devs commented in jp today that it was changed to 1 light maneuver with damage gauge equipped.

DEA
light maneuver
cure 5
win


DEA
no maneuver
protect/shell/haste


Didn't get to test enfeeble priorities, but cure does take place over enhancing now with 1 light maneuver.

my post right before calmates

[Kaisha]

Now please make so the 8 Ashu Talif attachments can be obtained through other means, or at least ease up the pre-requisites to access the BC and to obtain chests!
A million times this.

[brayen]

my post right before calmates

woops sorry usually i jump to dev posts too many threads to track em all ; ;

[Kysaiana]

I agree, so long as they aren't added to Voidwatch, or Ob. Ob's already got plenty of crap, and the voidwatch drop system is absolute garbage, and will result in the people who actually get the attachments probably just dropping them because their pup is level 0.

Considering most of the Ashu Talif attachments go for 1-2 mil on my server, I doubt anyone would drop them if they got it from VW and didn't have pup leveled.

If they do bother adding those drops to some other system it would probably be gold boxes in dungeons, where it will probably be in a chest you failed to open thanks to getting the same hint 3 times reiterated. But who knows since you can't see what's in it till it's open!

Or maybe they'll add them to the ENM60. Realistically though, they probably won't change where they drop at all.

[Psion]

Awesome on the damage gauge adjustment! Thanks a ton Camate!

Also, can someone check non scanner/scanner AI on mobs that are resistant to your autos best nukes? For instance, if your auto's best is blizzard V, try casting on ghosts and seeing if with or without scanner, they use fire instead of ice. I know even with it a while back Oniwaka would only pay attention to elemental resistance, not outright damage reduction to an element or absorption of an element. This meant he would just blast ghosts, which take half damage from ice spells, with blizzard, and would happily cast fire on custards in nyzul isle that ate fire. >_<

That's one of the other major bugs I can think of that might not have been addressed, though I can't test myself on the test server to be sure. Obviously monsters such as elementals, which have a high resistance to their own element, aren't a problem, just monsters with direct damage reduction to an element, such as ghosts, and those that absorb certain elements.

[Kaizersan]

About damned time this should have been done how many years ago?

[Theytak]

Awesome on the damage gauge adjustment! Thanks a ton Camate!

Also, can someone check non scanner/scanner AI on mobs that are resistant to your autos best nukes? For instance, if your auto's best is blizzard V, try casting on ghosts and seeing if with or without scanner, they use fire instead of ice. I know even with it a while back Oniwaka would only pay attention to elemental resistance, not outright damage reduction to an element or absorption of an element. This meant he would just blast ghosts, which take half damage from ice spells, with blizzard, and would happily cast fire on custards in nyzul isle that ate fire. >_<

That's one of the other major bugs I can think of that might not have been addressed, though I can't test myself on the test server to be sure. Obviously monsters such as elementals, which have a high resistance to their own element, aren't a problem, just monsters with direct damage reduction to an element, such as ghosts, and those that absorb certain elements.

Spiritreaver has scanner built in, always has (hence why the fact that they use the scanner to fix shit is such #%@^ing annoying bullshit), and equipping the scanner on top of that has always caused it to be buggy. That said though, the fact that the automatons can't tell the difference between "high resist rate" and "nukes will heal" is incredibly annoying.

I will check out the damage reduction thing to see if they've fixed it next time I log on the test server, unless someone beats me to it.



About damned time this should have been done how many years ago?
Five years, Seven Months, tomorrow. (The ToAU Update was 4/17/06)

[xbobx]

lol at the known bugs now. So one light maneuver yay. two or more, cure priority goes last.

[Spiritreaver]

.........Five years, Seven Months, tomorrow. (The ToAU Update was 4/17/06)

Damn...it has been that long hasn't it?

[Darkvalkyr]

Spiritreaver has scanner built in, always has (hence why the fact that they use the scanner to fix shit is such #%@^ing annoying bullshit), and equipping the scanner on top of that has always caused it to be buggy. That said though, the fact that the automatons can't tell the difference between "high resist rate" and "nukes will heal" is incredibly annoying.

Actually on the NM in flux 7 of WoE my spiritreaver casts drain/aspir despite being resisted for like every so he goes on a Drain/Aspir fest until he dies with DEA, I had to equip a scanner and then he started doing Thunder V even with DEA.

[Theytak]

Actually on the NM in flux 7 of WoE my spiritreaver casts drain/aspir despite being resisted for like every so he goes on a Drain/Aspir fest until he dies with DEA, I had to equip a scanner and then he started doing Thunder V even with DEA.
I've never experienced this issue, though I don't do WoE. Also, that's probably due to DEA dropping your pet in a low HP and the drain/aspir triggers forcing priority over everything, including what little shred of common sense exists within our pet's AI. But drain and aspir being triggered by the pet having < 75% HP/MP is totally cool, right guys? We all absolutely love that.


Camate et al.: read this comment as follows:

We absolutely hate the ridiculously high % proc for aspir and drain and have been begging you to lower it for ages. It would be wonderful to lower them down to 50% each, but honestly, I could even live with aspir still being 75% if you would be willing to lower aspir to 25%. There isn't a blm alive who will spam aspir and aspir II every two nukes, so why should our blm puppet do it? Especially given how little issue we have with mp in the first place. They're handy spells because I've gotten yellow procs with them before (they're the only spells our puppets can reliably use to proc in abyssea, despite having a good deal of procing spells), but they're really, really unnecessary at their current settings. If our puppet falls below the mp required for a T5 nuke, then I want it to cast aspir (unless I'm trying to force a nuke of a lower tier, but that's so fucking difficult I've long since given up attempting it), not after the first two nukes, and then every other nuke. It makes it so that deactivate nuking is the only viable nuking option on anything the puppet can aspir, and on fights that LOVE to spam AoEs, constantly having to deus -> repair or deus -> role reversal or deus -> healing salve/shepherd's drink/dawn mulsum (depending on where I am) gets really old and really holds back my ability to do the damage I was brought for.

[Dfoley]

(they're the only spells our puppets can reliably use to proc in abyssea, despite having a good deal of procing spells), but they're really, really unnecessary at their current settings. .

Until someone else gets aspir to be a proc and then 30 seconds latter your auto casts it as well and you get double yellow :-(

[Theytak]

Until someone else gets aspir to be a proc and then 30 seconds latter your auto casts it as well and you get double yellow :-(

Honestly, if I see aspir proc I just deactivate right there and switch to stormwaker. Thunder/Blizzard IV are better than double yellow. When you can get your puppet to cast them over enfeebles. :mad:

[Dfoley]

Am i the only one who wants this to go live as is? Im fine with the AI not prioritizing cure with 2 light maneuvers as long as its a known bug and being worked on.

The plethora of AWESOMENESS more than makes up for it.

Please :-)

[Lordscyon]

no more ~lol~ pup ^^
They do some good damage now :)

[Theytak]

no more ~lol~ pup ^^
They do some good damage now :)

now? We've done good damage for years now, people just refuse to accept us because we're way to fabulous

[Camate]

In regards to Analyzer, we are planning to make the below changes based on the content being checked on the Test Server:

• Change the effect depending on the maneuver
Current: The number of active maneuvers translates to an increase in damage reduction
↓
Post-change: The number of active maneuvers will increase the number of special attacks that can be mitigated

• Change to a static value for damage reduction
Adjustments based on the test server stats (around 30-50%)

With these changes, we need to set aside a good amount of time to develop and test, as well as ensure a solid period to collect feedback, so this won’t be implemented during the next version update. We’ll be sure to let you know when it will be available for testing.

[xbobx]

so when is the next update, and I assume this won't delay the whole pupdate, just that one attachment?

[Dfoley]

hmm currently that would make analyze way more useful even at the low end of 30%. At 50% it would make it phenomenally useful.

and i ahve to agree, when is the next update? because i thought the test server was supposed to make more frequent smaller patches, and as is it seems like the same delay as it would have been without it

[Dawezy]

Camate,

Any chance the Dev team could lock the Tier IV Elemental spells back up for Stormwaker head? spamming Thunder IV / Blizzard IV for mediocre damage cripples its MP. Was doing my usual set of Grounds of Valor (moved to Labryinth of Onzozo from Eldieme Necropolis.) when I discovered how quickly he went through it.. very frustrating.

EDIT: Thought I should clarify, I noticed just now that this topic is under the Test-server forum.. I'm not on the test-server I'm on Shiva if that makes any diff.

[Theytak]

Camate,

Any chance the Dev team could lock the Tier IV Elemental spells back up for Stormwaker head? spamming Thunder IV / Blizzard IV for mediocre damage cripples its MP. Was doing my usual set of Grounds of Valor (moved to Labryinth of Onzozo from Eldieme Necropolis.) when I discovered how quickly he went through it.. very frustrating.

or better yet, lower the elemental magic casting priority outside of low target HP to:
won't cast: 50%~100%
casts sparingly: 25%~50%
Prioritizes: 1~25%

or give us an attachment or something that locks it (don't make it a freaking ice/dark attachment though, for the love of god)

[xbobx]

So for such a long time we complained that Stormwaker could only cast tier 3 spells, now we are complaining they cast teir 4 spells?

[Dfoley]

Gonna have to disagree with you guys on this. Learn to deactivate - activate - deploy. With auto-repair kit 2 being as powerful as repair oils now there is no reason not to always have full hp pets.

I personally like the priorities as is, because frankly if you want magic dd you are using blm, if you want heals you are using whm. If you are using Rdm you are most likely pup/dnc to help with heals which allows your pet to make up some of the lost dmg. At least that is the only time I would use rdm.

1) I dont want the elementals locked
2) I dont want the priority levels changed

I am okay with adding an attachment that lowers the nuke priority (probably water to force enfeebles or light to force heals)

It just seems 2 step backwards to ask them to take away nukes because people cant figure out how to DAD

[Theytak]

So for such a long time we complained that Stormwaker could only cast tier 3 spells, now we are complaining they cast teir 4 spells?

I never wanted stormwaker to have tier IVs in the first place.


Gonna have to disagree with you guys on this. Learn to deactivate - activate - deploy. With auto-repair kit 2 being as powerful as repair oils now there is no reason not to always have full hp pets.

I personally like the priorities as is, because frankly if you want magic dd you are using blm, if you want heals you are using whm. If you are using Rdm you are most likely pup/dnc to help with heals which allows your pet to make up some of the lost dmg. At least that is the only time I would use rdm.

1) I dont want the elementals locked
2) I dont want the priority levels changed

I am okay with adding an attachment that lowers the nuke priority (probably water to force enfeebles or light to force heals)

It just seems 2 step backwards to ask them to take away nukes because people cant figure out how to DAD

That's fine and dandy for you, but the problem lies less in the aspect of using SW when you're dicking around pup/dnc, and more when you want to use the newly available tactic of phalanx/stoneskin for killing NMs. Having to deploy/retrieve for every spell to ensure it's only the ones you want is obnoxious, and you can't just leave SW deployed because 15 seconds into the fight LAWLZTHUNDERFOWARHURPDURPHURP->pulls hate->dies-> DEA-> LAWLZTHUNDERFOWARDURPHURPDURP -> you die because your puppet is to busy blowing all its mp on horrible nukes it doesn't have the attachments for. Kind of completely kills how useful SW can potentially be now.

[Dfoley]

So correct me if I am wrong. you are using rdm for weak phalnax/stone skin over cure 5/6 and complaining about dieing?

Jinte, help me out, cause that makes no sense. With the global recast being 10 sec, and enhancing magic being a 15 sec recast. It is not gonna keep stoneskin on you unless you are ninja and then its basically adding 1 more shadow. Phalanx maybe able to keep up but again -30 dmg per hit doesn't really compare to an extra 400-800 hp healed.

I just dont see the advantage of stoneskin/phalanx over cure5/6 on nm. I personally just use the rdm for soloing even con or lower mobs. Then it can nuke , buff, enfeeble, and heal and still be useful.

Also, why is thunder 4 stealing agro from you ><

[Theytak]

So correct me if I am wrong. you are using rdm for weak phalnax/stone skin over cure 5/6 and complaining about dieing?

Jinte, help me out, cause that makes no sense. With the global recast being 10 sec, and enhancing magic being a 15 sec recast. It is not gonna keep stoneskin on you unless you are ninja and then its basically adding 1 more shadow. Phalanx maybe able to keep up but again -30 dmg per hit doesn't really compare to an extra 400-800 hp healed.

I just dont see the advantage of stoneskin/phalanx over cure5/6 on nm. I personally just use the rdm for soloing even con or lower mobs. Then it can nuke , buff, enfeeble, and heal and still be useful.

does the puppet's phalanx/stoneskin have a lower cap than it does for players and I just didn't notice? I was meaning for situations where you're /nin, since typically even in abyssea I -rarely- need cure VI, and I only Cure V if I get lazy or the mob gets in a lucky string double-triple crits right after wiping my shadows. I was kind of thinking long-term, assuming they'll add new, tougher NMs that aren't High Tier VW hard (read: shit that I can solo and find challenging, but not shit that'll roflstomp me six ways from sunday) outside of abyssea now that abyssea's done, and that w/o MM, I'd rather use SW and ride stoneskin/cure IV for better MP management, since 85% of the time I die while trying to solo tougher NMs, it's during the 5~10 seconds I'm deactivating for MP. The other 15% is split between 10% due to lag and 5% due to being a dumbass (min value, can't drop below 5%).


Also, why is thunder 4 stealing agro from you ><

Start of the fight, typically. It's pretty hard to keep hate off a T4 nuke with only 1-2 attack rounds of hate.